View Full Version : ABOUT TIME!!!! Kenwood 922A Linear on EBAY
All these guys asking questions trying to make this guy feel like he has a piece of junk or will not know how to ship the amp LOL.
Then of course the "CLASSIC HAM COP" question is asked.
And the seller replied with grace,
Quote[/b] ]Q: Don't you think you should verify that bidders actually are licensed to operate this equipment before you accept their bids? The current high bidder is a CB'er.....Check out his feedback and look at what he is buying. Jack K4MZW
Feb-08-06
#A: Hello Jack. I strongly feel that CB operators should not use amps on the 11 meter band. Since I am not the FCC, I am not going to attempt to enforce the law. I will leave that up to the authorities. Additionally, it is not illegal to purchase and possess a Ham amplifier if you are not licensed to operate it. The crime is not committed until the amp is used on the air, in an illegal and unlicensed manner. Rich W6Vx #
B
E
A #
UTIFUL!!!!!!
I AGREE WITH THE SELLER!! WAY TO GO RICH!
And if you feel he is wrong, call ANY of the online amateur radio dealers and buy an amplifier with no call sign, you too will be the proud owner of a new amp.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenwood....2762073 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenwood-TL-922A-HF-Linear-Amplifier-Brand-New-In-Box_W0QQitemZ5862762073)
KD6NIG
02-09-2006, 04:20 PM
Except for HRO. They have always asked for my licence whenever I purchase a transmitter or something that can be used to increase transmitter power. They don't for other purchases like antennas and repeater guides, however.
I wouldn't mind such a rule being mandated by the FCC either, if it would help, but you know that still, underground, the sales will occur. They will find thier stuff however and from whoever, no matter what.
Quote[/b] (AB9LX @ Feb. 09 2006,09:00)]Quote[/b] ]Q: Don't you think you should verify that bidders actually are licensed to operate this equipment before you accept their bids? The current high bidder is a CB'er.....Check out his feedback and look at what he is buying.
I didn't see a callsign associated with any of those bidders. And the fact that any of them buy CB gear means absolutely nothing.
Methinks there's someone with far too much time on his hands...
Any Amateur who knowingly sells an amp to a CBer is a disgrace to the service. On one hand we preach self regulation but only until it prevents us from making a buck?
Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 09 2006,09:41)]Any Amateur who knowingly sells an amp to a CBer is a disgrace to the service. #On one hand we preach self regulation but only until it prevents us from making a buck?
Disgrace he or she may be, but it's not illegal. As pointed out in the original thread:
Quote[/b] ]Additionally, it is not illegal to purchase and possess a Ham amplifier if you are not licensed to operate it. The crime is not committed until the amp is used on the air, in an illegal and unlicensed manner.
That said, if I knew an amp was going to end up on 11M, I #would not sell it to the individual. eBay, however, is a different ballgame altogether - many times, you don't know who or what is on the "...other end of the deal...".
Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 09 2006,09:54)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 09 2006,09:41)]Any Amateur who knowingly sells an amp to a CBer is a disgrace to the service. On one hand we preach self regulation but only until it prevents us from making a buck?
Disgrace he or she may be, but it's not illegal. As pointed out in the original thread:
And I did not say it was illegal, did I? Excellent non-point there, Skippy.
kf6rdn
02-09-2006, 05:22 PM
Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Feb. 09 2006,08:20)]Except for HRO. #They have always asked for my licence whenever I purchase a transmitter or something that can be used to increase transmitter power. #They don't for other purchases like antennas and repeater guides, however.
I wouldn't mind such a rule being mandated by the FCC either, if it would help, but you know that still, underground, the sales will occur. #They will find thier stuff however and from whoever, no matter what.
HRO asks for my callsign, but I think it's just a database reference. I got a dual band radio before I got licensed, for incentive. When I was upgrading, I got an HF radio, again no issue.
I did tell them what I was doing, maybe if I sounded "fishy" they might have not sold it.
kf6rdn
02-09-2006, 05:25 PM
Hey, I just looked, I bought my IC-756 off him!. He's a nice guy, have also talked to him on 17. Good op.
Heh.. small world.
By the way, you do not need to have your callsign to purchase amateur radio stuff off of ebay, only on a few message boards is this required. The bidders could very well be a licensed operator, even if they just buy pretty pink plush panties on ebay in the past. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
DOH!!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 09 2006,10:02)]Excellent non-point there, Skippy.
The point is: Why even worry about it.
By the way - My name is John (Fred, if on the air) - not Skippy.
Thank you.
Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 09 2006,10:35)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 09 2006,10:02)]Excellent non-point there, Skippy.
The point is: Why even worry about it.
My name is John (Fred, if on the air) - not Skippy.
Thank you.
Isn't that a peanut butter? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Choosy mothers choose JIF. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I will never sell any of my gear to anyone who's unlicensed. If I owned one of the big retailers everybody who calls would be checked against the FCC database.
ve2nsm
02-09-2006, 06:18 PM
Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Feb. 09 2006,13:48)]I will never sell any of my gear to anyone who's unlicensed. If I owned one of the big retailers everybody who calls would be checked against the FCC database.
And you would go bankrupcy too, faster than instantly http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
WA9SVD
02-09-2006, 06:20 PM
Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Feb. 09 2006,10:48)]Choosy mothers choose JIF. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I will never sell any of my gear to anyone who's unlicensed. If I owned one of the big retailers everybody who calls would be checked against the FCC database.
I understand your concern, but there are also laws against discrimination. I would never knowingly sell ANY equipment to ANYONE, CB'er, MURSian, FRSeak, etc. who would use equipment illegally, but that is not the point.
Since it is not the law (for better or worse) that sale of equipment is limited to sale to only those who are licensed, refusal to do so could land a person in trouble. At least for stock commercial gear. Modified gear, of whatever type CAN be sold to any licensed Amateur , or a dealer. (Then, it is the dealer's responsibility or liability,, not yours.) But at least unmodified commercial gear can be sold to anyone, licensed or not. By anyone. The wisdom of doing so, of course, is another matter. But that is where the law rears it's ugly head. You may NOT have the discretion to refuse sale (such as on eBay) for an auction item if a legitimate offer is made and accepted, without a valid reason. If you specified "licensed Amateurs only" at the time of placing an item for bid, it might be different, but with no disclaimer, you might find a bit of trouble, that could cause you more grief than even the equipment is worth.
The point is, it is NOT illegal for anyone, anywhere, to buy Amateur equipment. (Otherwise, think how many Xmas stockings would be empty...) In a personal sale, you DO have some discretion, but be careful to whom you sell, or just as importantly, to whom you refuse to sell. Right or wrong, it could cause a lot of grief.
BTW, HRO (Anaheim, CA) has ALWAYS asked for my call sign, whether I bought a H-T, a battery charger (useful for both Amateur and Marine band H-T's from Standard, back then,) a QST Archive CD, a Monitoring Times mag, or just a coax connector. Other than the H-T, I can't even imagine how any of those other items could possibly be used for illegal, immoral, or fattening purposes, but they STILL wanted my callsign before purchase. I'm sure it's just for their marketing (junk mail) database.
KA3RFE
02-09-2006, 06:28 PM
Someone without a license isn't mecessarily going to use a transmitter illegally. My family has bought radios for me as gifts without licenses. And i bought complete station gear before I was licensed. It was all set up and I used it to practice CW copy with and listen to traffic on the ham bands while studying for my license. The ham who came to my house and gave me my novice test was very entusiastic over my choices for gear and setup. All of it was bought from ham dealers and hamfests. Not once was I asked for my call sign.
Ebay, if I understand their rules, requires that items are to go to the highest bidder, am I correct?
Quote[/b] ]And you would go bankrupcy too, faster than instantly
How do you figure that?
Quote[/b] ]I understand your concern, but there are also laws against discrimination.
As long as I don't discriminate on the basis of race, creed, gender, or disability I can refuse to sell any of my goods to anyone. I would choose not to sell to unlicensed people and I would clearly state that fact in all advertising and on the premises.
Just because it's legal for unlicensed persons to own Ham Radio gear doesn't mean I have to sell it to them.
Quote[/b] (KA3RFE @ Feb. 09 2006,11:28)]Ebay, if I understand their rules, requires that items are to go to the highest bidder, am I correct?
Correct.
Waxing pedantic:
All of you who own HF transceivers and hold any license class less than Extra - please disable the illegal frequency ranges which your set happens to cover. After all - you're only licensed for a portion of said HF bands, correct?
(...same strawman, different day; applies equally to amplifiers and radios...)
KD6NIG
02-09-2006, 07:26 PM
Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ Feb. 09 2006,10:22)]Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Feb. 09 2006,08:20)]Except for HRO. #They have always asked for my licence whenever I purchase a transmitter or something that can be used to increase transmitter power. #They don't for other purchases like antennas and repeater guides, however.
I wouldn't mind such a rule being mandated by the FCC either, if it would help, but you know that still, underground, the sales will occur. #They will find thier stuff however and from whoever, no matter what.
HRO asks for my callsign, but I think it's just a database reference. #I got a dual band radio before I got licensed, for incentive. #When I was upgrading, I got an HF radio, again no issue.
I did tell them what I was doing, maybe if I sounded "fishy" they might have not sold it.
I remember them asking me when I made my first purchase, then they checked again when I purchased my last radio.
But, mailorder, as long as I provide my customer number and callsign, they haven't bothered me for it. I'm guessing they check it, but who knows.
When my wife did her first order though, they called her and asked for a faxed copy. She told me she should have just had me order, but she was ordering me a radio for my birthday and didn't want me knowing either, so she faxed.
ai4ep
02-09-2006, 08:29 PM
great idea....glad I did that when I was selling a president/uniden hr-2510 10 meter all mode mobile radio ( complete with mounting bracket, mike, manual, etc ) here on qrz yesterday. I sold it within less than 24 hours of posting it ( fairly quick ). It sold for the asking price of $400.00...which IS a bargain.
It just goes to show, that when you offer quality merchandise and at a give away price the potential BUYERS will come out of the woodwork, with money in hand...and you wont have to re-post it later , etc, etc, etc.
...and no it aint been modified for " out-of-band" usage. But thanks for thinking of that.
THANKS to qrz for helping make this great event occur.
AI4EP http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
WA9SVD
02-09-2006, 10:42 PM
Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Feb. 09 2006,11:35)]]
As long as I don't discriminate on the basis of race, creed, gender, or disability I can refuse to sell any of my goods to anyone. I would choose not to sell to unlicensed people and I would clearly state that fact in all advertising and on the premises.
As long as you stated up front, it might not be a problem, but if you put an item up, and later refused to sell to the highest bidder (on eBay for example) you might be in for a bit of a problem. (Not my idea, just an observation of legal issues in the past.) Actually, the legal determination often is: DO you have a valid (i.e., legal) reason NOT to sell the item? By putting the item up for auction, you are actually agreeing to an implied contract that you WILL sell to the winning bid.
If you own and sell from a retail store, there ARE other factors that may apply, but remember, you can always be accused of discrimination if you balk at a sale and the buyer is willing to meet the original demand. And (again, for better or worse) if you were selling equipment that could legally be sold to anyone, you might be required by law (and business license) to sell to anyone.
But all that is technicalities. It is legal for a ham to sell even a CB amp to another ham (the only time a license requirement in regard to equipment procurement or ownership is mentioned in the FCC rules) or a dealer. Atfter that point, it is the responsibility of the buyer or dealer to dispose or use it properly.
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 09 2006,13:29)]great idea....glad I did that when I was selling a president/uniden hr-2510 10 meter all mode mobile radio ( complete with mounting bracket, mike, manual, etc ) here on qrz yesterday. I sold it within less than 24 hours of posting it ( fairly quick ). It sold for the asking price of $400.00...which IS a bargain.
It just goes to show, that when you offer quality merchandise and at a give away price the potential BUYERS will come out of the woodwork, with money in hand...and you wont have to re-post it later , etc, etc, etc.
...and no it aint been modified for " out-of-band" usage. But thanks for thinking of that.
THANKS to qrz for helping make this great event occur.
AI4EP http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
When you buy "President/Uniden" you pay for the name.
Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 09 2006,10:35)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 09 2006,10:02)]Excellent non-point there, Skippy.
The point is: Why even worry about it.
By the way - My name is John (Fred, if on the air) - not Skippy.
Thank you.
No problem Skippy.
ve2nsm
02-09-2006, 11:24 PM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 09 2006,16:29)]I was selling a president/uniden hr-2510 10 meter all mode mobile radio ( complete with mounting bracket, mike, manual, etc ) here on qrz yesterday. I sold it within less than 24 hours of posting it ( fairly quick ). It sold for the asking price of $400.00...which IS a bargain.
WHAT?
400 bucks for an HR 2510? ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
After that YOU complain the prices of used radios are too high? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Who's the fish?
EDIT:
No, better if you don't say it after all http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
WA9SVD
02-10-2006, 12:10 AM
And a 922A is going to accomplish what? It won't help the average CB'er who wants to go illegally ballistic; it would STILL have to be modified for 10/11 M use; and the typical CB radio won't provide enough drive to make it work worth diddly.
It's a LEGAL Ham amp. It's not directly usable by CB'ers. They have cheaper, junkier, more powerful (by CB standard claims) amps to buy at their local truck stop.
K4KWH
02-10-2006, 12:26 AM
When I put equipment up for sale such as amplifiers, I ask for a callsign and make it clear that I will not sell to non-licensed people. This in particular refers to amplifiers. I once had an mobile amp for sale at a hamfest. The price tag said $10,000. Licensed hams, $350!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #I *think* the CBers that drooled over it got the message!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
73
K7KBN
02-10-2006, 12:48 AM
How many of us bought our "first" transmitters before we were actually licensed? #My folks wouldn't let me order my Globe Chief Deluxe until I had passed my Novice test (and they got that confirmed by my electronics teacher who happened to be my "VE" - a term that didn't exist back then). #Neither Leo nor any of his staff questioned the legality of an as-yet unlicensed individual buying such an item...even if I, as a Novice, could only use 75 watts of input power, and the Globe Chief Deluxe could do (gasp!) #NINETY watts!
Then, as now, it was the OPERATOR who was responsible for the legal operation of the equipment.
wd0ct
02-10-2006, 01:25 AM
Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 09 2006,16:24)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 09 2006,16:29)]I was selling a president/uniden hr-2510 10 meter all mode mobile radio ( complete with mounting bracket, mike, manual, etc ) here on qrz yesterday. I sold it within less than 24 hours of posting it ( fairly quick ). It sold for the asking price of $400.00...which IS a bargain.
WHAT?
400 bucks for an HR 2510? ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
After that YOU complain the prices of used radios are too high? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Who's the fish?
EDIT:
No, better if you don't say it after all http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Yep, ole smarter than the average earthworm ep sold that badass radio for $400 confederate to the first cber he told about it.
You don't really believe any crap ep posts do you?
Quote[/b] (k7kbn @ Feb. 09 2006,17:48)]Then, as now, it was the OPERATOR who was responsible for the legal operation of the equipment.
Precisely.
And all the stamping, screaming and gyrating by the "Kilocycle Kops" isn't gonna change that fact...
ve2nsm
02-10-2006, 02:57 AM
Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ Feb. 09 2006,21:25)]You don't really believe any crap ep posts do you?
Now I have a doubt... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
WA5VQM
02-10-2006, 03:28 AM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 09 2006,13:29)]great idea....glad I did that when I was selling a president/uniden hr-2510 10 meter all mode mobile radio ( complete with mounting bracket, mike, manual, etc ) here on qrz yesterday. I sold it within less than 24 hours of posting it ( fairly quick ). It sold for the asking price of $400.00...which IS a bargain.
It just goes to show, that when you offer quality merchandise and at a give away price the potential BUYERS will come out of the woodwork, with money in hand...and you wont have to re-post it later , etc, etc, etc.
...and no it aint been modified for " out-of-band" usage. But thanks for thinking of that.
THANKS to qrz for helping make this great event occur.
AI4EP http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Wow! I guess I'd better put mine on the market pronto!
BTW I've bought quite a few ham related things off of eBay and my screen name has nothing to do with or hints in any way that I'm a ham. I usually include my call in the e-mails though.
I've sold a few ham odds and ends but nothing that would be of any use to a CBer. If I sell any of my boatanchors a CBer probably wouldn't want one anyway. Anything more apt to be used by a CBer or Freebander would require a ham call and I would state such in the auction.
73, Mark
W9QNE
02-10-2006, 04:53 AM
I have never been asked for my call sign on Ebay & I have bought & sold 10's of $1000's of Ham radio equipment on it. But I have never got or expected some Idiot to pay me $400 for a Uniden HR-2510. What a pile of junk. Not even a good CB radio. Far less Ham radio. Poor guy.
I did a search on Ebay & the last few that have sold was listed in the CB section & The highest priced one that sold was $175 & another for $125. There are 5 listed right now & so far the highest bid is $102.
What kind of Good Elmer would sell such a poor radio to a fellow ham. For $400 even? But, now a CB'er, I maybe can understand that. Who cares? Because we are Ham's & of course none of us would ever lower ourselves to talk on the Children's Band. Now would we? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
wa9cwx
02-10-2006, 05:39 AM
I too sell fairly often on eBay, and have sold an amp,
A home brew 4-1000A monster, sold to a ham who drove here in a snowstorm from New England to pick it up!
It never dawned on me to list "hams only' when I listed it.
However, even though fully legal, I don't give a damn about WHAT the selling cicumstanceses COULD be, I simply would not sell an amp to someone who obviously was going to use it on CB. Period.
If I ever list an amp again, I WILL list it as only available to an appropriate licensee.
ai4ep
02-10-2006, 12:24 PM
Methinks it is just a simple matter of --- if YOU were selling it for $400 it would be great, fine and dandy...but since some one else did it , it stinks.
Simple & to the point.
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 10 2006,05:24)]Methinks it is just a simple matter of --- if YOU were selling it for $400 #it would be great, fine and dandy...but since some one else did it , it stinks.
Doesn't stink @ all...know anybody else who wants one? I have a couple I'll turn loose for that price!
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 10 2006,05:24)]Methinks it is just a simple matter of --- if YOU were selling it for $400 #it would be great, fine and dandy...but since some one else did it , it stinks.
Simple & to the point.
42 on dat driva! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Feb. 09 2006,14:26)]Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ Feb. 09 2006,10:22)]Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Feb. 09 2006,08:20)]Except for HRO. They have always asked for my licence whenever I purchase a transmitter or something that can be used to increase transmitter power. They don't for other purchases like antennas and repeater guides, however.
I wouldn't mind such a rule being mandated by the FCC either, if it would help, but you know that still, underground, the sales will occur. They will find thier stuff however and from whoever, no matter what.
HRO asks for my callsign, but I think it's just a database reference. I got a dual band radio before I got licensed, for incentive. When I was upgrading, I got an HF radio, again no issue.
I did tell them what I was doing, maybe if I sounded "fishy" they might have not sold it.
I remember them asking me when I made my first purchase, then they checked again when I purchased my last radio.
But, mailorder, as long as I provide my customer number and callsign, they haven't bothered me for it. I'm guessing they check it, but who knows.
When my wife did her first order though, they called her and asked for a faxed copy. She told me she should have just had me order, but she was ordering me a radio for my birthday and didn't want me knowing either, so she faxed.
AES checked my call whenever I ordered too. It would seem that claiming that it happens elsewhere as justification for not checking is justify one wrong with another. Also, people have been fined for OWNING a linear if they didn't have the license for it.
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Feb. 10 2006,06:12)]Also, people have been fined for OWNING a linear if they didn't have the license for it.
Got any examples (EB notices, etc) of this?
HRO has never asked me for anything other than to put me in their computer.
N3TTN
02-10-2006, 07:24 PM
Quote[/b] ]Except for HRO. They have always asked for my licence whenever I purchase a transmitter or something that can be used to increase transmitter power. They don't for other purchases like antennas and repeater guides, however.
Same here, and I can understand why a retail business like HRO would be more comfortable doing that. Now, a private individual seller is another matter, and I personally would not knowingly sell an amateur transceiver or amp to an unlicensed individual, but I agree with the premise that we as licensees are not the "ham police" and what are you going to do anyway??...conduct a background check on every prospective buyer??? That's neither practical or neccessary in my opinion, and I think common sense is all that's needed in most cases. If you have serious doubts that a buyer might be unlicensed or intends to use your gear in an illegal manner, then by all means, don't sell it to them. OTOH, if someone represents themselves as a licensed individual, then you sell the item to them in good faith that they have been honest with you, and you don't lose any sleep over it.
WA9SVD
02-11-2006, 12:07 AM
Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 10 2006,06:35)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Feb. 10 2006,06:12)]Also, people have been fined for OWNING a linear if they didn't have the license for it.
Got any examples (EB notices, etc) of this?
The fine print in some of the rules and regs do state that posession of an amp, capable of operation in the 24-30 MHz range, and allowing low drive, (e.g., 5 Watts) is assumed to be illegal unless owned by a licensed Amateur Radio operator. THAT is to clear up the CB linear problem, or so the FCC thought.
Then again, the comment said "without the license..." which would be an Amateur Radio license, or possibly a business band or other service licensed for the 24-30 MHz services. But the law DOES specify that the owner of such an amp capable of operation in that range MUST posess a valid FCC license for that service. For the most part, that is only Amateur Radio Licensees.
ai4ep
02-11-2006, 10:52 PM
....so if a person has a cb station in his home, and a illegal linear amplifier nearby, but NOT hooked up ( via coax or ac power cord ) he is STILL guilty in the eyes of the FCC ?
hmmmm :rock:
mighty interesting !!
If so, at least I aint guilty. I got the base, but no amp.......gee. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
so if your high - powered cb base station wont walk on my itty-bitty station, that is YOUR problem with YOUR equipment, not me nor mine. ;)
N1XHF
02-11-2006, 11:55 PM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 10 2006,16:52)]....so if a person has a cb station in his home, and a illegal linear amplifier nearby, but NOT hooked up ( via coax or ac power cord ) he is STILL guilty in the eyes of the FCC ?
hmmmm :rock:
mighty interesting !!
If so, at least I aint guilty. I got the base, but no amp.......gee. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
so if your high - powered cb base station wont walk on my itty-bitty station, that is YOUR problem with YOUR equipment, not me nor mine. ;)
What did you sell the 2510 so you could get yourself a new cobra 200gtl? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
ai4ep
02-12-2006, 12:39 AM
...no printer paper and ink.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
WA9SVD
02-12-2006, 01:14 AM
AI4EP:
That is almost accurate. While NOT part of the Amateur rules, there is a FCC rule, Part 95.411 © that states "The FCC will presume you have used a linear or other external RF power amplifier if:
(1) It is in your posession or on your premises AND
(2) there is other evidence you have operated a CB station above the power limets set in the (other regs.)
There is a specific exemption for holders of a license for services which allow use of power amps on frequencies below 35 MHz. That includes Public Service, probably many "business band" operators, probably some taxi cab companies, and of course, Amateurs.
But if there is suspicion or evidence of use of a power amp at some point, the presence of an amp later, even if not connected at the time, would still amount to a violation, according to the FCC.
The "fudge factor" is part (2) where evidence of USE of an amp is required to make it a violation to posess a "CB" type amp. But that's all Part 95, (which I had to look up) which covers "Personal Radio Services," and not part of the Amateur Rules and Regs, which are Part 97.
So according to the old adage, and Part 95, "Posession is 9/10 of the law..."
Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Feb. 10 2006,17:07)]The fine print in some of the rules and regs do state that posession of an amp, capable of operation in the 24-30 MHz range, and allowing low drive, (e.g., 5 Watts) is assumed to be illegal unless owned by a licensed Amateur Radio operator.
For purposes of this discussion: What do the rules state about owning a "high drive" amplifier (such as the TL922 mentioned in the subject line of this thread), particularly when it is not being used on the air?
IOW - someone buys it for the day they're licensed to use it...
ai4ep
02-12-2006, 02:58 AM
svd...so...in simple terms --- if it is in your home, and even IF it aint plugged in ( ac / dc power ) or physically via COAX hooked up between your cb rig and your cb base antenna...you "look " guilty in the eyes of the FCC ( and you would have a hard time convincing them otherwise ).
THAT information IS all I need to know, even though I aint guilty....I worked hard and long ( years ) for these EXTRA CLASS PRIVILEGES, and I dont plan to lose them in a technicality of attempting to be louder on a band ( cb ) that really does not matter anyway.
2 things electronically I cherish every day --
ability to post here on qrz
&
extra class amateur radio license.
THANKS to FRED and all the good folks here at qrz for putting up with me...and thanks to the FCC for making it so EASY to become an extra class operator.
Sometimes I am a pain ( strange to understand ) with my lousy words here on a computer, but I am a LOT easier to get along with IN PERSON. On-the-radio is kind of a medium between the two.
=====
I know 99% of you folks wont care ( but you are gonna read this anyway )...but it is getting harder and harder to find a LEGAL 40 channel ( with or without ssb ) CB base station these days. Most of the newer models have " bands " ( above and below the ordinary LEGAL 40 am/ssb channels set aside by the fcc in 1977 )...so...folks like me that want to be legal have to resort to --- older legal cb bases that arent being made any more ...or..resort to using a mobile cb on a ac/dc power supply ( legal 40 channel model { ssb or just am } ) . I aint getting one of those new RANGER / GALAXY rigs with all those frequencies in them just to talk on the legal regular 40 channels ( usually 9 / 19 )...nope, not me.
IF & when the FCC ever comes to my home, I want them to know real quickly that they wasted their time checking out my station for illegal frequencies / amplifiers/operation...I like being legal, sure I dont get to talk to any one / every one, but those choice FEW folks that I DO get to talk to mean a lot more to me than having a guilty conscience of doing things illegally. No, it just aint worth it ( short or long term ).
---arent you glad you are reading the short version ?? ---
hee hee hee
AI4EP
N5LRZ
02-12-2006, 07:36 AM
I agree with EP...
If the FCC ever came to my house I would welcome them, give them some good strong southern coffee and after thy had found that my little less than 100 watt radio with no amp and a low cloud warmer wire antenna posed no threat to national security I would pick their brain as to how to make my station better. I mean afterall since they are here just as soon get a few tips from the pros in the field.
And Like EP I cherish my Extra Status far too much to put it in danger by any kind of illegal radio operation.
I would have absolutely no problem with the FCC if they required as a matter of law that anyone/including Ebay/ including individuals, who sell amateur radio equipment get a copy of the purchasers valid FCC Radio license and a copy of a picture drivers license so as to determine that the purchaser is indeed who they are and does have a valid license to use the equipment. That such a requirement of a mere photo copy of ID and License is NOT an extreme requirement/photo copiers and computer scanners being so common place these days/ be considered as the normal red tape in the sale of any transaction involving equipment that can be used illegally does not give me any cause for concern. When one knowingly/deliberately sells something that is legal for them to use but illegal to someone else use, does that not make them (the seller) just as guilty as the guilty person doing the purchasing.
Someone posted above that they are not and did not want to be the Radio Police. I do not ask said person that you be the radio police or to actually enforce the regs yourself in person if you do not wish. I would as an official helper of the FCC, but that is just me. BUT I do demand that you turn into the FCC anyone who violates/major infractions of the rules and regs of any radio band--which includes those who use illegal power on the CB Bands and or those who transmit out of CB Band (freebanders).
All that is required for evil to grow and prosper is that good people do absolutely NOTHING to stop it.
R Arceneaux
N5LRZ
WA9SVD
02-12-2006, 08:00 AM
AI4EP & N8YX:
I don't make the rules, I just tried to reiterate what the FCC rules said: they don't like CB'ers to have linear amps, and the details are in Part 95.
As to something like the TL-922, I don't think I've mentioned that at all in that regard, but such an amp would require a "mod" to operate on 10 M, (and presumably 11 M) which is perfectly legal for an Amateur who has privileges of General or above. And any commercial amp sold today requires MUCH more drive than a (legal) CB radio can provide. Posession of such an amp should not be a problem for anyone, unless there's proof of it being used on other than the Amateur bands.
As I pointed out from the Part 95 rule, IF you own a "CB" capable amp, (i.e. low drive, and operates between 24 and 35 MHz) and have been suspected of operating above the legal power for CB, the FCC will assume you used such an amp on CB, whether it's currently connected or not. That is THEIR rule. On the other hand, IF you have an Amateur license, (or presumably certain business radio licenses) the posession of such an amp is considered legitimate.
Again, that's the FCC rule, at least as I understand it. I'm not making any judgement as to whether it's right or wrong, wise or unwise.
If you want to read the gory details, just go to "fcc.gov " and choose "wireless telecommunications bureau," then "rules and regs" and you can see all of Part 95, which covers CB, MURS, FRS, GMRS, and some other services.
VE7NOT
02-12-2006, 08:09 AM
Need i say that's only been that last ten years,
In the late 90's I got on 11m but as a mid teen who knew better then to show off. I ran legal. Except for one thing. yes I tried dx in 99/2000 the hight of the sunspot. I was married by then (I was only 19 when i got married) but I remember being in an apartment with my antron99 on it side ovetr the rail on a legal cb channel 38lsb calling cq... a New mexico station answer. I had a QSO 12W Yes just the legal 12 watts on an over used fequency.
After 2000 though export took over.. Today you have 2 choices.export which gives more range (probably 99% will never worry about the extra channels above 28Mhz)
Or... legal that should be in quotes. channel 6 27.025 socal.. parking lots...walmart6s.. big suvs with whips.. check it out. I seen it. I heard it in the late 90's thought it was a silly think keydowns. It;s not. The FCC couldn't even try to do a thing about it. There are usually 20-50 guys in aprking lot at a time skipshooting. On AM (stupid you say... well 4watts I works 2500 miles try that) they use 10,000 watts at times.
Never ever been a keysowner myself i prefered local cb on am channeels or ssb channels for night chatting with serious folk (most ssb cb is hams anyway)
Now as for using ,linears. That's normal in my area where IC has said to cbers don't intefer with anyone. One time thwy had an antenna array.. they don't have a thing now. Yes Indusry Canada does not monitor from offices anymore. The RCMP used to have receivers with full coverage all mode to get illegal users... not anymore. It's silly to try when it's not a probelem really.
Freeband like co[poer etc are common here but second hand As a result our regualr am channels are clear for truckers, local use and families in this low spot in sunspot (i hope it lasts)
Exports now are more families up in canada.usa talking to mexico.south america when dx is slightly open.. maybe if they can monitor 11m for the slighyt opening we could use 10m more ... an observation.
I use 11m for family.local communication.. no 'skip' now so it athey way it shoudl be. Amps are often used by some though. No one cares.. we live with mountains you need more the 4 or 12w sometimes.. Now the best would be
49MHz 100w fm.. no one cares though
Wityh code being dropped here thogu 80m is coming up for those that can pass the wirtten which is good. 80m is a great local band
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
KG6YTZ
02-12-2006, 08:34 AM
MY two bits...
My eBay user name is what it has always been, and it is not my call sign, nor does it even contain my call sign. #Indeed, I have been on eBay FAR longer than I have been a ham. #Does that automatically mean that nobody on eBay should sell me any amateur equipment simply because I choose not to change the name that I had been using for several years before I got my license?
It is impossible to prove that anyone on eBay is NOT a ham simply by looking at user names or even their recent purchases. #One could look at my history and see that I recently bought a CB bracket, and infer anything they want from that. #HOWEVER, unless you also know that I bought that bracket to match up with an existing bracket of the same type in order to form a mounting "cage" system for my Icom 2100, which replaced the CB in the car, then the mere fact that I bought a CB bracket means exactly jack squat as evidence of anything.
FWIW, on those few occasions when I have bid on any amateur gear, I've always informed the seller of my call sign.
PE1RDW
02-12-2006, 09:53 AM
Can someone explain to me how a CB user on 27.555 running 10 KW will effect me?
Quote[/b] ]As to something like the TL-922, I don't think I've mentioned that at all in that regard, but such an amp would require a "mod" to operate on 10 M, (and presumably 11 M) which is perfectly legal for an Amateur who has privileges of General or above. And any commercial amp sold today requires MUCH more drive than a (legal) CB radio can provide. Posession of such an amp should not be a problem for anyone, unless there's proof of it being used on other than the Amateur bands.
Exactly what I was driving at...apples vs. oranges. I'll get to the "CB amps" subject in a second.
The fact that someone does not possess an amateur radio license does not automatically make them a CBer. As I read through the various posts on this site, I see many examples of this...lots of folks have never touched a CB rig before or after becoming licensed. There's a good chance that many of these folks bought amateur radio equipment before they were licensed for its use. Code practice and all that, right?
About those CB amps:
As long as items like THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com/Deer-Hunter-100-LINEAR-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ5866234098QQcategoryZ48700QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem) or <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/TEXAS-STAR-DX-IIIV-LINEAR-AMPLIFIER-MODULATOR_W0QQitemZ5866115309QQcategoryZ48700QQrdZ 1QQc
mdZViewItem" target="_blank">THIS</a> or <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenrich-Eagle-200-Ham-Radio-Linear-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ5866056204QQcategoryZ48700QQrdZ 1QQcm
dZViewItem" target="_blank">THIS</a> or THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com/Linear-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ5865982867QQcategoryZ48700QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem) are allowed on eBay and other auction sites, no one has a valid reason to carp about an amateur-radio amp showing up on same.
(IOW: Cast the beam out thine eye before the speck outta mine...or something to that effect.)
You hamfest organizers need to get in on the action, too. Every 'fest I've attended in recent memory had at least one table full of modded CBs, "export" radios and power amplifiers for sale.
I will not use the word "linear" in describing these. They're anything but.
Refund the seller's table fees and send 'em packing. That's a way for you to have a direct effect on the problem...
Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Feb. 12 2006,02:53)]Can someone explain to me how a CB user on 27.555 running 10 KW will effect me?
When said CBer is a short distance from you and is inducing field strengths in excess of a volt on your antennas...AND your rig has a low IP (is susceptible to cross-modulation)...
WA9SVD
02-12-2006, 11:37 PM
Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Feb. 12 2006,02:53)]Can someone explain to me how a CB user on 27.555 running 10 KW will effect me?
10 kW? How 'bout when it dims the lights in the entire neighborhood??? <<<GRIN>>>
I donn't think I said posession or purchase of an Amateur grade amp by anyone was illegal, or anything of the sort. And as the fine print in the Part 95 states, posession is only considered a violation of FCC rules if there are other reasons to suspect that illegal CB operations have taken place.
Fact is, (at least IMHO) legal CB operations almost never pose a threat to either neighbors or Amateur Radio. It's only when operators choose to operate outside and beyond Part 95 Rules and regs (such as power output) that they cause problems. Lets face it, legal CB is tantamount to QRP, +/- ~4 dB.!
K4KWH
02-13-2006, 12:02 AM
Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 12 2006,08:44)]<snip>
You hamfest organizers need to get in on the action, too. Every 'fest I've attended in recent memory had at least one table full of modded CBs, "export" radios and power amplifiers for sale.
I will not use the word "linear" in describing these. They're anything but.
Refund the seller's table fees and send 'em packing. That's a way for you to have a direct effect on the problem...
<quote>
Now yer TALKIN'! I have suggested that many times. Each time, the hamfest organizations sidestepped the issue by saying "Well, we might get sued for discrimination!" #DUH! #Nope! #I pointed out that their registrations stated "No #fire arms, knives, pornography, or other illegal items or activity". #Uh, all they gotta do is ADD "No illegal CB amplifiers or other FCC non-certified equipment allowed!" #Why don't they do it?
Because they are more concerned with the $$ than what's right! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
WA9SVD
02-13-2006, 12:26 AM
Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Feb. 12 2006,17:02)]Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 12 2006,08:44)]<snip>
You hamfest organizers need to get in on the action, too. Every 'fest I've attended in recent memory had at least one table full of modded CBs, "export" radios and power amplifiers for sale.
I will not use the word "linear" in describing these. They're anything but.
Refund the seller's table fees and send 'em packing. That's a way for you to have a direct effect on the problem...
<quote>
Now yer TALKIN'! I have suggested that many times. Each time, the hamfest organizations sidestepped the issue by saying "Well, we might get sued for discrimination!" DUH! Nope! I pointed out that their registrations stated "No fire arms, knives, pornography, or other illegal items or activity". Uh, all they gotta do is ADD "No illegal CB amplifiers or other FCC non-certified equipment allowed!" Why don't they do it?
Because they are more concerned with the $$ than what's right! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
OK, on a technicallity, you would close down the swapmeet.
You said:
"No illegal CB amplifiers or other FCC non-certified equipment allowed!"
Well, "other FCC non-certified equipment" would apply to a lot, if not all, of Amateur equipment, which does not require FCC certification.
And as a minor point, there is no such thing as a LEGAL CB amplifier; they are all illegal.
But as another legal technicality, it IS perfectly legal for an Amateur to sell a reputed "CB amp" to another licensed Amateur. So the swapmeet organizers are correct; if they were to try to ban legal sales, they could be sued, whether rightly or wrongly..
ai4ep
02-13-2006, 01:23 AM
...so...in simple terms ...it is more or less a system of --
" Dont do as I do...do as I say " !! ?
I have learned that ( through the radio conversations AND seeing words on the monitor screen of the internet ) many folks think it is OK for THEM to marginally / major way break / bend the fcc rules and regulations --- but --- if YOU do the same thing, you should be fined, equipment taken away, license revoked, etc...etc.
I and you have seen cases of that a lot, even in the course of just one year of being active licensed amateurs....even as a NCT, with no HF privileges.
But THAT is nothing new to you, since you already knew that, didnt ya ?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
kf6rdn
02-13-2006, 06:47 AM
On, one of the auctions 'yx listed, in the question from buyers:
Q: Do you you know if this radio is set up for 11 meter or been used on a mobile cb. Thanks Clete
A: It was used on mobile CBs. Don't know about 11 meter if it would work or not. Thanks for looking.
Duh? Damn, I wanted an 11 meter amp, not a CB amp! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
WA9SVD
02-13-2006, 07:20 AM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Feb. 12 2006,18:23)]...so...in simple terms ...it is more or less a system of --
" Dont do as I do...do as I say " !! ?
I have learned that ( through the radio conversations AND seeing words on the monitor screen of the internet ) many folks think it is OK for THEM to marginally / major way break / bend the fcc rules and regulations --- but --- if YOU do the same thing, you should be fined, equipment taken away, license revoked, etc...etc.
I and you have seen cases of that a lot, even in the course of just one year of being active licensed amateurs....even as a NCT, with no HF privileges.
But THAT is nothing new to you, since you already knew that, didnt ya ?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ep:
It's basically knowing and following the law. It's not legal to USE an amp (of any kind) on CB. If you are SUSPECTED of using one, and you have one in your posession an amp that operates between 24 and 35 MHz, the FCC assumes you used it on CB. (That is THEIR determination.)
If you are a licensed Amateur or holder of a business band radio license, then the posession of an amp usable between 24 and 35 MHz is not considered illegal, since such license holders CAN use an amplifier on certain frequencies in that range.
The only real "I can do it but you can't" sort of situation occurs because of posession of a proper license. That's not bending the rules, or breaking the law, that's merely following the rules. What could be more simple than that? I'm sorry if you don't agree with the FCC rules and regs, but that is something you would have to discuss with the FCC. Amateur Operators don't make the rules,the FCC does. And we are expected to abide by those rules. I'm not quite sure to what you refer when you talk about "bending/breaking" the rules.
ai4ep
02-13-2006, 10:36 AM
svd...just some folks attitude toward other operators...just like you will find with traffic on the road, and other ways of life. Folks who think their waste products dont have an odor.
No insult toward any one in general, just the way things are here in the year 2006.
But... ( on a positive note ) things will get better, and if there was an HF frequency where we could all get together and actually TALK to each other, it would be great. I tthink we would get along a lot better there than some of us do here on the internet. Personally I have a rough time expressing myself here via the keyboard ( and most of you notice that ) and I appear meaner and snobbish more than I am in real life. I DO apologise for looking THAT way, and .... that is about it. I do the best I can in that individual moment, and pray for the best....like all of you do. I dont want no problems with any one, and in 99% of the cases will attempt to " bend over back wards " to keep peace amongst us ( the other 1% aint worth worrying about ).
There
I done went and got long winded again, timed out the repeater and rattled so long the band shifted and I cant hear you ( or you hear me ) no more.
Good morning to all...yep, even YOU.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
AI4EP
Here's another use for those CB "linears" - the tube versions, that is. Most of the solid-state units would make good landfill, or doorstops.
How many of you have a CW QRP transceiver such as an HW7/8/9, RockMite, Tentec PowerMite, etc? Ever wanted a cheap, yet effective set of "boots" for it?
Get a 2-tube CB amp and convert it. I came across a "Kemtron 101" many years ago and built it into a nifty PA for my HW8. You'll want one with enough case space for a decent PI (or PI-L) network and related bandswitch. The Palomar 300, Maverick, Kemtron and similar models are ideal for this conversion.
1) Remove the existing plate-matching network and install a tuning cap of ~250pf (1KV or better plate spacing), a loading cap of ~500-750pf (250v plate spacing) and a ceramic 4-position rotary switch which is capable of 5-10A current per contact. Multiple decks can be used...just parallel the contacts for increased current handling capacity.
2) Dive into your ARRL Handbooks and have a look at a typical plate-matching circuit. Extrapolate coil value and tap points from an existing, similar design...or (if you're familiar with the design of such matching networks) calculate the values and obtain the required coil. Install and connect tap points to switch accordingly.
3) Consider adding a tuned input to the rig. A shaft extension attached to the rear of the bandswitch, coupling and gear drive can be used to facilitate "tracking". My amp didn't require a tuned input...your mileage may vary.
4) Remove the carrier-operated relay circuit from the amp and make provisions for direct keying of the antenna changeover relay. Modify your transmitter to include a TX switching circuit - if it doesn't already have one. Bear in mind that you'll likely be switching 12-16V @ 500ma, so spec your switching transistor accordingly.
5) Look at the published characteristics of the tubes in your amp (check a tube manual, the Handbook, etc). You want to set bias on the tubes for Class C operation. Most of these amps obtain their bias via a Zener diode and/or resistor from cathode to ground. Inspect the parts and change them accordingly.
6) If not already equipped with one, install a high-flow axial fan - set to blow across the tubes. Proper tube cooling is important.
7) Double-check your works for shorts, especially in the plate circuit. Do this with the power OFF!.
I've had my amp on the air for many years, using the same set of tubes that came with it. Right now the rig covers 40, 20 and 15M; I may investigate a different coil design to add 80M to it. Not a lot of space in there...!
On 40 I can obtain around 80w...20 is good for 70-75, and 60 or so on 15. The unit has a receiver preamp - which comes in handy at times on 15.
As mentioned before: Tube cooling is important. So is proper tuning of the amp. Investigate adding an IP (or IC) meter so you'll be sure you're not drawing too much plate current when loaded. And remember this: High voltages exist within these devices. BE CAREFUL.
WA9SVD
02-13-2006, 11:37 PM
yx:
You are talking more about a rebuild (perhaps a redesign?) than a simple conversion. That's OK: with many of the "CB" type amps, the power supply may be the most useful part.
Be that as it may, I'd hardly advise anyone to use a CB amp with the thought of a conversion. The time/effort involved is connsiderable for most people, and the cost of replacement tubes alone (normally TV sweep tubes) is outrageous; in the future, perhaps impossible to obtain.
An inveterate homebrewer may wish to undertake (no pun intended) such an endeavour, but for the person who would actually want to use and rely upon such an amp, it's probably a very poor investment, indeed.
w0aew
02-13-2006, 11:53 PM
Amplifiers don't QRM the bands, lids do. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Feb. 13 2006,16:37)]You are talking more about a rebuild (perhaps a redesign?) than a simple conversion. That's OK: with many of the "CB" type amps, the power supply may be the most useful part.
Be that as it may, I'd hardly advise anyone to use a CB amp with the thought of a conversion. The time/effort involved is connsiderable for most people, and the cost of replacement tubes alone (normally TV sweep tubes) is outrageous; in the future, perhaps impossible to obtain.
If you can get an amp cheap or free, the cost is minimal. I've got probably $50.00 total into mine. Some types of sweep tubes are becoming hard to obtain...but one can still find a few here and there. I understand that at least one outfit is making some new ones from time to time.
Would a conversion such as this take an amplifier off 11M, I'd think that to be worth the effort. Even if one has to completely redesign the circuit to make use of 6146 tubes, it's still within the grasp of most experimenters. After all, we're supposed to be technically inclined individuals, adept at working with electronics...right?
WA9SVD
02-14-2006, 07:27 AM
Well, yes, that was my point. Perhaps it's a matter of semantics, but your suggested "conversion" is really a re-design and re-build. Certainly, any homebrewer or experimenter can get the thing to work on several Amateur bands, but it's a question as to whether it's worth the effort. The power supply is often the most valuable part of the entire piece of equipment. Then again, getting a piece of junk amp off the CB frequencies can't hurt, either.
N5LRZ
02-16-2006, 07:05 AM
@ n8yx
Pssst come sit over here my borther in ham. Waitress you sultry looking thing, two strong coffees please. Lets talk.
A reminder to ya. You do NOT need a radio to run a CW computer program. You need a computer. You do not need a a radio to study the theory. You need the study guide on either CD or book form
If you do not have to have the radio to either study the code or the license manual then why the hell would they even remotely have a need for an Amateur Radio UNTIL they get their license.
They would not have any legitimate need at all.
Quote[/b] (N5LRZ @ Feb. 16 2006,00:05)]You do NOT need a radio to run a CW computer program. You need a computer. You do not need a a radio to study the theory. You need the study guide on either CD or book form
You assume that A) everyone has a computer, B) everyone wants a computer. As hard as it may be to believe, there are people who do not. Roughly 50% of the adults in my family have never touched one of the things; nor do they care to.
When I studied for the various classes I've held, all code practice was done with either a general-coverage receiver or a ham rig.
I'll be willing to bet that the majority of people who were licensed before the PC began arriving on the scene studied code in a similar fashion...
Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Feb. 12 2006,18:37)]Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Feb. 12 2006,02:53)]Can someone explain to me how a CB user on 27.555 running 10 KW will effect me?
10 kW? How 'bout when it dims the lights in the entire neighborhood??? <<<GRIN>>>
If they overmodulate while running illegal power (as they so often do), you'll easily hear them on 10 Meters. If they crank up the power they can black out the block (at least). We had a CB'er who decided to turn on his 5KW linear because some kid with his Christmas gift, a 100mw Walkie Talkie put a carrier on him. He knocked the power out to his block on the coldest night of the year. Now if you were a Ham on his block, I imagine that would pretty much take you off the air.
ki0lv
02-16-2006, 11:44 AM
It just doesnt seem right, it's like the old saying just having something bad IS BAD. For example, it doesn't seem right that a person who is not licensed have a bunch of amps, antennas, and radios for bands he can't talk on. Isn't it obvious?
It just makes it worse when hams sell this junk to others - in fact - adding more tools in the hands of people who just trash the bands. One thing is for sure, this can't help the "cause" of ham radio.
Quote[/b] (ki0lv @ Feb. 16 2006,04:44)]It just doesnt seem right, it's like the old saying just having something bad IS BAD. For example, it doesn't seem right that a person who is not licensed have a bunch of amps, antennas, and radios for bands he can't talk on. Isn't it obvious?
So I was "bad" when I bought my first commercial transceiver (before I was licensed) and used it to copy code in an effort to study for said license?
I'm "bad" because I have a closet full of old surplus Mototola Sabres, Maxtracs and so forth...that happened to be programmed for frequencies outside the ham bands (and were that way when I got 'em)?
I'm "bad" because I have several HF marine SSB rigs which cover 1.6-30 MHz continuous?
Sorry...but I call BS on this.
Possessing equipment isn't what gets one in trouble. Using it when one does not have a valid license for services where it operates WILL get one in trouble, however. The exception being low-drive, "CB" amplifiers that are owned by an unlicensed individual. But we digress, as the original topic was about an amateur-radio amp...
ki0lv
02-16-2006, 05:53 PM
Ditto.
WA9SVD
02-16-2006, 07:20 PM
Quote[/b] (N5LRZ @ Feb. 16 2006,00:05)]@ n8yx
Pssst come sit over here my borther in ham. Waitress you sultry looking thing, two strong coffees please. Lets talk.
A reminder to ya. You do NOT need a radio to run a CW computer program. You need a computer. You do not need a a radio to study the theory. You need the study guide on either CD or book form
If you do not have to have the radio to either study the code or the license manual then why the hell would they even remotely have a need for an Amateur Radio UNTIL they get their license.
They would not have any legitimate need at all.
Many of us (back in the good ol' daze, when men wuz men, and transceivers weren't invented) got our first taste of Amateur Radio from friends/relatives who were hams, and were SWL'ers who wanted to know MORE about Amateur radio and how to actually TALK over the radio. And though we may have listened through receivers, many of us also inherited transmitters as well. And many of us lusted, NAY coveted the time when we would (and did) FINALLY receive that piece of paper from the FCC with a callsign, and the attendant Amateur privileges.
But whether using individual transmitters/receivers, or an "all-in-the-box" trnasceivers, we knew (and at least most cared) that it was forbidden to transmit, save for a test into a dummy load, AKA a 75 0r 100 W. light bulb.
but at least at that time, it was recognized that use of a transmitter without a license was WRONG. (And besides, it could carry a stiff fine!)
Again, posession is NOT illegal or even inappropriate in many, if not most cases. It is only the USE on inappropriate frequencies or inappropriate power levels or without proper license that is illegal.
And many SWL's (Short Wave Listerners ) buy Amateur grade transceivers, because they feel the receiver or reveiver/DSP characteristics far exceed those in receive only radio, yet they have no intention, or even desire, to transmit, at least not until they obtain an appropriate license.
(it's truly sad, IMHO, that as a society today we now assume that because some individuals have the capability of doing something wrong, that all people in such a circumstance will automatically choose that course of action. )
In the same vein, why should it be bad for an "Amateur to be" to purchase their long cherished first rig so they can LISTEN to Amateur communications before receiving their license? MANY newcomers do NOT have the financial wherewithal to first buy a "receive only" radio, (often with inferior performance) and then purchase a "real" Amateur radio once licensed. Or if forced to do so, they would be left with a considerably smaller budget for a transceiver when they DO get their license; and might be forced between the decision of buying a "dream" radio, (transceiver) or having to but a receive only radio, and then only have the budget for a "mediocre" transceiver afterwards.
It all boils down th the fact that it is NOT illegal to own a radio capable of transmitting on Amateur frequencies. (Or any other frequencies, for that matter.) It is ONLY illegal when it is used to transmit on non-Amateur frequencies, or without an Amateur license even on the Amateur bands. Really, it's about the PTT switch. If you don't press, there's no violation, so there should be no problem.
Then again, this issue has been discussed to death, if not "ad nauseum," in a number of posts to this forum in the past.
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BTW, LRZ:
What's a borther? If it's what I think it is, you can have mine, real cheap. Remember, some are worthless, and some are priceless. I'll start the auction at $1.00, as long as nobody knows him... (Other wise, minimum bid is -$1.00 and I'll pay shipping, too!)
KF0RT
02-16-2006, 07:28 PM
Quote[/b] (N5LRZ @ Feb. 16 2006,00:05)]If you do not have to have the radio to either study the code or the license manual then why the hell would they even remotely have a need for an Amateur Radio UNTIL they get their license.
They would not have any legitimate need at all.
Two words: Instant Gratification.
This country thrives on it. "Patience" is no longer a part of the vernacular. What, you want me to wait for my callsign and then wait again to get a radio?
You're out of your everlovin' MIND!!!
73, Rob
wa9cwx
02-17-2006, 05:55 AM
Ok, it's late and my mind is slipping away a bit...
Here goes..
How many unlicensed people have bought a TELEGRAPH key, with the intent of illegal CW operation...?
AND...MORE IMPORTANT.....
Would anyone DO anything about it.....
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
WA9SVD
02-18-2006, 05:12 AM
Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Feb. 16 2006,22:55)]Ok, it's late and my mind is slipping away a bit...
Here goes..
How many unlicensed people have bought a TELEGRAPH key, with the intent of illegal CW operation...?
AND...MORE IMPORTANT.....
Would anyone DO anything about it.....
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Doesn't that require an FBI background check and 72 hour waiting period? (Of course, there are ways around that; hamfests, balck market...)
Well, let's see. A few years back, I purchased a Gates BC-500T broadcast transmitter with the idea of putting it on 160. Despite my best intentions (and my wife's questioning looks), it's still sitting in my garage, still set up for operation on 970 KC. Now as we all know, my ham license gives me no privileges on 970 or anywhere else in the AM broadcast band. Have I broken the law by purchasing the transmitter or having it in my possession? Did the fellow who sold me the transmitter break the law by selling it to me? Did the broadcast station that sold it to him break the law? If so, why? If not, why not?
Regardless of how you answer, you'll probably find that the existence or non-existence of a ham license simply isn't a factor. As others have correctly pointed out, it all comes down to what you actually do with the equipment. Merely buying, selling or owning it isn't illegal -- at least not yet. Why the rush to make it so?