Mods

What is it with this rash of posts from 'newbs' and 'NCTs' asking about "mods" and "opening up the TX"?.

Gotta get that cute little VX-2R, open it up and snip a few wires and turn it into a GMRS!

Gotta open up that U-82, reverse a diode or two, and turn it into a Police radio!

Gotta open up that old Radio Shack 2 meter HT so I can transmit on the Burger King drive-up channel!

Gotta get that FT817 QRP rig, open it up, scratch off a few circuit traces, and turn it into a CB!

I don't get it...

[K8ERV]

Good post

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[AC0H]

Those kinds of posts on this board should be summarily dumped.

[WA2ZDY]

I still say that subject should be an automatic moderation, just like software requests are on batlabs. Ask for or offer Motorola software, or post a link to anyplace doing same is a warning - posted on your avatar for all to see, and the post is moderated - content deleted but again, the existence of the post is left for all to see. Do it thrice and you can go elsewhere forever after.

I'm not the master here but if this were my board, modification for illegal uses would rank up there. As I said on another thread, yes, the info is out there and the guys who want it will find it. But I think the reputation that "they didn't get it on qrz.com" would be worth having.

Just my 2/100 of a buck.

[K3UD]

I look at thei as a mixed issue. There are some rather worthwhile mods out there that enhance the use of particular radios. I did the 60 meter mod to my FT-100 and will do it to my 746PRO. Yes it opens up the radios to be able transmit everywhere, but it is the responsibility of the user not to do this. Unfortunately, the companies who manufacture the radios did not see fit early on to include the 60 meter band on many radios (I think that Yaesu was the first) and if you want to get on that band you need to do the mods yourself. Same thing with MARS coverage (if you need it).

Modding radios used to be a very large ham radio tradition. I modded my DX-40 to cover the 6 meter band
and did audio mods on the DX-100 and the Johnson Ranger. I also converted a UHF Class-B CB radio to 432 MHZ and several pieces of surplus to operate in the ham bands.

Mods in themselves are not a bad thing.

73
George
K3UD

[WZ4I]

I like the ole MARS mod.

I heard one of the locals around here saying he had performed the MARS mode on his rig. I kindly asked what his MARS call was. Surprise!!! He didn't have one.... Wonder what band he was planning to operate on? Hummmm. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Feb. 05 2006,07:43)]Mods in themselves are not a bad thing.
Correct.

To wit, a very large percentage of "stock" amateur rigs can be made to transmit on frequencies outside the amateur bands just by tuning their VFOs past the band edges.

IOW, it's up to the operator of such to keep an eye on where he or she is operating...

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Feb. 05 2006,07:16)]Those kinds of posts on this board should be summarily dumped.
I disagree. Anyone who opens up the transmitt on an amateur radio should be summarily beaten with a big hunk of RG-8. There is simply no need or reason to do that other than to be a Bozo and cause trouble.

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (WZ4I @ Feb. 05 2006,08:12)]Wonder what band he was planning to operate on?
That would probably be the so-called "Echo Charlie" band (below 40M), or one of the other pirate hangouts below 80 or 20M.

There are so many cheap "export" CB radios floating around these days that the average CBer doesn't need to obtain and convert a ham rig for freeband use.

[kf4lne]

If you have to come here to ask for a mod to make your new dual bander into a police radio then you are...

1. Too incompetent to use the internet to come back to get the answer, Otherwise you would have used Google

2. Not familiar with the FCC equipment certification requirements

3. Probably a troll

4. More likeley a whacker

5. Have no business having a radio that transmits FM from 136-174mc and again from 400-512mc

[W5HTW]

Commercially made ham radio has just about always been capable of transmitting where it wasn't allowed to. As noted, simply twirl the VFO of a DX-100 and you are outside amateur bands. But for dozens of years, I never heard of a ham doing that. Now it's getting common.

Worse yet, the VHF/UHF rigs are capable of operating on public safety bands after mods. We absolutely don't belong there. We have too many wannabe cops in our ranks, and they think "I gotta be able to transmit on the police frequency." Like hell.

Once upon a time we hams prided ourselves on being technical and capable operators who believed in the rules. Now far too many of us think that a ham license has made us God, a policeman, fireman, paramedic, Homeland Security Investigator, special envoy to the President, and God's ambassador to the needy. The most ego-boosting thing one can have these days is a ham callsign.

For decades hams built homemade radio equipment that could operate anywhere in the radio spectrum. But they didn't do it.

Of course this all began with CB. CB was (and remains) the training ground for illegal, improper, technically terrible, rule-breaking and "up yours" approach to radio. It spawned Freeband, and it brought to ham radio, with the migration of people "trained" in CB, the attitude of "so what? It's my radio and I'll do what I @$#&* please."

And the trend continues.

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,08:17)]Anyone who opens up the transmitt on an amateur radio should be summarily beaten with a big hunk of RG-8. There is simply no need or reason to do that other than to be a Bozo and cause trouble.
Pardon moi, but which type of "amateur radio" are we discussing?

Ever use a transverter with an HF rig?

For example, 6 and 2M are 4 MHz in size. To get full coverage of those bands with the spread centered on 28MHz, one would need TX/RX coverage of 26-30 MHz.

[kf4lne]

YX: Thats an acceptable mod of a radio. I once used a modified HR2510 to operate 6m through a transverter. I can understand modifying a 2m radio to use with a transverter for 70cm or one of the other bands that are 20+MHz wide, but there are way too many wannabe public safety officials who think they will save the world by having a VHF/UHF rig that has 100 of its 200 channels programmed up with every agency for a hundred miles in all directions.

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (kf4lne @ Feb. 05 2006,08:48)]"...but there are way too many wannabe public safety officials who think they will save the world by having a VHF/UHF rig that has 100 of its 200 channels programmed up with every agency for a hundred miles in all directions..."
Agree 100%. My experiences with this crowd show that if you take away their ham rigs, these fellows will still manage to come up with reprogammed land-mobile equipment in an attempt to play at being a cop/fireman/etc.

Let me digress a bit: Several of our local gun clubs are filled with cop wannabes. They think that because they have concealed-carry permits or have attained instructor ratings, that makes them "eligible" for LEO status. A few of these folks even volunteer with their local PDs; explaining such things to them as jurisdictional boundaries and so forth falls on deaf ears - they're too busy living out their fantasies.

Thankfully, psychological screening plays a large role in the LEO hiring process and they've progressed no further up the "chain"... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 05 2006,08:30)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,08:17)]Anyone who opens up the transmitt on an amateur radio should be summarily beaten with a big hunk of RG-8. #There is simply no need or reason to do that other than to be a Bozo and cause trouble.
Pardon moi, but which type of "amateur radio" are we discussing?

Ever use a transverter with an HF rig?

For example, 6 and 2M are 4 MHz in size. To get full coverage of those bands with the spread centered on 28MHz, one would need TX/RX coverage of 26-30 MHz.
Pardon Moi right back.... I have never purchased a transverter, I have designed and built several of them however.

To get the necessary TX range to cover the 4 MHZ spread on 6 and 2 meters you simply need two crystals in the master oscillator section of the transverter.

Something like 22 and 24 MHZ for 6. I use to use lower frequency crystals and double or triple them. You get better stability that way. You also don't have to screw around with your expensive HF equipment that way.

Some of my homebrew equipment was, and is capable of transmitting outside the band but I try to design it to be as close within the legal band edges as possible. I have no need or reason to TX outside of any frequency I'm licensed for and have a really dim view of anyone stupid enough to think they do, REALLY DIM.

If you're a cop, you have a police radio. If you're a fireman, you have a fire department radio, etc. etc... If you're an amateur then stay where you belong and let the professional cops, fire and EMS do their jobs. They don't need or want you on their frequencies.

As Mac says-------dit dit......

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,09:24)]To get the necessary TX range to cover the 4 MHZ spread on 6 and 2 meters you simply need two crystals in the master oscillator section of the transverter.
Or you need ONE, if your transverter is designed thusly.

For example...put the transverter's IF at 14 MHz and you still need 14-16 MHz TX/RX for full coverage, even with a 2-crystal design. No off-the-shelf rig I'm aware of will TX there; ergo, the need to mod it should you use this scheme.

One previous poster's comments apply here: The ubiquitous HR2510/HR2600 series of radios. They make great IF stages for a single-crystal TX scheme, but they must be modified for use as such.

Quote[/b] ]You also don't have to screw around with your expensive HF equipment that way.

Why should this be a concern for someone who is, for example, capable of designing and building VHF equipment? This certainly isn't a concern for me...wasn't communications electronics theory and practice one of the cornerstones upon which amateur radio was founded?

Quote[/b] ] I have no need or reason to TX outside of any frequency I'm licensed for and have a really dim view of anyone stupid enough to think they do, REALLY DIM.

If you're an amateur then stay where you belong and let the professional cops, fire and EMS do their jobs. They don't need or want you on their frequencies.

Agreed. See one of my previous posts regarding this. It doesn't matter if the "wannabe" has a radio or not. He or she will always try to find a way to horn in on the "action".

[K9STH]

I agree with YX concerning modifying rigs like the Uniden HR-2510. In fact, I have a modified HR-2510 that I sometimes use with my Hallicrafters HA-2 transverter.

A "stock" HR-2510 only goes to 29.6999 MHz and will NOT give the top 300 KHz of any 2 MHz band segment.

When I use it with my HA-2 I use the segment that is designed for 146 MHz to 148 MHz with the i.f. operating on 26 MHz to 29.9666 MHz which gives me coverage from 144 MHz to 147.6999 MHz which, generally, is plenty! The top 300 KHz of 2 meters is used only for repeater inputs in this part of the country.

Now when I use the HR-2510 mobile, I NEVER transmit below 28 MHz even though the unit is definitely capable of doing so. Just like on my Heath DX-100 or my Globe Champion 350A, both of which have the 11 meter band on them and the VFO is definitely calibrated for those frequencies. The same with my Globe Chief 90A / WRL 755 VFO and my Heath DX-35 / Heath VF-1 VFO. They both have calibration for the 11 meter band. Of course my Hallicrafters HT-20 came from the factory with capabilities of operation on any frequency between 1.5 MHz and 30 MHz. However, I don't operate anywhere except for the amateur radio bands.

Now for those people who want to "open up" the VHF and UHF FM units that is a completely different matter. It is completely legal to listen to any of the frequencies except for the cellular telephone frequencies. But, it also is a definite "no no" to transmit on any frequency that requires certified (new "buzz word" for type accepted) radios.

Anyone who is even considering using amateur radio equipment on frequencies other than amateur radio (in the United States and U.S. posessions) needs to download 47 CFR Part 15, Part 90, and Part 95 from the FCC website ( http://www.fcc.gov ) and read those regulations. While they are at the FCC website they also need to download 47 CFR Part 97 (the rules governing the Amateur Radio Service) because federal regulations require that a copy of these regulations be retained by the amateur radio operator either in "hard copy" or as a text file which is readily available on their computer.

Glen, K9STH

[wa9cwx]

I am reading this thread and am just a bit confused, again.

If I DO open up my radios, will the local Police, Fire, etc, QSL direct, or do they use eQSL?

Also, these CB type bands below 20/40/80 ..... How do I apply for a license there. Can I use my self assigned call like I use on the ham bands...or do I need to build the gear myself, or WHAT?

There just doesn't seem to be enough information here to help get me started actually USING my moded radios.

Will the FCC answer direct questions to help me, like getting on this "Freeband" thing?
How about McDonalds/ Burger King. do THEY QSL?

Just looking for a some straight answers.

[K9STH]

CWX:

No QSL cards, but if you cross your fingers right you might get some free French fries at McDonald's or a free Whopper at Burger King.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Glen, K9STH

[k9zmd]

So, should QRZ.COM continue to show requests for mods? #I vote YES. #This is at least one place where intolerance for illegal activity will be clearly (and instantly) expressed. #If we think that adherence to the rules should be the norm, then that must be expressed time and time again so that newcomers can absorb the concept. #

Here's another reason for allowing those mod requests. #They give LIDS who would tolerate illegal activity an opportunity to loudly self-identify. #I've sure noted the whining about constipated "cops" who can't just answer a simple question without all kinds of unasked for advice about legality. #I love how they tell on themselves. # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Regarding legit reasons for requesting modification info, those folks would be able explain their intentions very well (i.e. intended MARS, transverter, CAP, or 60 meter operation); more likely, they would know where to get the info without posting a request here. # 73

Gary, K9ZMD
Palmdale, CA

[WA2ZDY]

My point too. Those with legit reasons for mods probably already know where to find the info. And likely already know how to do it.

The guys who want to "have the fire freq just in case" are usually pretty obvious - to me anyway.

And yes, old rigs did and do transmit outside the ham bands. That's fine, and it's very different from someone coming to ask specifically how to make a new rig do it. Old rigs did it as a matter of course. That's a lot different from intentionally modifying a rig to do it.

Ah well, like I said, it's not my board so I don't make that decision whether or not it should be allowed. I just think too many of these nitwits have given ham radio a bad name.

[KB9YCO]

Quote[/b] ]What is it with this rash of posts from 'newbs' and 'NCTs' asking about "mods" and "opening up the TX"?
Hmm, I perused the 'Radio Mods, Tips & Secrets' section and noticed that much of the information is hardly from 'newbies' or 'techs, seems to be from a rather wide range of people on QRZ, as well as on a few other amateur sites I checked out. I don't think your generalization is apt or fair, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
That being said there is nothing wrong with modifying a radio to expand it's coverage as long as you only use it to listen, or I suppose in some very rare cases where an emergency required it (though I wouldn't recommend it unless it's life or death.)
I've modified pretty much every radio I've had that was capable of it and I've never had a desire to run 50 watts in MURS, or chat in the police bands, etc. It comes down to responsible users, the radio is just a tool and utilizing as much of the usage of that tool as is possible within the bounds of the law should be perfectly acceptable, as well as the radio experimentation factor.
This notion that most people that modify a radio are 'troublemakers' is a bunch of garbage since 99% of the people I know, of varying license classes, have modified their radios for the reasons I've mentioned and realize that they are responsible for their actions or the actions of those that may come into contact with their radios by knowing the person or buying a radio from them.
Since when did modifying a radio become a bad thing? Again, stressing responsibility is the key, not restriction of information.

[WA9SVD]

Time and again, it's been said that it's the responsibility of the USER.
But unfortunately, I must disagree with the original post: It is NOT just "newbies" that ask such questions.
Some Amateurs, regardless of experience, class of license, etc. seem to think that because their radios CAN be modified, it is therefore OK to use them as such, because THEIR situation (really, their desire or their convenience) is the "exception" to the FCC rules.
And of course, there ARE those that intentionally modify their radio so they can deliberately transmit on non-Amateur frequencies merely because they WANT to, and think they won't get caught.

But to say categorically that any mod, or anyone who makes such a mod is wrong, is not correct. There are reasons; MARS; and if you wish to use a HF radio with a transverter, it is often advantageous to have greater trnasmit bandwidth than offered by the HF Amateur bands. (E.g., 6 M and 2M are 4 MHz wide; there is no HF Amateur band that wide.) But when all is said and done, it IS the responsibility of the individual to ensure that a modified radio does not radiate a signal on a non-Amateur frequency.
(Yes, in theory, at least, a dummy load would allow operation of a modified radio on ANY frequency, at least until the dummy load heats up or the radio explodes from operation on a frequency for which it wasn't intended. Regardless of any "mod," the radios are designed with filters and matching for the Amateur bands, and operation elsewhere is NOT guaranteed! So that 200 Watt transceiver you just bought may put out 200 watts on the Amateur bands, but elsewhere, it may put out much less, due to a mismatch. While a modified radio MAY be able to transmit on any frequency, it was NOT designed to do the same.)

[G8ADD]

Quote[/b] (ai4cb @ Feb. 05 2006,06:08)]What is it with this rash of posts from 'newbs' and 'NCTs' asking about "mods" and "opening up the TX"?.

Gotta get that cute little VX-2R, open it up and snip a few wires and turn it into a GMRS!

Gotta open up that U-82, reverse a diode or two, and turn it into a Police radio!

Gotta open up that old Radio Shack 2 meter HT so I can transmit on the Burger King drive-up channel!

Gotta get that FT817 QRP rig, open it up, scratch off a few circuit traces, and turn it into a CB!

I don't get it...
WELL EXCUSE ME FOR BREATHING!!!

I have opened up my FT817. I did it with software, there is no need for scratching off surface traces.

The reason for this? Simple - I needed acess to 7.1 - 7.2 MHz which has recently become available over here, and I needed access to the 5 MHz channels. Neither of these could be obtained without opening it up.

Having opened my rig up, I use it responsibly. I resent any implication that I would not use it responsibly.

You guys are so untrusting.

73

Brian G8ADD

[WA2ZDY]

Quote[/b] (G8ADD @ Feb. 06 2006,07:22)]I resent any implication that I would not use it responsibly.

You guys are so untrusting.
While I know you've had some "CB" problems in the UK, you haven't had the almost societal issues we've had here in the US with the illegal radio people.

For over 20 years it's been illegal to buy an amplifier that will work on 10 meters. Hams on 10m have never done a thing wrong, it's been the CBers and what we call the "freebanders" who roam the spectrum from the top of the CB band (27.405) to the 10m band and often well into the 10m band.

And it is sadly not an uncommon occurance to hear of someone making transmissions on the police channels here. There have been incidents of long running searches for folks who've caused major problems for the authorities in some cases.

We like to believe these were not hams, but a perusing of the enforcement letters tells us that too often they ARE/WERE hams.

I'm sure we can trust you, but there are too many we can't trust. And if you've followed this line of thought here on qrz.com for any length of time, you know that the mod for 60m is not the common question. (And your need to expand the 40m band is currently unique to the UK.)

The common one here is for expansion of VHF/UHF transmitters to frequencies for which there is no legal nor rational explanation. There are no transverters with IF frequencies of 155 MHz. There are no ham bands at 460 MHz. There is NO reason to modify a ham rig to transmit there, ever.

Like I said, the issues are different where you are as opposed to here. If we had your troubles I don't suppose we'd have a trust issue either, but alas we do.

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Feb. 06 2006,05:11)]The common one here is for expansion of VHF/UHF transmitters to frequencies for which there is no legal nor rational explanation. # There are no transverters with IF frequencies of 155 MHz. #There are no ham bands at 460 MHz. #There is NO reason to modify a ham rig to transmit there, ever.
Let's see...valid reasons for modding an HF TRX:

1) MARS/CAP operation (though many will have trouble meeting current regs for frequency stability);

2) 60M operation (ditto);

3) Coverage of a band (or an expansion thereof) which has been authorized for use by a country's regulatory agency, but which isn't included in currently deployed equipment;

4) Transverter operation


Valid reasons for modding a VHF/UHF TRX:

1)


Too many people are misusing modded VHF/UHF equipment and as a result, all of us are made to suffer the consequences. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[G8ADD]

OK, sorry guys, I went off half-cocked - Monday was never my day!

The 40 m expansion, by the way, affects several other countries over here and more are in the pipeline. Now 40 is starting to sound more like 20 you may have noticed us turning up in what you probably think of as more sensible places! On VHF we find that a few rigs can be expanded to cover our 4m band (70 -70.6), although they are horrendously inefficient used that way, but I take your point. We don't get a lot of trouble with freebanders, although there is a centre of activity about 6.6 MHz - our main problem is fly-by-night taxi firms operating on 2 m, or any other band they can get rigs for! Such operations tend to get hunted down by affronted hams and the details passed to the authorities. Perhaps hunting down these nuisances could become a new ham sport with awards and league tables?

73

Brian G8ADD

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (G8ADD @ Feb. 06 2006,06:19)]"...there is a centre of activity about 6.6 MHz..."
The "Echo Charlie band" is alive and well, I see...!

Brian, who or what on your side of the Pond is using that frequency range?

I've seen it mentioned from time to time in various UTE/SWL newsletters, loggings and so forth. My take is that it's a "freeband" hangout of sorts.

Could you elaborate on what you're hearing - and when? Makes for some good DXing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 06 2006,10:00)]Quote[/b] (G8ADD @ Feb. 06 2006,06:19)]"...there is a centre of activity about 6.6 MHz..."
The "Echo Charlie band" is alive and well, I see...!

Brian, who or what on your side of the Pond is using that frequency range?

I've seen it mentioned from time to time in various UTE/SWL newsletters, loggings and so forth. My take is that it's a "freeband" hangout of sorts.

Could you elaborate on what you're hearing - and when? Makes for some good DXing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
6600 KHz is to 40m what 11m freeband is to CB.

[G8ADD]

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 06 2006,07:00)]Quote[/b] (G8ADD @ Feb. 06 2006,06:19)]"...there is a centre of activity about 6.6 MHz..."
The "Echo Charlie band" is alive and well, I see...!

Brian, who or what on your side of the Pond is using that frequency range?

I've seen it mentioned from time to time in various UTE/SWL newsletters, loggings and so forth. My take is that it's a "freeband" hangout of sorts.

Could you elaborate on what you're hearing - and when? Makes for some good DXing. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I don't listen there very often, there is more to do on the legal bands than I could ever have time for. What I have heard is guys ragchewing like hams but with odd callsigns, in our evenings. Most are clearly UK from accent and idiom but there are continental accents, too.

73

Brian G8ADD

[KB9YCO]

A thought occured to me on this subject. One point that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that in many cases in order to modify a radio for receive elsewhere the transmit is also opened by that modification. Therefore if you want a radio to receive everywhere that it is possible to, like I always do, then you also are opening up the transmit in the process.
Again I say responsible usage is the key. Stressing responsible usage to new licensees (or in some cases old licensees that are irresponsible) is the best we can do. Of course, there will always be the minority of jackasses, like the minority in CB, that stand out and do whatever they want. What can ya do? There's one in every crowd.
Also, it's probably a good idea to remember what you did or removed to modify a radio so that if you want to pass it on you can return it somewhat to it's factory setting, let them do it for themselves if that's what they want.

[WA9SVD]

While it's true that with some radios a mod to extend receive may be an "all or nothing" proposition, most radios are now "extended receive" as manufactured. And some mod instructions combine the Receive and Xmit mods in one procedure, without specifying that you can have one without the other. Many radios today do not need a "receive" mod, and even if such is possible, the new receive capability is often dismal at best, (as it isn't in the original design as marketed or intended) or requires an additional antenna connector. (Try THAT on an H-T!)
The Kenwood TS-790 has several mods available. But there are seperate steps to extend the "performance" beyond the Amateur bands. But it has seperate steps to extend the receive from the Amateur 2M band to approx. 135 MHz to 170 MHz, and I wanted to receive the WX sats ~136 MHz. But that was a RECEIVE mod, readily available from Kenwood. The corresponding transmit mod, however, was not provided by Kenwood, although I am lead to believe it does exist, with clipping an additional diode. (And I never had reason to want such a mod, so I can't verify that it actually works, but I have heard from other users that it does.) So be it. I modded my radio for extended receive (Big deal! a few MHz either side of the Amateur Bands!) But it still transmits only on the Amateur bands. If clipping just one diode had led to both transmit AND receive expansion, I would have been hesitant to perform the mod.
After all is said and done, it is STILL the responsibility of the user to ensure the radio remains on Amateur frequencies.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 05 2006,09:35)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,09:24)]To get the necessary TX range to cover the 4 MHZ spread on 6 and 2 meters you simply need two crystals in the master oscillator section of the transverter.
Or you need ONE, if your transverter is designed thusly.

For example...put the transverter's IF at 14 MHz and you still need 14-16 MHz TX/RX for full coverage, even with a 2-crystal design. No off-the-shelf rig I'm aware of will TX there; ergo, the need to mod it should you use this scheme.

One previous poster's comments apply here: The ubiquitous HR2510/HR2600 series of radios. They make great IF stages for a single-crystal TX scheme, but they must be modified for use as such.

Quote[/b] ]You also don't have to screw around with your expensive HF equipment that way.

Why should this be a concern for someone who is, for example, capable of designing and building VHF equipment? This certainly isn't a concern for me...wasn't communications electronics theory and practice one of the cornerstones upon which amateur radio was founded?

Quote[/b] ] I have no need or reason to TX outside of any frequency I'm licensed for and have a really dim view of anyone stupid enough to think they do, REALLY DIM.

If you're an amateur then stay where you belong and let the professional cops, fire and EMS do their jobs. #They don't need or want you on their frequencies.

Agreed. See one of my previous posts regarding this. It doesn't matter if the "wannabe" has a radio or not. He or she will always try to find a way to horn in on the "action".
If you use a numerically controlled oscillator and mixing scheme in the transverter you can use a fixed IF. Given the low cost of analog IC's today that's not very hard to do at all. Once again I have to say that there is simply no need to modify any commercially built HF or VHF/UHF radio for out of band operation. Almost every HF radio produced in the last 20 years has full receive coverage, even the cheap ones.

Modifying a radio to transmit outside of amateur allocations is utterly foolish. You can't justify it from an engineering standpoint since even simple frequency converters can be made to operate (transmit) on the desired band with an in band signal. I simply don't have any use for anyone who would do such a modification.

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 06 2006,09:05)]Modifying a radio to transmit outside of amateur allocations is utterly foolish. #You can't justify it from an engineering standpoint since even simple frequency converters can be made to operate (transmit) on the desired band with an in band signal. # I simply don't have any use for anyone who would do such a modification.
Then you don't have much use for K9STH and a few others who have (according to them) modded their HRxxxxs and the like for use with their particular (single-crystal) transeverters...correct?

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 05 2006,09:52)]I agree with YX concerning modifying rigs like the Uniden HR-2510. #In fact, I have a modified HR-2510 that I sometimes use with my Hallicrafters HA-2 transverter.

A "stock" HR-2510 only goes to 29.6999 MHz and will NOT give the top 300 KHz of any 2 MHz band segment.
To wit...

[KB9YCO]

Quote[/b] ]Once again I have to say that there is simply no need to modify any commercially built HF or VHF/UHF radio for out of band operation. #Almost every HF radio produced in the last 20 years has full receive coverage, even the cheap ones.

Well I don't know what models you guys are buying, but with the radios that I've felt a need to modify it made a huge difference beyond what was already standard on the radio for receive. Also, there were no receive only mods that I found on any of the radios I had that were Kenwood, Vertex, and ADI, and an Icom, so again the same point stands, sometimes that's just the way it is when you modify a radio. Use it responsibly and there's no problem. Don't let a few idiots that think the law doesn't apply to them affect what you think about the majority of people that may modify a radio.

[n8yx]

Well...let's see.

I can buy one of these for general-coverage RX:

http://www.radioesoterica.com/images/harrisrf590at.jpg

Get the companion exciter, which operates continuously from 1.5-30 MHz (all modes) and can be slaved to the RX:

http://www.radioesoterica.com/images/harrisrf1310at.jpg

Lastly, the 1KW CCS PA:

http://www.radioesoterica.com/images/harrisrf-110at.jpg

I don't have to modify any of the units to get full HF coverage either. They work that way out of the box.

Okay...now that I've got all that hooked up in the shack, it's still up to me - the operator - to obey the frequency, mode and power restrictions associated with the various licenses I hold...

[K9STH]

DPO:

None of the currently manufactured amateur radio transceivers operate within the amateur radio bands except for the actual output. All of the intermediate frequencies are on frequencies that fall outside of any amateur radio band. Therefore, by your reasoning you should not be operating any equipment because part of the system is using frequencies that fall outside of your license privileges.

Now the older equipment that used a VFO that fell within an amateur band and then was multiplied through the various amateur radio bands such as those that used 160 meter, 80 meter, or 40 meter frequencies meet your requirements. However, for SSB you generally are going to have to use a phasing type of exciter like the Heath SB-10 to keep the frequencies within the amateur bands.

Heterodyning is out unless all of the frequencies including the crystal oscillators are within the amateur bands.

Of course this is impractical to accomplish and to get any real performance from the equipment. As such, frequencies that are outside of the amateur radio bands are used and this carries over into the modification of equipment to use with transverters, etc.

Such modifications and subsequent use of the transmitting capabilities are COMPLETELY LEGAL. The operation ceases to be legal when the transverter is eliminated and the transmitter connected directly to an antenna. You are not even comparing apples to oranges but more like walnuts to grapefruit.

All sorts of things are possible. However, why complicate things by going through all sorts of gyrations to keep the i.f. within an amateur band when it it much simpler and definitely legal to use frequencies outside of the amateur band. You just have to make sure that any frequency used that is not within an amateur band is not radiated so as to cause problems.

Glen, K9STH

[WA9SVD]

Good point(s) Glen:

Even your venerable FM broadcast receiver uses at least an IF of 10.7 MHz, which isn't licensed to anyone, But that obviously isn't in an Amateur band. Nor is the 455 kHz IF for some of the same, and many AM radios.

It's sad, but with attitudes expressed by some, (calls withheld to protect the guilty) their disdain for experimentation by responsible operators will probably lead to a lonely existence on the Amateur bands.

[w8cbc]

Precisely what I plan for if/when I build or get a transverter. The ideal 6-metre transverter for me would have an offset of 30 MC. The millivolts of 20-24 MC I'll run into the thing aren't going to bother anyone so long as I make sure they're not amplified along with the product at 50-54 MC. A properly designed DBM followed by high-pass filtering should take care of that. I'd band-pass at the mixer for better spectral purity except I want the full 30-61 MC RX coverage. Probably will anyway in the TX-only bits.

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 06 2006,05:47)]Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Feb. 06 2006,05:11)]The common one here is for expansion of VHF/UHF transmitters to frequencies for which there is no legal nor rational explanation. # There are no transverters with IF frequencies of 155 MHz. #There are no ham bands at 460 MHz. #There is NO reason to modify a ham rig to transmit there, ever.
Let's see...valid reasons for modding an HF TRX:

1) MARS/CAP operation (though many will have trouble meeting current regs for frequency stability);

2) 60M operation (ditto);

3) Coverage of a band (or an expansion thereof) which has been authorized for use by a country's regulatory agency, but which isn't included in currently deployed equipment;

4) Transverter operation


Valid reasons for modding a VHF/UHF TRX:

1)


Too many people are misusing modded VHF/UHF equipment and as a result, all of us are made to suffer the consequences. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Both of you do know that both MARS and CAP use frequncies adjacent to the 2M band in the 148-151 MHZ range, don't you?

73,
Mike WA3KYY
ex-NNN0SDT (NAVMARCOPRSMARS)

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Feb. 06 2006,10:12)]Both of you do know that both MARS and CAP use frequncies adjacent to the 2M band in the 148-151 MHZ range, don't you?

73,
Mike WA3KYY
ex-NNN0SDT (NAVMARCOPRSMARS)
Oops...forgot that one...!

I think the general direction of this thread was towards the prevention of unauthorized usage of public-service frequencies. I can agree with this sentiment, but saying that ALL such mods should be strictly verboten is somewhat extreme...

[AG3Y]

I think you guys have gotten wayyyy away from AI4CBs original intention in posting this thread. The "newbies" etc. that ask the questions about "opening up the TX" usually don't have a clue of the type of things you are talking about.

I believe ( and it is just my opinion ) that they primarily have the thought , "well, now I have my license, let me see what and where all I can hear ( and perhaps tx ) with this little radio !" and so they ask the questions.

Asking questions is not a bad thing, as long as the "newbies" don't get offended and defensive in their response to the answers that they get. And we should NOT neglect to give them the "it would be illegal. . .IF. . " type of answer whenever we deem it necessary. Us OFs should have enough smarts and experience to determine when that type of answer is adviseable!

My thoughts! 73, Jim

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 06 2006,13:07)]I think you guys have gotten wayyyy away from AI4CBs original intention in posting this thread.
Well, frankly my intent was merely to stir the pot a bit (notice thread subtitle - when I'm trolling, I ussually come right out and say so up front). I got tired of reading about bandwidth proposals and K1MAN, ARRL, BPL, codenocode, etc...

What triggered this particular topic was that, yes, it did seem to me that there have been a series of people generally with relatively recently issued licenses, asking such things as how to "open up" a radio specifically to enable transmit on police/ fire/ gmrs/ frs/ murs/ business/ cb frequencies. The sort of thing you'd expect to see on a CB forum.

Maybe not quite a "rash" of such posts, but they appear with some regularity.

I realize of course there are legitimate modifications. I wasn't trying to 'diss those.

But I can't help thinking that, if there has in fact been an increase in the number of licensed people who come to a Ham radio forum to find out how to modify a radio to do something illegal, is a symptom of something we should be concerned about for the future health of the service.

Citizens Band is the way it is today in part because of illegal "mods" run amok.

Maybe it's just the word "mods" that bugs me. It kind of grates me the wrong way just like the growing number of people on repeaters and even on HF telling me what their "handle" is.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 06 2006,09:46)]DPO:

None of the currently manufactured amateur radio transceivers operate within the amateur radio bands except for the actual output. #All of the intermediate frequencies are on frequencies that fall outside of any amateur radio band. #Therefore, by your reasoning you should not be operating any equipment because part of the system is using frequencies that fall outside of your license privileges.

Now the older equipment that used a VFO that fell within an amateur band and then was multiplied through the various amateur radio bands such as those that used 160 meter, 80 meter, or 40 meter frequencies meet your requirements. #However, for SSB you generally are going to have to use a phasing type of exciter like the Heath SB-10 to keep the frequencies within the amateur bands.

Heterodyning is out unless all of the frequencies including the crystal oscillators are within the amateur bands.

Of course this is impractical to accomplish and to get any real performance from the equipment. #As such, frequencies that are outside of the amateur radio bands are used and this carries over into the modification of equipment to use with transverters, etc.

Such modifications and subsequent use of the transmitting capabilities are COMPLETELY LEGAL. #The operation ceases to be legal when the transverter is eliminated and the transmitter connected directly to an antenna. #You are not even comparing apples to oranges but more like walnuts to grapefruit.

All sorts of things are possible. #However, why complicate things by going through all sorts of gyrations to keep the i.f. within an amateur band when it it much simpler and definitely legal to use frequencies outside of the amateur band. #You just have to make sure that any frequency used that is not within an amateur band is not radiated so as to cause problems.

Glen, K9STH
STH, I know that, have known that for years. #I designed radios at Harris for years. #As for gyrations, it's pretty easy to come up with a workable mixing scheme. So, what's the point.....

[WA9SVD]

Quote DPO:

"STH, I know that, have known that for years. I designed radios at Harris for years. As for gyrations, it's pretty easy to come up with a workable mixing scheme. So, what's the point....."
==========================

With all due respect, the point is that not everyone has the time, ability or your extensive experience to design and build their entire array of equipment, and instead, for whatever reason wish to use more mainstream products already on the market.
Or do you also find fault with the current (and past) Amateur equipment manufacturers who, in their mixing schemes, have chosen some non-Amateur frequencies as intermediates in their receivers, and even their transmitters?
(And I certainly don't mean to speak for Glen, who is quite capable himself.)

[K4KWH]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,08:17)]Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Feb. 05 2006,07:16)]Those kinds of posts on this board should be summarily dumped.
I disagree. #Anyone who opens up the transmitt on an amateur radio should be summarily beaten with a big hunk of RG-8. #There is simply no need or reason to do that other than to be a Bozo and cause trouble.
Uhnk-unh! #There ARE legitimate reasons to modify amateur equipment such as the 60M mod, MARS and CAP.
CAP members, for example, operate on USAF frequencies and under NTIA (FEMA and SHARES). Their operations are fully legal, licensed (authorized) outside the Amateur Service and Part 97 has nothing to do with it! So I urge upon the group that the responsibility for "band" #edges, etc, lies with the operators themselves.

An example of unauthorized use would be modding handhelds for..............say, railroad frequencies. #I once found a fella at a local hamfest proudly (ham, too!) gloating about how he uses his ham rig on the railroad frequencies because he "worked" on steam excursions. Obviously, he was a real #what railroaders call a "foamer". He was quick to note the fact that I was wearing my Southern Railway "Look Ahead, Look South Jacket" and showed me his "railroad radio". #I promptly called the railroad detectives who showed up at the hamfest and questioned him. I don't know if he got a "ticket" from FCC; I quietly left. THAT was clearly a case of an unauthorized modification that could've had bad results.

73

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Feb. 06 2006,13:13)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,08:17)]Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Feb. 05 2006,07:16)]Those kinds of posts on this board should be summarily dumped.
I disagree. Anyone who opens up the transmitt on an amateur radio should be summarily beaten with a big hunk of RG-8. There is simply no need or reason to do that other than to be a Bozo and cause trouble.
Uhnk-unh! There ARE legitimate reasons to modify amateur equipment such as the 60M mod, MARS and CAP.
CAP members, for example, operate on USAF frequencies and under NTIA (FEMA and SHARES). Their operations are fully legal, licensed (authorized) outside the Amateur Service and Part 97 has nothing to do with it! So I urge upon the group that the responsibility for "band" edges, etc, lies with the operators themselves.

An example of unauthorized use would be modding handhelds for..............say, railroad frequencies. I once found a fella at a local hamfest proudly (ham, too!) gloating about how he uses his ham rig on the railroad frequencies because he "worked" on steam excursions. Obviously, he was a real what railroaders call a "foamer". He was quick to note the fact that I was wearing my Southern Railway "Look Ahead, Look South Jacket" and showed me his "railroad radio". I promptly called the railroad detectives who showed up at the hamfest and questioned him. I don't know if he got a "ticket" from FCC; I quietly left. THAT was clearly a case of an unauthorized modification that could've had bad results.

73
I think that's precisely the point some of us are trying to make! It's not the mod itself, but the MISUSE of the mod.

But be aware, CAP has greatly tightened it's standards as to which Amateur equipment is acceptable in CAP service once modified based on stability and frequency accuracy; most older models are no longer acceptable for CAP use. Some newer model transceivers (typically with an optional TCXO, or temp compensated crystal oscillator installed) may still qualify, but the list of acceptable radios has shrunken drastically. If you ARE in CAP, it's best to get the latest information directly from CAP, rather than relying on most Internet postings, such as here.
As best as I can determine, MARS has not yet tightened up their requirement for acceptable equipmen in a similar manner; then again, MARS operations are not as critical or urgent as to require absolute performance as does CAP. (That's not to say MARS isn't important; just that MARS being an amateur associated service [and a very important one at that] the absolute standards for commercial gear interoperability may not be as necessary as it is for CAP, which is usually for emergency, critical communications on a short term basis, not a regular practice as is MARS.)
Be that as it may, BOTH services (MARS and CAP) ARE outside the Amateur bands, and both ARE legitimate use of a modified Amateur Radio (with some qualifications for CAP) but no Amateur Radio as sold (at least in the U.S.) covers those frequencies. So to participate in either of those services, a mod is necessary. But in doing so, (except when participation in MARS or CAP service) it is ultimately the operator's responsibility to ensure that transmission (of a radiated signal) on any frequency other than an Amateur band NEVER occurs.

[K9STH]

DPO:

And I bet that the intermediate frequencies that you designed into the equipment were chosen because of operational considerations and NOT because they happened to lie within, or without, any particular amateur radio band.

Not every amateur radio operator has the ability and/or the experience to design their own equipment. Nor does every amateur radio operator have the ability to construct all of their equipment. Yes, there are those of us who have designed equipment, who have built complex home brew equipment, and so forth. But, the "average" amateur radio operator is not able to do such especially with the complex nature of equipment today.

At least the amateur who takes time to modify (albeit only a very simple modification) to "open up" the transmit capabilities of his/her equipment for the express purpose of being able to use it with something like a VHF or UHF transverter is doing something worthwhile. Now if the same person was doing this "open up" procedure for the purpose of communicating directly with the equipment on frequencies outside of the amateur radio bands then that is a completely different situation. It is the purpose of the modification and the end result of the modification that determines both the legal operation and the moral responsibility of the operation.

Again: Modifying a unit is legal. It is how the modified equipment is used that is the determining factor as to whether or not the actual use is legal.

Glen, K9STH

[W6GQ]

I think people want to get "in their radio" to say they did it. Look at the "Old Timers" who had heathkits and could say "they did it", I think these are the folks that do not understand why the need to "mod". Maybe sell radios that need to be finished by installing certain components for the radio to work. When you study for your test you see all the info in electronics and it makes you want to tinker.

IF it were so bad to modify a VHF/UHF radio the manufacturer can surely prevent it from being done. Like the so called "export" 10 meter radios, they can be easily modified for 11 meter use. Ranger (RCI) made 2 versions of the 2950DX, one that could be modified for out of band use, selling to the trucks stops, and one that could not be modified, sold at AES. Radioshack did the same with their 10 meter radios.

Everyone blames tha manufacturer for making the radio modifiable in the export/CB world but blames the "nct" or "newbies" in the ham world. Blame Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood and the sorts, they are making them that easy to modify!

My opinion only, your mileage may vary.

[WA9SVD]

After all this, just curious:

Just HOW does one troll for blatants? Does one use an (in)sane net? Seems to me just about any kind of bait is usable... {{ GRIN }}

[WA2ZDY]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Feb. 06 2006,13:12)]Both of you do know that both MARS and CAP use frequncies adjacent to the 2M band in the 148-151 MHZ range, don't you?

73,
Mike WA3KYY
ex-NNN0SDT (NAVMARCOPRSMARS)
Yes, I am fully aware of that fact. But i doubt strongly that many MARS members are told "if you want to mod your radio to work here, go to qrz.com and ask." I'm quite certain that legit MARS ops get their info elsewhere; perhaps they get it from MARS.

Yes, the 60m mod is legit. The Europeans expanding their rigs to operate on frequencies becoming available are legit.

And how many of those guys are the ones we see here "Hi I just got my license for HAM and I am a firefighter/EMT/work for the railroad/psychopath/wannabe/nut and want to open up my radio (use a screwdriver to open it dummy) to make it transmit from 118 to 512 MHz."

I stand by my original opinion. Anyone with a legit need has better sources for their info.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 06 2006,13:49)]DPO:

And I bet that the intermediate frequencies that you designed into the equipment were chosen because of operational considerations and NOT because they happened to lie within, or without, any particular amateur radio band.

Not every amateur radio operator has the ability and/or the experience to design their own equipment. #Nor does every amateur radio operator have the ability to construct all of their equipment. #Yes, there are those of us who have designed equipment, who have built complex home brew equipment, and so forth. #But, the "average" amateur radio operator is not able to do such especially with the complex nature of equipment today.

At least the amateur who takes time to modify (albeit only a very simple modification) to "open up" the transmit capabilities of his/her equipment for the express purpose of being able to use it with something like a VHF or UHF transverter is doing something worthwhile. #Now if the same person was doing this "open up" procedure for the purpose of communicating directly with the equipment on frequencies outside of the amateur radio bands then that is a completely different situation. #It is the purpose of the modification and the end result of the modification that determines both the legal operation and the moral responsibility of the operation. #

Again: #Modifying a unit is legal. #It is how the modified equipment is used that is the determining factor as to whether or not the actual use is legal.

Glen, K9STH
OK Glen, name one commercially made amateur transverter that was not designed to accept input power on a bonafide amateur frequency.

Every VHF transverter #I have ever seen for 50 or 144 MHZ is designed to accept power in the 14 or 28 MHZ bands. #I can't speak for all of them but all of the ones produced by Hallicrafters, Drake, National, and several others can be used in segments of 50 or 144 MHZ bands by changing crystals in the LO of the transverter. #So if your transmitter only goes to 29.6 you can switch crystals to move up a segment. #Seems to me that changing crystals is a lot easier and less technically difficult than modifying a commercial transmitter to operate out of band. #That mod can produce spurious output in many cases since the transmit section of some radios have switched LPFs. #Why not just install two or three crystals and a switch in the transverter. #If you can mod a transmitter, you can certainly add a crystal or two.



As for IFs, you are correct. IF frequencies are always selected to produce the least interaction with mixing products and eliminate images. #All of the current amateur manufacturers do this as well. #The 36 KHZ DSP IF stage used by ICOM in the PRO series is a function of the gain bandwidth capability of the DSP circuit, the 50 KHZ last IF in the Drake B line was component driven to get the necessary Q required for the passband tuning.

All modern tranceivers have used a first mixer LO well above the HF band for years to reduce unwanted products in the mixer. #It works very well and I can't imagine how you could make a broad band front end work any better except at excessive cost and complexity.

Lastly, I never said it was illegal to modify an amateur radio transmitter, I've been doing this as long as you have, I know better.

It is in my opinion, really dumb unless you have some very valid reason to do it and understand what you are doing. We have enough freeband idiots on the airwaves giving us a bad name. When one clown transmits on a public saftey freq the press and public don't think about the thousands of amateurs who operate legally. They simply codify all of us with the offender.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 06 2006,22:28)]So if your transmitter only goes to 29.6 you can switch crystals to move up a segment. Seems to me that changing crystals is a lot easier and less technically difficult than modifying a commercial transmitter to operate out of band.
I hope you're kidding, right?

Quote[/b] ]
That mod can produce spurious output in many cases since the transmit section of some radios have switched LPFs.

Nah, The BPF in the radios usually are there to protect from the 1st harmonic and up, Meaning that the high cut frequency of one BPF has to be less than twice the low cut frequency, that's all.
Usually the last BPF runs from 21 to 30, so to operate from 28 to 30, or even 26 to 30 poses no problem.

And what about a UHF transverter that covers 440 to 450?

Quote[/b] ]
Why not just install two or three crystals and a switch in the transverter. If you can mod a transmitter, you can certainly add a crystal or two.

Remove a diode on a PCB is, I think, a lot easier than building an oscillator for a crystal.
When I bought my 706, I opened the cover and smashed the diode with pliers before pluggin it for the first time..
Opened the box, opened the radio, smashed the diode, put the cover back on and then plugged it in. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Ok, it was like the 20th 706 I modified, so I knew where it was http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 06 2006,19:52)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 06 2006,22:28)]So if your transmitter only goes to 29.6 you can switch crystals to move up a segment. #Seems to me that changing crystals is a lot easier and less technically difficult than modifying a commercial transmitter to operate out of band.
I hope you're kidding, right?

Quote[/b] ]
That mod can produce spurious output in many cases since the transmit section of some radios have switched LPFs.

Nah, The BPF in the radios usually are there to protect from the 1st harmonic and up, Meaning that the high cut frequency of one BPF has to be less than twice the low cut frequency, that's all.
Usually the last BPF runs from 21 to 30, so to operate from 28 to 30, or even 26 to 30 poses no problem.

And what about a UHF transverter that covers 440 to 450?

Quote[/b] ]
Why not just install two or three crystals and a switch in the transverter. #If you can mod a transmitter, you can certainly add a crystal or two.

Remove a diode on a PCB is, I think, a lot easier than building an oscillator for a crystal.
When I bought my 706, I opened the cover and smashed the diode with pliers before pluggin it for the first time..
Opened the box, opened the radio, smashed the diode, put the cover back on and then plugged it in. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Ok, it was like the 20th 706 I modified, so I knew where it was #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
No, I'm not kidding. #Most older transverters used crystals in the LO. #The newer ones still have a reference crystal in the PLO that can be changed.

UHF transverters generally take a 2 meter input. #But if you have one that requires HF input the same rules apply. #A mixer is a mixer is a mixer..

Oh yeah, smashed the diode with pliers? Your not a CBer are you?

I never kid......

[K9STH]

It is much cheaper to cut a trace and install a resistor in an HR-2510 than it is to buy a good crystal for my Hallicrafters HA-2 from International Crystal at about $20 each. Resistors cost me around 3 cents each and I keep them in stock. Also, there are fewer machine screws to remove from my HR-2510 than from my HA-2 to access the interior. In addition, if I needed to cover the entire 2-meter band with only the 28.000 MHz to 29.6666 MHz i.f. I would need 4 crystals, 2 of which did not come with the transverter and would have to remove all of the screws each time that I needed to change the frequency response.

For proper shielding all of the machine screws need to be in place in the HA-2. It is a real pain to disconnect all of the cables that come into the HA-2 (there are 5 plus a ground wire), get it down from where it sits on my console (including removing the items that are on top - see photos on http://home.comcast.net/~k9sth ), changing the crystal, putting the HA-2 back together, putting the machine screws back in, putting the unit back on the shelf, reconnecting all of the cables, returning the things that are on top of the unit, turning it back on, and then using it.

Frankly, it is much easier just to put the crystal switch on the unit (which controls 2 crystals, one for 144 MHz to 146 MHz with a 28 MHz to 30 MHz input, and 146 MHz to 148 MHz on the other) in the 146 MHz to 148 MHz and then using the HR-2510 starting at 26 MHz. This gives me 144 MHz to 147.6666 MHz which takes care of all but the top 300 KHz of the band which is repeater inputs in this part of the country. If I need the top 300 KHz I can always turn on my TR-7850 MHz FM rig.

I know, there are other crystal manufacturers that are cheaper than International Crystal Company, 10 North Lee Street, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. However, it has been my experience (and I have bought crystals from other manufacturers over the years) that International Crystal is the best source for crystals including the fact that they warranty their crystals forever (I have a 432 MHz converter that was actually made in the ARRL laboratory in the very eary 1970s that the crystal went out, sent the crystal back to International, the original manufacturer, and they replaced it without charge).

It is the same for others who are using transverters. Even if they purchase crystal from a cheaper source they are still going to pay between $10 and $12 per crystal whereas they can modify their transceiver for very little, if any, out-of-pocket expense. Most transverter manufacturers have crystals for a 26 MHz to 30 MHz i.f. in stock and will furnish their transverters with such at no additional charge.

The result is that it is cheaper to modify the frequency of the i.f. than it is to purchase additional crystals. Also, depending on the physical construction of the transverter it is often easier to permanently modify the exciter than it is to change the crystal(s) and, possibly, have to retune the oscillator and/or the multipliers in the transverter.

Using the modified HR-2510 as an i.f. is perfectly legal. Since it is very easy to do the frequency expansion modification, it is both cheaper and more expedient to modify the exciter than it is to purchase additional crystals for my transverter.

Obviously you don't agree and that is most certainly your privilege. However, since I am a a very strong believer in the principles of the conservation of my finances and labor (you can read "cheap and lazy" if you wish to) I am always looking out for the cheapest method of achieving an end result as well as the easiest way of achieving the desired results.

Glen, K9STH

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 06 2006,22:56)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 06 2006,19:52)][quote=KA4DPO,Feb. 06 2006,22:28]So if your transmitter only goes to 29.6 you can switch crystals to move up a segment. Seems to me that changing crystals is a lot easier and less technically difficult than modifying a commercial transmitter to operate out of band.
Quote[/b] ]
I hope you're kidding, right?
No, I'm not kidding. Most older transverters used crystals in the LO. The newer ones still have a reference crystal in the PLO that can be changed.
That's exactly my point, it's a lot easier to remove a diode ONE TIME, even with a soldering iron http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif than start screwing around with crystals everytime you need to change the band segment. That's it... or I'm missing something.

Quote[/b] ]Oh yeah, smashed the diode with pliers? Your not a CBer are you?

Yes I am, but it has nothing to do, the diode is so easily accessible and since I don't need to save it, it is 10 times quicker and cleaner to smash it, or break it, or cut it, whatever you want.
Besides, by using a soldering iron for this, you heat up the multi-layer PC board for nothing.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 06 2006,19:28)][
Lastly, I never said it was illegal to modify an amateur radio transmitter, I've been doing this as long as you have, I know better.

It is in my opinion, really dumb unless you have some very valid reason to do it and understand what you are doing. We have enough freeband idiots on the airwaves giving us a bad name. When one clown transmits on a public saftey freq the press and public don't think about the thousands of amateurs who operate legally. They simply codify all of us with the offender.
DPO:

I will certainly agree with you there. And you at least admit there ARE legitimate reasons to perform a mod. I agree, if someone doesn't have a real legitimate reason to mod a radio, it IS foolish. (I think the rationale of a "possible emergency" is just a lot of bologna, and an excuse, not a reason.)
And if they intend to use it out of band, they should be drawn and quartered, then covered in rock salt. (I'll leave out the part about being used as a dummy load for a 50 kW broadcast station...) There certainly is no excuse for the misuse of a radio that has been modified; indeed, having such a radio is an increased responsibility not to be taken lightly. And as you point out, one person who misuses such a radio reflects negatively on us all.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 06 2006,20:29)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 06 2006,22:56)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 06 2006,19:52)][quote=KA4DPO,Feb. 06 2006,22:28]So if your transmitter only goes to 29.6 you can switch crystals to move up a segment. #Seems to me that changing crystals is a lot easier and less technically difficult than modifying a commercial transmitter to operate out of band.
Quote[/b] ]
I hope you're kidding, right?
No, I'm not kidding. #Most older transverters used crystals in the LO. #The newer ones still have a reference crystal in the PLO that can be changed.
That's exactly my point, it's a lot easier to remove a diode ONE TIME, even with a soldering iron #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif #than start screwing around with crystals everytime you need to change the band segment. That's it... or I'm missing something.

Quote[/b] ]Oh yeah, smashed the diode with pliers? #Your not a CBer are you?

Yes I am, but it has nothing to do, the diode is so easily accessible and since I don't need to save it, it is 10 times quicker and cleaner to smash it, or break it, or cut it, whatever you want.
Besides, by using a soldering iron for this, you heat up the multi-layer PC board for nothing.
First lets look at your post. You cut, or crushed a diode in your 706 to open the TX up. My question stands, why?

The IC-706 provides full coverage receive so you don't need any mod for that. The IC-706 transmits on all legal amateur frequencies from HF through 70 CM. You are a Canadian so you don't need MARS, I would bet money your not a member of the CAP, also a US organization. What do you need out of band transmit for? I guess that's between you and Industry Canada to decide Eh?

STH, I've seen pictures of your shack. Why don't you just use one of your million other radios that does transmit up to 29.0.... I don't believe you don't own a VHF/UHF rig in all that stuff. I also know that the only reason to use a transverter would be for SSB which ocupies the lower end of 2M and 70 CM. That would fit nicely with many of your SSB HF rigs all of which are most certainly better than an HR-2910. While it's technically easy to do, I don't see a real need to do it.

To repeat myself from a previous post.

It is in my opinion, really dumb to modify the transmitter of a commercial radio for out of band operation unless you have some very valid reason to do it and understand what you are doing.

We have enough freeband idiots on the airwaves giving us a bad name. When one clown transmits on a public saftey freq the press and public don't think about the thousands of amateurs who operate legally. They simply codify all of us with the offender.

[K9STH]

DPO:

You keep saying

"It is in my opinion, really dumb to modify the transmitter of a commercial radio for out of band operation unless you have some very valid reason to do it and understand what you are doing."

All that I, and several others, are doing is to point out one, or more, completely valid reasons for opeing up the transmitter coverage. I most certainly agree that the majority, in fact probably the vast majority, of persons who "open up" the transmit capabilities are doing it in order to use the radio illegally. That is a given.

You also stated that you have been modifying commercial amateur radio equipment for years. Why? It is your contention that there is no need to modify the equipment. Is there something special about your needs that are superior to the needs of others? I think that you can see where I am coming from. There are certain things that can best be served by modifying the equipment that are still completely legal.

Now the vast majority of amateur radio operators do not have the equipment that I have. Most have only one, or two at the most, rigs that are capable of operating on HF. You are denying their right to modify their equipment for the express purpose of more easily utilizing accessory equipment like a transverter.

Again, I am definitely against modifying equipment for the purpose of using it for transmitting outside of the amateur radio bands (with the express exceptions of MARS, CAP, etc.). However, it is my opinion that modifying the equipment to be used as an intermediate frequency with an accessory item that prdouces a signal that is within the amateur radio bands is definitely a VALID reason for doing the modification.

You comparisons are basically walnuts to grapefriuits. There is a vast difference between modifying a unit to use as an intermediate frequency when compared to modifying it to use the transmitting capabilities illegally.

Of course we are talking about the United States of America and posessions. The regulations in other countries are often completely different from those in this country.

Glen, K9STH

[w8cbc]

Personal discretion, personal responsibility. Just because I can transmit 100 watts clear from 1600 to 31000 kc doesn't mean I'm going to.

In my case, the wire had already been clipped when I got the 751A. I would have, for 60 metres, if it had not. I do throttle the thing back to 50 watts before I transmit in 60. Personal discretion again. (Yeah, I know, it's based on ERP, not output - but my aerials are less than efficient below 7 MC so I'm reasonably sure that my ERP is well within the limit.)

I wouldn't go spending a load of cash I cannot afford on brand-new gear just for 5 SSB channels, and wouldn't advocate forcing others to do so, when on a practical basis a simple modification to existing gear is all that is required.

We're hams. Supposedly builders and tinkers. Supposedly responsible enough to operate our gear within the regs no matter what it can actually do.

Take away the personal discretion, as has been done in so many other things, and I'll find something else to do.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 07 2006,09:13)]DPO:

You also stated that you have been modifying commercial amateur radio equipment for years. #Why? #It is your contention that there is no need to modify the equipment. #Is there something special about your needs that are superior to the needs of others? #I think that you can see where I am coming from. #There are certain things that can best be served by modifying the equipment that are still completely legal.


Glen, K9STH
Glen, I said I have been an Amateur for years. I have modified lots of radios but never modified any amateur equipment to work out of band.

John..

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 07 2006,11:50)]First lets look at your post. You cut, or crushed a diode in your 706 to open the TX up. My question stands, why?

The IC-706 provides full coverage receive so you don't need any mod for that. The IC-706 transmits on all legal amateur frequencies from HF through 70 CM. You are a Canadian so you don't need MARS, I would bet money your not a member of the CAP, also a US organization. What do you need out of band transmit for? I guess that's between you and Industry Canada to decide Eh?
Well, first of all I'm not in Canada since more than 6 years, I still have properties, adresses, bank accounts there however.

Second, when I was in Canada, many times I had to open up radios so they transmit on the commercial bands, between 4000 and 5500 KHz more or less. Many hunting and fishing resorts uses the BELL CANADA frequencies for autopatch, the most known are 5390KHz and 4630KHz if I'm not mistaken. These connects with Radio Alma operators.

Second, where I live I I'm working with communications, VHF and UHF across the country. I use my 706 in the commercial bands, easier than having 3 or 4 radios under the dash board. I use it for 11 meters too.

Basically, the problem is not the mod, but how you use your radio. Period.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ Feb. 07 2006,12:23)]We're hams. Supposedly builders and tinkers. Supposedly responsible enough to operate our gear within the regs no matter what it can actually do.
Amen to that.

[K9STH]

DPO:

When a radio is used as an intermediate frequency it is NOT operating out of band any more than the various intermediate frequencies of your commercially manufactured amateur radio transceiver. Technically, both are operating out of band. But, the actual end result is a signal that is within the amateur bands and that is what counts.

Glen, K9STH

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 07 2006,17:21)]DPO:

When a radio is used as an intermediate frequency it is NOT operating out of band any more than the various intermediate frequencies of your commercially manufactured amateur radio transceiver. #Technically, both are operating out of band. #But, the actual end result is a signal that is within the amateur bands and that is what counts.

Glen, K9STH
Correct, but we are talking about transmitting and not receiving. You somehow moved away from the central point of the discussion.

I have never seen a commercially made amateur transverter that uses a receive IF that was not available on a standard amateur HF or VHF or UHF radio. Certainly you could build one for any Intermediate Frequency you like but if you did I assume you would already have a radio capable of providing that frequency for you. The same goes for transmitting converters as well.

As Mac Says, dit dit...........

[K9STH]

Every modern transceiver that I know of uses intermediate frequencies on transmit as well as receive and that is what I am talking about.

Glen, K9STH

[K4KWH]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Feb. 06 2006,13:43)]73
I think that's precisely the point some of us are trying to make! #It's not the mod itself, but the MISUSE of the mod.

# #But be aware, CAP has greatly tightened it's standards as to which Amateur equipment is acceptable in CAP service once modified based on stability and frequency accuracy; most older models are no longer acceptable for CAP use. #Some newer model transceivers (typically with an optional TCXO, or temp compensated crystal oscillator installed) may still qualify, but the list of acceptable radios has shrunken drastically. #If you ARE in CAP, it's best to get the latest information directly from CAP, rather than relying on most Internet postings, such as here.[/QUOTE]


Oh, I know! #Been in CAP since 1964! It was what led me to Amateur Radio and whetted my interest in radio. #

There is a list of equipment for CAP that is acceptable under NTIA standards. #Actually, there are quite a few HF radios that make the NTIA "cut", but few to almost NO Amateur radios cut the mustard on VHF. #Most CAP VHF radios are Johnson, Vertex, or Tait with a some Kenwood and Motorolas thrown in for good measure. I am waiting for the Spectra series to age out so I can obtain one for my CAP station. Right now, I am using a Kenwood series VHF radio #for CAP and I will soon have to do away with THAT! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #If anyone knows of a Kenwood
730 (?) commercial series VHF for sale, let me know! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Feb. 07 2006,21:24)]There is a list of equipment for CAP that is acceptable under NTIA standards. Actually, there are quite a few HF radios that make the NTIA "cut", but few to almost NO Amateur radios cut the mustard on VHF. Most CAP VHF radios are Johnson, Vertex, or Tait with a some Kenwood and Motorolas thrown in for good measure.
Is it really because of the specs, or because the brands did good lobbying? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Feb. 07 2006,18:04)]Every modern transceiver that I know of uses intermediate frequencies on transmit as well as receive and that is what I am talking about.

Glen, K9STH

First let me thank you for sharing that bit of information. I had no idea that tranceivers had a transmit IF. Boy do I feel stupid now.....

What I'm talking about, and have been from the beginning is using the radio as a tunable IF and modifying the radio to transmit out of band for the purpose of driving a transmiting converter. #

We all know that modern HF radios with few exceptions have full coverage receivers making them a tunable receive IF for almost anything you could want.

This discussion began about modifying the transmit capability of a radio to accomodate a transmitting converter to which I responded that that's dumb since it's probably easier to drop a crystal in the transverter than to mess with the radio and risk trouble. #

Somehow that got wrangled to receiver intermediate frequncies and a host of other diatribe that have absolutely no impact on the discussion.

My primary concern was, and remains that while it is not illegal to modify a transmitter to operate on non amateur frequencies why would you want to? #Ninety nine percent of the operators who do such mods do it so they can operate illegally. #I still take a very dim view of that. #

Perhaps you think that's ok. #You certainly have that right just as I do to think otherwise.



John..

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 07 2006,21:38)]My primary concern was, and remains that while it is not illegal to modify a transmitter to operate on non amateur frequencies why would you want to? Ninety nine percent of the operators who do such mods do it so they can operate illegally. I still take a very dim view of that.

Perhaps you think that's ok. You certainly have that right just as I do to think otherwise.
And this question has been answered.

Now if people use the mods to do illegal things, that is not your problem or concern.

BTW, is your car able to go over the speed limit?

[kf4lne]

Mine does, quite often...

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 07 2006,19:14)]BTW, is your car able to go over the speed limit?
Only if you clip a diode or two... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 07 2006,19:14)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 07 2006,21:38)]My primary concern was, and remains that while it is not illegal to modify a transmitter to operate on non amateur frequencies why would you want to? #Ninety nine percent of the operators who do such mods do it so they can operate illegally. #I still take a very dim view of that. #

Perhaps you think that's ok. #You certainly have that right just as I do to think otherwise.
And this question has been answered.

Now if people use the mods to do illegal things, that is not your problem or concern.

BTW, is your car able to go over the speed limit?
Depending on which one, by a mile....Or two...

Fast.....

http://home.earthlink.net/~buracho/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/bmw-1.jpg

Way Faster...

http://home.earthlink.net/~buracho/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cobra-1.jpg

[K4KWH]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Feb. 07 2006,18:32)]Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Feb. 07 2006,21:24)]There is a list of equipment for CAP that is acceptable under NTIA standards. #Actually, there are quite a few HF radios that make the NTIA "cut", but few to almost NO Amateur radios cut the mustard on VHF. #Most CAP VHF radios are Johnson, Vertex, or Tait with a some Kenwood and Motorolas thrown in for good measure.
Is it really because of the specs, or because the brands did good lobbying? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
No. The Mfrs. had nothing to do with it. The standards are determined by the National Telecommunications & Information Agency (NTIA), a US Federal entity that determines that sprectral requirements for Government radios. If the CAP members themselves had their 'druthers, there wouldn't be any such requirements. But their personal equipment has to meet these stricter standards if they want to use their own equipment on the
Federal and military frequencies.

Most of the manufacturers have HF equipment that will meet the NTIA standards with an optional TCXO unit. The new IC7000 meets the HF standard with-OUT additional filters/crystals.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kf4lne]

Does anyone know if I can mod this peice of equipment (http://www.nautel.com/Q40.aspx) for use on MURS?


http://www.thomas-distributing.com/images/galman.jpg

[K9STH]

DPO:

You are the one who thought we were discussing receiver intermediate frequencies, not the rest of us. We knew that we were discussing transmitters.

What is a shame is that we agree that the vast majority of people who modify the transmit capabilities of rigs do so to use them illegally. That is just plain wrong!

Where we disagree is in the area where it is completely legal to use the equipment and that is as the injection frequency for a transverter. There is nothing wrong with your way of doing things. However, your method is definitely more expensive and, depending on the actual model of the transverter, can be a major pain in the posterior to implement.

We can continue to beat this poor old horse who died several posts back. No one, it seems, is going to convince you that modifying the transmit capabilities for a LEGAL use which is the easiest and cheapest method is the way to go. If you want to spend the additional finances to achieve what can be done for little or no cost then you are well within your rights to do this. But, please don't criticize those who are achieving the same end result in an easier way that is definitely legal.

Glen, K9STH

[kf6rdn]

So does anyone have the MARS/CAP mod for my Hello Kitty 101 2 meter? And by the way, what channel is Jack in the Box on?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kf4lne]

Not sure about Jack in the Box, but Taco Bell uses 154.57 in a lot of places with a PL of 88.5 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,09:24)]Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Feb. 05 2006,08:30)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Feb. 05 2006,08:17)]Anyone who opens up the transmitt on an amateur radio should be summarily beaten with a big hunk of RG-8. #There is simply no need or reason to do that other than to be a Bozo and cause trouble.
Pardon moi, but which type of "amateur radio" are we discussing?

Ever use a transverter with an HF rig?

For example, 6 and 2M are 4 MHz in size. To get full coverage of those bands with the spread centered on 28MHz, one would need TX/RX coverage of 26-30 MHz.
Pardon Moi right back.... #I have never purchased a transverter, I have designed and built several of them however.

To get the necessary TX range to cover the 4 MHZ spread on 6 and 2 meters you simply need two crystals in the master oscillator section of the transverter.

Something like 22 and 24 MHZ for 6. #I use to use lower frequency crystals and double or triple them. #You get better stability that way. #You also don't have to screw around with your expensive HF equipment that way.

Some of my homebrew equipment was, and is capable of transmitting outside the band but I try to design it to be as close within the legal band edges as possible. #I have no need or reason to TX outside of any frequency I'm licensed for and have a really dim view of anyone stupid enough to think they do, REALLY DIM.

If you're a cop, you have a police radio. #If you're a fireman, you have a fire department radio, etc. etc... #If you're an amateur then stay where you belong and let the professional cops, fire and EMS do their jobs. #They don't need or want you on their frequencies.

As Mac says-------dit dit......
STH, Glen:

This was my post from the second page on the thread. #Notice the reference to transmitting using a converter (transverter) and modifying transmit to do so. #

I have been refering to TX all along. #Receiver mixing is inconsequential to the discussion. #But all commercial VHF transverters, and all of my old home brew ones always used the same IF frequency of either 14 or 28 MHZ. #You certainly could use separate mixing LO's but I can't imagine why.

And you are correct about convincing me that modifying a radios transmitter is necessary since I haven't seen any amateur transmitting converter that requires input outside of the normal amateur bands.

[WA9SVD]

DPO:
Sorry to chime in, BUT:

MOST (not all) transverters have traditionally used IF's of 14 or 28 MHz because those were assumed to be ubiquitious frequencies for Amateur equipment, whether it was general coverage OR "Ham Band only."
The only issue is that despite the fact those (and more recent transverters) started coverage in (or near) an Amateur band, they STILL would not allow full coverage on the output band while remaining within the 20 or 10 Meter Amateur frequency allocation.
While your suggestion of switching crystals may in deed be workable, it is certainly MUCH more expensive and unwieldy, to say the least.

No one is saying radios should be modified for no valid reason, and those that do so with the intent to operate "out of band," certainly deserve punishment to the full extent of the law. (Boiled in old transformer oil comes to mind.) Those that do so "on a whim," I agree, are probably foolish, as it isn't worth the time or effort to "mod" a radio for no known reason, other than bragging rights. THAT is certainly foolish. Or at least very unwise. You seem to take the view that anyone who "mods" their (transmitter) is intent upon mischief and out-of-band operation. That may be true for some, or even many, but that is NOT true for all. Glen and others have given several reasons why mods can be (need to be) performed for valid, legitimate reasons.
But it IS the ultimate responsibility of each operator to ensure they stay within the rules, regulations, and frequency allocations of the Amateur Service, and in accordance with their license class, whatever radio they use, whether boat anchor, home brew, commercial, or hybrid. (Meaning modified.)
Please, don't assume that ALL people who perform "mods" on their radios are miscreants, and it would be a shame (and IMHO a great disservice) if commercial gear did not allow modification for those that are responsibile in the use thereof.

[N3ATS]

It's no different then buying an amplifier that's capable of 2K or more. It's up to the operator to be responsibile for his/her own actions.

I modded my radios to operate on 60 meters. And I do operate there. LOG (http://www.n3ats.com/?Online_QSO_Log::HF_Log)

[ai4ep]

.....duh.....havent we all been through all of this type of situation before...on another thread ? :rock:

IMHO...if you want a radio that transmits on a police / fire frequency, then go buy one that is made for those frequencies.

No need in modifying a great 2 meter / 440 rig for " out-of-band " operation...just go get a seperate radio for the " police / fire frequencies "...they dont cost THAT much , plus you get an opportunity to trade / sell / swap off something around the house you really do not need to get a radio like that.

Hey, have a yard sale, garage sale, go to a local flea market and spend a few hours selling things around your home that you do not need or ever use and then you will have more than enough $ to get a good new / used radio for your " police / fire " involvement.

But there is no real need to modify a perfectly good ht / mobile / base amateur rig for those frequencies. Plus 9 times out of 10 it might hurt the re-sell value of that perfectly good rig, should you want / need to sell it in the far, far future ( like a month or two from now ) .

AI4EP ( ever popular ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[WA9SVD]

AI4EP:

Not meant to be a personal attack or flame, but aren't you a little late in the discussion???

I am not sure I understand your comment, because I don't think anyone has the need (or right, excuse, ratioanle, etc.) to use any equipment on a frequency for which they are not authorized, or with equipment that is not certified, regardless of who/what/where they work. If you ARE a law enforcement officer, then you have authorization to use the frequency (or frequencies) assigned to your particular organization. BUT, you are required to use ONLY certified equipment, and that never includes modified Amateur equipment. And if you are NOT an authorized user of such a frequency, it doesn't matter if you transmit with certified equipment or not, it is STILL illegal. Mere posession of certified equipment does NOT entitle a user to use it anywhere or everywhere they want.

The whole discussion has (IMHO) been about the propriety of responsible Amateur operators modifying their equipment for valid, legal, and legitimate reasons, or whether such reasons even exist..

It's not HOW you operate out of band, (if that is your intention,) but whether on not you DO operate out-of band.

but we seem to have gotten off the original thread, if there was one.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Feb. 09 2006,18:18)]AI4EP:

Not meant to be a personal attack or flame, but aren't you a little late in the discussion???
Don't worry, he's only trying to hit the 10 000 post mark as soon as possible http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[ai4ep]

nsm...you made it to 1000 !! Congradulations http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ai4ep]

duh...havent we all been through all of this before, on another thread ....? ( duh )

when are we going to see something NEW / DIFFERENT / ORIGINAL ?

your turn.....:D


{ hey, how about a " code / no code " thread ? }

How about ===

chevy vs dodge

diet drinks vs non-diet drinks

pizza vs steak

push mowers vs riding mowers

bud vs miller

blondes vs redheads

tubeless tires vs tubed tires

g5rv vs other antennas

icom vs kenwood

alinco vs yeasu

etc etc etc http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif