Gerritsen Convicted in Jamming Case

[AA7BQ]

A US District Court jury has found Jack Gerritsen of Bell, California,
guilty on six counts that included transmitting without a license and
willful and malicious interference with radio transmissions. Gerritsen, 69,
who briefly held the amateur call sign KG6IRO, will face sentencing March 6,
according to the office of Debra W. Yang, US Attorney for the Central
District of California. He could receive up to 15 years in federal prison.

"The Federal Communication Commission investigated illegal radio
transmissions linked to Gerritsen for four years," said a statement from
Yang's office. "According to court documents filed in this case, the FCC
investigation revealed that Gerritsen transmitted his prerecorded messages,
as well as real-time harassment and profanity, for hours at a time, often
making it impossible for licensed radio operators to use the public
frequencies." A federal grand jury indicted Gerritsen last spring.

Turning down the offer of a public defender, Gerritsen served as his own
attorney. The government's case, presented by Assistant US Attorney Lamar
Baker, went to the jury December 8, and the jury deliberated for less than
an hour before returning its verdict December 9. US District Court Judge R.
Gary Klausner revoked Gerritsen's bond, and the defendant was taken into
custody following the verdict.

Gerritsen was found guilty of interfering with a Military Affiliate Radio
System (MARS) communication last March and interfering with American Red
Cross communications last January--both misdemeanors--and with interfering
with US Coast Guard communications in October 2004, a felony. He also faced
three misdemeanor counts of transmitting without a license. Recordings of
radio transmissions attributed to Gerritsen were played for the jury.

Those familiar with this week's court proceedings said Gerritsen tended to
focus on freedom of speech issues and sometimes confused those on the stand.
Among those testifying at length on behalf of the government was FCC Senior
Agent Steven Pierce, who discussed his use of mobile direction-finding
equipment and techniques used to track the source of transmissions.

Just days before the trial began, the FCC affirmed a total of $42,000 in
additional fines it had levied on Gerritsen, releasing two $21,000
Forfeiture Orders (NOFs). In affirming the fines, the FCC rebuffed every
argument Gerritsen had offered in responding to each Notice of Apparent
Liability, including his insistent "freedom of speech" claim.

"His unlicensed operation on amateur frequencies is not protected by the US
Constitution as it is well established that the right to free speech does
not include the right to use radio facilities without a license," the FCC
said in a footnote in one of the NOFs. The federal court jury in California
apparently agreed.

In late November, Klausner denied Gerritsen's motion to dismiss the three
unlicensed transmitting counts, turning away Gerritsen's argument that the
FCC could not set aside his Amateur Radio license without a hearing.
Klausner declared that the effect of the FCC's 2001 set aside of KG6IRO "was
to treat the application as if it had never been granted." Since Gerritsen
never held an Amateur Radio license, he never had the right to a hearing,
the judge reasoned.

Last March, the FCC upheld a $10,000 fine against Gerritsen for interfering
with Amateur Radio communications. The government has yet to collect.

FBI agents, accompanied by FCC staff, arrested Gerritsen without incident
last May and seized his radio equipment. Released on $250,000 bond while
awaiting trial, Gerritsen remained in home detention, barred from possessing
any radio equipment.

Gerritsen's history of radio-related legal problems go back to 2000 when he
was convicted for intercepting, obstructing and/or interfering with
California Highway Patrol radio communications. In November 2001, the FCC's
Wireless Telecommunications Bureau issued, then quickly rescinded,
Gerritsen's Technician license, KG6IRO, because of his earlier conviction.
While transmitting on various Los Angeles-area repeaters, Gerritsen
continued to identify as KG6IRO, however.

Radio amateurs on the West Coast complained for months about the slow pace
of enforcement action in the Gerritsen case. Los Angeles-area repeater
owners had taken to shutting down their machines to avoid the nearly
constant barrage of malicious interference and lengthy political tirades
attributed to Gerritsen.

Material from The ARRL Letter may be republished or reproduced in whole or
in part in any form without additional permission. Credit must be given to
The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League.

[W9GRN]

Justice prevails! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N6BOA]

Yes, justice prevails, at least, in this case...

[AD6FR]

I hope they throw the book at him.

[w4mja]

Yes They need to throw the book at him. He would have fit right in on CB Radio.

[KC7JDS]

Once again, the old saying rings true...

"He who has himself for a client, has a fool for an attorney."

Not that I'm sure a real lawyer could have done any better.

B Woodman
kc7jds

[N2ACX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Y E S !

Well, he can try doing some jamming in prison, there won't be any charges filed there, just their form 'instant justice'

Great job by the FCC.....

73 Gary N2ACX

[K2WH]

Next up!

K1MAN - Are you listening. Better wise up fella.

K2WH

[W5TJZ]

Throw him in the Nuthouse and teach him to weave baskets for his keep.

[K7NPS]

I found KC8VWM's response interesting and appears to be consistant with some of the current thinking. Perhaps something like "I am not feeling well today so it is OK for me to kick the dog or perhaps the kids." "I forgot to take my meds this morning so I think I will go and place lives in jeporday by setting a few building fires." "My blood sugar levels are off so I think I will find that rotton neighbor that I have hated for so long and gun him down." Sorry Charlie! There is no excuse for behavior that our society has found to be unacceptible. In this case, if Garritsen will not comply, it is necessary to protect the general public from him. In prison, he can no longer harm the public and will get whatever medical help he may need. Regardless of his health, mental or physical, he is RESPONSIBLE for his actions. All too often we find people blaming every thing on earth for their own problems rather than facing responsibility.

[ae1x]

Well, finally justice is served. I wouldn't go as far as others to say anything nasty, but I will say that he should be evaluated for psychiatric health.

I just wish it would have happened more quickly. It's a shame that so many people were affected for so long before some real action was taken. I hope he gets the help he really needs and we find some compassion for this wayward soul.

Ken

[N2ACX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif K2WH
Next up!

Quote[/b] ]Next up!

K1MAN - Are you listening. Better wise up fella.

Uhoh....you did it now....hahahaha you may end up on 'MAN's".... "nurd List" like I managed somehow.

I was showing the wife how one can come up with alot just by googleing your call, and there it was, the nurd list.
Too funny..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

MAN's Nurd List (http://www.radio-forum.com/policy/K1MANs_list_of_ham_censors_by_call_sign_240692.htm l)
OOOOOOPS-----You Are There !!
73 Gary N2ACX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n8abd]

Another "Freedom of Speech and First Amendment Rights" idiot shot down. Hooray for Uncle Charlie and his minions.
I am reminded of a piece of music by Queen called "Another One Bites The Dust."
Hooray for the good guys, the wheels of justice turn slow and ponderously, but they do turn.
Now, if we could just get the idiot we have here in Cleveland, Ohio, who is doing the same damned thing as this idiot was doing.
Somehow, the phrase, "They never learn," is recalled here.
Hooray FCC and kudos to the enforcement officers who were responsible for removing this vermin from the our public amateur radio airwaves.

Guess who got the last laught this time?

[ky7f]

A couple of days ago, I was listening on 20m SSB. K1MAN was in qso with someone on 14.275. The FCC database said his license expired on "10-17-2005". If your license is expired past that date, you're not supposed to transmit, even if you're in the renewal process, right? Someone enlighten me on that if I'm wrong.

Back to the original post: This guy sounds similar to the "Rabbit Ears" cb-guy in FL a few years ago that got nailed very hard.

KY7F

[n4dsp]

test

[n4dsp]

KC8VWM you must be a teenager which explains your post. Persons like you always try to understand why a person like Gerritsen did the things he did. You think there must be some reasonable explanation. Well Charles things are not black and white. This guy is the biggest jerk and it is sad it took so long to finally convict this moron. He could have caused major communication problems during a life saving event which was the case of the sailboat incident. I do not care if the guy was 18 years old or 69 years of age. This guy deserves to be sent away for 15 years. This type of punishment needs to occur more often in this country and with less delay. Your argument is nil. Perhaps you can push the case for Charles Manson. Now there is one weirdo and wacky animal. Go try to understand him Charles. By the way, are you a teenager?

[wx5rp]

While the former KG6IRO may in fact need medical care, he must be held accountable for his actions. Perhaps one of the biggest problems in modern society is that we are not held accountable for our actions.

As for KG6IRO's apparent failure to pay his fines, I'm confident there will be a sizable lien against any of his property that will have to be settled upon his release from incarceration.

73 de WX5RP

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (ky7f @ Dec. 09 2005,17:38)]A couple of days ago, I was listening on 20m SSB. K1MAN was in qso with someone on 14.275. The FCC database said his license expired on "10-17-2005". If your license is expired past that date, you're not supposed to transmit, even if you're in the renewal process, right? Someone enlighten me on that if I'm wrong.

Back to the original post: This guy sounds similar to the "Rabbit Ears" cb-guy in FL a few years ago that got nailed very hard.

KY7F
According to FCC policy and procedure, a licensee can continue to operate while an application is 'pending.'

Several things yet need to happen. His NAL needs to revert to a Forfeiture Order. It has not. If it is (or had been) finalized, then, there is something called the "Red Light Rule" that they've used to order a licensee off the air until the Forfeiture is paid.

He will likely be noticed to appear for a hearing on his renewal application in Washington.

So, until he dons cap and Toyota and jaunters down to DC, he'll still be operating.......

Lee

[ky7f]

w6em - Thanks, Lee! Makes sense.

[w6em]

So, Gerritsen gets two misdemeanors and one felony.
The felony for the CG Auxiliary interference while a vessel was in distress.

Interesting.

Why wasn't he charged with another felony: Malicious interference to/with a federal telecommunications system? #He interfered with a MARS exercise. #MARS is a federal communications system, not amateur radio.

So, it should have been two felonies and two misdemeanors.

In any case, the guy wanted to do himself in.

Ever heard of "suicide by cop?" #Where a person commits a crime, usually with a weapon, then purposefully gets the cops to shoot (and kill) him? #Happens quite often.

I would be willing to bet that Gerritsen is broke, unemployable, and probably hungry. #Maybe cold at times, too.

Although charities can take away the hunger, and usually provide warm clothing, maybe the thought of being housed in a correctional institution and getting 3 meals, clothing, a hot shower, and the basic necessities for a few years appealed to him. #And, he's no spring chicken. #I would guess that he had no close family either.

At least he knows where and when he'll get his next meal.

Lee
W6EM

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 10 2005,11:42)]Dragging your heels for 4 years on this matter is hardly a cause for celebration. He is also getting away with out paying his fines.

The more I read about the Mr. Gerritsen's case and his actions, the more I am convinced that he has a cognitive dysfunction that may be related to his actions.

I am not validating his actions or what he did, I just don't think we are hearing the whole story here.

For example, why would any normal person randomly pick up a microphone and #suddenly start spewing profanity for hours at a time for no known reason? #

Secondly, why did he keep repeating these actions long after his first offense?

Did he in fact turn down a public defender or did he just not understand the judicial process at the time?

Did he have any cognitive control of his actions? There seems to be an established pattern here.

I have observed diabetics that display a similar "out of control" actions when they fail to take their medications. Is he Diabetic?

The more I think about his actions the more I am thinking he is a 69 year old man probably suffering from a medical dysfunction, yet they want to throw him in a federal prison for 15 years?

This sends the wrong message.

Again, I am not validating any of his actions but I can't help but wonder if there is an underlying issue we aren't hearing about.

Food for thought.
Ah yes another defender of Mr Gerritsen who feels Mr. Gerritsen is the poor victim.
Why is it so hard for you to accept the fact that he may just plain be guilty? #Is that such a far fetched idea to grasp? #Once again excuses prevail as to why Mr. Gerritsen is SO misunderstood and should be given yet ANOTHER chance. #Its mental, the weather, the dog, the meds, the moon, and on and on the excuses go. #
Since you are such a devine judge of human character here, what would you do? #Tell him he did a naughty thing and let it be at that? #Where do you draw a line and start to have a line of responsibility drawn? #Where would you draw a line here in this case and say enough is enough? #If a person was to die due to interference what would you say to the family of the victim?
Perhaps it is time that people learn that responsibility needs to be taken for ones actions.

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 10 2005,16:34)]Quote[/b] (n3drk @ Dec. 10 2005,14:51)]KC8VWM you must be a teenager which explains your post. Persons like you always try to understand why a person like Gerritsen did the things he did. You think there must be some reasonable explanation. Well Charles things are not black and white. This guy is the biggest jerk and it is sad it took so long to finally convict this moron. He could have caused major communication problems during a life saving event which was the case of the sailboat incident. I do not care if the guy was 18 years old or 69 years of age. This guy deserves to be sent away for 15 years. This type of punishment needs to occur more often in this country and with less delay. Your argument is nil. Perhaps you can push the case for Charles Manson. Now there is one weirdo and wacky animal. Go try to understand him Charles. By the way, are you a teenager?
Please QSY your limited mentality to 27.185
Now if we feel responsibility needs to be taken for actions we are of CB limited mentality. Nice to know.

[AD6FR]

Just for the record, I have spoken with Gerritson and can tell you that he is not mentally handicapped in any way; his cognitive abilities are in tact. #His problem is that he never gave up on being a 60's anti-establishment hippie. #He despises authority no matter who it is and he is addicted to expressing his complaints despite the fact that few wish to hear them, therefore he found a captive audience on 2 meters and apparently Coast Guard frequencies. #The Southern California repeaters are back to normal and it is a whole lot more fun turning on the radio without hearing KG6IRO constantly playing his stupid tape recordings. #Lock him up and throw away the key, if they ever let him out he'll be right back on the air again.

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 10 2005,17:00)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 10 2005,16:49)]Ah yes another defender of Mr Gerritsen who feels Mr. Gerritsen is the poor victim.

Why is it so hard for you to accept the fact that he may just plain be guilty?
Why can you just accept the fact what I was saying should be taken at face value?

Why must you start reading into what I posed as something that clearly wasn't said?

I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent discussion group, not a free for all knockdown and dragout of KC8VWM?

Is there any intelligent life out there that cares to perhaps discuss my medical observations of Mr. Gerritsen and the facts at hand?

...I do have a medical background if that should help.
If one brings an unpopular view to the form don't expect a great deal of praise on that view. Most feel he was a problem on the air that is now gone and are glad for that.
One the medical condition, well I am sorry about that, but considering the lines of work I have done I have seen that used and abused too many times as an excuse as to why they are NEVER guilty and need favorable treatment. I do not share your excuses for Mr Gerritsen and now that I am not intelligent life to you this conversation is finished.

[AB9JV]

KC8VWM. Don't let those guys get you upset. #They like picking on Tech class hams.

Your thoughts on Gerritson's mental state are valid. #The guy is clearly a whacker. #Is he a criminal or just mentally ill? #Those two seem to go hand in hand sometimes. #The Jury found him to be guilty of criminal acts, and sent him to jail.

If some other body had found him to be insane, he would have been put away also.

Either way, he is off the air and out of the hair of the folks that he was bothering most.

Sure, the dude needs help, but he needs to be put somewhere where he can't be a danger to himself or others.

It is very possible, that he will be treated better in prison, than in a mental instution, where they jack crazy people around on a routine basis.

Not living in the area where this trouble occured, I can not realize the full impact of his jamming, but based on what I have read, he was a real troublemaker, with many whacky ideas and positions.

I believe, that if he was jamming you, on a regular basis, you would like to have him "go away", and would be right to think so.

I think that you would may not be so much concerened about his welfare, as be happy that he is gone.

Lenny

[kb2wye]

I see stupidity has no age limit... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KB2KAB]

You all have valid points. You all are still missing the big picture here, and that is, yes he has been found GUILTY! BUT WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT GOING TO BE? Lets see if it fits the crime. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[w1yw]

If u be jammin' u be chillin' in the cooler!

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Dec. 09 2005,21:28)]If u be jammin' u be chillin' in the cooler!
Chillin' in the cooler, eh Chip? #You must be doing a little of that yourself these past few days. #The chillin' part, that is. #Brrrrrrrr.

Maybe a fitting punishment for Gerritsen would be a little warmth for a few years. #Guantanamo could probably use a little clean up and maintenance work. #Send him down there. #He can talk free speech to all of the Afghan detainees while he swabs the joint down in 90 degree, 100 percent humidity weather.

Then, after he's done, take him to the main gate, and let him hike over to Havana. #Plenty of free speech opportunities there, between cigar rolls.

Lee

[N8NOE]

Guess The "System" worked this time?.. But how many Aren't they Getting?..

[WA2FTI]

We have had a similar problem on the K2RVW repeater in Columbia County, NY. The intruder was tracked using RDF, tape recorded and logged. While the transmissions were not profane, he did call "Mayday" quite often in addition to transmitting tones and incessant "kerchunking." The FCC was notified and the tape sent, but nothing ever happened. The problem for us was solved when the family moved to Florida. So, look out down there! Hope you can nail him!
Dave.

[K3RGG]

Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see him convicted. But it does make me wonder what is going on in his head. These are not the actions of a normal adult. Hopefully the FCC gets their money and the rest of us get our pound of flesh and the old guy fades away never to be heard on the air again. Do you think he knows code ?

[K5WW]

Quote[/b] (AD6FR @ Dec. 09 2005,11:28)]I hope they throw the book at him.
The book, ball, and chain. Not necessarily in that order. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K7LRB]

I was wondering when this would degenerate into a "code/no code" debate! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kc8ycz]

Ok regardless if he is mental or not, why would anyone do this and again like it was brought up before, will the punishment fit the crime? IMHO I dont care if he had mental problems or not. He is off the air and that's the way it should be. If he want's to commit the crime then he should be able to do the time. AGAIN IN MY OPINION!!!!!
You thought K1MAN was bad, look up K6HOG on shoutcast and have a listen! you'll be SHOCKED!!

[wc5cw]

I've followed this case for a number of years and clearly the man is mentally unbalanced...Couple that with a deep-seated prejudice against authority and a self-centered disregard for his fellow man and you have quite a recipe for self destruction...I hope he is confined to a correctional institution for a long time and that he gets the necessary professional attention and mental therapy to help him overcome his illness so that he never again has the interest or motivation to interfere with the radio communications of others.

As for others who are licensed to operate and, in defiance of good old common sense and courtesy to say nothing of FCC rules and regulations, are hell-bent on abusing the privilege of transmitting on the amateur bands, I hope that the wheels of FCC enforcement turn considerably faster than in the Gerritsen case...

[k2lck]

geez, but the wheels of justice do move slow.. that he belongs in a funny-farm is beyond question, too bad that it took so long, but maybe it is just as well.. "MAN" be warned, but meybe that type of animal is just looking fer the attention..
I know that ignoring these types on our local repeaters has worked around here, maybe some of the blame should go to the guys who haven't been smart enuff to ignore him...
In time these jokers have just gone away, sometimes (if we ignore him properly) after sending their transmitter in for "repair". Ed

[KC0USQ]

this guy sounds like he might have some big "problems"
he'd be a good cb'er

[KD8BIG]

One down and lots to go.
KD8BIG

[ZS6JDS]

Quote[/b] (aa7bq @ Dec. 10 2005,09:21)]A US District Court jury has found Jack Gerritsen of Bell, California,
guilty on six counts that included transmitting without a license and
willful and malicious interference with radio transmissions. Gerritsen, 69,
who briefly held the amateur call sign KG6IRO, will face sentencing March 6,
according to the office of Debra W. Yang, US Attorney for the Central
District of California. He could receive up to 15 years in federal prison.

"The Federal Communication Commission investigated illegal radio
transmissions linked to Gerritsen for four years," said a statement from
Yang's office. "According to court documents filed in this case, the FCC
investigation revealed that Gerritsen transmitted his prerecorded messages,
as well as real-time harassment and profanity, for hours at a time, often
making it impossible for licensed radio operators to use the public
frequencies." A federal grand jury indicted Gerritsen last spring.

Turning down the offer of a public defender, Gerritsen served as his own
attorney. The government's case, presented by Assistant US Attorney Lamar
Baker, went to the jury December 8, and the jury deliberated for less than
an hour before returning its verdict December 9. US District Court Judge R.
Gary Klausner revoked Gerritsen's bond, and the defendant was taken into
custody following the verdict.

Gerritsen was found guilty of interfering with a Military Affiliate Radio
System (MARS) communication last March and interfering with American Red
Cross communications last January--both misdemeanors--and with interfering
with US Coast Guard communications in October 2004, a felony. He also faced
three misdemeanor counts of transmitting without a license. Recordings of
radio transmissions attributed to Gerritsen were played for the jury.

Those familiar with this week's court proceedings said Gerritsen tended to
focus on freedom of speech issues and sometimes confused those on the stand.
Among those testifying at length on behalf of the government was FCC Senior
Agent Steven Pierce, who discussed his use of mobile direction-finding
equipment and techniques used to track the source of transmissions.

Just days before the trial began, the FCC affirmed a total of $42,000 in
additional fines it had levied on Gerritsen, releasing two $21,000
Forfeiture Orders (NOFs). In affirming the fines, the FCC rebuffed every
argument Gerritsen had offered in responding to each Notice of Apparent
Liability, including his insistent "freedom of speech" claim.

"His unlicensed operation on amateur frequencies is not protected by the US
Constitution as it is well established that the right to free speech does
not include the right to use radio facilities without a license," the FCC
said in a footnote in one of the NOFs. The federal court jury in California
apparently agreed.

In late November, Klausner denied Gerritsen's motion to dismiss the three
unlicensed transmitting counts, turning away Gerritsen's argument that the
FCC could not set aside his Amateur Radio license without a hearing.
Klausner declared that the effect of the FCC's 2001 set aside of KG6IRO "was
to treat the application as if it had never been granted." Since Gerritsen
never held an Amateur Radio license, he never had the right to a hearing,
the judge reasoned.

Last March, the FCC upheld a $10,000 fine against Gerritsen for interfering
with Amateur Radio communications. The government has yet to collect.

FBI agents, accompanied by FCC staff, arrested Gerritsen without incident
last May and seized his radio equipment. Released on $250,000 bond while
awaiting trial, Gerritsen remained in home detention, barred from possessing
any radio equipment.

Gerritsen's history of radio-related legal problems go back to 2000 when he
was convicted for intercepting, obstructing and/or interfering with
California Highway Patrol radio communications. In November 2001, the FCC's
Wireless Telecommunications Bureau issued, then quickly rescinded,
Gerritsen's Technician license, KG6IRO, because of his earlier conviction.
While transmitting on various Los Angeles-area repeaters, Gerritsen
continued to identify as KG6IRO, however.

Radio amateurs on the West Coast complained for months about the slow pace
of enforcement action in the Gerritsen case. Los Angeles-area repeater
owners had taken to shutting down their machines to avoid the nearly
constant barrage of malicious interference and lengthy political tirades
attributed to Gerritsen.

Material from The ARRL Letter may be republished or reproduced in whole or
in part in any form without additional permission. Credit must be given to
The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League.
If only we had the same kind of justice here... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Neither the FCC nor the gov't released the specific information as to what gov't satellite that the ex-kg6iro interfered with, or the frequency it operated on. They did make mention of MARS, Coast Guard, and amateur, but made only note about the satellite. I wonder how he got in it? A dish antenna & modified ham radio? What's so secret about the satellite if an ex-ham was able to easily access it? Was it a link to Area 51, the Pentagon, or perhaps even the White House? Makes me wonder...

--... # ...-- # # # .- # -... # ----. # .-.. # .-. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W9GRN]

Quote[/b] (N2ACX @ Dec. 10 2005,14:08)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #K2WH
Next up!

Quote[/b] ]Next up!

K1MAN - Are you listening. #Better wise up fella.

Uhoh....you did it now....hahahaha #you may #end up on 'MAN's".... "nurd List" like I managed somehow.

I was showing the wife how one can come up with alot just by googleing your call, and there it was, the nurd list.
Too funny..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

MAN's Nurd List (http://www.radio-forum.com/policy/K1MANs_list_of_ham_censors_by_call_sign_240692.htm l)
# #OOOOOOPS-----You Are There !!
73 Gary # N2ACX #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Made the "nurd list" too.Didn't do anything to him, but some how got on his bad side.Thought it was funny too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ai4me]

It almost sounds like a prestigious honor to end up on "MAN's" NURD list!

I'm glad to see they finally nabbed Jack-o, but it did take wayyy too long. I should think that his first conviction would have been enough probable cause to warrent the immediate action when it was determined he was causing interference again.

Perhaps someone should file a class action lawsuit on behalf of the Amateur Radio operators that were affected by his shenanigans. By repeatedly acting illegally, he denied the legal rights of others.

[W4CNG]

No parole in the Big House, you do all the time down to the last day. #He'll likely be gone forever. #Somehow he did make the $250,000 bond so there is money somewhere for the FCC Fines.

Good Riddance

[wa3hjj]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Great news.Hope he gets the max ! ! I am all for enforcement like this. This is not CB radio .Next K1MAN.Maybe we should put both of them in the same cell and send code to them til they go nuts.Man,great job.Only sorry it took so long.Everyone have a great holiday and my very best 73's.dit dit dit dah de dah(for all the hams who know code...) For those who don't ...bye-bye...

[n7wqy]

One wonders how far his " freedom of speech" defense will go once inside the walls of the greybar hilton. Clearly he has no buisness with any kind of radio. Im all for freedom of speech but with that comes responsibility and reprocussions some of which may be unpleasent. In short "You can do and say anything you like as long as you are prepared to pay the price" Just my 2 cents worth. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K1XS]

I'm number 2 on the Nurd list-quite an honor, IMHO. Not sure what offense I committed to deserve such notice. I wonder if he has certificates suitable for framing?

73,

Ken K1XS

[KD5ZER]

Quote[/b] (KC0USQ @ Dec. 11 2005,00:01)]this guy sounds like he might have some big "problems"
he'd be a good cb'er
we dont want him either. yall keep him!
73 rsn-206

[n6uso]

Charles and others, let me tell you a few things about Jack's Mental state. #First off, he has been in "PRO-PER" status for all of his court cases, both Federal and State. #He has a VERY LONG RAP SHEET, for tampering with a Jury, battery, vandalism and interfering with Police while performing their duties among many other violations. #He actions are/were willful and deliberate, not a "MEDICAL" condition.

To become "Pro-Per" you have to show a COMPETENT mental state, or you will not have that privilege.
As for the 4 years, the FCC has to investigate and take the case to the US ATTORNEY, before anything can be done. #That takes awhile. #Called Government RED TAPE.

Now to answer some of your questions,
Why would a person pick up a microphone and do the interference Jack was doing? #He believed he had a VALID license with the FCC and that for us to not allow him FREEDOM of Speech on the radio violated his rights. #When he was told that he had no license and that he had no rights to interfere with others, he got upset, hence his jamming and language. #By the way his license was only valid for 6 days prior to it being taken away in November 2002. #He had been unlicensed before that. His GMRS license was the same.
Did he turn down the public defender? #YES, he did, read above comment about Pro-per Status.
Did he have any cognitive control of his actions? #Yes, everything he did was intentional and damaging.
Is he Diabetic? Yes, I believe type 2 is his status, but I can not verify that right now, I would have to check my records, but it is irrelevant.
Why throw him in a federal prison for 15 years? #He deserves More, I guess if you lived here you would understand better. #He is looking at 11 years. Also, if he fails to pay his $52,000 in affirmed fines, the government will put a lean on his house, take their fines/fees and give Jack's family whatever is left.
Again, I am not validating any of his actions but I can't help but wonder if there is an underlying issue we aren't hearing about. #I believe you are not validated his actions, but I believe you should be informed before you think this action was not warranted.
Jack is on "DISABILITY" and doesn't work, and hasn't for awhile. #Your wonderful tax dollars have paid for him to buy his radios/amplifies/DVR recorders and have all the time in the world to cause havoc on a NORMAL society.

I hope this clears up a few things here.

As a local repeater owner here in LA that has been attack full force, it is good to see that we do get justice here, and can now enjoy our radios once again.

73,
Be Safe,
Deputy Burton Brink-N6USO
Los Angeles County Sheriff's Dept
Temple Station
626-285-7171
Owner/Trustee of the 145.440- 136.5 (Tone) Repeater Sunset Ridge, Southern California
www.qsl.net/n6uso

[KC0LUL]

Jack Gerritsen and Glen Baxter(K1MAN) both Needs a ham radio shoved up thier a**!

[AB8RU]

Quote[/b] (ky7f @ Dec. 10 2005,19:38)]A couple of days ago, I was listening on 20m SSB. K1MAN was in qso with someone on 14.275. The FCC database said his license expired on "10-17-2005". If your license is expired past that date, you're not supposed to transmit, even if you're in the renewal process, right? Someone enlighten me on that if I'm wrong.

Back to the original post: This guy sounds similar to the "Rabbit Ears" cb-guy in FL a few years ago that got nailed very hard.

KY7F
K1MAN probably decided to be the 1st. kid on the block to change his license to LIFETIME HAM OPERATOR LICENSE he figgures that he is saving taxpayer money for a license that saves paper as he probably sees it.

Just purely me own opinion. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[AB8RU]

And now my inflated 3 cents worth of useless opinion # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif # Jack Gerritsen well if he lives long enough to plant tulips & Dasies in the Federal Slammer he may get to retire out when hes about 80 something. He may get Coal in his dinky lil Xmas Stocking ! # Maybe when Glen Baxter gets convicted they may share the same cell if any one wants to send them a tin can on a string maybe a tin can with string network maybe a Wide Tin Can Network #WTCN #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # or better yet how bout a tin can repeater ? ! # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kc5bdk]

well at least its gone

[k6faf]

Good!
One down, one more to go!
Let's keep our house clean, they are looking at us!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[k1lwi]

yes throw the book at him that is good news http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
wendell
73

[wa4gch]

But he is just mis understood !http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[w5je]

This guy is probably a sociopath (psychopath) and they do know the difference between right and wrong. Prisons are full of them.
73 de W5JE [B]

[N2JBE]

I wonder if he will receive a suspended sentence due to prison overcrowding. Due to the non-violent nature of his crimes, it would not surprise me if he only goes to prison for a short time, or for no time at all.

[k2lck]

I'll say this again, because I do not believe anyone understood the significance of it..
If we ignore these jokers, they WILL go away... But we hafta ignore 'em completely, to the point that they are not sure whether or not their xmtr is working. I know we get a "feel good" when we give 'em a verbal shot, but the attention is what they are looking for. Withdraw the attention and they will go do their thing somewhere else..
It is important that no one give ANY indication that they have been heard, to the point that if their interferance is breaking up a QSO, those who leave the frequency do so with "I am destinated" or other valid excuse. Jamming with music must be ignored to the point that the repeater times out...
There are many other ways to ignore these guys, including shutting down the repeaters' input frequency and cross-patching from (say) 440, but the key to all of 'em is that they must have no way of knowing that they are getting attention..
The FCC is like a padlock, it keeps most of us at least close to the straight and narrow, but.......
Ed

[K2TFT]

Whatever happened to K1MAN ?....Just wondering...may have been brought up between here and the beginning but didn't want to read all the code/no code and other ineviatable childish b.s. to see.
Rich

[wa6itf]

Quote[/b] (k2lck @ Dec. 12 2005,07:27)]I'll say this again, because I do not believe anyone understood the significance of it..
If we ignore these jokers, they WILL go away... But we hafta ignore 'em completely, to the point that they are not sure whether or not their xmtr is working. I know we get a "feel good" when we give 'em a verbal shot, but the attention is what they are looking for. Withdraw the attention and they will go do their thing somewhere else..
It is important that no one give ANY indication that they have been heard, to the point that if their interferance is breaking up a QSO, those who leave the frequency do so with "I am destinated" or other valid excuse. Jamming with music must be ignored to the point that the repeater times out...
There are many other ways to ignore these guys, including shutting down the repeaters' input frequency and cross-patching from (say) 440, but the key to all of 'em is that they must have no way of knowing that they are getting attention..
The FCC is like a padlock, it keeps most of us at least close to the straight and narrow, but.......
Ed
While this is true in about 25% of the cases, it is no longer 100% true. Especially if the intruder is operating on a repeater.

There are some intruders who have developed a "cult-like following" of supporters who act as the ears of the interfereing station. These hams (yes hams) gauge reaction and provide feedback to the intruder so that the intruder knows that his signal is reaching out.

Eventually, such a situation reaches a level of intollerence to where government intervention is necessary to maintain stability in the affected community.

[ad5td]

Quote[/b] (N2ACX @ Dec. 10 2005,05:44)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
# # # # # Y E S !

Well, he can try doing some jamming in prison, there won't be any charges filed there, just their form 'instant justice'
#
# Great job by the FCC.....

73 Gary N2ACX
I believe that Jack is the one that will be "Jammed" in prison! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Couldn't have happened to a better candidate. Jerks like this give us all a bad name.

The fact that the FCC took four years to do this is bad enough.

Self policing my a**!

[k2lck]

we have about 500,000 or so apples in our barrel.. For so few of 'em to be screwballs is reallly remarkable...

[4S7RO]

When are they going to get VE3OGZ ? I hope the Canadians learn something from the FCC and nail that bloke. He has been doing what he does for over 10 years now. The guy once jammed me even when I was trying to assist a Yatchman (in distress) off Barbados.

For years, he claimed he owned 14.185. He came back after a lull and claimed 14.200 for himself! I understand he has now been pushed down to 14.113. Although he is less of a bother down there, the likes of him do not deserve to be allowed to transmit. Look up the DX Summit archives and you'll see what the world is saying about the guy, but Canada turns a blind eye/ear.

73 de Ron, 6Y5/4S7RO

[n7spy]

Quote[/b] (KC0LUL @ Dec. 11 2005,19:33)]Jack Gerritsen and Glen Baxter(K1MAN) both Needs a ham radio shoved up thier a**!

... and waste two perfectly good radios? # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (n7spy @ Dec. 12 2005,15:27)]Quote[/b] (KC0LUL @ Dec. 11 2005,19:33)]Jack Gerritsen and Glen Baxter(K1MAN) both Needs a ham radio shoved up thier a**!

... and waste two perfectly good radios? # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
That's how Gerritson plans on getting one into the big house, so he doesn't need help.

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (N2JBE @ Dec. 12 2005,07:05)]I wonder if he will receive a suspended sentence due to prison overcrowding. Due to the non-violent nature of his crimes, it would not surprise me if he only goes to prison for a short time, or for no time at all.
There will be an extra cell space in California at 12:01am tomorrow.

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 12 2005,17:33)]Quote[/b] (n6uso @ Dec. 11 2005,18:12)]Charles and others, let me tell you a few things about Jack's Mental state. #

<snip>

As a local repeater owner here in LA that has been attack full force, it is good to see that we do get justice here, and can now enjoy our radios once again.

73,
Be Safe,
Deputy Burton Brink-N6USO
Los Angeles County Sheriff's Dept
Temple Station
626-285-7171
Owner/Trustee of the 145.440- 136.5 (Tone) Repeater Sunset Ridge, Southern California
www.qsl.net/n6uso
Thanks for the info and your own perspective of things.

Some additional thoughts I had on the subject:

A mentally incompetent peron is usually described as a person that is not of sound mind.

The fact that your perception indicating #Mr. Gerritsen was acting of sound mind is objectionable and questionable.

These actions in which Gerritsen repeatedly demonstrated is in my opinion an abnormal behavior in which a person of sound mind would not have normally have engaged in.

A person that repeatedly interferes with police radio and other communication in a most deliberate, malicious or rebellious fashion, and a person with such a long criminal history is not in my judgement a person who is acting out of sound mind. This would be regardless of any personal political views they may hold about society.

These recurring actions might have been prevented much earlier if he was deemed as mentally incompetent by the state through a court order when the first offense had taken place.

The fact that his mental state wasn't addressed by the court or suggested by any state officials earlier in the game, meant that these deliberate actions continued to occur for an extended period of time disrupting communications to no avail.

Perhaps, in the future the FCC could adopt a mentally incompetent protocol as a mechanism of preventing the recurrence of such actions in similar circumstances?

So I suppose my question is, what are the current protocals in place by the FCC for dealing with such individuals who openly demonstrate similar cognitive disorders when operating transmitting equipment on world wide and public safety frequencies?

Obviously, we need to realize that anyone can get a ham license as there is no specific screening process that would have prevented this individual from getting on the air with a license in the first place.

What we have observed here as the final result of this lack of intervention by the state, is only achieved 4 years after the initial violation occured.

This is unacceptable.

I feel a psychiatric assessment as ordered by the court for his actions at the time when his first offense had taken place, may have prevented many of his actions from reoccuring.

"Be Safe"

73
Using that theory, I guess every criminal is mentaly ill.

I'm sorry, but I lived in S. Cal. for twenty years, and listened to that garbage.

Just a bunch of hostile and mean as "junkyard dog" SOB's.

There wasn't any mental illness that I heard, only a small group of anti-social folks that seemed to be mad at the world, and spent their time talking dirty, and making threats to each other.

Most of the behavior was childish at best, and I am sure most of you haven't heard the flushing of a toilet on your local repeater. As Burton said, you had to be there to know the full story. And it went beyond colorful words. Sick stuff that can't be repeated here.

Someone that goes into a motel and kills a family in cold blood has issues too , but there is a difference between mental illness, and just being a mean, self-serving SOB.

You can't define any action that normal people wouldn't do as mental illness. There are clinical definitions. You may define jamming police radios as mental illness, but I would define it as a crime commited by a anti-social SOB, that wants to cause harm to society, because they don't get their way.

Sorry, but your position sounds like the norm that I hear way too much. "Everyone is good, and if they do a bad thing, it isn't really their fault" "It's their mommy, or their 4th grade teacher made them stand in the corner, or their goldfish died when they for 5." "They are just sick and need help."

Some people really do have mental issues, but most are just criminals, that don't give a damn about you or me, and just want to have their way, no matter how badly it effects you or me. For those people we have small cubicles with metal bars.

73 - W6NJ

[KI4BNC]

Quote[/b] (N2ACX @ Dec. 10 2005,14:08)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #K2WH
Next up!

Quote[/b] ]Next up!

K1MAN - Are you listening. #Better wise up fella.

Uhoh....you did it now....hahahaha #you may #end up on 'MAN's".... "nurd List" like I managed somehow.

I was showing the wife how one can come up with alot just by googleing your call, and there it was, the nurd list.
Too funny..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

MAN's Nurd List (http://www.radio-forum.com/policy/K1MANs_list_of_ham_censors_by_call_sign_240692.htm l)
# #OOOOOOPS-----You Are There !!
73 Gary # N2ACX #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ROFLOL!!!
wx7b made the list and I did not!!!
now THAT is FUNNY squared to the 10th power!!!

[k5co]

His was typical no-coder behavior. (See, we can get it going anywhere)

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 12 2005,22:24)]Quote[/b] (W6NJ @ Dec. 12 2005,18:43)]You may define jamming police radios as mental illness, but I would define it as a crime commited by a anti-social SOB, that wants to cause harm to society, because they don't get their way.
So anti social behaviour exhibited by an individual that want's to cause harm to society is a normal behaviour and not a mental illness in your opinion?

...Interesting
I said it was criminal behavior, not normal behavior. #It could be an act commited by someone with mental illness, but the act alone certainly does not prove mental illness.

So anyone that commits any crime (mostly anti-social acts that harm society) is mentaly ill in your opinion?

...Interesting

And I guess we should turn all of the prisons into mental hospitals?

Using your method of defining mental illness, 90% of the world would be in a mental hospital. #Customs different then yours are not mental illnesses, and neither is bad or criminal behavior. #

Using the Garretson example, as you see it, would prove that the Founding Fathers of the USA had mental illness for resisting the British Empire's lawful society in the colonies. #If that wasn't anti-social what is. #Maybe we should give the USA back to the UK as our country was started by insane people.

I would suggest, that rather then trying to force your point on a bunch of hams on qrz, that you do a web search on crime and mental illness, and argue with the professionals on the subject. #You may even learn what the term "mental illness" actualy means and the different disorders involved. #You certainly are confused on the subject.

W6NJ

[AE7Q]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 10 2005,17:00)]...I do have a medical background if that should help.
Oh, brother!!! If you actually have some serious medical CREDENTIALS regarding sociological behaviour, please state them. Otherwise, the above doesn't tell us anything about what you know, but only what you think you know.

Jack Gerritsen is no more mentally ill than the millions of Americans who think that just because they live in a "free country", they can do whatever they please without regard to the rights of others. When someone has the temerity to try to stop them, they cry "Constitutional rights" (as Jack did).

Yes, Jack is delusional, but it's not a medical condition; it's simply the sociological (not medical) "self-delusion" that comes from believing nonsense for many years (ditto for K1MAN). The prisons are filled with such individuals, and rightly so.

[ky1v]

Quote[/b] (W6NJ @ Dec. 13 2005,00:51)]Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 12 2005,22:24)]Quote[/b] (W6NJ @ Dec. 12 2005,18:43)]You may define jamming police radios as mental illness, but I would define it as a crime commited by a anti-social SOB, that wants to cause harm to society, because they don't get their way.
So anti social behaviour exhibited by an individual that want's to cause harm to society is a normal behaviour and not a mental illness in your opinion?

...Interesting
I said it was criminal behavior, not normal behavior. #It could be an act commited by someone with mental illness, but the act alone certainly does not prove mental illness.

So anyone that commits any crime (mostly anti-social acts that harm society) is mentaly ill in your opinion?

...Interesting

And I guess we should turn all of the prisons into mental hospitals?

Using your method of defining mental illness, 90% of the world would be in a mental hospital. #Customs different then yours are not mental illnesses, and neither is bad or criminal behavior. #

Using the Garretson example, as you see it, would prove that the Founding Fathers of the USA had mental illness for resisting the British Empire's lawful society in the colonies. #If that wasn't anti-social what is. #Maybe we should give the USA back to the UK as our country was started by insane people.

I would suggest, that rather then trying to force your point on a bunch of hams on qrz, that you do a web search on crime and mental illness, and argue with the professionals on the subject. #You may even learn what the term "mental illness" actualy means and the different disorders involved. #You certainly are confused on the subject.

W6NJ
Someone asked Charles (KC8VWM), are you a teenager?

No, he's a Canadian. With the brain being frozen for a good portion of the year, it is no wonder Canadian's are more tolerant (liberal) than Americans. Just kidding Charles!

Seriously though, criminal behavior and mental illness should not be confused, and more and more people in our society have been brainwashed into interchanging the two disorders, one being a behavioral problem and the other being an actual brain dysfunction.

While many professionals might disagree with me, I do not believe ANY learned behaviors, even at the misfortune of abuse, should be classified as mental illnesses.

If my kid gets ticked off at me because he doesn't get his way, then commits an offense against his family, such as trashing something expensive or putting his fist through the wall, is that a behavioral (criminal) issue or a mental illness?

Charles' thinking would lead you to believe it is a mental illness, however, most of us would agree that a good whipping with a belt will cure his behavioral issue and the "apparent" mental illness goes away.

I agree with the majority here, punishment is in order. Not only does it "cure" the "illness" of the offender, it is an excellent deterrent to others that may be experiencing similar "mental illness"!

David ~ KY1V

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,00:12)]I agree with the majority here, punishment is in order. Not only does it "cure" the "illness" of the offender, it is an excellent deterrent to others that may be experiencing similar "mental illness"!

David ~ KY1V
One great thing I have found about the internet, is that I have had 100% success treating teenage mental illness in my house by unplugging the broadband connection to the patient's room.

Amazing how quick that mental illness disappears.

Don't know if the internet causes the bad behavior...Oh sorry "Mental Illness", but it goes away real quick when disconnected.

Great example of the difference, by the way.

73 - W6NJ

[ky1v]

Quote[/b] (W6NJ @ Dec. 13 2005,02:32)]Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,00:12)]I agree with the majority here, punishment is in order. Not only does it "cure" the "illness" of the offender, it is an excellent deterrent to others that may be experiencing similar "mental illness"!

David ~ KY1V
One great thing I have found about the internet, is that I have had 100% success treating teenage mental illness in my house by unplugging the broadband connection to the patient's room.

Amazing how quick that mental illness disappears.

Don't know if the internet causes the bad behavior...Oh sorry "Mental Illness", but it goes away real quick when disconnected.

Great example of the difference, by the way.

73 - W6NJ
That's quite interesting. My kids are small (3/5/8/11), however, I will keep that bit of information under my hat for when they are old enough to be turned loose on the Internet.

At the moment, my only issue is with the 8 year old's addiction to star wars and his emulation of its characters. He's had his star war materials (movies, games, toys) taken away no less than a half dozen times, but I always end up feeling guilty and giving it all back.

My brain tells me there's a reason why the stuff is rated PG, but the boy loves star wars and my "mental illness" causes me to return the materials even though I know better!

I guess it's like your broadband, just keep taking it away long enough to cure the mental illness then give it back!

David ~ KY1V

[nd3r]

As to all the posts here about Mr.Gerritsen being mentally ill and not responsible for his actions, compare that with a drunk. I have seen alot of people in my day do some really stupid stuff and then I would ask them about it the next day and they would say, "O, I was just drunk and did'nt know what I was doing." Well, I will say that more than once I told them drunk or not ya goofball, you're still responsible for your actions! Always seemed to provoke a stupid look. Maybe that's why you got your butt kicked last night. You ran your mouth but figured that dude would just shrug you off as "being drunk and not knowing what he's doing." Tough way to learn a lesson! Pay up Jack!

[k0cmh]

It has been kind of brushed upon previously, but the bottom line is that we have a long history of dealing with criminal offenses that were comittted by persons medically or mentally not responsible. Our laws (both federal and verious states) basically says that it doesn't matter. The behavior will be controlled so as not to expose society to it again. Some states call it "criminally insane". But the bottom line is that even if a person is not responsible for the criminal actions, society can and will be protected against them. The person either goes to prison or to a controlled mental institution. If in the mental institution, they are not (supposed to) be released until there is assurance that the behavior will not happen again. SO . . . it was clearly evident that this character was not going to change his behavior, SO . . . the state has an obligation to remove him from his ability to cause such behavior.

[N8CPA]

Whatever happened to the previous sentence he was supposed to serve for jamming police freqs? #I read a 4 or 5 year old notice of sentencing on ARRL.org, but no follow up until this series of incidents. #Was he released on shock probation, or some similar miscarriage?

And who cares what purported mechanism causes him to do what he does? #Some people are just *holes. #It's not a disease. It's not a mental illness. It's not a medical condition. #They are just *holes--which is why the condition and the resulting behavior persist despite medical treatment. #

If your sanctimonious, superior medical intellect needs a gentle, medical sounding euphemism for it, call it SPD--Social Proctology Disorder. #Comfort yourself with the assurance that Gerritsen imposes the "suffering" of his SPD upon the radio community. #Those who are directly or indirectly affected by his campaign will continue to call it by its real name--i.e, He is an *HOLE! #

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[AE7Q]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,06:57)]... basic internet research on the subject ...
I don't think most people need to do basic research to tell the difference between genuine mental illness, and excuses for anti-social behaviour.

It reminds me of when alcoholism was defined as an "illness". It was an illness because it was treatable, and not because it was an excuse. Nevertheless, there was a brief period where it WAS accepted as an excuse by many, until MADD came along.

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,06:57)]It's apparent by many of the comments posted that many individuals are not aware of the definition which constitutes a mental illness.

It's really not my intention to provide a clinical education as it relates to any epidemiological factors on this subject at this time.

You can however find out more information from researching publications such as the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), as it is the most widely accepted by the clinical community.

Perhaps this in combination with some basic internet research on the subject may assist you and yield some additional clarity and insight for those that are demonstratively uneducated or uninformed.

Good luck.
Maybe you can fly out to California and go to the sentencing phase. #The judge may let you take Jack home with you. Then you can use you superior knowledge to rehabilitate poor Jack.

Greatness starts by saving that first "poor soul".

W6NJ

[AE7Q]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Dec. 13 2005,09:18)]Whatever happened to the previous sentence he was supposed to serve for jamming police freqs? I read a 4 or 5 year old notice of sentencing on ARRL.org, but no follow up until this series of incidents.
He was let out early due to jail overcrowding.

[N5VAQ]

They got Gerritsen- now let's see them go after K1MAN with the same determined effort. One down, one to go! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ky1v]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,08:57)]It's apparent by many of the comments posted that many individuals are not aware of the definition which constitutes a mental illness.

It's really not my intention to provide a clinical education as it relates to any epidemiological factors on this subject at this time.

You can however find out more information from researching publications such as the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), as it is the most widely accepted by the clinical community.

Perhaps this in combination with some basic internet research on the subject may assist you and yield some additional clarity and insight for those that are demonstratively uneducated or uninformed.

Good luck.
Charles,

If I'm not mistaken your medical background is that of an EMT or perhaps a Paramedic.

Even though you may be intelligent, and you read a lot on the Internet, I hardly think you are qualified to make clinical diagnosis of a persons "mental illness"

In addition, despite what the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) says, mainstream America isn't buying into this theory that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions and be provided treatment for "mental illness".

This nonsense that a persons actions are because he is a "product of his environment" that caused him to develop a mental illness will never be accepted by mainstream society, at least not until someone develops a device that can be placed on the perpetrators' head so that he may be reconditioned and returned to society as a productive citizen.

Since you are so much smarter than the rest of us, perhaps you might consider spending your time inventing this device rather than trying to brainwash the rest of us into believing people should not be responsible for their actions because they have developed a mental illness.

David ~ KY1V

[ky1v]

Quote[/b] (AE7Q @ Dec. 13 2005,12:44)]Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,06:57)]... basic internet research on the subject ...
I don't think most people need to do basic research to tell the difference between genuine mental illness, and excuses for anti-social behaviour.

It reminds me of when alcoholism was defined as an "illness". #It was an illness because it was treatable, and not because it was an excuse. #Nevertheless, there was a brief period where it WAS accepted as an excuse by many, until MADD came along.
The notion that alcohol"ism" is a disease is another fallacy shoved down the throats of the American people.

Since when does the deliberate action of placing a bottle to ones own mouth to consume an intoxicating beverage constitute a disease or mental illness?

If the term mental illness can be interchanged with stupidity of the individual for allowing himself to be consumed by his own self destruction thereby causing pain and suffering for those that love and care about him, Lord help us all.

In my opinion, many of today's repeated criminal behavioral problems can be directly attributed to the practice of Psychology by liberals in our society. Today's Psychologists repeatedly tell the American public that it's not your fault. Your father abused your mother, your uncle molested you, you were raised in a single parent home, your mother was an alcoholic...it's not your fault!

Well, it's somebody's fault and at some point the kid is old enough to make his own decisions.

If it's the parents fault, let's start locking up all the parents and send the kids to military school!

Quite frankly, I think they should restore corporal punishment in the schools. It worked for years and no one died because of it!

David ~ KY1V

[KB2SEO]

...He could receive up to 15 years in federal prison...

So? Who could care if he has any "Condition" it still warrants he be put someplace where these morons can be removed from good people, healthy people or whatever you would like to call it.

The fact remains, in spite of the ACLU, liberals and any other unreasonable thinking group that if the creep is a threat to society- (and this toad is a threat)- remove him and isolate him

If more attitude towards removal was upheld, we would'nt have to see the collage of photographs of our innocent children on milk cartons. We would not se the endless parade from a dememnted Press Corps of people who are asked after their loved one is killed to decribe what they are feeling to some Stepford Wife like Bimbo holding a microphone. We would not allow so called lawmakers to scream from the roof tops treason towards our commander and chief yet lie and skirt the issues when it came to what really happend to the poor girl in his Oldsmobile.

WHO GIVES A RATS BUTT WHAT HIS PROBLEM IS! AND so what if he won't pay the fine? He'll rot in jail until he does!

At least that's what they do to Father's who are swamped under in child support payments and can't get any relief!

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,12:02)]Your turn.
You can have my turn, this is getting tiresome.

[kb7uxe]

darn bleeding harts.
irregardless of "why" he did it, it should not have done what he did, and his actions could have been prevented.

Darwins theory holds true. eveloution and delution of a species when the "strong and intellegent" help the "weak and dumb".
I beleive, if you kill someone intensionally, you die.
no getting off for good behaviour, no deals.
if 6 guys rob a bank and one of them kills someone durring that robery, all 6 should be put to death, even the guy waiting out front in the get away car. game over. no deals. no bleeding harts.

Gerritsen did what he did, and continued to do so after he was instructed not to do so. game over. he should not even be allowed to use a wired telephone.

God bless Texas and the express lane to the electric chair.

[AE7Q]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,12:02)][1.] I am only going to indicate that his repeated actions are not the actions demonstrated of a person of sound mind. Period. That is my clinical judgment on the matter and I am not debating it any further as it is not the primary topic of discussion.

[2.] What this is really about is the failure of early detection and intervention methods utilized for this apparent and ongoing behavioral issue demonstrated by Mr. Gerritsen to protect the public's interest.

[3.] For example, was any mentally incompetent avenue even explored by the legal department at the FCC in this particular instance? ... The question is did the court or the FCC effectively deal with this individual and did they explore every avenue (including the medical field) in their legal power to protect the public from harm caused by this public menace? ... It is my opinion that more could have been done to effectively protect the public from a preventative intervention perspective.
1. Unless you provide us with your medical credentials, your "clinical judgment on the matter" is so much BS. No wonder you don't want to debate it any further.

2. "Early intervention" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif What would you have society do, until he commits a crime? The courts found him mentally competent to be his own lawyer, and it's up to HIM, his lawyer, or his relatives to raise the issue of mental competency. We certainly don't want a society where anyone (especially you) that believes that another person has a behavioural problem, makes the second person a candidate to be "treated" for "mental illness".

3. That's not the FCC's job, nor should it be. The FCC was doing a poor enough job in getting him out of circulation as it was, without raising the specter of mental examination (which would have further prolonged the FCC in taking final action).

I'm reminded of the case years ago (I think in Ohio) where some guy was accused and then convicted of rape. The court-appointed psychologist examined him as part of the sentencing evaluation, and interpreted his denial of the rape as an indication that he was "hard core unrepentant" (or some such). So, his sentence was particularly harsh (long).

Of course, seven years later, the girl who made the accusation recanted. She had had unprotected sex with her boyfriend as a teenager and then thought she was pregnant. So, she made the rape claim, and when faced with a lineup, picked the guy at random. I think DNA analysis confirmed his innocence, and he was set free.

So, what was the most grievious part of this story to me? The whacko Ohio psychologist who testified as to the "mental state" of the accused. If I had my way, she would be BANNED FOR LIFE from being employed in ANY part of the medical/psychological field.

There is genuine mental illness, but the whackos out there (especially in Ohio) that try to interpret the mental state of others, is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[N8CPA]

Quote[/b] (AE7Q @ Dec. 13 2005,16:18)]Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,12:02)][1.] I am only going to indicate that his repeated actions are not the actions demonstrated of a person of sound mind. Period. That is my clinical judgment on the matter and I am not debating it any further as it is not the primary topic of discussion.

[2.] What this is really about is the failure of early detection and intervention methods utilized for this apparent and ongoing behavioral issue demonstrated by Mr. Gerritsen to protect the public's interest.

[3.] For example, was any mentally incompetent avenue even explored by the legal department at the FCC in this particular instance? ... The question is did the court or the FCC effectively deal with this individual and did they explore every avenue (including the medical field) in their legal power to protect the public from harm caused by this public menace? #... #It is my opinion that more could have been done to effectively protect the public from a preventative intervention perspective.
1. Unless you provide us with your medical credentials, your "clinical judgment on the matter" is so much BS. #No wonder you don't want to debate it any further.

2. "Early intervention" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif #What would you have society do, until he commits a crime? #The courts found him mentally competent to be his own lawyer, and it's up to HIM, his lawyer, or his relatives to raise the issue of mental competency. #We certainly don't want a society where anyone (especially you) that believes that another person has a behavioural problem, makes the second person a candidate to be "treated" for "mental illness".

3. That's not the FCC's job, nor should it be. #The FCC was doing a poor enough job in getting him out of circulation as it was, without raising the specter of mental examination (which would have further prolonged the FCC in taking final action).

I'm reminded of the case years ago (I think in Ohio) where some guy was accused and then convicted of rape. #The court-appointed psychologist examined him as part of the sentencing evaluation, and interpreted his denial of the rape as an indication that he was "hard core unrepentant" (or some such). #So, his sentence was particularly harsh (long).

Of course, seven years later, the girl who made the accusation recanted. #She had had unprotected sex with her boyfriend as a teenager and then thought she was pregnant. #So, she made the rape claim, and when faced with a lineup, picked the guy at random. #I think DNA analysis confirmed his innocence, and he was set free.

So, what was the most grievious part of this story to me? #The whacko Ohio psychologist who testified as to the "mental state" of the accused. #If I had my way, she would be BANNED FOR LIFE from being employed in ANY part of the medical/psychological field.

There is genuine mental illness, but the whackos out there (especially in Ohio) that try to interpret the mental state of others, is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I think you're confusing the Billy Milligan case with another high profile case. #In the Milligan case, which was in Ohio, he was exonerated because the jury fell for the explanation that it was only one of his 7 known personalities that perpetrated the series of rapes.

The other case was in Minnesota, I think. #The victim underwent a religious conversion, which compelled her to recant her testimony, even against damning medical evidence. #One theory was that the girl so enjoyed the profile of the case, that she became addicted to the spotlight. #So she reversed her testimony to get in the spotlight again. #I don't remember how the second trial turned out.

Those two cases were roughly the same time frame, a little less than 20 years ago.

[w5ljm]

I'm so happy, and excited!

Let's celebrate with a POLL!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kb2vxa]

Hi all,

"I am suggesting he receives medical intervention for his condition as a method of preventing any further violations from recurring in the future."

For all you bleeding heart ACLU Pinkos, he'll get his daily beef injection and with a bit of luck a lobotomy. For once justice prevails, something you're trying to abolish but you won't succeed in doing as long as the majority posess the common sense your recessive genes never passed on to you. Meanwhile you provide endless entertainment on 80M, NPR, Family Radio and Pacifica. May you grow up and be wise before your death at the hands of the deranged murderer you defend in the mistaken belief he's only misunderstood, a poor soul in need of counciling.

"Gee officer Krupkie, CRUB YOU!"
The Jets

[ky1v]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,14:29)]Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,11:02)]In addition, despite what the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) says, mainstream America isn't buying into this theory that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions and be provided treatment for "mental illness".

David ~ KY1V
Apparently David, you seem to have your own misinformed interpretation and perception of the facts.

Please entertain me and quote me anywhere I indicated that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.
Charles,

You may be able to fool some people, but I happen to see through your pretzel logic.

Perhaps you should look up the words inference, conjecture and supposition.

Because this forum is in writing, you are afforded the luxury of time to do research and carefully select your words. I seriously doubt you are that witty when engaging in direct dialog with another human being. Of course, if you had your HF license, we could find out quickly now, couldn’t we?

While I realize that you may only pose these questions to stimulate discussion amongst group members, your progressive ideas are not well received by main stream Americans.

After review of dozens of your badgering posts on eHam and QRZ.com and applying your own standards and theories relating to this subject, one may quite easily conclude that you are also inflicted with this strange phenomenon you so eloquently describe as mental illness.

I am quite surprised I didn’t see you on Fox News last night standing outside San Quentin holding a sign reading “Save Tookie”!

David ~ KY1V

[KI4BNC]

Quote[/b] (w5ljm @ Dec. 13 2005,14:48)]I'm so happy, and excited!

Let's celebrate with a POLL!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
SEE!?!?
SEE?!?!?
I wasn't the one that asked!
and I have been GOOD!!
kindasortaalittlebitmaybe...
and I have not asked for a poll in quite some time.
I DO second the motion.
well?

[AE7Q]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Dec. 13 2005,14:16)]I think you're confusing the Billy Milligan case with another high profile case.
Possibly. In the case that I remember, it wasn't Mr. Milligan. It might have been the Minnesota case (in which case I apologize to the whackos in Ohio), but as I recall, there was no second trial. There certainly was scepticism on the part of the District Attorney regarding the recanting of the testimony, but as I recall, the accused served seven years and was then released.

However, the point was that even trained professionals in the field of psychology screw up regularly when determining the mental state of others, and the last thing we need (as KC8VWM seems to imply to want) is psychologists making decisions about removing people from society based on the former's assessment of their mental state. Mr. Gerritsen was apparently able to function normally in society except for obviously criminal behaviour. Of course, almost all criminal behaviour is (in some sense) counterproductive to a person's future, but then we all do things from time to time that are counterproductive to our future, don't we? Labelling such as "mentally unsound" may sound cute, but it in fact just blurs the distinction between between stupid behaviour and mentally ill behaviour.

ANd I'm deadly serious when I say that the psychologist that testified to the "hard core unrepentant" nature of the accused, should NEVER be allowed to practice again.

[AE7Q]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,14:05)]Quote[/b] (AE7Q @ Dec. 13 2005,13:18)]There is genuine mental illness, but the whackos out there (especially in Ohio) that try to interpret the mental state of others, is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I don't feel it is necessary to direct personal insults at me for expressing a somewhat informative observation for discussion do you?
I'll be glad to apologize to you for implying that you are "whacko", when you tell us what your medical credentials are, instead of using phrases like "my medical experience" and "my clinical evaulation" to try to convince us that you have some expertise in the field.

[K2WH]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 10 2005,07:42)]Dragging your heels for 4 years on this matter is hardly a cause for celebration. He is also getting away with out paying his fines.

The more I read about the Mr. Gerritsen's case and his actions, the more I am convinced that he has a cognitive dysfunction that may be related to his actions.

I am not validating his actions or what he did, I just don't think we are hearing the whole story here.

For example, why would any normal person randomly pick up a microphone and #suddenly start spewing profanity for hours at a time for no known reason? #

Secondly, why did he keep repeating these actions long after his first offense?

Did he in fact turn down a public defender or did he just not understand the judicial process at the time?

Did he have any cognitive control of his actions? There seems to be an established pattern here.

I have observed diabetics that display a similar "out of control" actions when they fail to take their medications. Is he Diabetic?

The more I think about his actions the more I am thinking he is a 69 year old man probably suffering from a medical dysfunction, yet they want to throw him in a federal prison for 15 years?

This sends the wrong message.

Again, I am not validating any of his actions but I can't help but wonder if there is an underlying issue we aren't hearing about.

Food for thought.
I would expect this from the Left Coast, but you have and "8" in your call. You OK?

K2WH

[k2dyj]

WB2SEB - ARE YOU LISTENING. BETTER WISE UP FELLA

[K2WH]

Quote[/b] (N2ACX @ Dec. 10 2005,10:08)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #K2WH
Next up!

Quote[/b] ]Next up!

K1MAN - Are you listening. #Better wise up fella.

Uhoh....you did it now....hahahaha #you may #end up on 'MAN's".... "nurd List" like I managed somehow.

I was showing the wife how one can come up with alot just by googleing your call, and there it was, the nurd list.
Too funny..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

MAN's Nurd List (http://www.radio-forum.com/policy/K1MANs_list_of_ham_censors_by_call_sign_240692.htm l)
# #OOOOOOPS-----You Are There !!
73 Gary # N2ACX #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yeah, I've been there for some time now.

K2WH

[ke4zhn]

Good riddance to a jamming menace. Baxters next.

[ky1v]

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,14:29)]Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,11:02)]In addition, despite what the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) says, mainstream America isn't buying into this theory that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions and be provided treatment for "mental illness".

David ~ KY1V
Apparently David, you seem to have your own misinformed interpretation and perception of the facts.

Please entertain me and quote me anywhere I indicated that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.
Charles,

For the benefit of the group, I decided to more accurately respond to your challenge.

POINT 1

"The more I think about his actions the more I am thinking he is a 69 year old man probably suffering from a medical dysfunction, yet they want to throw him in a federal prison for 15 years?

This sends the wrong message."

Here, you question the sentence and directly say it sends the wrong message. Through inference, one can easily determine that you think he should not be incarcerated which directly implies that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 2

"I am suggesting he receives medical intervention for his condition as a method of preventing any further violations from recurring in the future."

This implies that he should not be punished, rather he should be "cured" instead. A cure does not constitute responsibility for one's actions and further supports my inference that you think “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 3

"Obviously, it seems the legal system isn't the correct avenue to take in such a situation as a primary method of preventing repeat offenses from happening"

Through direct inference, one can factually conclude that you think he should not have been punished for the first crime. Instead, you imply he should have been treated so he wouldn't be a problem in the future, thereby, clearly indicating he should not have been in the legal system or punished. This would lead anyone with a clear mind to conclude that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 4

"You can slap 'em with a fine, but if they are not mentally competent in the first place, does it really do any good ?

I think the FCC should be considering this avenue for any future incidents of a similar nature."

Here, through inference, one can conclude that you believe the punishment for the action doesn't do any good and the FCC should take other action, for similar misbehaviors. One can easily conclude you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 5

“I feel a psychiatric assessment as ordered by the court for his actions at the time when his first offense had taken place, may have prevented many of his actions from reoccuring.”

A Pyschiatric evaluation provides no prevention. On the other hand, incarceration at the first offense would have certainly prevented future occurrences of this behavioral problem.

Again, once can conclude that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”



Now there are more instances, but rather than continue to bore the group quoting your dribble, I would like to address another issue that could be construed as a mental illness using your own professional medical standards.

You repeatedly question others that you feel attack you…

“I don't feel it is necessary to direct personal insults at me for expressing a somewhat informative observation for discussion do you?”

“I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent discussion group, not a free for all knockdown and dragout of KC8VWM?”

“As far as your intelligence is concerned, I at no time made any reference or directed comment to you in that respect. It's really not necessary to start putting words in my mouth.”

“I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent discussion group, not a free for all knockdown and dragout of KC8VWM?”

…yet you feel it is OK to belittle others...

“Perhaps these individuals would like to compare degrees instead of license classes sometime.”

“Is there any intelligent life out there that cares to perhaps discuss my medical observations of Mr. Gerritsen and the facts at hand?”

“Please QSY your limited mentality to 27.185”


Charles, with all your worldly medical experience, please enlighten us…is this behavior you exhibit a mental illness that requires treatment or a behavioral problem that should require incarceration?
In closing, I would like to ask you to answer the question that has been asked of you repeatedly in this thread…

You claim…

“...I do have a medical background if that should help.”

What medical degree(s) have you obtained that qualify you to make statements such as…

“I am only going to indicate that his repeated actions are not the actions demonstrated of a person of sound mind. Period. That is my clinical judgment on the matter and I am not debating it any further as it is not the primary topic of discussion.”

I would be more than pleased to compare degrees, license class and social class with you at your convenience!

David ~ KY1V

[N8CPA]

Quote[/b] (AE7Q @ Dec. 13 2005,19:05)]Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Dec. 13 2005,14:16)]I think you're confusing the Billy Milligan case with another high profile case.
Possibly. #In the case that I remember, it wasn't Mr. Milligan. #It might have been the Minnesota case (in which case I apologize to the whackos in Ohio), but as I recall, there was no second trial. #There certainly was scepticism on the part of the District Attorney regarding the recanting of the testimony, but as I recall, the accused served seven years and was then released.

However, the point was that even trained professionals in the field of psychology screw up regularly when determining the mental state of others, and the last thing we need (as KC8VWM seems to imply to want) is psychologists making decisions about removing people from society based on the former's assessment of their mental state. #Mr. Gerritsen was apparently able to function normally in society except for obviously criminal behaviour. #Of course, almost all criminal behaviour is (in some sense) counterproductive to a person's future, but then we all do things from time to time that are counterproductive to our future, don't we? #Labelling such as "mentally unsound" may sound cute, but it in fact just blurs the distinction between between stupid behaviour and mentally ill behaviour.

ANd I'm deadly serious when I say that the psychologist that testified to the "hard core unrepentant" nature of the accused, should NEVER be allowed to practice again.
You don't need to apologize. Ohio has produced some real high profile ones, like Dahmer (grew up in Akron), Marcus Chenault, who shot MLK's mother lived across the street from one of my college girlfriends and even Charlie Manson lived in Lancaster for a while. So, yep, we have Buckeyes and other assorted worthless nuts.

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,16:40)]Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,14:29)]Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,11:02)]In addition, despite what the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) says, mainstream America isn't buying into this theory that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions and be provided treatment for "mental illness".

David ~ KY1V
Apparently David, you seem to have your own misinformed interpretation and perception of the facts.

Please entertain me and quote me anywhere I indicated that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.
Charles,

For the benefit of the group, I decided to more accurately respond to your challenge.

POINT 1

"The more I think about his actions the more I am thinking he is a 69 year old man probably suffering from a medical dysfunction, yet they want to throw him in a federal prison for 15 years?

This sends the wrong message."

Here, you question the sentence and directly say it sends the wrong message. Through inference, one can easily determine that you think he should not be incarcerated which directly implies that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 2

"I am suggesting he receives medical intervention for his condition as a method of preventing any further violations from recurring in the future."

This implies that he should not be punished, rather he should be "cured" instead. A cure does not constitute responsibility for one's actions and further supports my inference that you think “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 3

"Obviously, it seems the legal system isn't the correct avenue to take in such a situation as a primary method of preventing repeat offenses from happening"

Through direct inference, one can factually conclude that you think he should not have been punished for the first crime. Instead, you imply he should have been treated so he wouldn't be a problem in the future, thereby, clearly indicating he should not have been in the legal system or punished. This would lead anyone with a clear mind to conclude that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 4

"You can slap 'em with a fine, but if they are not mentally competent in the first place, does it really do any good ?

I think the FCC should be considering this avenue for any future incidents of a similar nature."

Here, through inference, one can conclude that you believe the punishment for the action doesn't do any good and the FCC should take other action, for similar misbehaviors. One can easily conclude you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 5

“I feel a psychiatric assessment as ordered by the court for his actions at the time when his first offense had taken place, may have prevented many of his actions from reoccuring.”

A Pyschiatric evaluation provides no prevention. On the other hand, incarceration at the first offense would have certainly prevented future occurrences of this behavioral problem.

Again, once can conclude that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”



Now there are more instances, but rather than continue to bore the group quoting your dribble, I would like to address another issue that could be construed as a mental illness using your own professional medical standards.

You repeatedly question others that you feel attack you…

“I don't feel it is necessary to direct personal insults at me for expressing a somewhat informative observation for discussion do you?”

“I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent discussion group, not a free for all knockdown and dragout of KC8VWM?”

“As far as your intelligence is concerned, I at no time made any reference or directed comment to you in that respect. It's really not necessary to start putting words in my mouth.”

“I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent discussion group, not a free for all knockdown and dragout of KC8VWM?”

…yet you feel it is OK to belittle others...

“Perhaps these individuals would like to compare degrees instead of license classes sometime.”

“Is there any intelligent life out there that cares to perhaps discuss my medical observations of Mr. Gerritsen and the facts at hand?”

“Please QSY your limited mentality to 27.185”


Charles, with all your worldly medical experience, please enlighten us…is this behavior you exhibit a mental illness that requires treatment or a behavioral problem that should require incarceration?
In closing, I would like to ask you to answer the question that has been asked of you repeatedly in this thread…

You claim…

“...I do have a medical background if that should help.”

What medical degree(s) have you obtained that qualify you to make statements such as…

“I am only going to indicate that his repeated actions are not the actions demonstrated of a person of sound mind. Period. That is my clinical judgment on the matter and I am not debating it any further as it is not the primary topic of discussion.”

I would be more than pleased to compare degrees, license class and social class with you at your convenience!

David ~ KY1V
Well said indeed......

Easy enough to pity the old fool, unless you have a 12 year old that worked to get a license, and then had to listen to that sick garbage.

Or a moron playing an endless loop of a toilet flushing on your repeater.

If you heard some of the stuff that went on, you would be giving old Jack "Life".

Charles would really fit in Kalifornia.....Save the world...

W6NJ

[KC0TPI]

now if we can get rid of K1MAN...(think thatwas the call anyway)

[n6uso]

Hello everyone,

Robert, W6NJ, I couldn't agree with your comments anymore than what you said. #It always seems that it is everyone else's fault for people's actions, but those who do wrong things can not take responsibility for their own actions.

"Whatever happened to the previous sentence he was supposed to serve for jamming police freqs? #I read a 4 or 5 year old notice of sentencing on ARRL.org, but no follow up until this series of incidents. #Was he released on shock probation, or some similar miscarriage?"

Steve, N8CPA, Jack served his time in jail for his offense of jamming police freq's (he Jammed CHP communications during a pursuit of a felony suspect, 1998 or 1999) in the COUNTY jail, a State conviction, not Federal, and was released early due to over-crowding and budget problems within the County's budget. #

Jack Gerritsen was also convicted in another State case (July 2005) I handled and testified in, here in my area. Gerritsen was sentenced to served 120 days in county jail and was released in Sept 6, 2005 (Served 94 actual days or so) and is on 3 years probation on my case, along with a restraining order. This was for "Threats made over the Ham radio". #See my web page for details under "N6USO News". #My case was also a Jury trail and the jury returned the verdict after 30 minutes of deliberations.

Charles KC8VWM, you said "For example, was any mentally incompetent avenue even explored by the legal department at the FCC in this particular instance?" #
I do not believe that the FCC has the authority or obligation to look at the "MENTAL ILLNESS" of anyone, that is for the COURT to decide, and as I said, he would NOT be allowed a PRO-PER status in court if he was "MENTAL ILL".

Dave, KY1V, #I agree, what you said was very well put.

Thanks, 73,
Be Safe,
Deputy Burton Brink-N6USO
Los Angeles County Sheriff's Dept
Temple Station
626-285-7171
Owner/Trustee of the 145.440- 136.5 (Tone) Repeater Sunset Ridge, Southern California
www.qsl.net/n6uso

[N7TDK]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Bush has selected Mr. Gerritsen as the new FEMA communications mangager ??

[K7JAZ]

Quote[/b] (N7TDK @ Dec. 13 2005,19:16)]Is there any truth to the rumor that Bush has selected Mr. Gerritsen as the new FEMA communications mangager ??
You mean to tell me that Baxter (K1MAN) didn't get it?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,16:40)]Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 13 2005,14:29)]Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 13 2005,11:02)]In addition, despite what the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) says, mainstream America isn't buying into this theory that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions and be provided treatment for "mental illness".

David ~ KY1V
Apparently David, you seem to have your own misinformed interpretation and perception of the facts.

Please entertain me and quote me anywhere I indicated that citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.
Charles,

For the benefit of the group, I decided to more accurately respond to your challenge.

POINT 1

"The more I think about his actions the more I am thinking he is a 69 year old man probably suffering from a medical dysfunction, yet they want to throw him in a federal prison for 15 years?

This sends the wrong message."

Here, you question the sentence and directly say it sends the wrong message. Through inference, one can easily determine that you think he should not be incarcerated which directly implies that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 2

"I am suggesting he receives medical intervention for his condition as a method of preventing any further violations from recurring in the future."

This implies that he should not be punished, rather he should be "cured" instead. A cure does not constitute responsibility for one's actions and further supports my inference that you think “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 3

"Obviously, it seems the legal system isn't the correct avenue to take in such a situation as a primary method of preventing repeat offenses from happening"

Through direct inference, one can factually conclude that you think he should not have been punished for the first crime. Instead, you imply he should have been treated so he wouldn't be a problem in the future, thereby, clearly indicating he should not have been in the legal system or punished. This would lead anyone with a clear mind to conclude that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 4

"You can slap 'em with a fine, but if they are not mentally competent in the first place, does it really do any good ?

I think the FCC should be considering this avenue for any future incidents of a similar nature."

Here, through inference, one can conclude that you believe the punishment for the action doesn't do any good and the FCC should take other action, for similar misbehaviors. One can easily conclude you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”

POINT 5

“I feel a psychiatric assessment as ordered by the court for his actions at the time when his first offense had taken place, may have prevented many of his actions from reoccuring.”

A Pyschiatric evaluation provides no prevention. On the other hand, incarceration at the first offense would have certainly prevented future occurrences of this behavioral problem.

Again, once can conclude that you believe “citizens with "behavioral" problems can be excused of their actions.”



Now there are more instances, but rather than continue to bore the group quoting your dribble, I would like to address another issue that could be construed as a mental illness using your own professional medical standards.

You repeatedly question others that you feel attack you…

“I don't feel it is necessary to direct personal insults at me for expressing a somewhat informative observation for discussion do you?”

“I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent discussion group, not a free for all knockdown and dragout of KC8VWM?”

“As far as your intelligence is concerned, I at no time made any reference or directed comment to you in that respect. It's really not necessary to start putting words in my mouth.”

“I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent discussion group, not a free for all knockdown and dragout of KC8VWM?”

…yet you feel it is OK to belittle others...

“Perhaps these individuals would like to compare degrees instead of license classes sometime.”

“Is there any intelligent life out there that cares to perhaps discuss my medical observations of Mr. Gerritsen and the facts at hand?”

“Please QSY your limited mentality to 27.185”


Charles, with all your worldly medical experience, please enlighten us…is this behavior you exhibit a mental illness that requires treatment or a behavioral problem that should require incarceration?
In closing, I would like to ask you to answer the question that has been asked of you repeatedly in this thread…

You claim…

“...I do have a medical background if that should help.”

What medical degree(s) have you obtained that qualify you to make statements such as…

“I am only going to indicate that his repeated actions are not the actions demonstrated of a person of sound mind. Period. That is my clinical judgment on the matter and I am not debating it any further as it is not the primary topic of discussion.”

I would be more than pleased to compare degrees, license class and social class with you at your convenience!

David ~ KY1V
Very well said. #Having worked in law enforcement, and my wife who also works in it, we have both heard many many excuses of why they need to have their actions excused. #It seems that it comes down to one word RESPONSIBILITY. #

Many persons are not willing to accept it any more. #What is worse yet there are poeple who are buying into that idea and then passing the blame to us because we caused people like Gerritsen to do what he did.


“Perhaps these individuals would like to compare degrees ..."
Very nice attitude here by someone who feels they are superior due to that certain paper hanging on the wall. #This of course gives that person automatically more insight than any of us here in their eyes.
BTW Chuck, having a degree of ANY kind does not necessarily mean that you are any more enlightened than the average guy working at McDonalds. #Degrees are great, however keep in mind that some of the most enlightened persons you meet may not have that Ph D, Masters, #Bachelors degree, or even a high school diploma. #

The bottom line is we will always have those among us that will never take responsibility for their actions. #There will also be others that find that totally acceptable and will go through any length to pass the blame to everyone else and state their "degrees" allow that due to their "vast medical insight"

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (n6uso @ Dec. 13 2005,18:43)]Hello everyone,

Robert, W6NJ, I couldn't agree with your comments anymore than what you said. #It always seems that it is everyone else's fault for people's actions, but those who do wrong things can not take responsibility for their own actions.

"Whatever happened to the previous sentence he was supposed to serve for jamming police freqs? #I read a 4 or 5 year old notice of sentencing on ARRL.org, but no follow up until this series of incidents. #Was he released on shock probation, or some similar miscarriage?"

Steve, N8CPA, Jack served his time in jail for his offense of jamming police