View Full Version : SONY
SONY has been using the same tactics as hackers (virus writers) to protect their CDs. These were harmful to some computers. There are stories that class action cases against SONY are being started in some states. It would be nice to see the networks here carrying some news on this.
SONY full of baloney. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4400148.stm)
<span style='color:red'>BE AWARE:</span>
Quote[/b] ]"Mr Russinovich feared that diligent users trying to keep their systems clean of viruses could stumble across the hidden XCP files, delete them and inadvertently cripple their computer."
KG4CGC
11-10-2005, 10:06 PM
SONY=FASCIST and those who seek to undermine your American Constitution.
Big Money on The Hill produces raw sewage that runs, downhill.
I love how they made VCRs took the money people spent for them, then when they bought a movie studio they were complaining about movies being copied. They go to Congress and have a fee instituted for people buying a VCR, because they're gonna copy a movie. But they still complained and still ran those "don't copy 'cause we're gonna sic the FBI on you." warnings before every tape. That money they took when you bought the VCR basically meant you had the RIGHT to do what you wanted with it. But they still complained. And they got another fee a few years later. They STILL ran that FBI warning though. Right to the end.
I copy Sony cd's, that I own, for my own use, many times with no problem. #I don't blame Sony, or any other company in their industry, from taking measures to prevent the theft of their product by those who think they have a right to download this music without the need to pay for it. That is stealing, plain and simple.
wb7dmx
11-10-2005, 10:23 PM
and they been sued for the damage they caused too.
it in court now.
Allegedly, one state has started a class-action suit with at least 2 others about to start theirs. This would explain why a lot of computers were damaged when people took steps to secure them. Just by playing a SONY CD.
SONY - the evidence. (http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html)
KD6NIG
11-10-2005, 10:43 PM
And now allegedly there is a worm or an exploit out that takes advantage of Sony's "Technology"-so now it appears those lawsuits just gained some steam behind them.....
KF0RT
11-10-2005, 11:59 PM
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 10 2005,15:12)]I love how they made VCRs took the money people spent for them, then when they bought a movie studio they were complaining about movies being copied. They go to Congress and have a fee instituted for people buying a VCR, because they're gonna copy a movie. But they still complained and still ran those "don't copy 'cause we're gonna sic the FBI on you." warnings before every tape. That money they took when you bought the VCR basically meant you had the RIGHT to do what you wanted with it. But they still complained. And they got another fee a few years later. They STILL ran that FBI warning though. Right to the end.
Yeah... If I'm not mistaken, there's still a surcharge on blank tape that goes straight to the movie houses.
Where music is concerned, it will be interesting to see how things finally shake out. It looks like the world is leaning towards the "legal Napster" solution right now. Not a whole lot cheaper than just buying the CD, and the music promoters get out of the whole CD production / distribution deal. I guess it's fair, though, because you don't have to buy all the "dud" tracks. I know I've bought more than one CD that had only one worthwhile track.
This has all been a shady deal for a long time -- for both the consumers and the musicians.
Movies... well, they only produce one or two a year that's worth watching.
73, Rob
WD8OQX
11-11-2005, 12:12 AM
SONY - what about CHER? Is this why we seldom ever hear about her? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Nov. 10 2005,15:22)]That is stealing, plain and simple.
No; it's copying...or "copyright infringement", if you will.
Stealing is when you physically deprive someone of something by removing it from their ownership.
Regardless...Sony just shot themselves in the foot with this one. There's only so much that consumers are willing to put up with, especially when it comes to a company disabling or handicapping something that belongs to them (i.e., their computer).
KG4CGC
11-11-2005, 12:21 AM
I don't buy a CD, I buy the music therefore I own it. The CD is just the medium. Sony has no right to put malware/spyware on MY machine that I own as well. If Sony owned my machine then I would have a different view. As it is, I bought and paid for the machine and the music and if I can't play a Sony CD on my machine without Sony infecting it, then I will boycott ALL THINGS Sony. CD's get scratched and broken, I should be able to keep an archive of the MUSIC I payed for. Sony and the RIAA, the 21st century version of organized criminals.
What the BBC has on the SONY lawsuits. My machine was trashed a few months ago. If it was due to one of their CDs, I fully intend to be in on this.
SONY Lawsuits (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4424254.stm)
<span style='color:red'>This link has all the CDs that were affected with the XCP hacker code that SONY put on them.</span>
Here's the legal brief (.pdf) of the California case against SONY.
SONY California Lawsuit (PDF) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/technology/daily/graphics/ca_complaint_110805.pdf)
KF0RT
11-11-2005, 01:10 AM
Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ Nov. 10 2005,17:21)]I don't buy a CD, I buy the music therefore I own it. The CD is just the medium. Sony has no right to put malware/spyware on MY machine that I own as well. If Sony owned my machine then I would have a different view. As it is, I bought and paid for the machine and the music and if I can't play a Sony CD on my machine without Sony infecting it, then I will boycott ALL THINGS Sony. CD's get scratched and broken, I should be able to keep an archive of the MUSIC I payed for. Sony and the RIAA, the 21st century version of organized criminals.
I think it should be fair to say that you buy the rights to use the music any way you see fit, provided you're not making money from playing it or violating the copyright by making copies for friends. This is what the so-called "fair use" laws were supposed to be about. Buy an album and make a tape so you can listen to it in your car, that's fine. Buy an album and make a tape so your buddy can listen to it in HIS car, that's copyright infringement.
Radio stations and even wedding DJ's pay extra to make money playing the works of others. The same goes for stores that play background music over their PA systems. They make money doing this, so a little gets kicked back to the musicians (more often, the record labels).
It's big business. And, it seems like the musicians are about evenly divided. Some are very much FOR the free distribution of their work because it gives them exposure and increases the headcount at concerts. Others are against it because they're in it for the money.
Here's a great article on the subject by Janis Ian (remember her?):
http://www.janisian.com/articles.html
Click on THE INTERNET DEBACLE - AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW on the menu at the left.
It does seem like things have settled a bit in the music world, with Napster, iTunes, Rhapsody and the like now having about 1.5 million tracks online. It's still far from all-inclusive, though. For instance, you won't find much of the Beatles' work online legally. The rights are jointly owned by Sony and Michael Jackson, and the bad-boy of pop won't allow it. Online rights for distribution requires new contracts, so having 1.5 million tracks online represents a lot of paralegals driving BMW's, I'd guess.
Ultimately, it seems like the shakeout will mean that you pay a subscription fee for access to a huge library. I pay about $100/year for a Rhapsody subscription and haven't bought a CD since. Every audio CD I own has been ripped to MP3 and resides on a USB hard drive. Playlists courtesy of Winamp.
So far, I'm liking this "new" technology. If a few more of the musicians get on board, the RIAA will have to change their "tune." They've had it too good for too long, screwing both the consumer as well as the artists.
73, Rob
P.S. I wouldn't mind hearing from some of our European friends on this. From what I hear, their laws are draconian compared with what we put up with in the U.S.
Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Nov. 10 2005,17:20)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Nov. 10 2005,15:22)]That is stealing, plain and simple.
No; it's copying...or "copyright infringement", if you will.
Stealing is when you physically deprive someone of something by removing it from their ownership.
).
You might want to check, for example, the Penn State University Napster web site. You will find this quote on that site "There is simply no excuse for stealing music" this from Ron Erickson the Executive Vice President and Provost of Penn State University.
The thing is that these CDs used Hacker tactics to put code on your computer whether or not you copied them. The code remained there hidden on your computer and if you deleted it, in many cases your computer was trashed. Also, it provided others with a door into your computer that wasn't there before SONY put it there.
This has NOTHING to do with copying files. This is a violation of your computer and its security. All you had to do to get this was to run a copy of certain SONY CDs on your computer. Just running it was enough. The CD would then put these files into your computer.
Quote[/b] (WD8OQX @ Nov. 10 2005,21:12)]SONY - what about CHER? Is this why we seldom ever hear about her? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
She's collecting Social Security now. She retired a couple of years ago.
<span style='color:blue'>The latest on SONY and the hacked CDs from the Washington Post:</span>
The Post on SONY (http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/calif_ny_lawsui.html)
SONY raids hacker playbook (http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/sony_raids_hack.html)
KF0RT
11-11-2005, 03:25 AM
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 10 2005,18:36)]The thing is that these CDs used Hacker tactics to put code on your computer whether or not you copied them. The code remained there hidden on your computer and if you deleted it, in many cases your computer was trashed. Also, it provided others with a door into your computer that wasn't there before SONY put it there.
This has NOTHING to do with copying files. This is a violation of your computer and its security. All you had to do to get this was to run a copy of certain SONY CDs on your computer. Just running it was enough. The CD would then put these files into your computer.
Sony deserves to rot in hell for that.
I hope the class action suit prevails -- sad that it only applies to California.
73, Rob
kd5rpo
11-11-2005, 04:45 AM
If you would like to check for the rootkit type of malware, download RootkitRevealer.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/Rootkit_Revealer_d4652.html
Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Nov. 10 2005,18:33)]You might want to check, for example, the Penn State University Napster web site. You will find this quote on that site "There is simply no excuse for stealing music" this from Ron Erickson the Executive Vice President and Provost of Penn State University.
OK...for the umpteenth time (forget the RIAA party line):
Copyright infringement != stealing
Regardless of whose website says that it is.
Plenty of prior case history to support this as well.
One need look no further than the RIAA's own lawsuits which they've filed against "downloaders" to find evidence of this; the torts cite (you guessed it) copyright infringement as the basis for their legal actions.
Napster is owned/controlled by the RIAA and its member companies. They'll parrot anything said organizations tell them to...
WA2ZDY
11-11-2005, 03:14 PM
They certainly have the right to protect themselves from theft. They do not have the right to alter MY computer.
Sony has been digging itself a hole for a while now. A few years ago their CD players wouldn't play CD-R discs. Their "effort" to stop illegal copying. Sad for them, I had to go buy someone else's CD player.
This one it sounds like may blow up in their faces. Good. In the meantime I'll just keep listening to Sirius. I don't mind, it's the best $13.50 I spend every month.
Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Nov. 11 2005,08:14)]In the meantime I'll just keep listening to Sirius. I don't mind, it's the best $13.50 I spend every month.
Agreed.
I can put one of those (or any of the other satellite-radio devices) on my mo'-sickle and get a huge amount of content...cheap...and don't have to fool with CD changers, morning-time FM jocks who are in love with their own voice, etc...
K0RGR
11-11-2005, 04:28 PM
Stealing music is evil. But what if I want to rip the tracks off that CD so I can listen to it on my iPod?
Here's another great reason to get off WinBloz, and move to Linux or Apple. Unfortunately, if enough people do that, the hackers will go after those platforms, too.
Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Nov. 11 2005,09:28)]Here's another great reason to get off WinBloz, and move to Linux or Apple.
Don't look now...but Sony's DRM installs on the Apple platform too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I had the crap that Sony installs on my computer. Here is how I removed it.
I first downloaded and ran the RootkitReveler from MajorGeeks as described earlier in this thread.
I then went to www.sunncomm.com/support/bmg and posted a messge asking how to remove the data and software that was installed on my computer.
When the reply told me that I didn't need to worry about the advanced features provided by the installed software, I replied "Pure BS" and asked the question again.
Then I got another reply that said, "Well if you insist" along with a URL to a web site that removed the crap.
I re-ran RootkitReveler and the stuff was gone.
ymmv.
I wonder how many people got the "Don't worry just remove it" answer and ended up trashing their machines? This might be very damaging to SONY. Especially their reputation and their sales. Time to look at the stock portfolio...
KG4CGC
11-11-2005, 06:19 PM
Quote[/b] (W0MT @ Nov. 11 2005,12:39)]I had the crap that Sony installs on my computer. Here is how I removed it.
I first downloaded and ran the RootkitReveler from MajorGeeks as described earlier in this thread.
I then went to www.sunncomm.com/support/bmg and posted a messge asking how to remove the data and software that was installed on my computer.
When the reply told me that I didn't need to worry about the advanced features provided by the installed software, I replied "Pure BS" and asked the question again.
Then I got another reply that said, "Well if you insist" along with a URL to a web site that removed the crap.
I re-ran RootkitReveler and the stuff was gone.
ymmv.
So, post the url please. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Here is the entire email I received.
Quote[/b] ]Dear Valued Customer,
You have received this email because you requested a means to remove SunnComm's MediaMax software from your computer. Please be aware that removal of the MediaMax software will result in a loss of special features provided on this CD.
Click the link, below, for one-time access to a web page which will enable the removal of our software:
http://www.sunncomm.com/support....2DE33B1 (http://www.sunncomm.com/support/tools/remove.asp?guid=6E82C976-071B-41A4-AAB0-3F7962DE33B1)
Thank you,
Rob
SunnComm Tech Support
I assume that everyone needs to their own "special" URL. When I went to the URL it cautioned that it was a "one-time" shot.
k4kyv
11-11-2005, 06:32 PM
Here's a couple more articles.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051101-5514.html
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog....ts.html (http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html)
Quote[/b] (W0MT @ Nov. 11 2005,11:32)]Here is the entire email I received.
Quote[/b] ]Dear Valued Customer,
You have received this email because you requested a means to remove SunnComm's MediaMax software from your computer.
I assume that everyone needs to their own "special" URL. When I went to the URL it cautioned that it was a "one-time" shot.
Sony's DRM "kit" was written by First4Internet; it's a UK-based company.
IIRC, Sophos has made available a removal tool - have a look at any of the bigger computer-security sites and you'll find lots of info about this "pest".
KG4CGC
11-11-2005, 07:06 PM
I like how they said "you will lose special features of the CD". Marketing BS!
Reuters had this explanation on their story of the SONY hacking software,
Quote[/b] ]<span style='color:red'>"A computer security firm said on Thursday</span> <span style='color:blue'>(11/10/05 - yesterday)</span> <span style='color:red'>it had discovered the first virus that uses music publisher Sony BMG's controversial CD copy-protection software to hide on PCs and wreak havoc."</span>
SONY - Hacking Drives Everywhere (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2005-11-10T164821Z_01_ARM058018_RTRUKOC_0_US-SONY-HACK.xml)
The lowdown on dangers using rootkits and removal (http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/security/news/article.php/3561181)