FCC Noncommital on Code Changes

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KC9HTU @ Feb. 27 2006,20:12)]9JK--

That was why my husband had trouble justifing upgrading to General.

He still feels like he did not earn that upgrade.

Jennifer
Quote[/b] ]KG9JK: I just had to add my two cents...

I'm an advanced class - and the reason I havent upgraded to Extra is because I wouldn't feel right not having to take the 20wpm cw test. I feel that those guys who took it and passed deserve the extra band space...
So I'm in limbo ... But I must say- most of the OM's know what they're talking about.
73' Nick

Do what I did. I passed the 5WPM test and stuck with the code until I could get to 20WPM as a way of respecting those folks who had to pass that test. My speed is steadily increasing beyond 20WPM now.

[kc0vuc]

Quote[/b] (n7wsb @ Feb. 18 2006,12:55)]Quote[/b] (n3jbh @ Feb. 18 2006,12:32)]" #Kc2idm # # # # QUOTE
Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. #If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. #dont give people privliges they havent earned. "
#
your a great guy to talk about privledges you didnt earn. heck your a tech and you tooK how many questions to get there? 35 you say . heck when i became a teck there was 85 questions to get there. sounds to me like you #didnt earn as much as you say. get the hell over it ok. when you took your test it was really easy. and i really doubt it ever get any easier so dont worry geeesh!!!
I think he's kidding. I agree that it seems to be the sentiment in amateur radio however. I had to do it - so do you.

Yes when I first got my license I had to take the novice exam - big deal. Am I a better person for it? No.

My first computer had a kilobyte of ram - should everyone start out with the same thing? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
It is thinking like kc2idm's that is a preventative of having more HAM's... it may be he is afraid of the competition, or new blood. The code requriement belongs to the Antique Retired Radio Leage's old phogey's who are truly afraid of progress. Yes, one had to know vacuum tube theory inside out to become a HAM years ago.. that would really help me operate and maintain today's solid state rigs, huh.. The code is an outmoded form of communication. To eliminate it from the band would be a real sin, as there are those that enjoy it. And to them, I say more power to ya. Keep the band spectrums for CW as they are.. eliminate the requirement to use the phone/data portion of the bands.. that is elitest discrimination of the simple minded order.

[W5HTW]

What does HAM stand for? Since you capitalized it, I guess it is an acronym for something. Please share. Thanks

Ed

[w8lio]

This code discussion is like Freddy Krueger, it just won't die. Jeez, either be a 2 meter geek for the rest of your life or go pass the code test and get on with it...anyone (deaf or dumb) can learn the code in under 30 days.

However, I don't think we need any new classes. If anything, I say we give the technician class some 10 meter phone privileges and maybe some voice privilages on a couple of the other hf bands. Kinda like the novice class.

I will admit, and I'm sure you could too. But I think radio is slowly dying around the country due to the internet and cell phones, and I would LOVE to see a whole new generation of operators on the air. (An operator boom if you could call it that)
Bring back the magic days, when there was lots of people on the air and we all talked and had fun.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Ka0sab]

Quote[/b] (k4eez @ Feb. 20 2006,14:17)]Hi
Can someone please help me out here???

The general class ham operators (To This Day) Who have already passed the 5.w.p.m code (weather it be 13 or 5 its a done deal) If the Fcc was to drop the current code, then what would that mean for us generals, who have already passed the Cw requirement and wish to upgrade our licenses???

Would have to take the code again or would we just simply Study and take the Advanced Written test?

My question is, what about us, to this day, who have already passed the CW requirement What will happen to us?

K4EEZ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
The same thing I wondered about all the Gen. who passed the 13 wpm code... Nope no advanced they stayed a Gen.

Now as for you guys NO there is not a Advanced Class anymore.

So study for the extra and maybe they will make a good call and keep the 5 Wpm for extra class and keep a little respect for those who really want to work for it!!

[PE1RDW]

What's the deal with all these licence classes anyway, all you need is 2 or maybe 3 classes.
entry level with 2m and 70cm and perhaps a small section of HF and a full licence, it will make figuring out what you are alowed in other countries you visit far simpler.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 27 2006,19:41)]Quote[/b] (wa4dou @ Feb. 27 2006,08:58)]Ed,
This is a major undertaking as it requires 20-30 mins per day for up to a month for an average person. With everyone trying to live life to the hilt these days, many just don't have that time to spare. Funny though, we all seem to find the time for things we want to do.
You're an old fuddy duddy for even suggesting something as irrelevant as learning morse code.
But here's a fellow saying he'll take the test that is offered - that is, when it is offered his way. So I say why not take the one that IS offered? That's what several hundred thousand others did to get ham licenses.

And instead of 30 minutes on QRZ, why not spend it on upgrading? It is, I admit, much easier to gripe than to "do."


Ed
No Ed, It was that poor downtrodden amateur DAV who said, "And when the FCC drops the element 1 testing soon, I will take you up on that advice and do exactly as you suggest. I will take and pass the required test and advance myself." Which is an admission that the code test has been a pretty good filter for HF after all!

[wa4dou]

I have a friend named Jerry who, several years back, when the test was about to change and drop to 5 wpm from 20 wpm for Extra, rushed to make the 20 wpm requirement. He moved in exactly the opposite direction. I was very proud of Jerry for doing that. I also understood why he did it. He was from another time and place and world.

[n9zxk]

Quote[/b] (ab0wr @ Feb. 26 2006,22:21)]Quote[/b] (n9zxk @ Feb. 26 2006,15:58)]Ok i want someone to show me where it is a rule that you have to upgrade? I also want someone to show me in the rules where if someone does upgrade they have to do it to please everyone and not what the fcc wants you to.

With all of this fighting bout code/nocode makes me wonder why i ever got into this. The funny thing about it is not one tech ever called me names. But alot of gen and xtra's have. That makes me feel like im not wanted on hf. Hell it even makes me not want to fire up the 711 to talk on 2 meters. people in the local jail are more friendly then most people here when they are talking bout this.

What ever happens will be. How many here are just getting sick of all of this. I know i am...
Where is there a rule?

How about this:

Part 97, Section 1,

The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

© Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.


There is no rule requiring a specific amateur to follow this fundamental purpose. On the other hand, if everyone in amateur radio just does the minimum so there is NO advancement in the communication and technical phases of the art then the ARS will just run itself into the ground by aspiring only to mediocrity instead of greatness.

If you don't like what is being said here, tune it out. Go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to read any of these posts. What's really pathetic on here are the self-flagellation pimps who enter a thread and complain about having to read the comments in the thread. It's like the old joke: Patient- "Doc, it hurts when I do this, can you help? Doc- Yes, don't do that!"

tim ab0wr
That still does not say you have to upgrade. Its said encouragement. I think i saw somewhere that a novice had to upgrade within a year, but i may wrong on that. As we know there isnt that class anymore so that rule does not apply.

To me ARS has allready has been run into the ground. The greatness of being a ham op isnt there like it was 20 years ago. Why, who knows. I think its do in part of the internet. We are also stuck with being part of CB or as alot of people think we are.

[w5cmp]

posting here is not going to make a difference the fcc cant see your post here.this is just a place to blow off steam.73

[n9zxk]

How true you are

[KI6ADA]

Quote[/b] (w5cmp @ Feb. 28 2006,08:58)]posting here is not going to make a difference .73
It's always fun to vent, just ask me! By the way I will be on Echolink at about 1600 PST. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] ]NCO: Why you are so nasty and mean spirited on this subject is beyond me.
Are you fair minded or are you not? Tell me how you justify that statement and say nothing about your pals on QRZ. I've patiently explained my thoughts to you on posting call and class, and you're crawfishing.

Fred?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KD5NCO]

Well Charlie I guess you missed this back a few pages

K3DAV

And all other no code techs (like me)

Don't fall for the bait

Present your opinion and argument as clearly as you can.

Remain confident in your status and do not worry that a few of the grumpy old men in here do not respect you. They are NOT the majority.

Learn for this experience, pledge that when you are a grumpy old man that you will remember this and there is no way you would ever treat the replacements as second class or beneath you. Younger? yes!, Ignorant? yes! Curious? yes! Interested? yes! Green? Yes! Poor or rich? who cares. Smart, average, or not too bright? who cares. Republican, democrat or both? who cares. This is a fraternal organization. There is not one Amateur that got where he or she is all by themselves.

Go join a club and accept that you will be the new guy.
Accept that you will not have the same status as the old 'been there done that' group. But don't accept belittlement and disrespect either, don't bother fighting if it happens. Find another group....most of them have mature adult leaders that are generally nice folks with open minds. Inwardly smile that one day you will be the old guy.

Remember that respect, and adult discussion is always a two way street. Do not fall into the trap of "he started it"

Be mindful that the Majority of older ARS members are not grumpy old men with the need to kick a new guy. Amateur radio has put many of us in a great position to learn from very experienced people, experienced in every walk of life. Ham radio is just the common interest. This is a good social thing. The old folks gain from the experience also. They get to pass on their wisdom and knowledge

[K3DAV]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 27 2006,10:51)]Why not take and pass the required test now? #Since you intend to later, your desire to upgrade is clear. #That's laudable. #So why wait? #

Ed
Well Ed, it's like this. That question has been answered many times in this thread, and the many threads before it. But when explaining as clear as a bell to the (Pro-Code) group, the explanation falls on deaf ears, and we are called bad names, and have nothing but false accusations thrown at us. If you need an example of this, just go back to the beginning of this thread and read.

Actually Ed, to answer your question would just start this thread in reruns again. Once was bad enough. Only those without prejudice already know and understand the right answer. Those who bicker about keeping a law that we all know is going to change anyway, are not capable of understanding it, and never will.

So when the FCC finally decides to drop the element 1 exam, I and thousands more will take the required test and upgrade quietly. Then we will start enjoying HF. If we encounter any of those who just like to cause trouble because of the code thing, then we will just follow my Father's good advice. "Ignore the foolish because they can't help it, and just go forward.

Take care Ed.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KD5NCO @ Feb. 28 2006,11:51)]Well Charlie I guess you missed this back a few pages

K3DAV

And all other no code techs (like me)

Don't fall for the bait

Present your opinion and argument as clearly as you can.

Remain confident in your status and do not worry that a few of the grumpy old men in here do not respect you. They are NOT the majority.

Learn for this experience, pledge that when you are a grumpy old man that you will remember this and there is no way you would ever treat the replacements as second class or beneath you. Younger? yes!, Ignorant? yes! Curious? yes! Interested? yes! Green? Yes! Poor or rich? who cares. Smart, average, or not too bright? who cares. Republican, democrat or both? who cares. This is a fraternal organization. There is not one Amateur that got where he or she is all by themselves.

Go join a club and accept that you will be the new guy.
Accept that you will not have the same status as the old 'been there done that' group. But don't accept belittlement and disrespect either, don't bother fighting if it happens. Find another group....most of them have mature adult leaders that are generally nice folks with open minds. Inwardly smile that one day you will be the old guy.

Remember that respect, and adult discussion is always a two way street. Do not fall into the trap of "he started it"

Be mindful that the Majority of older ARS members are not grumpy old men with the need to kick a new guy. Amateur radio has put many of us in a great position to learn from very experienced people, experienced in every walk of life. Ham radio is just the common interest. This is a good social thing. The old folks gain from the experience also. They get to pass on their wisdom and knowledge
Seems you're willing to "call names" where I am concerned, but your message to the WIPES is much more softened. But, I'll take that as a dissaproval of their methods. Thanks!

[K3DAV]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 27 2006,18:17)]Quote[/b] (KI6ADA @ Feb. 27 2006,16:00)]Everytime I read these threads, its always from the same 4 people. Don't you guys spend time chasing DX or improving your radio skills. If you are no longer interested in Amateur Radio, theres plenty of empty space on CB!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
You take QRZ waaaaay to seriously. #When you look at disagreements on QRZ, think about professional wrestling. #That's a good analogy.
Actually Chucky, these threads are supposed to be a serious debate forum. Hams should be able to come here and intelligently talk about issues that concern all hams equally. But you and a few other closed minded fools, have turned it into the WWE for your own personal entertainment. I am surprised sometimes that QRZ still keeps these forums open. Because idiots like you have done nothing to contribute to anything here except waste QRZ's web space by constantly stirring the pot of hate and discontent.

You are lucky that I am not in control of this forum. I would have banned you a long time ago, or at least told you to cool it in private, and returned a little control back to those who are serious about the issues at hand.

[ky5u]

DAV,

I called the ARRL for you and spoke to the VEC office. The examiners are required to make an accomodation for you. You should contact the lead examiner in your area. What they will often do (I was told by the ARRL) is arrange for a sending test for you. Instead of having to receive the code, you simply SEND. Learning to send is very much more simple than receiving as you can simply memorize the characters with no need to listen to them.

Other accomodations could be made as well up to and including the blinking light. If the examiner will not make an accomodation, call and report them to the ARRL VEC office at 860-594-0300. They will straighten out the matter for you.

If you arrange for a "sending" test and need letter groupings to help you learn the code easier, I can provide them for you.

[KD5NCO]

K3DAV

Charlie AG4YO is giving you the benefit of the doubt right now.

Disrespecting him with "Chucky" is as bad as his calling you a "wipe". But in this case he and another seasoned Ham gave you good advice on how to get accommodation for the Element 1 Test If your are serious about wanting to upgrade. Of course they hope you are just talking smack. You responses seem to sound like you are not really interested. If this is not the case then simple say " Thanks, I didn't think about that" "I will give it a try"... That makes you the good guy again and it would be up to Charles to publicly or privately make good on his offer of help and maybe even apologize for the "wipe" comment.

Ball is in your court K3DAV... a lot of NCTs are hoping you step up.

[KD5NCO]

Charlie just so we are clear on this

I do not think the PUBLIC displays here, and the animosity they cause, by either side is healthy.

I hold you to a much higher standard. So should you, you have earned the respect and status of the class you hold. In my humble opinion you threw it all away when you started in with the tagging, baiting, and deliberate antagonizing.

I have clearly stated that I like and respect your postings in other forums on other topics. I have learned quite a bit from your thoughtful and complete explanations of things. I tend to agree with some (not all) of your opinions on "current events" like ARRL and Spectrum management

It should not be too much to expect that you and a few others here could try and read all the words of folks like Adam, Steve, and myself with an open mind and understand that we are trying to say the elimination of the Element 1 Test is NOT the end of CW or the ARS...

I think I can safely say that "we" believe that this constant baiting and bickering is causing serious damage. Life long pain and hate is happening right here on QRZ in thousands of postings on the code/no code issue.

Considering the other thread on the Bandwidth or the one on BPL, I am starting to think maybe the ARRL is deliberately pitting us against one another to keep focus off more serious issues.

You and I need to stop sparing on this..we both have the same desire; for the ARS to flourish. We are not that far apart on how it should be done. In fact most of the no-code folks you "tag" are the same licensed members here who fully agree that the current test(s) is/are a joke.

The folks you so belittle with the "wipe" tag (and lazy underachievers do exist, that I do not deny) are so few that they alone should not be a consideration in these exchanges. You and others over the last three years did a poor job of communicating her on QRZ. My take is that you (and others) managed to LUMP, directly or by inference, ALL NCTs in your (collective your) narrow category of "Wipe" or other equally belittling names.

There are a LOT of us that object to that false characterization.

Anyway Charlie that is as far as I can go sticking my hand out to you.

[kc5vdj]

Quote[/b] ]"There really is no news," an FCC Wireless Telecommunications Bureau staffer
told ARRL this week on background. "We certainly hope to release WT Docket
05-235 sometime this year, but we're not making any predictions at this
time. We certainly are not saving up any big announcements for Dayton
Hamvention."

Hmmmm... I see you come from the FAUX News Channel school of "Journalism"...

Background is one step beyond "Off the record". When someone tells you something on background, reporting it is a violation of trust.

On the main issue, I urge everyone here interested in this issue, on either side, to read the following: http://www.princeton.edu/~globsec/publications/effects/effects.shtml
in particular chapters ten and eleven. Keep in mind that what is compiled there is for single bursts.

We have an insane leader making all sorts of threats against a country supplying oil to four heavily armed nuclear armed nations. As a result, that country is probably building nukes of it's own. If we were to attack that country, it's a safe assumption that it would rapidly degrade into a global thermonuclear war. This is the reality of today. The reality of tomorrow, should we make it that far, could be a Russian nationalist like Zhirinovsky taking power in the Russian Federation as a result of our insane leader's expansionist policies, and people like Zhirinovsky have openly threatened to use nukes against us in the past.

The threat of Nuclear war is now higher than it was during the cold war, and we don't have many friends out there.

Do we really want to give up the only means of communication that would be reliable in a 5000-10000 burst environment when help for our local communities would be paramount, just so some dyslexic Neocons and Nazis can get on HF?

We need to keep the Morse traning requirement as a matter of National Security. It would help reopen lines of communication when communication is most needed. It would help obtain help for our local communities from other communities, even if it can't get help from the Government when that time comes, and mark my words, it will come. There are many Christians that still pray for that day to come, and actively push to make it happen, even at the highest levels of government http://www.apostoliccongress.com/ for instance...and that's just for starters.

The bottom line is that so long as insane leaders exist on this planet, the threat of thermonuclear war exists. Morse by CW is not only the easiest way to regain comms after it happens, it must be retained as a training requirement for that event.

For those that want to poo-poo me for bringing up this as a justification for retaining the Morse requirement, all I have to say is, that if you think it should be trashed, then your community will deserve all the help you can muster (none) when it happens (and it will happen, sooner or later).

Good luck getting your PSK rig running, or even SSB or FM going when it happens. Your community may not survive that long without help when it happens. CW will be possible though.

KC5VDJ
According to Rasmussin, Gallup, Ipsos, and Zogby, an average of 29% of Americans disapprove of what is said in the target of this link. (http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/gwbush_store/gwb107)

[KD5NCO]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,11:35)]
Quote[/b] ]NCO: Why you are so nasty and mean spirited on this subject is beyond me.
Are you fair minded or are you not? #Tell me how you justify that statement and say nothing about your pals on QRZ. #I've patiently explained my thoughts to you on posting call and class, and you're crawfishing.

Fred?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

I stand by the observation, Charlie... in context I pointed out your penchant for belittling and antagonizing fellow ARS members. I pointed out that on other subjects you are more then capable of adult conversation, detailed explanations, good articulation of a point of view, willing to back up opinions and statements with background info and facts... so I am curious about "Why you are so nasty and mean spirited on this subject".

Nope I re-read my long thoughts and don't see any crayfishing... and I think I try to be fair minded...doesn't always come through. #I have a lot of years in the military and was never known to have much tact. So perhaps it is just the way I say what I think.

[K3DAV]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,14:26)]DAV,

I called the ARRL for you and spoke to the VEC office. #The examiners are required to make an accomodation for you. #You should contact the lead examiner in your area. #What they will often do (I was told by the ARRL) is arrange for a sending test for you. #Instead of having to receive the code, you simply SEND. #Learning to send is very much more simple than receiving as you can simply memorize the characters with no need to listen to them.

Other accomodations could be made as well up to and including the blinking light. #If the examiner will not make an accomodation, call and report them to the ARRL VEC office at 860-594-0300. #They will straighten out the matter for you.

If you arrange for a "sending" test and need letter groupings to help you learn the code easier, I can provide them for you.
OK Charlie. Since you have made an effort to be civil, I will do the same and try to make you understand this.

There is an old proverb that say's, "You can never fully appreciate an ability, until you have completely lost it."

You seem to think that I am lazy and don't want to learn the code. You call me a Gimme Gimme. And you have no clue as to how hard I have tried through many years to learn CW, and failed horribly.

As I mentioned before, I have a pulsing ringing in my ears, that make it impossible to distinguish dots from dashes. Now here is the part that most of you don't want to understand. If I were 100% deaf, I would be able to learn the code by other visual means. But when I have tried to learn code, I keep hearing a very distracting pulsing beep in my ears that confuses what I am trying to think of as dots and dashes. That is something that a deaf person doesn't have to contend with.

You can argue until the earth blows up, but no matter what you want to think, believe, or argue, there really are some people that just can not learn CW.

I have been in contact with the FCC themselves, and there is nothing they will do to help. The rules say that they will do wahtever is necessary, and make any adjustments needed to test me for element 1, but if I don't know CW, there is nothing to be done.

Now if that is too much for the Pro-code crowd to understand, then I feel damned sorry for you.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KD5NCO @ Feb. 28 2006,12:52)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,11:35)]
Quote[/b] ]NCO: Why you are so nasty and mean spirited on this subject is beyond me.
Are you fair minded or are you not? Tell me how you justify that statement and say nothing about your pals on QRZ. I've patiently explained my thoughts to you on posting call and class, and you're crawfishing.

Fred?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

I stand by the observation, Charlie... in context I pointed out your penchant for belittling and antagonizing fellow ARS members. I pointed out that on other subjects you are more then capable of adult conversation, detailed explanations, good articulation of a point of view, willing to back up opinions and statements with background info and facts... so I am curious about "Why you are so nasty and mean spirited on this subject".

Nope I re-read my long thoughts and don't see any crayfishing... and I think I try to be fair minded...doesn't always come through. I have a lot of years in the military and was never known to have much tact. So perhaps it is just the way I say what I think.
Fred, Lets be serious a minute. If an Amateur gets upset at seeing his call and license class posted in response to his post on QRZ, then the problem is his/hers, not mine. I have taken the time to explain why I do it very clearly. I will continue to do it. As an Amateur, if seeing your license class embarrasses you do something about it! Upgrade.

The OF/YP(pronounced "wipe") labels were not of my creation. I remind you that the creator has YP standing for "young punks". Why would you object to the characterization of a YP pronounced as "wipe" referring to a "punk"? But in the name of cooperation, I will stop mentioning "wipes" as long as the OF/YP thing is scrapped for the stupidity it was.

I do congratulate you for your admonishment of your friends. I notice that while I was on the phone with the ARRL for him, DAV was considering that he would ban me if he were in charge. LOL!! For the record again, I have stated to the powers here at QRZ that I would NEVER want to be the cause of someone being banned. I don't take these discussions that seriously to be offended easily.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,13:00)]OK Charlie. Since you have made an effort to be civil, I will do the same and try to make you understand this...

...As I mentioned before, I have a pulsing ringing in my ears, that make it impossible to distinguish dots from dashes. Now here is the part that most of you don't want to understand. If I were 100% deaf, I would be able to learn the code by other visual means. But when I have tried to learn code, I keep hearing a very distracting pulsing beep in my ears that confuses what I am trying to think of as dots and dashes. That is something that a deaf person doesn't have to contend with.

You can argue until the earth blows up, but no matter what you want to think, believe, or argue, there really are some people that just can not learn CW.

I have been in contact with the FCC themselves, and there is nothing they will do to help. The rules say that they will do wahtever is necessary, and make any adjustments needed to test me for element 1, but if I don't know CW, there is nothing to be done.
Maybe you missed the sending test part. You don't have to listen to code to learn code. In the sending test, you send code, not receive it. To prepare you could simply memorize the code characters without ever having to listen to them. Can you can tell the difference between a dot and dash visually?

[ab0wr]

Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,13:00)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,14:26)]DAV,

I called the ARRL for you and spoke to the VEC office. #The examiners are required to make an accomodation for you. #You should contact the lead examiner in your area. #What they will often do (I was told by the ARRL) is arrange for a sending test for you. #Instead of having to receive the code, you simply SEND. #Learning to send is very much more simple than receiving as you can simply memorize the characters with no need to listen to them.

Other accomodations could be made as well up to and including the blinking light. #If the examiner will not make an accomodation, call and report them to the ARRL VEC office at 860-594-0300. #They will straighten out the matter for you.

If you arrange for a "sending" test and need letter groupings to help you learn the code easier, I can provide them for you.
OK Charlie. #Since you have made an effort to be civil, I will do the same and try to make you understand this.

There is an old proverb that say's, "You can never fully appreciate an ability, until you have completely lost it."

You seem to think that I am lazy and don't want to learn the code. #You call me a Gimme Gimme. #And you have no clue as to how hard I have tried through many years to learn CW, and failed horribly.

As I mentioned before, I have a pulsing ringing in my ears, that make it impossible to distinguish dots from dashes. #Now here is the part that most of you don't want to understand. #If I were 100% deaf, I would be able to learn the code by other visual means. #But when I have tried to learn code, I keep hearing a very distracting pulsing beep in my ears that confuses what I am trying to think of as dots and dashes. #That is something that a deaf person doesn't have to contend with.

You can argue until the earth blows up, but no matter what you want to think, believe, or argue, #there really are some people that just can not learn CW. #

I have been in contact with the FCC themselves, and there is nothing they will do to help. #The rules say that they will do wahtever is necessary, and make any adjustments needed to test me for element 1, but if I don't know CW, there is nothing to be done.

Now if that is too much for the Pro-code crowd to understand, then I feel damned sorry for you.
As Charlie and I have both told you:

"Instead of having to receive the code, you simply SEND. Learning to send is very much more simple than receiving as you can simply memorize the characters with no need to listen to them."

All you would have to do is memorize about 36 different left/right combinations to perform the sending test with a keyer that automatically generates the right duration for each element.

For some reason you keep ignoring this while continuing to throw up the excuse that you cannot hear well enough to learn Morse Code.

I've asked you this before and you refused to answer:

Can you tell your left hand from your right hand?

If the answer is yes, then you have no further excuse.

If you can tell your right from your left then it is pretty obvious that the real truth is that you just don't want to expend the work required to learn enough to pass the Morse Code requirement.

If that's the case, so be it. Just wait until they get rid of the Morse Code requirement.

But don't continue to belabor us with the excuse that you *can't* learn enough to pass the test - not when the answer is that you really don't want to.

tim ab0wr

[KI6ADA]

Isn't this suppose to be an open web site, seems like what ever thread I view, I keep seeing the same call signs. Maybe QRZ needs to be an closed website? Well anyway theres allot of great information on QRZ and hopefully the sour apples won't scare away someone cruising the internet about Amateur "Ham" Radio.
Meet me on Echolink, any evening after 4pm PST. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Ka0sab]

From what I can see here on this subject , there are about
3 people that are using this site too argue with each other
and that , it appears to be the most posting here.

Come on fellows let wait and see what the out come from the FCC is. Before we beat each other down to nothing.

Or e-mail each other direct! or take the chance on looking like the Cber's your talking about arguing on the web instead of 11 meters.

Thank you http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[vk3tex]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,13:32)]Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,13:00)]OK Charlie. #Since you have made an effort to be civil, I will do the same and try to make you understand this...

...As I mentioned before, I have a pulsing ringing in my ears, that make it impossible to distinguish dots from dashes. #Now here is the part that most of you don't want to understand. #If I were 100% deaf, I would be able to learn the code by other visual means. #But when I have tried to learn code, I keep hearing a very distracting pulsing beep in my ears that confuses what I am trying to think of as dots and dashes. #That is something that a deaf person doesn't have to contend with.

You can argue until the earth blows up, but no matter what you want to think, believe, or argue, #there really are some people that just can not learn CW. #

I have been in contact with the FCC themselves, and there is nothing they will do to help. #The rules say that they will do wahtever is necessary, and make any adjustments needed to test me for element 1, but if I don't know CW, there is nothing to be done.
Maybe you missed the sending test part. You don't have to listen to code to learn code. In the sending test, you send code, not receive it. To prepare you could simply memorize the code characters without ever having to listen to them. Can you can tell the difference between a dot and dash visually?
Hi Charlie,

You have a very strong point with the "sending" comment. It is a very good idea. I dont know of anyone who cant memorize the letters of the alphabet and associated them with the dits and dahs, but consider a hypothetical:
Dave takes on your idea, and gets the examiner out to test him with the sending test only. Lets say he passes with flying colours.Tapping out a message at 5wpm.
Lets say now he does a visual test aswell with the examiner holding up random flash cards and he has to say the letter or number. Lets say he passes.
Great, he has passed his morse test and has proved to you(and others...) he is NOT a lazy bum!

He now goes home, and wants to use morse but can't because he still is not able to use his EARS to decipher it... He can send ok, but not receive... So what was the point of the exercise? To prove a point to people on this website? He can't practically use CW like everyone else does.
All he can say now is " I have done CW but i can't use it cause of ringing in my ears, but i'm still a good guy cause i made the effort to learn..." Is it all about effort? Don't matter that he won't ever be able to use it again?

I know you can recieve morse on a computer, but it's no use if you can't discerne a signal on the air to tune it in properly....(PC would be a way to get visual on a morse signal, but it needs to be perfectly spaced letters etc for the computer to have any chance of decoding it properly.)

Lets say once he has his CW under his belt, do you have any practical solutions on how he may be able to decode CW visually with his radio gear? Assuming now he knows how to send basically? IF NOT:

Now that he has his CW qualification, but can't use it, wasn't it a waste of time in the first place?

This is not a flame or troll in any way against you Charlie or anyone else, Just some important points that need to be considered.

Have a great day,

Les, #VK3TEX.

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,11:59)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 27 2006,10:51)]Why not take and pass the required test now? #Since you intend to later, your desire to upgrade is clear. #That's laudable. #So why wait? #

Ed
Well Ed, it's like this. #That question has been answered many times in this thread, and the many threads before it. #But when explaining as clear as a bell to the (Pro-Code) group, the explanation falls on deaf ears, and we are called bad names, and have nothing but false accusations thrown at us. #If you need an example of this, just go back to the beginning of this thread and read.

Actually Ed, to answer your question would just start this thread in reruns again. #Once was bad enough. #Only those without prejudice already know and understand the right answer. Those who bicker about keeping a law that we all know is going to change anyway, are not capable of understanding it, and never will.

So when the FCC finally decides to drop the element 1 exam, I and thousands more will take the required test and upgrade quietly. #Then we will start enjoying HF. #If we encounter any of those who just like to cause trouble because of the code thing, then we will just follow my Father's good advice. "Ignore the foolish because they can't help it, and just go forward.

Take care Ed.
k3dav- good post dave ,73 Bill

[KD5NCO]

Les VK3TEX

Very good points, but you gave DAV back a crutch. I fully understand your points but Charlie and Tim have a great fall back that is just as valid. There are examples within our ARS membership of Novices, Tech +, Generals and Extras that the ONLY way they communicate is with Morse Code on CW. Some of them managed to get over some of the most debilitating physical handicaps to do it. Even completely blind and deaf. It can be done and it can be done by the MOST physically impaired of us. Charlie is simply stating that if you WANT something bad enough you can have it. And that is so very true.

I will never argue against that point. Where there is a will there is a way.

My no-code attitude is more pragmatic from an entry level point of view and I believe access to HF (should be limited) should not be predicated in proving proficiency of just one of many different important modes. Test them all or test none is too simplistic but I think giving newcomers a shot at HF from the git go is a good idea. I am for a three tier system with CW proficiency still a requirement for the top ticket.

I think Charlie and others would respect some of the no coders slightly better if they just admitted that they are content to wait.

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Feb. 28 2006,17:37)]Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,11:59)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 27 2006,10:51)]Why not take and pass the required test now? Since you intend to later, your desire to upgrade is clear. That's laudable. So why wait?

Ed
Well Ed, it's like this. That question has been answered many times in this thread, and the many threads before it. But when explaining as clear as a bell to the (Pro-Code) group, the explanation falls on deaf ears, and we are called bad names, and have nothing but false accusations thrown at us. If you need an example of this, just go back to the beginning of this thread and read.

Actually Ed, to answer your question would just start this thread in reruns again. Once was bad enough. Only those without prejudice already know and understand the right answer. Those who bicker about keeping a law that we all know is going to change anyway, are not capable of understanding it, and never will.

So when the FCC finally decides to drop the element 1 exam, I and thousands more will take the required test and upgrade quietly. Then we will start enjoying HF. If we encounter any of those who just like to cause trouble because of the code thing, then we will just follow my Father's good advice. "Ignore the foolish because they can't help it, and just go forward.

Take care Ed.
k3dav- good post dave ,73 Bill
In other words you DON'T want to take the test. You want to take the test that is designed for you.

Yes, I understand perfectly!

Ed

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (vk3tex @ Feb. 28 2006,17:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,13:32)]Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,13:00)]OK Charlie. #Since you have made an effort to be civil, I will do the same and try to make you understand this...

...As I mentioned before, I have a pulsing ringing in my ears, that make it impossible to distinguish dots from dashes. #Now here is the part that most of you don't want to understand. #If I were 100% deaf, I would be able to learn the code by other visual means. #But when I have tried to learn code, I keep hearing a very distracting pulsing beep in my ears that confuses what I am trying to think of as dots and dashes. #That is something that a deaf person doesn't have to contend with.

You can argue until the earth blows up, but no matter what you want to think, believe, or argue, #there really are some people that just can not learn CW. #

I have been in contact with the FCC themselves, and there is nothing they will do to help. #The rules say that they will do wahtever is necessary, and make any adjustments needed to test me for element 1, but if I don't know CW, there is nothing to be done.
Maybe you missed the sending test part. You don't have to listen to code to learn code. In the sending test, you send code, not receive it. To prepare you could simply memorize the code characters without ever having to listen to them. Can you can tell the difference between a dot and dash visually?
Hi Charlie,

You have a very strong point with the "sending" comment. It is a very good idea. I dont know of anyone who cant memorize the letters of the alphabet and associated them with the dits and dahs, but consider a hypothetical:
Dave takes on your idea, and gets the examiner out to test him with the sending test only. Lets say he passes with flying colours.Tapping out a message at 5wpm.
Lets say now he does a visual test aswell with the examiner holding up random flash cards and he has to say the letter or number. Lets say he passes.
Great, he has passed his morse test and has proved to you(and others...) he is NOT a lazy bum!

He now goes home, and wants to use morse but can't because he still is not able to use his EARS to decipher it... He can send ok, but not receive... So what was the point of the exercise? To prove a point to people on this website? He can't practically use CW like everyone else does.
All he can say now is " I have done CW but i can't use it cause of ringing in my ears, but i'm still a good guy cause i made the effort to learn..." Is it all about effort? Don't matter that he won't ever be able to use it again?

I know you can recieve morse on a computer, but it's no use if you can't discerne a signal on the air to tune it in properly....(PC would be a way to get visual on a morse signal, but it needs to be perfectly spaced letters etc for the computer to have any chance of decoding it properly.)

Lets say once he has his CW under his belt, do you have any practical solutions on how he may be able to decode CW visually with his radio gear? Assuming now he knows how to send basically? IF NOT:

Now that he has his CW qualification, but can't use it, wasn't it a waste of time in the first place?

This is not a flame or troll in any way against you Charlie or anyone else, Just some important points that need to be considered.

Have a great day,

Les, #VK3TEX.
vk3tex-sir a good post , I thought about this to ,73 Bill

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KD5NCO @ Feb. 28 2006,17:44)]Les VK3TEX

Very good points, but you gave DAV back a crutch. I fully understand your points but Charlie and Tim have a great fall back that is just as valid. There are examples within our ARS membership of Novices, Tech +, Generals and Extras that the ONLY way they communicate is with Morse Code on CW. Some of them managed to get over some of the most debilitating physical handicaps to do it. Even completely blind and deaf. It can be done and it can be done by the MOST physically impaired of us. Charlie is simply stating that if you WANT something bad enough you can have it. And that is so very true.

I will never argue against that point. Where there is a will there is a way.

My no-code attitude is more pragmatic from an entry level point of view and I believe access to HF (should be limited) should not be predicated in proving proficiency of just one of many different important modes. Test them all or test none is too simplistic but I think giving newcomers a shot at HF from the git go is a good idea. I am for a three tier system with CW proficiency still a requirement for the top ticket.

I think Charlie and others would respect some of the no coders slightly better if they just admitted that they are content to wait.
We agree on alot here. There is also something called a "tactile pad" that you place hand or fingers on and FEEL the code. I would be glad to call the VE (and I am sure Tim would too) for DAV once we knew what he wanted to do to try to help set it up. My point was that if he wants to do it, we can find a way. If he doesn't then do as you say and say nope, I am going to wait. But the issue is not to change the rules based on conditions that have solutions.

DAV, please understand that I solve problems for a living. The harder the problem the more determined I am to find a solution. This in no way should diminish your right to chose what you want to do. If I were really trying to be a jerk, I'd paint you into a corner. But that's not my intention. Hopefully we've given you a few things to think about.

VXE: Like many you look at the taking of a telegraphy test as a single event. Instead, we're taking the test to show a skill but we're also agreeing that even if we never use the code, we met the requirement. We didn't diminish the service just so we could get in easier. For that reason, every Amateur that takes the test today becomes part of a larger group that preserves standards for the future. I know this means nothing to most no coders. Which, after all, is the issue today.

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 28 2006,17:58)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Feb. 28 2006,17:37)]Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,11:59)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 27 2006,10:51)]Why not take and pass the required test now? #Since you intend to later, your desire to upgrade is clear. #That's laudable. #So why wait? #

Ed
Well Ed, it's like this. #That question has been answered many times in this thread, and the many threads before it. #But when explaining as clear as a bell to the (Pro-Code) group, the explanation falls on deaf ears, and we are called bad names, and have nothing but false accusations thrown at us. #If you need an example of this, just go back to the beginning of this thread and read.

Actually Ed, to answer your question would just start this thread in reruns again. #Once was bad enough. #Only those without prejudice already know and understand the right answer. Those who bicker about keeping a law that we all know is going to change anyway, are not capable of understanding it, and never will.

So when the FCC finally decides to drop the element 1 exam, I and thousands more will take the required test and upgrade quietly. #Then we will start enjoying HF. #If we encounter any of those who just like to cause trouble because of the code thing, then we will just follow my Father's good advice. "Ignore the foolish because they can't help it, and just go forward.

Take care Ed.
k3dav- good post dave ,73 Bill
In other words you DON'T want to take the test. #You want to take the test that is designed for you.

Yes, I understand perfectly!

Ed
w5htw - well mr Ed for the last 10m I have Been studying the trash code , and took the test 3 times and still have not past the trash, I go thru the code every morning and every evening , I can copy it Real good at 13 wpm with 5wpm spacing But when I go to take the test they send it at 5wpm and it dont sound Right that way to me so I am going Back and see if I can get the trash at 5wpm ,so dont tell me I have not made a effort to learn the trash ,73 mr know it all , Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ab0wr]

Quote[/b] ]vk3tex:
Now that he has his CW qualification, but can't use it, wasn't it a waste of time in the first place?

Why is it a waste of time? He now has his General license, access to all of the HF bands, and has extended his measure.

It's like I tell my Boy Scouts, once you've lived through several days of rain, cold, and mud and survived (hopefully survived well based on what we try to teach them!) you have a measure of yourself. You need never again fear that type of situation.

tim ab0wr

[AC0GT]

I'd like to take a moment and thank everyone that has posted to this thread for providing me hours of entertainment. I've had a smile on my face for days just thinking about what I've read and what I might read once I get home from work to see what has been posted through the day.

I take a sort of twisted pleasure in all of this. If the no-coders are right that the FCC dropping the Morse code testing will revitalize Amateur radio then I win. If the pro-coders are right that the CBers and freebanders will flood the frequencies with profanities, music, kilowatt transmitters, etc. so they can't get a dit in edgewise then they lose.

Heads I win, tails you lose. That just brings a warm fuzzy feeling in my twisted way of thinking. The only way you can disappoint is to stop posting, which I doubt will happen any time soon.

My only concern is how are the pro-coders going to measure the worth of a ham next year when the FCC drops the code knowledge requirement? They will be unable to tell just by call sign any more if a person has passed the FCC test. What about in five years when codeless Amateurs make up about 5% of the licensed Extras? How will they handle this ten years from now when probably 20% of the Extras haven't taken a Morse code test? That is assuming, of course, they survive the heart attacks and suicidal tendencies brought on by the FCC dropping Morse code testing.

What also pleases me is that even if the FCC does not drop Morse code testing this year the number of licensed Technicians will probably outnumber all other license classes combined, if current trends continue, in less than five years.

So, carry on. (As if I have to say that.) This thread has got to be worth another week of enjoyment.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] ]LXK: If the pro-coders are right that the CBers and freebanders will flood the frequencies with profanities, music, kilowatt transmitters, etc. so they can't get a dit in edgewise then they lose.

Heads I win, tails you lose. That just brings a warm fuzzy feeling in my twisted way of thinking. The only way you can disappoint is to stop posting, which I doubt will happen any time soon.

Interesting idea. Not caring what happens to amateur radio as long as you get what you want. Sounds familiar...

Quote[/b] ]LXK: My only concern is how are the pro-coders going to measure the worth of a ham next year when the FCC drops the code knowledge requirement? They will be unable to tell just by call sign any more if a person has passed the FCC test.

I am sure that whatever the measure of a good Amateur may be in the future, it will never be how much someone got for nothing or how they whined their way into an upgrade. My prediction is that those that assume a rule change will bring you respect and self worth will be sadly disappointed. And, those that take the time to set positive goals and accomplish them will find respect from peers.

Honestly, I hope everyone finds happiness in what they do in Amateur Radio today and in the future.

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Feb. 28 2006,18:20)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 28 2006,17:58)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Feb. 28 2006,17:37)]Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,11:59)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 27 2006,10:51)]Why not take and pass the required test now? Since you intend to later, your desire to upgrade is clear. That's laudable. So why wait?

Ed
Well Ed, it's like this. That question has been answered many times in this thread, and the many threads before it. But when explaining as clear as a bell to the (Pro-Code) group, the explanation falls on deaf ears, and we are called bad names, and have nothing but false accusations thrown at us. If you need an example of this, just go back to the beginning of this thread and read.

Actually Ed, to answer your question would just start this thread in reruns again. Once was bad enough. Only those without prejudice already know and understand the right answer. Those who bicker about keeping a law that we all know is going to change anyway, are not capable of understanding it, and never will.

So when the FCC finally decides to drop the element 1 exam, I and thousands more will take the required test and upgrade quietly. Then we will start enjoying HF. If we encounter any of those who just like to cause trouble because of the code thing, then we will just follow my Father's good advice. "Ignore the foolish because they can't help it, and just go forward.

Take care Ed.
k3dav- good post dave ,73 Bill
In other words you DON'T want to take the test. You want to take the test that is designed for you.

Yes, I understand perfectly!

Ed
w5htw - well mr Ed for the last 10m I have Been studying the trash code , and took the test 3 times and still have not past the trash, I go thru the code every morning and every evening , I can copy it Real good at 13 wpm with 5wpm spacing But when I go to take the test they send it at 5wpm and it dont sound Right that way to me so I am going Back and see if I can get the trash at 5wpm ,so dont tell me I have not made a effort to learn the trash ,73 mr know it all , Bill :D
"trash?" Well at least now we understand your attitude. Thanks for making that clear! No darned wonder you can't learn it! Definitely explains it.

Hang in there! You're going to get your gift soon. And you will be truly proud.

Again, thank you for explaining in such clear terms.

Ed

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,19:54)]I am sure that whatever the measure of a good Amateur may be in the future, it will never be how much someone got for nothing or how they whined their way into an upgrade. My prediction is that those that assume a rule change will bring you respect and self worth will be sadly disappointed. And, those that take the time to set positive goals and accomplish them will find respect from peers.
The problem, Charles, is no one wants pride of accomplishment. They just "want."

Some of us will be able to tell the difference between the ones who waited for code testing to go away, because we'll be operating CW. Where they can't.

As I have said before, though, it really doesn't matter to me if the Morse testing is removed. What does matter is the attitudes of our society - is a good word "parasites?" - who want everything - not just ham radio - made easier. That's rather frightening for the future.

In ham radio, though, it has been dying a rapid death over the past decade anyway, so a bit of accelerant on the flames won't hurt at all. The lazy are not aware (nor do they care) that hundreds of thousands before them took THE test, as it was presented, and did not petition to have the test made easier. They simply did as Americans used to do; they met the challenge. I think meeting challenges is something from the past. That's why we graduate people from our schools who can't write or spell.

Ed

[K7JEM]

The only code test I ever took was in 1974, I thought it was stupid then, even more stupid (inane?) today. Why the hell am I taking a test for some archaic form of communication that I will never use? If people want to use CW, go for it. If other people think its useless, that's fine too. There is plenty of room in ham radio for everyone.

Why does everyone get bent out of shape? It's going to happen, if not tomorrow or the next day, then next month or next year; it is inevitable.

I get so tired of people saying "you want something for nothing", that is so bogus and demeaning that I cant express with words the lack of mentality that these people must have. If they told you that you had to eat a jar of pickles to get a ham license, would you do it cause everyone else did? Or would you question why?

No-one is getting "something for nothing". I did, earlier in my ham career. In the late 80's they gave 10 M SSB to techs. We had to do nothing to get the upgrade, absolutely nothing. Do I feel bad about it? No, that's called progress and change.

I got my First Class Radiotelephone license in 1978. A couple of years later, they eliminated it and gave me a GROL, same as the second class operators got. Did I whine and complain that someone got something for nothing? No, I just went on about my business. Did I ask people with a GROL if they really had a second, or did they have a "First" like me? And what about all these newbies with a GROL, do I complain and belittle them, ("Oh the REAL test we had to take back in the 70's was much harder.") no, they took the test that they were given (whether they waited for it or not is inmaterial).

We belong to a great hobby and (argueably) a great brotherhood of radio aficionados, why let a code test break us apart?

Joe

[n0klu]

I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. I'm having way too much fun on 6M to even worry about upgrading for now. I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? In the last month I've already made 54 contacts on 6m... you guys need to take a deep breath and pick up the ol' microphone ( or Key) and make some real contacts... Oh I know some of you have made more contacts but It hasn't been open often and I do this for my own enjoyment, not for anyone else's Bloviation of consternation. The FCC will do what the FCC wants to do. We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. The FCC don't read these forums anyway... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(humm wonder why my little smiley didn't show up?? Oh well.) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KI6ADA]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. . I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? . We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. ... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(humm wonder why my little smiley didn't show up?? Oh well.) #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I concur, I receive enjoyment everytime I log on. There is allot of information to be shared. The humor is reading the rebuttles of CW. I am learning morse code, so until I pass my test and learn how to send I have no standing. Nevertheless like in my earlier posts, I am ready for pay per view. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Please entertain the Ham radio world with your rantings, maybe somebody will write a book??

GotCha!!

[N5FOG]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 27 2006,15:32)]Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,13:00)]OK Charlie. #Since you have made an effort to be civil, I will do the same and try to make you understand this...

...As I mentioned before, I have a pulsing ringing in my ears, that make it impossible to distinguish dots from dashes. #Now here is the part that most of you don't want to understand. #If I were 100% deaf, I would be able to learn the code by other visual means. #But when I have tried to learn code, I keep hearing a very distracting pulsing beep in my ears that confuses what I am trying to think of as dots and dashes. #That is something that a deaf person doesn't have to contend with.

You can argue until the earth blows up, but no matter what you want to think, believe, or argue, #there really are some people that just can not learn CW. #

I have been in contact with the FCC themselves, and there is nothing they will do to help. #The rules say that they will do wahtever is necessary, and make any adjustments needed to test me for element 1, but if I don't know CW, there is nothing to be done.
Maybe you missed the sending test part. You don't have to listen to code to learn code. In the sending test, you send code, not receive it. To prepare you could simply memorize the code characters without ever having to listen to them. Can you can tell the difference between a dot and dash visually?
I see the ole Chuckster saying that passing a sending test was easy just learn the dits and dahs and send away. I tried this and asked several VE's in my area about a sending test. I was greeting by several saying its illegal and they would have no part of it, a couple said it maybe legal but in their opinion it is "cheating" and wouldn't have any part of it. Another VE team that set a really fine example told me it was legal, but none of them could “copy code worth a crap anymore”.

See our system isn’t accommodating at all when I have a VE tell me it’s “cheating” or its illegal even after I showed him the paperwork from the W5YI group that says it is acceptable. But I must admit the best/saddest example of our system is the VE team (which is supposed to set an exam for ham radio operators) tells me none of them can copy the code anymore since they haven’t used it in so long. #That statement right there proves the code isn’t anything more than an aging hazing ritual.

And those OF’s that complain about the “dumbing down” of Ham Radio, Look around its your 20wpm brethren that are behind it writing the questions for the pools. After all look at the board of directors of the W5YI group most of them are 20wpm EXTRA’S. Hell the PRESIDENT of NO-CODE International is a old school 20wpm EXTRA and most of the directors of NCI are old school EXTRAS also. Maybe they know something yall don’t

When I hear the OF’s keep saying that dropping the code is going to tear Ham Radio apart and turn it into CB radio or that the code test is a good test of moral character, or proves someone will be a good operator it reminds me of a couple of famous quotes.

“Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth” - - -FDR

And when the code is gone and the sky doesn't fall and Ham Radio doesn't turn into CB.

"The truth will make you free, but first it will make you miserable." - - - Tom DeMarco #

The last quote is especially for the Chuckster http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif



Eric Kc5Fog

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (KI6ADA @ Mar. 01 2006,07:30)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. . I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? . We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. ... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I concur, I receive enjoyment every time I log on. There is allot of information to be shared. The humor is reading the rebuttals of CW. I am learning Morse Code, so until I pass my test and learn how to send I have no standing.
No standing?
Do you need someone else's approval? Did you become a ham to become something in someone else's eyes, or for your own enjoyment? If you study beyond the material required for testing you become a better ham operator. If you are courteous you are a good operator. Keep learning more and more technical material as you are able to. Not just the test materials. Code is just ONE aspect of ham radio.

Download some of the materials I have put up on the web for folks to "continue" their education. Check out My ham radio study materials (http://www.rollanet.org/~n0klu/Ham_Radio/) they are FREE to all who want them, that's why I put them up there.

Good luck see you on 6m sometime maybe. I hang out on 50.1250 Mhz

:

[KI6ADA]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 01 2006,02:10)]Quote[/b] (KI6ADA @ Mar. 01 2006,07:30)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. . I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? . We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. #... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I concur, I receive enjoyment every time I log on. There is allot of information to be shared. The humor is reading the rebuttals of CW. I am learning Morse Code, so until I pass my test and learn how to send I have no standing.
No standing?
Do you need someone else's approval? Did you become a ham to become something in someone else's eyes, or for your own enjoyment? If you study beyond the material required for testing you become a better ham operator. If you are courteous you are a good operator. Keep learning more and more technical material as you are able to. Not just the test materials. Code is just ONE aspect of ham radio.

Download some of the materials I have put up on the web for folks to "continue" their education. Check out My ham radio study materials (http://www.rollanet.org/~n0klu/Ham_Radio/) they are FREE to all who want them, that's why I put them up there.

Good luck see you on 6m sometime maybe. I hang out on 50.1250 Mhz

:
I meant that I could not speak up about the CW issue. Its unfair to give an biased opinion on something I have not yet experienced. I am interested in all aspects of radio. I was just reading about Packet and SSTV on FM. Thanks for the input, I don't have 6 meters (yet), I am hoping soon! 73 and I will be around to enjoy the posts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KI6ADA]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 01 2006,02:10)]Download some of the materials I have put up on the web for folks to "continue" their education. Check out My ham radio study materials (http://www.rollanet.org/~n0klu/Ham_Radio/) they are FREE to all who want them, that's why I put them up there.

Good luck see you on 6m sometime maybe. I hang out on 50.1250 Mhz

:
Great stuff, I will bookkmark, I am getting ready to log off for tonight 73, Steve http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N9TGW]

I've had the answer for this code/nocode issue since the requirement went to 5wpm. The original idea behind the nocode tech was to encourage new hams and to entice their advancement. It backfired. It isnt easy to build a stable VHF transmitter/receiver set. So learning is stifled. HF rigs however ARE easier. So WHY NOT a nocode General? #By sheer contact alone, the curiosity generated will cause the study of Morse to be encouraged. But really what about the higher levels of licenses already attained? And the dummying up of the license tests??? To that I say use the current extra test with a 5wpm element as a return to ADVANCED and a return to a true test for extra with a 13wpm code requirement. NOW we will see some encouragement to advance, learn the code and a return to technical expertice. I myself am a #retired Electronics Engineer, And let me tell you, as far as the new batch of extras go, for the most part, I wouldnt even let them change the the battery in my Maglight Solitaire. Why havent I upgraded? CW gives me clinical migraine headaches. But thats my burden and not the big picture.

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 28 2006,20:09)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Feb. 28 2006,18:20)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 28 2006,17:58)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Feb. 28 2006,17:37)]Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 28 2006,11:59)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 27 2006,10:51)]Why not take and pass the required test now? #Since you intend to later, your desire to upgrade is clear. #That's laudable. #So why wait? #

Ed
Well Ed, it's like this. #That question has been answered many times in this thread, and the many threads before it. #But when explaining as clear as a bell to the (Pro-Code) group, the explanation falls on deaf ears, and we are called bad names, and have nothing but false accusations thrown at us. #If you need an example of this, just go back to the beginning of this thread and read.

Actually Ed, to answer your question would just start this thread in reruns again. #Once was bad enough. #Only those without prejudice already know and understand the right answer. Those who bicker about keeping a law that we all know is going to change anyway, are not capable of understanding it, and never will.

So when the FCC finally decides to drop the element 1 exam, I and thousands more will take the required test and upgrade quietly. #Then we will start enjoying HF. #If we encounter any of those who just like to cause trouble because of the code thing, then we will just follow my Father's good advice. "Ignore the foolish because they can't help it, and just go forward.

Take care Ed.
k3dav- good post dave ,73 Bill
In other words you DON'T want to take the test. #You want to take the test that is designed for you.

Yes, I understand perfectly!

Ed
w5htw - well mr Ed for the last 10m I have Been studying the trash code , and took the test 3 times and still have not past the trash, I go thru the code #every morning and every evening , I can copy it Real good at 13 wpm #with 5wpm spacing #But when I go to take the test they send it at 5wpm #and it dont sound Right that way #to me so I am going Back and see if I can get the trash #at 5wpm ,so dont tell me I have not made a effort to #learn the trash ,73 #mr know it all , Bill http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
"trash?" #Well at least now we understand your attitude. #Thanks for making that clear! #No darned wonder you can't learn it! # Definitely explains it. #

Hang in there! #You're going to get your gift soon. #And you will be truly proud. #

Again, thank you for explaining in such clear terms. #

Ed
w5htw- well sir thats the way I see it , ( you may not see it that way and thats good if you dont all I can say is enjoy it ) But as for as me you can take it and stick it where the sun dont shine , and even whin I get it ,I am still 100% for the Requierment to Be droped the fcc is doing the Right thing ,I think , are you happy now that I am learning your trash code , you done it and now I am trying to do it ,and talk about attitude I see a lot of it in your post to ,But thats ok for you I guess , 73 Bill

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 28 2006,22:58)]The only code test I ever took was in 1974, I thought it was stupid then, even more stupid (inane?) today. Why the hell am I taking a test for some archaic form of communication that I will never use? If people want to use CW, go for it. If other people think its useless, that's fine too. There is plenty of room in ham radio for everyone.

Why does everyone get bent out of shape? It's going to happen, if not tomorrow or the next day, then next month or next year; it is inevitable.

I get so tired of people saying "you want something for nothing", that is so bogus and demeaning that I cant express with words the lack of mentality that these people must have. If they told you that you had to eat a jar of pickles to get a ham license, would you do it cause everyone else did? Or would you question why?

No-one is getting "something for nothing". I did, earlier in my ham career. In the late 80's they gave 10 M SSB to techs. We had to do nothing to get the upgrade, absolutely nothing. Do I feel bad about it? No, that's called progress and change.

I got my First Class Radiotelephone license in 1978. A couple of years later, they eliminated it and gave me a GROL, same as the second class operators got. Did I whine and complain that someone got something for nothing? No, I just went on about my business. Did I ask people with a GROL if they really had a second, or did they have a "First" like me? And what about all these newbies with a GROL, do I complain and belittle them, ("Oh the REAL test we had to take back in the 70's was much harder.") no, they took the test that they were given (whether they waited for it or not is inmaterial).

We belong to a great hobby and (argueably) a great brotherhood of radio aficionados, why let a code test break us apart?

Joe
k7jem- joe good post here we need a lot more hams like you , we would not see all this that you are seeing Right now if we did ,But the only way ham Radio will ever change is these kind of people will have to die out , some hams in the future may get to enjoy ham Radio with out these kind of people sluring them or calling them names ,I hope I get to see it But it may Be after my time , But I hope not ,73 good luck Bill

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 01 2006,02:10)]Quote[/b] (KI6ADA @ Mar. 01 2006,07:30)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. . I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? . We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. #... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I concur, I receive enjoyment every time I log on. There is allot of information to be shared. The humor is reading the rebuttals of CW. I am learning Morse Code, so until I pass my test and learn how to send I have no standing.
No standing?
Do you need someone else's approval? Did you become a ham to become something in someone else's eyes, or for your own enjoyment? If you study beyond the material required for testing you become a better ham operator. If you are courteous you are a good operator. Keep learning more and more technical material as you are able to. Not just the test materials. Code is just ONE aspect of ham radio.

Download some of the materials I have put up on the web for folks to "continue" their education. Check out My ham radio study materials (http://www.rollanet.org/~n0klu/Ham_Radio/) they are FREE to all who want them, that's why I put them up there.

Good luck see you on 6m sometime maybe. I hang out on 50.1250 Mhz

:
n0klu - mike has 6m open up lately , if its going to it should start soon ,do you talk on 2m ssB its good to when it opens up, I have qsl cards from your state on 2 m ssb to hope to hear you on 6 m ,73 Bill

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (KI6ADA @ Mar. 01 2006,00:30)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. . I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? . We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. #... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(humm wonder why my little smiley didn't show up?? Oh well.) #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I concur, I receive enjoyment everytime I log on. There is allot of information to be shared. The humor is reading the rebuttles of CW. I am learning morse code, so until I pass my test and learn how to send I have no standing. Nevertheless like in my earlier posts, I am ready for pay per view. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Please entertain the Ham radio world with your rantings, maybe somebody will write a book??

GotCha!!
ki6ada - sir what time do you get on encolink I look for your call last night But did not see it ,73 Bill

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (Kc5fog @ Mar. 01 2006,01:35)]I see the ole Chuckster saying that passing a sending test was easy just learn the dits and dahs and send away. I tried this and asked several VE's in my area about a sending test. I was greeting by several saying its illegal and they would have no part of it, a couple said it maybe legal but in their opinion it is "cheating" and wouldn't have any part of it. Another VE team that set a really fine example told me it was legal, but none of them could “copy code worth a crap anymore”.

See our system isn’t accommodating at all when I have a VE tell me it’s “cheating” or its illegal even after I showed him the paperwork from the W5YI group that says it is acceptable. But I must admit the best/saddest example of our system is the VE team (which is supposed to set an exam for ham radio operators) tells me none of them can copy the code anymore since they haven’t used it in so long. That statement right there proves the code isn’t anything more than an aging hazing ritual.

And those OF’s that complain about the “dumbing down” of Ham Radio, Look around its your 20wpm brethren that are behind it writing the questions for the pools. After all look at the board of directors of the W5YI group most of them are 20wpm EXTRA’S. Hell the PRESIDENT of NO-CODE International is a old school 20wpm EXTRA and most of the directors of NCI are old school EXTRAS also. Maybe they know something yall don’t

When I hear the OF’s keep saying that dropping the code is going to tear Ham Radio apart and turn it into CB radio or that the code test is a good test of moral character, or proves someone will be a good operator it reminds me of a couple of famous quotes.

“Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth” - - -FDR

And when the code is gone and the sky doesn't fall and Ham Radio doesn't turn into CB.

"The truth will make you free, but first it will make you miserable." - - - Tom DeMarco

The last quote is especially for the Chuckster http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif



Eric Kc5Fog
Eric,

My name is Charlie, not Chuck. Please do not call me Chuck.

Your message is just one long excuse. Poor me.....waaaaaa! One idiot VE and the whole system is not accomodating? ROFL!! So now years of whining, belly-aching, pi$$ing and moaning are validated, eh? Listen how really SAD you sound.

ONE call to the ARRL VEC team would get the ball rolling to solve your problem. The number is in a previous message to DAV. Give me your number in email and I'll have them call YOU if you want to save $$$. Or could it be that you just don't qualify for a disability?

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 28 2006,22:58)]The only code test I ever took was in 1974, I thought it was stupid then, even more stupid (inane?) today. Why the hell am I taking a test for some archaic form of communication that I will never use? If people want to use CW, go for it. If other people think its useless, that's fine too. There is plenty of room in ham radio for everyone.

Why does everyone get bent out of shape? It's going to happen, if not tomorrow or the next day, then next month or next year; it is inevitable.

I get so tired of people saying "you want something for nothing", that is so bogus and demeaning that I cant express with words the lack of mentality that these people must have. If they told you that you had to eat a jar of pickles to get a ham license, would you do it cause everyone else did? Or would you question why?

No-one is getting "something for nothing". I did, earlier in my ham career. In the late 80's they gave 10 M SSB to techs. We had to do nothing to get the upgrade, absolutely nothing. Do I feel bad about it? No, that's called progress and change.

I got my First Class Radiotelephone license in 1978. A couple of years later, they eliminated it and gave me a GROL, same as the second class operators got. Did I whine and complain that someone got something for nothing? No, I just went on about my business. Did I ask people with a GROL if they really had a second, or did they have a "First" like me? And what about all these newbies with a GROL, do I complain and belittle them, ("Oh the REAL test we had to take back in the 70's was much harder.") no, they took the test that they were given (whether they waited for it or not is inmaterial).

We belong to a great hobby and (argueably) a great brotherhood of radio aficionados, why let a code test break us apart?

Joe
Another CW hater. Sad. You took the test because it was the law. International law. Now it is not. And now the FCC will do away with the code test all together or in some form. Like anyone else, when you're mad there is no reasoning that can be done. I know you have your mind made up Joe, but in all honesty, it sounds like it is you with the problem, not Amatur Radio.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. I'm having way too much fun on 6M to even worry about upgrading for now. I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? In the last month I've already made 54 contacts on 6m... you guys need to take a deep breath and pick up the ol' microphone ( or Key) and make some real contacts... Oh I know some of you have made more contacts but It hasn't been open often and I do this for my own enjoyment, not for anyone else's Bloviation of consternation. The FCC will do what the FCC wants to do. We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. The FCC don't read these forums anyway... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(humm wonder why my little smiley didn't show up?? Oh well.) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The pictures won't show up and now your smileyl faces don't show either?.....guess I removed your smiley faces too, eh? DUH! Looks like you are a NCT on the computer too! ROFL!!

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (N9TGW @ Mar. 01 2006,04:28)]I've had the answer for this code/nocode issue since the requirement went to 5wpm. The original idea behind the nocode tech was to encourage new hams and to entice their advancement. It backfired. It isnt easy to build a stable VHF transmitter/receiver set. So learning is stifled. HF rigs however ARE easier. So WHY NOT a nocode General? By sheer contact alone, the curiosity generated will cause the study of Morse to be encouraged. But really what about the higher levels of licenses already attained? And the dummying up of the license tests??? To that I say use the current extra test with a 5wpm element as a return to ADVANCED and a return to a true test for extra with a 13wpm code requirement. NOW we will see some encouragement to advance, learn the code and a return to technical expertice. I myself am a retired Electronics Engineer, And let me tell you, as far as the new batch of extras go, for the most part, I wouldnt even let them change the the battery in my Maglight Solitaire. Why havent I upgraded? CW gives me clinical migraine headaches. But thats my burden and not the big picture.
Yes sir, I went through my "I'm a commercial electronics genius" with a First Class and dumb Amateurs couldn't change the tube in my __ (fill in the blank) phase. I out grew it. It was all just compensating for MY shortcomming in learning the code.

And if you missed it, they make accomodations for disabilities now. You can memorize the dots and dashes without even having to listen to one second of code. Then you can take a simple sending test. Many will let you "send" by alternating a left/right hand movement. Don't take my word, call the ARRL VEC number and ask them. They're nice folks and will do their best to help you.

Good luck!

[n1uq]

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 28 2006,22:58)]The only code test I ever took was in 1974, I thought it was stupid then, even more stupid (inane?) today. Why the hell am I taking a test for some archaic form of communication that I will never use? If people want to use CW, go for it. If other people think its useless, that's fine too. There is plenty of room in ham radio for everyone.

Why does everyone get bent out of shape? It's going to happen, if not tomorrow or the next day, then next month or next year; it is inevitable.

I get so tired of people saying "you want something for nothing", that is so bogus and demeaning that I cant express with words the lack of mentality that these people must have. If they told you that you had to eat a jar of pickles to get a ham license, would you do it cause everyone else did? Or would you question why?

No-one is getting "something for nothing". I did, earlier in my ham career. In the late 80's they gave 10 M SSB to techs. We had to do nothing to get the upgrade, absolutely nothing. Do I feel bad about it? No, that's called progress and change.

I got my First Class Radiotelephone license in 1978. A couple of years later, they eliminated it and gave me a GROL, same as the second class operators got. Did I whine and complain that someone got something for nothing? No, I just went on about my business. Did I ask people with a GROL if they really had a second, or did they have a "First" like me? And what about all these newbies with a GROL, do I complain and belittle them, ("Oh the REAL test we had to take back in the 70's was much harder.") no, they took the test that they were given (whether they waited for it or not is inmaterial).

We belong to a great hobby and (argueably) a great brotherhood of radio aficionados, why let a code test break us apart?

Joe
Hi Joe,

Good post and it would be good for the ARS if we could get along. It's human nature to want your idea to be the accepted holy grail of ARS especially if you don't have any ability to reason and compromise.

Sad, isn't it.

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 01 2006,13:12)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Mar. 01 2006,02:10)]Quote[/b] (KI6ADA @ Mar. 01 2006,07:30)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. . I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? . We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. ... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I concur, I receive enjoyment every time I log on. There is allot of information to be shared. The humor is reading the rebuttals of CW. I am learning Morse Code, so until I pass my test and learn how to send I have no standing.
No standing?
Do you need someone else's approval? Did you become a ham to become something in someone else's eyes, or for your own enjoyment? If you study beyond the material required for testing you become a better ham operator. If you are courteous you are a good operator. Keep learning more and more technical material as you are able to. Not just the test materials. Code is just ONE aspect of ham radio.

Download some of the materials I have put up on the web for folks to "continue" their education. Check out My ham radio study materials (http://www.rollanet.org/~n0klu/Ham_Radio/) they are FREE to all who want them, that's why I put them up there.

Good luck see you on 6m sometime maybe. I hang out on 50.1250 Mhz

:
n0klu - mike has 6m open up lately , if its going to it should start soon ,do you talk on 2m ssB its good to when it opens up, I have qsl cards from your state on 2 m ssb to hope to hear you on 6 m ,73 Bill
6M opens and closes in short bursts I have seen it open for an hour at a time and then at other times for 15 minutes so you have to continually monitor the bands. I find the "grey line" to be the best time but also late afternoon and with the warmer days even well into the night. 6M is hard to say when it opens up. I just call CQ, and see if anyone answers.

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 01 2006,14:31)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Feb. 28 2006,23:14)]I just get a kick out of you guys on both sides P&M'ing over each others point of view. I'm having way too much fun on 6M to even worry about upgrading for now. I loved the self portrait that AG4YO put out of himself, you know the one with the guy's head smelling the roses! that was great!, wonder why he took it down? In the last month I've already made 54 contacts on 6m... you guys need to take a deep breath and pick up the ol' microphone ( or Key) and make some real contacts... Oh I know some of you have made more contacts but It hasn't been open often and I do this for my own enjoyment, not for anyone else's Bloviation of consternation. The FCC will do what the FCC wants to do. We need to be about RADIO, not PC ranting. The FCC don't read these forums anyway... Flame on boys it shows what good "gentlemen" you are.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(humm wonder why my little smiley didn't show up?? Oh well.) #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The pictures won't show up and now your smileyl faces don't show either?.....guess I removed your smiley faces too, eh? #DUH! #Looks like you are a NCT on the computer too! #ROFL!!
I just didn't go back far enough, it was on page 30 of this thread but there it is! And as you can see I did get the smileys in place so being a NCT even on the computer is better than you with your head up... smelling the roses! ha ha

Folks this is the self portrait of AG4YO, It shows why he can't see past his self-righteousness and smearing of no-coders. How does it smell there, Charlie.

from his post on page 30
http://www.qrz.com/uploads/post-3-41511-head_up_rear.jpg

[ky5u]

Here's another one you can steal. This is n0clu on his back while the Amateur Community changes his no-code baby diaper:

[N7YA]

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 01 2006,06:12)]n0klu - mike has 6m open up lately , if its going to it should start soon ,do you talk on 2m ssB its good to when it opens up, I have qsl cards from your state on 2 m ssb to hope to hear you on 6 m ,73 Bill
Hey! Hey! WHOA!!

Dont you guys know this is a website for arguing?? you guys cant just go around and spread all this "friendly ham radio" stuff!!!

Get your act together, gentlemen, and start fighting with eachother or something....come on!! join the program!

And whats with all this 'getting on the air' nonsense?? you guys better turn those radios OFF and get back on the computer like everyone else!!!

Geez....some people! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

73...Adam, N7YA

p.s...I will be up and running on 6meters by the time this cycle really gets rolling, hope to hear you guys there. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KE7DSY]

Why are we allowing something such as "to test or not to test" to divide us and reduce all of us to petty bickering and name-calling? #Amateur Radio may be a service, but it is also a hobby as well.

We all take from a hobby what we want to from it, whether it be EME, PSK-31, Echolink, CW, or a host of other possibilities. #The bottom line is that we all will enjoy the hobby as we choose to. #We need to lay aside our differences and accept each other as we are. #I don't believe that eliminating requirements can destroy the hobby, but I do believe strongly that a lack of civility and respect for the opinions and rights of others will destroy us. #I for one am planning to take my morse code exam before my Element 3 written exam and I hope to know it well enough before the FCC makes their ruling. #Even if Element 1 is eliminated before I test, I will still continue to learn the code just in case. #I don't want to rush down to test the minute I get it all perfect - I want to be sure that I know it forwards and backwards - much like I did when I first got licensed - after about 4 months of study. #I respect all amateur operators that follow the rules - whether they be a 20-wpm extra or a no-code tech. #We are all here because we enjoy the same hobby but that doesn't mean we all have to enjoy it in the same way as everyone else.

Making everyone enjoy code would be like going to Baskin-Robbins and having all 31 flavors be plain vanilla. #Take from the hobby what you choose to. #Enjoy the public service aspect if that is what interests you as well. #Accept the requirements that are in place for us and welcome newcomers no matter what they had to do to earn their tickets. #That is how we will bring newbies into the hobby - by welcoming them, not by having a "I'm better than you because I did this/that/or the other"

In short, Rodney King said it best - "Can't we all just get along?"

73 de KE7DSY

[K3DAV]

I don't believe that you guys actually read all of my last post, or maybe you read just what you wanted to read, and came to your own conclusions.

As I did say, I have tried for many years to learn CW, but have failed horribly each time. #Yet I have a GROL, and have been an RF engineer for many years. #I can take commercial station transmitters apart and put them back together while taking a nap. #I have designed antenna arrays for commercial stations. #I am not saying this to brag. #All I am saying is, that I can do with transmitters what most Extra class operators only wish that they could do. #I could teach most Extras and Generals quite a few things about radio and electronics, and yet I don't deserve to use the HF bands simply and ONLY because I can't learn a MODE of transmission.

If that is not the stupidest thing anyone has ever heard, then I don't know what is. #This argument has gone way too far now, and trying to have an intelligent discussion with closed minded, egos that just want it their way or no way, is no longer worth the time it takes to type the replies.

This is K3DAV, Class; Technician. #A.K.A. #Gimme Gimme, low class tech. #The man who wants everything for nothing. #Mr. Lazy.....call me whatever your one-track minds desire, saying have fun with this worthless argument guys. #Hang in there. #I am betting that I can come back here 3 years after the FCC drops the element 1 test, and you guys will still be stuck in the same rut, bit**ing and complaining about what you have no control over.

Take care boys. #It's been nice trying to debate you with intelligence. #A futile effort.

[ab0wr]

Quote[/b] ]k3dav:
yet I don't deserve to use the HF bands simply and ONLY because I can't learn a MODE of transmission.


Still with the "can't", eh?

I really do thank you for being the example on this thread.

You have deliberately ignored every option every one of us has offered as an accomodation for your disablity and instead of taking advantage of the options you just continue to claim victimhood.

You have been the perfect poster child for showing the difference between "can't" and "won't try".

I'll leave it to the readers of the thread to decide what the reason for the "won't try" attitude stems from.

tim ab0wr

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Mar. 01 2006,12:44)]I don't believe that you guys actually read all of my last post, or maybe you read just what you wanted to read, and came to your own conclusions.

As I did say, I have tried for many years to learn CW, but have failed horribly each time. Yet I have a GROL, and have been an RF engineer for many years. I can take commercial station transmitters apart and put them back together while taking a nap. I have designed antenna arrays for commercial stations. I am not saying this to brag. All I am saying is, that I can do with transmitters what most Extra class operators only wish that they could do. I could teach most Extras and Generals quite a few things about radio and electronics, and yet I don't deserve to use the HF bands simply and ONLY because I can't learn a MODE of transmission.

If that is not the stupidest thing anyone has ever heard, then I don't know what is. This argument has gone way too far now, and trying to have an intelligent discussion with closed minded, egos that just want it their way or no way, is no longer worth the time it takes to type the replies.

This is K3DAV, Class; Technician. A.K.A. Gimme Gimme, low class tech. The man who wants everything for nothing. Mr. Lazy.....call me whatever your one-track minds desire, saying have fun with this worthless argument guys. Hang in there. I am betting that I can come back here 3 years after the FCC drops the element 1 test, and you guys will still be stuck in the same rut, bit**ing and complaining about what you have no control over.

Take care boys. It's been nice trying to debate you with intelligence. A futile effort.
DAV,

What I have noticed is that many hard core NCTs have "disabilities" that prevent them from learning the code. When they have the opportunity to work through the issue, they get MAD at the person trying to help. Why? The moment of truth approaches when they have to find out if their disability is judged to be "real" in order to have the accomodation. Because when you remove the "disability" as an issue, what's left? I think you're doing the only thing you can do now, DAV, you're gettin' while the gettin is good.

Good luck and sorry we could not have found a meeting of the minds somewhere becasue there were no winners here.

[KC0TJO]

K3DAV said #"Hams should be able to come here and intelligently talk about issues that concern all hams equally."

Your right David, they should, but can't/won't. #The US must be the laughing stock of the international ham community.

For anyone who thinks they need to post my call and license class, I'll save you the trouble. #I am a NCT. #I'm in the process of upgrading right now to general. #The local club is holding classes for the written element. #After that, I'll tackle CW. #Not to gain the approval of anyone else. #Because I want to. #Why not do the code first or concurrently? #Because I have too much going on for that. #I'm also a busy full-time student in electronics and a dad who likes to spend my free time with my wife and little boy. #If the club had a code class first I would have gone to it. #If they do a code class next I would like to go. #But I just don't have the time to commit to it right now with my other studies to do them both now. #It is entirely possible that the cw requirement will be gone before I learn it well enough to test on it. #So what. #If I gain proficiency on my own, what difference does it make if it is required or not? #What is important is that I did do it. #It is still the same written exam with or without code. #The license will still say "General" under Operator Priviledges. #Knowing code for the test won't cause me to know more electronic theory, not really.

I want to learn code just for me. #I like the idea of tapping out code with very little power at the campsite or a hilltop while hiking, on a tranceiver that I built. #But that's just me.

73 to all.
KC0TJO

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KC0TJO @ Mar. 01 2006,16:06)]K3DAV said "Hams should be able to come here and intelligently talk about issues that concern all hams equally."

Your right David, they should, but can't/won't. The US must be the laughing stock of the international ham community.

For anyone who thinks they need to post my call and license class, I'll save you the trouble. I am a NCT. I'm in the process of upgrading right now to general. The local club is holding classes for the written element. After that, I'll tackle CW. Not to gain the approval of anyone else. Because I want to. Why not do the code first or concurrently? Because I have too much going on for that. I'm also a busy full-time student in electronics and a dad who likes to spend my free time with my wife and little boy. If the club had a code class first I would have gone to it. If they do a code class next I would like to go. But I just don't have the time to commit to it right now with my other studies to do them both now. It is entirely possible that the cw requirement will be gone before I learn it well enough to test on it. So what. If I gain proficiency on my own, what difference does it make if it is required or not? What is important is that I did do it. It is still the same written exam with or without code. The license will still say "General" under Operator Priviledges. Knowing code for the test won't cause me to know more electronic theory, not really.

I want to learn code just for me. I like the idea of tapping out code with very little power at the campsite or a hilltop while hiking, on a tranceiver that I built. But that's just me.

73 to all.
KC0TJO
Most of this conversation doesn't apply to you. You're doing all the right things and I don't hear alot of excuses. You don't like the telegraphy requirement but you wouldn't let it stop you. We're talking here about making excuses and wanting to change the rules just so someone doesn't have to meet the requirement.

The telegraphy requirement is going away in some manner and as a result, a larger number of losers will get on HF. Some good folks will make it on as well. Lets hope the good out weighs the bad. While not a perfect filter, the telegraphy test has been a filter as evidenced by some of the posts I have seen here. You seem to be one of the good ones. Good luck!

[KC9HTU]

Best of luck KC0TJO,

I understand I am only focusing on one element as well. I am working on the code. Only because I do well to deal with what I am more scared of first. That is what works for me.

If my local club, had a class for either element I would be doing the same thing.

This thread has really done one thing. Now I can not WAIT to get on here and say "I passed my code test." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I think that Charlie is going to get a message from me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Jennifer

[AC0GT]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 28 2006,20:54)]Quote[/b] ]LXK: If the pro-coders are right that the CBers and freebanders will flood the frequencies with profanities, music, kilowatt transmitters, etc. so they can't get a dit in edgewise then they lose.

Heads I win, tails you lose. That just brings a warm fuzzy feeling in my twisted way of thinking. The only way you can disappoint is to stop posting, which I doubt will happen any time soon.

Interesting idea. Not caring what happens to amateur radio as long as you get what you want. Sounds familiar...
No, you're putting words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that many pro-coders have filled themselves with so much hate and pessimism that the only way to prove they are right would also deny them of the hobby they enjoy. That's what brings the evil grin to my face, the realization that the pro-coders have painted themselves into a no win corner.

Heads I win, tails you lose. Perhaps that is not the most healthy attitude to have. It is definitely foolish and selfish to take pleasure in another's pain. I've been reading threads like this since I've been licensed almost five years ago. All through that time a little devil has been sitting on my shoulder whispering into my ear taking great pleasure in the foolishness I've seen. Now that the end is coming closer for Morse code testing I've been listening more intently to that demonic voice that ridicules the pain that the pro-coders have brought upon themselves. I know that whatever happens that little devil on my shoulder will have the last laugh. You'll just have to forgive me as I go about my day with an evil grin, the devil made me do it.

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (N7YA @ Mar. 01 2006,12:18)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Mar. 01 2006,06:12)]n0klu - mike has 6m open up lately , if its going to it should start soon ,do you talk on 2m ssB its good to when it opens up, I have qsl cards from your state on 2 m ssb to hope to hear you on 6 m ,73 Bill
Hey! Hey! WHOA!!

Dont you guys know this is a website for arguing?? you guys cant just go around and spread all this "friendly ham radio" stuff!!!

Get your act together, gentlemen, and start fighting with eachother or something....come on!! join the program!

And whats with all this 'getting on the air' nonsense?? #you guys better turn those radios OFF and get back on the computer like everyone else!!!

Geez....some people! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

73...Adam, N7YA

p.s...I will be up and running on 6meters by the time this cycle really gets rolling, hope to hear you guys there. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
n7ya- adam it would Be great to Talk to you on any Band , Right now I am stuck on 6m But hope to get this code thing one of these days , it dont come easy for me But I will get it I hope soon , and I wish all posters would post good post like you do , this nonsence would not Be going on like it is , But thats the way it is cant change it so we learn to live with it ,73 Bill

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 01 2006,19:01)]Here's another one you can steal. #This is n0clu on his back while the Amateur Community changes his no-code baby diaper:
That is a cute one, However I'm not the one "crying" or "lamenting" over the changes in the ARS.( havent been in diapers in over 49 years.) I am happy just where I am. But You and others are bawling about the soon to be changes and all those no-code Generals and no-code Extras that you will have to contend with. Have fun with them. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K7JEM]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 01 2006,07:24)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 28 2006,22:58)]The only code test I ever took was in 1974, I thought it was stupid then, even more stupid (inane?) today. Why the hell am I taking a test for some archaic form of communication that I will never use? If people want to use CW, go for it. If other people think its useless, that's fine too. There is plenty of room in ham radio for everyone.

Why does everyone get bent out of shape? It's going to happen, if not tomorrow or the next day, then next month or next year; it is inevitable.

I get so tired of people saying "you want something for nothing", that is so bogus and demeaning that I cant express with words the lack of mentality that these people must have. If they told you that you had to eat a jar of pickles to get a ham license, would you do it cause everyone else did? Or would you question why?

No-one is getting "something for nothing". I did, earlier in my ham career. In the late 80's they gave 10 M SSB to techs. We had to do nothing to get the upgrade, absolutely nothing. Do I feel bad about it? No, that's called progress and change.

I got my First Class Radiotelephone license in 1978. A couple of years later, they eliminated it and gave me a GROL, same as the second class operators got. Did I whine and complain that someone got something for nothing? No, I just went on about my business. Did I ask people with a GROL if they really had a second, or did they have a "First" like me? And what about all these newbies with a GROL, do I complain and belittle them, ("Oh the REAL test we had to take back in the 70's was much harder.") no, they took the test that they were given (whether they waited for it or not is inmaterial).

We belong to a great hobby and (argueably) a great brotherhood of radio aficionados, why let a code test break us apart?

Joe
Another CW hater. Sad. You took the test because it was the law. International law. Now it is not. And now the FCC will do away with the code test all together or in some form. Like anyone else, when you're mad there is no reasoning tha