How the nation was led to war [Archive]

G0GQK

11-09-2005, 11:36 PM

What is it, or what has happened to make so many people change their minds ?

It was quite obvious that spending $200 billion on making a mess of Iraq was not going to catch Bin Laden.
Saddam Hussein was a damned nuisance to other Middle East countries, but who supplied him with the gear ?

He was supposed to be able to send a missile to the UK in 45 minutes. Did anyone really believe that ? And why was he a danger to the US ? The culprits, as everyone knows, were from a different country.

Its about time the government of a certain country realised that not every country in the world wants, or needs democracy. And if people don't want something why should they be forced to have something they dont want ?

The problem with Saddam Hussein, like the fella in Cuba , he was getting up somebody's nose because he wouldn't do as he was told.

And that's not all. He had the bloody cheek to decide to use the Euro currency in his oil transactions rather than the Almighty Dollar. And that IS getting up Uncle Sam's nose !

Sorry about the bad news,

Mel

n0ov

11-10-2005, 01:09 AM

How we got there is no longer important. How we get our troops out without having the whole region explode is the question

al2i

11-10-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote[/b] (w0pee @ Nov. 09 2005,18:09)]How we got there is no longer important. How we get our troops out without having the whole region explode is the question
And the answer is....?

n2nh

11-10-2005, 12:25 PM

42.

n2nh

11-10-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote[/b] (ad4mg @ Nov. 09 2005,20:08)]Quote[/b] (KG4ZQZ @ Nov. 09 2005,07:48)]Quote[/b] (n7wsb @ Nov. 09 2005,04:14)]http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/11/07.html#a5756 In bush's own words ;).
debunking lib 'tards (http://www.factcheck.org)
Standard neo-con spin move. Easily identified by the lack of intellegence.

Not that the liberal spin move is any better.

Those spin moves are becoming more difficult to identify. Both sides illustrate a total lack of creativity when "spinning". It is apparent how much damage is being done to the brainless souls from the dizziness! Most wander aimlessly across the internet repeating partyline propaganda.

Whrrrrr whrrrrr whrrrrr spin spin spin whrrrr.
Yup. Starting right up with the name calling. Then we get "Now is not the time for finger pointing." and so on ad nauseum. Funny that link does show a lot of Repugnicant finger pointing and faux news...

How The Mess was done. (http://www.factcheck.org/article351.html)

KF6EAL

11-10-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 10 2005,05:27)]Repugnicant
Yeah, I see how much you despise the name calling.

Taking sides in the political debate is like taking sides in a divorce. Which side you are on depends on which kind of "wrong" you want to be.

KD6NIG

11-10-2005, 05:28 PM

In Bush's own words. Hmm.

Last time I checked, a decleration of war cannot be done by just one man.

Ok, so Bush is the "leader" of the USA. But he didn't, and couldn't, do this on his own, right?

Agree or disagree with what we did, it appears that there is more than one person to blame, and more than one person saw where the road was going and endorsed said travel.

And this came from both sides of the aisle, because in order to get a majority, that would be the only way it could have happened.

Plenty of blame to go around everywhere, folks. When he's gone.....its not going to be back all hunky dory. Remember, the people who had to endorse the plan will probably still be here, at least a good portion of them, unless you not only remove Bush, but everyone in Congress also. If you want a clean sweep of the administration, that would have to include all of them to be done correctly.

Just changing the majority isn't going to change what some people on both sides voted for to get the ball rolling http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

n7wsb

11-12-2005, 08:53 PM

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Nov. 10 2005,10:28)]In Bush's own words. Hmm.

Last time I checked, a decleration of war cannot be done by just one man.

Ok, so Bush is the "leader" of the USA. But he didn't, and couldn't, do this on his own, right?

Agree or disagree with what we did, it appears that there is more than one person to blame, and more than one person saw where the road was going and endorsed said travel.

And this came from both sides of the aisle, because in order to get a majority, that would be the only way it could have happened.

Plenty of blame to go around everywhere, folks. When he's gone.....its not going to be back all hunky dory. Remember, the people who had to endorse the plan will probably still be here, at least a good portion of them, unless you not only remove Bush, but everyone in Congress also. If you want a clean sweep of the administration, that would have to include all of them to be done correctly.

Just changing the majority isn't going to change what some people on both sides voted for to get the ball rolling http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
True, but Bush still set the political tone on capital hill. You cannot deny that if he had never had this willingness to go to war in Iraq we wouldn't be there today.

And it didn't help that he (and the bush administration) didn't tell the truth in the leadup to war.

KE7DFP

11-13-2005, 12:39 AM

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ Nov. 09 2005,16:36)]Saddam Hussein was a damned nuisance to other Middle East countries, but who supplied him with the gear ?
OK, I give, Who supplied him with the gear?

n2nh

11-13-2005, 05:07 AM

Quote[/b] (KF6EAL @ Nov. 10 2005,14:17)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 10 2005,05:27)]Repugnicant
Yeah, I see how much you despise the name calling.

Taking sides in the political debate is like taking sides in a divorce. Which side you are on depends on which kind of "wrong" you want to be.
Just sticking to the facts. I find it very repugnant to have people who say they are religous, yet curse the poor, spit on the empathic and flail away at those who disagree with them using 'tarded logic and shell games. Also, who call the Democratic Party the Democrat party. You can call them whatever you like. And you can disagree with me all you want.

I call 'em as I see 'em.

KF6EAL

11-14-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 12 2005,22:07)]Just sticking to the facts.
The fact that you see it that way does not make the way you see it fact. It is just a point of view.

The other side has their reasons for seeing it the way they do, too. That doesn't make it any more or less valid than your point of view.

People stuck in their view often become left-wing or right-wing extremists. Sometimes they become terroists. Sometimes they just get on the internet and call each other names.

W2ILP

11-14-2005, 02:19 AM

The answer is ...We get our troops out of Iraq on ships and airplanes.

w2ilp (Iraq Loses Patrollers)

W2ILP

11-14-2005, 02:41 AM

Have our troops prevented the recent terrorist attacks in Jordan? No. Our troops can not prevent suicidal terrorism in the entire middle eastern region or even in Iraq. The fact is as long as our troops remain, Islamic fundamentalists will sponsor escalated terrorism. The region may explode with or without our troops being there, but removing our troops may actually reduce acts of terrorism to U.S. embassies, hotels and oil fields in the region.

w2ilp (I Like Peace)

KG4CGC

11-14-2005, 02:55 AM

Fundementalists there are like fundementalists here, nothing you can do will ever make them happy except for 100% submission to their way of thinking and living.

wv6z

11-14-2005, 04:04 AM

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ Nov. 12 2005,20:55)]Fundementalists there are like fundementalists here, nothing you can do will ever make them happy except for 100% submission to their way of thinking and living.
Exactly...... can you say "BOB JONES".

Nice....... very nice......... I knew that you could.

KG4CGC

11-14-2005, 05:41 AM

http://mryamamoto.50megs.com/silly-crap/valley08.jpg

KF6EAL

11-14-2005, 06:35 AM

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Nov. 13 2005,19:41)]Have our troops prevented the recent terrorist attacks in Jordan? #No. #Our troops can not prevent suicidal terrorism in the entire middle eastern region or even in Iraq. #The fact is as long as our troops remain, Islamic fundamentalists will sponsor escalated terrorism. #The region may explode with or without our troops being there, but removing our troops may actually reduce acts of terrorism to U.S. embassies, hotels and oil fields in the region.
It is pretty clear that the war in Afgahnistan and Iraq has not eliminted the threat of terrorism. Depending on who you listen to, it seems to have harmed it seriously, though.

I doubt that pulling out is going to reduce terrorism. I would be interested to know what the basis is for such a statement. I can see no logic or precedence that would lead one to believe that.

I was watching 60 minutes tonight while I slipped in and out of consciousness. If you can believe anything they say, even ALF is getting in on terrorism meant to kill people. According to the program, they used to be careful, at least, not to kill any people.

KB9YCO

11-14-2005, 05:56 PM

"Clowns to left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle..."

Common sense is no longer common, non-partisan thinking is no longer popular, extremism is the fashion of the day, and the truth that is somewhere in between is harder to find and filter.

My biggest problem with the whole Iraq war is not that Saddam was a bad guy, everyone has known that for a long time, it's the fact that the Bush administration keeps changing it's story. First it was that Iraq was a threat to the US, then it was weapons of mass destruction (that never materialized), then it was for global security against terrorism. Anyone that changes their story that much has to have some hidden agenda, or else they're just morons. I haven't decided which, perhaps a bit of both.

KF6EAL

11-14-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote[/b] (KB9YCO @ Nov. 14 2005,10:56)]...the truth that is somewhere in between is harder to find and filter.
With human beings, there is no truth. There is only what is so and what you want to create. Talking about "truth" is a waste of time with human beings. Everyone has their own version of "truth".

It makes more sense to talk about what is so and what you want to create.

For instance, on the whole, as human beings, we don't take care of the physical and spiritual needs of one another very well. We have groups of people that may look out for one another fairly well like within families, communities, nations, etc. but when it comes to getting along with people outside our group, we often look to our own interests only. This is what causes wars.

What do we want to create around this? Do we want to keep doing it like it has been done? Do we want what is so now or do we want to create a whole new reality about what it is to live in this world.

It can't be done by getting stuck on our version of the "truth" and beating down the other guy. At least, it hasn't worked so far and I am not too hoepful about the results in the future.

KB9YCO

11-14-2005, 07:28 PM

I understand what you mean, in this instance I was referring to the facts of the case to go to war, as opposed to the polarized rhetoric that mucks up the reality of the who, what, when, where, why and how, and the skewing of facts that may or may not have occured. Certainly the story has changed a number of times. Otherwise I agree, truth seems to be fairly subjective, i.e. my right versus your wrong, etc. in terms of any sort of philosophical or interpretive subject. In terms of government activity there is a 'truth' out there, it's just next to impossible to find or track down someone willing to admit it, or documents to prove it.

KG4CGC

11-14-2005, 07:39 PM

http://mryamamoto.50megs.com/silly-crap/dogbreath6.jpg

KF6EAL

11-14-2005, 07:51 PM

Quote[/b] (KB9YCO @ Nov. 14 2005,12:28)]In terms of government activity there is a 'truth' out there, it's just next to impossible to find or track down someone willing to admit it, or documents to prove it.
Okay, I get it.

However, I still wonder about the idea of getting to the "truth" or having all the facts. If we have all the facts, all we have then is to either agree or disagree with what was done or not done in relation to them. I don't see the point. That is just more of what we all ready have. That is what causes war.

How do you and I want the world to occur? What can we work on together?

KE7DFP

11-14-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote[/b] (KF6EAL @ Nov. 14 2005,11:17)]TQuote[/b] (KB9YCO @ Nov. 14 2005,10:56)]...the truth that is somewhere in between is harder to find and filter.
With human beings, there is no truth. There is only what is so and what you want to create. Talking about "truth" is a waste of time with human beings. Everyone has their own version of "truth".

It makes more sense to talk about what is so and what you want to create.

For instance, on the whole, as human beings, we don't take care of the physical and spiritual needs of one another very well. We have groups of people that may look out for one another fairly well like within families, communities, nations, etc. but when it comes to getting along with people outside our group, we often look to our own interests only. This is what causes wars.

What do we want to create around this? Do we want to keep doing it like it has been done? Do we want what is so now or do we want to create a whole new reality about what it is to live in this world.

It can't be done by getting stuck on our version of the "truth" and beating down the other guy. At least, it hasn't worked so far and I am not too hoepful about the results in the future.
Oh great, you've discovered the cause of war! #mankind rejoice! THE GREAT, ALL KNOWING SAGE, KF6EAL HAS FOUND THE CURE FOR HUMANITY'S ILLS AND THE KEY TO ENDING WAR! We simply treat others as we would be treated ourselfs. #Well, the real world doesn't conform to that model. How well did your technique work for the Tibetans Monks? Did that protect them from the beatings, the rapes, and slaughter? #OOOOOOMM #OOOOOOOOMMMM # #OOOOOOOOOmm # #ding...........ding.

KF6EAL

11-14-2005, 10:30 PM

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Nov. 14 2005,13:14)]We simply treat others as we would be treated ourselfs.
Well, I didn't exactly say that, but anyway, you seem to be assuming that I am against self-defense.

Sometimes you have to deal with the reality of a situation while creating whatever it is you want to create. It isn't easy but it can be done. But if you live like the way things are is the only way they can be, that is all you will ever get.

Your vitriol betrays you.

AK7V

11-14-2005, 11:56 PM

How the nation was led to war?

I'd say it had to do with some airplanes hitting buildings and killing thousands of innocent Americans.

KG4CGC

11-15-2005, 12:35 AM

Who planted all the demolitions to go off after the fact?

N9XR

11-15-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote[/b] ]Blast in Iraq kills Waverly graduate
Grasha Kevin
Staff

Justin S. Smith, 28, died with 3 other soldiers
Smith: Proud dad, slain in Iraq, talked often of infant son

By Kevin Grasha
Lansing State Journal
Judy Smith's worst nightmare began with a knock on the door early Tuesday.
Standing on the doorstep of her one-story, west Lansing home were two men dressed in military uniforms.
At that moment, she knew.
She recalled saying only: "No. No. No."
Smith's 28-year-old son Justin, an Army tank commander, was one of four soldiers killed Monday in Baghdad when a bomb stashed in a vehicle exploded while they were on foot patrol, according to the U.S. Department of Defense.
Judy Smith asked the officers a few questions before they walked away. When she couldn't remember what they had just said, she called them back.
They told her again about how an improvised explosive device had detonated near 1st Lt. Justin S. Smith.
"I'm barely keeping my head above water," Judy said Wednesday evening.
The slain soldiers were assigned to the 3rd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. They were stationed just south of Baghdad.
Justin, a Lansing native, is survived by his wife, Shellie, 31; an 8-year-old stepson; and 1-year-old son.
"All he could talk about was that baby," Judy said.
The family lives in Clayton, N.C., about an hour from Fort Bragg, where Justin was based before the war.
Once every two months or so, Justin would call his mother. But he never wanted to talk about what was happening in Iraq, where he'd been since March 2005.
"He knew if he told me what things were like, I would worry too much," Judy said.
So they talked about his son. About his sister's child. About what was going on in Michigan, far away from the 130-degree desert heat, the 24-hour shifts, the war.
Shellie Smith spoke with her husband twice Sunday - the last time they talked and a day before he was killed - but she said very little stands out.

"[They were] such normal, happy conversations," she said.
During the call, she e-mailed a short video from her digital camera of 1-year-old Ayden tearing apart his chocolate cake like he was digging into dirt at a recent birthday party.
"Justin was saying, 'That's my boy,' " she said.
A 1995 graduate of Waverly High School who was on both the football and wrestling teams, Justin left for Army basic training in August 1995.
His goal was to serve for 30 years, work his way up the ranks and then retire.
In May 2004, he earned his ROTC commission. When he left for Iraq, he was 10 years into his 30-year plan.
Gary Wilson, Justin's wrestling coach at Waverly High School in the mid-1990s, said he was amazed at his work ethic and attitude.
"As a coach, he was the greatest kid you could ever want," said Wilson, now a middle school teacher for Waverly schools.
"He was such a hard worker. He went from one of those kids that was roly-poly in middle school to one of the best wrestlers in the state by his senior year."
Wilson, whose 1994 wrestling team won the conference championship, said he wasn't surprised when Justin came back to school to visit him and told him he was going into the military.
"He'd be the first one in and the last one to leave," Wilson said. "He's going to be missed."
Justin's great aunt, Bobbie Sue Luken, a real estate agent, said he was always asking for advice about financing the house he was planning to buy in Colorado Springs, near where he was to be stationed when he returned from Iraq.
"I can't wait to get home," she recalled him saying. He was due to return, she said, in March 2006.

Regards, N9XR

W2ILP

11-15-2005, 05:59 AM

We are averaging more than one U.S.serviceman or woman killed and many more injured, every day that we stay in Iraq. Is it worth it? We have witnessed Iraqis killing Iraqis, including innocent civilians. Is the presence of U.S. troops stopping that or is it instigating it?. Some Iraqis are killing the Iraqios that are beiing trained as police or soldiers to be the good guys on our side. This is because they think that those who would work in the interests of the U.S. are traitors to the interests of Iraqi Muslims of all sects. The war of the terrorists is based on hate and our presense in Iraq seems to be generating more hate than love from the reports that I have read.

I could be wrong...but I believe that getting out of Iraq might do more to prevent bloodshed than capturing Saddam Hussein did. At any rate getting out could save the U.S. a lot of money just on the logistics of supporting our troops in Iraqw with food and equipment.

Meanwhile at a military base in Alaska ,GWB is still saying that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do and blasting the Democrats who had originally agreed to wage war with Iraq and now say that the Iraq war was a Republican mistake. The decision to wage war was bi-partisan and IMHO the decision to get out should also be bi-parftisan...as should the decision to impeach GWB.

GWB is on his way to Japan, China and Korea. Let's hope his trip is more fruitful than his recent trip to South America.

w2ilp (Icy Loyal Patriotism?)...to hot subjects? [There are cool blue states & red hot ones]

n2nh

11-15-2005, 09:03 AM

Quote[/b] (KF6EAL @ Nov. 13 2005,22:50)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 12 2005,22:07)]Just sticking to the facts.
The fact that you see it that way does not make the way you see it fact. It is just a point of view.

The other side has their reasons for seeing it the way they do, too. That doesn't make it any more or less valid than your point of view.

People stuck in their view often become left-wing or right-wing extremists. Sometimes they become terroists. Sometimes they just get on the internet and call each other names.
Okay, if you want 4 quintillion shades of gray, then we're not talking facts. We're now talking a shell game. If you're going to say you're religous, then at least take time to go over the "Let's get started quickly" Manual for your religion. In the Judeo-Christian Religions, that would be the 10 Commandments. If you're in way too much of a hurry for that, then, at least for "Christians", there's the ONE COMMANDMENT. The ONE that Jesus narrows it down to, which we call the "Golden Rule". ALL religions have this rule. If you want to ignore it, then please don't tell me you're religous. Use the years you have here with all the free will you have. But reality will still bite. There's always a tommorrow. Even the day you die. At least if you're allegedly "Christian". Sometimes, the names we call ourselves are the best of all.

W0MT

11-15-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote[/b] ]AK7V Posted on Nov. 14 2005,16:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How the nation was led to war?

I'd say it had to do with some airplanes hitting buildings and killing thousands of innocent Americans.
I am so glad you cleared this up for us! Let's see if I have it right. Some terrorists attack the US and Bush decides to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attacks. I personnaly think he could have picked a better country to invade. Why not Mexico? It is closer and has better beaches.

KF6EAL

11-15-2005, 04:27 PM

You respond to me like you want to be for or against me and you set up a strawman to argue against. For all you know, when I get caught up in the facts, I agree with you.

Quote[/b] ]then we're not talking facts
Knowing all the facts is not going to make a difference. It never has as far as I can tell.

Quote[/b] ]If you're going to say you're religous
I don't think I said whether I was religeous.

Quote[/b] ]10 Commandments
I know the 10 commandments and so do millions of other people. How much difference has knowing them made? Just knowing something does not make a difference.

Quote[/b] ]..."Golden Rule"... If you want to ignore it, then please don't tell me you're religous.
I don't think anything I said could lead you to know whether I was ignoring this rule and, again, I didn't say whether I was religeous.

Quote[/b] ]Use the years you have here with all the free will you have. #But reality will still bite. I get that. For me, I will die knowing that we created that reality together and, if it does bite, that I was not able to change enough minds about working to change that reality.

AC0H

11-15-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote[/b] ]Who planted all the demolitions to go off after the fact?

Oh, please tell.
This ought to be the biggest laugh I've had in weeks.

KG4CGC

11-15-2005, 06:47 PM

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Nov. 15 2005,13:29)]Quote[/b] ]Who planted all the demolitions to go off after the fact?

Oh, please tell.
This ought to be the biggest laugh I've had in weeks.
Modern jet fuel is designed to NOT explode. Those building fell just like they were being demolished, straight down.

kf6rdn

11-15-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote[/b] (W0MT @ Nov. 15 2005,05:56)]Why not Mexico? It is closer and has better beaches.
By Mexico do you really mean California?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

AC0H

11-15-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote[/b] ]Modern jet fuel is designed to NOT explode. Those building fell just like they were being demolished, straight down.
Riiiight.
Linkage (http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar98-26.pdf)

K0RGR

11-15-2005, 10:13 PM

I see in today's paper that the Republican Senators are making a move to demand a plan to end the war. It's a lot less agressive than what a few Democrats have suggested, and of course, the GOP are falling all over themselves to make it perfectly clear that even though they are stabbing the President in the back while kicking his butt, this is not in any way to be considered a criticism of him or his policies. It's amazing how people can be convinced to do God's work when there's an election approaching.

Mr. Bush needs to change his phonograph record. The stories he used in his last election campaign are not playing in Peoria this time around. I see his approval rating, and the percentage of people who believe him personally went down a few more points this week.

W0MT

11-16-2005, 12:26 AM

Quote[/b] ]kf6rdn Posted: Nov. 15 2005,12:31 #

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (W0MT @ Nov. 15 2005,05:56)
Why not Mexico? It is closer and has better beaches.

By Mexico do you really mean California?
Not only no but Hell No! Who wants California? Mexico has better food and tequilla (and of course, beaches).

kf6rdn

11-16-2005, 01:05 AM

Quote[/b] (W0MT @ Nov. 15 2005,17:26)]Quote[/b] ]kf6rdn Posted: Nov. 15 2005,12:31 #

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (W0MT @ Nov. 15 2005,05:56)
Why not Mexico? It is closer and has better beaches.

By Mexico do you really mean California?
Not only no but Hell No! Who wants California? Mexico has better food and tequilla (and of course, beaches).
Yeah? then why are all the Mexicans HERE?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KE7DFP

11-16-2005, 01:12 AM

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ Nov. 15 2005,11:47)]Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Nov. 15 2005,13:29)]Quote[/b] ]Who planted all the demolitions to go off after the fact?

Oh, please tell.
This ought to be the biggest laugh I've had in weeks.
Modern jet fuel is designed to NOT explode. Those building fell just like they were being demolished, straight down.
You forgot the pentagon, there never was a jet wreckage after the crash, remember?, really a secret guide missle the pentagon shot at itself. They've got picture of the missile! #Proof! It's just another big Bush coverup. Your right though, Jet fuel can't blow up. It just makes sounds as it burns inside the engine and giant rubberr bands wind up to run the turbines. I filled the walls of my house with jet fuel to make it fireproof.

N7RJD

11-16-2005, 01:16 AM

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Nov. 15 2005,12:12)]It's just another big Bush coverup.
It is funny how on Mon, Wed and Fri Bush is too stupid to orchestrate a cover up and on Tues, Thurs and the weekends he is creating cover up after cover up.

n2nh

11-16-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ Nov. 15 2005,22:16)]Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Nov. 15 2005,12:12)]It's just another big Bush coverup.
It is funny how on Mon, Wed and Fri Bush is too stupid to orchestrate a cover up and on Tues, Thurs and the weekends he is creating cover up after cover up.
He looks smarter after a few Coronas.

(just kidding) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

KE7DFP

11-16-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Nov. 16 2005,06:59)]Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ Nov. 15 2005,22:16)]Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Nov. 15 2005,12:12)]It's just another big Bush coverup.
It is funny how on Mon, Wed and Fri Bush is too stupid to orchestrate a cover up and on Tues, Thurs and the weekends he is creating cover up after cover up.
He looks smarter after a few Coronas.

(just kidding) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

KC2KFC

11-16-2005, 10:45 PM

Maybe this is one way our nation was led to war.
Iraq has abused its last chance (http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/)

KE7DFP

11-16-2005, 11:55 PM

Are you saying C*****N Mislead us so he could knock out the WMDs in Iraq?. Kind of acting like a Cowboy, isn't he. You just KNOW he was planning to do this long before he was elected. Thanks KFC, it is fun to take a stroll down memory lane.

K0RGR

11-17-2005, 12:47 AM

No, he's saying that based on what Clinton did in 1998 to try to get the UN inspectors back into Iraq, we told the inspectors to leave 5 years later and invaded the country. Of course, we had to threaten them with invasion to get the inspectors back in. But once we got them in, we didn't believe what they told us.

I loved the editorial cartoon today that showed Bush saying " I didn't mislead, you mis-followed".

KC2KFC

11-17-2005, 02:25 AM

Some of my favorite quotes from that article.

Quote[/b] ]"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Or how about.

Quote[/b] ]"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

And of course.

Quote[/b] ]Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.

He only waited 6 weeks before launching the air strikes?

Quote[/b] ]The Iraqi leader was given a final warning six weeks ago, Clinton said, when Baghdad promised to cooperate with U.N. inspectors at the last minute just as U.S. warplanes were headed its way.

Or how about this.

Quote[/b] ]Clinton said he made the decision to strike Wednesday with the unanimous agreement of his security advisors.

Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years.

So where did Clinton get this intelligence from?

N9XR

11-17-2005, 02:53 AM

I appreciate you guys giving Clinton the credit for removing WMD's from Iraq. I didn't think so, but I guess it is plausible.

Quote[/b] ]Clinton also addressed the ongoing impeachment crisis in the White House.

I missed in this and in other articles where Clinton sustained American casualties. Maybe someone can point this out. Possibly it is supposed to be the intention of the President to loose thousands of US soldiers, in which case Clinton did not do so well.

Hopefully, in the near future, there will be impeachment proceedings to contend with with Meester Boosh.

November 9 Xterminate Republicans (and many Democrats too)

KC2KFC

11-17-2005, 08:36 AM

My question is, was Clinton telling the truth when he told the American people about the WMDs? Or was he just fixing the intelligence for his own needs in order to deflect public attention away from the Lewinski scandal/impeachment.

Those weapons or the ability to produce them must have been there. He would not have bombed Iraq if they weren't, would he?

AC0H

11-17-2005, 01:38 PM

Wag the Dog.

n0ov

11-17-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Nov. 15 2005,17:55)]Are you saying C*****N Mislead us so he could knock out the WMDs in Iraq?. #Kind of acting like a Cowboy, isn't he. #You just KNOW he was planning to do this long before he was elected. Thanks KFC, it is fun to take a stroll down memory lane.
No

What he is saying that Saddam led this nation to war.

I don't like war and the idea our good people (not to mention the folks in the cross fire) are getting killed. #However, a few of you folks need to remember one important fact.

Saddam was violating agreements, stating he had weapons of mass destruction, attempting to aquire materials to build more. #At the same time he had a history of using chemical weapons on his own people, invading a neighbor and killing his one citizens.

If he was left unchecked it would be very likely that an event, similiar to a Tom Clancy novel, would occur in the US.

Then, instead of complaining about how this nation was led to war, the rants would be how this nation did not protect it's citizens.

Iraq is an ugly mess. #So is the entire middle east. There are similiarities -- people need to eat, raise families, etc. #There are differences -- religion, cultures, etc. #What works over here may not work over there. #And you better be damn sure I am not going to make any of our ladies cover their face because it offends your delicate sensabilities.

I know there are some things that went very wrong that ended up getting us into a shooting war, however, perhaps it's time for folks to take a few steps back, do some research and see exactly how long this has been moving down this path.

This is not a Bush problem, this is a world problem. And it's going to take some cooperation and cooler heads to move us back for the situation we are now in.

My thoughts

KE7DFP

11-17-2005, 11:23 PM

Hey-I agree, everyone felt Iraq was a good Move, and it was, before we went in. #It's still a good move. #Let's face it , this is about a lot more than Liberating the Iraqi people. #There's a balance game being played #between Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia. #IRAN #IS SCARED SHICKLESS HAVING US THERE. We were going to have to deal with them soon, anyway. #If we dealt with Iraq like the french would, we would have endless hell to pay further down the road. The were no inspectors allowed to inspect what needed to be inspected or we wouldn't of had to force inspections. So don't even try that liberal construct. #Iraq is a good move, and our exit strategy is win and get out. #Keep the politics out of it and just let the Marines kick butt, OOOOOH RAH! P.S. W0PEE- I was just being sarcastic about the "Cowbuy stuff"

KE7DFP

11-17-2005, 11:29 PM

Quote[/b] (n9xr @ Nov. 16 2005,19:53)]I appreciate you guys giving Clinton the credit for removing WMD's from Iraq. #I didn't think so, but I guess it is plausible.

Quote[/b] ]Clinton also addressed the ongoing impeachment crisis in the White House. #

I missed in this and in other articles where Clinton sustained American casualties. #Maybe someone can point this out. #Possibly it is supposed to be the intention of the President to loose thousands of US soldiers, in which case Clinton did not do so well.

Hopefully, in the near future, there will be impeachment proceedings to contend with with Meester Boosh. #

November 9 Xterminate Republicans #(and many Democrats too)
Who made you the spokesman for our troops? #Your necks not on the line, why do you think you've got a right to bring up casualties for your arguement? You haven't earned the right for an opinion on the fighting. Our soldiers disagree with you unanamously, and in fact you would disgust them.