Latest Advancement in Contesting

[KQ6XA]

How wonderfully advanced the new ham contest stations are now, with operators reaching maximum scores through machine-like precision! A few buttons are pushed by the contest operator to send callsigns and automatically generate signal report numbers. Computers log and check everything, rotate beams, switch antennas, and even QSY in response to a rare DX cluster spot.

Well, the time is now, to take contesting to the next logical step in ham radio evolution: eliminate the human factor entirely!

Enter the ultimate appliance: the Automated Contesting Robot (ACR)

Automated Contesting Robot, containing the most advanced computing power available, is so much better suited to contesting than humans are. ACR doesn't need a human to press the start and stop button, because the time/date of the contest is automatically downloaded from contesting websites. ACR roams all the amateur bands freely, quickly and efficiently exchanging reports with other ACRs... and ACR is so much more capable of exchanging accurate and truthful signal reports than humans. After all, computers don't make duplicate QSO errors! ACR doesn't take it personally if a frequency is already in use, or if another ACR tries to take over its frequency... ACR simply increases transmitter power, swings the beam, or QSYs.

ACR doesn't get weary during long 48 hour contests. As Automated Contesting Robots become fully utilized by every great contest operator in the world, the duration of contests will be expanded to weeks, months, or even the entire year. Just think, contest lovers, we can soon look forward to continuous contests on the ham bands!

ACR does all the preparation for a contest beforehand, without procrastination. The stored credit card information entered by the purchaser of the ACR is used for other functions:

1. ACR orders the 6-over-6 stacked beams required for every band and emails contracts to construction crews for installation of the entire contesting station hardware system.

2. ACR orders the IC-7800s and high powered amplifiers for each band and has them installed by qualified technicians.

3. Of course, from time to time, the ACR would also order hardware upgrades for itself, such as 100GB of RAM to continue to operate at full potential.

And ACR takes care of all that messy after-contest work before resetting for the next contest:

1. ACR exchanges databases with all other ACRs in the world, comparing scores within microseconds.
2. ACR orders the immediate delivery of award plaques and gold trophies online, which are Fedex'd overnight to the "Contest Operator" for instant gratification.

The mundane chores of contesting are now completely solved by the ACR appliance, leaving the ACR owner to maintain high standings amongst the ranks of the World's Greatest Contest Operators, while basking in the eternal adoration of fellow hams.

73---Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA




http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC9ECI]

This is newsworthy how?

[k1lwi]

Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Oct. 31 2005,21:09)]How wonderfully advanced the new ham contest stations are now, with operators reaching maximum scores through machine-like precision! A few buttons are pushed by the contest operator to send callsigns and automatically generate signal report numbers. Computers log and check everything, rotate beams, switch antennas, and even QSY in response to a rare DX cluster spot.

Well, the time is now, to take contesting to the next logical step in ham radio evolution: eliminate the human factor entirely!

Enter the ultimate appliance: the Automated Contesting Robot (ACR)

Automated Contesting Robot, containing the most advanced computing power available, is so much better suited to contesting than humans are. ACR doesn't need a human to press the start and stop button, because the time/date of the contest is automatically downloaded from contesting websites. #ACR roams all the amateur bands freely, quickly and efficiently exchanging reports with other ACRs... and ACR is so much more capable of exchanging accurate and truthful signal reports than humans. After all, computers don't make duplicate QSO errors! ACR doesn't take it personally if a frequency is already in use, or if another ACR tries to take over its frequency... ACR simply increases transmitter power, swings the beam, or QSYs.

ACR doesn't get weary during long 48 hour contests. As Automated Contesting Robots become fully utilized by every great contest operator in the world, the duration of contests will be expanded to weeks, months, or even the entire year. Just think, contest lovers, we can soon look forward to continuous contests on the ham bands!

ACR does all the preparation for a contest beforehand, without procrastination. The stored credit card information entered by the purchaser of the ACR is used for other functions:

1. ACR orders the 6-over-6 stacked beams required for every band and emails contracts to construction crews for installation of the entire contesting station hardware system.

2. ACR orders the IC-7800s and high powered amplifiers for each band and has them installed by qualified technicians.

3. Of course, from time to time, the ACR would also order hardware upgrades for itself, such as 100GB of RAM to continue to operate at full potential.

And ACR takes care of all that messy after-contest work before resetting for the next contest:

1. ACR exchanges databases with all other ACRs in the world, comparing scores within microseconds.
2. ACR orders the immediate delivery of award plaques and gold trophies online, which are Fedex'd overnight to the "Contest Operator" for instant gratification.

The mundane chores of contesting are now completely solved by the ACR appliance, leaving the ACR owner to maintain high standings amongst the ranks of the World's Greatest Contest Operators, while basking in the eternal adoration of fellow hams.

73---Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA




http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
you are right bonnie http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif i like the old way doing contest http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif that will be never again 73 wen de k1lwi ps i was a big contests opr in the 1970 to 1980 to me no more fun cp to doing all the work that is it hi

[w1yw]

So...does the ACR have a huge pre-programmed ego like the real thing;-)?

As my dad used to say:'Son, the only thing that contesting prepares you for is being a dispatcher..';-)

[W4CNG]

The only thing I would change is Bid out the Construction and award to the High Bidder (you want it to really work), and change the brand of radio and amplifier to USA made.
Steve W4CNG saving up S Stock to make the purchases.

[K0MMT]

Wow, sarcastic tongue in cheek, jeesh, if you really took this seriously, you need to change your name to Rube

[w7nb]

So where do I order? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Contesting - Where 100 watts IS qrp...

[kk6fr]

Contesting has got to be as much fun as watching amateur golf. Some just have to hang that wall paper. They sound like a new CBer with his first radio and a bag of speed.

certenly the last thing told someone when trying to interest someone in ham radio.

[vk2qq]

Bonnie, I'll take two.

I just don't have enough time to spend the whole weekend calling CQ, but I'd still like to win!

Thanks. do you accept credit cards?


Brad
VK2QQ

[n9jrn]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Well Bonnie I don't usualy reply on things but you hit the nail on the head, my personal opinion of contests is they just waste a large chunk of our bands for the better part of alot of weekends, and as you state in line one the op's are just pushin' buttons,,,,,SUCH FUN? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K3HVG]

Actually, I sort of like contests. Although I haven't a prayer or winning, placing, or showing (so to speak), contests appear to bring some interesting stations out of the woodwork. I recall the VHF contests in the AM days, where perserverance paid off. I've been on both sides of the fence on HF contests, Stateside and DX. The "contest" is no longer among the masses. Rather it is among the established and well-funded "contest consortiums". Its a given they will generally always "win" (now there's an interesting word....win...). The rest of us can simply do what we can with what we've got and enjoy our part. Remember.. the non-US DX'ers can't win squat without all of us!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Can we expect to see the ACR, in color, on the back page of QST next month??

[W7WV]

I like it. I did my first contesting as a Novice in the early 1970s.
You are right about one thing, a lot of things have changed.
When I retured to this hobby I noted the change, and other than one Field Day I have not been in one contest. Even Field Day seems to have changed, and not for the good.
Just a different type of people on the air today.

[N5LPN]

That's why I don't bother turning my radio on during the weekends. The best conversation to be found up and down the band is usually "59, you're in the log, qrz?". Where's the fun in that? My walls have fresh paint and don't need to be papered over yet.

[ab8ma]

Does this ACR also send out QSL cards for the "new ones"? Can it determine if there are enough IRC's, and if not can it obtain more for free, perhaps as a bundled cost of the original license?

That way the only need for the human would be to pick up the stack of outgoing cards every morning and just drop them off at the PO box on the way to the 2 jobs required to pay for the for-mentioned license.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n2rxk]

Bonnie...GREAT POST and a great attitude...It is good when we can laugh at ourselves!!! Keep it up!!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n0iu]

Your Rube Goldberg machine may look good on paper, but it will never work! Don't you read the other posts here and on eHam? The consensus is that there are too many contests!

What we need is an automatic rag chewing machine. It would use the same premise, but you would have to program in things like --

1) In addition to the QTH city, you must include the Maidenhead grid square locator, the latitude and longitude and height above (or below) sea level.

2) A complete weather synopsis that includes not only the temperature, but also the wind chill or heat index, relative humidity, barometric pressure, dew point, wind speed and direction, cloud level and forecast.

3) A full detailed description of your computer system including the processor brand and model and its speed, the amount of memory, the brand and model and size of the hard drive, the operating system complete with the build number and service pack number, the brand and model of the sound card and the amount of memory on it, the brand and model and speed of the DVD burner, the brand and model of the infrared wireless keyboard, the brand and model of the infrared wireless mouse, the wattage rating of the power supply and the color of cabinet (especially if it is one of those really cool clear Lucite cabinets with the different colored neon lights inside).

4) The brand and model of the sound card interface.

5) The version of digi-mode software.

Have I forgotten anything?

Oh yeah, if there is room at the bottom of the list, you might want to think about including the brand and model of radio and what kind of antenna you are using. Remember, ham radio is now a computer hobby that uses radios and not a radio hobby that uses computers like it was in the good old days of the previous millennium.

This information must be given out whether the other station wants to know it or not. After all, you have spent so much time and money putting together this killer computer system (that happens to be hooked up to an HF transceiver) that it is your duty to describe it in detail to everyone with whom you make contact since it is a fair assumption that they are as interested in computers as you are. