The Shield of Anonymity

[AA7BQ]

Although it is largely unknown to most of our users, we (the editors at QRZ) are facing a growing problem with anonymous users on this website.

What is an anonymous user? #
To us, it's any user who registers with QRZ.COM using a nickname or handle that is not a real name, not an amateur radio callsign, and has no obvious links to any real identity. #The typical anonymous user usually hails from one of the so-called 'Free Email accounts" such as hotmail.com or yahoo.com. #

Why are they a problem?
Well, on the surface they shouldn't be a problem. #Many people equate anonymity with privacy and subsequently insist that they have a "right" to remain anonymous if they so choose. #We can understand that position even though we don't necessarily agree with it.

The reason that we don't believe that anonymity is a right is because of its potential for abuse. #Nobody, in our opinion, should have the right to harass or abuse people and then escape prosecution behind a convenient veil of privacy, or in this case anonymity. #This isn't a hypothetical example, it is a real and almost daily occurrence that continues to take place here on QRZ.COM. #When such individuals are identified, we deal with them swiftly using the tools that we have at our disposal. #Depending on the egregiousness of their offense, they may be given an administrative warning, or, they might be banned from the website altogether. #Much depends on the attitude and cooperativeness of the prospective bannee.

Before we go any farther, let me make is clear that being anonymous is not a crime in and of itself. #We have literally thousands of clean-nosed and courteous anonymous users who are well deserving of our respect and dignity. #We just happen to have a few hundred that aren't very deserving and several dozen that are just a mouse click away from our digital black list.

Banning users has its limitations, however. #If an anonymous user has been banned for inappropriate behavior, there is really nothing we can do to stop them from re-registering using another assumed or contrived identity. #After all, since we didn't know who they were when they first signed up, how will we know when it's them again?

Technical readers will be quick to point out that such banning can be based on the offender's IP (internet) address, however, the vast majority of users don't have a permanent IP addresses, instead being assigned a temporary one every time they dial up. #If we ban a range of IP addresses, for example, all of those belonging to a particular Internet Service Provider (ISP), we will invariably lock out others who don't deserve it. #This happens because many hams, unknown to each other, can often use the same ISP. #

Why does QRZ even care?
We care at QRZ because the price for doing nothing about it would certainly be paid through our good reputation. #Given a choice, I would rather that QRZ be known as a friendly and uncompromising website that doesn't tolerate abusive behavior than an internet version of the .435 repeater where everything goes under the guise of "free speech".

Speaking of Free Speech, several users in our Forums have accused QRZ of censorship. #They say that posts have mysteriously disappeared, and sometimes users have been quietly banned. #It's a scene right out of the X-Files. #What's going on here? #Well, today is the day that I break the lid off of a highly classified secret. #Yes Virginia, we DO censor the site. #We censor the content of QRZ in an effort to maintain its quality. #If some jerk logs in and posts a ranting, profane post filled with expletives, then we delete it, no apologizes. #What would you expect us to do? #

We don't censor postings that are simply stupid or that disagree with the norm, we just try and keep things decent and above board. # "No hurting people" is a good first-grade lesson that we enforce here. #The other one is "No breaking the law", and finally, "No profanity" (with some exceptions).

Similarly, when someone posts detailed instructions or other information that supports or aids illegal activities, we can them. #Again, no apologies offered. #It takes a lot of time to generate a thoughtful apology, often more than it's worth. #We usually don't have the time to investigate a miscreant, track down their posts, clean up the mess, and then write a teary-eyed apology and insightful explanation as to why it was done. #Let's face it, people know when they're being bad so why let such an episode degenerate into a pissing match?

Is QRZ a democracy? #No, it isn't. #Are we obliged to publish differing viewpoints so that the free speech of others is protected? #No, we aren't. #Will we generally allow discussions about any topic? #Yes, we will, provided that they are conducted respectfully and with decency. #As you might expect, we get to judge what constitutes decency. #Not many people have ever complained to us about our grasp of community standards.

Adding to that, we will argue for YOUR right to put up your own website and espouse any particular agenda that suits you. #Now THAT is free speech.

Let's look at some statistics:

Number of registered users: 130,000
Number of page views per day: 250,000
Number of visitors per day: 25,000
Number of users banned in the past 30 days: 10
Number of active topics on this site: 10,000
Number of rejected/deleted topics per month: 12
Percentage of banned users who believe that we are unfair: 100%
#
So, as you can see, you have to try pretty hard to get your post rejected or to become banned yourself. #Granted, it may not seem very hard when you are the one being banned, but, these folks still insist that we're unfairly singling them out.

What can and can't be done?
Well, there have certainly been times when we have openly wondered if membership should be limited to those who present their callsign upon registration. #On the other hand, we like to keep open arms to prospective newcomers to the hobby and firmly believe that we should include them in our membership. #What about so-called FreeBanders and CB'ers? #Well, they vary in consistency like my wife's mashed potatoes. #Many are lumpy, poorly composed, and dearly hanging on to their echo chamber microphones. #Others, not so dumb, are frighteningly dangerous and diabolical. #To be honest, I'd rather not include them however there is absolutely no way for us to check credentials on anybody, regardless of who they say they are.

Do we need to support anonymous users?
I'd really like to hear your opinion on this. #Please don't email me or send a private message - just post your reply here in the forum. #I don't have time to answer 100's of emails, even though I'd like too. #When stating your opinion, please be specific as to what specific need is addressed by allowing someone to remain anonymous when posting messages to this site. #Frankly, I don't consider the "need to be heard" a need that in and of itself warrants the protection of anonymity. #

Afraid that criminals will hunt you down if you reveal your name? #If this is the case then I suggest that you NOT post and find another hobby. #Afraid that QRZ will SPAM your mailbox until it is overflowing with Viagra and Get Rich Quick messages? #If so then think again - QRZ has never spammed, never will, and is a supporter of a current bill in congress which would allow the use of lethal force to shoot spammers on sight (well, actually that was a dream that I had :-) )

So, the next time you notice that a posting or a username has disappeared from the system, have no fear - we're just trying to keep a lid on this crazy, crazy world we call Ham Radio.

73, # -fred #AA7BQ

[WB4ULK]

Maybe you could just restrict posting privilages to non-anonymous users. Everyone can look at the site and benefit from the info, but make it where you have to have a "real" email address or a callsign to post in the forums. That way ,maybe, it would cut down on the posts that you have to get rid of.

Just an idea.
Chris
WB4ULK

[wg7x]

Fred,

First let me say that I really enjoy the QRZ.com site, not to mention the very cool look-up facility on ham calls.

The site has become my personal favorite, and I for one really appreciate the fact that it exists.

Please ban all anonymous users. I feel that if a person cannot stand behind what they have posted, then they should not be posting. QRZ.com is a public forum, but it is privately owned.

Fred has found out, I think, what a PITA these anonymous cowards can be.

BAN 'EM!

Thanks... I feel better now.

Back to our reqularly scheduled arguments now!

73 Gary WG7X

I post "good" posts and "bad" posts. Good posts being a comment or a help to someone with a question, or an "ataboy". Bad posts being negative feedback about a trade gone bad. I agree with Fred in this statement in his post </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"No hurting people" is a good first-grade lesson that we enforce here. The other one is "No breaking the law", and finally, "No profanity" (with some exceptions).[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

As Fred does provide the site for amateurs, which is a very useful tool, he alone has the authority as to who does and does not post here, and I for one, I support him in what ever decision he makes! Fred you've got a good site, keep it that way!

[n9kpn]

I can understand why a number of people use anonymity on the web. #Most of the SPAM I receive at my primary e-mail account is mail sent to my ARRL e-mail redirect. #I don't know if this is from ARRL selling their mailing list or from people scanning boards such as this and adding my e-mail to the list. #Some of my accounts (Hotmail for instance) are useless as the inbox is filled in less than a week. #The messages I get that have been forward from arrl.net seldom are from other members of the board or on air contacts. #Usually the message is for the scam of I give them my bank account and they "store" their ill gotten riches in my account so they can transfer it out of their country. #Or the free coffee maker, laser pointer, or digital camera etc. #If a HOTMAIL account becomes so bogged down, it is easily abandond. #It is quite easy to see why someone would want to use such an account.

[ke4qdm]

Friends, Romans, Country Men lend me your ear.

While in college our president addressed several complaint letters to the dining hall from anonymous people. And he addressed them this way: "If you are not man (or women) enough to sign your name to a complaint or comment then you can not be heard." Our forefathers wanted and believed in free speech so much that they signed their own names to the Declaration of Independence. If they could sign their names to such a volitile letter, we can certinally sign our names to our simple thoughts.

We have the freedom in the USA to stand up and be heard, so go ahead and sign your own name.

David M. Peterson
KE4QDM

[ke5wj]

Fred,

First thanks for QRZ.COM and the efforts you put into maintaining it. I, and many others, appreciate it.

I think anonymous users should not be allowed to post.

That said, I cannot see how you could enforce that, since anyone can get an email address and create anonymity that would be hard to track down, some for valid reasons. So, I'll go along with whatever you decide.

73,

[kb5tii]

Thank you for this site. Nobody objects to using their call sign during a qso on the ham bands so why object to letting others know who you are on a ham related site. Just give your callsign, say your peace and pass it to next guy. Tnx Fred for keeping it clean.

[ab9dz]

Get rid of the anonymous postings. If someone knows they can be identified, they may think a little harder about what they post. Also don't you think it would help weed out the scammers in the classified?

[BeenThere]

In the past, I have posted helpful info and, info which I feel is interesting as well. YES - I'm anonymous. SO WHAT?

I have also been hassled by those who do identify themselves. Are they "excused" because they identified themselves? I don't believe so.

Just because these people identify themselves does NOT necessarily make their post any MORE legitimate - nor does it negate the harrassment they have maliciously committed. Especially when it is clear that some of them have NO point other than to flame me/others because I may have a different view or disagree with their directive.

Why should I identify myself when I know that there is some creep out there who feels justified in admonishing/flaming/labeling me because I don't tell him and WORLD who I am, and, because I disagree with following their beliefs and directions?

Why should I let this creep know who I am if they are going to lash out at me so quickly in such an ugly fashion?

Why would I want them to know who I am? So they can accost me at the next hamfest or look up my callsign and stalk me? Is QRZ.com going to accept liability for anyone who decides to visit my QTH? Think about it.

Did anyone ever hear of unlisted phone numbers and P O Boxes?? Well, there's a reason for it! I choose NOT to identify myself for safety reasons because of these individuals and their ugly tempers. I do not have a problem with anyone else who also posts anonymously assuming that their post is proper, of substance' and within the intended thread.

The last person to flame me on a thread here DID ID himself and he also got into an arguement with another poster who also ID'd himself and also disagreed with him. The person who flamed me wasn't satisfied until he "got the last word".

This arguement about ID cuts BOTH ways and anyone (anonymous or not) who disagrees is not being totally honest.

Identifying one's self does not ALWAYS legitimize their statements or necessarily make them "more right" than someone else who has a truely valid point. This should be obvious.

The "NEED TO KNOW" has evidently become more important than the topic at hand'. Sad

- 73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KC8TCQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa7bq @ May 07 2002,15:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We don't censor postings that are simply stupid or that disagree with the norm, we just try and keep things decent and above board. # "No hurting people" is a good first-grade lesson that we enforce here. #The other one is "No breaking the law", and finally, "No profanity" (with some exceptions).

Similarly, when someone posts detailed instructions or other information that supports or aids illegal activities, we can them. #Again, no apologies offered. #It takes a lot of time to generate a thoughtful apology, often more than it's worth. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well put sir, this wonderfull hobby is one that is enjoyed by people of all races, nationalities, ages, ect. We do not want to give amateurs a bad name, and we definately do not want to expose the younger hams to any more garbage than they are already exposed to in the modern media.

The clean friendly banter I heard on my SW radio is one reason I wanted to become a ham. Lets continue this effort by keeping the discussion groups clean, if you want to use foul language or get a little stronger point across, take it to private email.

73 de Keith

[W7RLL]

As I write this there are 24 votes in the poll preceding Fred's post. I am the 1 under "It does not matter to me." I voted prior to reading the post. I do not wish to change my vote but if I had not "Put the cart before the horse..." I may have voted differently.
Fred has a tough choice to make. Does he allow anonymous posters and make some people unhappy OR does he ban anomymous posters and make some people unhappy. As for myself, I have often wondered why some posters were hiding behind an alias. Some of them were using the alias so they could be outrageous and could start flame wars without anyone knowing who they are. There are also some posters that use an alias for their own "security". They feel safer talking from the shadows of anonymity.
I am glad that I am not the one that must make the choices here.
Fred, go for it. It is your site and the majority of us will support your decisions no matter what they are.

[KC8TFO]

A lot of people, for whatever reason chooseto be anonymous. Some to raise trouble, others more more legitimate reasons.

Banning users just because they want to be anonymous, or because they dont have a valid amateur callsign isnt the best approach in my opinion.

Doing so doesn't solve the problem, it just makes new ones. Here's why:

When you make it imposible to register without a callsign, people will just make one up. Comparing it the info on file with the FCC, isn't always a good idea as alot of people dont have the same address on their license, or else the station address address is different.

What I would do is this: Either give regisered users with a valid callsign imediate posting, and delay posting of anonymous users until thay have read and approved. Or imediately post all users, and place a link or radio button on the post to report spam or otherwise objectionable material. This way, nobody is discriminated against.

Maybe its not the easiest way, But I think its the best way to make everyone happy.

[KG6FTL]

THOUGH I WOULD UPHOLD A PERSON'S RIGHT TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS, FOR WHATEVER THEIR REASON SHOULD BE IN SELECTED CASES. I DO NOT FEEL THAT QRZ.COM NEEDS TO ACCOMODATE THEM. BY THE VERY NATURE OF THIS WEBSITE, PEOPLE SHOULD AND NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND THEIR INPUT. AS LICENSED AMATEUR RADIO OPERATORS, WE ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH AN OPEN BOOK.

BESIDES, LACKING THE BACKBONE TO IDENTIFY WHO YOU SHOULD BE, INVALIDATES ANYTHING YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY. STEPHEN / KG6FTL

I choose to remain anonymous for the same reason you, Fred, do not want email replies to this post. It seems that some QRZ users have and continue to send email replies to authors of a post. This is my question! Why not just post it to the group, why email. A second reason I choose to remain anonymous; I don't like some folk’s idea of fun. Fun being signing me up for every ridiculous email list, joke of the day, prayer of the day, and daily pornography list one can find.

I am sure Fred, your inbox is filled with more junk than you care to have. I too am tired of this. This is why I like keeping a non descript user name. Never mind the quacks that during the course of a thread makes the lawsuit threat, or starts making phrank phone calls in the middle of the night.

There is your answer.

[AD6WL]

Very good comments. #But I must say I don't mind people posting Anonymously. #It dosn't bother me one bit. #It may even make things a little more interesting.

This is the internet this is not on the air. #I feel that we should not have to give our callsign on the internet if we don't want to. #That being said, whatever QRZ decides will not change my use of the site or respect for the editors of the site. #I obviously use my sign and will contiue to do so. #

If an anonymous or nonanonymous user post something inappropriate ban them. #Ban them for the content of their message, not because of their choice to share or not share their callsign over an internet message board.

73, Jim
AD6WL

[KG6JRM]

I Fully agree with every word of your post!! #I think that this is a HAM OPERATORS forum and it should be just for us operators. I think that this site should be as the bands are, don't have a call? then you can only listen!! no talking (or posting). #That's my opinion, What's yours?
Jeffrey A. Davis / KG6JRM #General Class Ham radio Fanatic. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I think it is important to note that one of the fundamentals of democracy is to provide protection for viewpoints that may not always be popular. Our Supreme Court has often upheld the right of anonymous political dissent.

Yes, I am aware that this site does not claim to be a democratic institution, but, as an American, I would would expect it to at least lean towards democratic principles when practical to do so.

Another thing to consider is that most of us here value our privacy. Registering with our call signs is just one more way to expose our personal information to the Internet. When you post with your real call, someone out there knows that you are an active ham. I am sure someone somewhere has a program that grabs all the call signs of this site and sells the contact info (from the fcc database) to a direct marketing company somewhere. Result: you get more junk mail.

Think it doesn't happen? Try posting to usenet with your real email address and watch your inbox fill with spam. Not all of us who post "anonymously" do so with sinister motives.

I propose we handle the issue of anonymity not by censorship, but by creating a system of moderation, similar to the one in use at http://slashdot.org (I have no affiliation with slashdot.org, except that I am a regular visitor).

That site allows users to score each comment on a scale from 1 to 5. Postings that have a high score are seen by everyone, and postings which are moderated low become almost invisible. This way, no one is censored, and folks who don't want to read the garbage don't have to. Did I mention that non-anonymous users are automatically scored higher than anonymous ones? Take a look around the site and you will see how it works.

There is already software out there, free for the taking, that handles this very well, and, IMHO, is much better than the message board software this site is currently using ( http://slashcode.com ).

It seems that members on this forum favor not allowing anonymous users. Perhaps this sort of exclusive attitude is the reason why many people prefer not to be involved in the hobby. I am a ham myself, but I think the amateur radio community sometimes shoots itself in the foot with ideas like this.

Not only is banning anonymous users exclusionary, but I don't think it is even possible. As the discussion board grows, Fred's job of manual moderation will become a full time job, and will leave him little time to focus on improving the rest of the site. Then who will have won? I can tell you who will have lost: the users of this site.

Why not take a positive step, and allow the community to judge a person on the value of their contribution, rather than the name they go by?

73
(Callsign witheld)

This server, or cluster of servers, belongs to you, Fred. It's your property.....you own it. The Ham community is a "self-policing" community, so if there are lamers out there insisting on disappearing into the deep dark corners of anonymity, let them do it.......but do it elsewhere.

I personally think that since QRZ.com is by-and-for Hams, we all should treat this as an extension of our RF world.

The reality remains that this system belongs to you and it's yours to do with as you see fit.

You willingly ask for our opinion, and folks are obliging you. Mine stands with the majority..........poop-can 'em.

Thought..........how many anonymous folks out there screen their phone calls using caller-ID and if the caller info displays as either "unknown" or (drumroll please....) "ANONYMOUS", they don't respond? Their phone, their property, their time, their choice. Really, what makes this any different? If folks want a two-way, then ID.

Hmmm....food for thought?

R,
Doug

[SilentKey]

WOW. All I can say is...wow!

First off, I can see the possible need to want to restrict those who abuse the posting privileges here at QRZ.com, but there are a lot of us " no names" out here that feel that our posts and contributions are just as valid as those who utilize a call sign. However, there should be alternative measures taken to forum abuse, and each should be viewed on its individual "merits", and should be handled on an individual basis. How QRZ will handle this is beyond me, I am not devising a plan; merely stating that an open forum is an open forum is an open forum. All members should retain the privilege to post, simple as that.

As for my anonymity? I have an e-mail address in my profile. If you disagree with me, send me some correspondence. Although I am not a licensed amateur I still uphold the ethics and behavior as if I had been. I hold nothing but respect for the people who post here, and I think 99% of the others do as well.

Also, I have to admit that I was incensed by the idea of restricting the anonymous. This would elude to non-amateurs and others that Ham radio is nothing more than a half-assed rabble of snobby 11-meter operators closing their doors to outsiders. Come on already. This isn't a secret society like Freemasonry, and besides, isn't the amateur supposed to be supportive? Open your mind, and be an Elmer where and when you can. Everyone has their 2 cents, and I hope that both amateurs and non-amateurs alike will respond to this.

