my fave local repeater is going QRT for good!!!!

[KC9GUZ]

My neigbor 2 miles down the road from me is shutting down his repeater and relinqushing the frequencys 147.960/360 on Dec 31st 2005. Its too bad too as this was my very first repeater that i talked on the very first time i got my ticket therefore, I had my first QSO on this repeater!!
He has said several factors made him decide to do this.

#1 Some people have been using the repeater for business.

#2 The repeater owner has had problems with power line noise that manifests between 136 and 160 Mhz. He still is fighting with the power co over this.

#3 The time issue.He is self employed and is frequently called out on jobs that are away from hime. if for some reason his machine (repeater) quits there is no one to fix the problem. Also when he is away he has no time to monitor the repeater to take notice of any illegal activity or problems that would arise with the "machine".

#4 We have recently had an influx of new hams that are using the repeater as a sort of quazi CB band. They use CB related lingo and words like "dude", "man", "that sucks", "Rodge oh", "how bout' it so and so", "thats cool", "copy that" and so on. These guys cant get over the fact that they are no longer on the CB bands but are on ham freqs and they need to drop the chicken band talk and use ham terms and language!! Arr! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

#5 We have a TON of repeaters(some that are VERY good repeaters that sit unused pretty much most of the time) that pretty much overlap the NE corner of Indiana so he thinks one more gone will not hurt anything. In fact, there are a few that rival his by up to 50% in coverage that sit well, unused! So to have more than what is used in redundant.

I guess i cant blame the guy for doing what hes doing. he has a lot on his plate now as it is. There are a ton of other repeaters to use so thats no big deal.

[w4ass]

why dont u offer to help in the upkeep with the maint.of the repeter?. tell him ur willing to help fix problems with the repeter while he is away , unless u work the same hrrs. have or start a local repeter club where dues will help pay for upkeep of the repeter , can be aslittle as $20.00 a year which can include phone patch priv.
well if u need more ideas contact me
73s
bob
ki4ltg

[N8CPA]

Too bad. Although I rarely use them, repeaters are a valuable AR resource. But I can't blame the fellow if that kind of nonsense
is going on. I would not put up with it, either.

If he has made his wishes known about how the repeater is to be used, the offenders are in violation of the law if they persist in behavior he considers offensive. And offensive can be as simple as "I don't want that [talk, behavior, useage, etc.] associated with my call sign!" He can request that they not use the repeater, and Riley would back him up.

He is also correct that there has been a repeater glut over the last 20 years or so, that is now starting to attrite. As machines wear out, they're simply not being replaced.

[KD7NUW]

Hi Eric, I know what you mean about repeaters being used by chicken banders. Sorry to hear that the repeater is going down, maybe the owner could have the tone changed or a tone put on it and only those that pay something toward the upkeep of the machine would be allowed to havthe tone. They did that out in WA where i came from and it worked really well on a couple repeater.
I live about 75 miles SE of you and have heard these guys on the repeater. anyway take care

73's
Bob

[n5tjd]

Quote[/b] (KC9GUZ @ Dec. 13 2005,22:34)]They use CB related lingo and words like "dude", "man", "that sucks", "Rodge oh", "how bout' it so and so", "thats cool", "copy that"
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with "dude", "man", or "thats cool." I don't see how those are related to CB or are in bad taste.

Anyhow, sounds like he is shouldering the responsability by himself. If you really care for this repeater, you and others might try to offer to share the owner's burden. He still may or may not keep the repeater online, but either way he will appreciate the offer.

[WA2ZDY]

Yes, it sounds like this repeater is essentially surplus to the local needs on top of the stuff the owner doesn't like.

As others have said, he could restrict who uses the repeater. FCC will back him up as no ham is required to allow others to use his stuff. The same way nobody can require you to let me into your house to use your rig.

Maintenance of a repeater can be a major hassle. Often it's not practical to keep buying new and while maintaining the old is cheaper financially, the constant work level just gets old.

