UFOs -- Have you ever seen one? [Archive]

KW4MW

02-18-2006, 02:03 AM

One summer in the mid fifties my brother Chuck, my cousin Bill and myself were “camping out” on the front lawn of our family home in north central WV. #We had spread an old quilt on the ground and had settled in for the evening with blankets and pillows.

We were all looking skyward when we saw what looked like a meteor moving north at a rapid pace. #It was glowing bright red but left no trail as meteors sometimes do. # Nor did it flicker but remained the same intensity throughout our observations. #

The object had traversed approximately 60 degrees of arc when it suddenly broke hard left – that is to say that it just quit moving north and began moving west at the same speed. #That lasted approximately two seconds when it again abruptly changed course back to the north in the same manner as before and continued until it disappeared over the horizon.

To this day I can’t say for certain what it was we observed. #The odds of three separate meteors combining speed, direction and timing to create what we saw that night are just too astronomical to consider.

Well it was unidentified, as least in our case. #It was moving through the sky so I guess technically it was flying. #Ergo – an Unidentified Flying Object. #As to whether it was controlled by intelligence – your guess is as good as mine.

al2i

02-18-2006, 03:12 AM

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ Feb. 17 2006,19:03)]One summer in the mid fifties...
There were lots of UFO sightings in the mid-fifties. My Dad, an electronics guy, was called into a radar ops center when the operators wanted to know if something was wrong with their equipment. They had been tracking some unexplainable stuff, and he was there when they finally had a successful intercept run by a fighter (I think he thought it was an F-104).

He said he watched the screen as they vectored the fighter closer and closer to the unidentified blip, and when the jet blip and the bogey were virtually at the same point on the screen, the pilot reported he had "a visual", followed shortly with the comment "it's gone -- it just took off".

Dad said that no one ever talked about it later, and it was as if it had never happened. I was incredulous, but he said that Cold War secrecy was to blame.

WB2WIK

02-18-2006, 03:22 AM

As a Dean Koontz fan, I have to say I have not only seen UFO's, I think I've been one.

Thank you for your vote. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2WIK/6

WA2ZDY

02-18-2006, 03:45 AM

Here's a point to ponder.

How do we know that things we see around us aren't UFOs? #How do we know that of a zillion specks of dust, one isn't a spaceship of some sort? #How exactly do we know?

I think it's rather arrogant of us to think that in the whole wide universe, we're the only ones chosen to be alive. #And it's similarly arrogant for us to assume that life forms from far away will tend to look like us or like other earth creatures. #Look at Star Wars - all the "other" life forms look "like" us. #They have faces, limbs, eyes, nose of one sort or other . . .

Most scientists discuss life in other worlds and qualify their comments with the adjective "carbon based life forms require . . ." #Why do we think other life forms have to be anything like what we know?

Ok, enough of that. #

No, I don't believe I've ever seen a UFO. I can't even say I believe there are such things, but truthfully, there is no valid reason to believe there aren't.

al2i

02-18-2006, 04:14 AM

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Feb. 17 2006,20:45)]How do we know that things we see around us aren't UFOs? How do we know that of a zillion specks of dust, one isn't a spaceship of some sort? How exactly do we know?
I had one of those after midnight 80 meter discussions with an Alaskan ham and I asserted that with advanced technology UFOs would surely be able to appear like innocuous, everyday objects. He started to suspect an empty pop can on the other side of his ham shack, saying it "seemed sentient." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KC0KBH

02-18-2006, 04:33 AM

Once I woke at about 3:00 am, more like 3:21 I think, and I could vaugly remember a strange series of events. I really had to think hard to remember what happened. I can't remember anymore. That happened about 1/2 year ago. It was very strange. I wonder if it had anything to do with UFO's? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

The other night, I woke up to get a drink of water at about 11:00 PM. I looked, where I normally have a cup of water next to my bed, and I did that night, and it was gone! I looked around, and it was on the floor, sitting upright, empty. Although, I had a can of Mountain Dew about 2 hours before that. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Caffinated pop really make me sleep weird, but I don't know what the heck the strange series of events was. Like I said, I can't remember it. I really do wonder if it was an alien abduction, since I've read about people not being able to remember what happened, but knowing something happened. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

W8CEI

02-18-2006, 05:02 AM

I was hit in the head by a UFO!! I'm not sure but think it was a frying pan, thowed by the xyl??http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

ai4ep

02-18-2006, 05:26 AM

Us n was left here some time back, and we is supposed to be at a certain location at a certain time in the future, so the space ship can take us back where we came from and if we aint there, we will be left behind.

No I cant tell you where to be or on what date in the future...dont want CNN hanging around.

But we know this much, you folks here on earth sure are stupid fighting amongst yourselves all the time. If you treat your fellow man / woman like that, imagine how you would treat folks from another planet.

w5klb

02-18-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote[/b] (W8CEI @ Feb. 17 2006,22:02)]I was hit in the head by a UFO!! I'm not sure but think it was a frying pan, thowed by the xyl??http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
What... didn't you know the meaning of the word "duck"? #That word always worked for me with my x-xyl. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

wv6z

02-18-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 16 2006,23:26)]Us n was left here some time back, and we is supposed to be at a certain location at a certain time in the future, so the space ship can take us back where we came from and if we aint there, we will be left behind.

No I cant tell you where to be or on what date in the future...dont want CNN hanging around.

But we know this much, you folks here on earth sure are stupid fighting amongst yourselves all the time. #If you treat your fellow man / woman like that, imagine how you would treat folks from another planet.
How did we get separated? Mission going well here. Glad all thought ‘Third Rock From The Sun’ was NOT a documentary. Drop me a PM here when rescue ship itinerary has been established or call me on 3.916mHZ after the Freewheelers net to advise of pick up time and rendezvous point, though I’m sure it will be in Alabama. Please report in for me that I am still maintaining close proximity and observations of the area called Possum Kingdom here in South Carolina and no, they don’t realize that they are a food source yet (yes, I mean the possum and both variety of hams – two and four legged). That is all……

…..END TRANSMISSION

k4lem

02-18-2006, 01:06 PM

I had a wierd experience maybe 12-13 years ago. I had just formed a amateur radio group at my University. We were talking on two meters twice a week about various topics members would bring up.

I had an impassioned discussion with an engineering student about UFOS and recall he was interested.
I left work late, after the lab at 8 or 9 pm and well after dark.

I had about 29 miles to drive home and to my knowledge had never in my life seen anything I'd call a UFO.

About halfway home I saw what appeared to be a green flashing light on side of the road. As I appraoched it it did seem to be at ground level, and there was a fair size mountain to right of highway so the sky in that direction was more or less blocked at low elevation angles.

The object suddenly seemed to rise up and began to shoot silently toward the west and in front of me.
The western side of highway was valley and Lake Champlain.

The object flew off toward the west, and was green in color.

I later told the student of my strange experience and was it a Meteor or UFO? In any event it was a strange coincidence I will always remember.

K9STH

02-18-2006, 04:34 PM

I have seen nocturnal lights on two occasions. One was after midnight from my back yard in Richardson, Texas. The other was from my parent's summer house in Holiday Island, Arkansas. That one was seen by my eldest daughter as well.

We were sitting on the 2nd floor balcony watching a major meteor shower (the only light pollution up there was a very slight glow on the horizon from Springfield, Missouri, about 60 miles north) when there was a VERY bright light streaking across the sky. At first we thought that it was either a meteor that was closer to us or larger in size. However, the light made a sudden 90 degree turn and went in that direction for a few seconds and then made another sudden 90 degree turn and headed back up. No aircraft could have made that sudden a turn at the speed that the object was travelling.

The one that I saw early in the morning from Richardson was somewhat similar. A light that I originally thought was probably an airplane suddenly made a right-angle turn at high speed and then another right-angle turn. However, the light was much dimmer than the one in Arkansas.

Back when I was in high school there was a fellow who ran a garage television shop who lived 1/2 block from my parents. He worked at Allis-Chalmers in the "tool crib" during the day and fixed televisions at night and on weekends. However, he was a graduate EE who also wrote technical books and books on the paranormal. Orville (his real name) got involved with NICAP (an organization back in the 1950s and 1960s that dealt with UFOs). He founded NICAP Indiana Sub-committee #2 and got together a relatively large number of people who were interested in the subject.

As an interested teenager I went with him when he investigated some "sightings". Some of them were, to put it mildly, were a bunch of kooks. But, some of the sightings were by people who were sincere in their observations.

Although I didn't know it until decades later, Orville decided to list me as the 2nd chairman of the sub-committee! I didn't find this out until several years ago when I did a "google" on NICAP. One of the sites lists the various officers of the national group and of the local sub-committees. There was my name as local chariman!

As for whether or not UFOs are "real": Between 95 and 98 percent can definitely be explained in a very rational manner. However, it is those that fall in the very small percentage of sightings that lead me to believe that there are definitely things out there that we cannot explain.

Also, to think that out of the billions and billions of stars, some of which have already had planets confirmed to be in orbit, that we are the only life form in the Universe is mathematically absurd. The chances are just too great that life does exist elsewhere in the Universe.

Glen, K9STH

kc7jty

02-18-2006, 05:57 PM

I see em all the time. I was abducted once by aliens and taken aboard their really weird craft. I felt very calm, content, and relaxed (it must have been something they did to me).
Everything was going along fine until one of them stuck his long, cold, green finger into a very private place.

When I see em now I hide.

al2i

02-18-2006, 09:04 PM

The sudden increase in UFO sightings after WWII make me think that most of the UFO lore is the result of strange, secretive, cold war goings on. We know for example about the flying wing, high altitude balloons, missile tests and so forth.

But the events that give me pause are the events where military bases were the places of UFO sightings. Especially those bases where nukes were kept. Supposedly, the people observing the UFOs were sober and concerned with security.

There is nothing in nature that normally mimics the energy signature of an exploding nuke. The United States alone set off 338 above ground nuclear tests. Maybe we attracted some increased scrutiny.

k4lem

02-18-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 18 2006,11:34)]I have seen nocturnal lights on two occasions. #One was after midnight from my back yard in Richardson, Texas. #The other was from my parent's summer house in Holiday Island, Arkansas. #That one was seen by my eldest daughter as well.

We were sitting on the 2nd floor balcony watching a major meteor shower (the only light pollution up there was a very slight glow on the horizon from Springfield, Missouri, about 60 miles north) when there was a VERY bright light streaking across the sky. #At first we thought that it was either a meteor that was closer to us or larger in size. #However, the light made a sudden 90 degree turn and went in that direction for a few seconds and then made another sudden 90 degree turn and headed back up. #No aircraft could have made that sudden a turn at the speed that the object was travelling.

The one that I saw early in the morning from Richardson was somewhat similar. #A light that I originally thought was probably an airplane suddenly made a right-angle turn at high speed and then another right-angle turn. #However, the light was much dimmer than the one in Arkansas.

Back when I was in high school there was a fellow who ran a garage television shop who lived 1/2 block from my parents. #He worked at Allis-Chalmers in the "tool crib" during the day and fixed televisions at night and on weekends. #However, he was a graduate EE who also wrote technical books and books on the paranormal. #Orville (his real name) got involved with NICAP (an organization back in the 1950s and 1960s that dealt with UFOs). #He founded NICAP Indiana Sub-committee #2 and got together a relatively large number of people who were interested in the subject.

As an interested teenager I went with him when he investigated some "sightings". #Some of them were, to put it mildly, were a bunch of kooks. #But, some of the sightings were by people who were sincere in their observations. #

Although I didn't know it until decades later, Orville decided to list me as the 2nd chairman of the sub-committee! #I didn't find this out until several years ago when I did a "google" on NICAP. #One of the sites lists the various officers of the national group and of the local sub-committees. #There was my name as local chariman!

As for whether or not UFOs are "real": #Between 95 and 98 percent can definitely be explained in a very rational manner. #However, it is those that fall in the very small percentage of sightings that lead me to believe that there are definitely things out there that we cannot explain.

Also, to think that out of the billions and billions of stars, some of which have already had planets confirmed to be in orbit, that we are the only life form in the Universe is mathematically absurd. #The chances are just too great that life does exist elsewhere in the Universe.

Glen, K9STH
[QUOTE]

Although this argument has been posited I do-not know how many times to suggest its not irrational we are visited or oberved by extras.
I think Einstein said it or allegedly said it one night while at a eatery. The waiter, a bright college student asked him if the Universe was open (infinite) or finite.

Einstein smiled and replied, " You NO worry about that because YOU not go out there."

Truth is yes, life might be there somewhere, but hardly likely to be of a form which thinks, abstracts and develops even radio transmitters, let alone inter stellar space craft.

Unless these Extras know something current physics does not, such travel in any period likely to corrspond to the time of civilization here on earth is very very unlikely.

However, that said, some people have had some encounters of the third kind that seem to defy explation.
The fisherman in Mississippi and the foresters in Arizona
have passed lie detector tests and nobody has ever been able to explain the encounters, not even famous debunker Phil (is it Krause?). http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

al2i

02-18-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 18 2006,14:04)]There is nothing in nature that normally mimics the energy signature of an exploding nuke. The United States alone set off 338 above ground nuclear tests. Maybe we attracted some increased scrutiny.
I find the idea of actual alien creatures visiting harder to swallow than the idea of alien monitoring or data-gathering devices of some sort. Such constructs would be sentient I presume. Perhaps our part of the galaxy is sprinkled with them.

I would lean towards Arthur C. Clarke's vision of self-reproducing, sentient, all-purpose tools, simply because the idea seems like a logical extension. (If logic may be dragged into such a fanciful subject.)

k4lem

02-18-2006, 09:45 PM

I find the idea of actual alien creatures visiting harder to swallow than the idea of alien monitoring or data-gathering devices of some sort. Such constructs would be sentient I presume. Perhaps our part of the galaxy is sprinkled with them.

[U]

The Universe speed limit, the speed of light, along with the apparent infinite extent of the Universe, and the fact humans and civilizations are born and die in finite time, makes even communication with an alien civilization impractical.

The human race is very very young when compared with life on this planet. The birth of nuclear bombs, biotechnology and other swords, assures it will crumble long before the sun burns out. When the DNA is gone to dust, nothing BUT an alien over seeing culture could ressurect it. And, IMHO, that's not going to happen when dooms day comes and it certainly will come.

k4lem

02-18-2006, 09:51 PM

http://ufos.about.com/od/ufoskeptics/p/klass.htm

Here is a brief biography of Phil the UFO debunker and he was trained as an EE too ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

W5HTW

02-18-2006, 10:19 PM

One time I was walking through the kitchen. My wife was standing at the stove. I happened to look at the pan, and yes, I saw it! (Not, not a grilled cheese with the face of the Virgin Mary) A REAL UFO. Unidentified Frying Object. Later that evening I ate it.

Have seen several UFOS, to be honest, over a lot of years. Some were quite spectacular! But, I hung around and watched, perhaps a bit in awe, but mostly in curiosity. And a bit of watching converted my UFO to an IFO - Identified Flying Object.

That appears to be the problem. We are not willing to take the time to think. We see a weird light and, Bang (!) UFO.

One night I decided to chase a UFO. Seriously. Well, go look for it, though "chase" may not be the right word. It was exactly like the famous Phoenix lights of a few years ago, seen over Phoenix, AZ. But I wanted to get closer. So I hoped into the car and I set out on my journey. It was a very strange UFO, to be honest. Orange lights in the sky, floating, drifting, sometimes merging, sometimes separating. This is desert. Nothing there but air. How could that be? No radio towers, no mountains. Three orange lights.

So I went looking. I found them. I drove up to them. And I learned something.

Another time I was driving along a lonely country road when a bright light flashed across in front of me. I was frightened, really. But the light was gone. It had been low, fast. A meteor that almost hit my car? A crashing airplane?

That second thought got the better of me and I went back. I found the area where I had been, but there was no fire, no crashed plane, nothing of interest. So I turned around and headed back in my original direction again, but slower. And then, there was the light! Slower, too. My heart was pounding! I slammed on brakes. The light also stopped. Directly in front of me, and up in the air a bit. HUH?

And then I realized it was the reflection of a security light at a farm. I couldn't actually see it from my position in the seat, as I was just barely below tree line. But high on my windshield, it was reflected. Another UFO bit the dust. I was, though, still shaking.

One night I saw the proverbial V-shaped flight of UFOs. They were really moving. High altitude, probably doing well in excess of 3,000 mph. Rapid maneuvers. I started to run to the phone to call a friend. But I paused, to look again. They were still coming my direction.

Uh, they weren't so high. Uh, they weren't so fast. Uh, they were seagulls, reflecting on their feathery little tummies, lights from the ground.

Another time I was watching on TV a story about UFOs. One of the video segments showed a flight of helicopters in Mexico, at an air show. And then there was a metallic, round object, falling past the choppers. An amazing UFO. And excellent video. I was recording it, so afterward I watched it several times. And then I realized one of the two round, metallic objects was between me and the helicopter! It wasn't a distant, huge, round UFO. It was a small, close, round UFO. And it was falling. Not from a helicopter.

And I knew what it was. In fact, I was at that time working for a company that actually MADE these "UFOS."

Another UFO story bit the dust.

There was, though, another story. And that one remains Unidentified. Not creatures from a distant galaxy, though. It was in 1964. I was westbound on the Mass Turnpike, and it was after midnight. I was approaching Springfield.

Suddenly there were many lights in the sky, green, white, brilliant blue, red. My instant thought was Northern Lights. But wait - they were south of me! They looked like the results of a huge Roman Candle. Multicolored blobs of light. And they were falling from the sky.

Seemed close, too. Then, they began to sink behind a distant hill to the south of me, and I figured that hill to be about two miles away. I had by now pulled over onto the shoulder. What were these lights? I had no idea, but they were bright, very bright, and had spread out over what I guessed to be a east-west range of a good mile. As they sank behind the hill, they also faded and the glow died away.

What was it? I never found out. But a couple of guesses included some sort of research balloon that had been launched from the labs at Springfield, and had probably been deliberately exploded, to test wind currents?? I settled on the idea it was a military project, anyway.

Used to see UFOS pretty regularly off the Delmarva Peninsula. Strange lights and colors in the sky. But I knew a fellow who worked there - Wallops Island, VA, where they launched high altitude sounding rockets, which spread colored dye in the upper atmosphere, to track wind currents.

Here we get reports of UFOs a few times a year. A brilliant light in the evening sky. And with every incident, the TV stations have to once again explain to people what it really is; a NASA high altitude balloon, at 130,000 feet in near-space. These balloons are launched from Fort Sumner, NM, and are 960 feet tall and 640 feet in diameter. After the sun has gone down, they reflect sunlight, making a bright temporary star.

My definition of UFOs?? "Ordinary objects seen under extraordinary conditions."

Ed

Only one thing remains completely unexplained for me.

w0aew

02-19-2006, 12:28 AM

If extraterrestials have the super gee-whiz advanced technology to travel multiple light years to reach the earth, how come they can't figure out how to turn off their saucer lights at night?

K9STH

02-19-2006, 01:20 AM

There are particles that travel faster than the speed of light that have been known for some time. For a while it seemed like the speed of light was some sort of "barrier" like the speed of sound. However, within the past few weeks it was announced that scientists have been able to actually propel particles from sub light speed to over the speed of light (exceeding warp 1).

Now these particles were sub atomic. But, the speed of light has been exceeded which disproves the concept that the speed of light is absolute. Right now the same scientific teams are working to propel even larger particles beyond the speed of light.

Glen, K9STH

al2i

02-19-2006, 01:40 AM

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ Feb. 18 2006,17:28)]If extraterrestials have the super gee-whiz advanced technology to travel multiple light years to reach the earth, how come they can't figure out how to turn off their saucer lights at night?
Assume some UFOs are alien.

First off I don't think they must necessarily travel at super-luminal speeds.

Second-off I personally would doubt aliens are aboard. If they are, they are probably grown from seed material when an interesting condition is found. This could be for some interpretive purpose, perhaps artistic for lack of a better term..

Third-off, the devices would probably emanate from a source and spread without ceasing, reproducing themselves as needed and leaving monitors at interesting places in the U to gather data that could be sent back to the original source. I assume this could continue for millions of years.

Finally, perhaps most do employ careful stealth techniques and what we see, if anything, is the result of curious but clumsy teenager civilizations that are cruising around.

KW4MW

02-19-2006, 01:46 AM

Earlier in this thread I detailed a sighting that I had #observed #Quote[/b] ]The object had traversed approximately 60 degrees of arc when it suddenly broke hard left – that is to say that it just quit moving north and began moving west at the same speed. #That lasted approximately two seconds when it again abruptly changed course back to the north in the same manner as before and continued until it disappeared over the horizon.
A few posts later Glen, K9STH says that he observed essentially the same thing. #Quote[/b] ]However, the light made a sudden 90 degree turn and went in that direction for a few seconds and then made another sudden 90 degree turn and headed back up. #No aircraft could have made that sudden a turn at the speed that the object was travelling.

I have heard reports from other observers who have reported the same phenomenon.

Could we have observed an actual UFO or an anomaly in the space-time continuim?

Inquiring minds would like to know!

wb7dmx

02-19-2006, 02:00 AM

all I will say is yes, several times, and not just me alone.

al2i

02-19-2006, 03:30 AM

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ Feb. 18 2006,18:46)]I have heard reports from other observers who have reported the same phenomenon.

Could we have observed an actual UFO or an anomaly in the space-time continuim?

Inquiring minds would like to know!
My late Father-in-law reported exactly the same occurance, approach, hover, right-angle turns and high-speed exit.

k4lem

02-19-2006, 03:49 AM

A number of years ago NH-MUFON sponsored a seminar with lunch in Portsmouth, NH. I came in on the early part of the program.

Some of you UFO-Fers may recall the Travis Walton so called abduction. Walton was at the time a teenage, sorta punkie kid who was working as a logger in Arizona.

Walton and his crew boss (do-not recall the man's name) were at the seminar.

The most interesting testimony came from the crew boss. He did seem to me very credible, a working man who experienced the incredible.

I recall he said the "craft" made a noise like a generator, humming or rumble. When it departed, it did NOT shoot into the sky it rather faded in a linear way (straight line) into the horizon.

This to me an amateur mathematician, suggested not physics, but some sort of inter dimensional warping of our assumed, three space, one time coordinate.
If we have three Space coordinates, only, why would that be? And why would time have only one axis?

Oh, well, the Walton lecture was less credible and I think Phil Klass suggested Travis was playing games with the help of his brother.

For me if the Waltons are that good with special effects and scaring these loggers to death, they should be in Hollywood making a million as special effects gurus.

K0RGR

02-19-2006, 04:06 AM

I see UFO's almost every time I go to Iowa. "Unidentifiable Farming Objects" can be major hazards on the highways, particularly in hilly country.

I've known two very respected individuals who claimed to have unexplainable events that seem to be UFO's. One was a radar officer at a miltary base in Spain, not far from Gibraltar. They observed a number of craft operating at altitudes and at speeds that could not have been any known terrestrial vehicle. They scrambled jet fighters to investigate, and the pilots reported strange visual observations.

The other person claimed he had seen a strange triangular vehicle hovering above ground, and that it seemed to pursue him as he fled the area. This happened in broad daylight, near noon, in a remote area of the California coastal mountains.

It's possible the radar was fooled by ducting, seeing reflections for far away. But that would have required a very long duct, across the Atlantic. And it doesn't explain the visual sightings from the fighters.

The triangular vehicle the second person described seems to be very similar to one of the most popular UFO reports. If it's not extraterrestrial, somebody has a flying vehicle that defys our knowledge of aerodynamics.

God is, by definition, an extra-terrestrial. With parts of our own galaxy many billions of years older than Earth, what are the odds that beings far more advanced than us would have evolved in that time? To an ant, a glass jar is as mysterious as magic to us. Perhaps a more advanced creature does not see Einstein's theory that the speed of light is absolute. Perhaps they are bright enough to open the jar. Judging by the age of the galaxy and the number of stars like ours in it, I think it's highly likely.

KG6YTZ

02-19-2006, 08:14 AM

Me? #I don't think I've ever seen anything that was just completely unidentifiable - just some high-altitude lights that were most likely satellites or perhaps Mir or the ISS, and the occasional "falling lights" that were probably meteors with high... what metal burns green? copper?... content.

Edit: I should have mentioned that I have been working mostly overnight shifts since late 1986. #I've spent more than my share of time outdoors at night, and I'm frequently looking at the sky while I'm out there. #I STILL haven't seen anything that I could definitively tag as a UFO.

KG6YTZ

02-19-2006, 10:21 AM

On the subject of alien life, though... #I believe I can prove statistically that we are very likely NOT the only sentient species in the universe. #That proof lies in this statement: Any event which is known to have occurred is therefore known to be NOT IMPOSSIBLE. #Any event which is not impossible - regardless of its improbability - can eventually be duplicated.

The probability of intelligent life existing elsewhere in the universe is NON-ZERO - statistically and empirically NOT IMPOSSIBLE - and WE are the proof! #Follow this...

We know that our universe came into existence; therefore, the existence of a universe is not impossible. # #We know that our own galaxy [i]and countless others formed out of the resulting superheated gases; therefore, the formation of galaxies is not impossible. #We know that stars form in every galaxy; therefore, the formation of stars is not impossible. # #We know that planetary systems can form around stars - we have our own solar system, of course, and have recently begun to infer, by observation, the existence of many more; therefore, the formation of planets and planetary systems around stars is not impossible. #We know that life appeared on at least one planet in our own solar system; therefore, the appearance of life on a planet is not impossible. #We know that a species on our own planet possesses sentience and enough intelligence to ponder its own existence and to pose questions such as this; therefore, the development of sentience and intelligence is not impossible.

[i]Any event which is NOT IMPOSSIBLE can be duplicated. #We know that all of the events which led to our existence are not impossible, because they all happened. #Are we alone in the universe? #Are we the only sentient form ever to have existed, the only such form that ever will exist, or ever could exist? #Granted, we certainly don't know of any such life [yet?], but statistics alone show that the probability is NON-ZERO and, because we exist, can never be zero. #Our existence is proof that others can exist. #We are the proof that intelligent life elsewhere, anywhere, is not impossible.

Now, having said that... #There's still a very big stretch indeed between demonstrating statistically that alien civilizations can exist and believing that they have glowing spacecraft zipping through our skies. #Are they out there? #I believe they must be. #Are they HERE, visiting us, observing us? #Personally, I have seen no proof of that, but neither can I - nor can anyone else - prove that it must be flatly impossible.

Why not? #Why can't it be impossible? #Because we have sent craft to other planets, albeit only within our own solar system; therefore, an intelligent species launching exploratory craft to other planets is not impossible! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #We can demonstrate, though, that it would seem to be highly unlikely, if only because of the distances involved.

al2i

02-19-2006, 04:39 PM

In my more speculative moments, I am a little concerned about the silence of the cosmos. Maybe there is a good reason to be quiet, or maybe something is silencing the upstarts.

(Begin playing Twilight Zone music here.)

k4lem

02-19-2006, 05:36 PM

[U]Why not? Why can't it be impossible? Because we have sent craft to other planets, albeit only within our own solar system; therefore, an intelligent species launching exploratory craft to other planets is not impossible! We can demonstrate, though, that it would seem to be highly unlikely, if only because of the distances involved.

Yes. not impossible, just very very imporbable. Recall that in fact space is light years in extent. Civilization on earth very recent and likely to be self exterminating.
Nuclear bombs and the hostile irrational core of humanity almost assures a doomsday. When it will come remains unknown, just that, such a day is far more probable than any alien intelligence visiting earth or even intercepting an intelligent radio communication.

nz3m

02-19-2006, 05:38 PM

I saw a couple posts regarding UFO lights, and the size of aliens.

First, the lights. We use lights on aircraft so they can be identified and seen from the ground, and from other aircraft. Why would a galactical spacecraft need lights? Afterall, it's only dark where the planets block the light, ie. dark side of the moon, earth, whatever.

Now, the size of these aliens. Size is merely a comparison to things we are familiar with here on earth. Something is big because it's bigger than something else, and something is small because it's smaller than something else, get it? So, to assume that alien life forms are relative to our size is ridiculous. There is no galactical comparison to size. We as humans, and everything else on earth are a certain size simply because of the size of our planet and our resources. An alien life form could be microscopic, and be considered very large, depending on who is determining the size. An alien life form could also be the size of tha Atlantic Ocean.

Get my drift? Size, to us, is only a comparison to things around us.

Dave

K8EEI

02-19-2006, 06:06 PM

Meanwhile , let's keep working on our anti-matter production , our worm hole generators , and our warp drive engines and it's only a matter of time until we can travel to the stars in a timely fashion . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

It will be interesting to prove or disprove some more of Einstein's theories . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

al2i

02-20-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote[/b] (K8EEI @ Feb. 19 2006,11:06)]Meanwhile , let's keep working on our anti-matter production , our worm hole generators , and our warp drive engines and it's only a matter of time until we can travel to the stars in a timely fashion . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

It will be interesting to prove or disprove some more of Einstein's theories . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
I think by midcentury our machines will be smart enough to design any and all of those things that are possible for us, but then I am a lite beleiver in the Verner Vinge singularity (http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Singularity/), which is perhaps best described here, by Ray Kurzweil. (http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1)

Like Hans Moravec, (http://www.transhumanist.com/volume1/moravec.htm) I suspect that human level intelligence will be achieved by computers by 2020, and by cheap home computers by 2030. Species level intelligence equal to all humans on the planet ought to be available by 2040, and superhuman intelligence (creating the "singularity") by 2050.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/images/chart19.jpg

WA5KRP

02-20-2006, 07:23 AM

Dave,

That's an awful lot sunshine up our collective skirts, the presumptions being our world remaining out of global conflict, peak oil is a myth, and Earth can continue to feed its exploding population.

Interesting nonetheless.

WA5KRP
Texas

al2i

02-20-2006, 07:48 AM

Danny,

I get pessimistic just like you and Bill Joy (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html) from time to time. I think my own worries started when I read about putting cockroach DNA in to corn plants, but everyone's sky falls a little differently.

KA7RRA

02-20-2006, 08:21 AM

Read my BIO on QRZ

KG6YTZ

02-20-2006, 09:51 AM

It is very important to separate a belief in the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial civilizations from all manner of science fiction nonsense. #The operative word in the phrase "science fiction" is FICTION.

From a purely scientific and statistical perspective, it stands to reason that there certainly can be life elsewhere. #None of the events which led to the appearance of life on Earth could have happened if they were impossible. #If they're not impossible - and clearly, they are not - then they can happen again.

I cannot say, "There IS life on other planets," because that puts the burden of proof on me and presumes that I know where they are. #I don't. #Nobody does, or at the very least, nobody who claims to know can actually prove it. #On the other hand, if I say that I believe they're out there somewhere, then that is simply a statement of belief. #I base that belief on the fact that anything which has happened once can happen again. #With all the galaxies in the universe, and all the stars they contain - and we're talking about some, pardon the pun, astronomically large numbers here - I find it impossible to wrap my mind around the notion that life could only have appeared here and absolutely nowhere else.

So, how does this relate to the UFO topic? #It seems that we have been conditioned to associate a belief in alien life with a belief in flying saucers, alien abductions, alien autopsies, alien technology under wraps, government coverups, and so on. #DO we have alien spacecraft in storage? #IS our government hiding the truth, or rather, whatever some people purport to be the truth? #Frankly, I honestly can't say one way or the other - the only information I've ever seen or heard on the subject is, in my opinion, no more reliable than pure rumor and hearsay. #However, saying that I believe in life on other planets does NOT imply, and is not mean to imply, that I subscribe to any of this X-Files conspiracy theory mumbo-jumbo. #The two CAN be mutually exclusive. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #Without proof, without physical, tangible proof, without actual contact, then the whole notion of alien visitors on Earth is nothing more than science fiction. #I believe that there must be life elsewhere, but I have no reason to believe that they've landed on our planet. #I won't believe that unless it actually happens, and you can be certain that if it does, it will be the top story - hell, the only story! - on every news outlet around the world.

I hope I live to see that day, but I don't honestly expect to.

wb7dmx

02-20-2006, 03:06 PM

the only ones that need proof is the non belivers.

k4lem

02-20-2006, 06:27 PM

From a purely scientific and statistical perspective, it stands to reason that there certainly can be life elsewhere. None of the events which led to the appearance of life on Earth could have happened if they were impossible. If they're not impossible - and clearly, they are not - then they can happen again.

The difference between say the possibility of life and intelligent life that can manipulate its environment is a good deal different question from say, Does gravity exist elsewhere in the Universe.

The best we know is LIFE came into being here on Earth, just one. Humans share over 90 percent of their DNA with a corn plant.

The question is what evolutionary pressures or accidents took place culminating in a bipedal, reasoning being capable to not only being conscious of the Universe, but to understand its physics to the level of quantum physics.

Was it a fluke? Could it take place elsewhere in a similar environment? SURE it could, but what's that chance it would.

Are we alone in the Milky Way galaxy? Are we alone in the local cluster or group of galaxies including Andromeda?
Nobody knows?

Could it be, although highly doubtful, intelligent life developed in another galaxy and was transported in basic form the Earth billions of years ago?

Lots of maybes, but I remain unconvinced in the most optimistic reads on life elsewhere.

Life, even intelligent life could exist on the other side of the galaxy, yet we would more than likely never communicate with it, let alone visit it or it us. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

KA7RRA

02-20-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote[/b] (KG6YTZ @ Feb. 20 2006,02:51)]government coverups, and so on. #DO we have alien spacecraft in storage? #IS our government hiding the truth,
Yes to both questions thye know more than what thye are telling us

WA5KRP

02-20-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 20 2006,01:48)]Danny,

I get pessimistic just like you and Bill Joy (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html) from time to time. #I think my own worries started when I read about putting cockroach DNA in to corn plants, but everyone's sky falls a little differently.
You've brought some interesting links, Dave. The classic sci-fi futurists of my youth, e.g. Heinlein, Bradbury, Asimov, Sturgeon among the many, popularized visions of man's exploration and colonization of space and the implications of extra-terrestial encounters.

We've been going into space barely fifty years and authors have turned to microchips for their new frontier. Maybe the sci-fi of today will be much more fully realized in fifty years than space travel is today. The limitations of computing power remain unknown. Space has shown us its daunting limitations.

WA5KRP
Texas

ab8ma

02-20-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote[/b] (k4lem @ Feb. 20 2006,18:27)]From a purely scientific and statistical perspective, it stands to reason that there certainly can be life elsewhere.

Life, even intelligent life could exist on the other side of the galaxy, yet we would more than likely never communicate with it, let alone visit it or it us. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Yes, we could visit #if:

1) We could build a ship which could attain the speed of .999999999999 C in a hurry.
2) We knew the shortest path.
3) They were still there in 100,000 years when we arrive.

edit: almost forgot.

4) We could slow down again really fast http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

K9STH

02-20-2006, 09:38 PM

Remember the time-warp-continuium (sp?).

One theory has it as the speed of light is approached by an object the time that is consumed by the object is much less than that of the surroundings. Taking this to the extreme what is only a very short time to the object (i.e. seconds) could be literally hundreds of years to the surroundings.

If the speed of the object is greater then the speed of light then the apparent time of the object through the surroundings could be much greater. Then throw in the "worm holes", "black holes", etc., and you have the possibility of almost instantaneous travel over thousands of light years.

Glen, K9STH

kl7aj

02-20-2006, 09:54 PM

Seen one? Shucks, I AM one http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

eric

ab8ma

02-20-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 20 2006,21:38)]Remember the time-warp-continuium (sp?).

One theory has it as the speed of light is approached by an object the time that is consumed by the object is much less than that of the surroundings. #Taking this to the extreme what is only a very short time to the object (i.e. seconds) could be literally hundreds of years to the surroundings.

If the speed of the object is greater then the speed of light then the apparent time of the object through the surroundings could be much greater. #Then throw in the "worm holes", "black holes", etc., and you have the possibility of almost instantaneous travel over thousands of light years.

Glen, K9STH
Glen,

That seems to be the main problem with us ever actually meeting the elusive ET. The time it takes information to travel in the universe is instantaneous (as far as the information is concerned) but limited to the speed of light.

Lets assume that intelegent life existed elsware in the universe (and could spell). And lets assume that it had great resources and existed 200,000 years from bone breaking to interstellar exploration. Lets also assume that it went extinct after another 100,000 years.

The question I would raise would be "When was that?" The universe is around 15 Billion years old. Lets assume that this ET started evolving only 2 billion years ago http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

They could have visited us, say a mere 1 million years ago. Where were we?

Dozing? Evolving?

Time and space and the limits on both.

Too bad we learned about Mars. It held promise in our imaginations.

AB8MA - Bob

kd5rpo

02-20-2006, 11:48 PM

We have only scratched the surface of what Mars hay hold. We so far have no way to return rock and soil samples to determine if there is microbal life.

It would facinate me to find out if any such life may be similar to the DNA of our more primitive life here.

al2i

02-21-2006, 01:02 AM

Quote[/b] ]
My definition of UFOs?? "Ordinary objects seen under extraordinary conditions."

The vast, and I really mean vast majority of UFO sightings are identified under careful scrutiny, but a few are remarkable.

The
1952 B-29 Event near Galveston Texas (http://ufologie.net/htm/coleman52.htm) is one such remarkable event.

K8EEI

02-21-2006, 01:14 AM

What about Einstein's theory that as an object approaches the speed of light , it becomes larger , and when it reaches the speed of light , it becomes infinitely large .
I wonder if they'll ever prove or disprove that one . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

K9STH

02-21-2006, 01:20 AM

EEI:

Since researchers have recently been able to accelerate sub-atomic particles from below the speed of light to over the speed of light that portion of Einstein's theory has been disproved.

Glen, K9STH

al2i

02-21-2006, 01:39 AM

WA2ZDY

02-21-2006, 02:01 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0KBH @ Feb. 18 2006,00:33)]The other night, I woke up to get a drink of water at about 11:00 PM. #I looked, where I normally have a cup of water next to my bed, and I did that night, and it was gone! #I looked around, and it was on the floor, sitting upright, empty. #Although, I had a can of Mountain Dew about 2 hours before that.
Son, you did drink the water after drinking the pop. That's why you woke up at 11pm. Most folks are just going to bed by then.

I'm betting those aliens made you want to walk down the hallway when you woke up at 11pm too.

Yep, all that drinking, especially that triple dose of caffeine Mountain Dew, will do that to you. Just be glad you didn't pop a Tylenol PM; you'd have had very vivid nightmares too!

W5HTW

02-21-2006, 02:01 AM

Quote[/b] (K8EEI @ Feb. 20 2006,18:14)]What about Einstein's theory that as an object approaches the speed of light , it becomes larger , and when it reaches the speed of light , it becomes infinitely large .
I wonder if they'll ever prove or disprove that one . ???
The problem with that is a single atom would, at the speed of light, occupy the entire universe. So are we all parts of an atom, orbiting the nucleus?

Time warp presumes you can bend the path. Take a string. How do you get from one end of the string to the other? You move along the string and that takes time. But suppose you fold the string so that End A is almost touching End B. And then you leap across the gap. You have circumvented the time it would take to travel the string. We don't know how to bend the path to a distant star system so that we can leap the gap.

But Black Holes do. The violate the laws of physics because they not only bend light, but they slow it or speed it up. Our theory is that the gravitational pull of the Black Hole is so great light cannot escape. But what if the real story was light that is at the edge of the Black Hole is accelerated beyond the speed of light, so becomes invisible to our means of detection? The same result occurs - light isn't visible. (Hence "Black!")

You and I are not going to another solar system anytime soon. We'll wait for the bus. And it may be that no one will ever go to another solar system, as we may never learn how to "warp" the path.

Suppose, though, I could bend I-40 so that one end of it was here in New Mexico, and the other end, at the California coast, was ALSO here in New Mexico! I could, in a single step, go from New Mexico to California, on foot, easily. So the question is, would California 'know' it had been displaced and was now just two feet from my home in New Mexico? Would there be two Californias? Would folks in California think New Mexico had been moved there?

We'll never know.

The problem with UFOs is they are smart enough to visit our planet from some distant galaxy, but the only thing they can recognize as intelligent life is a drunk in the desert who won't be believed anyway. I think I'd land in downtown DC. Uh, come to think of it, maybe not. OK, maybe Miami. Uh, no, not there either.

Maybe the desert isn't such a bad choice after all.

Ed

KG6YTZ

02-21-2006, 05:16 AM

Quote[/b] (k4lem @ Feb. 20 2006,10:27)]Life, even intelligent life could exist on the other side of the galaxy, yet we would more than likely never communicate with it, let alone visit it or it us. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
True, but it COULD also exist right in our own back yard, relatively speaking, and still we may never be able to communicate with each other or even simply detect each other in any way.

Google "Drake Equation." #Or just try this link here (http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html). #That page has a form where you can plug in your own numbers. #Even their own guesses - and they are nothing more than guesses - turn up some interesting figures. #Using their estimates, the Drake Equation turns up a possible - not definite, not even probable, but possible - 1,000 extraterrestrial civilizations which could have established contact with at least one other.

Speculation, to be sure, but that's all the Drake Equation presents itself to be. #And those 1,000 potential communicating civilizations? #THAT'S JUST OUR OWN GALAXY. #For the universe as a whole, multiply that by an estimated 100 to 125 billion. #Actually, you can go ahead and do that no matter what result you get, because the Drake Equation calculates for only a single galaxy.

Note that I am NOT saying that there may be billions of alien societies connected with each other in a grand communications network across the entire universe, and they just don't want to invite us to the party. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #If you assume that no civilization has ever established contact with any other - this is what the Drake Equation estimates, civilizations in contact - then the numbers rise dramatically. #They would then simply represent a guess at the possible number of intelligent species in a given galaxy but does not assume that any of them are in contact.

How to blow your own mind via the Drake Equation:

Assuming a galaxy of 100 billion stars...
Assuming that 1/4 of them have planetary systems...
Assuming that at least one planet in each system can sustain life...
Assuming that life develops on only 1% of those planets...
Assuming that only 1% of that life develops intelligence...

That's a possibility of around 25,000 intelligent alien societies - past, present, or future - in one galaxy alone. #In the entire universe...? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The big question, I think, comes down NOT to whether there is, or could be, life elsewhere, intelligent or otherwise - the big question is whether, given the necessary conditions, the appearance of life is inevitable or whether we are simply a fluke of the universe. #Even using some very conservative values for the Drake Equation, it would appear that ours could be but one civilization among billions.

And we may never be aware of ANY of them. Talk about your rare DX... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

KG6YTZ

02-21-2006, 05:17 AM

Quote[/b] (KA7RRA @ Feb. 20 2006,11:02)]Quote[/b] (KG6YTZ @ Feb. 20 2006,02:51)]government coverups, and so on. #DO we have alien spacecraft in storage? #IS our government hiding the truth,
Yes to both questions # thye know more than what thye are telling us
Burden of proof, RRA... Burden of proof. Your turn. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

al2i

02-21-2006, 10:22 PM

One of my problems with the entire UFO phenominon has always been "Where are the professionals?" I mean, we have professional astronomers watching the skies and I would expect anything unusual to be noticed by those guys first.

When I asked a friend of mine who happens to have a degree in astronomy about this, he claims that strange things are observed all of the time, but that they are generally discounted as of no astronomical interest. When they are looked into, the answers are as elusive for the pros as for the rest of us. The flavor of the discussion is quite a bit different however.

Here is an example:
Notable NSL Image (http://bb.nightskylive.net/asterisk/viewtopic.php?t=291)

K8EEI

02-22-2006, 11:59 PM

Glen with one N ,

We have always known that a sub atomic particle , an electron , travels at the speed of light in an electric circuit . No?

ab8ma

02-23-2006, 12:17 AM

Quote[/b] (K8EEI @ Feb. 22 2006,23:59)]Glen with one N ,

We have always known that a sub atomic particle , an electron , travels at the speed of light in an electric circuit . #No?
No. Possibly in a vacuum, but not in a circuit.

W2ILP

02-23-2006, 12:52 AM

When I first got the eyeglasses I now wear, (which are the continuous transition type for both distance and reading) I thought that I saw UFOs. #It turned out that it was just an optical illusion. #The images I saw that were saucer like UFOish... i think were were actually inverted street lamps that were somehow optically projected skyward by my eyeglasses. #After I got used to wearing the glasses every day, I stopped seeing the UFOs. #I dunno how it worked, but my mind blanked them out as my eyes got accustomed to the glasses. #

Hmmmm...Maybe they were real UFOs and my eyeglasses are now blanking them out! #Can I be sure?

w2ilp (Inter-space Light Projections)...from transparent optical aliens?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

wa9cwx

02-23-2006, 02:10 AM

UFOs, have I seen one?

Yes.

Since I tend to get skiddish about being 'absolute' about such unusual concepts, I HAD to have certain things be true, in order for me to make that statement.

No 'lights', no nighttime ANYTHING, no movement, no short term observation, no 'distant' observation, no possibility of observation interference, personal or external (ie; not after a few 'drinks', or when ill, not through the bushes or clouds or between buildings or trees.
NO possibility it could be explained by ANY other explanation, that I was aware of, in conventional (non-quantum, or trans-physical explanations).

I SAW such a craft.

Daylight, round, 20 feet diameter, metalic appearing, 70 feet in the air, NO support or tether, NON-MOVING on a briskly windy day, no noise, I drove almost directly underneath it, saw it from almost a 300 degree angle (almost able to drive around it, at various distances). I would not leave my car, but this was in full daylight, 2:30 PM on a clear day. I observed it for near 20 minuets.

I am aware of the quantum nature of reality, the various theories that are used to discuss the phenomena, The Copenhagen interpretation, Many Worlds interpretation, non-local quantum effects, and current views relating to string theory, and Amit Goswamies' view of our reality.

I have read ALMOST every popular physics book in the last 25 years, starting with Fred Allen Wolfs' "Space, Time, and Beyond" when it was still a series of articles in the 70s, through, most recently, finishing Amits' "The Self Aware Universe" last fall.

In addition, I have read "almost" every scientific and semi-scientific UFO tome, including professional reviews of the Abduction confrence at MIT, and the original review of the first US scientific confrence on "possible contact" from the 60s. This is the one attended by Carl Sagan, Frank Drake, Margaret Mead, etc. And I have been reading Valee, Strieber, etc for YEARS.

This is my second hobby, after 40 CW.

Anybody that thinks that prosaic explanations can account for ANY of the actual phenomena that qualify
as truely unexplained, is just deluding themselves.
The "pro" debuners, Schirmer, Philip Glass, Mr "Amazing" etal (The "Skeptical Enquirer" gang), are as narrow minded and blind a group as have ever existed.

SOMETHING exists besides a simple billiard ball universe.

"It is not only stranger than we imagine, IT IS STRANGER THAN WE CAN IMAGINE."

Somewhere between the Gnostic Bible, Quantum foam, and conciousness, there is a trace of deep reality, and the 'UFO'-nauts, MAY be trying to tell us that.......

dit dit wooooooooooo

W2ILP

02-23-2006, 02:19 AM

Anyone who really wants to learn about UFO must read about Otis T. Carr. If you haven't read about his flying saucer you are missing a lot of sourcery. Just do a Google search on Otis T. Carr. I learned a lot from studying the work of Otis and this has helped me see things. I admit that my own inventions would never have been possible without walking on the shoulders of Carr.

w2ilp (Inventing Lift-less Planes)...using Carrian anti-gravity!

KE5FRF

02-23-2006, 02:32 AM

UFOs real?

I dunno, but I suspect many sightings are about as real as the giant green inchworm that a high school friend of mine says he saw while tripping on LSD.

N0WVA

02-23-2006, 03:01 AM

Yep, Ive seen what I would call "UFO'S".

Back on the farm in the late 80's and most of the 90's , even see them now, but not as often.

Mostly lights at night.

There seem to be different types,however. Some of them appear as a star and strobe brilliant colors, if you watch it long enough it simply dims out or turns ember red and bobbs around the sky past the horizon. Sometimes they split into two or three and go back together. No sound either.

Some creep up to the house along the horizon, treetop high.

One evening, two dull red lights fell from the sky down to about 10 foot or so in the field behind my dads house, my brother and I were watching TV and we seen them through the sliding glass door. They sort of "burned out" like coal, one was behind the other by a couple seconds. We went to the upper story and looked outside on the balcony, and the whole field lit up bright white for about five seconds. Then nothing more.

Recently had another experience like that, it was actually at the exact moment that a UFO "special" was coming on ABC at the top of the hour, and a glowing orb lit up and faded out in about eight seconds....really strange and perfect timing with the TV program.

In my experiance, whatever they are have some sort of ESP capabilities and are inter-dimensional.

The closest thing Ive found that describes what Ive seen is in Project Identification by Harvey Rutledge. He did a lot of hands on stuff, photography and documentaries in the SE Missouri area around Clearwater Lake in the early 70's , when they were entering and exiting from the lake itself and going into the sky.

These light are definately of some kind of intellegence. Really, you have to see it to believe it.