It is the little things like this that keep me from getting my Ham license. A good majority of amateurs have a piss poor attitude and put themselves above non-hams as much as they can. The mere thought of an amateur of this calibre as an elmer would have me running full speed in my wheelchair away from him/her. No joke.

Deal with the bad apples on an individual basis, that is all I wish to say.

73's

Silent Key

(The Dead Fist)

[W5HTW]

A very difficult decision to make. On my own web site I have a disclaimer that it is MY site, it is a privately-owned site, and the opinions expressed are --mine--. I also state, if you send something to my site, it may be published, but it is at my discretion. And if I DO publish it, it will be with full identification information, including your email address. Well, of course, my site isn't as busy as this one, so it's easy for me to do. It isn't easy for you. The principle, though, remains the same. YOU control the content, not WE. It's your choice. Given a preference, I will vote for no anonymous posters, but only by a marginal vote, since I really think you need to make the decision.

Why would I vote against anonymous posters? It is undoubtedly true many of them have sensible and courteous things to say. But I believe, as a long time columnist in newspapers, two things - "Sign your work," and have "The courage of your convictions." In over forty years of writing political columns, and even Letters to the Editor, for various papers, I've never once requested anonymity. And I have never been harrassed, despite clearly writing columns that disagreed with the majority of readers, and sometimes, by a wide margin! It has been journalistic process for as long as there has been journalism, that, if your opinion goes public, you go public.

I get spam. Gobs of it. Interestingly, right after posting something that I knew wouldn't sit well with the ham community on one of the major ham sites, I got viruses sent to me as well. So what? It says I rattled the cage, and that was probably my intent, to instigate some thinking, instead of echoing the party line. And I can still find the Delete key, even though the lettering is worn off my keyboard.

We think we are in a democracy. But every one out there, who has any kind of job, is outside democracy. The boss tells you what to do. And if you're the boss, you tell the others what to do, and you do so without a vote.

So Ban the Bum, to paraphrase an old Boston edict. It's your choice. There is though, one thing that has to be considered, and it may negate the entire discussion! Many, or at least some, non-hams visit this site, not just to passively read, but to ask questions. Perhaps you could limit the non-hams to the Assistance forum (for lack of a better word) and leave the opinion forums to those with licenses?

Good luck with your decision!

73
Ed W5HTW


PS. I do hope you will keep it ham radio related.

[W5ATX]

Fred, I agree with your entire post. And to those who cry about free speech, as was said earlier, put up your own website, servers and all, and tell me how FREE your speech is. It's not.

The anonymous stuff would seem to have a valid place, but over time it's just gotten out of hand. Too many folks want to shoot off their mouths and refuse to stand behind their posts, so they don't deserve to be heard.

Since this website is for hams, it should be hams and hams only. No callsign, no post. The exception I see would be one forum for those who want help getting started. I'd hate to see legitimate future hams have no way of reaching us to get the help they need and deserve. So ONE forum for them.

That's my $.02 worth. I hope it helps.

73,

Chris

[kl7of]

If you don't have the (take your choice) Guts, Moxie, Sand,Grit, Balls....etc to post your name or call when you make a post...then you don't deserve to have your opinion heard......You are just another loser that is afraid to show his face.....You are that ####### that stands at the back of the crowd and shouts his opinion out anonymously......If this was my site and I had the ability to censor....I would ...no questions asked...If you want to make make your opinion known, then get your own site...this site can do as it pleases and if you want free speech you'll have to get your own site.......If you can't tell us who you are...then we don't respect your opinion...it is that simple... so buck up and be a (wo)man...IDENTIFY......Steve Joachim KL7OF

[kc8fwd]

Hello,
I think if you do not use your callsign you should not post here.Reason for what do you have to hide.I understand that there are good posts out there from people who do not use their callsign but, for everyone out there, are ten who ruin it.This is a ham site and for ham use so why hide behind a name use your callsign.When I post to the for sale area I only sale to someone who has their callsign in their e-mail or the e-mail address and never had a problem.Well just my two cents worth 73's de KC8FWD

Mike Talkington
EM99
Clarksburg,WV

[kv4dz]

Fred,
I'd not worry about it too much.
a lid is a lid, and lid is as lid does,..most of us recognize them at first glance of a QRZ post, and it takes about 2 on air comments to get used to the idea of the HF with 5wpm credentials.

We did it to ourselves.

KV4DZ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[NE5U]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Anonymity on the web, for the most part, is an illusion. Yes, you can go through redirectors' and obfuscate your identity to some degree but 99.99% of the users of the web are not aware of that nor do they care. If someone wants to identify you they probably can if they want to put forth the money and the effort. My vote was to ban anononymous users. Mostly because anonymous is such a big word. Just kidding. My reasoning was simple enough. I think that if you have something to say then you should step up to the front of the crowd and speak. Don't hide in the back and skulk around.

I have been spammed up to my ears by "things" that have obviously used a "bot" to get my ARRL.Net address from this site or others like it. That's the nature of the web. You can't hide from bots. Even the guy that was griping about his Hotmail account filling up isn't getting it. He has a Hotmail account that fills up with SPAM because (1) he isn't checking the account and deleting the SPAM and (2) Bots found his address somewhere. So tell me exactly how using an anonymous address has made a difference in the amount of SPAM that he receives? There has been no difference or worse, more than likely, Hotmail sells his address and his SPAM is greater than if he had used a real address.

As I said earlier, anonymity on the web is an illusion for the most part. Once you log on you are part of the collective (We are Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile).

I think that there should be no such thing as an anonymous POSTER. If you want to read the articles and posts and use the site, fine, remain anonymous. If you want to speak out on a topic, then you should have to have enough character that you will register with a real name and address.

73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Mike
WM5LL

[K5LMW]

I love the QRZ and this is the second time I have posted to it. The first was about ham license plates. I believe totally in free speech. But what does free speach and remaining anonymous have to do with each other. When the constitution was written there were two ways to exercise free speach, the spoken word or the written word. If a person has a right to say something, I as the receiver have a right to know who said it. (Personal opinion probably not supported by the Supreme Court) Almost always, anonymous post seem to be usually some one griping about something or saying something bad that no one really wants to listen to anyway. I voted for no anonymous post. I must be in good company as there was like 81% at that time that agreed. Maybe eliminating anonymous post would eliminate a lot of needless griping and complaining and the focus of the site could remain ham radio at it's best.
Larry
K5LMW http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K5LMW]

Sorry left a line out of my post I just sent. After the line "spoken word or written sord" there should be a line saying that in those days it appears that a person could well be identified by his voice or his writing as it appears that the authors of the Constitution all had distinctive hand writing and probably most everyone else did at that time.
Sorry http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K5LMW

[KG4PYX]

Well, what a topic. I obtained my ticket last November, and was proud to be involved in something clean and wholesome for a change. You can't find it on broadcsat anywhere, and even Disney, under it's affiliates, do not maintain the standards we have grown to expect from them.

As far as banning those that live in anonymity, let them, and let them have access to this site. Of course I believe this was your intent all along. As to their being allowed to post, that might be where the line can be drawn. As mentioned before, you can allow them to post anything only after their message has been moderated. Yes, this is censorship, but the networks have censors, too.

Ultimately, this is your site, and you have to decide what is best for the site. All we can ask is that you be fair as you have always been. I know my best friend's 12 year old son will be registering without a call soon, so he can use the practice tests for Technician. I want him to be able to do that, but also be shielded from the negative attitudes.

Thanks for all you do.

73

Chris, KG4PYX

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K5LMW @ May 07 2002,19:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry left a line out of my post I just sent. After the line "spoken word or written sord" there should be a line saying that in those days it appears that a person could well be identified by his voice or his writing as it appears that the authors of the Constitution all had distinctive hand writing and probably most everyone else did at that time.
Sorry http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K5LMW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Instead of sending a new post to descripe the changes to your last post, all you have to do is go to your original post and select "EDIT." #It may make things a little easier.

[WR2S]

Keep up the good work. Whatever you are doing is fine with me. If you stop, then the 'bullies' win again.
73,
Bob WR2S

[KB1GYQ]

"Free speech" is only guarantied on the private property of the speaker, or on public land. This site is Fred's property, and he has the right to permit or forbid whatever he chooses. Futhermore, when he asks someone to leave, and they do not, it is criminal trespass. In many jurisdictions today that analogy to physical trespass is directly applied to electronic trespass. Whether I support Fred actions themselves or not, I respect his right to make and enforce them; for in so doing, I am defending my own right to defend my property against trespass.

Unfortunately it is very hard to establish the identity of an internet user. Requiring a valid callsign is not the answer, as it is very easy to find a list of valid callsigns to attempt to use, and foreign callsigns are not easily verifiable. The best that I can envision doing is to require a valid, not free, email address; not permitting posting until the address is verified. A user should be able to use any valid email address, free or not, as their publicly available address - analogous to using a P.O. box.

[k4dje]

Ban 'em Sorry, if you don't have the gonads to ID, then I don't want to hear from you. If you are worried about your safety then stay on the couch, watch TV and let the world pass you by. k4dje/ Dan

[N3BIF]

This is a privately held site and is under no obligation to allow anyone to post ....If someone enters your abode and you take issue with what they say or how they conduct themselves you have every right to show them the door #and if they dont get the hint you may have them removed. #QRZ has every right to ban whomever they want without cause this is not public property.

# # I personally dont understand why anything of non-amateur nature is even posted, if it is not going to further the science of ham radio then it shouldnt be here .

# # # #As for annonimity I think it is fine for folks to come here and "read only". If they wish to post then "sign in please" #but a callsign should not be a requirement to do so. #If one is afraid to be forthcoming with their identity then so be it , # we all make choices ..........

[K4JSR]

Whaat's all the hassle? #Those who wish be anonymous
can go join a 12 step recovery group. #If you think that
you have a right to be anonymous and political at the
same time have not read the Constitution. The only
anonymity is at the ballot box. Try anonymously raising
a stink at your next town hall meeting; or at your
county commission meeting! #ROTSA RUCK! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
If you want anonymity, then silence would be the only
logical choice.
Unfortunately, I am too opinionated to stay silent,
too fat to hide easily, and not afraid to say who I am.
If getting more spam and some threatening calls are
the price I pay for this, then so be it.
Meanwhile, get back on the air, have fun, learn to get
along. #If this hurt your feelings, then tell me about it
at the next 12 step meeting! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Fred, Make 'em ID.
73, #Cal K4JSR

[KC8TPF]

I side with restricting only the postings, I have had my license for just under 30 days but I`ve #been comming to the site for a whole lot longer. QRZ is my home page the practice tests got me through the real test and now I`m running the general test questions, you should be able to have a say #with a real e-mail address just try to write to the editor of your newspaper without i.d.
GREAT SITE please keep it that way.


# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Steve KC8TPF

[kd7bfx]

I strongly agree with several previous posters that part of the solution lies in not allowing anonymous users to post. This will allow prospective hams and like minded folks to come have a look at amateur radio, while eliminating a good deal (not all; the spiteful and malicious are persistant and resourceful, unfortunately) of flaming, *gratuitous* foul language, and sundry nastiness, bigotry, and selfishness. How to still allow and even encourage people to ask questions and seek advice before they are licenced is the hard part for me to figure out. Perhaps some sort of limited user account that permits new folks to post and participate in only certain forums, and on certain topics?

I must add also that part of the problem here is the clash of cultures between ham radio and the internet. Being known is a high value in amateur radio. We as hams seek to have as many other hams put our calls, names, QTHs, station description, etc. etc., in their logs as possible. This gives us a feeling of achievement, and rightly so. The internet has always (so far) been a place of anonymity, privacy, of alter egos, and that has been the source of a great deal of its value and strength, that it allows one to safely (in both the physical and psychological senses) find out about topics, discuss issues, and meet likeminded others, when to do so in the "real" world would be difficult, embarassing, or even dangerous. Think of all that have been helped and healed, of myriad illnesses of mind and body, by the information and fellowship they found on the Web, USENET, and email. Having said all that, I do agree that it is hard to see why anyone would have a need to preserve their anonymity *here.* None of the topics discussed here, or what we do as hams, is truly controversial (as opposed to *arguing* about this rig and that antenna, how the bands are better/worse than ever, etc. etc.). We may appear a bit nerdy/geeky to the non-ham, but does any one of us really think he or she needs to remain anonymous to protect their jobs/families/reputation? Other than the (mercifully few) trolls and troublemakers, no, I doubt it.

73 de Will, KD7BFX

[KC9ASI]

Last I checked, this site is about amateur radio.

Most people interested in amateur radio know the rules that pertain to amateur communications on RF:

1) No unidentified transmissions.

2) No obscenity.

If we all follow those rules on here (and everywhere, actually - on the telephone, in our day to day interactions), the world will be a happier place.

It is wholly reasonable to require identified posts with no obscenity on QRZ.com.

It's bad enough when we start cussing at work; I don't need to see that kind of trash from anonymous bozos online.

I will have to disagree with those who wish to ban the anonymous users. Did I register anonymously? Yes. Am I using what some people are calling a "fake" e-mail address? Yes. Does this mean that my contributions are any less valuable? No.

First, I am not a licensed ham so registering my call sign is not possible. Currently I am studying for my Technicians license. What does that leave me with to register with? Because I am not a licensed ham operator does that make my contributions any less relevant than those who have earned their license?

Second, I do not own a computer; there fore I have no need for an ISP. I have access to the Internet in my dorm and at my parent's house. I have no choice but to use one of the free web-based mail services. Does this make my address "fake"? Not at all, it is very real to me. If you look, I do sign my name at the bottom of this post and am not "hiding" in secrecy.

Lastly, this thread reinforces most of my experiences with licensed hams. Most are very ignorant and act as if they are a "step above" the rest of us who have yet to earn their license. The others are more than willing to show off their technical knowledge, but not wanting to explain it to those of us who do not have a background in electronics. This "holier than you" attitude will destroy this hobby. Why am I still pursuing my license then? Minnesota and Michigan do not allow scanners in a vehicle unless you are a licensed ham. As a railfan and photographer I need a scanner in my truck to understand what the railroad is doing. I can decide if I should stay at my current location or find someplace else. I do have a couple of fellow railfans that have ham licenses, they are infact the only ones who have explained ham radio to me in a way I can understand and do not look down upon me for not being a licensed ham.

Having said all that I will agree that this is Fred's site and his servers; he should do as he feels is right. But looking at the statistic he provided, the percentage of abusers to this website compared to the number of users is very small.

Brian

[w6th]

I will repeat what has been mentioned preciously, And he addressed them this way: "If you are not man (or women) enough to sign your name to a complaint or comment then you cannot be heard." #I believe by not signing your call or who you really are have a problem and they will be bringing we at QRZ.COM, problems, so as I do, dont recognize any of them or converse with them. I don't care for cowards.

Fred .. there are those who are going to find a way to pee in the pool no matter what you do! It is simple human nature, however, that given anonymity, certain people no longer care. I strongly agree that posting should be only allowed by those who clearly identify themselves. I wonder if QRM would go away if it were possible to identify everyone?

[kd4idr]

Why not just implement a /. (http://www.slashdot.org) style moderation system in the message boards? That way the users/moderators can adjust the signal to noise ratio and no one can say they have been censored...

paul
kd4idr
palo alto, ca
http://www.pafree.net

[kc5nyo]

I reckon I'll side with the pro-anonymous crowd. I can't understand why everyone is more interested in "who" posted something than "what" they posted. If it has merit, it'll stand on it's own. If not, don't read it, and ignore future postings by them! DUH!

And what's with all the he-men tough guy types here? I post with my call............. that makes me a man? Better-endowed than anonymous posters? Puuuuuleze! I'd rather be judged on my "manhood" by the way I take care of my family, how I treat other people (including anonymous posters), and how I "live" my life. Not that I probably couldn't use improvement in all those areas.

Man! Whatever happened to humility, humbleness, and the knowledge that I am not one whit better than the least of any of these. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif


73, Mike
kc5nyo

[KC9AXZ]

Set the "rules" you feel necessary. I'd prefer to read posts by "real" people. If you play in my house, you play by my rules. If you don't like my rules, there is the door. If you want my help leaving, I'll be glad to help.

If this was my "house", I'd deeply consider popular demand. The people who need to remain annon, would probably be better off not posting anyway.


73

Jon Rohde KC9AXZ

[n6yg]

Well once again I have to say that amateur radio/ ham radio operators are shooting themselves in the foot.

It once again just seems like a group of people who are letting their egos get to them. It seems like they believe that they are so vastly superior to anyone without a ham radio call sign that they need to exclude themselves from the average stupid person. This is just the Attitude that is slowly infecting amateur radio like a cancer.

I belonged to quite a few discussion groups. This particular topic is something that you would never see come up in any other group. I could never imagine the DVD+RW form restricting Posts to people who only owned a DVD writer. It really seems like amateur radio attract quite a few individuals with nothing better to do with their time but come up with ways that they can control other people. I first witness this after watching a local 2m repeater owner Ban a ham from using HIS REPEATER. And all because this Hams opinion on some trivial matter was different than the repeater owners.

My personal opinion is if you’re dumb enough to post personal information on the internet you deserve anything and everything that comes your way. I just hope that I’m not the one that has to investigate your homicide. #Some of us have been on the internet long before it was ever opened to the general public as the World Wide Web. Because of this experience we’re wise enough to know that Identity theft is climbing towards epidemic levels. Anonymous names and e-mail accounts are most people’s first line of defenses against worldwide exposure. Keep in mind that this is a worldwide form that is mostly #text based it is very easy for someone to copy and paste a call sign and look up personal information. #I personally do not want the whole world knowing that I have very expensive ham radio gear sitting in my house. And then with a click of a mouse button know exactly where that house is. That is why I shield my home QTH As much as possible by utilizing post office boxes. When dealing with people and entity’s that I am unfamiliar with . I in the same way shield my personal information “online profile” #while using the internet. I personally have five hotmail accounts, and one ISP e-mail account. Every time I join a new group I start a new hotmail account for use exclusively with that group. It’s amazing that the only time I use a particular e-mail account is when corresponding to its associated group. The amount of absolute junk/trash #that I receive in these accounts is daunting at best. #I cannot even check these accounts while my son is in the room because 90 percent of the garbage that is sent to me is not fit for his eyes. I cannot believe that good Hams would sell or provide my e-mail address to individuals knowing that they were going to send this garbage to me. I’ll be damned if I’m going to use my one and only good e-mail account in which I receive zero spam just to join a group.

I’ll say it again, this appears to be nothing more than a bunch of hams with nothing better to do with their time but find ways to make themselves feel superior to others by controlling what others do or how they do it.
# #After reading the posts related to this topic I have come to the obvious conclusion that the Majority of posters would have been much happier living under Hitler’s rule. They obviously feel superior and believe its there right #to force people to do things their way. This is the reason I believe that restricting Posts to individuals dumb enough to provide there personal information to the entire world holds no merit.

If the majority of users posting on this topic seem so concerned with the image that anonymous posters Might be reflecting #about amateur radio to the general public. #I say think again, amateur radio operators with valid call signs are doing plenty of harm to the image of amateur radio in These groups. Take a look at the “DX Contesting” Discussion for perfect example of how hams portray such a negative image of themselves. I’m scheduled to take my general exam on the ( Date edited for obvious reasons) #of this month. #After reading the #“DX Contesting” #Discussion group I’m seriously asking myself why in the world I would even #want to bother with this.

Then again I have to ask myself why is it some of you Want to know a Posters home address so bad? #Do you have plans for them if they say something that you might not like. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

As a detective working within a fairly large precinct. #I have other reasons for not wanting my home QTH and personal info Published.

73’s
anonymous and for good reason

I'm in the pro-anonymous camp for the following reasons:

Spam.
Webbombs.
Virus Attacks.
Prank Phone calls.
Threats of Violence.

As a former moderator of a really wild and sometimes nasty BB I have been subjected to all of these.
(f'dcompany for those who are curious)

There are times when it's a really good idea to make a unpopular statement without the fear of retailation.

de kg6ejo, Ted

[n6yg]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC9AXZ @ May 08 2002,01:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Set the "rules" you feel necessary. I'd prefer to read posts by "real" people. If you play in my house, you play by my rules. If you don't like my rules, there is the door. If you want my help leaving, I'll be glad to help.

If this was my "house", I'd deeply consider popular demand. The people who need to remain annon, would probably be better off not posting anyway.


73

Jon Rohde KC9AXZ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Jon is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. #Control control and more control. Jon it just looks like you need to start an exclusive club for people who think like you, talk like you, and have your same beliefs.
amateur radio has no place for that kind of attitude #

sometimes I'm just ashamed to be an American.

>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jon C Rohde
1301 Alabama Ave
Sheboygan WI 53081-5221
USA
>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Doesn't that make you just a slight bit uneasy
no harm intended just an example of how vulnerable you are. when you make it that easy for someone to find you.
imagine how bad things could turn out if I was some sort of kook who took major offense to something you said. once again no harm intended I was just making a point . #



By the way for a good example of a way to shed positive light on amateur radio. Take a look at this discussion group >>>> Formula For Fun...<<< The posts in this discussion group do a fantastic job of showing the world the good side of amateur radio operators. This is a perfect example of the effort we all should Exhibit to bring about a positive light in regards to amateur radio operators.




73's
anonymous for good reason

[KAMR]

In this GREAT country USA a person is free to say anything he wants as long as it follows the right of free speech.

I believe that making accusations anonamously is the chickens way out. Say you accuse someone of infidelity with no proof whatsoever you have many potential victims created by this statement with no accountability on your part, the anonomous one , hence a family is destroyed children are traumatized all because of your chicken sh*# method so if you are bold enought to make a damaging accuization you should be bold enough to post your name and be accountable.

Beside posting anonomously demonstrates that most likely your statement is filled with inaccuracies and libelous statments and meaningless drivel and your really not very proud of your self-professed independent free thinking ability.

Bob KAØMR

[KM5QF]

I support qrz.com's opinions on the anon. postings. Thanks for a great site and a very useful research tool for me and my fellow hams to use. DE KM5QF 73

[mikewings]

Fred,

I also have enjoyed QRZ for a long time and thank you much for the work.

I can understand the reasons why anonymous posts are a problem, but it is like a lot of isssues we are dealing with these days. Where do you draw the line?. Censorship is a slippery slope. I think you can set some basic guidelines for any posts and apply them to all of us, anonymous or not. I am in the camp of supporting anonymous posts if they pass the basic rules of the site.

73's Mike WA1GWE
Minneapolis, MN

[KC8TSR]

I have been an unregistered user (without the ability
to reply to topics) while I have been aquiring my ticket.
I waited patiently, and kept my opinions to myself until
now.

I have great respect for the amateur service, and I believe that if one is not a "card carrying member", one should not interfere. If they have an opinion that must be expressed so importantly, than maybe they should study and get their Tech ticket.

If anyone wishes to debate this with me, please feel free to contact me thru QRZ.COM. I am NOT anomynous.

KC8TSR

[ag4sb]

Without yet wading through the other opinions, I'll make an ass out of myself and point out something that I've noticed over the years regarding anonymity on the internet. I have yet to run into a website, chat system (relay, irc, aol, yahoo, etc.), or bulletin board in which maintaining anonymity is difficult without major effort upon the part of the moderators. Even with those efforts, it's not impossible.

It would not be difficult to fake a callsign. It would not be difficult to steal someone's callsign who isn't already registered. It would be dead simple, actually, and neither the moderators nor readers of the forum would know the difference unless and until said individual revealed himself as a fraud. The only thing that requiring a call to register would do is make it difficult for honest non-hams to inquire on the forum.

If there are thousands of anonymous users who aren't causing trouble, and a few dozen idiots that are, it seems far more sensible to me to simply ban the ip's from which the idiots are coming from and the let rest be...it would certainly be less of an effort upon the part of the folks who run this forum.

Derek
(and before anyone asks, qrz hasn't updated my call yet...i'm not making an effort to prove my own point. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ag4sb ne kg4clc)

"The Blaze" has a point, but I don't agree with him. I do similar work, and anyone can go to white pages, accurint, etc and find info. The big point this "is" a ham radio site. Ban them all is my voiced opinion. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[K9FV]

Fred, it is your choice as to what you do. BUT, from what I've followed the site, there is more of a problem from ID'd posts being hard than there is from non-ID'd posts.

Even thought I'm ID'd here, I was VERY uncomfortable with the idea.... There are just too many robots searching the web for e-mail addresses.

I realize it's more of a hassle for you (well, maybe not - not sure) to censor the site with non-ID'd posts. BUT I do agree with you about deleteing some posts. You've even allowed some I could have agreed to delete.

Your guideline of "Harm no-one" is a good one.

Keep up the good work!!

Ken H>

[m1avv]

I don't mind people using a name other than their callsign, if they have something to hide then it doesn't bother me, that's for the FCC to worry about.
I'd prefer not to see posts by people who give absolutely no information at all as to where they are from (anonymous coward type messages) or have a user name which is a)someone else's callsign b)intended to cause offence.
What about a "vanity" callsign system for this kind of forum where users can choose a non-amateur callsign of their own which is still correct as far as the ITU is concerned (like W31AB for a US ham, VE97YZ for Canada) There should also be the option of using your real callsign if you have one for messages where you need to tell people what it is.

[N8YV]

With amateur radio itself, no license is required to "read the mail". #Wanna transmit legally on the bands? Then get a license! I don't want to talk to you, or hear your opinions on anything over the airwaves unless you are AUTHORIZED to do so!

I believe anyone visiting this site should be able to view posts here, whether "I.D.'ed" or not.
Posting, however can, should and hopefully will be limited to those who have registered with some form of acceptable identification.

Many "anonymous" posters may be left-out in this way, some unfortunately with good contributions and ideas.
I listened for #years to amateurs as an SWL, even QSL'ing many hams whose transmissions I had the good fortune of catching. I could never contribute to a QSO, because I was not licensed.

If users want to post, then they should be authorized by QRZ.com, to do so. #Many internet newsgroups employ such "filtering" for their sites, some even going so far as requiring membership just to read messages. #I am not necessarily advocating open identification in the form of a callsign--again, newsgroups use a system in which a member's identity can remain "private", but still identifiable by the moderators for administrative control.

If a similar authorization/acceptance process can be implemented on this site, I would be entirely in favor of it. #I hope the owner and moderators can make this happen, as I feel it would greatly benefit QRZ.

It isn't particularly important that I be able to identify the poster myself, as long as I know that they have been identified by the site owner and/or moderators. #

N8YV

[W0BKR]

If you want to be anonymous, go somewhere else. This is an amateur radio related site and one should be required to use their callsign. If you are "scared" of being identified, then you should have nothing to post or so.

It's your site, set the rules of engagement!

These are probably some of the same losers that post packet announcements, playing cop on top of DX, tuning up on DX operations, etc. Impotent at best, but still undesireable.

I say, set your rules and abide by them!

[wgowern]

Ban them. 73-Bill (KR6DX)

[WA0LSS]

Is there room for ONE more comment on this?

It seems to me that the solution is simple:

1-- Everyone can <ital>READ</ital> posts and other site material and we should welcome them.
2-- Only Registered Users can <ital>POST</ital> to messages, etc.

This is how we used to run our BBS's in the days before public Internet access. #While I highly value the right of privacy (any registration information should be tightly guarded) I do not believe in the right to POST anonymously. #I do believe in <ital>Name Withheld by Request</ital> if someone wants to write to the editor and the editor chooses to publish a letter, but in an open form such as these it seems to me that we should stand behind out rantings... So I'll sign this,

73,

Scott
WA0LSS

[N5OZQ]

'It seems to me' that the approach WA0LSS states is as succinct as it gets.

Allowing a completely anonymous post is not acceptable. Restricting posts to licensed amateurs goes too far in the other direction. The right to post needs to have registration connected with it. I firmly believe that there is a a pool of talent with even and just judgement in the moderators here to handle this as is traditionally done in journalism - that is editorial priveledge and position. This amounts to taking the posture of a benevolent dictator, and that's fine with me.

Keep up the good work -

Tom North, N5OZQ

. . . everybody's got something to hide 'cept me and my monkey . . .

[WD8OQX]

Fred;

First off I'd like to thank you for all the hard work you put into this site and let you know that I see that you have a real problem with this issue.

That being said, I have to say that I was going to go with the "must ID" group until I read some of the post. I see "lejit" reasons for both opinions and that leave me teetering. I DO think that you should continue to cencer (althought I see the work in that).

Now for the meat of this post...
Wasn't this very topic posted before on another abuse issue? And wasn't it already desided that there would be no more anomimous logon? If this is the case then the desision has already been made (I would think)
But I have to say that either way some inocent person is going to pay the price for someone elses bad acts. I don't like to punish all for the likes of a few. So I would probably allow the non-ID and continue what you are doing with locking out the offencive when it is seen. Granted you may have to do this several times but I think this would be best for now. Given the numbers you provided it look like a small %. If this grows to the point that you have no choice than to ban then I will stick behide you on that too. As I would rather be part of a site that cares about what goes on than one that doesn't give a $#!^ and lets it run amuck.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
{edited comment} After reading some post after this I think someone else came up with the best solution and I think this is the way to go - give your true ID to the system admin or you don't post at all!!!!! If you want to stay "hidden" to the rest of us thats your business (fair to all)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck on the outcome - I'm behide you either way.
73 - WD8OQX

[KG4RYT]

BAN THEM IF THEY DON'T HAVE A CALL SIGN OR JUST HAVE BAD MANNERS http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I.E. BAD LANGUAGE AND PERSONAL ATTACKS http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
GREAT SITE http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K1LCA]

I agree with the 'Everyone can read, only identified members can post' standard of business. Some people are quite willing to gripe, stir the pot, and cause unhappiness as long as no one knows who they are and they can hide behind a wall of secrecy. People hide for a reason. I don't buy the hiding to avoid spam excuse. We all get junk mail, and we all have delete keys.

Do whatever is necessary to keep this site from becoming trash. I really like the site and have learned a lot from the folks here.

Thanks for all your hard work. K1LCA

[WB6CKA]

It's your site, Fred. You make up the rules ... those that visit the site should have to follow those rules, or leave. The last time I looked at the poll ... the majority of the votes were for "not allowing" any anonymous posts. I would say that the majority rules, but it's your call in the end.

Personally, I generally won't even read a post by someone that is anonymous, however, I have read the ones in this particular forum due to the title of the subject being discussed. Even though I do see some merit in what some of the anonymous posters had to say ... I am still unmoved. If someone has something to say (pro or con) about a given subject, then (I feel) they should have the intestinal fortitude to stand behind it. If you have something to say, but are afraid of reprisals ...then maybe you should think twice about what you are going to say! (I really can't take something serious when I read it, if the person that wrote it had to hide behind a veil of secrecy!)

This argument could go on and on ... There are probably going to be good points on both sides, however, I have always subscribed to the "majority rules" theory! Again, it's your call, Fred! You own the site!



73's ... Martin (WB6CKA)

[NE5U]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ May 08 2002,09:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well once again I have to say that amateur radio/ ham radio operators are shooting themselves in the foot.

Some of us have been on the internet long before it was ever opened to the general public as the World Wide Web. Because of this experience we’re wise enough to know that Identity theft is climbing towards epidemic levels. Anonymous names and e-mail accounts are most people’s first line of defenses against worldwide exposure.

I personally do not want the whole world knowing that I have very expensive ham radio gear sitting in my house. And then with a click of a mouse button know exactly where that house is.

After reading the #“DX Contesting” #Discussion group I’m seriously asking myself why in the world I would even #want to bother with this.

As a detective working within a fairly large precinct. #I have other reasons for not wanting my home QTH and personal info Published.


73’s
anonymous and for good reason[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Detective Blaze,

Interesting handle. Something to do with fire investigations?

First, How has something posted on a web site bulletin board, DX discussion group included, caused HAM operators to shoot themselves in the foot? Since when does the web or anything written on the web define anything about HAM radio?

If you had spent any time on this site (joined today to post?)you would know that there are people that post malicious and unnecessary rhetoric anonomously. It's gotton bad enough that something needs to be done about it. Maybe banning isn't the right approach. I don't know. But, as someone that posts opinions WITH my callsign at the end, I see a percentage, albeit small, of people that post anonomously abusing their anonimity by inciting "flame fests" and then pouring gasoline on them. I don't think that they would if they were more easily identified. I don't envy Fred's position at all. I would have been frustrated to the point of giving up a long time ago. I never have been cut out to run a day care center.

Second, if you think that you have remained anonymous you are mistaken. With all of your alleged Web experience you should know that your IP address was logged when you signed on. Your ISP has record of what time you sign on and off of their server and Fred's server has your IP address logged when you signed on and off of his. Finding you, should anyone want to do something so ludicrous is a very simple matter. It just takes time and a lot of work. As a detective in a large precinct I am surprised that you don't know this. You can defend yourself from prying eyes by finding one of the so called "web Cafe's" and using a stolen credit card to buy time and then using an "anonimizer" service to obfuscate your IP address. If you use an anonimizer to connect to multiple anonimizers then you can probably remove about 99% of the risk of being found by all but the best cyber investigators and the NSA. But even that has it's risks. The IP address is STILL LOGGED. They found Mitnick numerous times. You can be found.

Anonymity on the web is an illusion.

Assuming that you are a detective (It's hard to tell), I don't blame you for not wanting to put your info out here for all to see, however, the last time that I checked, if you are a HAM, you have a callsign. And if you have a callsign your info is out there for all to see. Everything but your job description. If some member of the criminal element wants to find you and steal all of your #"expensive HAM equipment", all that they have to do is look you up by YOUR NAME in the FCC database or they could follow you home after work. They don't need QRZ'ed to find you.

Anonymity in the web is an illusion. Break the looking glass and you will not like what you can see.

73

Mike,
WM5LL

[K7RME]

Love your site! I "haunt" it everyday. I applaud your efforts to keep it civil and as pleasant as possible. Please continue to do whatever you see fit to hold to your standards. This is one of the very problems that has brought our schools and institutions to the level they are now.
I want to ID my comments - otherwise, how will I ever hear a dissenting opinion? How will I ever learn?
Keep up the great work!
Wen
K7RME

[KC2JCA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BeenThere @ May 07 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why would I want them to know who I am? #So they can accost me at the next hamfest or look up my callsign and stalk me? #Is QRZ.com going to accept liability for anyone who decides to visit my QTH? #Think about it.

Did anyone ever hear of unlisted phone numbers and P O Boxes?? #Well, there's a reason for it! #I choose NOT to identify myself for safety reasons because of these individuals and their ugly tempers.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Paranoid much?

73, Jim - kc2jca

You own this site and are not bound by the Constitution. The Constitution only applies to matters of the rights of an individule in a much broader picture than a hobby.

This ia an Amateur Radio site, and the best one in this members opinion. My two cents worth says ban em'. And allow posting/member access ( whichever is cheaper and easier on QRZ as a fiscal entity ) to licensed Amateurs only. If a call sign turns out to be bogus or used without permision of it's owner....ban em'.

This is your site. But. and this is a large but, through your success and generosity "control" to some extent has passed to the community you serve. I think you will find that most of us ( read licensed, regular users of the site ) don't appreciate the lame and too often vulger " contributions of our Masked Siberavengers.

Too bad really, comsidering such as "RM" who actually contribute in a simi-compitant manner.( Couldn't resist that one ).

73 de Craig........KCØGOA

[ag4rq]

Fred,

You tried to eliminate the problems caused by anonymous posters by eliminating the “Anonymous Coward” posts. However, those who prefer to lurk in the shadows found another way. They registered with “handles”. All I see from them is excuses. Such talk as fear of someone coming to their houses, stalking them at hamfests, targeting them for break-ins to steal their ham gear, targeting them for a murder, getting obscene phone calls and spam are just lame excuses. If these people are that paranoid, they shouldn’t have ham licenses. That way, no-one could find out who and where they are. They shouldn’t even be on CB, as CB nuisances can be tracked down as well. These paranoid people shouldn’t be transmitting period. They should just be on the Internet with their fictitious handles where nobody knows who or where they are.

I believe that most of these anonymous people on QRZ are just using the paranoia issues as excuses. They want to remain anonymous so they can continue making their bold nasty statements that they wouldn’t dare to make if they were posting with their callsigns. As long as they are anonymous, there is no consequence for their actions. They just keep flaming and taking pot shots at everyone else who legitimately ID’s themselves. In this respect, they are no different from terrorists, who lurk in the shadows and pounce with a surprise attack. The only difference is that these people attack with their keyboards instead of guns, bombs and the like. Every personal attack that was directed at me on this site and eHam.net was done anonymously. People tend to hold their tongue more and conduct themselves more civilly when they ID themselves. We’re supposed to be hams. If we can ID with our callsigns on the radio, why not here also?

The Internet seems to bring out the absolute worst in people, mostly because of anonymity. People wouldn’t dare to say face-to-face what they dare to say on the radio. People wouldn’t dare to say on the radio what they say on the Internet. The line has to be drawn. Eliminate anonymous posters. QRZ registrations should only be accepted if made using a valid amateur callsign. If this fails, it may be necessary to have everyone register by sending you a snail mail with a SASE, so you can send them back their password at the address that the FCC has on record for their license. Non-hams and prospective hams should be allowed to register with a handle, but should be limited to posting only on the so-called “Open Forums”, which are “Questions and Answers”, “Talk and Opinions”, “Equipment Reviews” and “Forum Test Area”. They should be allowed to read anything they want on the site, but should be restricted to posting only to the “Open Forums”. You have a great site, Fred. Keep up the good work. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73 de Mark
AG4RQ

[K8UT]

It seems that we are treating this problem as being bi-polar: you are either IDENTIFIED or ANONYMOUS. There are problems with either - IDENTIFIED exposes yourself to spam, abuse, stalking; ANONYMOUS gives the opportunity to perform nasty deeds without fear of retribution or accountability.

In an earlier post, someone said that they had the "right to be anonymous", and used as examples an unlisted phone number or a PO Box. But, in fact, those people are not anonymous, they are merely unidentified... the Post Office and the phone company know who they are.

Which raises the third option - being UNIDENTIFIED. If you are unidentified, your postings would include some constant pseudonym that would mask your true identity to outside readers - but your true identity is known to the system administrators.

I suggest that the forum be read-only to all, and that posters must be registered users of the system. These registered users could choose to be either identified or unidentified.

-larry
K8UT

[K6VB]

I agree with much that has been said. I am for restricting posts only to those that are licensed hams, as this site is specifically for "Radio Amateurs".

If an individual doesn't have the balls to stand behind their postings with their name/callsign, they should not be allowed the privilege to post messages.

Anonymous postings are a coward's paradise, as it's easy for someone to hide behind a cloak of anonymity and flame others or intentionally post controversial topics to manipulate the QRZ user base by "Stirring the Pot", thus causing dissention within our group.

73,
Jim (K6VB)

[ve3bqn]

I am so glad this exists. #I cannot believe that you have all the trouble but I know years ago when I had a bulletin board several very foul language post a week was not uncommon.
To the people providing me with this sevice I say thank you!
regards
Ted Sparrow #Ve3BQN

[w4rry]

It just occured to me that I don't log in! I call up my page on your system and check my visits and then I leave. I never thought that I was supposed to log in. Maybe there are others . dumb and happy, like me? In any case I will login from now on, really love QRZ, it is where I get my BATTERY BOOSTER SALES! I could not exist without you!

Leo Lehner http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

You have to register with the site to post here. Logically, it seems that if there is a problem, the point to tighten up at is registration. I prefer not to have my callsign displayed, as I have received nasty emails previously from some of the no code nazis out there, and why waste the bandwith on something you're just going to delete anyway. Many posters on this site show little interest in engaging in dialog, just in expressing a personal opinion. Well thought out posts tend to be ignored as the forum continues.

I think that you have done a fantastic job with this site. It is one site I always use. It is very popular with the general ham community, and you have a great set of tools available. I wish you the best of luck with cleaning up the posting environment.

I do not see a correlation between the contents of the post and the identity or lack of identity of the poster.

73

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Which raises the third option - being UNIDENTIFIED. If you are unidentified, your postings would include some constant pseudonym that would mask your true identity to outside readers - but your true identity is known to the system administrators.

I suggest that the forum be read-only to all, and that posters must be registered users of the system. These registered users could choose to be either identified or unidentified.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I agree with that post. Why not ensure that the registrations are legit on the system, in order to allow people to post? People can use whatever pseudonym they want as long as the web site owners know who they are. People who refuse to provide the system with id are denied permissions to access the boards. It's simple. Other forums on the internet do this all the time and it works.

Sure, there are ways around ANY system, but most people who just want to shoot off a flame won't be bothered to work around them.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[BeenThere]

I agree 100% with KC5NYO's post. He hit the nail on the head.

Anonymous contributors have posted many positive comments and good info on this site and continue to do so.

There are too many who are too concerned with the "NEED TO KNOW WHO" as opposed to the "NEED TO KNOW WHAT". This is actually part of the problem.

I personally do NOT care about reading ANYTHING from any poster who has NOTHING to say - ID or not. Also labeling someone as a coward just because they posted something useful and didn't ID themselves is short sighted.

Many of the ugliest comments I have seen so far on this particular thread have actually originated from those have identified themselves. They are NOT excused.

[w8lm]

Demanding to be logged in to answer a poll on anonymous users is BAISED
at least because you EXCLUDE anonymous users from voting.

Example:
Shall we ship all the Blacks out of the country?

then exclude all Blacks from voting...

Welcome to the Middle Ages...

This is actually pretty sad that amateur radio has degraded to this. I think most people are totally missing the point. What is SOOO wrong with being so-called anonymous? I did not pick this name to cause trouble, hide, etc..... This is my screen-name I've had for a great many years. I have been registered on QRZ for 5+ years under this name. Should I re-register just to make a few curious people happy? No. Am I a trouble maker in the forums? No. So take it out on me?? Makes sense. Pay attn. in the forums and youll see that most of the flaming, babbling, incoherant non-sense is from the LEGIT (ID'd) hams.
Take posting priveledges from the anonymous and youll still have the same problems. This is the internet, and just like in real life, youll have your cornballs and flakes. Just take it as it comes and deal with it. I think if the "anonymous" start getting banned, etc... just because they didn't choose to register with their call (for whatever reason), it will cause even more problems.
Think about it before any rash action is taken. This is life, you just gotta roll with it.

[AA7BQ]

Mr. Crackerhead,

The problem isn't so much with anonymity - it's with people who come in here, crap all over the place, insult people, tell lies, and then run back into their anonymous hole and laugh at all of us.

If this wasn't happening, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

-fred

[kg4okm]

Seems like a no brainer here, this is a site about amateur radio right? We have to ID on the air right? I see no problem ID'ing here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kc5nyo]

Gee Fred, name-calling from you? Mr. Crackhead? His name is crackerhead. Hopefully you just misread that. If not, I think we already know which way this issue will end.

And worried about someone laughing at you? I've lived with that all of my life! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

If there was a "least" thing I was ever worried about, it would be that.

73, Mike
kc5nyo

[ne5b]

Let me start by saying QRZ is a Super Site!!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I have no problem with anonymity, if you behave and contribute in a postive fashion. # However if you choose to take cheap shots, flame, aggrivate, and harass others then #you have given up that right.

Freedom of speech is important and if you want that freedom then you need to be prepared to stand behind it with your real identity. #If you refuse to stand behind what you say and hide like a coward then you my Dear Sir/Madam rank among the lowest forms of humanity.

I believe those that have a problem with censorship on QRZ and believe they have the right to post things #anonymously that deserve to be censored #are probably the same folks that either don't have a callsign and illegally transmit on our bands, or have a callsign and fail to identify themselves when interfering with others.

Just like in other walks of life Here on the Web on QRZ, rules have to be made and enforced not for the majority but for the few that fail to live by the common sence rules that should of been instilled in each of us when we were children.

I say ban all anonymous posters, have all users enter a vaild email address (yahoo hotmail or whatever) then send them a validation email msg, to which they must either reply or click on a link enclosed in the msg to become validated. # Consider them anonymous until they have verified to you that they at least have entered a vailid email address.

Fred I have a trick that will track the repeat offenders, not by ip address but via other means - email me and I'll show you how. #Only takes about 5 lines of code.

thank god QRZ doesn't censor msgs due to poor spelling!

[ne5b]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4okm @ May 08 2002,16:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Seems like a no brainer here, this is a site about amateur radio right? We have to ID on the air right? I see no problem ID'ing here. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You can't dissagree with this!

[N5HUP]

Fred,
# # # This service that you provide for the ham radio community is a great thing and a whole lot of work to
keep it going. #As the one who provides this service it
seems to me that you have the right to refuse the service to any or all for your own reasons. #If any of us
run a business we also have the right to refuse service
to all or any for many reasons. #It's a high class place!
Act respectfully! #We never really know what we have until it's gone! #Keep up the good work Fred and Thank
You for a great place to hang at and enjoy. #Best 73's.

Glen - N5HUP

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa7bq @ May 08 2002,10:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The problem isn't so much with anonymity - it's with people who come in here, crap all over the place, insult people, tell lies, and then run back into their anonymous hole and laugh at all of us.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Then those are the ones you should be going after. What is being proposed here is going after anyone who isn't registered with their call as their screen name. You can't just take a whack at the wole crowd because of a few bad eggs.
No matter what changes are made, they will always be here. Start requiring the use of calls for screen-names and they will just start using other peoples calls. Ban them and they just re-register with a new name (call). Ban their IP and they will just reconnect.
I think this whole topic is moot and the time and resources could be better spent elsewheres. (perhaps even helping other hams??)
Good Luck
Mike
And for those who just HAVE to know -- N1VHY

[wd0ct]

This is not a democracy so ban em'.

[N2RJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke5wj @ May 07 2002,19:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Fred,

First thanks for QRZ.COM and the efforts you put into maintaining it. I, and many others, appreciate it.

I think anonymous users should not be allowed to post.

That said, I cannot see how you could enforce that, since anyone can get an email address and create anonymity that would be hard to track down, some for valid reasons. #So, I'll go along with whatever you decide.

73,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually, eBay has a good model. They allow free email addresses, but they require a credit card number in that case. The credit card number is used to verify identity. If you have a valid registered ISP email address, you use that and you require no credit card number, as they can gain recourse from you through your ISP.

Now, my suggestion for QRZ.com - Require EITHER a valid callsign OR a valid ISP e-mail address. For example, joe_public@hotmail.com will not register, unless it belongs to KA6XYZ. Same way, a user with no callsign can use his ISP e-mail address joe_public@att.net and that will validate his identity.

[N2RJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BeenThere @ May 07 2002,19:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why should I identify myself when I know that there is some creep out there who feels justified in admonishing/flaming/labeling me because I don't tell him and WORLD who I am, and, because I disagree with following their beliefs and directions? #

Why should I let this creep know who I am if they are going to lash out at me so quickly in such an ugly #fashion?

Why would I want them to know who I am? #So they can accost me at the next hamfest or look up my callsign and stalk me? #Is QRZ.com going to accept liability for anyone who decides to visit my QTH? #Think about it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have a good compromise. You identify yourself when you sign up to post, but that information is available only to Fred unless you specifically allow all users to view your identity. Or it can be an opt out type of situation, where your identity is revealed, but you have the option of being anonymous. Sort of like unlisted phone numbers. The phone company knows who you are, but the whole world doesn't.

Fair enough?

[N2RJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (anonymousham @ May 07 2002,21<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is already software out there, free for the taking, that handles this very well, and, IMHO, is much better than the message board software this site is currently using ( http://slashcode.com ).[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
FYI: QRZ was using slashcode up till recently. #It was slow as molasses.

You are quite right - Slashcode was very slow. #More importantly, however (speed can be fixed) was that it was far too complex for many of our users to understand. #The Slashdot.org site is a great place for computer nerds, but, it's odd lingo and arcane "points system" confused the majority of our users.
-fred

[wa6itf]

In my view, if you are not proud of whom you are, then you should not be posting here or anyplace else. (Nor should you be sending out unsigned paper mail either. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )

de
Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF

[N2RJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa7bq @ May 08 2002,13:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mr. Crackhead,

The problem isn't so much with anonymity - it's with people who come in here, crap all over the place, insult people, tell lies, and then run back into their anonymous hole and laugh at all of us.

If this wasn't happening, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

-fred[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
BINGO.

Fred, you the man. Don't let anyone tell you how YOU have to run YOUR site.

[KD7RBE]

Just wanted to say thank you. #When I first came to this site I did not have a call sign. #I was looking for information and help in getting my ticket. #I'm glad I was not restricted from using this site. #I have made some good contacts and have been getting some of the information I was looking for.

I also used the practice exams and other resources. #Purchased my radio from a link on this site. #I do not blame you for wanting to keep this a good place to go. #That is why I came ! #Before coming here I was pretty well on my own. #If you need to restrict, could it be held to the resource areas and practice exams ?

Of course, if you need to identify those who come here better to keep the place civil, then so be it.

Thanks again to all #"spdzrus" #KD7RBE

[n4sl]

82% say NO to anonymous posting as of May 8th at 2016Z.

If this were a presidential election, they would be talking about the HUGE LANDSLIDE for 30 years!

73, N4SL (look me up, I'm a real person)

[WI7L]

Fred,

I think that all decent hams are behind you. Keep up the good work! QRZ.com is no place for smut and filth any more than the airwaves are. Thanks for keeping it a "clean act"

73s
Lee

[k2pdj]

If someone gets mean and/or causes problems, don't post them on the web site! It is not the purpose of the website to support lids and troublemakers. It is your website so you can make the rules. Dont let a insignificant minority cause problems for the majority like they do on the ham bands.
Bruce E. Bennett

[zs2bl]

Congratulations on an excellent site. It is my favourite resource for ham radio news. Personally, I believe that if a user wishes to voice an opinion, they need to be accountable. Perhaps a solution to accomodate those who fear being identified, would be for an on-site
register for nom deplumes. This way, no one other than the operators of this site would have access to their
private details such as callsign and regular e-mail address. A fair trade-off for being able to remain anonymous? If this is not technically feasible, then I would agree that postings should be restricted to regular, contactable, registered users. If you have an opinion that is so valid/important, why not have the guts to apply your name to it? The right to freedom of speech comes with a corrosponding responsibility!

[Phineas]

The vote tells me what I have thought all along. HAMS are a bunch of extremists. I belive that because this is a family board that certain things should be censored, however just because a person doesnt use their callsign or name doesnt mean they are disruptive people. Some people have good reasons for not disclosing their name over the internet. Some are just plain afraid.

All we have to get along, not agree with everything. This requires a certain amount of respect of people for who they are. Obviously, most of us only have respect for people who think like us. This especially piss poor for all of you vets out there that have to make it known what you put your life on the line for.

Sad.

Phineas
Anonymous today

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4sl @ May 08 2002,13:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">82% say NO to anonymous posting as of May 8th at 2016Z.

If this were a presidential election, they would be talking about the HUGE LANDSLIDE for 30 years!

73, N4SL (look me up, I'm a real person)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
But:

* Only registered users that are not "under hack" may vote.

I had to reregister using an alternate email address, because my callsign (reg'd 5/05) has no posting rights.

My crime was misspelling my email address.

Even after fixing it & emailing admin, it does not work.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

de kg6ejo, Ted

And yes, I'm a real person too.


Ted,

First of all, we don't manually approve new user registrations - a computer program does that. #When your registration email was undeliverable the system simply could not send you the necessary confirmation code.

Your next attempt to correct the email typo failed because we do not permit the same user name (callsign) to be registered more than once - a reasonable limitation.

Yesterday, we saw in your record that your email address was: eviltroll@f[bleep]kedcompany.com

This type of behavior, noticed by one of our administrators was deemed cause for disabling your account.

You were never NOT welcome to use our site. #Your initial typo apparently started a chain of events that led to your suspicion of our motives. #

"Never assume malice when incompetence could just as easily be the cause. #"

-fred #

[n8ary]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have also been hassled by those who do identify themselves. Are they "excused" because they identified themselves? I don't believe so.

Just because these people identify themselves does NOT necessarily make their post any MORE legitimate - nor does it negate the harrassment they have maliciously committed. Especially when it is clear that some of them have NO point other than to flame me/others because I may have a different view or disagree with their directive.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

They are NOT excused! They are ACCOUNTABLE for what they post. Accountability makes what I hear from someone more legitimate in my eyes. We all could use some accountability. That's why our country is such a mess. No one wants to be accountable for anything they say or do.

[n0xas]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Evil Troll @ May 08 2002,15:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
* Only registered users that are not "under hack" may vote.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Umm, OK, so maybe the results are skewed. #Call it 81% instead of 82.27%. #Heck, be generous, call it 80% or 75%... #no matter how you slice it, it's still a pretty sizable majority. #Of course, it's a free country, denial isn't a felony.

Dale

[wb0iip]

Hi Fred,

It looks like you really "Opened a can of worms". I agree that it is your site and you have the right/authority to do as you please. I respect the efforts you have obviously put forth in the past to be impartial and allow all viewpoints, and I hope you continue that effort.

Now for the idea that access to the forums be limited to "Licensed Hams", what an infantile idea!! The mere fact that a person has a Ham ticket does not automatically make him a forthwright and upstanding individual. I wish it did. It would however provide some modicum of identity and responsibility but this could just as well be obtained by requiring registered users to provide a valid address and phone number.

I personally will support any direction you take, but in my opinion requiring a Ham Ticket to gain access to this site would accomplish nothing with respect to maintaining high standards of content of the posts.

[w8ob]

Way to go Fred, Its your site and I think this is a great idea. If a person does not have the nad's to post his/her call and name then who wants to read it... Not me! We can hide behind the guise that it prevents spam and other baloney, but fact is I have taken a very serious no-spam policy here and will track down and continue to raise cain for spammers, currently my incoming spam level is a big fat zero. I cant say as how I ever have received spam from anyone scanning this site, as the way its set up it takes a little work to get the persons email address anyway. I enjoy this site very much the only problems I have ever had here was someone attempting to hack into the back door of my machine claiming to be qrz.com, Right now as I have last heard that young man is getting ready to visit the federal judge in NYC. Just keep up the great work. People are funny, you know they cry and complain about wanting protection and certain problems to get cleaned up but when It comes down to something like this or say the dayton hamvention wanting to inspect backpacks or not allow them, they cry again like babies that their rights are being violated. You can't have it both ways!!!!!!!!!

[w4pqk]

"Been There" has a point. #

Consider requiring valid ID info and assign those desiring it an anonomous "name" to sign their posts with which does not violate their privacy but which identifies them to QRZ.

This complicates things and if too complex, ban anonomous posts.

Jess

[nextsat]

I am one of those users who registered with a non license userid. #I didn't have a license and I was using QRZ.com. #In fact, the test questions enabled me to not only pass my Technicians exam but I went ahead and took my General at the same sitting and passed. #I wanted to start buying equipment plus I felt obligated to register since I was using the website everyday. #I suppose I should re-register with my call and I will. #The point is that there are some of us who register with non license id's but that doesn't make us abusers or losers.

[WB2WIK]

Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice.

I say, ban the anons, for now and forever.

The vote's in, the majority favors the ban.

Great site, Fred, congrats on years of fine work. Hopefully you'll follow the wishes of the masses.

WB2WIK/6

[N8PCA]

Ban the un-registered. Clearly not all un-registered users are lids. But there is no accountability if one will not register with a call sign. What are they afraid of? A skeleton in they're closet? If you register with your call sign.. you are clearly liable for your own actions. This seems to be a BIG problem in our society today. Many will NOT take responsibility for THEY'RE OWN actions.The poll that I took when I logged on today is very clear as to what the registered members want. 73' N8PCA!!

[KB9YFI]

I think that anonymity is not always a bad thing. #This is not "on air" and we don't have to follow the FCC's rules. #This is Fred's world and his say is final no matter what. #If he makes bad decisions and everyone goes away then Fred's world will be pretty empty. #Anonymous users might need to be banned from posting or at least quarantined into a separate area where anyone can post and not be allowed into other areas where only hams can post. #

I'm worried about the new and prospective hams who have lots of questions on how to get a license and where to get help and such. #If they can't post how can we help them? #I say let the non-hams in as long as they have a real identity such as a name or a real email account. #We don't want to turn our backs on the new hams who have not been issued callsigns yet and the prospective ones who need a boost to get their tickets.

Jim - KB9YFI
I wasn't always a ham but the things I learned here made we want to become one.

[AB8MI]

I feel that only users identified with a call sign should be allowed to post on the boards or the swapmeet. However, I feel that anyone should be able to view the site, as this site is a very good resource for many things regarding our hobby.

If your post is so controversial that you must hide behind a fake name, then I guess you probably don't need to post it. If I have something to say, I will just say it I don't need to hide behind a fake or misleading name.

Our forefathers didn't sign fake names to the documents they signed and they had a lot more to lose!

Again just my own opinion.

73
Wayne AB8MI

[kf4tqj]

Hi Fred,
# #I think that you have always gotten it right, and I trust you to do so in the future. ( The fact that we trust you ought to be enough to keep you on the straight and narrow.) The Supream Court may not know what pornography is, but I'm sure that you and all the rest of us do.
# #If a person doesn't want me to know who he or she is, then I don't want to hear what they have to say. I thank God that they have the right to say it, somewhere, but I also thank God that I have the right not to hear it if I choose not to.
# #Shall I have to choose to leave QRZ because of the content, or shall I choose to have limits put on that content. The lack of a question mark there was because to me, there's no question.
# #Just deal with it Fred. As you always have. This is a great site and I want to see it stay that way. I think you already know what you have to do. If you really want my opinion or vote, then I say just do it. NO NAME, NO POST.
KF4TQJ / George Elwood Fletcher, Woody to my friends.

[K9DON]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif This is a easy one. NO CALL SIGN " NO POST" If your not man enought to show who you are,then keep your opinions to your self. 73 de k9don

[AL2Q]

I think privacy is an important thing to guard on the internet, however requiring people to use th