How can a 9 year old copy 20wpm

[VE7NOT]

How do thy do it. I can send at probablt 15 wpm if i try. No one doubts that. I can receiver and one or two ansd that at best. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[wb7dmx]

I guess some have it and some don't.
just takes practice ole buddy

[KA8NCR]

Young people have the ability to quickly grasp language, and morse code is nothing more than another language.

I've been trying to master another language for years and it's difficult; very difficult. Not only is the learning part hard, but having the time to work on it is also difficult. When I was 14, I taught myself morse code over summer break. I've been working on German for three years.

[W5HTW]

It is true some people have a knack for learning sounds, hence musicians who play by ear, instead of reading music.

Yet in my years of teaching Morse code as a ham, and in my years in professional communications using Morse, I never ran across someone who could not learn code. I ran across a few who would not learn it, of course, but that is mind set, not ability. I also knew a few who did not have the correct combination of ambition, motivation and methods. If you use the wrong method, no matter how hard you try, it will probably be nearly impossible. Worse yet, if you learn it a little, using the wrong method, in order to learn it you then have to unlearn the incorrect method.

That is what happens to so many people. They want to learn the code just enough to pass the test. Well, that really isn't awfully difficult in the US, where the test if 5 wpm. Anyone can learn it at that speed, and I do mean anyone. All they have to do is want to.

The problem comes when they find they want to go a little faster. Since they learned code using the "dot-dash" method, they are stuck. About 8 wpm is maximum, and even that will be a strain.

I would guess you have been learning it using the wrong method. That makes it pretty bad, as you have to back up and start from scratch using the right method. If you do that, you will think you are worse at it than ever, for a short time. Suddenly, though, it will start to make sense, and you will be doing 5 or 6 wpm in no time. It is the unlearning of the bad choices that is the hardest part.

If you have not tried it, download the G4FON software. Use it according to the directions, precisely. Start from the very beginning, and do not jump ahead. Put your pencil down. Copy in your head only. Don't write anything. Learn to hear the code, not count the dots and dashes.

Forget sending! If you can't "hear" the code, you have no idea if you are sending correct code or not! It's impossible to know! Imagine! If you were deaf, and were trying to play a guitar "by ear" - not reading music - how would you do that? What you are sending may be completely unreadable to someone else. Stop! Put your key or bug or keyer aside. Learn to hear the code. Only when you are hearing the code at 5 to 7 wpm, should you return to trying to send, and then only at the speed you can copy. Make YOUR code sound like the code you are hearing. Then, and only then, start to pick up the pencil again, and write it down.

Yep, it means starting over. If you do it right, if you follow the instructions, you will be copying code at 5 wpm in two weeks of nightly practice. Some folks can do it in less time, some a bit longer. But if you learn it the right method, and practice it the right way, you'll pass a 5 wpm test in a month, starting from zero.

Since most folks can't honestly dedicate a nightly half hour session to code, it will probably take a bit longer. But if you can do it, religiously, it will take a month to pass the test. Then if you goal is faster, get on the air, use the code, and in anywhere from three more months to six months you'll be buzzing along at 12-13 wpm.

Good luck
ed

[KW4MW]

I was 14 when I learned code. #I tried to copy W1AW broadcasts and on air QSO's and for the longest time it seemed like I wasn't doing very well. #Then one night I looked at my scribbles and realized that I had sucessfully copied an on air QSO, a kind of a break through experience for me. #

I think that if you give it 15 mins. / night just trying to copy W1AW or regular QSO's you'll also eventually have a break through.

As far as comparing it to learning another language, it seems that way to some people. #Me, I flunked French - Twice!. # C'est la vie. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K9YLI]

Some thing that might help is to learn to juggle.
I learned in about 45 minutes of practice.
The final suprising test was to quit trying to keep track of what you hands were doing and just let your subconscience take over.
My speed is way down after so many years of not using it. I think the answer is to pick a mental letter and anytime you cant remember, write that one down.
I have always had trouble with f and l and q and y.
I get the q but the y makes me do a whats that?
And I have a y in my call lbut inless it follows the number I miss.
also same with the l.
So what I want to try when all the cars are fixed, is "when it doubt put down L or Q. " so as not to dwell on it and miss the next.
Stop thinmking about it just scribble donw the first thing that comes to mind. Which is onbe of the letters you have trouble with.
As for why. Women have a knack too. They can do shorthand, which boggles my mind.

My brother and his wife went to classes long ago. He was struggling with 5 wpm. His wife could copy 18 ..

[K9STH]

I am thinking of taking a code practice oscillator when my wife and I go to visit our youngest daughter in Powder Springs, Georgia (suburban Atlanta). My granddaughter is almost 18 months old (and will be a couple of months older by the time we get to Georgia). She is already learning the alphabet (her "other" grandmother just retired as an elementary school teacher and has provided all sorts of flash cards) and knows most of the letters.

I am thinking of sending the International Morse code for a letter while holding up the flash card and saying the name of the letter. The same thing for the numerals. I don't think that punctuation would be a good thing because she isn't reading.

My son-in-law's eldest sister was also a school teacher who worked with handicapped students including the deaf. She says that it is very easy for young children to learn sign language and has been teaching Maya how to sign. Maya often both says what she wants and signs at the same time. At times she just signs and at other times says what she wants. Therefore I don't see any reason why she can't learn the International Morse code.

My youngest daughter did learn the code over 10 years ago but then lost interest in getting an amateur radio operator's license (well, she "broke up" with the boyfriend who was interested in getting his license and therefore lost interest). As such, if I can get Wendy to continue to work with Maya after we leave I am pretty sure that Maya can become proficient in the code by the time she can read and write.

I have been teaching code for over 45 years and I haven't found anyone who wants to learn the code that could not learn the code. Now I have one person who refuses to stop "counting" the dits and dahs who just cannot get up to 5 words per minute. However, until he does stop counting and starts to actually listen to the sound he isn't going to get anywhere. He will try listening for a few minutes but then goes right back to counting. This person has been trying to learn the code for about 2 years. But, he just is "spinning his wheels" since it is extremely difficult to "count" the dits and dahs and really learn the code.

If people approach learning the International Morse code as learning a new language that has less than 50 total words and listen to the "sound" of the character instead of trying to count the dits and dahs they will learn the code in a very short period of time.

The fastest that I have ever had a student learn the code was less than 1 hour. I had a fraternity brother in college who decided that he wanted to get his Novice Class license. This person had played a musical instrument in high school and definitely had a "knack" for tones. However, he also did NOT have a photographic mind.

Gary not only learned the letters, numbers, and punctuation marks, but made it to around 10 words per minute copying speed. He also retained the ability to copy code because I would check him out every so often. Now I admit that this is definitely an exception to the rule in the time frame for learning the code. But, I have found that the "average" time to learn the code is about 6 weeks with classes twice a week. Of course the student has to practice just about every day.

I say average because some students learn within 3 to 4 weeks and some take 8 to 9 weeks. But if the person is willing to learn then they can learn.

Glen, K9STH

[WA5KRP]

It never occurred to the 9 year old that they couldn't.



WA5KRP
Texas

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (WA5KRP @ Jan. 23 2006,10:05)]It never occurred to the 9 year old that they couldn't.



WA5KRP
Texas
That's exactly right, and probably the biggest reason.

Nobody ever told the 9 year-old that this was hard to do.

Same reason 9 year-olds can become professional skateboarders by eleven, and a 40 year-old usually just falls off the damned thing and hurts himself.

Same reason I can teach 2 year-olds how to swim (and I've done it plenty of times, including with all my own kids) but it's almost impossible to teach a 30 year-old who never learned it.

Same reason one of my XYL's preschool students can already understand and speak five languages fluently (multi-lingual household, including the grandparents) but trying to teach one adult a new language is a very tiring job.

WB2WIK/6

[wa4brl]

W5HTW is right... except about having to start over again if you learned the wrong way. Well, to be fair, he IS partially right. My experience was after learning the wrong way -- memorized the dots and dashes out of my Boy Scout manual one afternoon -- I was able to practice with a friend on a code oscillater, pass the Novice test, and get on the air. I progressed very quickly to 10-WPM and hit the "plateau" there. I didn't go back and re-learn the code by the right method. I just kept plugging away on the novice bands making contacts and having a ball. Yeah, I was disappointed my speed wasn't increasing, but I still had fun on the air daily. Eventually (after about 8 months) my mind had finally established the proper relationships between the sounds and the letters and I didn't have to "translate" them any longer. Then my speed started shooting up again. Now, that was cool, a perfect linear relationship -- the more time spent on the air, the faster my copying speed became. Of course, I did hit another limit -- the highest speed I could send on my trusty J-38. That was about 26 WPM. I was copying 28 WPM when I went to Norfolk for my General exam, so the code test wasn't even an issue.

Teaching Novice classes in the 70's and 80's, students used the 7-WPM ARRL tapes that came with the "Tune in The World" package. The tapes sent the sound for each new letter and explained that the student should write down the letter every time they hear that sound. I sent both text and random letter groups in the twice-weekly classes. The practice for each class incorporated the next group of letters from the tape lessons. By the time the students had finished the tape, 95 % easily passed the 5 WPM test. The rest usually passed with another week of practice.

Interestingly, at that point, I challenged most of the classes to copy straight text at 20-WPM. The first time I did I was shocked to find that most were able to copy about 70% of the letters CORRECTLY onto their papers. With the later classes, I was no longer shocked, but it sure reassured me that the training method was sound (pun intended!).

It sure beat MY learning experience, slugging it out at 10 WPM for 8 months until my mind finally got it straight. In the end, though, it really didn't matter. I had a ball with it then and I'm still enjoying it some 35 years later.

[W2ILP]

I know of a Chinese kid that can speak, read and write Chinese. #She is only 9 years old. #I can't speak, read or write Chinese. # There are probably more people on Earth that speak Chinese and can't speak English or send CW. #This kid has a bright future.

I feel sorry for the nine year old who can copy CW, which is fast becoming a lost language.
I am sure that the kid who speaks Chinese has Chinese parents. #I'll bet that the kid who knows CW has one or both parents who are Hams. #They are doing the CW kid no service in my humble opinion.

Yep..We come to an CW impasse at about 10 wpm. #This is when we have to forget about converting sounds to dots and dashes and then converting the dots and dashes to characters. #This is where to increase speed we must convert sounds directly to characters. #I know,
because that is what I had to learn to pass the 20 wpm Extra test.

Today they teach kids with phonics. #This helps them learn to convert characters to sounds. #It helps them get started quickly...BUT the old method of whole word recognition is better in the long run, because it helps people convert whole words to whole concepts, without any middle narrow mind conversions.

w2ilp (Idiots Learn Phonetically)

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Jan. 23 2006,12:18)]I know of a Chinese kid that can speak, read and write Chinese. #
Paper towels are the neatest invention since sliced bread. I just hope I have enough! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC7ATO]

The claim that "anyone" can learn Morse Code has about as much merit as the claim that "anyone" can hit high "C" in an opera or play a Mozart concerto at age 5. How about "anyone" can run the hundred in under 9 seconds or the mile in less than 3.5! Some folks can do things others cannot do and have a God given "gift" called "talent" for doing those things. I have been a Pilot for over 50 years and in all those hours of flying I have never even as much as dented a wingtip. So I think it's like "different strokes for different folks" and "viva la differance".

[AC0H]

I've been told by a couple of guys who should know that you can't actually send any faster than you can copy. You may think your sending at 15wpm but how do you know if you can't copy what your sending? You may be sending gibberish.

Yes, anybody can learn CW.
There are more than a few examples of people conquering the code with what would be considered sever handicaps, like the middle aged lady in one of my CW classes who had sever tinitis from too many years of shooting trap without hearing protection.

Because it comes easier to some than to others doesn't mean it's impossible to learn. It may take longer and progress will be slower but it can be done.

[W2ILP]

I'm sorry if I made any of you think...BUT
In my opinion any kid who has normal hearing can learn CW just as well as any kid can learn the language that is commonly spoken around him or her. Scientists don't completely know how but this is part of being human and is natures (or God's if you will) gift to man kind.
The African Pigmys speak in a language that clicks just as much as the old TTY did.

To learn CW, just as to learn any spoken language, a kid has to be exposed to it from infancy and hear it every day. If you think that exposing an infant or young child ito Morse code and having them learn English as a second language is a good idea then I can't agree with you. Don't paper over this even with paper towels.

Generally, adults who have not been exposed to Morse code in their early childhood have a much more difficult time in learning it. I started trying to copy CW at the age of 6 when I was an SWL but could not pass the 13 wpm CW exam required for a ham license at that time. I think it would have been harder to learn from scratch had I started when I was an adult, just as it is now hard for me to master a foreign language.

w2ilp (I Learn Previously)...and that is why CW is not so hard for me.

[VE7NOT]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Jan. 23 2006,12:18)]I feel sorry for the nine year old who can copy CW, which is fast becoming a lost language.
I am sure that the kid who speaks Chinese has Chinese parents. I'll bet that the kid who knows CW has one or both parents who are Hams. They are doing the CW kid no service in my humble opinion.
Prehaps you should see her site. i was impressed.

9 year old extra (http://www.ae7mc.co.uk/)

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] ] How can a 9 year old copy 20wpm, And I can copy 1wpm at best after months
He's smarter then you?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Kidding!

[WS2L]

In 1978 when I was 13 years old I was able to learn and retain the alphbet, numbers and puncuation in two days. Yes I did spend a lot of hours working on it in those two days and was successfuly pass the test. Now getting up to 20 wpm was a little more challenging.

[W5EWD]

Listen to code about 30 minutes a day. You might try and take the microphone off the radio until you pass the code test.
Everett
W5EWD

[n2nh]

Try Farnsworth Spacing at 13 WPM and code sent at 5 WPM. That's how it's given on the American exam and it's the way it's taught here. Might help a bit. Alternatively, try to get more listening time in. I was always told 15 minutes in the morning and 15 more at night. Gud Luck.

[KC0KBH]

Don't feel bad; I'm almost 15, and can't copy CW much at all. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I hardly passed my CW test. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KG4CGC]

I find that flourescent lighting and hard wooden furniture is always condusive to studying.

[kd5rpo]

ve7not: have you considered that you may have dyslexia? I am not trying to put you down, but there might be an alternative way to think about to approach the problem.

The wording of your posts is darn good, but the words are often misspelled or out of order. I would like to see you get your goals accomplished.

[VE7NOT]

Quote[/b] (kd5rpo @ Jan. 23 2006,20:19)]ve7not: have you considered that you may have dyslexia? I am not trying to put you down, but there might be an alternative way to think about to approach the problem.

The wording of your posts is darn good, but the words are often misspelled or out of order. I would like to see you get your goals accomplished.
I had to track down what that even was http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Looking at 3 different sites made me think probably not or if i do its mild. I do know these facts>>

1. My short term memory is not the best but long term quite good.

2. I'm good at math.

3. I can't spell. (I can spell better then I do on here but I tend to rush typing and rarely double-check.)

4. I do have a hearing problem.

5. I know morse code yes... but can I receive it at any speed?... no. (the only charactors I don't know are some of the 'extras')

[kd5rpo]

If you have been able to play any musical instrument, or sing in a school or church choir, you will do OK. You must think of the letters and other symbols as a musical sound.

[KC0KBH]

Well, my hearing isn't very good right now either (I have fluid on the other side of the eardrum in my left ear). http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif It is like having water in my ear. I'm getting used to it now, since it is slowly going away, it seems. The only time I ever use spell check is on reports for school. Other than that, none of my emails or posts are spell checked. I'm sort of a fanatic of good grammar and spelling. I am pretty obcessive compulsive, though. If I don't have something to obcess over, I go nuts from having nothing to do. The current obcession is waste vegetable oil burners, and will probably be for a while, during the maple syrup season. Last weeks obcessions included oil burners, milling machines and metal lathes, and free ipods. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[K5USS]

NOT,

Check your E-mail...

Charlie
K5USS

[k7nys]

Quote[/b] (kd5rpo @ Jan. 23 2006,20:19)]ve7not: have you considered that you may have dyslexia? #I am not trying to put you down, but there might be an alternative way to think about to approach the problem.

The wording of your posts is darn good, but the words are often misspelled or out of order. #I would like to see you get your goals accomplished.
Dyslexics of the world UNTIE!!!

I have tried many times over many years to learn the code....just can't grasp it and I'm tired of spending money on tapes and software...if you think anyone can do it, I have a bridge for sale....oh wait I already sold it.

[K9STH]

NYS:

"Dyslexics of the world UNTIE!!!"

Are all of them all tied up? That would make quite a network.

Now if you mean "Dyslexics of the world UNITE!!!" then that is something completely different.

How the order of the letters in a word affect the meaning.

Glen, K9STH

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Jan. 23 2006,22:54)]NYS:

"Dyslexics of the world UNTIE!!!"

Are all of them all tied up? #That would make quite a network.

Now if you mean "Dyslexics of the world UNITE!!!" then that is something completely different.

How the order of the letters in a word affect the meaning.

Glen, K9STH
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifYou appear to have missed the essence of NYS' intentionally dyslexic post.


OY!




WA5KRP
Texas

[N0WVA]

Build some simple cw gear and use it on the air. It will be such a blast, you will automatically increase in speed as you make QSO's. Nothing like it. I promise.

[N8CPA]

I know a dyslexic atheist. Lately, he's been trying very hard to convince me there is no Dog.

[K5UOS]

N0WVA,

I like your idea too. Building or even working on a receiver kinda increases ones incentive to listen more. Probably the same with a simple homebrew CW transmitter. Makes you get on the air and practice.

When I taught code I used a method my dad used on me. I told jokes at 1 to 5WPM. When someone chuckled I knew they copied well. I did notice that women seemed to learn faster than the guys but never use it once they received their ticket. Last woman I worked was (I believe) the wife of the FISTS founder. It has been quite some time since working a teen or younger.

K5UOS

[K5UOS]

N8CPA,

" know a dyslexic atheist. Lately, he's been trying very hard to convince me there is no Dog."

That's really dab!!!!!

UOS

[K9STH]

KRP:

If he was being dyslexic he would have posted "etinu" and not "untie".

Glen, K9STH