I was involved on the fringe of maintaining a local 2m repeater here for a short time. The machine was in an incredible location on a commercial tower. The coverage was mind boggling. But when the wealthy owner moved away (and what a great guy he is, he never wanted a dime towards the upkeep - a real ham's ham,) the finanaces became an issue and donations, while not solicited, were welcomed.

The site rent was $80/mo, which was not bad except that maintenance issues started to eat into the user lists and donations started to slow down. Eventually it got to where nobody was using it. It was decided to take the machine off the air.

The sad thing? Nobody seems to miss that machine now. There is still a 440 machine on the same tower and its use seems to be slacking off now too.

I don't know where all the no-code techs are but trust me, they'd be welcomed on this repeater. This is yet another machine owned by a (different) fairly well off ham who asks for nothing other than respectful use of his machine. I wonder how long it will be before he too tires of "wasting" his money on a repeater that IDs every ten minutes and does little else.

If this 440 machine goes dark, there will be no local coverage repeaters in this immediate area.

[AG3Y]

I have never understood the "Smokie and the Bandit" mentality when it comes to talking on ANY radio, CB or otherwise. I mean, good gosh, the movie is what, 30 years old now ? It's time to grow up and move on in life!

As far as losing a repeater, perhaps now is a great time for you to get that HF stuff and get on the DX bands ! I see from reading your Bio that you have your written General. CONGRATS ! Have you passed your code test yet ? Get to it, and get on the low bands. You will soon forget the repeater world and all the "good-buddys" that have migrated to them!

73 and Merry Christmas! Jim

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Dec. 14 2005,08:50)]I don't know where all the no-code techs are but trust me, they'd be welcomed on this repeater.
This is the greatest question of the age. Trying to answer it is like trying to find dark matter in the universe.

Though we see quite a bit of NCT commentary here on QRZ (and other internet forums), there is really very little evidence that the large numbers of licenses now in the FCC database are active in any substantive way.

Should 05-235 hit the streets as a R&O it may shed some light on the issue, and the actual effect right now is anybody's guess. The "explosion" expected on HF may prove to be a fart in a windstorm.

[KC9GUZ]

Ki4ltg.
Id love to help him out on the maintenance but its beyond my scope of technical ability and time. The owner told me he has had ONLY ONE local ham that has offered him monetary help in maintaining the repeater! I myself have offered him $$$ but he has politely refused.

N8CPA
I have told him that he needs to jot down the offending callsigns of the ones that are doing illegal activity on the repeater and turn them in and suggest they dont ultilise the machine, but unfortunately, he cant be by the repeater 24/7. We dont have an OO here in our area anymore that will monitor the freqs to help out in netting rule violators.

AG3Y.
I dont know the mentality of people that think because they have a mike, any mike in their hands the need to talk like an idiot chicken bander. Funny thing is ive even noticed people talk like that on FRS radios and even 2 way buinsess band radios! I dont get it! As for the passing of the Gen written yes thats out of the way but i still need to get the code. Ive been studying up until recently when me and my fiance decided to move to a bigger place (with a yard that can hold some pretty large antenna arrays!), and to compound that she had to go in for surgery. That cut my study time to almost nothing. Im sure ill get back to it, but as of now its not a top prioity.

W3MIV
IMHO the coming R&O wont be like people say it will be. I dont think it will turn the HF freqs into a super sized CB band like everyone moans and groans about. I know quite a few NCT's that have no interest in getting on HF. And i also know several Extras and Generals that dont use HF in one way or another.

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Dec. 14 2005,03:58)]Too bad. Although I rarely use them, repeaters are a valuable AR resource. But I can't blame the fellow if that kind of nonsense
is going on. I would not put up with it, either.

If he has made his wishes known about how the repeater is to be used, the offenders are in violation of the law if they persist in behavior he considers offensive. And offensive can be as simple as "I don't want that [talk, behavior, useage, etc.] associated with my call sign!" He can request that they not use the repeater, and Riley would back him up.

He is also correct that there has been a repeater glut over the last 20 years or so, that is now starting to attrite. As machines wear out, they're simply not being replaced.
Like CPA I rarely use any repeaters at all, but do find I need to monitor one UHF one now and then, as I am DEC and that is the one we use. Fortunately, it is quiet 95 percent of the time, so doesn't lock up my scanning radio on nonsense chatter.

I hear less and less of the CB lingo around here. I'm not sure why, but I can suppose the ones who got their "Super CB Ham Tickets" in the mid and late 90s, have found ham radio was just not like the old shooting skip band, and, like Elvis, they have left the building. For a while we were badly l"10-9'ed" and "10-20'ed" around here but I very seldom hear a 10-code or a "got yur ears on?" anymore.

We also had a problem with business. At least two companies I monitored were using, several years ago now, one of the Albuquerque repeaters to dispatch construction supplies, or to support a computer business. That activity disappeared some years ago, and to my knowledge has not returned. But then, I don't monitor, so hard to say. I really should, just to find out what the repeater world is doing today, so I could comment intelligently.

But to your repeater. Well, naturally, it would appear to me your first option is to simply join one of the other "tons of repeaters" around there, even if it means club dues. You don't have to go to club meetings. Just pay the dues, get the tones, and use the machine. If you pay to support it, you will be a welcomed member.

Repeaters are an expensive proposition. And over the years we learned that the vast majority of them did not meet the rules regarding control operator monitoring. All kinds of things went on and no one cared. I felt if there was no control operator monitoring, the machine should be OFF. But that was not how it happened. Certainly if I were trustee of a repeater, and there were periods of the day when no one could monitor for legality, I would shut the darned thing down during those times.

As to the language, sure the CB lingo makes most of us long time hams rather sick. It is a sign of what has happened, and continues to happen, to ham radio, in its blending with something as stupid as CB radio. However, the words "dude," "kewl" etc., are not CB, but fad words, just as we had some, too. I don't recall them. Seems one was "groovy" or "cool" (Prounced the real way, instead of in three syllables.) It sounds immature, like ditty-bopper pre-teens, but it isn't illegal and it isn't CB. I wouldn't be able to listen to it, or talk to someone using that fad language, but I wouldn't shut a repeater down because of it. If CB lingo showed up, I'd have to drop the guy a written note (no on-air reprimands, except for extreme rules violations) and ask him to learn to be a ham or not use my machine.

Your friend, though, faces a combination of problems, and certainly, unless he is wealthy, money is a major factor. That is true of any repeater.

Find another one. Join a new group. Get your HF ticket. Branch out. Let that dog go lie down.

Good luck!

Ed

[wa4ilh]

Hi Eric, I also have a hard time accepting some of the CB language on the bands, mostly VHF. Yea, ... I know, ... I'm a Geezer... almost 60 years old and licensed for almost 40 of those...... still, it's hard. I don't have a personal.... My name is Tom , OM ! and I don't have a "twenty" I wish I did but the last time I looked, I only had a five and two ones. Tom WA4ILH

[W0LPQ]

Tom, ILH ... agree, but you got me beat ... only a five..! To me and many others, the phrase "personal" or "First Personal" is really a turn off.

Bill, W0LPQ
Almost 40 years with this FCC issued call sign.

[WA2ZDY]

Why golly gee, you old guys have no sense of humour, ten four? My personal is so personal I can't tell you what it is but we'll catch you on the flipper flopper, over over rover? (And please, no comments about Jimmy taking over.)

[wa4ilh]

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Dec. 14 2005,12:05)]over over rover?
My all time favorite (NOT) is "kick-er-back" Tom WA4ILH

[W0LPQ]

Tom, ILH, the first time I heard that was Okinawa in 1962 on our local 10M SSB group ...! People wondered where he got it ...!

Chris you almost owe me a new laptop...! Diet Pepsi went all over but just missed the keyboard..! Olde indeed ... you just got no respect ... for us older than you people ... sounds like Ray Stevens..!

Bill, W0LPQ

[WA2ZDY]

Now Bill, you and I have discussed this on the phone: I am doing my very best to get old too. Someone seemed to have other plans but I beat 'em and here I am, getting older every day.

Over over rover?

[KC9ECI]

I hope I never get as old and uptight as some of you all. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W0LPQ]

You all ... aka ya'll!

I fail to see where anyone is uptight..!

Just stating the differences between good ops and those from somewhere else.

Yes Chris we have discussed it. Glad you are doing ok thus far. Hang in there..! Think you are sounding just fine ... for your age.!

Bill, W0LPQ

[wa9cwx]

I don't know if I am more depressed or pissed at the way my hobby has turned out.
I can remember VERY well having genuine pride in telling someone I was a ham, then explaining what hams did, and why.

That is no longer the case.

Our local repeater reflects the same level of intelligence over the last few years as reported here.

"Uptight" is in the eye of the beholder.

WORK for something, invest your energy, love, and hopes in it.
Then watch it be devalued, overrun by self important, critical incompetents with an attitude, and see if, perhaps, you fit the definition of "uptight".

Like the Vandals invading Rome, smashing thousands of hand carved, painstakingly placed miniture tiles, just to see them fly apart.

THAT is what I think of when I hear CB lingo on the ham bands.

If "uptight" = pissed and depressed, then so be it.

[KC9GUZ]

Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ Dec. 14 2005,10:28)]Quote[/b] (KC9GUZ @ Dec. 14 2005,04:05)]N8CPA
I have told him that he needs to jot down the offending callsigns of the ones that are doing illegal activity on the repeater and turn them in and suggest they dont ultilise the machine, but unfortunately, he cant be by the repeater 24/7. We dont have an OO here in our area anymore that will monitor the freqs to help out in netting rule violators.
Why tell an over burdened repeater owner to jot down violator's callsigns? If you value this system you could just as easily monitor and either jot down or record the problems. This is known as self policing, seems to me I heard of this as being part of what AR operators do. We help to keep our freqs and bands clean, not we recommend the repeater owner does all the work. For times when you can't be monitoring there are very simple VOX circuits that can be hooked to a tape recorder, some recorders have them built in. They actually work quite well to record traffic and then shutdown again. There are times you will miss the first word or two but this will leave the majority of the conversation to be recorded.

In short, instead of piling more on the repeater owner, draw up a plan where you and others can help him. It seems that the bulk of his problem is people using his equipment to violate acceptable operating practice. Get involved, get others involved. If you want to save this system you will need to be proactive instead of sitting in your easy chair suggesting the owner do the work.

Draw up a plan of action including a list of others you have solicited that are willing to help. Detail what times each can donate their time (even an hour each day or week) to monitor for violations. Draw out a standard form for each to use to ensure all proper information is included. At a set interval collect all reporting sheets from each participant and use a blank to bring all information together on one form. Present the forms to the repeater owner with the summary on top. Basically, you have a guy who has willingly given of his equipment and time but seems to be ready to close it down due to other's misuse. Help him stop the misuse, find others who can help with this and with even simple repair or tuning up of the repeater from time to time. This may be beyond your technical abilities today but if you make yourself available when others are working on the system you will learn and in time your technical abilities will be beyond that needed.

In a way your asking the repeater owner to document misuse and you not being willing to do the same to help him out leans toward the "gimme" crowd. If you really want it, get out there and take it.
Who said anything about the gimmie crowd??

[N8CPA]

I think he meant the people who see the repeater as a kind of free utility--which frequently happens. They don't see the cash and effort that goes into maintaining a system, and they only contribute their golden presence to the operation of the system, and couldn't open their wallets with a crowbar. Yet, they are among the first to complain when a machine goes silent. The attitude is something like, "It's there, so you owe it to me and always will."

[KC5SAS]

Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ Dec. 14 2005,10:28)]For times when you can't be monitoring there are very simple VOX circuits that can be hooked to a tape recorder, some recorders have them built in. They actually work quite well to record traffic and then shutdown again. There are times you will miss the first word or two but this will leave the majority of the conversation to be recorded.
The VOX tape recorder is one way to go but let me offer another route. There are several programs available, some free, which will do the same thing but replaces the tape recorder with your computer.
For instance, I use a program called Scanner Recorder. Developed by a radio hobbiest named Dave Jacobs it can be downloaded from http://www.davee.com/scanrec/ . You don't need a lot of fancy equiptment either. Simply use a mono speaker cord between your receivers speaker jack, a scanner or your VHF/UHF radio will do fine, and the "Line In" plug on your home computer.
When you are ready to record you simply bring up Scanner Recorder, create a file name for the audio you are going to record and start it recording. Not only will it recode a wave file of the audio but in a separate Notebook file it records the Date, Time, Duration and Relative Time of each transmission recorded. Since it acts like a VOX recorder you can leave it recording for as long as you want but it will only store audio when something breaks squelch.
So, for example, if I record 24 hours of a particular frequency, say my local Fire Department dispatch frequency, when I play back the audio I will only hear the 20 or 30 minutes of audio traffic which happened during that 24 hour time period. By looking at the Notebook text log as I listen to the audio I can see that a particular call occured at a certain time. What may only sound like a couple of minutes of traffic actually took place over many minutes or hours.
Using this Scanner Recorder program you can park a cheap VHF/UHF scanner on your repeater output freq and record everything that takes place. The log allows you to see exactily how much use your repeater is really getting. If there are any abuses you have the offender recorded in a handy digital file that you can attach to an Email to that person when you warn him to stop violating your repeaters code of conduct. Can you say BUSTED? I bet you can. ;)
Anyway, give it a try and see how you like it.

Steve
RACES Officer- Iberville Parish, Louisiana

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]I think he meant the people who see the repeater as a kind of free utility--which frequently happens. #They don't see the cash and effort that goes into maintaining a system, and they only contribute their golden presence to the operation of the system, and couldn't open their wallets with a crowbar. #Yet, they are among the first to complain when a machine goes silent. #The attitude is something like, "It's there, so you owe it to me and always will."

And people like that need to be told to sit down and shut up. Doesn't happen nearly enough. We had a couple of guys like that on the local pair that seemed to notice and log EVERY little hiccup in the system. When it came time to pony up time or cash to fix the problem, guess who was missing?

"That's what I pay dues for". Lemme tell ya spanky your piddly $5/10/15 per yr doesn't come close to covering the time and resources it would take to have a commercial comapny come take care of the repeater, on call.

Some people are just ingrates and need to be called on it.

[K6BBC]

Repeaters ruined ham radio. One less is no loss.

K6BBC

[ne3r]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Dec. 15 2005,11:07)]Repeaters ruined ham radio. One less is no loss.

K6BBC
Absolutely not! Repeaters didn’t ruin ham radio, just some (not all) hams that use them.

There are no problems with my local repeater, all of the operators abide by the rules, including general operating courtesy. The repeater, its backups, and links are always serving the community, through RACES, ARES, or club events supporting the community.

The operators that get a ticket, buy a handheld, and thinks (or acts as if) that the repeater is everything there is to ham radio is what hurts ham radio.

Although in general, one less repeater is no loss, it would depend on which one, and where, there are a couple of lesser used repeaters in my area, one has been revived with echolink (there are some UK guys that just love it), but others are pretty much dead.

When it comes to this particular repeater, hopefully the pair can be put to good use.

73
Joe
N3PAQ

[K0RGR]

Actually, you may find that this is more of a blessing than a curse.

Once upon a time, there were a small number of hams in an area, and they got together and built a repeater. The repeater proved very popular, so popular, in fact, that the repeater was very busy. People yacked on it all the time. Soon, somebody decided that the town needed another repeater. When that repeater went up, the first repeater got much quieter. People no longer knew where to listen for their friends, because they could be on either of the two repeaters. The new repeater attracted a different crowd, so after a while, people stopped monitoring either repeater. Two meter activity dropped to almost zero.

Eventually, one of the repeaters died of old age and lack of use. Over the next few months, activity slowly picked up on the remaining machine until after a while, it was back to a fairly healthy level again.

I've seen this exact pattern here a couple of times. When we get down to two repeaters in town instead of three, 2 meter activity increases. When we go back up to three repeaters, activity drops off again. I think there just isn't enough ham population to support three repeaters, and when you spread them out over three machines, you kill the 2 meter activity in the area. I live in an area with an unusually high amateur population for a city of this size (300 hams, about 100K people) in the midwest. If we can't sustain 3 repeaters in town, I don't see how any other area of smaller or similar population can.

It's time to cut down some of the repeaters so the others can breath again.

[kb2vxa]

"#5 We have a TON of repeaters(some that are VERY good repeaters that sit unused pretty much most of the time) that pretty much overlap the NE corner of Indiana so he thinks one more gone will not hurt anything. In fact, there are a few that rival his by up to 50% in coverage that sit well, unused! So to have more than what is used in redundant."

Well, there you have it in a nut shell, in a repeater glut one more or less doesn't matter. Forget about the CB kiddies, give thanks to the radio gods you don't have the likes of Jack Gerritsen, Richard Burton or Glen Baxter to put up with.

[ka0gkt]

Owning an amateur repeater can be, and often is, a gigantic money pit. To that end, I have passed along a few dollars from time to time to a few local repeater owners. Yes, $5 is a piddling amount these days; however it is quite proportional to the amount of time I spend on repeaters...besides, that same $5 can buy a beer for a repeater owner who desperately needs one after a day of dealing with his repeater clientele.

Yes, I have 2-meter FM equipment, yes, I have used it while on the road, yes I bring it up the mountain to the intermod wonderland in the Santa Catalina Mountains when I pull a transmitter shift, but so far, I have come across only a few folks in Tucson who are willing to strike up a conversation with a “Stranger” (I’ve been here nearly six years). From the mountaintop, I have access to several distant machines where the local folks are much friendlier.

One less repeater in an area where most-if-not-all frequency pairs are filled is little or no loss, however I can understand separation anxiety from your favorite machine, so here’s a suggestion. Talk to the repeater owner and find out when he is going to pull-the-big-switch and set up a rag chew with him so that not only your first QSO will be on that machine, but the machine’s last QSO will include you. Talk the owner into manually IDing the repeater with a code practice oscillator something like “73 DE K9DOG/R SK” QSL the repeater owner and receive one in return. Frame it and hang it on your wall.

Work on getting onto HF, but find another local machine to monitor, or better yet, monitor .52 for local QSOs.

Good Luck ES
73 DE KAØGKT/7

--Steve

[w5ljm]

Quote[/b] (wa4ilh @ Dec. 14 2005,05:11)]Hi Eric, #I also have a hard time accepting some of the CB language on the bands, mostly VHF. #Yea, ... I know, ... I'm a Geezer... almost 60 years old and licensed for almost 40 of those...... #still, it's hard. #I don't have a personal.... My name is Tom , OM ! #and I don't have a "twenty" #I wish I did but the last time I looked, I only had a five and two ones. #Tom WA4ILH
Tom my favorite is the ol' CB term "handle"

Everytime I hear "My handle's (Dork)." Or "Handle here's ...", I think of them as a large teapot with steam coming out of each orifice!

I'm a little teapot. Short and stout.
Here is my HANDLE ... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif