NEW AUSSIE FOUNDATION LICENSE

[AA7BQ]

Australia has introduced an entry-level Foundation Amateur Radio license and
established a new overall licensing and certification structure. The
Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) put the new regulations
into effect October 19. Other rule changes combined Novice and Novice
Limited licensees into a new Standard license class, and all Limited,
Intermediate and Unrestricted licensees are now Advanced licensees with full
amateur privileges. Wireless Institute of Australia (WIA) President Michael
Owen, VK3KI, welcomed the "long-awaited" changes--in particular the new
Foundation license--and expressed the hope that they would encourage
newcomers.

"We also know that there will be many amateurs operating on the 40 and
20-meter bands for the first time with those bands available to Standard
licensees," he said. "We urge all amateurs to make all these newcomers
welcome." Owen also praised ACMA for what he called its "cooperative
approach" in establishing examination standards and procedures.

The first Foundation license was issued October 21 to Amanda Gray, who
requested the call sign VK4FRST before knowing that hers was, indeed, the
first Australian Foundation license issued. ACMA has adopted the distinctive
and unusual four-letter suffix starting with "F" for all VK Foundation
licensees.

Foundation licensees will have limited access to 80, 40, 15 and 10 meters as
well as the entire 2 meter and 70 cm bands using voice modes or "hand-keyed"
CW only (ie, no keyboard or computer-generated code). Licensees will be
permitted to run up to 10 W on SSB and 3 W on AM, FM and CW--although the
WIA wants ACMA to increase that limit to 10 W as well. Foundation licensees
may only use commercially manufactured transmitters. The new license is
similar to the Foundation class license that's been available in Great
Britain since 2002.

In addition to creation of the new Foundation license, ACMA amended
Australia's Amateur Radio regulations to regulate by necessary bandwidth
rather than by emission mode. The new rules permit the use of any emission
mode with a bandwidth not exceeding 8 kHz.

Said Owen: "The WIA believes that these changes to the Australian amateur
license structure will strengthen our hobby and encourage many more people
to become licensed radio amateurs." More information is on the ACMA Web site
http://www.acma.gov.au/ACMAINTER.65690:STANDARD::pc=PC_1256



Material from The ARRL Letter may be republished or reproduced in whole or
in part in any form without additional permission. Credit must be given to
The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League.

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (aa7bq @ Nov. 05 2005,10:48)]Foundation licensees
may only use commercially manufactured transmitters.
And so the trend continues, one more country establishes a class of licence in which the operator is prohibited from using homebrew or modified equipment.

Will that gradually apply to all classes of licence, and require the use of type-approved equipment, as in CB?

Once the use of homebrew equipment and modification of commercial and surplus equipment is eliminated, it will no longer be amateur radio. What will be left of the "service" will no longer serve a useful purpose. In that case, it would be in the public interest to eliminate amateur radio once and for all and give the spectrum to some other service that could put it to good use.

What better way is there for a new ham to learn something about the basics of radio than to build a simple low power cw transmitter and receiver and put it on the air as his or her first rig? Why are so many governments now actively discouraging this?

Oh, but hasn't Australia eliminated the code requirement? Well, so what? It's not that much more difficult to add an audio amplifier and modulator and run low power AM.

[K0RGR]

As one who has supported no-code access to HF in this country, I find some features of this license troubling.

First is the concentration of activity on voice modes. While 'hand generated' Morse operation is permitted, I wonder how many of these newbies will actually be found using that mode. Had digital modes, including low speed computer generated Morse been allowed, I suspect they'd be the preferred modes at this power level. What you have here is the foundation for a 'superCB' class inside the amateur bands.
I think this is a formula for trouble. At least in Europe, the amateur population and distribution of hams is such that the very low power foundation licensees can find lots of QSOs.

The second problem is the prohibition on homebrew equipment. I assume that the requirements are similar to those for the Foundation License in England. If so, the syllabus is not that much different for that of the Technician license here in the U.S., and we let our Techs build 1.5 KW transmitters if they want. We may not be very wise in doing so, but that is the fact.

[VK6NX]

Actually Gentlemen,

Since the Morse requirement was lifted we have more people doing morse code than ever here in VK6. This is a strange but pleasing phenomenon. I was actually against the removal of Morse but am now forced to admit that people still want to do it.

Cheers
Geoff
VK6NX

Hi Guys,
change is inevitable. Some of the newcomers on the radio may not be able to homebrew, so they buy ready made kit.
Weve had a structure here for a bit in the uk.
Foundation, intermediate and full, and a lot of people were worried about something that didn't matter.

I look forward to speaking to new friends on the wireless ( as well as old ones , of course ),

I'll certainly be listening for all these new cals, no matter what country they're in.

The bands won't be flooded by thousands of new stations clamouring for a frequency, it will all become a self-levelling playing field.

What do you chaps think ??

Howard

[VK4BZ]

Guys, I hear what you are saying about the "superCB" concept of the Foundation Licence, but, let's be honest - all the operator gets is a maximum of 10 watts output on SSB. They'd do better on CB!

To be honest, I started on CB back in the mid-1970's (with 4 watts AM) and ended up getting my novice then unrestricted licences within a matter of a few years. If it provides a door in for new operators, I'm all for it. My 13 year-old son is studying for his ticket but missed the cut-off date for the old novice licence, so he will be a "Foundation Licensee". He is interested in CW as well (just like his old man)! So, from my perspective, the proof of the licence will be in the effect it has.

By the way - I agree with a previous message from VK6 - there has been a lot of CW on the band lately - I can't find a clear spot on the low end of 40.

John: VK4BZ

[ON2PCO]

Dear OM's,

Belgium also has a 'Foundation' license since September 1st 2005 (2nd country in the world). Though there are some limitations (10W on HF and the 10m-band has been excluded), working on HF is a great experience : my first QSO on HF was on November 7th with WE2F (John in Averill Park - New-York). At that time I was running only 10W using my Kenwood TS120V QRP-transceiver and a folded Windom-dipole which was on the attic. Report (received) : 58 !!! Great to be in the radio-amateur-world !

Best regards, 73's de ON3PCO (Paul)

ON3PCO@Pandora.BE
Trudette's Homepage (my partner) (http://www.Trudette.NL)

[K0RGR]

Very good then... I was aware that the Foundation license had been widely considered a success in England, but I was a little concerned about the format in VK-land, where the population density is much lower, decreasing the opportunity for face-to-face interaction between the newcomers and their more experienced mentors. Hopefully, it will work well for you.

[M3GID]

As a foundation licence holder myself I am thrilled for our Autralian cousins who will benefit from this change to the licensing structure in VK Land. I know for a fact that many people here in "G" were against the idea from the outset and that as time has passed a fair majority of these have seen that it wasn't such a bad thing after all, none of the forecast problems have manifested and we all seem to get along just fine. Many of my fellow foundationers have taken up CW ( I was already a confirmed CW op) and my own son (8 yrs old) and wife have taken their exams and are now licensed, my son is learning morse and doing just fine. In the UK we do however have an issue with the reluctance of many newly qualified foundationers to go further up the ladder, myself I have taken and passed the Intermediate exams and now enjoy additional privelleges in this licence class. I am grateful for the hard work put in by our national society (the RSGB) for their un-stinting endeavours to bring about these changes and I wish the Australians as much success with their new system as many would say we have had with ours.

One big advantage for existing licencees is that the price of their used gear may increase as demand for it grows, and eventually the cost of new equipment should decrease as more people start buying, bear in mind that we have well in excess of 10,000 new foundationers now on the air in the UK, thats a lot of new and used gear!! Another good thing is that there is more chance of getting an answer on a quiet band when making a call!

Remember.........the airwaves belong to no-one.

73 all and God bless Australia

[K4JF]

Congratulations on the successful implementation of a workable entry-level license in UK and Australia. #One has been proposed in U.S. but it is meeting stiff opposition.

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Nov. 08 2005,07:00)]Congratulations on the successful implementation of a workable entry-level license in UK and Australia. #One has been proposed in U.S. but it is meeting stiff opposition.
We "had" a workable entry level license that included phone privileges on HF. The FCC did away with it in 1999.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (VK6NX @ Nov. 06 2005,20:23)]Actually Gentlemen,

Since the Morse requirement was lifted we have more people doing morse code than ever here in VK6. This is a strange but pleasing phenomenon. I was actually against the removal of Morse but am now forced to admit that people still want to do it.

Cheers
Geoff
VK6NX
A tribute to the resourcefulness of the Australian Amateurs, and the appreciation of history. You'll be hard pressed to find that here in new NCGs when the time comes.

I have a size 7 5/8 sombrero that I offer to munch if I am wrong with a picture posted here on QRZ if after a year there are more CW users in any appreciable numbers. Don't hold your breath.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] ]The first Foundation license was issued October 21 to Amanda Gray, who requested the call sign VK4FRST before knowing that hers was, indeed, the first Australian Foundation license issued. ACMA has adopted the distinctive
and unusual four-letter suffix starting with "F" for all VK Foundation licensees.

I propose all no coders have a similar call structure with "S" as the first letter of the suffix when upgraded to General...

[M3GID]

Hi Charles (I looked you up on QRZ!!) AG4YO,

Aren't you confusing two seperate issues here? This thread is discussing the new entry class of licence for VK amateurs and yet you seem to want to focus on whether or not the US removes the code requirements.

May I also (very respectfully) remind you that the band plan in which CW is "allocated" a small part on each of the HF bands, is only by convention, there is to the best of my knowledge, no law to reinfoirce this convention, so your supposition that voice will "take their spectrum" is a little overstated, having read in depth your very detailed profile, might I possibly put it to you in another way..........This fire you are currently fighting, ain't burning yet!! It may well burn sometime Charles, and if it does I very much hope to fight that particular fire alongside you and any one else that cares for CW - my own suspicions are that there is easily sufficient interest and newcomers to "the code" to ensure that it will out-last any of us around today.

Hpe work u sometime soon om

73 de Geoff
M3GID / 2E0AWU

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (M3GID @ Nov. 08 2005,09:25)]Hi Charles (I looked you up on QRZ!!) AG4YO,

Aren't you confusing two seperate issues here? This thread is discussing the new entry class of licence for VK amateurs and yet you seem to want to focus on whether or not the US removes the code requirements.

May I also (very respectfully) remind you that the band plan in which CW is "allocated" a small part on each of the HF bands, is only by convention, there is to the best of my knowledge, no law to reinfoirce this convention, so your supposition that voice will "take their spectrum" is a little overstated, having read in depth your very detailed profile, might I possibly put it to you in another way..........This fire you are currently fighting, ain't burning yet!! It may well burn sometime Charles, and if it does I very much hope to fight that particular fire alongside you and any one else that cares for CW - my own suspicions are that there is easily sufficient interest and newcomers to "the code" to ensure that it will out-last any of us around today.

Hpe work u sometime soon om

73 de Geoff
M3GID / 2E0AWU
Nice analogy, Geoff but the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) says that a Fire Department's "job one" is prevention (and of course safety). And my post before was mostly a boat motor in a soil pipe... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K0RGR]

Geoff, over here, the CW band edges were written in stone by the Lord Himself, and merely conveyed to us mortals by the FCC.

As someone else said, the establishment of a new entry license over here has been stiffed by the opposition.

10,000 newbies in the U.K.? I've got to get a better antenna up.

[M3GID]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Nov. 08 2005,12:28)]Geoff, over here, the CW band edges were written in stone by the Lord Himself, and merely conveyed to us mortals by the FCC.

As someone else said, the establishment of a new entry license over here has been stiffed by the opposition.

10,000 newbies in the U.K.? I've got to get a better antenna up.
Hi Bill (? or must it be William??)

Well of course far be it from me to point out that at the time of our lord the main medium for communication in your neck of the woods was smoke signals, which it may be fair to say was kind of a precurseur to "the code" - I'm a peace loving man (nowadays #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif ) and I like to think that we can all make our own way in this world of ours, personally I prefer talking to people but I do a whole lot of CW when it takes my fancy, lets all try and live together in peace and harmony, show a little respect for each other and hope that the next Ham will do the same thing........maybe keep our own houses in order huh? Show what big boys we can be all by ourselves! And yes.........yes.........yes.........get that aerial up and work some of us guys over here, you'll know the good ones easy........they all start with M3!!!!!

"the Lord acts in mysterious ways"

73 y'all

de Geoff

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (VK4BZ @ Nov. 07 2005,03:22)]Guys, I hear what you are saying about the "superCB" concept of the Foundation Licence, but, let's be honest - all the operator gets is a maximum of 10 watts output on SSB. They'd do better on CB!
John: VK4BZ
Five watts on 40 discrete channels is better than 10 watts anywhere within some specific bands ... uh... how?

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]Once the use of homebrew equipment and modification of commercial and surplus equipment is eliminated, it will no longer be amateur radio.

[B]Why do you say that? #Doesn't commercial gear, of which there are many companies to choose from (Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu to name but a few) up to your expectations or do you feel that you could build better?

[QUOTE]What better way is there for a new ham to learn something about the basics of radio than to build a simple low power cw transmitter and receiver and put it on the air as his or her first rig? #[QUOTE]

And what better way for a new ham to much up the airwaves with a transmitter that doesn't stay of frequencey and makes the hobby-service-listening experience less enjoyable because of it?

Chuck, AA1MN[B]

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (aa1mn @ Nov. 09 2005,10:39)]Quote[/b] ]Once the use of homebrew equipment and modification of commercial and surplus equipment is eliminated, it will no longer be amateur radio.

Why do you say that? Doesn't commercial gear, of which there are many companies to choose from (Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu to name but a few) up to your expectations or do you feel that you could build better?

Quote[/b] ]What better way is there for a new ham to learn something about the basics of radio than to build a simple low power cw transmitter and receiver and put it on the air as his or her first rig?

And what better way for a new ham to much up the airwaves with a transmitter that doesn't stay of frequencey and makes the hobby-service-listening experience less enjoyable because of it?

Chuck, AA1MN
I fixed your post for you above...

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (aa1mn @ Nov. 09 2005,10:39)]Quote[/b] ]Once the use of homebrew equipment and modification of commercial and surplus equipment is eliminated, it will no longer be amateur radio.

[B]Why do you say that? Doesn't commercial gear, of which there are many companies to choose from (Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu to name but a few) up to your expectations or do you feel that you could build better?
Well, then we could all just use our cell phones, then we won't have that bothersome QRM, QRN, QSB or code requirements to hinder our enjoyment.

If the FCC ever bans homebrew rigs, they can have my licence and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

When I purchase an appliance, I prefer names like Kitchenaid, Whirlpool or Frigidaire.

Yes, my personal expectations with my homebrew rigs and modified broadcast transmitter far exceed anything I could expect form Yaecomwood.

http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin....=106183 (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=106183)

[kd5rjz]

If we were to have a no-code foundation license in the US, why not give HF access Only in the code portions. It would even make more sense to upgrade all the NCT's to Tech Plus.

Forcing the Foundation classes to use QRP power levels is going to restrict them more or less to CW anyways, why not just give them CW-Only privleges with a decent level of power (50w?).

On a completely seperate topic, why don't we set aside a small portion of the CW sub-bands for under 15wpm code. I'd like to participate in some CW QSO's where I can actually copy every letter the other guy is sending.

[K4JF]

Contrary to the initial comment, there is no reason for the FCC to issue a "new" license. #Just reissue the Novice license with a few changes. #No code test. #Add some narrow SSB frequencies to correspond with the "novice subbands" in the CW portion (keeping the CW frequencies to encourage learning), raise the power limit to 100 watts (very few rigs do 75 watts out of the box). #Make it 2 years and not renewable. #Voila! #A real entry-level license. #Then the Technician can stiffen up on qualification and go back to what it is supposed to be - an experimenter's license.

All this would cost the FCC absolutely nothing but the time to implement. #The Novice category is still in the database. #(And there is nothing wrong with the name - I was proud to wear it back then!)

Probably not gonna happen. #Too easy.

[ON2PCO]

Quote[/b] (kd5rjz @ Nov. 10 2005,00:47)]Forcing the Foundation classes to use QRP power levels is going to restrict them more or less to CW anyways, why not just give them CW-Only privleges with a decent level of power (50w?).

On a completely seperate topic, why don't we set aside a small portion of the CW sub-bands for under 15wpm code. #I'd like to participate in some CW QSO's where I can actually copy every letter the other guy is sending.

As said before, 10W should do - for now that is http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif : using a simple (folded) Windom FD5 and QRP-transceiver (Kenwood TS120V), I make QSO's all over the world.
CW should be encouraged, it's a super-mode though lots of stations don't reduce their speed when a CW-beginner starts 'talking'. Perhaps setting aside a small portion of the CW sub-bands especially for CW-beginners would help indeed !

Hope to meet you all on the frequency,
73's,

Paul - ON3PCO - a Dutchman in Belgium ON3PCO@Pandora.BE
My QRZ-info (http://www.qrz.com/callsign/on3pco)
Dutch Painter - my wife's (non-commercial) site / Trudette's Homepage (http://www.Trudette.NL)

[M0GZS]

What people seem to forget is this is the entry exam, in the UK even the name gives it away, by passing you are not an 'M3' you are a foundation license holder, and as the name suuggests it should be the first step on the ladder, not a place where you can stay !

The problems are no time limit has been set, folks will just sit on that level, setting a power limit that will rarely be enforced was another isuue, better to have limited bands, perhaps that would encourage people to move on and up.

Multi-Band CB and Deregulation here we come http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]Yes, my personal expectations with my homebrew rigs and modified broadcast transmitter far exceed anything I could expect form Yaecomwood.


Does that mean your expectations actually play out in reality? #Or is this another case of ego exceeding skills?

Chuck, AA1MN

[M3GID]

Quote[/b] (M0GZS @ Nov. 11 2005,02:03)]What people seem to forget is this is the entry exam, in the UK even the name gives it away, by passing you are not an 'M3' you are a foundation license holder, and as the name suuggests it should be the first step on the ladder, not a place where you can stay !

The problems are no time limit has been set, folks will just sit on that level, setting a power limit that will rarely be enforced was another isuue, better to have limited bands, perhaps that would encourage people to move on and up.

Multi-Band CB and Deregulation here we come http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Well, well, well!

It didn't take long Graeme did it?

So the illustrious and dizzy heights of "M-Zero-dom" (M0XXX) finally get through and break surface, with the ink barely dry on your licence you have the temerity to criticise other licencees............licences legitimitely and legally acquired in no different a manner than you acquired your own, just what gives you the god given right to dictate who and what get access to the bands and upon what conditions??

The argument is long since closed, the war won and the victory celebrations all but a distant memory!

The number following your M or your G is no indicator of the quality of the operator on the mic or the key, as your bigotted, blinkered and naive opinion clearly demonstrates!

You can't even get your facts right, and clearly eloquence and reasoned argument are beyond you!

I am licenced as a radio amateur, I hold an M3 which is personal to me and me alone, barring the power restriction, what can you do that I can't?? Bearing in mind that I am also a 2E0 of course, and therefore have access to all the bands you have access to, are you a beter person than me? A better op than me? How many words a minute on CW can you send / receive (can you do CW at all?) What evidence are you presenting with your "FACTS"? What statistics are you referring to in your claim that M3's just stay as M3's? Am I the exception to the "rule"?

Oh, and err, by the way, how long have you been licenced old chap? What is the basis of your experience in which we are privelleged to read your opinions on?

So tempted am I to spout off in a similar vein, but my sense of better judgement and fair play holds me back, how tempting to invite you to kiss my derriere...........

Grow up!

On behalf of myself and all the M3's I know

Geoff

[M0GZS]

Nope didn't take long, I said to the lead instructor at the foundation course I completed, that I thought too much had been given to foundation license holders.

I can't dictate anything; I can only have an opinion.

Nor do I have to resort to personal attacks to back up my opinion, I just state it as I hold it.

The war won?

What can I do better than you? I don't even know you, so would never endeavor to second guess your skills, personage or operational talents as an intermediate license holder, you however must know me by your personal remarks? So feel free to elucidate.

I don't and can't operate CW.

I am not presenting any facts or FACTS, and clearly for one reason or another you decided to gain the intermediate license, so the foundation course worked for you.

Since
June 2004 M3GZS
October 2004 2E0GZS
October 2005 M0GZS

Life.

I honestly thought you had, but please don't hold back, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I think grow old is probably the only route left.

Many thanks to you all

Graeme

[M3GID]

Then no further questions your honour.....the defence rests!

[M0GZS]

Quote[/b] ]Hello Graeme,

treading on thin ice aren’t you mate, 5 entries (including mine) in your guest book and 3 of them are from M3’s / 2M0/2E0 - given your views on qrz.com I find that rather an irony..........

Don’t you old chap?

Geoff
M3GID / 2E0AWU

Not really ironic, but flattering. And if it encourages people to build on the foundation they have achieved, it's got to be a good thing.

Thanks for looking me up, and past my best on to Saranne & James, and wish them luck in their progressions.

Graeme

[vk2oz]

well this is great the new foundation licence get it with no effort stay foundation as long as you like 10 watts like hell who is going to police that the wia you bet not this is the straw that broke the camels back fer me this should have been setup like the russian system slowly upgrade your licence via courses with your radio club build a simple station sorry did i say build thats dead here and this new fiasco of a licence has done nothing to help our hobby shame wia shame on you..73's vk2oz........i wont be talking to this class of licence holder nothing but glorified cbers...sksksk

[ON2PCO]

Please be a 'healthy' radio-amateur and enjoy and stimulate this fantastic world of communication; #be an ambassador of peace everywhere. Tnx.

A humble ON3 (foundation)-station from Belgium,
73's, Paul - ON3PCO

ON3PCO@Pandora.BE
Trudette's Homepage (my wife) - a Dutch Artist (http://www.trudette.nl)
My QRZ-info (http://www.qrz.com/callsign/on3pco/)

[g1uqf]

Well done Australia. You will get some remarks from the "Fossil Radio Club", don't let it worry you. In UK. we give our foundation candidates live on air training. Something the fossils weren't allowed. Good luck. Use them or loose them. See you all in mid 06. Bob.

[M3GID]

Quote[/b] (M0GZS @ Nov. 11 2005,17:20)]Not really ironic, but flattering. And if it encourages people to build on the foundation they have achieved, it's got to be a good thing.

Thanks for looking me up, and past my best on to Saranne & James, and wish them luck in their progressions.

Graeme
Hi Graeme,

I regret (now) the tone of my first reply to your initial posting although at the time it seemed measured, your subsequent concilliatory stance is rather humbling, therefore I feel compelled to apologise for lashing out. I hope you can understand how and why the subject matter is one that I hold dear.

There are a great variety of ages, abilities and characters holding foundation licence, all with varying levels of expertise and competence, many will in time progress further, some will not. That can only be a matter for individuals to decide, based on their levels of interest, their ability (both academic and operationally) and upon the opportunities to progress available in their immediate vicinity, although I am equally sure that some will not progress further simply as a result of the costs involved.

I do not remember such a distinction between the old class A and B licences, nor do I recall any such outcry when the CW requirement was dropped in the UK and thus giving access to the HF bands for the VHF/UHF'ers.

Your response to my "grow up" was a good one, "grow old" you said.........let me take that one step further and say to all who enjoy our hobby...............

Live and let live!

Thanks for the good wishes to Saranne & James which is reciprocatedin equal measure.

73 es gud luck om

de Geoff

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (aa1mn @ Nov. 11 2005,06:51)]Quote[/b] ]Yes, my personal expectations with my homebrew rigs and modified broadcast transmitter far exceed anything I could expect form Yaecomwood.


Does that mean your expectations actually play out in reality? #Or is this another case of ego exceeding skills?

Chuck, AA1MN
Having had the pleasure of hearing K4KYV on the air back in the early 60s, I can assure you that his comment is right on the button.


Ah, to hear W4EBG on the air again.

[zl2aub]

Gentelmen How many home brew rigs have you worked recently ? Pete zl2aub

[vk2oz]

Quote[/b] (g1uqf @ Nov. 12 2005,06:01)]Well done Australia. You will get some remarks from the "Fossil Radio Club", don't let it worry you. In UK. we give our foundation candidates live on air training. Something the fossils weren't allowed. Good luck. Use them or loose them. See you all in mid 06. Bob.
To g1uqf i expect comments like yours to come from people that are uneducated and ignorant you dont know if i am an old fossil as you put it or anything about me you canbe assured i will not stoop to ignorant and belittling remarks like the one you placed on this forum .The comments i made are justified as here in vkland amateur radio has degenerated into nothing more than glorified cb there is very little or no homebrew all is commercial even no you can hear socalled amateurs saying i just purchased a dipole or some other antenna or if you ask some a technical question such as "my idling plate current is varying on tune up or when i speaking into a microphone "the answer i got was well come over and see how my meter performs how the needle moves" great reply isnt it that person couldnt tell me that there may have been a neutralization problem causing the finals to go into self oscillation or simply taking off.This is my whole gripe the standard of amateur radio has declined and i cant see that this new foundation licence will help it still is going to be go buy a rig and an antenna get on air noway to police the 10watts permitted or any incentive to upgrade they didnt place a time limit on this licence the easiest way to get something is to get it for nothing and this is it.So this crap about bolstering the hobby doesnt wash you may get quantity not quality and i always thought quality is what amateur service was all about .So calling me an old fossil shows me you are in the quantity group not quality i hope i am wrong for we need all the quality we can get as here in vk our hobby has become stagnent there are no more groups talking about homebrew just groups rambling about anything else but ham radio not that one must be totally be talking radio but it would be nice to hear i built this or that i am a homebrewer and proud of it and still enjoy building my station amplifiers antennas qrp gear etc and am always learning after 35 years on air and hope to continue if this makes me a old fossil i am proud to be one...73's...MIKE...VK2OZ..

[m0cus]

10,000 Foundation licence holders in the UK?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Where are they all then. Sorry I forgot I only use the radio mobile in the day time and usually use HF late in the evening so I suppose they are either at school or in bed. Seriously though if you took out all of the wives, children and #ex 11m operators how much new blood has the foundation licence really created? 10,000 in the UK, maybe but I bet less than 10% are active. And for what its worth having a 10w power restriction is a joke. It is totally un-enforcable. I know many foundation licence holders that use 100w plus. Just look at the QRZ gallery, you will see many foundation and intermediate station photographs with a 1kw linear in the background. A time limit and band restrictions are the only way forward I feel otherwise there is no incentive to progress.

[M3GID]

Quote[/b] (m0cus @ Nov. 13 2005,00:20)]10,000 Foundation licence holders in the UK?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Where are they all then. Sorry I forgot I only use the radio mobile in the day time and usually use HF late in the evening so I suppose they are either at school or in bed. Seriously though if you took out all of the wives, children and #ex 11m operators how much new blood has the foundation licence really created? 10,000 in the UK, maybe but I bet less than 10% are active. And for what its worth having a 10w power restriction is a joke. It is totally un-enforcable. I know many foundation licence holders that use 100w plus. Just look at the QRZ gallery, you will see many foundation and intermediate station photographs with a 1kw linear in the background. A time limit and band restrictions are the only way forward I feel otherwise there is no incentive to progress.
Undoubtedly there are many people who since passing their foundation licence have yet to take to the air, maybe when the time is right for the them they will do, undoubtedly some won't. Look at car drivers, how many licence holders don't even own a car? My dad has never had a car in his entire life!

Without wishing to belittle the hobby, it's heritage and it's distinguished origins, things have moved along apace and our hobby must reflect these changes or die. Everyone agrees that numbers were in decline, something had to be done to address that and it is my firm belief that at least in the UK, in Australia and a handful of other courageous and forward thinking countries this has now been done. #Whilst it might not be perfect, it certainly has had an immediate impact, albeit one that has not met with unanimous approval.

Is it simply a matter of "that's not what I had - why should you have it?" or is there a legitimate justification to the rants and raves.

And for Mike - VK2OZ - Mike, in the UK, part of the course involves building simple apparatus, usually an SWR bridge or similar, the intermediate course then takes this further and builds several pieces of larger more intricate and complex equipment which often includes TX\RX. My first homebrew was a single band 2w CW only transceiver for 20m - I built this nearly 20 years ago under the tutelage of my great friend and mentor Ian, G3ROO - I have little interest in such constructing now though, although I am very very interested in experimenting with antennae and am rapidly becoming a bit of a guru on the subject.....watch this space for some of my current projects!!

Surely people like you Mike, should be taking the newcomers and showing them the way, helping and guiding rather than ignoring them in the hope that they will go away and leave you alone....who will you call upon to climb up your tower or renew your 80m dipole when you are too old and fragile to do it yourself? Who will I talk to when all the oldtimers are departed from this ife up to the great shack in the sky? Come on Mike...don't close your mind to it in an obstinate manner, question your own views and opinions before you question anyone elses (especially as it is a fait accompli). Hope to work you one day old man.

I wish everyone well, whoever they are and howsoever far they wish to take their involvement in the hobby, I absolutely adore doing what I do in ham radio - it is a wholly fulfilling and rewarding past-time and I only hope that everyone that enters the hobby gets even half as much satisfaction as I do from it.

73 de Geoff

[wb9mcw]

CONGRATS TO VK LAND....This is a good start in the right direction!!! Hopefully the ARRL is paying attention and they do the RIGHT THING someday to save our fine hobby here in the U.S.A. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[vk3tex]

I will be elmering a new foundation licencee when he gets his basic ticket. He is very keen, but would like to know more. He hopes to one day upgrade to a standard licence. i will do my best to teach him all that i know.

This will be much better than reading text books for him as i can teach him more practical things about radio.
That includes building home brew gear and antennas.

In time, he should be quite competant to indulge in all aspects of Amateur Radio.

What irks me off is the silly old fart attitude of VK2OZ Mike when you say you will not talk to the new calls. What makes you Mr High and Almighty? Cause you've had 35 years on radio? Everyone was a beginner once and we didn't all start out wise and Knowledgeable...

You come from a homebrew generation of Amateurs which built fairly simple gear by todays standards. That was then and this is now. Sadly, not too many hams of today could even match the specs of todays commercial manufacturers if they designed a transceiver from scratch. (This is not taking into account some of the excellent Kits out there. These are few and far between.)

Mike, VK2OZ, you should get your finger out of your backside and elmer a new foundation licencee, and put something back into this great hobby of ours instead of carrying on like a cranky silly old fart!

If it's all too much for you, you should maybe donate your gear to a new foundation licencee and take up a less stressfull hobby like golf, oragami etc....Sounds like you have blown a few fuses over this new licence...Sad...

73, VK3TEX, Les.

[VK7NCW]

Well said Les (VK3TEX),I endorse your remarks about Michael Mihailovic (vk2oz) wholeheartedly.He sure was lucky to have been born with total knowledge about all aspects of Amateur Radio.Everyone else had to start from the beginning.
He obviously knows that the Internet exists because he is using this site to be-little the new Foundation Licence.
Surely he knows that many thousands of prospective "Hams" have been lost by the ease of using the Internet.The new UK and Australian Foundation Licences will hopefully bring a few more thousand back to Amateur Radio.
That's a good idea Les,I know of three young fellows about to sit for their Foundation Licence who would love to accept vk2oz's gear.Then he would not have to put up with the indignity of hearing these young people on air.
73,Paul

[vk4dx]

Mike, either you had a bad day when you typed your last two posts or it might be the lack of respect. And I'm also not sure whether it's about the respect for others or for yourself.

But anyway, I think there is one problem with our hobby and that is the egoism of the elite. Your contribution to the problem is enormous. There are people who are willing to spend their time and learn something about our hobby, to try it, to become one of us and all you do is spitting on their effort.

When I started with ham radio I was 17 years old. I enrolled to an AR course at the local club and out of about 15 people who started some 10 passed the final test and got the licence. Twenty years later I know about at least 4 of those who are very active amateurs including myself. If it wasn't for those people who sacrificed their own time to teach me so many things I wouldn't be here today. And not only me, many others, maybe all of us.

You are whinging how people do not build radios, antennas and other equipment, well mate, there are many different aspects of this hobby and if you think that everyone should build radios then you are wrong. I, for one, have no interest in building radios, not at all, but I have other interests.

I read in your profile on QRZ.com that you like to restore old radios but have very little time for on-air activities. Why ? Isn't that primary activity of ham radio, to be on air and make contacts. If we all go into restoring radios, who is going to use it ? Martians ?

Mike, don't be selfish, share your enthusiasm with our new friends, you've been around for a while and the knowledge that you have will do you no good once you go six feet under. Pass it on the next generation and let them live their radio-dream just like you did. It may be different but it's THEIR dream. We have no right to take it away from them.

However, if you are not willing to help them and have a bit time to spare, I have cousin who lives near your suburb, he's eleven but he might give you plenty of help on your spelling and grammar skills. After all aren't we all here to help each other.

Regards, Mike VK4DX
__
VK4DX contest calendar (http://www.vk4dx.net)

[M3GID]

WOW!!

VK4DX - MIKE

Bravo old man! Couldn't have put it better myself (although I tried!).

hpe c u on air soon om (yeah right, with 10 watts and propo as is! Just watch this space worked VK4 twice in past couple of months, hope to get you in the log too!)

73 de Geoff

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (wb9mcw @ Nov. 13 2005,13:45)]CONGRATS TO VK LAND....This is a good start in the right direction!!! #Hopefully the ARRL is paying attention and they do the RIGHT THING someday to save our fine hobby here in the U.S.A. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Uh, if you are talking about a "Foundation License", they already have. I don't agree with the details, myself, but they have done it.

[M0GZS]

Quote[/b] (vk4dx @ Nov. 14 2005,07:03)]Isn't that primary activity of ham radio, to be on air and make contacts.
Well it is one of them. I've posted this before on another site, so appologies if you've seen it http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

"Conditions of use from the UK BR68/f

Purpose

1(1) The Licensee shall use the Station for the purpose of self-training in communication by radio telecommunications which use (without limiting the generality of the foregoing) includes technical investigations. "

So I suppose if you choose to self train in the art of propogation, by seeing how many friendly chats you can have at certain times of the day over various bands, then that would be OK.

I'm not sure how some of the repeater quizzes fit onto it, unless all the questions are radio based ?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[M3GID]

Quote[/b] (M0GZS @ Nov. 14 2005,12:37)]Quote[/b] (vk4dx @ Nov. 14 2005,07:03)]Isn't that primary activity of ham radio, to be on air and make contacts.
Well it is one of them. I've posted this before on another site, so appologies if you've seen it #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

"Conditions of use from the UK BR68/f

Purpose

1(1) The Licensee shall use the Station for the purpose of self-training in communication by radio telecommunications which use (without limiting the generality of the foregoing) includes technical investigations. "

So I suppose if you choose to self train in the art of propogation, by seeing how many friendly chats you can have at certain times of the day over various bands, then that would be OK.

I'm not sure how some of the repeater quizzes fit onto it, unless all the questions are radio based ?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yeah but Graeme what exactly is your point? Quoting from BR68/f is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, is that the only argument you have left?

I'm not going to criticise, what's the point? But know this, self training can be as much about procedure, operating skills, different modes, propogation, antenna's, logging, computing, it's almost infinite...if you interpret "without limiting the generality of the forgoing" in the manner it was intended, and how often do you read the BR68 to ensure that what you are doing is in accordance with the limitations of your own licence?

You are not, nor are your peers or your predecessors, the guardians of the airwaves, you do not have the right to control who or what or how other users get the privelleges of using them so give it up mate, it just makes you look like a sour old windbag, it's happenned and you aint gonna change zip, so take it with good grace and move on.........do us all a favour!

de Geoff

[M0GZS]

Honestly Geoff, you need to develop a thicker skin.

I was joining in with other users comments, not arguing, a statement was made, I replied, in what I regarded as a light hearted manner.

You made exactly the same point as me, just in more words, on-air contact isn't the main point, it’s an aspect.

And yes I have to regularly check the BR68, as a relative newcomer to the technical pursuit; I do not wish to operate outside the terms of my license, when the t&c's are freely available.

Thanks

[wb9mcw]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Nov. 13 2005,09:22)]Quote[/b] (wb9mcw @ Nov. 13 2005,13:45)]CONGRATS TO VK LAND....This is a good start in the right direction!!! Hopefully the ARRL is paying attention and they do the RIGHT THING someday to save our fine hobby here in the U.S.A. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Uh, if you are talking about a "Foundation License", they already have. I don't agree with the details, myself, but they have done it.
THNX 4 POINTING IT OUT TO ME K4JF !!! I was wrong the ARRL is on top of it after all.... http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin....=105911 (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=105911)
I stand corrected !!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

NOW IF THE FCC WILL LISTEN TO THE ARRL AND GET IT IMPLIMENTED ASAP!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[vk2oz]

Well i didnt think that i would attract so much abuse for being honest enough to express an opinion,firstly i dont begrudge anyone getting a licence and coming on air i didnt begrudge the novice licence and as a matter of fact was a strong supporter of such a licence when it came out in the 70's.As for me putting something back into the hobby i did for many years i was involved with teaching prospective candidates to sit for the novice ticket not at a club but in my garage and we built simple projects such as recievers,transmitters both am cw dsb and yes even a simple ssb tx using the simple polyphase system.
What i am against with this new foundation licence is that it does little to enhance our wonderful hobby what comes easy is taken for granted there is no incentive to better one self through learning i dont say all but a majority will see it as "this will do me" there is no time limit on this licence you can stay a holder of the foundation licence forever and another thing who is going to police the 10watts we all know what human nature is like.As for me donating my gear to a new licence holder i doubt if they would be able to even use it properly as it is hybrid gear you dont just turn it on and press the button you actually have to tune it up valve finals but all is solid state up front i know some hams who have this type of gear and cant tune it properly sad isnt it when you have to go to a fellow hams shack after being told my rig just wont put any power out then you ask the person to tune it up they have no idea so i show them,one chap after this got a texta and marked out all the knob positions on the face of the rig tells you something about the standard of the hobby and the levels it has reached.You say that homebrew cant attain the technical standards of today it's not about that it is about the pleasure one gets from building something no matter how small and seeing it work and saying "well i did it" learning as you go along great things come from simple things. I was not born with ham radio i learnt it in public school i had a great teacher who was a old fart as you put it who ran classes after school for the 10 of us who were interested we built simple recievers test gear converters to listen to 2mtrs but he was an old fart well that is my reply to you Les i didnt even try to offend you like you did me with your old fart comments. 73's...Mike...VK2OZ..sksksk. ps this reply is in regards to comments posted by vk3tex...vk7ncw...vk4dx and paul i humbly apologise for my english it could be due to the fact that i was not priveledged to be born of english stock....bye...

[vk2oz]

To mike vk4dx sorry i called you paul but i did this reply at 12:00am and was tired .

[M3GID]

One thing is for sure guys...............everyone on this forum is clearly passionate about their chosen hobby and that in it's own light is admirable, but listen....when you came into the hobby, were you laying the law down then?? Probably not huh? So why now?

What are the bets, if every single one of us were in the same room now for more than a half an hour we'd probably all come out as friends with many common views and a great deal of respect for one another.

Graeme, it's been a pleasure arguing with you mate and I fully accept that you have the right to an opinion and indeed the right to express it.

73 de Geoff

[vk3tex]

Quote[/b] (vk2oz @ Nov. 15 2005,06:14)]Well i didnt think that i would attract so much abuse for being honest enough to express an opinion,firstly i dont begrudge anyone getting a licence and coming on air i didnt begrudge the novice licence and as a matter of fact was a strong supporter of such a licence when it came out in the 70's.As for me putting something back into the hobby i did for many years i was involved with teaching prospective candidates to sit for the novice ticket not at a club but in my garage and we built simple projects such as recievers,transmitters both am cw dsb and yes even a simple ssb tx using the simple polyphase system.
What i am against with this new foundation licence is that it does little to enhance our wonderful hobby what comes easy is taken for granted there is no incentive to better one self through learning i dont say all but a majority will see it as "this will do me" there is no time limit on this licence you can stay a holder of the foundation licence forever and another thing who is going to police the 10watts we all know what human nature is like.As for me donating my gear to a new licence holder i doubt if they would be able to even use it properly as it is hybrid gear you dont just turn it on and press the button you actually have to tune it up valve finals but all is solid state up front i know some hams who have this type of gear and cant tune it properly sad isnt it when you have to go to a fellow hams shack after being told my rig just wont put any power out then you ask the person to tune it up they have no idea so i show them,one chap after this got a texta and marked out all the knob positions on the face of the rig tells you something about the standard of the hobby and the levels it has reached.You say that homebrew cant attain the technical standards of today it's not about that it is about the pleasure one gets from building something no matter how small and seeing it work and saying "well i did it" learning as you go along great things come from simple things. I was not born with ham radio i learnt it in public school i had a great teacher who was a old fart as you put it who ran classes after school for the 10 of us who were interested we built simple recievers test gear converters to listen to 2mtrs but he was an old fart well that is my reply to you Les i didnt even try to offend you like you did me with your old fart comments. 73's...Mike...VK2OZ..sksksk. ps this reply is in regards to comments posted by vk3tex...vk7ncw...vk4dx and paul i humbly apologise for my english it could be due to the fact that i was not priveledged to be born of english stock....bye...
Hi Mike,VK2OZ,
I'm sorry old chap, but i am sticking with my comments. and i was not intentionally abuseing you, but there may have been a bit of sarcasm thrown in there toward the end of my post http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

To address your first comment you say that;
"I don't begrudge anyone getting a licence and coming on air"

Well it CERTAINLY SOUNDS like you have a GRUDGE against the new foundation licence holders. They hold a valid licence to you know...

You say you taught many candidates for the novice ticket and that is great. What made you stop?
I bet your nearest club would be glad to have you on board teaching prospective candidates for ALL the licence classes. Then you could teach all the folks how to tune valve gear etc. If you dont want to join a club you could be a guest speaker at any club on any topic and i bet they would love to have you there. Your knowledge should not be wasted, but should be passed onto future generations. Think about it Mike...

You also say that the majority will stay on the foundation licence. How can you prove this without statistics Mike? This licence has only just come out, or if this is just your gut feeling, then that is meaningless...You have no proof...

As for policing of the 10watt power output why do you assume everyone wants to run big power? Ever heard of QRP and it's challenges? Why do you assume everyone will break the law? There are CB'rs out there every day using big power, who polices them? Probably no-one,but at least in the Amateur service we have each other to police, even if ACMA don't have the resources to.
Do you think the standard and advanced classes are not guilty of turning up the wick on there amps for that DX contact? Who polices them? Do they need policeing if they are not interefering with anyone? Can YOU tell if they are running illegal power? Tough questions eh?

You have to look outside the square Mike, the difference today is that the foundation licence holders have that basic licence, they can build stuff like ATU, antennas, RX,
power supplies, etc, etc,(Sadly,not transmitters, due to interference potential... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #)And most importantly, they can do these things on the air.(compare notes, etc..)
But every foundation licence candidate in our area has joined our club and they are keen to do these things.

I'm sorry to call you a silly old fart Mike, i am guilty of PRE-JUDGING you, and if you are not one, i'm sorry.
But you have started to show signs of the SOF syndrome.

The syptoms are;
1: Narrow-mindedness
2: Prejudice
3: Inflated Ego
4: Crankyness
5: I know more than anyone else attitude
6: I know whats best for Amateur Radio attitude
And there are many other symptoms which you can probably think of which i haven't.

You said it yourself Mike, " great things come from simple things"
Maybe great things will come from this new licence, only time will tell. You should at least give it the benefit of the doubt...
You should take a step back sometimes Mike, and listen to yourself sometimes. Then you will know what we are hearing from you.
Get down to your local club, meet some new candidates,make some new friends, hell, it might even motivate you to start teaching again...You can never have too many friends Mike...
PS Your english is good Mike, but it makes it easier to read if you break up you post with paragraphs.
Mike, it's not a privelege to be born of english stock, but it is to live in this great country of ours....

73 Les VK3TEX.

[vk2oz]

Hi Les vk3tex.
Well i read ur reply and i agree with some points tes i know there are amateurs guilty of running more then the rules and conditions stipulate but that doesnt justify compounding the problem.
As for teaching at the local club there is no more local club here it just vanished due to lack of interest in the end only a handful of the same old faces turned up.
Les i never said i know more than anyone i think i said earlier in the piece that i am still learning today one never stops i am trying to learn to use this computer properly and for me it aint easy i have only just invested in this computer mainly for ham radio digital modes.
Anyway thanks fer replying to me and no hard feelings Les maybe one day we will talk on air as for friends i had people which i thought were my good friends but sad to say Les in many cases got burnt so now only have one good friend better one true friend than many dishonest friends.
See you on air one day gud luck with ur teaching some new people it's a good feeling when they pass you know you have achieved something......73's....Mike....VK2OZ....SKSKSK

Hi Chaps,
I find the following helps in times of crisis:


THE HAM PRAYER

Lord, thou knowest better than I know myself that I am growing older and will someday be old. Keep me from the fatal habit of thinking I must say something on every subject and on every occasion.

Release me from craving to straighten out everybody's affairs.

Make me thoughtful but not moody; helpful but not bossy. With my vast store of wisdom it seems a pity not to use it all, but Thou knowest Lord that I want a few friends at the end.

Keep my mind free from the recital of endless details; give me the wings to get to the point. Seal my lips on my aches and pains. They are increasing and love of rehearsing them is becoming sweeter as the years go by. I dare not ask for grace enough to enjoy the tales of other's pains, but help me to endure them with patience.

I dare not ask for improved memory, but for a growing humility and a lessening of cocksuredness when my memory seems to clash with the memories of others.

Teach me the glorious lesson that occasionally I may be mistaken.

Keep me reasonably sweet; I do not want to be a Saint – ( some of them are so hard to live with ) - but a sour old person is one of the crowning works of the Devil.

Give me the ability to see good things in unexpected places and talents in unexpected people. And, give me, O Lord, the grace to tell them so.

AMEN

73, Howard

[K4JF]

Thanks, Howard. That is a wonderful prayer - I think I'll frame it and hang it on the shack wall!!

A BIG hello Jim,
glad you liked the prayer, and I thought I knew that callsign of yours.
We worked 14 Aug 2004 on 14MHZ, when I was using my other call M0WEM ( Whisky Every Morning ) and we had a chuckle about K4 Just Fine.
Radio should be fun as we proved,
regards to all in Greenville,
73 Howard, M3WEM, M0WEM, G7XYZ

[M5AKA]

The Chelmsford Amateur Radio Society (CARS) were recently approached by Peter Kutas VK2UPK of the Westlakes Amateur Radio Club.

Peter wanted to make use of the CARS UK Foundation Power Point slides to produce a version customised for the Australian Foundation licence.

CARS readily agreed to the idea and Peter adapted the CARS slides to suit the Australian Licence.
The Australian slides can now be downloaded from

http://www.westlakesarc.org.au/

The original CARS UK Foundation, Intermediate and Advanced Power Point Slides can be downloaded from

http://www.g0mwt.org.uk/training

For further information on the Chelmsford Amateur Radio Society contact the secretary Martyn G1EFL
Tel: +44 (0)1245 469008
E-mail: info2006@g0mwt.org.uk
Website: http://www.g0mwt.org.uk/
---------------
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---------------

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (m3wem @ Nov. 16 2005,11:17)]A BIG hello Jim,
glad you liked the prayer, and I thought I knew that callsign of yours.
We worked 14 Aug 2004 on 14MHZ, when I was using my other call M0WEM ( Whisky Every Morning ) and we had a chuckle about K4 Just Fine.
Radio should be fun as we proved,
regards to all in Greenville,
73 Howard, M3WEM, M0WEM, G7XYZ
Thanks, Howard & 73. #I really enjoyed the info on your town that accompanied your QSL. #In fact, I liked it so well, I added a page to my website about my Greenville. #That is something that is great about ham radio: #meeting great people, having fun, and learning from each other!

My best to you and all around you!!
73 de K4 Jack Frost (it has turned cold here!) #
(ex: WA4 Long Hairy Legs - given to me by a ham who saw me in the kilt!!)

[kd4mxe]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Nov. 16 2005,08:55)]Thanks, Howard. #That is a wonderful prayer - I think I'll frame it and hang it on the shack wall!!
k4jf - yes if it will help there are a lot of them here in the u s of a that need to hang it on there wall to,73 Bill