Who in the Sam Hill ever thought the

[w0tdh]

Not me..........But, unless you are starting up another organization, what else is there.???
I still say there are 500K slackers out there just WHINING.

Join the ARRL and make the difference. VOTE!!!

Tom - KØPJG
Life Member ARRL

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ Dec. 18 2005,20:24)]Quote[/b] (K0PJG @ Dec. 18 2005,12:19)]Not me..........But, unless you are starting up another organization, what else is there.???
I still say there are 500K slackers out there just WHINING.

Join the ARRL and make the difference. VOTE!!!

Tom - KØPJG
Life Member ARRL
And as a current member it is your strong arm tactics that still have me questioning whether I will renew when the time comes.
Having never been a member, never wanting to be a member, and having been pissed off by the League before I ever got a ticket, I can safely say to the original poster.... BUGGER OFF!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[ad4mg]

I'm one of those 500k slackers, and damn proud of it. #If the ARRL wants to destroy the amateur radio service, they can do it without my support and money.

This post was an official ARRL "bashing".

[KC0W]

Quote[/b] (K0PJG @ Dec. 19 2005,01:19)]Join the ARRL and make the difference. VOTE!!!
Vote?

For what? Other than voting for "section managers," what are you voting for?

The lowering of testing standards that the ARRL proposed & implemented still makes me nauseous.......The real fun will begun when we get tens of thousands of inexperienced new op's on HF. I'm NOT saying that all the new op's will be HF inexperienced........But.



Tom kcØw

[KC9ECI]

So far, I've been less than impressed with the ARRL and it's attitude. I will give credit where credit is due though, I have been contacted by ARRL officials 'off the board' on a couple of occasions on various matters. As for renewal, I'm leaning towards not. The only reason I might renew is that I'm interested in becoming a VE. However, at the rate things are going, VE's won't be needed in a few more years when you can just buy your amateur license like a hunting or fishing license.

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 18 2005,20:40)]The only reason I might renew is that I'm interested in becoming a VE. However, at the rate things are going, VE's won't be needed in a few more years when you can just buy your amateur license like a hunting or fishing license.
Just like back in the days in the 80s. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kd7msc]

Has it been a month already? Wow! Time flies. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[KC9ECI]

Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ Dec. 18 2005,20:56)]Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 18 2005,12:40)]The only reason I might renew is that I'm interested in becoming a VE.
ARRL membership is not required to serve as a VE with the ARRL/VEC or any other.
Well then, you sold me. No need to renew.

[KA4DPO]

I don't care for the recent dumming down policy being pushed by ARRL.

We were all inexperienced when we first started out but the novice license gave all of us an opportunity to grow into HF and learn some things about the hobby before we wreaked havoc on the phone bands.

I don't see that happening now and I certainly don't see a lot of radio savy individuals comming into the ranks. Lets face it, the appliance operator mentality is good for selling advertising space in amateur radio magazines.

[K3UD]

Right now I am a member and have been for a rather long time. On the other hand I am waiting to see how the ARRL's regulation by bandwidth shakes out and how it will affect my on the air operations. If this proves to be a bad situation for me I will most likely not renew. I think we are talking about several years down the road before we know how good or bad it is going to be. Unfortunately, in its present form I don't see a lot of good in it at this point in time.

No one ever said that the ARRL is perfect and you can not expect perfection of an organization run by humans. All we can judge it by is how things that they propose to the FCC eventually turn out and how it affects you as a licensed and active amateur. At that point personal decisions are made as to whether or not you continue to support the ARRL or see fit to become a new member.

73
George
K3UD

[N5PVL]

I like the ARRL as an organization, but I can only look down on the current executive cadre, after the antics related to the bandwidth segmentation proposal.

A one-time supporter of Jim Haynie, now I think very little of him, when I think of him at all. His behavior here at QRZ.Com immediately after the BSP first came out was inexcusable, and what I have learned about his involvement in the crooked shenannigans associated with the bandwidth segmentation proposal is far from impressive.

Now days I can only see myself as supporting the ARRL after it has gone through an organizational enema. All of the executives, and most of the board need to take a hike, if the ARRL is going to have a snowball's chance of seeing my support in the future. From what I can tell, many other hams feel the same.

There may not be an alternative organization now, but as the ARRL continues to go downhill, trying to drag the hobby down with it, it becomes more and more plausible every day that an alternate organization could rise and replace the ARRL. - All it would have to do is to show the kind of character and sense of mission that ARRL once had, but now so sorely lacks.

The ARRL's future, in my opinion, is directly related to how deeply the clique of parasites who are currently in charge are embedded. If they can be dislodged, then the ARRL has a chance. If not... ( Hand slowly tipping, spilling sand. )

[KC0KBH]

I've always wanted to be an ARRL member; for the QST's. The dang free articles online are all the "it seems to us" things. I love the projects. Right now I have 6 isssues of QST I got from another ham that I have read over and over and over and over and over.

[k6ncx]

Quote[/b] (kc0w @ Dec. 18 2005,18:36)]For what? Other than voting for "section managers," what are you voting for?
Directors. The people who can make policy go this way or that.

[WA2ZDY]

ARRL hasn't been right since Tuska, Warner, Handy, et al moved on to the final DXpedition.

[n0iu]

Could it be this guy http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

KC5NMY

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ Dec. 18 2005,20:04)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Dec. 18 2005,13:26)]I don't care for the recent dumming down policy being pushed by ARRL.
Oh, you mean the push for a "meaninful entry level license". Meaningful could be difined as something that a person would hold of value, in other words it means something to them. If it means that much to them they will work for it and do what it takes to get it.

Yes, the ARRL has been instrumental in trying to develop a new breed of armchair operators and it becomes more and more disgusting by the day.

No, I am not slamming newcomers, NCTs or those who only had to pass 5wpm. Sorry to disappoint you but this problem is bigger than any one section, it involves all aspects not just whichever of the smaller groups you might attach yourself to. As for destroying the hobby, it will change the hobby whether that change will be for the better or not I have no idea. It does, however, have the potential to demean if not destroy the service side of operating. Dumming down as it has been called immediately results in a greater number of operators with less training and underdeveloped skills. Long term some of these will work to improve their skills and practices and some will wait for operating practices to come down to their level much as they are now waiting for other requirements to be abolished. Those who work to improve are not the problem but those who will wait for everything to come to them will be the problem and will become more and more evident as time goes by.

Ok, I think with this post the thread has successfully been hijacked and now return you to your normally scheduled program (yes, I borrowed a line from AI4EP, thanks Robert.) #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Oh, you mean the Novice ticket? #We already had that. #The ARRL fixed something that wasn't broken when they pressed to do away with the Novice. #That WAS the meaningful entry-level license and it did mean something because you had to work for it. #

The freebie mentality that I see forming future ranks scares me. # I'm afraid it will lead to an easy come easy go sentiment among the new comers. #Since no one had to work very hard for the privilege they probably won't hold it in very high regard when the FCC comes calling to re-allocate spectrum, certainly not worth fighting for. # #

Even if they do decide to fight, they won't find any help from the press or public either because instead of being radio experts, they will be viewed as nothing more than hopped up CBers playing radio. #Without the strong technical expertise among the ranks and some cutting edge experimentation how will they justify retention of current allocations or, new replacement spectrum.

The Novice license in its original form was a perfect stepping stone for developing technically proficient radio operators.

I don't see how this is a hijack since all of this is the result of ARRL policy. Who ever said they were perfect? Not me that's for sure.....

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (kc0w @ Dec. 18 2005,18:36)
For what? Other than voting for "section managers," what are you voting for?

Directors. The people who can make policy go this way or that
Thats got to be the best one of the bunch.
When exactly was the last time "The Directors" voted any other way than the way they are TOLD to vote by Sumner and Haynie?

Good luck proving it either way. The average member has NO CLUE how his particular division director voted on ANYTHING.

The members who start these "Rah Rah" ARRL threads simply because the ARRL is the only game in town remind me of a pack of Lemmings running for the cliff.

I encourage all memebers of the ARRL to let their memberships slide as I have till we see how this bandwidth sellout to WinLink/PactorIII/SCS plays out and we get some wide and deep institutional change at the ARRL.

[w5ljm]

Of course, this isn't the first time this topic has appeared on the forum, but I'll respond again.
I haven't been a member of ARRL very long at all. I know they have pulled us through a few hard times and offer an OK magazine called QST, but doggone it, their dues are getting way out of hand. For those who've retired and receive a nice retirement compensation or those who were simply raised with a silver spoon and are wealthy because they got a chunk of some inheritance and can afford a new radio every week and still pay off that $300.000+ home. To them, enjoy your expensive lifetime membership.

I, and people like myself cannot afford these luxuries and still pay a $39.00/yr.(soon to go up again,I'm sure) membership to a place where the benefits are so few and far apart.
I had to pass along some of the QST collection because I ran outta room for them. Sad part is, I found nothing interesting enough in them to hold my attention and read very little outta each issue.

Next renewal, I think I'll pass.

[w8cbc]

I haven't been "in the ranks" very long so my observations won't carry a lot of weight. It doesn't stop me from making them of course. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I've decided I don't like the bandwidth proposal. The way it's worded leaves too many loop-holes for abuse.

I agree with their idea of keeping a Morse code requirement for Extra. It's the FCC that's pushing to do away with it altogether, not the ARRL.

I value the ARRL's resistance to commercial spectrum encroachment. I think we'd have lost a lot more of our V/U allocations than 220-222 were it not for their efforts.

I do NOT like the ARRL's pushing of Winlink. A proprietary, closed system does not belong in our spectrum. As someone else asked, where's the money trail lead? It wouldn't be to Redmond, Washington, would it?

So, I'm a member as I figure it's better to yell inside the room.

[k7unz]

Although I currently am a member, it's been an "on & off" thing over my 45 years in ham radio. #The only perks I see to it these days are QST and access to the equipment review archives. #And to be frank, even QST is less than what it used to be.

However, all that aside, to be referred to as a "slacker" for not supporting an organization that does nothing you feel it should, would in itself, keep me from joining it!

In fact sir, you can take credit for the fact that your insolent attitude will keep me from re-newing membership. #Thank You!

Jim/k7unz

[ky5u]

I am an ARRL member and agree that right now they are the only game in town. I also find their management style overbearing, cliquish, good 'ol boy, backroom style. In an era where organizations are opening the komono to the world, the league is still living in the 50s.

Part of the blame is my own. I did not try to oust my "rubber stamp" Director in the last election. He's one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet, but when Newington talks, his mouth moves. Frank, if you read this, I think you're a great guy. Hell, I'd have no issue with you being Godfather to one of my grandchildren. I love to talk to you with the AM guys and wish you the best but you're just one backbone away from being a saint in my book.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (K0PJG @ Dec. 19 2005,01:19)]Not me..........But, unless you are starting up another organization, what else is there.???
I still say there are 500K slackers out there just WHINING.

Join the ARRL and make the difference. VOTE!!!

Tom - KØPJG
Life Member ARRL
Tom,

I agree with your post, but I question your method. Don't use the words "slackers out there just WHINING" if you want any sort of positive responses from me.

73 de Bob AB8MA

PS. Going back to skacking. Is that a word? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w8znx]

I am a league member

funny how no matter what the league
does or does not do
there are ops all po at the league

for years the fone ops cryed that the league favored cw

now there are ops, complain that the league is anti cw

AM fone ops cryed about how the league favored ssb

I hear some ops complain about
the dumming down of amateur radio
were the same ones that howled
about the incentive license program
which was the last ditch shot by the league
to stop the dumming down of ham radio

when the Novice tic came along
there were howls by many ops
that the ham bands were going to be full of
half baked kid ops that were going to
wreck amateur radio

sometimes get the feeling that if the league
did exactly what some of the anti league
ops wanted
they would then change their minds
and be angry because the league did what they
wanted

dues heck the dues are not expensive

they are about the same as any othe org.
example

the American Kitefliers Association
dues are about the same
and they only publish only 4 magazines a year

American Rabbit Breeders Association dues
are the same

onedesign class asn dues
for my Thistle class race dinghy, 50 bucks a year
four magazines each year
mostly full of racing information
I don't even race, but I do support the class

Mac dit dit

[K0RGR]

I'm fairly certain that the ARRL Directors who pushed for Incentive licensing back in the 1960's have been dead for a long time now.

I imagine that those who fought against the establishment of a no-code license in the 80's are mostly gone, and those who supported it in 1991 are too.

I believe that the ones who are there now are doing their best to deal with what we have now, and what we have now is not a healthy situation - the current No-Code Tech license is a lousy entry license if we keep the code test in place for General. My director has listened to my input on the proposals currently before the FCC. The League's proposals, in fact, sound a lot like the letters I wrote, so if you want to blame somebody, blame me, I guess. They got a few things, like WINLINK, screwed up, but otherwise, they're not far off base.

The League has done a good job on the BPL front, so far, with extremely limited resources, and they're still working on that one.

I find that QST is better now than it's been in years. There are more construction articles than I have time to consider.
I've also read a number of other new League publications lately, and they are very good. The self-study courses are great, too. They are offering more services and opportunities for members than ever before.

Yeah, there are lots of places for improvement, but you can only do so much with what you have. I think I get my $39 worth and a lot more. There sure isn't any other group that gives me that much for my money! I also designate ARRL to receive part of my United Way contribution each year.

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Dec. 20 2005,11:33)]I'm fairly certain that the ARRL Directors who pushed for Incentive licensing back in the 1960's have been dead for a long time now.
most
but last heard, the man most blamed for
incentive licensing
John Huntoon ex W1LVQ now W1RW
is still alive and kicking

Mac dit dit

[NY7Q]

I would rather have "no game" than have the ARRL game.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (NY7Q @ Dec. 21 2005,10:32)]I would rather have "no game" #than have the ARRL game.
OK 7Q, I'll disagree with you on that point. I don't care for a lot of the ARRL's policies. On the other hand I do like the fact that they maintain a presence in Washington and lobby Congress and the FCC to keep what radio spectrum we have out of the hands of corporations.

If there were no game as you put it, there wouldn't be anyone with the monetary clout or legal expertise to do that. It is for that reason, and that reason alone, that I maintain membership and contribute to the spectrum defense fund. Without the lobbying effort from ARRL there probably would not be any amateur radio today.

[K0RGR]

Yep, you're right DLG. You are not a slacker, a freeloader, a leech, or a parasite. Anybody who would imply such a thing is completely off base. You are simply a guy exercising his right to free speech by keeping his own money in his own pocket and not supporting an organization that he obviously believes does not do him any benefit at all.

And even though I give far more than my measly $39 a year, mostly because I can afford to, I don't have any problem with you, or any of the other thrifty people around here that do likewise.

[w0tdh]

There have been several meaningful comments made.

Mr Hainey Does read these threads. BTW

Several negative comments made that seem endless and almost Professional in nature. Something like a Pit Bull. But then they are handy at times to have around.

Negative comments to the author I expect. #I've even been chewed out by the Mr Hainey himself on these very threads. Yep, the Pres. himself had some disparaging words for me..................

I feel the ARRL is worth salvaging.

If it takes a referendum, so be it.

Only Voting Members could be part of that referendum however...............

By the way, the only New Rig I have ever owned was a DX-20 in 1957, right out of Benton Harbor, Mich.
Boy was/am I proud of that, as it is still here.
Rcvr was a borrowed BC-454 and a home made dipole.
The "Rocks" were also borrowed.

I bought a Life Membership on time, to save money in the long run, for when I was retired. That idea was from my Elmer urging me to do so. I was too young then to worry about such things.
The ARRL let you pay it out over a period of time.

73,

Tom - KØPJG

[w5ljm]

I'm only curious, #What was the cost of regular and life membership in, lets say 1959, the year I was born?

edit:
Also can I "pay out over a period of time" a life membership? #If so, it sure would make it easier on my family and cause less friction between us. #We go through WWIII every year that the $39.00 is due. I can imagine attempting to pay the cost of Life Membership all in one lump sum. I'd never hear the end of it! Oh boy!!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Should have been here when I started buying parts to put this old computer together.
I was licensed in 1995 and I was just finally able to buy my first used (new to me) IC-706 older model, last year.

[w5ljm]

I just saw where life membership ($975) can be paid quarterly over a 2-1/2 year period. I'll get my battle gear on and talk to the other half and see if that's feasible at this time.
Good bye everyone, nice knowing you all. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n9vr]

Funny I should see this post this morning, I just got the mail and opened my renewal form from the ARRL. After twenty years of continuos membership, this year I am declining to renew. I feel the $39 per year is getting out of hand. If they would offer a membership that was more inline like $15.00 a year and no QST I would be interested again. At some point one has to draw the line.

[w5ljm]

There ya go! An option of 1 year with QST- $39.00 #OR #1 year with no QST $24.00, since the cost of the magazine is $15.00 / yr.. #I usually look through the magazine, finding very little, if any, that interest me, close the book, throw it in the magazine pile and give it away to someone else later. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n9vr]

Your right Larry, just think how many of those non-member hams would be members in the ARRL if that was the case. $15.00 times 250,000 hams or so would be a nice income for the league, dont you agree? Plus it would make it affordable for the retired Amateurs in our ranks.

[w5ljm]

Agreed 150%

Or in some cases- Greed 150%

[w5ljm]

A comment or 2 was made about how the ARRL makes it's presence known in Washington and makes a stand when anything in ham radio is threatened.

To this, I'm appreciative from the depths of my soul. And when I win the Texas lottery of umteen something millions of dollar$$$$$$. I'll buy a lifetime membership. In fact, the lifetime memberships will be on the house for all amateurs wishing to have one, with or with out a QST magazine option. #Heck, I'll buy the whole ARRL out and rename it LJM's ARRL.

BUT (big but) right now it's too expensive.

Was I dramatic enough?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif