DX Contesting

I have often wondered why contesting is not restricted to only a "portion" of each band that is being used for that particular contest.

It seems to me that when a contest is on, the people involved in that contest tend to spread themselves right across every band and this seems to deprive a large group of Hams from being able to participate in their chosen form of Ham Radio..ie..rag chew

Perhaps if we had each of the Clubs from around the country take a poll of it's members to see what percentage of Hams participate in contests and file the results with say QRZ. Upon completeion of the poll, examine the result and come up with a percentage of contesters and rag-chewers, then on the basis of the split, allocate the same percentage of each band to contesters and rag-chewers. For example, if 55% of Hams wish to enter contests, then allocate 55% of each band used in the contest for that use and this to be ONLY during the contest.

The percentage of each band to be used for the contest should be for EACH portion of the band as shown by the Band Plan. (ie 55% of the General Class freq. either the from the top or the bottom) once the figures are published from the poll, then a further poll could be taken on how the "Contesting Band Plan" could be implemented.

I have used the 55% figure as an example, I have no idea what a poll of Hams from all the clubs would reveal. But when I look at the comments on QRZ plus listen to how vocal some Hams get when discussing (and I did mean DIScussing not the shorter version, Hi) contesting I cannot help but think their HAS to be a way that would enable ALL hams to share the frequencies, even when a major world wide contest is underway.

I personally do not particpate in any contests, I do sometime jump in if I here a station calling over and over and not getting a reply. Perhaps that is not good, but I mean well. I feel I have contributed at least something and I hope the points or whatever they are trying to get helps their cause.

The hobby is for ALL Hams and we should be looking for ways to allow everyone to enjoy the hobby even when a big contest is happening, my hope is that someone who reads this comment will see a way to bring us all together so that we can all share the bands no matter what our preferred mode may be, contests running or not. Contesters have a right to enjoy what they do, and we all have to respect that as they must do to those of us who choose not to participate.

To the folks at QRZ I hope I am not out of line when I say a poll could be sent to you, if so, then my apologies, you have a great site, it is my first stop when I go online, keep up the good work, even those of us "Down Under" enjoy the info.

73's..de..VK2NW..Gary

73's de VK2NW...Gary

[w7uy]

I enjoy contests since this gives me a chance to work DX that is not normally available. #Try using the WARC bands which are off limits to contests.

I am more concerned with many nets using the WARC bands for county hunting and other activities which are more like contesting than rag chewing.

Hang in there.

[k0xu]

We have been told to use our bands or lose them. So now you want the people who do get on and use them to not use them so much. Where does it say that contestors have less right to use a frequency than rag chewers or county hunters? Maybe we should take a poll on where the traffic nets should be restricted to. I think by your standards they would be limited to a very narrow portion of the band. Contests tend to take up bandwidth because there are so many stations on the air at the same time. Also, most of the contests are international in scope. How are you going to inforce your band plan on operators in other countries?

This is one of those ideas that sounds good to some people, but is just not workable in the real world.

[wg7x]

Hi Gary,

Well, this topic will certainly get the juices flowing. There seems to be little, if any, middle ground between the contestors and the non-contestors.

Trouble is, your proposal is fatally flawed right from the start. How many Amateur radio operators world-wide even belong to a club? Club membership is not a pre-requsite for licensing in this country, maybe it is down under? Some countries probably require membership in either a local club or their national organization. This brings us to the second major flaw in your proposal. Band plans vary from country to country. If the various radio administrations around the world cannot even agree on a simple thing like that, how are they supposed to coordinate a contest-free band plan?

As one respondent already pointed out, constests tend to bring operators out of the woodwork. That is one reason why the bands are more crowded. Imagine, if you will, that all those operators, who seem only to come out during contests, were that active every day!

What would the complaint be then?

If contests were not popular, they would not exist. It's really that simple. Casual operations will continue to exist, but if simple rag chewing were as popular as you imply, the bands would be full to overflowing EVERY day, not just on contest week ends.

Now, before you toss that brickbat my way, let me say that I enjoy both activities. Some contests, such as the various state QSO parties bore me. So, I don't get upset when the bands are busy with a state QSO party, I find a clear spot and call CQ. Usually, someone will reply and we have a nice chat. I certainly don't let the contest activity drive me off the radio for the week end!

The reality is that there are actually only a few contests that tie up the bands from end to end. Field day here in the states would be an example of one of those... even though field day is a non-contest contest! #Even in the midst of field day activities, I have been able to find a spot to chat.



So lets see what the others say about this subject. If there were any way to poll every active ham in the world, I'm betting that contesting would still be allowed to exist as it does now.

73 for now, Gary WG7X

[wa2upq]

Hi Gary. I recently posted the article still on display here entitled “Rag-Crewing Under Attack”, and I think there were many replies and comments to it that support what you’ve said.

My sentiments are similar to yours. While acknowledging that all hams have a right to their personal joy from the hobby, it has to be on a tolerant and reciprocal basis. What disturbs me is the heavy-handed approach many DX hounds and contesters take to us rag-chewers, as though we had no legitimate right to be on the air at all, and are only being tolerated as a vestige of a bygone era #between contesting, which some seem to feel is the true purpose of hamming these days. There's nothing wrong with a good contest, and I like the satisfaction of a good DX catch too. But as things stand now, the ham bands are like battlefields on far too many weekends and for too long - just when most hams finally have a chance to get on the air. It's simply too much of a good thing and has gone out of control. Ham Radio has lost its balance.

To wax philosophical, I see a direct relationship between the rise in cut-throat competition and stress in the workaday world and the surge in stressful, cut-throat contesting and what I call “fanatical DXing”, in which the “me first and the hell with the others” disease takes hold in what I assume are otherwise rational and nice people. There's a subtle but important difference between DXing and contesting: one is a fascination with the technical aspects of propagation and the excitement of chatting with a fellow ham on the other side of the globe; the other is pure point-scoring. It's the latter that disturbs me.

Ham radio is supposed to be a relaxing and recreational activity, an island of fun in an otherwise insane world of stress, competition and one-upmanship. I want no part of that aspect of the hobby. All I want is a portion of the band where I can do MY "thing" on weekends in peace and quiet.

As for resorting to the WARC bands, why?! Back to square one on the rights issue.

Before someone gets excited, I will repeat what I wrote in my article: everyone has a right to pursue their aspect of amateur radio. No one is trying to deny them that. But others have their rights too.

I think your idea is basically a good one. But in the end, it will require a gentlemen’s agreement to be effective. But alas, where are the gentlemen?

73,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N8FXH]

After 19 Years of Operating I would be strongly opposed to any more restrictions on band useage...If you don't like contesting there are the WARC Bands. I go to 17 Meters regularly whe I am not contesting and one is on...As a Traffic Handler for over a decade, I would offer the rule of plus or minus QRM...If you really wanted to get away from signals go to one of the former novice CW Bands.

[AD6WL]

Here we go again. #Yes the bands are crowded during major contest because people are using the bands. #That is a good thing. #Right? #This issue keeps being brought up again and again. #Do we want hams to use the bands or not?

Have you ever heard of the WARC bands? #There are three of them and contests are not allowed there. #There are no "EVil Contesters" there. #Go there during a contest weekend. #Upgrade your radio if it dosn't cover the WARC bands. #Make simple antennas to cover the WARC bands. #I have worked SSB, CW, RTTY and PSK31 on the WARC bands. #I hear people complain because the WARC bands are dead, then turn around and complain that the other bands are to crowded. #I hear people complain! #Go to the WARC bands. #Use the WARC bands. #Have fun on the WARC bands. #I am sure everyone knows where the WARC bands are, but I'll go thru it agn. #
30 Meters: 10.100Mhz, CW, RTTY and data. #
17 Meters: 18.068-18.168Mhz, CW, RTTY, data, Phone, and Image. #
12 Meters:24.890-24.990Mhz, CW, RTTY, data, Phone, and Image. #

Most major contests are mode specific. #If it is a CW contest use Phone (AM, FM, SSB), SSTV, Satellite. #Do something different. Try a FM repeater on 10 meters. #If you have to use CW then all 3 WARC bands are good for CW. #Get it?
If it is a SSB contest you can use CW, PSK31, RTTY, MFSK, or you can try the WARC bands and use the appropriate modes there.

You see there is lots of space and some people would rather complain then try another band/mode that is very easy. #

Another novel idea is to work someone during the contest. #You can use a CW contest to improve your code speed. Or give a contact to a QCWA, FISTS, TEN-TEN member etc. #Collect numbers if you like or even work a new state, county or DXCC etc.

If none of this will satisfy you then I would have to recommend you QRT for the weekend. #Take the XYL/OM out to dinner. #Spend time with the family. #Surf the internet. #Put up a simple antenna to cover a WARC band. #Learn a new digital mode. #Read a book, watch TV. #Start up a new forum on QRZ.com about "Evil Contesters" and how rag chewing is being under attack(?). #Call a friend/relative on the phone. #Send me an e-amil. #Try using your local repeater or iLink, I don't #believe there are many contesters there. #

Well folks the main thing is to have fun with ham radio and don't cause intentional QRM to each other. #Oh, did I mention the WARC bands?

73,
de AD6WL, Jim

[DA1TNJ]

You think contesting is too much? Try operating in
a foreign country. There are contests for the sun
coming up, if it rains or if the wind blows.

Seriously, contesting has it's place. Field day was my
favorite however, being in a foreign country it's not
done over here, or at least I've not found it taking
place.

I simply give the contesters a call so they can get
some points and then I move on. One thing about
contests is if it's CW you can practice your receiving
by listening to them. Yep, some are pretty fast
especially when they send their call and "test".
I suspect those memory buttons on the memory keyers
get a work out.

Have fun everyone. It's a hobby and one that we should
enjoy instead of beating it up.

Hope to work ya on the bands.

73's

Mike
DA1TNJ/WB8TNJ

[wa2upq]

Jim,

Thanks for the technical details and comments. Glad you could ventilate. I'm sure, however, that we're all aware of the WARC bands, and that many if not most of us are set up for them and use them. The *point*, however, is one of principle and philosophy. Inviting rag-chewers to move to the WARC bands is tantanmount to saying "you may ride with us, but go to the back of the bus". Every ham has a right to choose their favorite band. And a gentle reminder that not all hamming in conducted only in the United States. What about those of us who would like to do some DXing, but for a RAG-CHEW?!

I'm not interested in getting embroiled in an endless debate either. But I do trust my senses and a 40-years overview of the hobby. Contests *are* too frequent.

What has happened to the high-flown principles of Ham Radio based on *communication* in the sense of dialogue among amateurs? Contests do not serve that purpose. The situation is out of balance and out of control. It's at "orgy" proportions and getting worse.

Peace.

73 and good DX,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ke5wj]

Ahhhh ... a subject that hams have no opinon on http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Personally, I participate in a few contests. I find it somewhat exciting and my operating skills always increase. I encourage anyone having trouble with CW to participate in a CW contest - the speed will increase dramatically. I learned a lot about operating trying to participate in RTTY and PSK contests, too. And contrary to what others may think, the obnoxious, poor operators don't do very well in contests. To say that they serve no purpose is too narrow a view. They obviously serve a purpose for those who participate or they wouldn't participate.

When I choose not to participate, I've alwys found other things to do on the air. For example this weekend, with 4 contests going on at the same time, I had several nice ragchews and worked 2 new countries - not in the contests, of course. I also puttered around with my antennas, etc. #

I think I've heard the same complaints for decades. Maybe longer, but I haven't been active for a century yet - although I hope to make that goal. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #I've heard people complain that

- contesting hones operating skills
- there's too much contesting

- the bands are too busy during contests
- the bands aren't busy enough in general

- DXing is fun, educational, etc.
- DXing is impersonal and should be banned

- 80m is too busy with rag chewers
- 80m is great for testing your DX skill

- 40m is too busy with SWBC
- 40m is the best all around band

- there are not enough new hams
- there are too many new hams without basic knowledge

- CW is the essence of ham radio
- CW is obsolete

- Participating in nets is a wonderful activity
- There are too many nets on the bands

- DX clusters are wonderful sources of information
- Using DX clusters is like cheating

So what? It just goes to show that ham radio is an activity that atracts lots of people with varying viewpoints. Where else can you get a conversation going between people from multiple countries, perfect strangers, any number of professions, interests, cultural backgrounds, etc.? And of course, with that variety comes differences of viewpoints, opinions, etc.

I say leave things well enough alone. Contests will die on their own if there is not enough interest, but I don't see them getting any less popular. Contesters will move to a narrower portion of a band if there aren't enough to keep contacts going at a reasonable rate. Simply wasting band spectrum does not contribute to a higher score. If there are so many ragchewers on the air, running stations that are well maintained and efficient, the contesters will find it's easier to contest elsewhere. No one would make many contest contacts calling CQ TEST on top of a ragchew net.

73 and see you on the air - contests or not,

Being a tech, I best not speak but I have heard this type of subject befor. I hear people on repeaters say there is to much, or not any usage of diffrent repeaters in a given area. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Rag chewers are concerned about being pushed to the back of the bus so your asking the contesters to go to the back instead. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Row vs. way in this subject. I am just happy to see that we have the bands to even use at all! When I upgrade to a general class I intend to see both sides of the subject at hand. PS; big words from the new kid, I think. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif 73's and God bless.

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ May 05 2002,12:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Jim,
1. I'm sure, however, that we're all aware of the WARC bands, and that many if not most of us are set up for them and use them.
2.The *point*, #however, is one of principle and philosophy.
3.Inviting rag-chewers to move to the WARC bands is tantanmount to saying "you may ride with us, but go to the back of the bus".
4. Every ham has a right to choose their favorite band.
5. And a gentle reminder that not all hamming in conducted only in the United States.
6 .What about those of us who would like to do some DXing, but for a RAG-CHEW?!
7. I'm not interested in getting embroiled in an endless debate either.
8. But I do trust my senses and a 40-years overview of the hobby. Contests *are* too frequent.
9.What has happened to the high-flown principles of Ham Radio based on *communication* in the sense of dialogue among amateurs? Contests do not serve that purpose.
10.The situation is out of balance and out of control. It's at "orgy" proportions and getting worse.

Peace.

73 and good DX,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
1. Obviously not everyone knows this or this thread wouldn't be going on agn.
2. Ahh Haa. #It's the principle. #"I could go to the WARC band, but why should I? #I WANT TO TALK HERE! #I don't care about them only me, this is what I want."
3. This is almost funny. #The WARC bands are not like real ham frequencies?? #They are only for second class or low life hams?? #Perhaps we should give them to the CBers or better yet No-Code techs would probably love to use them. #This is rediculous.
4. This is not true. #Contesters cannot choose to use the WARC bands for contesting, but any ham can use any of the bands for rag chewing, whether there is a contest or not. #That's right, your actually alowed to use any of these bands even during contest as long as you stay within the band plans and your license limitations of course.
5. #Well, I have talked to many DX on the WARC bands so I'm not sure what the point is.
6. Yeah, I may have to check with the ARRL and the FCC but I do believe that rag chewing with DX is permitted on the WARC bands also. #But you may want to veify this first. #hihi.
7. To late.
8. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and I respect and disagree with yours.
9. A dialoug amongst amateurs is great. #But so is contesting. #I enjoy contesting like I enjoy many aspects of ham radio. #The only thing that is more important than anything else in ham radio is it's use in emergencies. #There is nothing sacred about rag-chewing or contesting or CW for that matter. #I do enjoy all of them and many other activities in ham radio.
10. #Not at all. #If people only wanted to rag chew then contesting would die on its own. #If people didn't want to rag chew than it would also die off. #Neither of these is happening. #Contest are popular because hams are getting into them and having fun. #Hams are using the bands and making contacts. #This is a good thing.

To quote ON4UN "Contesting is the ultimate test for station and operators."

73, Jim
AD6WL

[kb9num]

I am not a contester either. I do field day with the club, and make a few contacts to make sure my equipment works. I thought this may come up from the contest today, and listened around a bit. From my QTH I heard heavy use in the General portions of the band, and little anywhere else. I also had a chance to get some good DX on 17 meters.

The WARC bands have already been suggested, and rejected by some. The other bands may have opportunities out of the General segments. Perhaps that may be a solution for some.

[na2a]

How many days a year do contests take up? We have 6 or 8 major contests a year. How many rag chews do we have per year. Kinda lopsided ain't it?

[AG6RF]

At least limit the contests on 10m to be below 28.6.

For DX, 10m beats the other bands, and 12m is too narrow.

Its really frustrating for the non-contesting ham to
be waiting for a weekend opening on 10m only to discover
that there's a contest going on all weekend and there's
no way I'm going to make a DX contact.

I guess I still don't get the point of contests: seems
that they encourage as many short QSO's per minute as
possible. Seems too obsessive for me.

[kc6ufe]

If everyone, contestors and non-contestors alike, just used good amateur practice, there would be no problems.
ie., why cant we all just get along?
Well, we all can just get along, if we want to...
kc6ufe

[n8ary]

I think contests are OK. #Sometimes there are people who are not courteous and that makes for a bad image of contests. #I think courtesy and LISTENING FIRST should be a priority in these contests, but I bet the people who can drown everyone else out get the most points. #

Perhaps QRP contests would be more challenging and fun? #We all need to share the bands and adhere to the "minimum power required to make the contact" rule, but we don't, do we? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg6emf @ May 05 2002,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At least limit the contests on 10m to be below 28.6.

For DX, 10m beats the other bands, and 12m is too narrow.

Its really frustrating for the non-contesting ham to
be waiting for a weekend opening on 10m only to discover
that there's a contest going on all weekend and there's
no way I'm going to make a DX contact.

I guess I still don't get the point of contests: seems
that they encourage as many short QSO's per minute as
possible. Seems too obsessive for me.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hmmm, is 10 meters your favorite band? #Perhaps we should limit rag chewers to above 29.000 only?

You won't find any difference between 10 and 12 for propagation. #And 12 has plenty of bandwidth for its activity. #I love to use 12meters when there is no contest going on, admitedly I like 17m beter than 12. #Seems to be a lot of activity on 17meters.

Perhaps you should try operating on the weekdays also. #Agn if 10 is open then so is 12. #Also there were a few contest this weekend and I tuned around the band and found plenty of space for rag chewing and DX contacts. #There are also plenty of DX stations during most contests.

If you don't like or can't comprehend why others may enjoy contest than that is ok. #No law saying you have to particpate in a contest if you don't like. #The vast majority of people can't understand why we like ham radio. #It makes no sense to them. #Yet we enjoy it, and yet within our own community some hams don't like to accept other peoples activities. #Does this make sense? #Agn there are many different activities within ham radio and most hams don't like to do all of them. # But I think we should have some respect for each other and accept that others like things that we don't. #What about working a DX pileup. #You sit there and shout until you get a 599. #Rag chewing with a DX is usually limited to heavily populated ham areas like JA or VK etc. Did anyone have any nice QSOs with the K1B folks or did you just get a 5nn tu? #Or how about the VK9ML? #

To Quote ON4UN agn: "While you can be very successful in DX-ing with a simple station complemented with an excellent operator, you can only achieve top-notch results in international contesting with a well-engineered station and with the best operators."

What is wrong with improving your station and operating skills? #And contesting is a great place to test them out. #If you don't desire to take it to this level or compete in contesting that is fine. #I don't mind one bit. #I can fully see why some don't want to compete in Contesting. #Just like I can see why some individuals don't like to run Marathons or Compete in Ironman triathlons. #It makes no sense to some, but to others it is a lot of fun and a challenge.

73, Jim
AD6WL

[w8qf]

While I am not much of a contester I am not to prowd to take advantage of them for new DX contacts.The big contest are not very frequent,but the small QSO Parties are.The forign contest are not realy a problem either.I would however like to see more curtosy durring the contest like listen before transmitting and asking if infact the freq. is in use.The 5 or 6 major contest realy bring out the worst operating in to many folks.I like listing to the contest and occasionaly partisipating in them,and it would be nice to see better operating practices being polished as well as making as many contacts as one can.Some may not hear the bear foot stations so it might be a good idea to run up the electric bill a little so your presents would be better known durring the contest.Just my thoughts on the matter.AE8U Dave

[kt6kt]

1. #Contersters have no respect for non-contest qso's and will operate anywhere, anytime, anyhow to get their point.

2. #Is a contest every other weekend necessary?

Serge
kt6kt@juno.com

[k8dd]

Changes to the original statement are in bold.

I have often wondered why those not contesting are not restricted to only a "portion" of each band that is not being used for that particular contest.

The feeling is probably the same on both sides of the contesting fence.

[n4sl]

Debate summary so far:

Non-contesters are whiny crybabies with poor operating skills. Most still live with their mommies and wet the bed. Their human rights have been violated because they are forced at gunpoint to use the WARC bands to ragchew by the evil contesters.

Contesters are brutish thugs who trample the rights of the many innocents in their obsessive quest for world domination. They run 10KW spark gap rigs just to keep the ragchewers from continuing their endless discussions of physical ailments and how the garden is doing. Their favorite off-air pastime is kicking the puppies of orphans.

"Hey you kids, get the hell off my lawn!"

73, Steve N4SL

[wa2upq]

With reference to the comments above:

Well, here comes the usual and predictable “violence”. It is typical of that competitive aggression I referred to before. It’s a sterling example, in fact. It’s also an interesting case of “projection”, in which the victim is turned into the perpetrator – a popular tool of propagandists. It’s probably also more a mirror of the speaker’s psychogram than that of the addressed. Children use it as a weapon against their parents. Rush Limbaugh is a past master of the technique, too, and uses it constantly against anyone who doesn't share his narrow view of the world.

Please re-read what I have said in both this and the other article on rag-chewing. I stick to it. What I and others have stated is balanced, fair and non-violent. It is a point of view - you know, "there are at least two sides to every debate" kind of thing?!

As for wetting the bed and crying to Mommy, that is outright offensive and insulting. Another demonstration of the contester mentality (also manifested in kilowatts, dead carriers and blowing into microphones?). It’s a childish remark that requires an equally childish reply: I have traveled the world as a journalist and broadcaster. I’ve seen people die, and I’ve had guns pointed at me. I was nearly arrested in Africa for “spying” because I took a picture of the post office there. I narrowly escaped being shot in Liberia after the coup, and have the intervention of the UN to thank for my life. I have interviewed Mafia bosses, and lived to tell the tale. I have climbed the Alps. I could go on, but I’ll stop here. Enough childishness. What was that again about wetting pants? That *was* pretty tacky.

There is very widespread irritation with too many contests taking up too much frequency space. It’s a valid and justified perception shared by many of us - a *great* many. The complaints that have been registered here and elsewhere are rational, measured and intelligent – just like the majority of rag-chewers I've met. Most of them go deep - often VERY deep.

My own rag-chewing subject matter and that of many others I’ve dialogued with ranges from world travels to audio processing to flying saucers to Ayurveda to shortwave broadcasting, and to the nature of the Universe, just to name a few. The other day I talked for an hour with a 98-year-old ham who had just finished the 5th day of a purification water fast. He said it is what has kept him young and keen. We talked about his life and view of life. That, friends, takes an ability to think and to express one’s self - admitedly rare today. But that’s individuality. That’s dialogue. That's content. That’s a real QSO. I don’t find that kind of substance in contests, just jealousy for those who really *do* have something to discuss.

73,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ

[w6th]

Well, well, I finally am hearing both sides and although it doesn't take much skill to send 599 or is it "5nn" and then a number, it does bring activity to the ham bands. I am not a contester, but do get in there and look for a rare dx and work them, or one that is dx. #The purpose of the warc bands was to allow contesting to operate as such #and those not in favor could still operate on warc bands. It is now known as a hobby so why fight it. No way is there going to bring any changes, no matter what. So, I suggest and take an old fool's advice,"grin and bare it" and be satisfied with what we have, it is better to have had and lost than to never have had at all.
# # # # # # # # # # # #
# # # # # # # # # # #73, # # # #w6th

[wa2upq]

To W6TH:

I know what you're saying is reasonable and seemingly realistic. I think, though, that what we're asking for is nothing more than a reduction in the number and frequency of contests, that's all. The ham world is currently very top-heavy in favor of contests. I'm residing in a country that has had peace for 500 years, and where 4 language and cultural groups live peacefully together and feel as one. The magic formula is tolerance and mutual respect. That's what we need in ham radio today.

As for the resignation part of your comments, I can't help but ask: Where would the United States be today if the founding fathers had thought that way, not to mention what would have happened if Hitler had won the war?

It's really all the same. Just the magnitude of the issue is different. Or as Winston Churchill said: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance".

That applies to everything, including ham radio.

73,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[wa2upq]

MattBeers (nice, safe cover name),

You must be a true genius. You’ve never met me, you know nothing about me, we have never spoken, you know nothing about who I am and what my background is. Yet in spite of that, you’ve got me pegged; you’ve got my number. The hatred is dripping off every single letter and punctuation mark.

I’m not a masochist – you got that one wrong. I’m out of here.

Great work, Rush. But what did it achieve, except to indulge your already inflated Animus (look it up)?

BTW: Have you checked your blood pressure lately? Maybe you should change your diet.

Bob
HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ

[K7RME]

Gee whiz, if we back off and look at this from a more global perspective, it almost looks like life in the real world, doesn't it? I was a teacher in the public school system for 18 yrs and watched the behavior degrade to the point where I said, "if I see these guys carrying guns, I am out of here". I hardly had the words out of my mouth when that happened. I left the public school system as soon as I could get a job elsewhere. I think I was seeing a mirror reflection of what was going on in society.
Am I seeing a mirror reflection in ham radio of what is going on in society now? I fear the answer is yes and I also fear that my efforts to stop it will come to the same end as they did in education.
I do the same in ham radio as I do in life - keep as far away from the dangerous and unpleasant parts as I can and enjoy the parts that are left for me. And, I try not to think about the time when there is no place left for me.
Partition the bands for contesting? Great idea but I think that will come to the same end as "let's make a lane for slow traffic and a lane for faster cars". Have you driven on our busy streets lately?
Rudeness, violence, and attitudes of "me first, and the hell with you" are a part of our world today (and probably always have been) so find your corner and enjoy the part that you can!
Wen
K7RME

[n4sl]

If you didn't recognize my post as the stunningly obvious humor that it was, sir, then you need to relax. A lot. Seriously.

Steve N4SL

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4sl @ May 06 2002,07:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you didn't recognize my post as the stunningly obvious humor that it was, sir, then you need to relax. A lot. Seriously.

Steve N4SL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Humor? #What? #This is ham radio there is no humor here! #Only Rag Chewing about the weather, my garden, and how my arthritis is acting up. #And of course talking about how contesters and no-coders are the downfall of ham radio.

Besides that your post was the best so far.

73.

Well, it can be irritating when you just want to rag chew a little bit, and the whole band is covered with contesters.

For honing your operating skill, the only two activities that seem to help are contesting and traffic handling.

Contests also provide an oportunity for clubs to do an operating event. Contests are usually a lot of fun for a club, and less boring than a special event, where you may not be able to generate much interest. There is nothing worse than making few contacts, and contests generally allow a club the oportunity to make lots and lots of qsos. This gives new hams a chance to get those first qsos under their belt. By the way, ragchewing is not something that works well for a lot of new hams, as it is an art, and new hams just can't think of anything to say in most cases. The contest format is just great for this, as it resembles what passes for conversation in day-to-day life in these modern times. For those of us who enjoy a challenge, contesting is great. It is true that the top contesters have hot shot stations, but you can get on the air with a very pedestrian rig and make plenty of contacts.

So I would like to summarize by saying that new hams can learn to contest and sharpen up their ham skills quicker than a new ham can learn the art of the rag chew.

Being known to chew the rag myself, I think this is the real problem, not to many contests, but nobody taking the time to encourage ragchewing with the new hams.

[K4JSR]

Everyone who has paricipated in this thread is a contester. This has been nothing more than a
>>P*SSING CONTEST<<! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Cal K4JSR Please feel free to flame away.
I happen to like Rush--I have one
every time I meet a new friend.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ May 05 2002,22:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">With reference to the comments above:

Well, here comes the usual and predictable “violence”. It is typical of that competitive aggression I referred to before. It’s a sterling example, in fact. It’s also an interesting case of “projection”, in which the victim is turned into the perpetrator – a popular tool of propagandists. It’s probably also more a mirror of the speaker’s psychogram than that of the addressed. Children use it as a weapon against their parents. Rush Limbaugh is a past master of the technique, too, and uses it constantly against anyone who doesn't share his narrow view of the world.

As for wetting the bed and crying to Mommy, that is outright offensive and insulting. It’s a childish remark that requires an equally childish reply: I have traveled the world as a journalist and broadcaster. I’ve seen people die, and I’ve had guns pointed at me. I was nearly arrested in Africa for “spying” because I took a picture of the post office there. I narrowly escaped being shot in Liberia after the coup, and have the intervention of the UN to thank for my life. I have interviewed Mafia bosses, and lived to tell the tale. I have climbed the Alps. I could go on, but I’ll stop here. Enough childishness. What was that again about wetting pants? That *was* pretty tacky.

There is very widespread irritation with too many contests taking up too much frequency space. It’s a valid and justified perception shared by many of us - a *great* many. The complaints that have been registered here and elsewhere are rational, measured and intelligent – just like the majority of rag-chewers I've met. Most of them go deep - often VERY deep.

My own rag-chewing subject matter and that of many others I’ve dialogued with ranges from world travels to audio processing to flying saucers to Ayurveda to shortwave broadcasting, and to the nature of the Universe, just to name a few. The other day I talked for an hour with a 98-year-old ham who had just finished the 5th day of a purification water fast. He said it is what has kept him young and keen. We talked about his life and view of life. That, friends, takes an ability to think and to express one’s self - admitedly rare today. But that’s individuality. That’s dialogue. That's content. That’s a real QSO. I don’t find that kind of substance in contests, just jealousy for those who really *do* have something to discuss.

73,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The fact that you replied to this in a serious manner shows just how you missed the point of his humor. #It was a joke! #Get it? #Go back reread and try again. #I don't know what was funnier, his original post or the fact that you replied to it in such a manner. #

Your like some kinda james bond, eh. #You are my hero. #I could care less if you invented the internet. #You probably did that in between wrestling aligators and killing sharks with your bare hands.

Thank you defining a real QSO. #Others can learn from you. #We are all out there wasting our time enjoying ham radio in our own way when we should have been listening to you and learning how to conduct a REAL QSO! #Perhaps you can write a book and enlighten us all.

73

[W7LGK]

Hi Gary,

Isn't it amazing how the self centered, egotistical, cause of the problem contesters seem to tell us to shut up and go to the bands that they can't go. Which means if they could, they'd be on the WARC bands as well. The hell with everyone else. At no time did any noncontester every say to ban the contests, just give the noncontesters some room to operate as well. The only time I've hear such responses like those of these contesters is back in CB......You don't like my radio...turn yours off. Very intelligent response. This is why we want code requirements and stiffer entrance exams....to keep selfcentered, egotistic, and rude people of the bands. I hope that something will come of you suggestion, even if it only opens the door to real constructive conversation to this problem. Keep it going Gary.

73's.....Lonny - W7LGK

[k8cpa]

as far as contesting goes, you gotta fight fire with fire....

as they used to say, back when Ham Radio was a REAL MAN"S HOBBY...

"It takes 3k to stay.... 5k to open..."

If you don't want the contesters to come to your frequency, you gotta turn all the knobs to the right!

(my best Big Al (k4oka) impersanation)



"Come back when you get on the BIG RIG BOY! HO! HO!"
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K4JSR]

It looks like this >>P*SSING CONTEST<< has gotten
far too rough for us older hams with prostate problems!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif :!
73, and still "Rushed" K4JSR

[KG4EAW]

This is ridiculous,so ridiculous I can`t believe I`m leaving a reply!!!Almost as ridiculous as the notion to take back 11 meters from the "mongrels"!!!We all have our favorite bands,modes and so on.I am not much of a contester at all but I will try and work the contests if I`m around the shack when one is taking place.I also have found that there is even "space" on the bands for me if I want to call CQ and have a "ragchew" QSO when the contests are going on.What is the fuss all about?I have read the WARC articles and I agree that this is a valid "escape" and as far as "we can come along but we have to take the backseat" that`s bologna.I have recently discovered 17 meters and it`s just as good a band as 20 and 15, maybe even better.I also have just discovered 10 meters for CW and me being one of those bad,bad slow coders it has been a great band to practice with folks by way of real life QSO`s.Hey put up an antenna and have fun!!!!!!

[W9JCM]

I would have to say that contesting has its place. BUT, its been common practice for quite a while now to run way over legal limit YES WE CAN TELL GENTLEMAN! and you can see a operators signal 8KHZ! This is why its impossible to have a "rag chew" qso when a contest is going. And I will be damed if your moving me off the band to the warcs. The warcs arent worth a crap a 11pm at night. 30Meters? AHH bla no thanks. #If you power hungery jerks whould learn how to tune your rigs/amps and run a clean setup we might all be able to co-exist on say 40 meters at 11pm during a contest , just think rag chewers and contesters getting along in one ham universe WOW!

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AD6WL @ May 05 2002,12<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here we go again. #Yes the bands are crowded during major contest because people are using the bands. #That is a good thing. #Right? #This issue keeps being brought up again and again. #Do we want hams to use the bands or not?

Have you ever heard of the WARC bands? #There are three of them and contests are not allowed there. #There are no "EVil Contesters" there. #Go there during a contest weekend. #Upgrade your radio if it dosn't cover the WARC bands. #Make simple antennas to cover the WARC bands. #I have worked SSB, CW, RTTY and PSK31 on the WARC bands. #I hear people complain because the WARC bands are dead, then turn around and complain that the other bands are to crowded. #I hear people complain! #Go to the WARC bands. #Use the WARC bands. #Have fun on the WARC bands. #I am sure everyone knows where the WARC bands are, but I'll go thru it agn. #
30 Meters: 10.100Mhz, CW, RTTY and data. #
17 Meters: 18.068-18.168Mhz, CW, RTTY, data, Phone, and Image. #
12 Meters:24.890-24.990Mhz, CW, RTTY, data, Phone, and Image. #

Most major contests are mode specific. #If it is a CW contest use Phone (AM, FM, SSB), SSTV, Satellite. #Do something different. Try a FM repeater on 10 meters. #If you have to use CW then all 3 WARC bands are good for CW. #Get it?
If it is a SSB contest you can use CW, PSK31, RTTY, MFSK, or you can try the WARC bands and use the appropriate modes there.

You see there is lots of space and some people would rather complain then try another band/mode that is very easy. #

Another novel idea is to work someone during the contest. #You can use a CW contest to improve your code speed. Or give a contact to a QCWA, FISTS, TEN-TEN member etc. #Collect numbers if you like or even work a new state, county or DXCC etc.

If none of this will satisfy you then I would have to recommend you QRT for the weekend. #Take the XYL/OM out to dinner. #Spend time with the family. #Surf the internet. #Put up a simple antenna to cover a WARC band. #Learn a new digital mode. #Read a book, watch TV. #Start up a new forum on QRZ.com about "Evil Contesters" and how rag chewing is being under attack(?). #Call a friend/relative on the phone. #Send me an e-amil. #Try using your local repeater or iLink, I don't #believe there are many contesters there. #

Well folks the main thing is to have fun with ham radio and don't cause intentional QRM to each other. #Oh, did I mention the WARC bands?

73,
de AD6WL, Jim[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I see a lot of bad feellings here. #Let me clarify what I have posted b4. #

There really arn't that many major contest a year. #I mean contests that take up an entire band. About 8 a year. #If during these major contest you want to talk on 40, 20, 15, 10 meters then that is your choice. #That is fine with me. #I have no problem with that. #But, you just have to accept that there will be QRM. #Lots of QRM. #During major contest I put up with lots of QRM. #If you want to operate virtually free of QRM then you may wish to try the WARC bands. #I'm not saying you have to use the WARC bands. #My orignial post was only recommendations on ways to avoid QRM, not a demand that you only use WARC bands or other modes. #

The orignal poster was wondering why there are not portions of the band that are contest free. #Well, the powers that be have done even better and have established that these WARC bands wil be contest free, so that non-contesters can go there if the contesters are causing to much QRM. # He doesn't have to go there. #He can stay on the other bands. #But I don't agree that portions of these bands should be contest free. #This is #my opinion. #To be honest during major contest I have trouble finding a clear frequency so I can get a run going. #There are many QRP contesters. #I give these hams lots of credit, it's hard to operate in that kind of environment with only 5 watts. #They are trying to bust out of the QRM and be heard, but there out there enjoying the ham bands. # #

QRM should never be intentional. #Some of it is. #I have heard non-contesters bragging about how they are f#$%ing with contesters by turning their amps on full blast and using max audio proccessing and HiFi audio you can hear 5kc away, and getting real close to some contester. #I have at times been jammed and called every name in the book by non-contesters. #And, I have had many problems with other contesters. #I just move on. #And I can say I have never intentionally jammed anyone. #You will also find that most contesters are courteous and ask if the freq is in use. #Do they all? NO. #Are all non-contesters courteous operators? NO. #I think the percentage of bad ops among contesters and non-contesters is probably about the same. #If you scan around looking for bad operating you will find it. #It is easier to spot them during a contest because they are all there at once, while rag-chewers are more spread out over time.

I know this will not change anyones mind, and it is not intended to. #The fact of the matter is that contesting is not going away and there are portions of the HF band that are contest free. #If we can't operate in this environment without causing so much hate amongst ourselves then maybe we should look for new hobbies or let the FCC sell off the frequencies. #I don't know, I'm just rambling agn.

73, Jim
AD6WL

Where did this quote come from? #"The Radio Amateur is CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others."

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The warcs arent worth a crap a 11pm at night. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I wish I had known that before. Then I wouldn't have made the QSOs in Europe and South America I have over the past month. Just had a couple over the weekend. (100 watts and a flattop dipole)

[ke5wj]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9JCM @ May 06 2002,19:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... And I will be damed if your moving me off the band to the warcs. The warcs arent worth a crap a 11pm at night. 30Meters? AHH bla no thanks.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK, that means there's more space for the rest of us. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Let's see around 11 PM local on the WARC bands I have recently worked K1B, 9K2HS, LY3MR, G4FUF, YU1AAO, OM3QQ, SP4NI. Before that was VP6DI, XR0X, VP8GEO and I could go on and on. There were plenty of stateside QSO's in between and many of those guys were rag chewers. And all of those were with 90 watts or less, some QRP, and an indoor antenna.

Sure glad to learn those bands aren't any good, but I'm glad you'll leave the WARC bands for us. That is truly being a considerate operator. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Good luck, good DX, and very 73,

[k3hz]

I also enjoy contests and a rag-chew. Very little differentiates these activities, and if I put VK into someones log for the very first time (happens almost every week!), then I will take the time to swap names and details, even though it may cost a few Q's. I'm keen to promote goodwill, as many of the non-contest Q's I make still go into the log, and hopefully they do not feel dumped or used. The local VK2 nets on 28.320 and 28.477 happily go unhindered even during contests anyway.

OK your sked freq may be unusable, but there are other parts of the band that are always available. I guarantee our 80m SSB (3500~3700) band will be free from contest QRM !! When our 75m band opens up in 2004 to 3774~3800, that will get over the single channel DX window.

VK is in fact quite rare in contests, even when operating from Sydney as VK2CZ. Using VK8AA, 44 VK's were contacted out of 1002 q's, but I suspect the callsign was the reason. Only 11 VK's were contacted during 2001 CQWW SSB (out of 1500 for vk2cz).
Last weekends Italian ARI contest, I managed just a single VK contact, as I needed the country multipler.

Most interesting was my contact with H44A it took 20 minutes to exchange and complete - 5/9sigs with a lecture and short ragchew ;-), but worth the mult.

VK2NW is in none of VK8HZ, AX8HZ, VK2CZ or VK8AA logs ! am happy to ragchew... (ragchew Q's are also logged if in doubt)

Cheers,
David Burger VK2CZ / VK8HZ
Chartered Professional Engineer - Telecommunications
Sydney

[KD5SHW]

Well I'm not real sure what contesting exactly is but I'll put my 2 cents in. There is one question though, "Do we really want the government to get involved?" I think that amateur radio operators have done a great job regulating ourselves. Pretty much the best thing we can do with our limited bandwidth is to wait for an open frequency and when it is open call CQ. I also suggest that we do our best to use the ARRL band plans

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5SHW @ May 06 2002,19:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well I'm not real sure what contesting exactly is but I'll put my 2 cents in. # There is one question though, "Do we really want the government to get involved?" #I think that amateur radio operators have done a great job regulating ourselves. #Pretty much the best thing we can do with our limited bandwidth is to wait for an open frequency and when it is open call CQ. #I also suggest that we do our best to use the ARRL band plans[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sometimes it takes a new ham to bring a point home. #Yup, hams regulating themselves. #Thars a novel idea. #I remember one time during a major contest. #I had been working for a few hours when some guy tells me that my voice keyers signal is much wider and hotter than my normal voice. #I check my settings on the radio. #All looks OK. #I try some other adjustments with him listening to monitor my signal. #Finally I realize that my computer's audio output was way to high. #He works with me until I get my digital voice keyer(DVK) to match my natural audio. #Problem solved. #It was hams helping each other. #If he had been rude and just come on freq yelling at me then I would've told him to get lost or just ignore him. #If I had told him to mind his own bussiness or don't worry about it then I would have been operating with a wide signal & causing unecessary QRM. #Yeah, I lost some operating time but it was worth it. #Oh the guy was not in the contest he was just operating a few Kc up. #Lesson learned. #The computer audio setting is set one way for DVK and another for my Grandaughter's 1st grade CD. #I have to remember to change them before a contest. #Other lessons learned...?

Has anyone ever heard of: "Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communictations and technical phases of the art."?

[W4TYU]

THINK GLOBAL. There is no way that the message would reach all of those that participate in contests.

While you are at it, propose a limitation on the band width used by the Expeditions to rarer locations. They will have up to six transmitters operating at the same time. The stations calling them will use perhaps a 15 kc or more spread. This type of activity goes on for a week or so effectively keeping you from rag chewing.
Each of us has fun in their own manner.

The ole man

[9v1sm]

Hi Gary and others following up this thread,
That was an interesting article eventhough I do not whole heartedly support the idea. Ham radio is a hobby and contesting a sport like fox hunting etc. Personally I am not an avid contester...but occassionally I do "walk in" to get a kick out of it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I love to ragchew too..but coming on air from this part of the world means pile ups. I then tend not to be selfish and try working as many as possible..as someone at the other end might happily close down the station at the end of the day having worked a Dx. Pileups are little different from contesting as the QSO is pretty restricted.

Lets take it this way, its a hobby, a relaxation so why not enjoy it-be it ragchewing on CW, contesting, fox hunting, SSTV, RTTY, PSK 31 or whatever.
Have fun folks and promote international fraternity
73
Sasi
9V1SM / VU3SNM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ May 05 2002,11:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi Gary. I recently posted the article still on display here entitled “Rag-Crewing Under Attack”, and I think there were many replies and comments to it that support what you’ve said.

My sentiments are similar to yours. While acknowledging that all hams have a right to their personal joy from the hobby, it has to be on a tolerant and reciprocal basis. What disturbs me is the heavy-handed approach many DX hounds and contesters take to us rag-chewers, as though we had no legitimate right to be on the air at all, and are only being tolerated as a vestige of a bygone era #between contesting, which some seem to feel is the true purpose of hamming these days. There's nothing wrong with a good contest, and I like the satisfaction of a good DX catch too. But as things stand now, the ham bands are like battlefields on far too many weekends and for too long - just when most hams finally have a chance to get on the air. It's simply too much of a good thing and has gone out of control. Ham Radio has lost its balance.

To wax philosophical, I see a direct relationship between the rise in cut-throat competition and stress in the workaday world and the surge in stressful, cut-throat contesting and what I call “fanatical DXing”, in which the “me first and the hell with the others” disease takes hold in what I assume are otherwise rational and nice people. There's a subtle but important difference between DXing and contesting: one is a fascination with the technical aspects of propagation and the excitement of chatting with a fellow ham on the other side of the globe; the other is pure point-scoring. It's the latter that disturbs me.

Ham radio is supposed to be a relaxing and recreational activity, an island of fun in an otherwise insane world of stress, competition and one-upmanship. I want no part of that aspect of the hobby. All I want is a portion of the band where I can do MY "thing" on weekends in peace and quiet.

As for resorting to the WARC bands, why?! Back to square one on the rights issue.

Before someone gets excited, I will repeat what I wrote in my article: everyone has a right to pursue their aspect of amateur radio. No one is trying to deny them that. But others have their rights too.

I think your idea is basically a good one. But in the end, it will require a gentlemen’s agreement to be effective. But alas, where are the gentlemen?

73,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah, we heard you beat it to death before. #Rag chewing under attack, what baloney. #It sounds to me like contesting under attack. #Perhaps we should limit rag chewing to certain portions of the band. #Because they cause so much QRM to everyone. #There is no differnce between ragchewing on the air and AOL and YAHOO messenger. #Oooooh, but rag chewing is an art.?! # No it's not. #Its talking plain and simple. #You wanna shove you lame a$$ opinions on us but claim that rag chewing is the most honrable thing in ham radio. #Bullhockey. #When I was first licensed in 1823, rag chewing...was this...and that...and blah blah blah. #I would rag chew with tesla and marconni for hours about how I invented the internet and how contesters are ruining ham radio for the real purpose or radio...talking about my garden. #hmmmm. #

Good bye.

[ag4hy]

i don't have any problems with contesting, matter-of-fact, i do, on occasion, drop in and give a "5/9 or two and the like, how-ever eronius,hi hi.
has anyone heard of the am, fm, and fm repeaters on 10m? i seem to have found them, and they (the repeaters) are great, i usually can scare up several contacts (read qso's ) on the repeaters , also have had a good many qso's on am, and the fm portion, during contest mind you, and also on 12 m, and 17 m, i enjoy these also too, course that is just my ho, and it is satisfactory to me, also there is "am" on 80m also (i believe it's 80m; may be wrong, have been before) so all is not lost. some where, some how, there is room and granted one has to look for it, and it takes a "little" work to do it, but the place,time is there. So relax, take 5, (read; minutes) take a deep breath, and look around, you'll find room, just mho.
peace brethern http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
willie ag4hy

[K0DD]

Hello Gary,

History, what a funny thing? #Since the beginning of ham radio contesting was the sport to test and hone message relaying skills. #Contesting wasn't a problem when 100% of the available ham population was active relaying messages.

Once other methods became popular for message relay contesting became just a sport. #It has evolved into straight competition with the winner granted the next year's bragging rights.

Now with millions of hams worldwide available to fill the bands and the popularity of DXing, during contest weekends the BANDS AREN'T BIG ENOUGH as it is.

Myself as a Has-Been contester, and now a Talk to his other Has-Been buddies operator I too wish there was more room on the bands. #I realize everyone is looking for a clear frequency and that activity for the available spectrum is too high.

I totally support the MAJOR contests and feel they have the right and need to exist. #I can accept operating on the WARC bands and to make my token QSO's in the tests during those weekends.

It's all the baby regional garbage that generates total band clutter during EVERY STINKING WEEKEND between major contests and in my opinion should be eliminated. #

I have thought that for every minute of my 31 years on the radio.

Everyone have a nice day.

73's

Bob K0DD

[W0BKR]

Well, here is my slant and if you don't like it, don't bother with flames or editorials. I think that yes, there many contests on. I don't know where the number of 6-8 comes from, but that is assinine to think there are only that many contests! (i.e. CQ WW, ARRL Sprint, New England Contests, etc.). Some are ARRL sponsored, some are CQ sponsored, some are international nature, some CONUS.

If CQ and ARRL could combine contests, which in essence are almost the same, that would reduce some of it. It's not that there are so "many" contests, but the duration of the contests. Courteousy ? Come on!**@# Get a real grip with reality!

How many times have I sat and listened to a contester sit .5 khz off a QSO with 2.5+ kw signal spalatter with the sole intention to "dominate" that frequency. I seriously doubt any "contester" is that willing or concerened with "good amateur practices" when it comes to "winning or losing" over the competition and any QSO nearby, well, too bad. Collateral casualities!

The only "happy" solution I can foresee is to limit the duration of a contest to a 12 or 24 hour stretch where you don't occupy the entire weekend from Friday 0000 UTC to Sunday 0000 UTC. Is there middle ground ? I doubt it. Telling someone to get off a 20 meter Ragchew and go to 17 meters is stupid. Do you honestly know whether the poor chap has that capability or whether propagation will work for him/them? Why should they move, just to appease the contest gods/egos ? That sounds really indicative of the attitudes out there. That is always the rationale it seems, "you move" not me!

As to suggesting that non-contesters go above 28.7 or so, why not conduct the contest up there instead ?
It seems the factors usually weigh in favor of the contesters. Taking a poll, I seriously doubt, would generate any motivation to do anything. I would venture to guess that out of 100 amateurs, 10 might be contesters. The rest, work DX, but don't contest. (PS: I do contest, but I take into consideration any net, QSO, whatever that might be within 2 kHz or so and locate myself appropriately, else, hunt and pounce). Do I play to win....no. I play to enjoy. Sometimes I submit a score and other times I don't bother.

I don't think this issue is so easy to "fix" but I do feel that those that desire to "ragchew" or whatever, other then contest, don't have any support in the community even though they have the same rights to operate as contesters.

But then again, who cares. This is an age old topic, just as No-Code, DX Operator behavior/Pile Up control, etc. Some things will continue to be debated, complained about, argued, etc., but never resolved!

[WF7I]

I've only been a ham for 17 years, not 40 like many of you. #But what I've noticed in this short time is an increase in rudeness and hostility in the hobby. #I'm not a sociologist so I'm not in a position to draw conclusions that the entire society is experiencing this trend. #Sometimes though, it does seem this way.

There's also a lot of pent-up anger about these issues. #This is just a HOBBY, for crying out loud! #Do people who fly model airplanes or rockets get so angry over their sport? #What about bird watching? #Sometimes I think we lose perspective about what it is we're doing and participating in. #I agree with one of the earlier posts that the hobby ought to be an escape from the insanity and rudeness of the real world, instead of an extension of it.

I participate in contests, I rag chew, I hunt for DX, and I also homebrew equipment. #One could launch into a tirade about the only true hams are those who build equipment, not those who rag chew OR contest!! #So it's all about perspective. #

I think the original idea of providing a segment of the band for a contest during a contest could be a good one, just as we have gentleman's agreements for things like DX windows or calling frequencies. #People do not HAVE to abide by the agreements, but most will to keep from stepping on toes. #The organizers of the contests themselves could restrict the operating to various segments of bands instead of entire bands, as a courtesy. #Or, we could just all learn to be more courteous and share the bands with each other, which seems like the best solution to me, given that the density of operators in a restricted band segment for many contests would make the contests very unworkable and introduce way too much QRM. #Perhaps contest organizers need to be more self-policing of the activities of contestors, and disqualify overly rude operators? #Just a thought.

Of course, the same applies to other users of the bands. #Just because you are not happy with a contestor does not make it right to throw carriers on them, or make rude comments to them. #Or just because you've always had a sked on frequency x, and someone happens to be in a QSO or operating a contest on frequency x when the sked/net comes along, does not mean you have the right to "kick them off". #I think we all know these things, but for some reason people are so uptight and angry that they lose all common sense!

I think if we all focus on getting along, realizing that this is just a hobby, and treat others the way we like to be treated, then we will all be happier with the hobby. #Just my 2 cents. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kc0isu]

If we trimmed the bands down to, say, 50% for contests, what would happen? Perhaps the top half of the band is set aside. I can imagine somebody would complain about being "forced" out of that half of the band. "By what right must I leave this section of the band." Same argument as between WARC and non-WARC bands.

You were never "forced" off of anything. You just happened to hang around a very popular section. Same story as how you drive home from work. You have every "right" to take Main Street, but everyone else wants it too at 5pm. WARC bands were set up to guarantee you have an alternate path to choose from. It's still your free choice of where to hang out.

If anyone is curious about the tone of hostility observed over the last few years, don't forget that we didn't have this type of forum until recently to discuss the issues. Today, with Internet boards, talk is cheap, uhh, typing is cheap-er. Magazine columns don't have space for the number of comments we have today, and filter out overly rude statements. Don't write off ham radio as being more or less aggressive too quickly. You need to examine ALL the facts, including your basis of observation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W0BKR @ May 07 2002,10:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know where the number of 6-8 comes from, but that is assinine to think there are only that many contests! (i.e. CQ WW, ARRL Sprint, New England Contests, etc.). #Some are ARRL sponsored, some are CQ sponsored, some are international nature, some CONUS.

Courteousy ? #Come on!**@# #Get a real grip with reality!

How many times have I sat and listened to a contester sit .5 khz off a QSO with 2.5+ kw signal spalatter with the sole intention to "dominate" that frequency. #I seriously doubt any "contester" is that willing or concerened with "good amateur practices" when it comes to "winning or losing" over the competition and any QSO nearby, well, too bad. #Collateral casualities!

The only "happy" solution I can foresee is to limit the duration of a contest to a 12 or 24 hour stretch where you don't occupy the entire weekend from Friday 0000 UTC to Sunday 0000 UTC. #Is there middle ground ? #I doubt it. #Telling someone to get off a 20 meter Ragchew and go to 17 meters is stupid. #Do you honestly know whether the poor chap has that capability or whether propagation will work for him/them? #Why should they move, just to appease the contest gods/egos ? #That sounds really indicative of the attitudes out there. #That is always the rationale it seems, "you move" not me!


I don't think this issue is so easy to "fix" but I do feel that those that desire to "ragchew" or whatever, other then contest, don't have any support in the community even though they have the same rights to operate as contesters.

But then again, who cares. #This is an age old topic, just as No-Code, DX Operator behavior/Pile Up control, etc. #Some things will continue to be debated, complained about, argued, etc., but never resolved![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Talk about assinine. #Go back and reread what was posted. #It was stated that there are about 8 MAJOR CONTEST a year. #This past weekend the New England QSO party ,the Ten-Ten, and the ARI contest were going on. #All on the same weekend, and there was plenty of space to operate on. #On any band, and any mode! #You see none of those are major contest! #

The situation dosn't need a fix. #Obviously people want to operate these contest or the bands wouldn't be so crowded during MAJOR CONTEST! #Yes, I realise that some people are to stupid to put up a dipole for 17meters or other warc bands. #The fact of the mater is that they just don't want to. #They have every right to operate on any band and mode they choose. #So just quit crying about the QRM and operate. #If you want 20meters then shut up and operate there. #Just stop whinning like a little baby. #You know there's gonna be qrm but you would rather cry about it and cause more qrm than try sumtin different. #That is totally your choice.
You have every right to operate there, then just stay there.

As far as rudeness goes, it's definately not limited to contest ops. # it goes on all the time. #its just when the bands get crowded then tempers start to flare. #Just this past week, K1B was operating on 14195khz and of course operating split. #Out of no where some jerk starts calling CQ on 14198khz. #A very strong signal. #People politely asked if would QSY. #HELL NO! #I have a right to the freq. #Im not gonna move! #I'll be damned if your gonna run me off the bands! #He went on for long periods at a time with very high power station. # Oooooh, I'm sure he must have been a contester. #Of course it was during the middle of the week.

Bye

[KAMR]

Surley you've some chores to do around the house when a contest gets under your skin.

Write a letter to your Senator and tell him you would like to have his seat when it goes up for sale, er I mean reelection.

Go help down at the senior center with the elderly.
Go down to your local Hospice and help a dying child.

Or better yet listen to a contest on the radio and go nutz.

Bob KAØMR

[KA9VOI]

What is a Ham Radio Operator?

A CB'er with a callsign. I don't think that the attack should be on the contest or those involved in the contest as much as it lies with those that are operating illegal. If you a bolt of guilt, then you know who you are. Mine is bigger and better, well five watts was not enough for the chicken band either. If I had a dime for every illegal amp out there, I'd be a rich man. See the problem does not lye with contest, when an operator can be heard 3 to 4 kc's each side of him, well what does that tell you.

Then lets talk about how I have returned to ham radio after a six year break, and it's still the same. Yes the contest weekend can be a pain, but so can no contacts on the WARC bands or any of the other bands for that fact.

So to compain does no good, take the weekend and do something else, look at all the modes we have to operate, if nothing else most hams have a computer, try SSTV, it's great on the bands, PSK31 is another. Lets use some common sense about the amateur bands, get along or pass them along. There are alot of Rubber Ducks and Teddy Bears looking for more operating space to run their big rigs.

Enjoy the hobby.

In essence though, contesting is a part of ham radio, and always will be. This comes from a ham whose does not contest, but just wants to have fun. Maybe you should have asked for a time restriction rather than a frequency allocation. Be interesting to see what would happen with that one.

73's

Mathew
KA9VOI

[pinguine]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wg7x @ May 05 2002,10:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi Gary,

Well, this topic will certainly get the juices flowing. There seems to be little, if any, middle ground between the contestors and the non-contestors.

Trouble is, your proposal is fatally flawed right from the start. How many Amateur radio operators world-wide even belong to a club? Club membership is not a pre-requsite for licensing in this country, maybe it is down under? Some countries probably require membership in either a local club or their national organization. This brings us to the second major flaw in your proposal. Band plans vary from country to country. If the various radio administrations around the world cannot even agree on a simple thing like that, how are they supposed to coordinate a contest-free band plan?

As one respondent already pointed out, constests tend to bring operators out of the woodwork. That is one reason why the bands are more crowded. Imagine, if you will, that all those operators, who seem only to come out during contests, were that active every day!

What would the complaint be then?

If contests were not popular, they would not exist. It's really that simple. Casual operations will continue to exist, but if simple rag chewing were as popular as you imply, the bands would be full to overflowing EVERY day, not just on contest week ends.

Now, before you toss that brickbat my way, let me say that I enjoy both activities. Some contests, such as the various state QSO parties bore me. So, I don't get upset when the bands are busy with a state QSO party, I find a clear spot and call CQ. Usually, someone will reply and we have a nice chat. I certainly don't let the contest activity drive me off the radio for the week end!

The reality is that there are actually only a few contests that tie up the bands from end to end. Field day here in the states would be an example of one of those... even though field day is a non-contest contest! #Even in the midst of field day activities, I have been able to find a spot to chat.



So lets see what the others say about this subject. If there were any way to poll every active ham in the world, I'm betting that contesting would still be allowed to exist as it does now.

73 for now, Gary WG7X[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You are so right about the middle ground between pro and contras. The real problem is here in Europe where a contest occurrence means a total disaster for someone wanting to chew the rag. Should you need an explanation for "disaster" under these circumstances, please be my guest for the next contest.

Contest mean activity in a band so the more activity the more credibility but we shall not forget and disrespect the other people right to expression, whatever the band.

SSTV has a nice status across the bands and should serve as example, there are frequencies most of the times busy - therefore not very often trespassed during contests. Why not designating an universal "ragchewer" call/QSO frequency for each contest band? That would be very nice and civilized though.

I think the real problem as essence for this subject is the common sense.

Best regards,

Nic - YO3GNO http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

With reason contests are a public nuisance. The fact that contests are a nuisance to so many hams (because so many hams are interfered with contests) is a powerful argument to stop contests immediately! Contests have destroyed style, manners and all good operating techniques. One of the worst outgrowths is the fifty-nine-pestilence. Drive these trouble makers out of our bands!

73 Bert, DJ7YE

[W0BKR]

To address some of KG6ZZZ's (not a real call) anonymous postings:

You use frequently, in addressing anyone with opposite views such as yours, words like:

1. Crying
2. Whining
3. Crybabies
4. Stupid

I could go on. This is the typical response from an "individual" who doesn't bother to read the post(s). No one wants to do away with contests. For your info, there are more then "8" major contests. You had better define "major" in your future flames. Maybe then the number can legitimately be narrowed down.

There are valid suggestions that address this issue of contests pushing individuals off the bands, rudeness, etc.

As to your K1B example. I heard that incident, and you neglected to tell the whole story. Individuals told the "gentleman" to "QSY #######!"....QSY..QSY..QSY....etc. I suspect he got fed up with it and gave you a dose of your own medicine.

First off, no DX or anyone else requires a 5 khz window around their transmit frequency to operate. If he was a good operator, he would have slid up a kc or two. No one would know the difference. I heard individuals running off a chap on 192 as well, same method, name calling, tuning, mike scratching, etc.

If you can, try to stick to the post topic now and then, and leave the personal attacks at the door. Everyone enjoys reading them more. Else, they laugh at the ignorance displayed.

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dj7ye @ May 08 2002,02<!--emo&:0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">With reason contests are a public nuisance. The fact that contests are a nuisance to so many hams (because so many hams are interfered with contests) is a powerful argument to stop contests immediately![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Let me see if I got this correct. #Since there are so many people participating in contest then we should ban contest? #And, ban them immediately? #This makes sense to me. #

I believe that to eliminate crowding of the bands that the WARC bands should be opened for contesting use.

AD6WL

[kv6v]

If contesting is so good at "honing" ones skills as an operator, it would seem to me that restricting contests to a narrow (25khz window per band) would make them even more challenging, and would thereby serve to further improve the skill level of the operators in question. #It is such a big competitive challenge, but only the people in the contest care about its outcome. #This seems like a win/win situation to me.

The contesters get "LESS" spectrum #for the contest, thereby increasing the overall difficulty, and making the points more valuable. # The "whiners, crybabies, rag chewers, QRPers, causual operators and everyone else" can then have enough room to whine, and cry in. # This should make everyone happy.

Personally I can't think of a more exciting way to spend a weekend than pounding the plastic on my digital voice keyer, pausing only long enough to utter "five nine also".

There will never be enough spectrum for the "Type A" contesters and "everyone else". #Don't even complain about either since you are too poor to afford a receiver with 5 IF stages and 1.6khz crystal filters in each one.

You probably don't even really deserve to be on the air if you can't even afford a five thousand dollar receiver and an eight thousand dollar final amplifer anyway.

Go get on the WARC bands, and if those aren't good enough for you, try the CB.


If your skills are so finely honed, why do you need to QRM an #entire band to further hone those previously finely honed skills? #It would seem to me that the better you were, the "LESS" room you would need to operate. #

To me it seems like they just keep wanting MORE when they really need LESS.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W0BKR @ May 08 2002,09<!--emo&:0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I could go on. #This is the typical response from an "individual" who doesn't bother to read the post(s). #No one wants to do away with contests. #For your info, there are more then "8" major contests. #You had better define "major" in your future flames. #Maybe then the number can legitimately be narrowed down.

There are valid suggestions that address this issue of contests pushing individuals off the bands, rudeness, etc. #

As to your K1B example. #I heard that incident, and you neglected to tell the whole story. #Individuals told the "gentleman" to "QSY #######!"....QSY..QSY..QSY....etc. #I suspect he got fed up with it and gave you a dose of your own medicine.

First off, no DX or anyone else requires a 5 khz window around their transmit frequency to operate. #If he was a good operator, he would have slid up a kc or two. #No one would know the difference. #I heard individuals running off a chap on 192 as well, same method, name calling, tuning, mike scratching, etc.

If you can, try to stick to the post topic now and then, #and leave the personal attacks at the door. #Everyone enjoys reading them more. #Else, they laugh at the ignorance displayed.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you can, try to stick to the post topic now and then, #and leave the personal attacks at the door.

Hmmm, does this sound familiar.

[KB1GYQ]

Doesn't the law require that the MINIMUM power be used? Why is "everyone" running a full gallon?!?

WHY IN HECK WOULD ANYONE WANT TO GET A GENERAL CLASS OR ABOVE LICENSE?!? EVERY TIME I READ/HEAR THE HATRED FOR THOSE WHO DON'T USE MORSE CODE AND THE SPITEFUL DISCOURTEOUS CONTESTERS AND ANTI-CONTESTERS, I JUST WANT TO SAY THE HECK WITH IT ALL AND SEND THAT TICKET BACK TO THE FCC! THANK G-D THAT Y'ALL DON'T OPERATE IN THE BANDS THAT I DO; AND EVEN IF YOU DID, IT IS A LOCAL PROBLEM ONLY, NOT SOMETHING FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD TO HEAR!

Just for the record, I am friends with quite a few contesters; and I personally don't care how you want to enjoy radio.... just everybody try being a bit more courteous before there is no interest left in the hobby and the sprectrum gets sold to the highest bidder.

[n4sl]

This is a serious email, I'm not trying to cause trouble. Flame me but don't bore me please.

"...THANK G-D THAT Y'ALL DON'T OPERATE IN THE BANDS THAT I DO..."

Hey, why don't you hear all this alleged nastiness?

Because it's a severe exaggeration of reality, it hardly ever happens. I contest all the time and I don't hear this stuff going on. The whining is on the internet, I literally never hear nasty talk on HF, especially on CW. I've had people tell me to QSY because I was on 'their' frequency and I always say "OK OM, 73" and QSY. I know full well what they were thinking before AND after and I know I left a good impression.

Real ham radio is not on the internet. It's on the radio and people there are far more courteous than you would be lead to believe by reading all these nastygrams.

{old woman on porch, waving a TV Guide}: Don't make me tell you kids to stay off my lawn again!

Steve N4SL

[N8PCA]

I dont use HF except for monitoring SW stations. However, I have listened to these contests once in a LONG while. I can understand the Ham who would like to see this contest activity confined to a particular portion of each band. But, it seems this would squeeze "too many operators" into an even smaller portion of the spectrum. Solution: Bigger Ham frequency allocations!! Yeah right... N8PCA

[KW8W]

Without wading through the 70+ replies to this ever-ongoing topic I am hoping that I am not duplicating someone else. First, if we use some sort of percentage of use to make a band plan, based on the amount that I operate, I will claim the entire 40 meter phone band for ARRL Sweepstakes SSB! Seriously though, the number of major contests that consume an entire segment (cw or phone) of a band and/or bands is relatively small when compared to the times there are no major contests. I think the benifits far outweigh the minor inconvenience of not being able to ragchew four weekend a year.

[W0BKR]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.

Yes, you do sound very familiar. Perhaps I should identify your "real" callsign....

What a tag team event this has turned into. Hi.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KC2JHP]

To quote the great philosopher Rodney King,
"C-can't we all just... get along?"
Lighten up, kiddies! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Hey, contesting is fun.
Rag-chewing is fun.
CW is fun.
Guess what?
Ham radio is FUN.
Raising your blood pressure about this issue is not FUN.
(But I must say I enjoy reading all the nattering nabobs out there!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Tim KC2JHP

Oh Dear, what have I done now?...(tongue in cheek folks)

Yep I committed the cardinal sin (oops, maybe that word is not too cool right now either) but, anyway, I hope my comments were not taken as being anti anything. I have only experienced some minor problems in the past with contesters, and also rag chewers too I might add.

My posting was only meant to stimulate comments and perhaps "constructive" comments on how to maximise the band use with the hope that everyone might feel able to participate in their favourite mode.

If I have erred, then so be it, but please do not think my meaning was to detract from the DX'ers.

I do enjoy QRZ, I do enjoy exploring ways to better our hobby.

73's to Ya'all

Gary
VK2NW

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (vk2nw @ May 10 2002,16:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh Dear, what have I done now?...(tongue in cheek folks)

Yep I committed the cardinal sin (oops, maybe that word is not too cool right now either) but, anyway, I hope my comments were not taken as being anti anything. I have only experienced some minor problems in the past with contesters, and also rag chewers too I might add.

My posting was only meant to stimulate comments and perhaps "constructive" comments on how to maximise the band use with the hope that everyone might feel able to participate in their favourite mode.

If I have erred, then so be it, but please do not think my meaning was to detract from the DX'ers.

I do enjoy QRZ, I do enjoy exploring ways to better our hobby.

73's to Ya'all

Gary
VK2NW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Gary, first off, I think your just a little to apoligetic, but that's not really a bad thing.

You may have read my post. #But, I do believe that there is plenty of room on the bands during any contest. #Just because someone can't operate on thier favorite frequency whenever they want dosn't mean the band is overcrowded. #There are many different bands and a whole lot of exciting and different modes and activities in ham radio. #I know most people have their favorites and that is great, but we just need to understand that not everyone wants to do the same thing every time. #There is no one band that is totally used up all the time or even every weekend. #And someone did mention the WARC bands. #These bands alone are a new frontier for many hams.

I think this thread may be coming down now, but don't worry because in a few weeks a new thread will come up on the same topic and it will be hot and flaming agn. #

73, Jim
AD6WL

[kb3eaa]

Actually, the "gentlemans agreement" is already in place. #It's called the "FCC Rules", and we all signed on to that in the beginning. #Problems are created by those who break those rules, and contesters/DXr's alike give themselves a bad rap overall, every time some inconsiderate stunt is pulled. #

I had checked into the Maritime Mobile Service Net last year, during a severe weather event in the Atlantic. #The net was attempting to pass priority traffic to a vessel at sea, concerning #medication needed, either for the crew or those at home, I cannot recall. #Anyway, an American contester broke into 14.300 calling CQ. #The net informed him of the situation, and asked him to QSY. #

His reply? #"NEGATIVE, THIS IS A CONTEST WEEKEND, AND CONTEST RULES". #He greatly interfered with the net, and I observed that it was very difficult to pass the traffic because of him. #He continued calling CQ, ad nauseum, and actually picked up an American station who wanted to work him. #I know that no one owns a freq., but this was illegal. #This was harmful and willful (and dangerous) interferance. #Contests can be great fun, but it's called the Amatuer Radio Service for good reason. #

Now this happened about a year ago, and I have not forgotten. #It only took one time to hear something like that, to leave a bad impression. #This was not the last time I have heard similar behaviour from contesters. #The fact that DX'rs can also be rude is no answer to this sort of thing. #We can have a great time, etc., but when things get rough, either in weather at sea, or at home in an emergency, it's time to use skills gained contesting for the common good.

Note that my gripe is not contesting or contesters. It's not crowded bands or the like...that's just life in 2002, so we develop and use narrow signal modes and do our best to get along. We can all get in each others way sometimes, that's not the problem. I suppose we'll have a slew of ugly DX'r stories to follow this, Oh well.

[km5yl]

Chill out guys! Good Lord! You would think that this is a group of two year olds fighting over who got the *spot in the sandbox*! I am a contester, dx'er, ragchewer, traffic handler, operate ssb and cw, provide communications at public service events,and participate in ARES and SYWARN. Contesting has helped my traffic handling skillsimmensely and really helped improve my cw. As far as *major* contests, there relly aren't that many that take up a whole weekend~ARRL DX, CQ WPX, CQ Worldwide DX and the Sweepstakes (count them, that's 8). I run 100 watts (can't run any more anyway) and I do try to be a courteous. There are a lot more serious issues out there that we can be addressing.

KM5YL

I feel that contesting is truely for LIDS!! If you doubt this statement, just tune around during ANY contest and listen to the rude and crude operators that don't give a hoot who they step on to get that stupid contest point!!!

Contesting should certainly be contained within some sort of a band plan and not allowed to run amuck throughout the bands and QRM'ing everyone in the specrum!!

[K4JSR]

THIS WHOLE ISSUE COULD BE RESOLVED BY HAVING

A GIANT RAGCHEWING CONTEST!!!!

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73, Cal K4JSR

[n4sl]

And the winner has the LONGEST QSO!

[n6vuj]

Ok here it is as I see it.

For us working guys (not retired yet) the only real time we get to operate is at night and on the weekends so the contesting weekends really tend to spoil it for the non-contesters, mainly because of a few bad apples!

What tends to get me is that some contesters will sit right on top of an existing QSO, Net, or Round Table and even after being asked repeatedly to QSY.

Some Contesters will even go as far as to purposely jam the existing stations by doing extended tune-up's (I thought that's what dummy loads were for), sending random cw characters, etc.

I never used to mind the contesters, but lately Many of them have just plain gotten rude.

Now I firmly believe that it is not all of them and I'm sure many are courteous and true gentlemen, but it's the ones that are inconsiderate and rude (you know who you are) there the ones who ruin it for everybody (contesters and non-contesters alike).

I honestly can not see the real pleasure in winning a contest if you did it by being rude, inconsiderate, breaking the rules and or even the law, Where it the true pride in that?

Kind of like getting an A+ in school by cheating, but I guess some people really don't have any honor.

I think that ALL hams should get a copy of the Band Plan and keep it handy so were not rag chewing in the DX Windows, interfering with the SSTV guys, etc.

And we all Need to Listen First to Make Sure the Frequency is Open.

I think it's time for all of us to be Man Enough to play fair and respect the other guy.

If this message offends you oh well, maybe to need to re-check your priorities... It's just a Hobby!

Remember it's not that you've won it's how you won.

[AD6WL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (km5yl @ May 11 2002,17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Chill out guys! #Good Lord! You would think that this is a group of two year olds fighting over who got the *spot in the sandbox*! #I am a contester, dx'er, ragchewer, traffic handler, operate ssb and cw, #provide communications at public service events,and #participate in ARES and SYWARN. #Contesting has helped my traffic handling skillsimmensely and really helped improve my cw. #As far as *major* contests, there relly aren't that many that take up a whole weekend~ARRL DX, CQ WPX, CQ Worldwide DX and the Sweepstakes (count them, that's 8). #I run 100 watts (can't run any more anyway) and I do try to be a #courteous. #There are a lot more serious issues out there that we can be addressing.

KM5YL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You make some very good points. #And I agree with you that the majority of contesters are very courteous. #For some people those 8 weekends a year (4CW, 4phone) are just to much time to loose for ragchewing. #If you operated CW during phone contest and visa versa that would only be 4 weekends a year. #I guess some find it easier to complain than to try another mode or even a different band. #Unfortunately there are a few bad contesters out there, but there are definately some bad ragchewers out there also. #I think there is plenty of bandwidth for both to get along. #All we need to do is be #more courteous to each other.

73, Jim
AD6WL

[w3sy]

I think Jim AD6WL has the right idea -- Ham radio offers a vast variety of frequencies, modes, and activities. If you are interested in just ONE of each of the above, yes, you will find yourself squeezed from time to time. I have ofen heard people refer to QRM on "my ragchew frequency." Huh? YOUR frequency? I don't think so.

I enjoy some contests. I enjoy ragchewing. And DX chasing. I like CW and SSB. I like 20 meters, and sometimes I use the WARC bands. The WARC bands are perfectly good ham bands, and they were designated as contest-free zones. So where is the beef? If you have a regular sked on 14.250, why not tell your buds to meet on an alternate WARC frequency when a contest is on?

I do know that there have been times when I tied to hold a "run" frequency during Sweepstakes (with my rock crushing 100 watts) and had to contend with a couple 30-over-9 yahoos setting up shop 500 Hz away, not for an actual ragchew, but for a QRM session where they basically say NOTHING for an extended time, other than how they have a right to blast away in spite of "them dang contesters." (On 75 meters, such ops TEND to run AM for some odd reason.) Hey, fine -- I don't get into pissing contests with SKUNKS. I turn the dial and go back to what I'm doing.

Point is that MOST contesters try very hard not to QRM any QSO's in progress. MOST! I will always ask if a frequency is in use before jumping in. Yet I have often had to put up with deliberate QRM from "militant anti-contesters." (Mostly on SSB, almost never on CW.)

There really is room for every interest. We have to remain flexible. When there is a contest on that I do not wish to participate in, I move to another mode or band. Big world out there, eh?

73,
Steve W3SY

[k8uh]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k8cpa @ May 06 2002,09:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as far as contesting goes, you gotta fight fire with fire....

as they used to say, back when Ham Radio was a REAL MAN"S HOBBY...

"It takes 3k to stay.... 5k to open..."

If you don't want the contesters to come to your frequency, you gotta turn all the knobs to the right!

(my best Big Al (k4oka) impersanation)



"Come back when you get on the BIG RIG BOY! HO! HO!"
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I hope you don't expect anyone to take you seriously as a radio operator, after a post like that.