FCC Noncommital on Code Changes [Archive] - Page 4

AC0GT

03-09-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 08 2006,11:06)]Quote[/b] (KC0LXK @ Mar. 07 2006,21:07)]
That's tellin' him Charlie! He asks a simple question and you call him a coward. Brilliant way to make your point.

Thing is that you make a very unbelievable claim. In all the city of New Orleans, for three days, no one was able to make a single phone or digital transmission on HF? Nobody had truck with a IC-706 and a 10 meter whip? In all of New Orleans? For three whole days? If the truck was water logged then not only would the person be unable to do voice they would not likely be able to do CW either.

Perhaps what you say is true, but that doesn't make it any less unbelievable. No one seems to be running to defend your claim either. It's very likely you are not a liar. It's also very likely that you are simply mistaken.
LOL! Seems like if someone calls you a liar, they have already defined the permissible level to which the conversation may go. Or didn't you notice? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

But it is fun watching you guys apply "truck with a whip" and "just run the generator" mentality. Seems simple to you, right? What could they all have been thinking! Listening to you guys is like watching Jessica Simpson on Jeopardy.

P.S. Edited for brevity.
You seem to be missing my point completely. You seem to be spinning a tall tale claiming that only CW was used on HF in the after math of Katrina. I, and many others, find that hard to believe.

These people had power, radios, antennas. They must have since you say they were operating CW. What many find hard to believe is that none of these people seemed to have a working microphone.

It's also the duration that sounds suspect. For three days these people were calling for assistance on HF and no one came to get them? Since they were on the radio it should have been trivial to find them.

You mock us as if we are too stupid to get the joke you told. The problem is that only thing you told us was the punchline. What prevented these people from using other modes of communication? Can you even prove what you say is true?

You keep telling us we have no understanding of how things were then and there. Then inform us! But we don't have to hear how is was from you. We can all read and other sources make no mention of CW radio operation. Why does your observation conflict? Perhaps you were too busy installing generators to notice the activity on HF at the time.

ky5u

03-09-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote[/b] ]LXK: You mock us as if we are too stupid to get the joke you told. The problem is that only thing you told us was the punchline. What prevented these people from using other modes of communication? Can you even prove what you say is true?

You keep telling us we have no understanding of how things were then and there. Then inform us! But we don't have to hear how is was from you. We can all read and other sources make no mention of CW radio operation. Why does your observation conflict? Perhaps you were too busy installing generators to notice the activity on HF at the time.

You want a hint? How many Amateurs were in New Orleans for those days with a portable HF rig on a Helicopter or at a base camp for 3-4 hours every evening? How many flew from New Orleans south as far as Venice, La. while listening? I told you a simple truth. Just because your brain is vapor locked on this subject doesn't mean it is untrue nor does it require me to humor you. You don't want to believe me? Knock your lights out. But your perception does not alter the truth.

Unless you're prepared to dispute what I said with real Amateurs who were in New Orleans for the same time period then I'd suggest you cease insinuating that I am not being truthful.

n0klu

03-09-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote[/b] (kc8upg @ Mar. 09 2006,17:49)]while i agree that they are technically "licensed", it took 35 easy questions to do it. Doesnt require too much to be "licensed" as a NCT. I admit the 5WPM code requirement wasnt a real pain in the side either, but i still did it, and so should anyone else who wants to get on HF.
I also agree that techs should NOT have HF. If they want to gain HF privileges they should upgrade to General or Extra. Code has nothing to do with electronics and radio propagation or principles. I do wish they would beef up the testing pools or do away with the published answers.
I am glad you decided to learn code, but hopefully for the “fun” of the mode and to use the mode. Is your station also PSK31/Packet/RTTY/SSTV/GPRS capable as well? Code is one of the modes of operation. As is AM/FM/SSB voice and the aforementioned digital modes. To many in the ARS the “requirement” for code is like requiring each station to have a TNC to upgrade. Not everyone is into using packet or SSTV or other digital modes. Code should not be any more required than any other particular mode. Knowledge of code does not “advance” the ARS, knowledge of Electronics/radio principles/propagation does.

k9ekg

03-09-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 09 2006,07:20)]And who started this chain down the argument path?

Quote[/b] ]kc2omo(Technician): Help me out here, where it says "more efficient use of the radio spectrum", does that infer that they will be cutting back the section of each band for CW or elimenating it altogether? I say keep the CW requirement!

kc2idm(Technician): Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. dont give people privliges they havent earned.

n3jbh(Technician): your a great guy to talk about privledges you didnt earn. heck your a tech and you tooK how many questions to get there? 35 you say . heck when i became a teck there was 85 questions to get there. sounds to me like you didnt earn as much as you say. get the hell over it ok.

Yep. The argument was started by Technicians. Personally I think idm and omo were right on the money, but the truth is that this discussion got off track on page 1 and Generals and Extras aren't to blame. LOL!! I posted a picture on page 2 making fun of NCT handouts.

And who did the first personal attack? Why the guy who posted a picture entitled "ag4yo is an ass"...Call: K9EKG Class: Technician .

ROFLMAO!
No, Charlie...your posted Barn picture was the first attack.
And yes, every NCT who reads that can take it personally. As the poster, you bear the brunt of the reprisal. I thought it was quite fitting....

ky5u

03-09-2006, 11:18 PM

LOL!!! "But...but...but....but...I didn't start it!!". You sound like an outboard motor un a tub of Jello... "But...but...but..."

You're a funny bunny.

n3jbh

03-10-2006, 12:18 AM

shoot i aint complaining at all. i simply wanted to keep the ball rolling is all.

i thought hey if fred wants to post this stuff knowing what kinda firestorm it makes. well i do my best to keep it going. i only wanted help good ole fred out. so please every one dont let him down. jeff n3jbh http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

AC0GT

03-10-2006, 12:51 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 09 2006,13:12)]Quote[/b] ]LXK: You mock us as if we are too stupid to get the joke you told. The problem is that only thing you told us was the punchline. What prevented these people from using other modes of communication? Can you even prove what you say is true?

You keep telling us we have no understanding of how things were then and there. Then inform us! But we don't have to hear how is was from you. We can all read and other sources make no mention of CW radio operation. Why does your observation conflict? Perhaps you were too busy installing generators to notice the activity on HF at the time.

You want a hint? How many Amateurs were in New Orleans for those days with a portable HF rig on a Helicopter or at a base camp for 3-4 hours every evening? How many flew from New Orleans south as far as Venice, La. while listening? I told you a simple truth. Just because your brain is vapor locked on this subject doesn't mean it is untrue nor does it require me to humor you. You don't want to believe me? Knock your lights out. But your perception does not alter the truth.

Unless you're prepared to dispute what I said with real Amateurs who were in New Orleans for the same time period then I'd suggest you cease insinuating that I am not being truthful.
I'm not saying you are lying. I'm saying you are mistaken unless you can show otherwise. There is no way you could have been listening to all the Amateur HF frequencies for 72 hours. It seems very improbable with all those people down there talking on the radio that no one in that long of a time was able to say a single word on SSB.

It is also quite improbable that if large portions of New Orleans were cut off from all communications except CW over Amateur HF that no one else seemed to notice or mention it.

I am prepared to dispute what you claim but you are not offering any information to do so. That in itself is suspect. What dates did you make this observation? You don't seem to offer even the time frame for your observation.

You're right, you don't have to humor me on this topic any longer. Just as I am not required to take your word as law.

ky5u

03-10-2006, 02:56 AM

Quote[/b] ]LXK: It seems very improbable with all those people down there talking on the radio that no one in that long of a time was able to say a single word on SSB.

Do you realize that to a person who was in the city during the Katrina aftermath, that statement shows exactly how clueless you really are. And you're sitting there looking at the SSB part of the statement, aren't you?

Quote[/b] ]LXK: I am prepared to dispute what you claim but you are not offering any information to do so.

ROFL!! Dispute my claim based on what? Your divine knowledge of the subject? The sentence above reveals how your reality is so self centric. I see your mostly ignored self stroking messages on QRZ and it's really sad. The more you're ignored, the longer they get. "PLEASE! Somebody notice me!!!". Lately you've hit on your magic formula where you add a veiled insult or inuendo to get attention. Then...click....the spotlight is on you!

Quote[/b] ]LXK: You're right, you don't have to humor me on this topic any longer. Just as I am not required to take your word as law.

Nor am I required to waste any more time watching you stroke your brain stem.

K4JF

03-10-2006, 04:20 AM

Quote[/b] (wb1wmb @ Mar. 09 2006,05:04)]Instead of voicing our frustrations with the FCC for not making a final ruling we prayed upon each other over something as silly as code or no-code. Give me a break!!

Still, it's been fun.

73
Wayne
wb1wmb
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I hope y'all prayed over me. I need all the prayers I can get (being human, you know)!

N7YA

03-10-2006, 05:06 AM

Agreed, i have nothing more to add to this...i just want to help a fellow ham make a little more cash.

click, click, cha-ching!

PE1RDW

03-10-2006, 08:34 AM

I'm very amused by charlie's claims that only CW was used, the winlink folk that where out there claimed that most trafic was passed using winlink2000, I guess winlink2000 now has a CW option otherwise these claims would conflict. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

kd4mxe

03-10-2006, 01:14 PM

ky5u

03-10-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 10 2006,01:34)]I'm very amused by charlie's claims that only CW was used, the winlink folk that where out there claimed that most trafic was passed using winlink2000, I guess winlink2000 now has a CW option otherwise these claims would conflict. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
So you're now the expert on Katrina ECOMM, tell me WHERE WinLink was used as you describe and when? Surely as an expert you know there were at least 3-4 different geographical areas of autonomous emergency response separated by at least 50 miles. And being the expert that you are on the area, you'll be able to describe the different stages of recovery and over which days post Katrina they occurred. Right?

So which ones used WinLink and when? Or are you just sitting 8k miles away and running your face? ROFL! I thought so....

PE1RDW

03-10-2006, 01:54 PM

Glad to help out Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

PE1RDW

03-10-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 10 2006,06:52)]Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 10 2006,01:34)]I'm very amused by charlie's claims that only CW was used, the winlink folk that where out there claimed that most trafic was passed using winlink2000, I guess winlink2000 now has a CW option otherwise these claims would conflict. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
So you're now the expert on Katrina ECOMM, tell me WHERE WinLink was used as you describe and when? Surely as an expert you know there were at least 3-4 different geographical areas of autonomous emergency response separated by at least 50 miles. #And being the expert that you are on the area, you'll be able to describe the different stages of recovery and over which days post Katrina they occurred. #Right?

So which ones used WinLink and when? #Or are you just sitting 8k miles away and running your face? #ROFL! #I thought so....
guess the arrl is not a good source
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/02/17/2/

"Emergency communications were conducted not only by voice, but also by high-speed data transmissions using state-of-the art digital communications software known as Winlink."

or how about this from someone who was there:

Quote[/b] ]Howdy,

I was called upon to help the Salvation Army in the last week (9/11-9/15) with communications in Mississippi. What me and the team I was with were expecting was to find a number of families with no communications to the outside world and in need to the ability to send and receive health & welfare traffic. What we found, instead, was that even though cellular coverage was very spotty in some areas, most everyone had already had a chance to contact someone and let them know that they were OK. I was hoping to be able to demonstrate the efficiency and speed of WL2K, but we really needed to be in earlier before the communications were restored.

Having said this, I used WL2K over HF to keep the Salvation Army headquarters and our local ARES management team in Collin County Texas informed of our progress, record our daily activities and communicate with the Salvation Army team that had email in the field. The Salvation Army Disaster Services Director form LA-MS-AL was so impressed with Winlink that he asked me to stop back by Jackson, MS headquarters to demo the technology in person and help him figure out what he needs to buy to get started on Winlink (he is also a ham).

When I was in the field, we sent back to the SA headquarters the exact location (street address and GPS coordinates) of people that needed services over Winlink. As we drove around we just added locations and status to the email and then sent it after an hour or so. This allowed us to send a message that was not going to be distorted or miscommunicated with a high degree of accuracy right where it needed to go. I also sent a daily status report that covered any activities not previously discussed and was in a form easy to forward to others to let anyone that needed to know how things were going along the coast.

If we had been able to go into the affected area sooner, I believe we could have done much more. We could have followed behind an entry team that hacked their way down the roads and stopped at each house that became passable and asked to relay any H&W traffic as well as provide traffic to the proper authorities related to medical needs, status of electricity, etc.

For the record, I would like to thank each of the WL2K stations that I used during my trip: WB5KSD, WU3V, N0IA, K4CJX, K6IXA, N5TW & W9MR. I would also especially like to thank Steve, K4CJX, for all the help getting started and for helping while I was on the road.

73,

Steve, N5AC

Go troll someone else Charlie, I can backup my claims, can you?

kd4mxe

03-10-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 10 2006,06:54)]Glad to help out Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
pe1rdw- sir I am glad you are willing to Help out as you see over here there are some that could use some Help,73 good luck Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

n9zxk

03-10-2006, 02:41 PM

Looks like this has lost it steam.... GOOD

N3TTN

03-10-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote[/b] ]And who did the first personal attack? Why the guy who posted a picture entitled "ag4yo is an ass"...Call: K9EKG Class: Technician .

Wellll....not exactly. That post simply had a picture of a donkey or mule type animal with a caption that read "AG4YO's QSL card", nowhere was there anything specifically calling you an ass, that part was left up to the imagination of the individual viewer. Anyway, the post is there for anyone who wants to see for themselves. Charlie, you have a nasty habit of twisting peoples comments to suit your agenda, and whether you realize it or not it diminishes your credibility, such as it is.

ky5u

03-10-2006, 05:24 PM

RDW,

From the report you referenced in the ARRL news article:

Quote[/b] ]From "A Failure of Initiative": #Additionally, the NCS coordinated the frequencies used by the nearly 1,000 Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES) volunteers across the nation who served in the Katrina stricken area providing communications for government agencies, the Red Cross and the Salvation Army. Emergency communications were conducted not only by voice, but also by high-speed data transmissions using state-of-the art digital communications software known as WinLink. In Mississippi FEMA dispatched Amateur Radio operators to hospitals, evacuation centers, and county EOCs to send emergency messaging 24 hours per day. According to Bay St. Louis Mayor Edward A. “Eddie” Favre, amateur radio operators were especially helpful in maintaining situational awareness and relaying Red Cross messages to and from the Hancock County EOC.88 At airports in Texas and Louisiana, radio amateurs tracked evacuees and notified families of their whereabouts. The Red Cross deployed amateur radio volunteers at its 250 shelter and feeding stations, principally in Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida.

Notice the only mention of Louisiana is at Airports. #There was only one airport in the area I referred to in my CW statement and that is Armstrong in New Orleans. #Armstrong was used as a shelter, hospital and morgue beginning around the 2nd of September. #Refugees were evacuates from Armstrong starting about that time by "Con-Air" of the Justice Department. In a published letter, ARRL Coordiantor Al Oubre talks about recovery efforts on the ARRL Website. #There is not one single mention of WinLink nor is there one mention of Armstrong Airport (even though the letter is dated September 9). #The one mention of New Orleans talks about staffing up for the recovery "next week". #Here is the link:

http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/05/0909/

Notice the only reference to activity in Louisiana prior to 9/9/05 was in the "Florida Parishes" which are all north of Lake Pontchatrain. #In fact, the effort was focused around Washington Parish which is over 50 miles from New Orleans. #

So you cannot match the time or place to my statement about CW where WinLink was used. You could have read the material you linked in your message and figured this out by yourself had you not been in such a hurry to prove how smart you are. So, get a map and look up the areas referred to in the articles for WinLink and in my comments. Then come back and apologize. #Are you ethical enough to admit when you make a mistake?

n0klu

03-10-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 10 2006,08:34)]I'm very amused by charlie's claims that only CW was used, the winlink folk that where out there claimed that most trafic was passed using winlink2000, I guess winlink2000 now has a CW option otherwise these claims would conflict. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Didn't you know that " ALL" communications that came out of the Katrina situation passed through Charlie? That's how he "KNOWS" what kind of traffic was passed! ha ha, this is funny.

ky5u

03-10-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 10 2006,10:28)]Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 10 2006,08:34)]I'm very amused by charlie's claims that only CW was used, the winlink folk that where out there claimed that most trafic was passed using winlink2000, I guess winlink2000 now has a CW option otherwise these claims would conflict. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Didn't you know that " ALL" communications that came out of the Katrina situation passed through Charlie? That's how he "KNOWS" what kind of traffic was passed! ha ha, this is funny.
Spoken like a true man of God.

ky5u

03-10-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 10 2006,09:42)]Quote[/b] ]And who did the first personal attack? #Why the guy who posted a picture entitled "ag4yo is an ass"...Call: K9EKG Class: Technician .

Wellll....not exactly. That post simply had a picture of a donkey or mule type animal with a caption that read "AG4YO's QSL card", nowhere was there anything specifically calling you an ass, that part was left up to the imagination of the individual viewer. Anyway, the post is there for anyone who wants to see for themselves. Charlie, you have a nasty habit of twisting peoples comments to suit your agenda, and whether you realize it or not it diminishes your credibility, such as it is.
Filename of the picture on QRZ: # post-3-07342-ag4yoisanass.jpg

QRZ prepends post info to the user provided filename. You lose.

n0klu

03-10-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 10 2006,17:34)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 10 2006,10:28)]Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 10 2006,08:34)]I'm very amused by charlie's claims that only CW was used, the winlink folk that where out there claimed that most trafic was passed using winlink2000, I guess winlink2000 now has a CW option otherwise these claims would conflict. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Didn't you know that " ALL" communications that came out of the Katrina situation passed through Charlie? That's how he "KNOWS" what kind of traffic was passed! ha ha, this is funny.
Spoken like a true man of God.
It used to be a code-no-code argument, now it is a CW vs Winlink2000 fight!

This is so funny, I love these QRZ forums. It keeps me in good humor.

Sorry Charlie, only the BEST tasting tuna get to be StarKist Tuna!

N3TTN

03-10-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote[/b] ]Filename of the picture on QRZ: post-3-07342-ag4yoisanass.jpg

I still don't see it anywhere IN THE POST ITSELF, which was what I said in the first place. Anyway, if that information is archived elsewhere at the QRZ site, then youv'e got me there. Even so, I guess the powers that be did not consider it a personal attack or it would have been long since removed. TTN out.

PE1RDW

03-10-2006, 06:46 PM

Chairly I did prove my claim, namely that the winlink people that where in the area said to have used winlink, yet instead of proving your claim like I and others asked all you do is attack my post.
Sorry sir but that makes you unworthy of a decent debate, you are nothing more then a troll.

N4CND

03-11-2006, 12:06 AM

lets keep the code requirment however lower the freq restriction. instead of 50 mhz how about allowing no code geeks on 10 and 12 meters this would allow the arrl to sell more books on how to make your cb radio work on 10 and 12 meters
alot of the nocode geeks are all ready using this part of the spectrum anyway and they all have cb radios and illeagal amplifiers ready to go on 10 and 12 meters heck lets just open 24.5 to 30 MHz and make freeband legal the fcc ain't doin anything about the freeband anyway.javascript:emoticon('http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif')
smilie

N7YA

03-11-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 10 2006,11:10)]Quote[/b] ]Filename of the picture on QRZ: post-3-07342-ag4yoisanass.jpg

I still don't see it anywhere IN THE POST ITSELF, which was what I said in the first place. Anyway, if that information is archived elsewhere at the QRZ site, then youv'e got me there. Even so, I guess the powers that be did not consider it a personal attack or it would have been long since removed. TTN out.
No it wouldnt have, this stuff is what keeps fights going...why remove ANYTHING that will keep people clicking??

Im sure there a gold framed picture of Charlie on Freds desk with roses layed around it.

...at the end of the day, Fred can still say "hey, at least its not a porn site!"

Is it any different when new threads are posted, KNOWING full well what kind of firestorm they will start? noone says anything, noone tries to bring peace to our ranks except a few outsiders to the thread...and it usually ends in frustration.

The thread starts to fizzle, then new "news" is posted....maybe its about code vs. no-code, maybe its about BPL or winlink, or god knows what....and it starts all over again. this site is ham radios version of Myspace.com, big difference...on Myspace, people get along.

Oh well, keep clicking guys...help an OM out.

73...Adam, N7YA

ky5u

03-11-2006, 03:49 AM

.....the weathered gunslinger stands with his clear blue eyes fixed on the three bodies laying in the street of the western town. The smoke rises gently from the barrel of his recently fired sixgun. Children hide behind their mothers skirts, but peak tentatively around them for a glimpse of fleeting mortality. The gunslinger opens the sixgun and drops three spent shells to the ground. As they hit, small pops of dust rise from the dirt street. From his gunbelt, the gunman takes three fresh cartriges and loads the shining gun, snapping the breach closed. He effortlessly places the sixgun back into its holster in what appears to be the blink of an eye, then turns gracefully and slowly walks away into the sunset.

k9ekg

03-11-2006, 04:59 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 10 2006,10:37)]Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 10 2006,09:42)]Quote[/b] ]And who did the first personal attack? Why the guy who posted a picture entitled "ag4yo is an ass"...Call: K9EKG Class: Technician .

Wellll....not exactly. That post simply had a picture of a donkey or mule type animal with a caption that read "AG4YO's QSL card", nowhere was there anything specifically calling you an ass, that part was left up to the imagination of the individual viewer. Anyway, the post is there for anyone who wants to see for themselves. Charlie, you have a nasty habit of twisting peoples comments to suit your agenda, and whether you realize it or not it diminishes your credibility, such as it is.
Filename of the picture on QRZ: post-3-07342-ag4yoisanass.jpg

QRZ prepends post info to the user provided filename. You lose.
He is right, TTN. Thats how its saved. Fitting file name huh?

ki4nzu

03-11-2006, 05:41 AM

I think the fact that the FCC is dropping the code requirement is fine, BUT they should at least let it be optional. Some people may have a special interest in the Morse code (like me), and I just think it would be totally insane for them to just drop it completely and they should keep it for the people who want a challenge, or just have a love for Morse.

N7YA

03-11-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 10 2006,20:49)].....the weathered gunslinger stands with his clear blue eyes fixed on the three bodies laying in the street of the western town. The smoke rises gently from the barrel of his recently fired sixgun. Children hide behind their mothers skirts, but peak tentatively around them for a glimpse of fleeting mortality. The gunslinger opens the sixgun and drops three spent shells to the ground. As they hit, small pops of dust rise from the dirt street. From his gunbelt, the gunman takes three fresh cartriges and loads the shining gun, snapping the breach closed. He effortlessly places the sixgun back into its holster in what appears to be the blink of an eye, then turns gracefully and slowly walks away into the sunset...
...only to wake up drooling on his own shoulder with a kink in his neck, his monitor screen darkened. with a wisk of his hand, he jiggles the mouse and the dormant CRT springs out of screensaver mode and the old, overweight gunslinger realizes he has yet to finish his next QRZ masterpiece.
Yes, with THIS next post, he will dismantle everyone who posts against him. with this epic he will continue his legacy of justice against all who strike his ire. with every keystroke he will vanquish the evil of his own perception.
He will retire his trusty shining keyboard only when deaths cold hand draws faster....and only then...

well, either that or when QRZ no longer makes any money-per-click...that may be a while.

PE1RDW

03-11-2006, 11:37 AM

AG4YO a troll?

Lets have a look at the wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll) about trolls.

under Disruptive trolls we find:
Opinionated statements: Posting messages expressing their own opinions as generally accepted facts without offering any proof or analysis.

under Attention-seeking trolls:
Intentionally posting an outrageous argument, deliberately constructed around a fundamental but obfuscated flaw or error. Often the poster will become defensive when the argument is refuted, and may continue the thread through the use of further flawed arguments; this is referred to as "feeding" the troll.

Feigning innocence, after a flamewar ensues.

N3TTN

03-11-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote[/b] ]N7YA Wrote: "only to wake up drooling on his own shoulder with a kink in his neck, his monitor screen darkened. with a wisk of his hand, he jiggles the mouse and the dormant CRT springs out of screensaver mode and the old, overweight gunslinger realizes he has yet to finish his next QRZ masterpiece.
Yes, with THIS next post, he will dismantle everyone who posts against him. with this epic he will continue his legacy of justice against all who strike his ire. with every keystroke he will vanquish the evil of his own perception.
He will retire his trusty shining keyboard only when deaths cold hand draws faster....and only then...well, either that or when QRZ no longer makes any money-per-click...that may be a while.

Awesome piece of work there Adam, and spot on in this case.

Quote[/b] ]PE1RDW Wrote: "Lets have a look at the wiki page about trolls.

under Disruptive trolls we find:
Opinionated statements: Posting messages expressing their own opinions as generally accepted facts without offering any proof or analysis.

under Attention-seeking trolls:
Intentionally posting an outrageous argument, deliberately constructed around a fundamental but obfuscated flaw or error. Often the poster will become defensive when the argument is refuted, and may continue the thread through the use of further flawed arguments; this is referred to as "feeding" the troll.

WOW, very appropriate, the similarities are amazing. I fear you have "lit the fuse" though, so to speak, and now we will get to sit back and watch the fireworks. TTN out.

kd4mxe

03-11-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 11 2006,04:37)]AG4YO a troll?

Lets have a look at the wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll) about trolls.

.

.

Feigning innocence, after a flamewar ensues.
pe1rdw-under Attention-seeking trolls:
Intentionally posting an outrageous argument, deliberately constructed around a fundamental but obfuscated flaw or error. Often the poster will become defensive when the argument is refuted, and may continue the thread through the use of further flawed arguments; this is referred to as "feeding" the troll # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # (o no this #should hit #some where it #hurt,s) # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #under Disruptive trolls we find:
Opinionated statements: Posting messages expressing their own opinions as generally accepted facts without offering any proof or analysis # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ( this #has got to hit some hard here) 73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

N3TTN

03-11-2006, 01:42 PM

An Open Invitation To Charlie, AG4YO.....

Look Charlie, I'm willing to keep an open mind with regard to your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW, but thus far you have refused to provide any independent sources whatsoever to support your claim. Personally, I find that claim preposterous in the extreme, I mean give me a break, I was born at night, but not last night. Just because people ask you to substantiate your claims does not mean they are calling you a liar, your whole "don't call me a liar" retort is just a figment of your imagination and a defense mechanism, and it is not serving you very well in the eyes of others I'm afraid. I find it interesting that not one person has stepped forward to corroborate your contentions, and assuming that you were in New Orleans as you say you were, you were not operating in a vacuum, there had to be hundreds even thousands of other ops participating, and it's curious that none have come to your defense thus far. When you keep repeating the same claim, along with your shrill verbal counterattacks, you succeed only in making yourself look like more of a buffoon. In an effort to put an end to this endless blather, I am going to make this offer: If you can provide us with some credible independent proof of your claim, a news article, an article at a ham site, something that we can all look at and say "hey, he was right", I will come back here and humble myself before the masses, and publicly apologize for having the temerity to doubt you, fair enough?? That being said, I think it is fair to say that there are quite a few of us here that wish you would "put up, or shut up" so to speak. Are you up to the challenge, or will you persist with more of the same?? The choice is yours, lets see what you are made of. TTN out.

kd4mxe

03-11-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 11 2006,06:42)]An Open Invitation To Charlie, AG4YO.....

Look Charlie, I'm willing to keep an open mind with regard to your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW, but thus far you have refused to provide any independent sources whatsoever to support your claim. Personally, I find that claim preposterous in the extreme, I mean give me a break, I was born at night, but not last night. Just because people ask you to substantiate your claims does not mean they are calling you a liar, your whole "don't call me a liar" retort is just a figment of your imagination and a defense mechanism, and it is not serving you very well in the eyes of others I'm afraid. I find it interseting that not one person has stepped forward to corroborate your contentions, and assuming that you were in New Orleans as you say you were, you were not operating in a vacuum, there had to be hundreds even thousands of other ops participating, and it's curious that none have come to your defense thus far. When you keep repeating the same claim, along with your shrill verbal counterattacks, you succeed only in making yourself look like more of a buffoon. In an effort to put an end to this endless blather, I am going to make this offer: If you can provide us with some credible independent proof of your claim, a news article, an article at a ham site, something that we can all look at and say "hey, he was right", I will come back here and humble myself before the masses, and publicly apologize for having the temerity to doubt you, fair enough?? That being said, I think it is fair to say that there are quite a few of us here that wish you would "put up, or shut up" so to speak. Are you up to the challenge, or will you persist with more of the same?? The choice is yours, lets see what you are made of. TTN out.
and the gun figher walks off into the sun set , and ewakes the next morning to the next gun Battle and wonders if this is his last , But he Rembers he lives By the gun so he must die By the gun , 73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

AC0GT

03-11-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote[/b] (ki4nzu @ Mar. 10 2006,23:41)]I think the fact that the FCC is dropping the code requirement is fine, BUT they should at least let it be optional. Some people may have a special interest in the Morse code (like me), and I just think it would be totally insane for them to just drop it completely and they should keep it for the people who want a challenge, or just have a love for Morse.
When the FCC drops the Morse code test requirement the testing becomes optional by definition. You can still take a Morse code test if you like but it the FCC will not use the results of the test as a deciding factor to get your license. The ARRL has had Morse practice sessions and speed tests for decades and I don't think that will end just because of the change in the testing requirements.

After the testing requirement is gone you will still be able to enjoy Morse code on the air just as before. That will not change.

kh6dan

03-11-2006, 06:34 PM

This is from Dictionary.com

Geek:

1. A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
2. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
2. A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.

no code:

1 : an order not to revive or sustain a patient who experiences a life-threatening event (as heart stoppage) <dislikes putting a no code on patients —Gail A. Campbell>
2 : a patient assigned a no code <whether a … patient should be made a no code —Sabrina D. Jarvis>

Tech minus - struggling to learn the code - not feeling very good about myself.

W5IEI

03-11-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 11 2006,06:57)]Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 11 2006,06:42)]An Open Invitation To Charlie, AG4YO.....

Look Charlie, I'm willing to keep an open mind with regard to your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW, but thus far you have refused to provide any independent sources whatsoever to support your claim. Personally, I find that claim preposterous in the extreme, I mean give me a break, I was born at night, but not last night. Just because people ask you to substantiate your claims does not mean they are calling you a liar, your whole "don't call me a liar" retort is just a figment of your imagination and a defense mechanism, and it is not serving you very well in the eyes of others I'm afraid. I find it interseting that not one person has stepped forward to corroborate your contentions, and assuming that you were in New Orleans as you say you were, you were not operating in a vacuum, there had to be hundreds even thousands of other ops participating, and it's curious that none have come to your defense thus far. When you keep repeating the same claim, along with your shrill verbal counterattacks, you succeed only in making yourself look like more of a buffoon. In an effort to put an end to this endless blather, I am going to make this offer: If you can provide us with some credible independent proof of your claim, a news article, an article at a ham site, something that we can all look at and say "hey, he was right", I will come back here and humble myself before the masses, and publicly apologize for having the temerity to doubt you, fair enough?? That being said, I think it is fair to say that there are quite a few of us here that wish you would "put up, or shut up" so to speak. Are you up to the challenge, or will you persist with more of the same?? The choice is yours, lets see what you are made of. TTN out.
and the gun figher walks off into the sun set , and ewakes the next morning to the next gun Battle and wonders if this is his last , But he Rembers he lives By the gun so he must die By the gun , 73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Can anyone decypher what this guy says in english?

k9ekg

03-11-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote[/b] (W5IEI @ Mar. 11 2006,13:56)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 11 2006,06:57)]Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 11 2006,06:42)]An Open Invitation To Charlie, AG4YO.....

Look Charlie, I'm willing to keep an open mind with regard to your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW, but thus far you have refused to provide any independent sources whatsoever to support your claim. Personally, I find that claim preposterous in the extreme, I mean give me a break, I was born at night, but not last night. Just because people ask you to substantiate your claims does not mean they are calling you a liar, your whole "don't call me a liar" retort is just a figment of your imagination and a defense mechanism, and it is not serving you very well in the eyes of others I'm afraid. I find it interseting that not one person has stepped forward to corroborate your contentions, and assuming that you were in New Orleans as you say you were, you were not operating in a vacuum, there had to be hundreds even thousands of other ops participating, and it's curious that none have come to your defense thus far. When you keep repeating the same claim, along with your shrill verbal counterattacks, you succeed only in making yourself look like more of a buffoon. In an effort to put an end to this endless blather, I am going to make this offer: If you can provide us with some credible independent proof of your claim, a news article, an article at a ham site, something that we can all look at and say "hey, he was right", I will come back here and humble myself before the masses, and publicly apologize for having the temerity to doubt you, fair enough?? That being said, I think it is fair to say that there are quite a few of us here that wish you would "put up, or shut up" so to speak. Are you up to the challenge, or will you persist with more of the same?? The choice is yours, lets see what you are made of. TTN out.
and the gun figher walks off into the sun set , and ewakes the next morning to the next gun Battle and wonders if this is his last , But he Rembers he lives By the gun so he must die By the gun , 73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Can anyone decypher what this guy says in english?
TTO thinks 4YO is BS. 4YO thinks TTO is BS.

kd4mxe

03-12-2006, 12:38 AM

Quote[/b] (W5IEI @ Mar. 11 2006,13:56)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 11 2006,06:57)]Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 11 2006,06:42)]An Open Invitation To Charlie, AG4YO.....

Look Charlie, I'm willing to keep an open mind with regard to your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW, but thus far you have refused to provide any independent sources whatsoever to support your claim. Personally, I find that claim preposterous in the extreme, I mean give me a break, I was born at night, but not last night. Just because people ask you to substantiate your claims does not mean they are calling you a liar, your whole "don't call me a liar" retort is just a figment of your imagination and a defense mechanism, and it is not serving you very well in the eyes of others I'm afraid. I find it interseting that not one person has stepped forward to corroborate your contentions, and assuming that you were in New Orleans as you say you were, you were not operating in a vacuum, there had to be hundreds even thousands of other ops participating, and it's curious that none have come to your defense thus far. When you keep repeating the same claim, along with your shrill verbal counterattacks, you succeed only in making yourself look like more of a buffoon. In an effort to put an end to this endless blather, I am going to make this offer: If you can provide us with some credible independent proof of your claim, a news article, an article at a ham site, something that we can all look at and say "hey, he was right", I will come back here and humble myself before the masses, and publicly apologize for having the temerity to doubt you, fair enough?? That being said, I think it is fair to say that there are quite a few of us here that wish you would "put up, or shut up" so to speak. Are you up to the challenge, or will you persist with more of the same?? The choice is yours, lets see what you are made of. TTN out.
and the gun figher walks off into the sun set , and ewakes the next morning to the next gun Battle #and wonders if this is his last , But #he Rembers he lives By the gun so he must die By the gun , #73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Can anyone decypher what this guy says in english?
w5iei-well sir some can you may not Be Bright enought to cause you dont sound so da# hot yourself ,73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WB9OMC

03-12-2006, 01:06 AM

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Feb. 19 2006,21:06)]Quote[/b] (w0pee @ Feb. 18 2006,13:30)]Life won't be the same if they eliminate CW.

Hey, wait a minute -- they aren't eliminating it. #I can still use CW on the air.

OK then. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
For the time being. #

Frankly, I really doubt that NCI will quietly fold their tents and slink away. #My guess is that they will continue to live up to their name.
Time to correct a myth that appears to be based only upon the choice of a name for the organization. "NoCode International" is a shortened version which, as I understood it, was made this way to give a three-letter-only acronym, NCI. The founders (if I am recalling the details correctly) wanted to just keep it very simple and short. It has been enough years that I don't recall all the details but I do recall that we never seriously believed that anyone would ignore what we have said and written and try to claim that because the NAME of the organization doesn't have the word "testing" in it that we automatically wanted to get rid of Morse Code completely and take CW out as an operating mode.

Well, we were wrong about people not taking advantage of the name. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As a Member of the NCI Board of Directors I think I can safely say without having to hold a Board vote on the topic that it is NOT now and never has been the desire of NCI to do anything other than to end TESTING on Morse Code. Without naming names or copying out internal Board minutes or anything like that, this may well have been the LEAST debated topic in the history of our Board. We have guys on our Board and members in the organization who are Morse enthusiasts, and as I understand it, some of them are pretty good brass pounders. They include CW as one of several modes that they use on the air, and we have NEVER discouraged that.

I believe that I can state this without argument from the rest of the Board of Directors: it is NOT NCI POLICY to try and get rid of the use of CW; it is NOT NCI POLICY to discourage anyone from using the CW mode or from learning and/or gaining proficiency in Morse Code. I do NOT forsee a time when NCI *would* take such a stance and I would actively argue AGAINST doing so.

I am an Extra Class Licensee first licensed as a Novice in 1974 and have held every license class in the so-called incentive system that was in-play prior to the NoCode Tech - Novice, Technician ©, Technician Plus (because the Technician © took the same written exam as the General at that time and since I had already passed Morse at 5WPM I was therefore made a Tech Plus by the FCC), General, Advanced and finally, Amateur Extra. I am in favor of ending Morse Testing but I personally support those Amateurs who find enjoyment and fulfillment in their Morse/CW activities. I also think that it is a great idea for VE's to be able to give higher speed Morse tests so that folks can earn a proficiency certificate for their own benefit even if it has no bearing on the licensing process. I am not a CW user myself save for a couple of times a year, but I *DO* keep a code key connected to the main rig and if so inclined, use it.

As for NCI ".....quietly fold[ing] their tents and slinking away" please keep in mind that the "I" stands for "International". While this thread has primarily been involved with what the FCC will do in the USA, NCI does have members working around the world towards the same end - ending Morse testing in *their* countries as well. So even if the FCC were to act TODAY, NCI would continue to work with our International partners and members to end Morse *testing*.

DISCLAIMER: now for my own opinion on one point, which is separate from ANYTHING to do with NCI. Reading this thread I have seen comments about the written test(s) being "next". I have stood for and continue to stand for, if anything in this regard, a STRENGTHENING of the written exams and an end to what I have called "mass class". As another poster wrote and IMHO quite accurately, people who just memorize the questions well enough to pass the written and then get dumped on the airwaves frequently have NO idea what they are doing. I am a believer in the "Elmer" concept, and would rather see new Amateurs go through a class run by experienced Amateurs before they go to the VE session AND make use of those Elmers AFTER the VE session to learn more about what's out there, *including* but certainly not limited to Morse Code.

How would I suggest strengthening the written exams? Rules and Operating Procedure, primarily. I focus on that because I think it is evident to anyone who listens to ANY band, not just HF, that these areas are sorely lacking. I think the technical side will sort itself out with just a little direction from FCC and NCVEC and ARRL and others; but Rules and Operating procedures IMHO really needs some serious work down to the level of individual Elmers and new Amateurs. Without a positive example set by the more experienced Amateur, how shall the new ones learn that this is supposed to be an "art for gentlemen and ladies"? It doesn't matter what the mode is, but it DOES matter that the good example needs to be there.....and it DOES matter that IMHO the written exams and thus the learning process should emphasize these points.

I think all the hollering about making the written exams harder or easier is largely irrelevant but I will say that reducing the number of questions reduces the chances to test on specific points of Rules and Operating Procedures. IFFFF the questions and study materials are correctly written AND Elmers in a class setting can provide guidance on the meaning of the material, I think we would be making a major improvement for our newly recruited Amateurs. They would be better prepared for going on the air, and everyone would be better served for having done this.

As for all the name-calling and silly, pointless fighting that the No-Code topic seems to generate I will leave that to the folks who have no better arguments to make.
Again, without mentioning any names or titles I think it is fair for me so say that the FCC can tell the difference between well-made arguments and debate as opposed to mindless, spiteful attacks. While I am wishing that they would act just like many posters here, I believe that they will make their decision NOT upon the latter issue (attacks) but upon the former (reasonable points) unless or until they prove otherwise.

Duane
WB9OMC

KC8ZEH

03-12-2006, 01:23 AM

Hello this is kc8zeh and I'v been a ham for two years so I'm new to this hoby.I would like to say that western union went out of busness jan 27 2006. Their bread & butter was mores code for 155 years. They said they could not compete in the world market too many other ways to communicate also I they say Australia,Canada,Western Europe have drop the code requirement.So why would you want to keep a antiquate system .

K4JF

03-12-2006, 02:01 AM

Quote[/b] (wb9omc @ Mar. 11 2006,18:06)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Feb. 19 2006,21:06)]Quote[/b] (w0pee @ Feb. 18 2006,13:30)]Life won't be the same if they eliminate CW.

Hey, wait a minute -- they aren't eliminating it. #I can still use CW on the air.

OK then. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
For the time being. #

Frankly, I really doubt that NCI will quietly fold their tents and slink away. #My guess is that they will continue to live up to their name.
Time to correct a myth that appears to be based only upon the choice of a name for the organization. "NoCode International" is a shortened version which, as I understood it, was made this way to give a three-letter-only acronym, NCI. The founders (if I am recalling the details correctly) wanted to just keep it very simple and short. #It has been enough years that I don't recall all the details but I do recall that we never seriously believed that anyone would ignore what we have said and written and try to claim that because the NAME of the organization doesn't have the word "testing" in it that we automatically wanted to get rid of Morse Code completely and take CW out as an operating mode.

Well, we were wrong about people not taking advantage of the name. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As a Member of the NCI Board of Directors I think I can safely say without having to hold a Board vote on the topic that it is NOT now and never has been the desire of NCI to do anything other than to end TESTING on Morse Code. #Without naming names or copying out internal Board minutes or anything like that, this may well have been the LEAST debated topic in the history of our Board. #We have guys on our Board and members in the organization who are Morse enthusiasts, and as I understand it, some of them are pretty good brass pounders. #They include CW as one of several modes that they use on the air, and we have NEVER discouraged that.

I believe that I can state this without argument from the rest of the Board of Directors: #it is NOT NCI POLICY to try and get rid of the use of CW; it is NOT NCI POLICY to discourage anyone from using the CW mode or from learning and/or gaining proficiency in Morse Code. #I do NOT forsee a time when NCI *would* take such a stance and I would actively argue AGAINST doing so.

I am an Extra Class Licensee first licensed as a Novice in 1974 and have held every license class in the so-called incentive system that was in-play prior to the NoCode Tech - Novice, Technician ©, Technician Plus (because the Technician © took the same written exam as the General at that time and since I had already passed Morse at 5WPM I was therefore made a Tech Plus by the FCC), General, Advanced and finally, Amateur Extra. I am in favor of ending Morse Testing but I personally support those Amateurs who find enjoyment and fulfillment in their Morse/CW activities. #I also think that it is a great idea for VE's to be able to give higher speed Morse tests so that folks can earn a proficiency certificate for their own benefit even if it has no bearing on the licensing process. #I am not a CW user myself save for a couple of times a year, but I *DO* keep a code key connected to the main rig and if so inclined, use it.

As for NCI ".....quietly fold their tents and slinking away" please keep in mind that the "I" stands for "International". #While this thread has primarily been involved with what the FCC will do in the USA, NCI does have members working around the world towards the same end - ending Morse testing in *their* countries as well. #So even if the FCC were to act TODAY, NCI would continue to work with our International partners and members to end Morse *testing*. #

DISCLAIMER: #now for my own opinion on one point, which is separate from ANYTHING to do with NCI. #Reading this thread I have seen comments about the written test(s) being "next". # I have stood for and continue to stand for, if anything in this regard, a STRENGTHENING of the written exams and an end to what I have called "mass class". #As another poster wrote and IMHO quite accurately, people who just memorize the questions well enough to pass the written and then get dumped on the airwaves frequently have NO idea what they are doing. #I am a believer in the "Elmer" concept, and would rather see new Amateurs go through a class run by experienced Amateurs before they go to the VE session AND make use of those Elmers AFTER the VE session to learn more about what's out there, *including* but certainly not limited to Morse Code.

How would I suggest strengthening the written exams? #Rules and Operating Procedure, primarily. #I focus on that because I think it is evident to anyone who listens to ANY band, not just HF, that these areas are sorely lacking. #I think the technical side will sort itself out with just a little direction from FCC and NCVEC and ARRL and others; but Rules and Operating procedures IMHO really needs some serious work down to the level of individual Elmers and new Amateurs. #Without a positive example set by the more experienced Amateur, how shall the new ones learn that this is supposed to be an "art for gentlemen and ladies"? #It doesn't matter what the mode is, but it DOES matter that the good example needs to be there.....and it DOES matter that IMHO the written exams and thus the learning process should emphasize these points.

I think all the hollering about making the written exams harder or easier is largely irrelevant but I will say that reducing the number of questions reduces the chances to test on specific points of Rules and Operating Procedures. IFFFF the questions and study materials are correctly written AND Elmers in a class setting can provide guidance on the meaning of the material, I think we would be making a major improvement for our newly recruited Amateurs. #They would be better prepared for going on the air, and everyone would be better served for having done this.

As for all the name-calling and silly, pointless fighting that the No-Code topic seems to generate I will leave that to the folks who have no better arguments to make.
Again, without mentioning any names or titles I think it is fair for me so say that the FCC can tell the difference between well-made arguments and debate as opposed to mindless, spiteful attacks. #While I am wishing that they would act just like many posters here, I believe that they will make their decision NOT upon the latter issue (attacks) but upon the former (reasonable points) unless or until they prove otherwise.

Duane
WB9OMC
Interesting comments, Duane. We'll see. But how do you explain the vicious attacks here and the other board on anyone who even [i]hints that they might enjoy CW? In a thread about a commemorative station, for example.

n3jbh

03-12-2006, 02:39 AM

holly crap 80 pages you guys rock http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ky5u

03-12-2006, 03:41 AM

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 11 2006,06:42)]An Open Invitation To Charlie, AG4YO.....

Look Charlie, I'm willing to keep an open mind with regard to your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW, but thus far you have refused to provide any independent sources whatsoever to support your claim. Personally, I find that claim preposterous in the extreme, I mean give me a break, I was born at night, but not last night. Just because people ask you to substantiate your claims does not mean they are calling you a liar, your whole "don't call me a liar" retort is just a figment of your imagination and a defense mechanism, and it is not serving you very well in the eyes of others I'm afraid. I find it interesting that not one person has stepped forward to corroborate your contentions, and assuming that you were in New Orleans as you say you were, you were not operating in a vacuum, there had to be hundreds even thousands of other ops participating, and it's curious that none have come to your defense thus far. When you keep repeating the same claim, along with your shrill verbal counterattacks, you succeed only in making yourself look like more of a buffoon. In an effort to put an end to this endless blather, I am going to make this offer: If you can provide us with some credible independent proof of your claim, a news article, an article at a ham site, something that we can all look at and say "hey, he was right", I will come back here and humble myself before the masses, and publicly apologize for having the temerity to doubt you, fair enough?? That being said, I think it is fair to say that there are quite a few of us here that wish you would "put up, or shut up" so to speak. Are you up to the challenge, or will you persist with more of the same?? The choice is yours, lets see what you are made of. TTN out.
1. The statement, "...your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW" is not even close to what I said.

2. No proof is needed. I was there and I reported accurately what I heard. You are free to disagree. You are also free to provide evidence that the real statement I made is in error.

W5HTW

03-12-2006, 04:32 AM

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 11 2006,17:38)]and the gun figher walks off into the sun set , and ewakes the next morning to the next gun Battle and wonders if this is his last , But he Rembers he lives By the gun so he must die By the gun , 73 Bill :D
Can anyone decypher what this guy says in english?[/quote]
w5iei-well sir some can you may not Be Bright enought to cause you dont sound so da# hot yourself ,73 Bill :D[/QUOTE]
I believe that is the NEW English (kinda like the NEW ham radio.) Spell it however you wish, if it makes you "feel good." That's what they teach in school. Capitalize it or not, your choice. However you do it, you get the blue ribbon.

Ed

N7YA

03-12-2006, 04:36 AM

Quote[/b] (NH7XQ @ Mar. 11 2006,11:34)]This is from Dictionary.com

Geek:

1. A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
2. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
3. A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.
...lets see here, i think im a geek...i WANT to be a geek....

1. nope, not me, i have social skills and dexterity as a result of self defense abilities...but boy i have made some bad decisions.

2. maybe a little bit, but i am great at talking to people face to face...my jobs rely on it. Im a bit of a gear head, though. but its not really me...

3. YES!!! thats me!! you have me nailed there!! i prefer to COOK the chicken first. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73...Adam, N7YA

W5HTW

03-12-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 11 2006,17:38)]Quote[/b] (W5IEI @ Mar. 11 2006,13:56)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 11 2006,06:57)]Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 11 2006,06:42)]An Open Invitation To Charlie, AG4YO.....

Look Charlie, I'm willing to keep an open mind with regard to your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW, but thus far you have refused to provide any independent sources whatsoever to support your claim. Personally, I find that claim preposterous in the extreme, I mean give me a break, I was born at night, but not last night. Just because people ask you to substantiate your claims does not mean they are calling you a liar, your whole "don't call me a liar" retort is just a figment of your imagination and a defense mechanism, and it is not serving you very well in the eyes of others I'm afraid. I find it interseting that not one person has stepped forward to corroborate your contentions, and assuming that you were in New Orleans as you say you were, you were not operating in a vacuum, there had to be hundreds even thousands of other ops participating, and it's curious that none have come to your defense thus far. When you keep repeating the same claim, along with your shrill verbal counterattacks, you succeed only in making yourself look like more of a buffoon. In an effort to put an end to this endless blather, I am going to make this offer: If you can provide us with some credible independent proof of your claim, a news article, an article at a ham site, something that we can all look at and say "hey, he was right", I will come back here and humble myself before the masses, and publicly apologize for having the temerity to doubt you, fair enough?? That being said, I think it is fair to say that there are quite a few of us here that wish you would "put up, or shut up" so to speak. Are you up to the challenge, or will you persist with more of the same?? The choice is yours, lets see what you are made of. TTN out.
and the gun figher walks off into the sun set , and ewakes the next morning to the next gun Battle and wonders if this is his last , But he Rembers he lives By the gun so he must die By the gun , 73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Can anyone decypher what this guy says in english?
w5iei-well sir some can you may not Be Bright enought to cause you dont sound so da# hot yourself ,73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
That's the NEW English. Spelling is optional, as is capitalization, grammar, anything resembling structure. Remember, school today teaches, "If it feels good, it's right." Nobody fails.

Kinda like the New Ham Radio.

Ed

N7YA

03-12-2006, 08:17 AM

POW!!! There...i just wanted to be post number 800!!!

ok, there....i did something worthwhile here on QRZ.

ok, back to the REAL radio, enough computer stuff.

73...Adam, N7YA

N7YA

03-12-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Mar. 11 2006,21:50)]That's the NEW English. Spelling is optional, as is capitalization, grammar, anything resembling structure. Remember, school today teaches, "If it feels good, it's right." Nobody fails.

Kinda like the New Ham Radio.

Ed
>sigh<

I hate to say it, but hes right. our education system sucks. we have kids graduating high school with barely a 5th grade reading and comprehension level.

Problem is a number of things which include, but not limited to...underpaid teachers, overcrowded classes, overworked teachers, disenchanted teachers, teachers afraid to step up and take control of the class because they could be beat up or sued, teachers who feel disconnected from those above them in administrative positions who never listen to them anyway because they are too busy crunching numbers to care, a TOTAL disconnection from the administrative level of education from the kids they are supposed to be representing, major corporate influx of products into the school system...creating fat, lazy, confused kids who are sedated by convenience. and this is JUST the education problem.

Basically, we send our kids to a day care center/cafateria/very-low security prison and then go to our 2 jobs just to keep up with our rising recession (that officially doesnt exist). most parents dont have the time or energy to actually talk to thier kids about how to be an adult...many do it with a short and sweet "because i said, thats why, im busy". we are their trainers, not the schools, and it appears we have failed en masse. so who has the answers? the Ipods they take to class? the Coca~Cola machines in the hallways? the fashion industry encouraging young girls to puke or else they will end up fat like the rest of the kids? its a mess, guys. i know, im a dad and THIS is the mess i get to difuse. i am VERY fortunate to have the son i have, smart kid...he actually still listens, i hope i can still reach him in the coming years.

New Ham Radio is the least of our worries, gang....the above scenario is not fiction, its America. and nobody has a good answer we can all agree on...all we get is a nation divided, people unable and unwilling to try to understand eachother for fear of looking like a p*ssy, from people in the streets, to "red" states and "blue" states all the way up to our "leaders" from BOTH parties showing us firsthand how to properly divide a nation....and finally to us here, nipping at eachother over how to enjoy a damn hobby!

Ed, we all fail, im sorry to say. the only ones who dont are the ones taking care of themselves only, focusing on their own future and making sure their own backyard is clean...and not giving a rats arse about the one next door.

....and we concern ourselves with where new blood is coming from in our HOBBY?? we need new blood everywhere.

Ed, it is with great regret that i agree with you on this, regret is not because its you by any means...but because its right. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

carry on, gentlemen, i cant stop you.

73...Adam, N7YA

N3TTN

03-12-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote[/b] ]AG4YO Wrote: 1. The statement, "...your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW" is not even close to what I said.

Really?? Here is the question I asked:

Quote[/b] ]I am curious to know what overall percentage of the amateur radio emcomms traffic that took place in the aftermath of Katrina were conducted in morse only?? I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but enquiring minds want to know.

And here is your response:

Quote[/b] ]I know this is a troll from you but here goes:

For 3 days in New Orleans on HF, at least 95%. My observation was 100%

Your memory seems to be slipping a bit Charlie. OK, show us that for even 3 days your statement is true. This same tired old line of yours that "I was there, and you'll just have to take my word for it, or else you are calling me a liar" is not getting much sympathy any more, but I suppose that's all we are ever going to get from you.

W5HTW

03-12-2006, 02:56 PM

And in the 50 years since, you never had a chance - or desire - to improve yourself. Not even today, with access to the internet.

I agree, though. Kinda hard to learn code simply sitting on one's butt.

ed

ky5u

03-12-2006, 03:39 PM

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 12 2006,04:19)]Quote[/b] ]AG4YO Wrote: 1. The statement, "...your claim that 95 to 100 percent of all Katrina emcomms were on HF CW" is not even close to what I said.

Really?? Here is the question I asked:

Quote[/b] ]I am curious to know what overall percentage of the amateur radio emcomms traffic that took place in the aftermath of Katrina were conducted in morse only?? I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but enquiring minds want to know.

And here is your response:

Quote[/b] ]I know this is a troll from you but here goes:

For 3 days in New Orleans on HF, at least 95%. My observation was 100%

Your memory seems to be slipping a bit Charlie. OK, show us that for even 3 days your statement is true. This same tired old line of yours that "I was there, and you'll just have to take my word for it, or else you are calling me a liar" is not getting much sympathy any more, but I suppose that's all we are ever going to get from you.
LOL! Thanks for admitting your rendition of my statement was innacurate. As for the rest, I'll not support your natural tendencies toward laziness. Sitting on your touche waiting for the FCC to hand you a freebie, and sitting on your rump waiting for someone else to "prove" something to you so you don't have to do the work to support your fantasies. You want to be lazy? Not my job to help you. When folks read your messages, they need to take into account:

Call: N3TTN Class: Technician

The subject is Morse Code testing. Now why would you be interested in changing the subject? ROFLMAO!!!

ky5u

03-12-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Mar. 11 2006,21:32)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 11 2006,17:38)]and the gun figher walks off into the sun set , and ewakes the next morning to the next gun Battle and wonders if this is his last , But he Rembers he lives By the gun so he must die By the gun , 73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Can anyone decypher what this guy says in english?
w5iei-well sir some can you may not Be Bright enought to cause you dont sound so da# hot yourself ,73 Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/quote]
I believe that is the NEW English (kinda like the NEW ham radio.) Spell it however you wish, if it makes you "feel good." That's what they teach in school. Capitalize it or not, your choice. However you do it, you get the blue ribbon.

Ed[/QUOTE]
Ed,

Bill is a rural older gentleman who may not have as much book smarts as some of us, but after talking with him on QRZ for years, he's one of those common sense guys we all admire. I don't agree with what he says sometimes but if there is an example of someone who continually tries to meet the requirements and just has problems, he is it. If I were the FCC, Bill would have a General Class license tomorrow. He is not lazy and whiney like some of the others.

Just though I'd let you know that in my book his english ain't the best, but Bill is A-OK.

wy9l

03-12-2006, 04:03 PM

KC9HRO
i think the old timers are set in there ways.
i commend them on getting there licenses the way they hqd to back then,but times are changing,so please ,change with the times,i joined the ham radio society for fellowship & friendships,it seems this code issue is dividing everyone in half & it shouldnt be that way. as for me i have alot to learn from the guys who took there code & each levels of license,but it sure doesnt make it easy to ask for help from someone who is not willing to change with the times.
delbert kc9hro

kd4mxe

03-12-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote[/b] (kc9hro @ Mar. 12 2006,09:03)]KC9HRO
i think the old timers are set in there ways.
i commend them on getting there licenses the way they hqd to back then,but times are changing,so please ,change with the times,i joined the ham radio society for fellowship & friendships,it seems this code issue is dividing everyone in half & it shouldnt be that way. as for me i have alot to learn from the guys who took there code & each levels of license,but it sure doesnt make it easy to ask for help from someone who is not willing to change with the times.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # delbert #kc9hro
kc9hro- sir this is true , 73 Bill

WB9OMC

03-13-2006, 07:44 AM

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Mar. 11 2006,19:01)][quote=wb9omc,Mar. 11 2006,18:06][quote=K4JF,Feb. 19 2006,21:06][quote=w0pee,Feb. 18 2006,13:30]
<snip for brevity>
Interesting comments, Duane. #We'll see. #But how do you explain the vicious attacks here and the other board on anyone who even hints that they might enjoy CW? #In a thread about a commemorative station, for example.
I'm not sure I saw specifically which attacks you were referring to as the total number of posts to this thread is just HUGE. But it really doesn't matter, I don't think the attacks against ANYONE from ANYONE really represent the sort of spirit of "gentlemen and ladies" that I was referring to. I got OUT of the old internet news groups in part because they got so dirty and nasty that unless you wanted that sort of low garbage and ceased caring about the original subject matter, you got nothing of any value there.

Maybe that says it about as well as anything - the mindless attacks, regardless of who issues them, are of no value.

Duane
WB9OMC

PE1RDW

03-13-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 12 2006,08:39)]Call: N3TTN Class: Technician
Call: AG4YO Class: troll

to lazy/incapable of backing up his claims while demanding others back up their claims.

http://members.ij.net/captbob2112/troll2.jpg

ki4nzu

03-13-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote[/b] ]
Quote (ki4nzu @ Mar. 10 2006,23:41)
I think the fact that the FCC is dropping the code requirement is fine, BUT they should at least let it be optional. Some people may have a special interest in the Morse code (like me), and I just think it would be totally insane for them to just drop it completely and they should keep it for the people who want a challenge, or just have a love for Morse.

When the FCC drops the Morse code test requirement the testing becomes optional by definition. You can still take a Morse code test if you like but it the FCC will not use the results of the test as a deciding factor to get your license. The ARRL has had Morse practice sessions and speed tests for decades and I don't think that will end just because of the change in the testing requirements.

After the testing requirement is gone you will still be able to enjoy Morse code on the air just as before. That will not change.

That is a big releif. I am planning on going for my General this year and I am just glad to now know that it WILL be optional to take the code test with it. Thanks for letting me know this.
73 de
Kristen
KI4NZU http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

N3TTN

03-13-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote[/b] ]Call: AG4YO Class: troll

too lazy/incapable of backing up his claims while demanding others back up their claims.

I just want to make it clear that I made no claims of my own, I only asked Charlie to provide some support for his claim that 95 to 100 percent CW was used for all emmcoms for 3 days in New Orleans after Katrina, which he has consistently declined to do. His continued refusal to provide even the slightest shred of evidence to support his claim just makes it all the more suspicious. He made the claim, therefore the burden is on him to back up his statements, not anyone elses to prove him wrong.

WA3KYY

03-13-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 13 2006,07:38)]Quote[/b] ]Call: AG4YO Class: troll

too lazy/incapable of backing up his claims while demanding others back up their claims.

I just want to make it clear that I made no claims of my own, I only asked Charlie to provide some support for his claim that 95 to 100 percent CW was used for all emmcoms for 3 days in New Orleans after Katrina, which he has consistently declined to do. His continued refusal to provide even the slightest shred of evidence to support his claim just makes it all the more suspicious. He made the claim, therefore the burden is on him to back up his statements, not anyone elses to prove him wrong.
The problem is TTN, the data likely does not even exist. Folks were way to busy handling the traffic to record which mode was used and how many stations or nets were using what. I do not doubt Charlie's word on what he observed from his position on the ground from the beginning of the rescue and recovery effort. I also don't recall him claiming 95-100% of the initial EMCOMMS were on CW only that there were numerous, low power CW stations active during first 3 days, But then my memory isn;t what it used to be and there are too many posts to wade through to find his exact words.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

ky5u

03-13-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 13 2006,01:29)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 12 2006,08:39)]Call: N3TTN Class: Technician
Call: AG4YO Class: troll

to lazy/incapable of backing up his claims while demanding others back up their claims.

http://members.ij.net/captbob2112/troll2.jpg
Try to get over your jealousy and envy. Then you won't have to spend as much time trying so hard. ROFL!!

N3TTN

03-13-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote[/b] ]I also don't recall him claiming 95-100% of the initial EMCOMMS were on CW only that there were numerous, low power CW stations active during first 3 days, But then my memory isn;t what it used to be and there are too many posts to wade through to find his exact words.

No problem mike. Here is the text of the original post:

Quote[/b] ]Here is the question I asked:

N3TTN:
I am curious to know what overall percentage of the amateur radio emcomms traffic that took place in the aftermath of Katrina were conducted in morse only?? I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but enquiring minds want to know.

And here is his response:

AG4YO:
I know this is a troll from you but here goes:

For 3 days in New Orleans on HF, at least 95%. #My observation was 100%

Hope that helps. Anyway, I don't think it is really even a question of whether anyone believes his claim or not, most likely he is simply mistaken as someone else already suggested. It would have been impossible for him to monitor every frequency on every band, and that is what makes his claim rather dubious in my opinion.

N3TTN

03-13-2006, 03:22 PM

ky5u

03-13-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 13 2006,08:22)]Quote[/b] ]I also don't recall him claiming 95-100% of the initial EMCOMMS were on CW only that there were numerous, low power CW stations active during first 3 days, But then my memory isn;t what it used to be and there are too many posts to wade through to find his exact words.

No problem mike. Here is the text of the original post:

Quote[/b] ]Here is the question I asked:

N3TTN:
I am curious to know what overall percentage of the amateur radio emcomms traffic that took place in the aftermath of Katrina were conducted in morse only?? I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but enquiring minds want to know.

And here is his response:

AG4YO:
I know this is a troll from you but here goes:

For 3 days in New Orleans on HF, at least 95%. My observation was 100%

Hope that helps. Anyway, I don't think it is really even a question of whether anyone believes his claim or not, most likely he is simply mistaken as someone else already suggested. It would have been impossible for him to monitor every frequency on every band, and that is what makes his claim rather dubious in my opinion.
Thanks TTN for 'fessing up. As you show, my statement has nothing about ECOMM and is restricted to a 3 day period. And as RDW found out, what I said about the wide area of the response is true although apparantly in his country when you're shown to be wrong, you don't apologize, you post funny pictures and change the subject.

ky5u

03-13-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Mar. 13 2006,07:20)]Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Mar. 13 2006,07:38)]Quote[/b] ]Call: AG4YO Class: troll

too lazy/incapable of backing up his claims while demanding others back up their claims.

I just want to make it clear that I made no claims of my own, I only asked Charlie to provide some support for his claim that 95 to 100 percent CW was used for all emmcoms for 3 days in New Orleans after Katrina, which he has consistently declined to do. His continued refusal to provide even the slightest shred of evidence to support his claim just makes it all the more suspicious. He made the claim, therefore the burden is on him to back up his statements, not anyone elses to prove him wrong.
The problem is TTN, the data likely does not even exist. Folks were way to busy handling the traffic to record which mode was used and how many stations or nets were using what. I do not doubt Charlie's word on what he observed from his position on the ground from the beginning of the rescue and recovery effort. I also don't recall him claiming 95-100% of the initial EMCOMMS were on CW only that there were numerous, low power CW stations active during first 3 days, But then my memory isn;t what it used to be and there are too many posts to wade through to find his exact words.

73,
Mike WA3KYY
Thanks for the post, Mike. Your observations are exactly correct in most areas. In New Orleans, there was only a limited ECOMM presence (I am trying not to say "almost none" for the benefit of those I heard working so hard) for several days and mostly on VHF/UHF.

I was actually based just over 1 mile from the New Orleans Airport on E. James Drive just inside the St. Charles Parish line. Any ECOMM on Amateur HF would have blown my ears off at that distance. I also listened on my 706 backpack while airborne during the day. I listened at night from the base of operations.

I know this point has caused heartburn with some NCTs, but the real point was that there was no ECOMM CW presence to receive alot of the messages. My point is that CW still needs to be the PLAN C for emergencies. I have noticed that NTS/ECOMM is acknowledging this and recruiting more CW operators including specific monitoring frequencies for CW for the future. Very good.

N3TTN

03-14-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote[/b] ]AG4YO: 'fessing up. As you show, my statement has nothing about ECOMM

Fessing up to what? That whatever you are smoking is damaging your brain?? I asked the question regarding emcomms, and you replied. Therefore, it's implied that your response was in regard to my question. You have a serious problem man. TTN out.

ky5u

03-15-2006, 03:25 AM

TTN,

XXX OOO

ki4nzu

03-15-2006, 05:47 AM

Quote[/b] ]
Being able to copy CW at 5, 13, or 20 wpm does not make anyone a good op.

That is a rather broad statement to make.

Knowing code at 5-13 or 20 WPM (or better) certainly gives a good op a tremendous resource at his or her disposal to be used when it quite possibly might be the only mode to get through when others do not. It is also another skill that you know. While knowing the code does not make anyone a good or bad op, it makes the good ones better and more valuable than the ones who do not.

Communications using CW and the code can be done with very simple equipment and on flea power. You do not need a computer or a reader or a rigblaster interface. Digital modes are quite a bit more complex to get going and carries much more hardware infrastructure overhead than a simple but capable CW setup does.

I find it interesting that the FCC seems to be wrangling over the code issue. If they were going to drop the requirement one would think that it would have been already a done deal. Other countries dropped it almost immediately. Could it be that it might not happen?

73
George
K3UD

I agree George.
I do believe CW should stay for the fact that it not only gives the cw ops a good sensation that they've learned a rare skill and not everyone can say that they know how to work it, but also the fact that it is, by definition, the least expensive and its like you said, "to be used when it quite possibly might be the only mode to get through when others do not."
73 de KI4NZU kristen

PE1RDW

03-15-2006, 07:40 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 13 2006,08:14)]Try to get over your jealousy and envy.
I have no reason to be jealous or envous, I have a full licence.

I do find it very amusing that you say you proved me wrong while the only claim I made was that winlinkers made a claim to have used mostly winlink2000 in the katrina event, that claim was proven.

it's another troll tactic of you I guess, acusing others of twisting your claim and at the same time doing it yourself.

have another fish litle troll.

ky5u

03-15-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Mar. 15 2006,00:40)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 13 2006,08:14)]Try to get over your jealousy and envy.
I have no reason to be jealous or envous, I have a full licence.

I do find it very amusing that you say you proved me wrong while the only claim I made was that winlinkers made a claim to have used mostly winlink2000 in the katrina event, that claim was proven.

it's another troll tactic of you I guess, acusing others of twisting your claim and at the same time doing it yourself.

have another fish litle troll.
In trying to refute my CW statement, you used info on WinLink that didn't apply to the New Orleans area and didn't apply to the time frame of my comment. Good job! LOL! Interersting too that instead of simply admitting you're "proof" was off base, you try to change the subject with your troll picture.

I can't fault you for not knowing our geography being so many thousands of miles away and trying to sound like you know something. Just thought you'd be more honest about your mistake.

PE1RDW

03-15-2006, 02:55 PM

Ah now you are starting to show what's upsetting you, don't worry, I wasn't trying to use it as a refutal but as sarcasm, my mistake was expecting you to see the difference. besides I don't need to refute a claim that in itself is hard to believe for me.

Let me explain why I find it hard to believe, on 80 m I can contact everyone in europe in voice all day, granted I need to adjust the hight of the antenne to diferentiate between local (nvis) and regional (1/8 to 1/4 wavelength) but the mode makes no difference.
Now if you make a contact in voice when you are in a hurry would you rather do it in CW? I sure wouldn't, you can talk a lot faster then you can do CW or type.

offcourse you might hear more CW trafic if you concentrate on the CW section so your personal observation could be what you describe you simply missed the other trafic. this has been pointed out a few times but you haven't gone into that.

Can you explain how you made the observation you made?

ps. my "knowlidge" of the event was, like I said in the first post, seccond hand, the winlinkers that informed me might have collered it, I have no way of knowing that, I only know what I have been told and I have been honest to point out that I was relaying what I was told.

ky5u

03-15-2006, 07:43 PM

Ahhhh. It was a joke. Beats having to apologize doesn't it? I found on the 'net that when you really beat someone in making a point, they start commenting on your spelling. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

PE1RDW

03-16-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 15 2006,12:43)]Ahhhh. #It was a joke.
sarcasm is not the same as joke, I may not be native english speaking but I know the difference.

lets see what webster has to say:

Main Entry: 1joke
Pronunciation: 'jOk
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin jocus; perhaps akin to Old High German gehan to say, Sanskrit yAcati he asks
1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something (2) : an instance of jesting : KIDDING <can't take a joke> c : PRACTICAL JOKE d : LAUGHINGSTOCK
2 : something not to be taken seriously : a trifling matter <consider his skiing a joke -- Harold Callender> -- often used in negative construction <it is no joke to be lost in the desert>

Main Entry: sar·casm
Pronunciation: 'sär-"ka-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwar&s- to cut
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain <tired of continual sarcasms>
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm <this is no time to indulge in sarcasm>

In my case meaning 2a applies.

as for those attacking my spelling, I don't even need to do anything against those as bystanders will point out very fast that I speak more languages then most americans.

ky5u

03-16-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote[/b] ]...as for those attacking my spelling, I don't even need to do anything against those as bystanders will point out very fast that I speak more languages then most americans.

It helps to have a forked tongue. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

forked-tongue
Function: adjective
(From Native American)
:speaking things known to be untrue for the purpose of self promotion or obfuscation; also : one who cannot be trusted to be impartial as demonstrated by their words; also : liar, speaker of falsehoods.

The first definition applies.

N3TTN

03-16-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote[/b] ]speaking things known to be untrue for the purpose of self promotion or obfuscation; also : one who cannot be trusted to be impartial as demonstrated by ther words;

The gall of this guy is unbelievable. He has a lot of nerve accusing anyone of these things, but he should know, he is the master.

PE1RDW

03-16-2006, 06:30 PM

It´s better that charly says it then someone who uses his brain ;)

ky5u

03-16-2006, 07:43 PM

PE1RDW's effect on NCTs

n0klu

03-16-2006, 07:49 PM

Now that we have degenerated to personal attacks...
Lets get back to the original subject... We await the FCC's decission of retaining or droping the requirement of Code for testing.

ky5u

03-16-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 23 2006,12:44)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 22 2006,20:51)]I have a hearing disability and can't learn the code!!
Hey Look, AG4YO finally gave us a picture of himself.
tell me do you do this to keep your ears warm, or just for the smell?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Today: Now that we have degenerated to personal attacks...
Lets get back to the original subject... We await the FCC's decission of retaining or droping the requirement of Code for testing.
Your use of "we" was accurate.

n0klu

03-17-2006, 12:49 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 16 2006,21:51)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 23 2006,12:44)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 22 2006,20:51)]I have a hearing disability and can't learn the code!!
Hey Look, AG4YO finally gave us a picture of himself.
tell me do you do this to keep your ears warm, or just for the smell?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Today: Now that we have degenerated to personal attacks...
Lets get back to the original subject... We await the FCC's decission of retaining or droping the requirement of Code for testing.
Your use of "we" was accurate.
Exactly! But now count the number of postings that qualify for that statement... At least I don't go on... and on... and on... and on... like that stupid battery bunny commercial. I make my "jab" and let it go!

ky5u

03-17-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 16 2006,17:49)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 16 2006,21:51)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 23 2006,12:44)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 22 2006,20:51)]I have a hearing disability and can't learn the code!!
Hey Look, AG4YO finally gave us a picture of himself.
tell me do you do this to keep your ears warm, or just for the smell?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Today: Now that we have degenerated to personal attacks...
Lets get back to the original subject... We await the FCC's decission of retaining or droping the requirement of Code for testing.
Your use of "we" was accurate.
Exactly! But now count the number of postings that qualify for that statement... At least I don't go on... and on... and on... and on... like that stupid battery bunny commercial. I make my "jab" and let it go!
There was a posting from a newsletter a few months ago on QRZ that spoke about how some Amateurs find it necessary to make mental adjustments in order to rationalize their behavior. The example was something along the line of a child abuser having to have a murderer stand next to him in the mirror so when he looks at himself he can always say, "I'm good compared to THAT guy".

If you think our messages were "personal attacks", then own up to your own wrong-doing and leave me out of it. If you were just "funnin'" then you were wrong to call them attacks for both of us. Which is it?

n0klu

03-17-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 17 2006,16:38)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 16 2006,17:49)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 16 2006,21:51)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 23 2006,12:44)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 22 2006,20:51)]I have a hearing disability and can't learn the code!!
Hey Look, AG4YO finally gave us a picture of himself.
tell me do you do this to keep your ears warm, or just for the smell?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Today: Now that we have degenerated to personal attacks...
Lets get back to the original subject... We await the FCC's decission of retaining or droping the requirement of Code for testing.
Your use of "we" was accurate.
Exactly! But now count the number of postings that qualify for that statement... At least I don't go on... and on... and on... and on... like that stupid battery bunny commercial. I make my "jab" and let it go!
There was a posting from a newsletter a few months ago on QRZ that spoke about how some Amateurs find it necessary to make mental adjustments in order to rationalize their behavior. The example was something along the line of a child abuser having to have a murderer stand next to him in the mirror so when he looks at himself he can always say, "I'm good compared to THAT guy".

If you think our messages were "personal attacks", then own up to your own wrong-doing and leave me out of it. #If you were just "funnin'" then you were wrong to call them attacks for both of us. Which is it?
Of course I was referring to all the postings not just mine. Those who take any of this stuff personally... has problems. There are times when it get sharp, but it all should be taken as "funnin" rather than as a personal roast.

ky5u

03-18-2006, 02:45 AM

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 17 2006,12:23)]Of course I was referring to all the postings not just mine. Those who take any of this stuff personally... has problems. There are times when it get sharp, but it all should be taken as "funnin" rather than as a personal roast.
Good points.

N7YA

03-23-2006, 08:42 AM

soooo....who won?

::scratching head::

03-23-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 16 2006,14:49)]Now that we have degenerated to personal attacks...
Lets get back to the original subject...
No thanks. The personal attacks are more interesting and fun to read.

PE1RDW

03-23-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4cb @ Mar. 23 2006,04:53)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 16 2006,14:49)]Now that we have degenerated to personal attacks...
Lets get back to the original subject...
No thanks. The personal attacks are more interesting and fun to read.
If you want it I'm happy to provide you

<humormode>
I see that you are a FIST and SKCC member, that's proof enough that your IQ is sub zero.
</humormode>

How was that for unbased and factual imposible attack http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

n0klu

03-23-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote[/b] (N7YA @ Mar. 23 2006,08:42)]soooo....who won?

::scratching head::
Just like in thermonuclear war.... No one wins.

we just come to a consensus

KC1BUD

03-23-2006, 07:26 PM

I would think the way to go is to eliminate the test for code, because it is the only test for mode of transmission. They don't test for any other mode, why only code? Other transmission modes, if done incorrectly can cause more problems than transmitting incoherent code. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Keep the Radio spectrum the same for code, so that those that enjoy can continue to use code. But drop the Code test requirement. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I am a no code Tech studying for the General, and can't wait to converse on HF. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KC1BUD

03-23-2006, 07:29 PM

K4JF

03-24-2006, 02:38 PM

Quote[/b] (KC1BUD @ Mar. 23 2006,12:29)]I am a no code Tech studying for the General, and can't wait to converse on HF. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Then don't wait. Go ahead and get the license... it's not difficult.

kl0vu

03-27-2006, 04:46 PM

I'm a NCT, so my opinion may not carry much weight with hard-core code advocates, but I'll give you my 2 cents anyway.

I got in to amateur radio after hearing conversations of people on HF bands with an old shortwave radio. I began building my own receivers and antenna arrays to hear more as I began studying for my license. I loved the idea that I could TALK with people on the far side of the world. To be sure, I heard morse transmissions as well, but they didn't have the same excitement for me. After getting my NCT license, I started to fool around on local repeaters and networks in the area, but just couldn't get into talking to people I could call (for free) on my cell. I wanted to talk to countries in Africa, Asia, and the like. I began to teach myself code, but fell into linux at about the same time. It didn't take me long to realize that with the amount of time required to learn code, I could learn a programming language and many of the ins and outs of computer networking. It took me less than a week of fiddling with my computer to hold free phone conversations with the far side of the world - no license required. Today, I voluntarily administer over 15 linux-based computers spread out across the country. I have a thorough grounding in electronic theory (as evidenced by my early receiver projects) but find that I can do much more with a handful of pre-made circuit boards and an old computer tower. In short, ham radio offers little that cannot be done for free, with no license, on the internet. I can even BROADCAST on the internet. Today my license is buried in a drawer somewhere, and my radio has been silent for several years. I still dream of using a radio to talk to China, but I can't justify spending time to learn code when I could spend the same amount of time learning far more practical skills that have a much wider range of capabilities. Morse code still remains on my todo list, but far down on the list of priorities. Every now and again I listen on the shortwave to hams ragchewing on the HF bands, but it is getting more and more difficult to find them. I loved the ideals expressed by my OT mentors who told stories of hams on the cutting edge of radio communications - developing new technologies and "pushing the envelope" while using unwanted frequency bands. Today, however, the hobby is dying. I can contribute more to the advancement of communications tech with my laptop. I can talk to millions of people anywhere in the world while a ham license lets me talk to thousands. I sacrificed code to use IM, IRC, Usenet, VOIP, podcasting, and the like. Unless ham radio becomes available to a generation in which preprinted circuits are cheaper than a handful of resistors, the internet has the same capabilities with no license (but an equivalent amount of work), the ability to teach skills that transfer well to the modern job market, etc; ham radio is doomed.

As far as this no-code thing goes. Who cares. Let the OTs die off (another decade at most) and the entire hobby will die as the HF bands fall silent. I wonder if anybody will notice.