Mexico Border Deaths [Archive]

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 08:26 AM

Hi guys! I recently moved down here to Tucson... I been hearing alot about all these border activist groups trying to prevent deaths from occuring in The Southern Arizona Desert by patrolling it and building water stations... I am getting a bit involved..

Anyway I have a bit of Emergency Services expirience and was thinking of ways to apply some of my skills to come up with a solution that would reduce deaths and not comprimise National Security....

my Idea (which actually is being used by the US Border Patrol in principle) is to buy radio beacons (Aircraft ELT's?) and portable power (batteries + solar panels) and add these to the water stations in the desert and also make free standing beacons (help stations) in the desert - That way those who need medical assistance can get help...

The group I have been working with wants cell phone towers - Which is great (and should be implemented ASAP)?
The good part is you do not have to roam the desert to find a rescue beacon (im guessing they will be hard to find) - you would just call for help with your cell phone
- The only problem is if the person is lost - Then they may have a problem unless they can put in towers that can include signal data (Direction Find?, Tower Location to 911 Dispatch, Etc....)

Anyway I was curious to see what you all had to say and I am also excited to see if I can actually use stuff from my nerd hobby to help people...

Oh yeah and I wanted to also find a way to add strobe light s to these stations... I have some clues but lets see what you have to say...

-KD7LDH

WA5KRP

11-11-2005, 08:38 AM

LDH,

You're a troll, ain'tcha? I have little regard for folks who give aid and comfort to illegal anybodys. That includes illegal aliens.

WA5KRP
Texas

LB1UE

11-11-2005, 08:41 AM

National Security.

So you plan to terminate 500.000 illegal mexs in LA ?

---

/pF in ebony or was it ivory or even irony mode.

Yes I'm bored and this is a silly joke! ;)

WA2ZDY

11-11-2005, 12:04 PM

Let me get this straight. #Your "group" wants cell towers put up (by the taxpayers? #Who?) so the ILLEGALS can call for help at taxpayers' expense? #And these ILLEGALS have cell phones? #Poor folks with no money but they have cell phones so they can call the gringos for help. #What a deal.

By the way, go for it with the ELTs. #Of course the FAA will want to have a few words with your group when the ELTs are illegally activated by the ILLEGALS, but that's just incidental.

How about this plan I have for dealing with the problem. #

The ILLEGALS stay home, that way they won't be illegal, they won't be stuck in the Arizona desert and the US taxpayers (that's you and me in case you'd forgotten) don't have to foot the bill. #

Now maybe you really want YOUR tax dollars to go to helping these folks. #That's mighty noble of you but it's not what I want done with MY tax dollars. # So you should watch some late night TV, get a few phone numbers of "save the children," "save the illegals," "save the downtrodden of the earth," and maybe even "save the whales." #You can send them ALL the money you want. #I'm sure they'll be glad to take it off your hands. #

Of course if you really must give your money away, you could give it to a charity that helps AMERICANS. #(Oh, I'll bet you never thought of that. #Well here, I'll put a pitch out there. I'm diabetic, have been since 1974, and it's starting finally to kill me. #That's right, I can't work anymore and I usually ride in a wheelchair. #Not only that, I'm an AMERICAN and I worked my whole life from age 14 - legally. #Donate to the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation, ok? Maybe some kid - American or otherwise - won't have to wake up every day knowing that for all the times in his life he'll prick his finger for blood tests 5 times a day and all the injections he'll give himself, maybe he won't be like me when he's 44. Or, you can put up cell towers for the illegals. Sounds like an easy choice to me.)

N8CPA

11-11-2005, 12:52 PM

As far as I'm concerned, if you in any way facilitate illegal entry into this country, you are as criminal as the indocumentados. You ARE a threat to national security. I hope you get arrested!

k6pme

11-11-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,01:26)]Anyway I was curious to see what you all had to say and I am also excited to see if I can actually use stuff from my nerd hobby to help people... #
My vote is for land mines and machine gun nests. They can come here the right way or face the wrath. It won't take them long to figure out whats going on. Once they do then they will quite trying to cross over and therefore there is longer a need for any of this sillyness. Problem solved. See how easy that is?

They are coming here illegally, that make them foreign criminals. End of story.

It's a fact of life that hispanic's are a part of our society. They are hard workers and are a major part of our agriculture and construction industry. Most that I have seen and worked with are hard workers and some are very talented. I have nothing against them. I do have a problem with the way they get here. If you want to save lives then why don't you put your efforts into changing the way the system works. Allow them to come here and work LEGALLY, they can pay taxes and SS like the rest of us.

K3XR

11-11-2005, 02:13 PM

Have you considered offering your skills to the Minutemen Project. You could greatly reduce deaths in the Arizona Desert by reducing the number of illegal aliens crossing the desert.

W7WV

11-11-2005, 02:29 PM

Our county, Cochise, just south of you is one of the highest illegal entry points in the US.
And according to our paper, they are trying to limit the Minuteman folks via permits and such now. It appears that the county is going to make moves to stop them from coming.
I am not about to help the illegals. When and if I see them I hold them for the law.
They are a burden on our state's medical and other resources. Do you have any idea how much money the Border Patrol and ICE spend yearly here. You would be shocked with just the car and truck expenses.
We need to prosecute the people that employ these people with the laws that are on the books and quit making this process a joke by just returning them so they can come over again, sometimes the same day.
As far as I am concerned, leaflet the border and tell them in 72 hours anyone crossing will be shot!

KD6NIG

11-11-2005, 02:59 PM

Putting up towers/cell phone or help or otherwise just makes what they are doing legitimate.

Its borderline legitimate now because of the way we handle the situation currently.

I would not support anything that would make illegal immigration seem even more legitimate than it is seen today. #My first advice to people who choose to 'strike out' across a desert without water-DON'T. #If you choose to do so, then you are entirely responsible for your own actions.

If you implement this plan, then these same stations should be placed along every hiking trail in the US. #Everyone that goes hiking, mountian climbing, or anything similar is expected to be PREPARED. #Yes, some of them have to get rescued, but also usually bear the costs of said rescue after it occurs.

If our citizens are expected to take reasonable precautions, then illegals who aren't supposed to be here are definetely on thier own also.

Our immigration process, though not the easiest, is not too bad of a system. #Sure, you have to WAIT, sure, they may only admit a certian number of people per year, but it is our system. #If you want to be here, use the system and you can be here legally and enjoy all of the freedoms and assistance that could be rendered to you. #My parents immigrated here from Germany and went through the process to be here. #They did not insist on being here illegally and being taken care of. #They were not the only ones in my family who went through the process. #I don't mind you being here, but follow the process in place, and be here legally, and pay your fair share. #Thats all we're really asking for here.

There are plenty of other places that take border security quite seriously, and I'm afraid to say, if this keeps up, especially if terrorists are using this same pipeline, some of what you are saying above (machine gun nests and razor wire with shoot on sight orders) will probably become reality.

We have a good process in place that has been used for many years. Use the process, come over legally, and you can get your drivers licence too-don't expect us to hand one to you either. If we came to your country and demanded many of the things you demand without being legal, I'm sure you would laugh in our faces, yet you demand the same of us every day.

A little respect goes a long way. I don't have a problem with you being here at all-but I don't like the fact that you're not here legally. Start the process and be here legally, and be proud to be an American.

WA2ZDY

11-11-2005, 03:02 PM

I think it could indeed be seen as an invasion by an enemy force, particularly considering the economic damage they do and the numbers in which they come over. And it's a problem in more than just the American southwest. Right here in Freehold NJ a substantial percentage of the population is Mexican. Nobody knows how many are illegal, but there's little doubt it's a lot of them.

It seems harsh to say "shoot 'em" but given what damage they do . . . any other enemy would be repelled by force at the borders, that's for sure.

KE7DFP

11-11-2005, 05:06 PM

To come into this country illegal, or smuggle bodies into this country illegally, is a Felony. Welfare fraud is also a felony which will be perpetuated on a massive scale once they cross. You are aiding and abetting felons, and your are an accessorry to a felony. #You should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. #What's worse, your crime will only facilitate larger numbers to cross, thereby an even higher death rate. By your actions, you will be #responsible for those additional deaths. #Your beacons will quickily be noted on maps and used by coyotes, drug smugglers, and other scum and undesireables, to assist the commission of their crime, and increase their profit margins. #The solution to end the deaths of those that get themselves killed during the commission of a crime, is for NO ONE to cross the border except through a legal checkpoint. This and only this will drop the death rate to ZERO. #Anything not working towards that goal, is not only illegal, but despicable.

n2nh

11-11-2005, 05:43 PM

Ya pays ya dime and ya takes yer chances. If you know there's a desert there, you know what it can do to you.

KC0W

11-11-2005, 06:04 PM

I also would like to help the illegals gain safe entry into this country.

I'm thinking about some sort of beacon to help guide the Haitain/Cuban "boat people" into Florida. Maybe the starter of this thread & I can team up to allow MILLIONS of illegals into this country. But lets not stop there........I'm sure there are a lot of Russians & East Europeans who want to come here. I will brain storm a way for them to also gain entry.

Tom kcØw

n2nh

11-11-2005, 07:09 PM

I think you'd be cured of that way of thinking if you had to personally live next to/work with/deal with a lot of these people personally for the next lifetime. Seems that people come to this country, see the Statue of Liberty facing Brooklyn and think, that's where I should live. Wait. In a month or so, they'll be telling you how bad the US is. So, exactly why did you illegally move here then??

KI6ASV

11-11-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,01:26)]my Idea (which actually is being used by the US Border Patrol in principle) is to buy radio beacons #(Aircraft ELT's?) and portable power (batteries + solar panels)
They would steal the (batteries + solar panels) - It happens here in SE San Diego County on the emergency phones we have along I-8 and Hwy. 94 - the areas close to the border. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

wb7dmx

11-11-2005, 07:23 PM

I like the land mines idea best, or instead of beacons, set up some laser beams that would do some damage and have them track the predators .

KE7DFP

11-11-2005, 08:20 PM

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 11 2005,10:43)]Ya pays ya dime and ya takes yer chances. #If you know there's a desert there, you know what it can do to you.
Hey! We agree John, I better find a church and start going to it, might be the last days! 73s

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 09:22 PM

Ok, Fair enough we share different philosophies for the border...

My Point of Veiw:

Have you ever walked in the desert for days?
Have you ever been to arizona in July, and walked for miles?

Heat death is a terrible way to die....

I cant blame someone for trying to come here? It is great here...

Now yes, the entire world population cannot come here - And that is the Job on the INS and Border Patrol to control that part but people still cross over... Its not just for them to die for crossing the desert...

Why dont you do this sometime.... Put yourself into an immigrant's shoes - see what you would do ... Then come to arizona for a summer and go hiking. Even better make it into a backpacking trip... Then talk....

PS: Heres a nice fact "BORSTAR--the Border Patrol Search, Trauma and Rescue Team--has carried out 850 rescues this year, compared to 560 last year, Soto said. And of those 850, 386 were a direct result of 38 cell phone calls made to 911 and directed to BORSTAR" - Tucson Weekly
<http://www.tucsonweekly.com/>

- If anything these "surrender beacons" will help secure the border duh...

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Nov. 11 2005,10:06)]To come into this country illegal, or smuggle bodies into this country illegally, is a Felony. Welfare fraud is also a felony which will be perpetuated on a massive scale once they cross. You are aiding and abetting felons, and your are an accessorry to a felony. You should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. What's worse, your crime will only facilitate larger numbers to cross, thereby an even higher death rate. By your actions, you will be responsible for those additional deaths. Your beacons will quickily be noted on maps and used by coyotes, drug smugglers, and other scum and undesireables, to assist the commission of their crime, and increase their profit margins. The solution to end the deaths of those that get themselves killed during the commission of a crime, is for NO ONE to cross the border except through a legal checkpoint. This and only this will drop the death rate to ZERO. Anything not working towards that goal, is not only illegal, but despicable.
I fail to see this

- If anything it will help both of us

When the beacons are turned on by a person in distress it calls the BORDER PATROL ...

not some smuggler group

Who else is it gonna call Ghost Busters? :-() Lol....

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote[/b] (kc0w @ Nov. 11 2005,11:04)]I also would like to help the illegals gain safe entry into this country.

I'm thinking about some sort of beacon to help guide the Haitain/Cuban "boat people" into Florida. Maybe the starter of this thread & I can team up to allow MILLIONS of illegals into this country. But lets not stop there........I'm sure there are a lot of Russians & East Europeans who want to come here. I will brain storm a way for them to also gain entry.

Tom kcØw
Im not saying to put in navigation beacons...

Im saying put in rescue beacons....

That call the BORDER PATROL

KC0W

11-11-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,21:22)]Ok, Fair enough we share different philosophies for the border...

My Point of Veiw:
I do not agree with your thoughts on this issue at all......But I do give you credit for not running or flaming when all of the postings so far have been against you. At least you stick up for what you believe in.

Tom kcØw

al2i

11-11-2005, 09:39 PM

Since I have family members in the Border partrol, I hear lots of strange stories. On of the stories is that a guy will bring his pregnant wife across the border and then call for medical help as she goes into labor. He skidaddles while she has the anchor baby, and soon they are all living the high life here in the good ol' crowded USA.

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 09:39 PM

Thank you... Let us be civilized in order to be productive instead of uncivilized (name calling, etc) which will draw us off the topic

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 09:41 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Nov. 11 2005,14:39)]Since I have family members in the Border partrol, I hear lots of strange stories. On of the stories is that a guy will bring his pregnant wife across the border and then call for medical help as she goes into labor. He skidaddles while she has the anchor baby, and soon they are all living the high life here in the good ol' crowded USA.
I feel that it is the job of the Border Patrol to prevent the illegal entry all together... But once they are in they should not be left to wander and die in the desert....

K0RGR

11-11-2005, 09:48 PM

The problem is that you're talking about adding them to the water stations. I can understand the logic of your critics, as cynical as it is. By offering dying people water in the desert, you encourage others to try to make the crossing, and sadly, they are right. Personally, I strongly support the efforts to built an unclimable barrier along the whole length of the whole border. This is a much better way for us to waste our money than some of those we are pursuing now.

Your 'give up' beacons are a great idea, but don't use ELTs - that would cause problems for the FAA and the CAP who would have to respond to them, and don't have anything to do with these water stations.

al2i

11-11-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,14:41)]I feel that it is the job of the Border Patrol to prevent the illegal entry all together... But once they are in they should not be left to wander and die in the desert....
Actually OM, I also talked to a friend of my relatives who supposedly treks into the desert to shoot up the water stations. I was kind of shocked to hear this, and I had to wonder if he was just blowing steam. Nevertheless, emotions run high and everyone believes they are in the right.

k6pme

11-11-2005, 09:52 PM

LDH, I have to say that I admire your compassion to save human life. If this wasn't such a huge massive problem I would more than likely want to help you. But, as things are I can not assist in facilitating what is going on down there. At this point it can only be Zero Tolerance.

WA2ZDY

11-11-2005, 09:52 PM

You're missign the point. The point is offer NO aid and let them take their chances. If the chances are slimmer, they'd slow down. Your method of help will only encourage MORE to come here.

As it stands right now, you are already guilty of conspiracy to aid and abet this illegal immigration. Maybe you should quit while you're ahead. Clearly, the vote here is not on your side.

And no, I've never walked in the desert. Wanna know why? I know better. And as for all those rescues you cite, who paid for them? That's right, you and I did. As I said before, if you want your money to go to aid foreigners, there are legitimate agencies who do that.

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 09:56 PM

Ok ill be honest.... Im not really for the water stations - I think they DO Comprimise security... But the group I work with is totally gung ho about water stations... And the water stations do help prevent death (thats why I advocate the stobes on the water stations)....

What I want to do is add the rescue beacons... With the strobes

as for the 121.5 I agree that would not be a good solution as it can cause a serious radio traffic jam - Thats why I was looking to see what your professional Ideas were...

KI4BNC

11-11-2005, 09:58 PM

so with the current crime rate (a portion contributed to by illegals.)
overcrowding(contributed to also by illegals)
drugs being brought into this country(yes a portion of them brought in by illegals)
not to mention what it has done to the government-for example(and if I am wrong I will accept FAIR criticism) law enforcement not being ALLOWED to ask a person their nationality or whether they are here legally or not...
also some of those illegals can carry some really nasty bugs and virus'.
so all this said-
we(taxpeyers,you me,everyone here LEGALLY should just help these people(illegals)?
without flying off the handle i can only say that you should:
1-do more research-ALOT MORE!
2-see #1
beleive it or not there is a legal system in place for this situation.
however on the other side of the coin, the ILLEGAL aspect is what brought on a large portion of some of the problems we have in this country today
just my opinion.(see signature.)
# # # # # # # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ghostface.gif

KD7LDH

11-11-2005, 10:07 PM

BTW, There are alot of groups who have the Universal opinion that the Border Patrol is not doing enough to secure the border (I feel this is implied by the minute men) see the 'americal border patrol (ABP)
Infact, The ABP purchased a UAV (I think two of them actually) and they are able to fly it around looking for migrants...
-KD7LDH

wb7dmx

11-11-2005, 10:17 PM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,14:22)]Ok, Fair enough we share different philosophies for the border...

My Point of Veiw:

Have you ever walked in the desert for days?
Have you ever been to arizona in July, and walked for miles?

Heat death is a terrible way to die....

I cant blame someone for trying to come here? It is great here...

Now yes, the entire world population cannot come here - And that is the Job on the INS and Border Patrol to control that part but people still cross over... Its not just for them to die for crossing the desert...

Why dont you do this sometime.... Put yourself into an immigrant's shoes - see what you would do ... Then come to arizona for a summer and go hiking. Even better make it into a backpacking trip... Then talk....

PS: Heres a nice fact "BORSTAR--the Border Patrol Search, Trauma and Rescue Team--has carried out 850 rescues this year, compared to 560 last year, Soto said. And of those 850, 386 were a direct result of 38 cell phone calls made to 911 and directed to BORSTAR" - Tucson Weekly
<http://www.tucsonweekly.com/>

- If anything these "surrender beacons" will help secure the border duh...
been there and done that
I have lived in arizona for several years and I did explore the desert many times, but I am not so stupid to go there without being prepared for it.

KE7DFP

11-11-2005, 11:53 PM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,14:22)]My Point of Veiw:

Have you ever walked in the desert for days?
Have you ever been to arizona in July, and walked for miles?
Yes, Yes, and Yes also, to the third one. I have a deep respect for what the desert can do between Morning and Sundown. If these people weren't crimanals breaking the law, they wouldn't be in mortal danger. What's next, Car keys left in all cars so thiefs won't get a shock when they try to hot wire them? If we give them a safe backup system when crossing the desert it just aids and abets. You can't feed a felon on the run or give him a ride. Why special rights for these criminals. If they want Beacons, have their own goverment put up stations on their side of the border,and forbid their own people to cross. I don't give a RAT'S asssssssk Duck, if they want to come here, either. How's that's suppose to justify it. We should have armed patrols shooting anyone crossing, so I couldn't really care less if nature exercises her right at natural selection.

k6pme

11-12-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,15:07)]BTW, There are alot of groups who have the Universal opinion that the Border Patrol is not doing enough to secure the border
I absolutely agree but they can only do so much with the funds provided.

KD7LDH

11-12-2005, 12:10 AM

True but I wonder if the money is being spent right?

k6pme

11-12-2005, 12:24 AM

Quote[/b] (KD7LDH @ Nov. 11 2005,17:10)]True but I wonder if the money is being spent right?
Well, unless your privy to the Border Patrols budget we will never really know. I suppose it can be obtained by using the Freedom of Information Act but budget priorities are fairly subjective and in this case dictated by the desires of higher authority.

I would say more but the thread would go political.

wa9cwx

11-12-2005, 12:59 AM

I live here in the simple midwest, so I know little of the things about which you speak. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

However, I wonder what other nations allow #access to foriegners with only token, at best, restrictions and then pass laws that REQUIRE those foriegn languages to be used, and TAUGHT (if you accept Gov't money or are in Gov't programs of any type, you MUST employ an interpreter), give the invaders free medical, educational, and monetary assistance, and allow them to pay NO taxes, carry NO insurance, drive with NO license, with only minimal or no repercussions, let alone extradition, for these vilolations.
And then spend the LEGAL citizens' strained tax 'reserves' to HELP more invaders ENTER the country illegally.......I am confused.
Again, is this common practice, I live in Wisconsin, I don't watch CNN very often, it is possible I have been missing out on some new international protocal that re-defines citizenship, national pride, honesty, and legal action, let alone common sense.

For instance, if I wish to knock off the local bank, is it ok now for me to request a city supplied get-away car, maybe some semi, or even fully automatic guns?
How about they intentionally leave a 'space' in police coverage of, say, half an hour or so between police shifts, just so I have an easier get away. I mean c'mon, have you ever tried to RUN from the COPS?
This can become DANGEROUS, you can, like, get HURT or something, people should PROTECT me from harm when I'm breaking the law, right.
Again, I'm not sure how far this has gone, after all, I thought the world was going to hell when the Code requirement went to 5 WPM, this seems WAY past that.

# http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KE7DFP

11-12-2005, 02:42 AM

If you only knew!!. It's even worse than you might imagine. Just be thankful you live far away in the American prairie land, isolated from harsh realities of border life. As to your question of what other country..... The answer is NONE. This insane idiocy is only allowed to perpetuate here.

VE7NOT

11-12-2005, 02:50 AM

Illegal Immigrants from Mexico must be idiots. The mexican-usa border has 10 times the number of customs-security as the twice as large canada-us border.

Personally if I was a mexican trying to get to bette conditions I wouldn't take a chnace of getting caught trying to sneak into the usa.

Belize borders Mexico. Not very tight borders there. Jungle across most of the border. Better conditions then the surounding countries and not many people.

Oh well they want to do things the hard way i guess. In that case how do you propose to sell a beacon to a mexican whp can't afford to live?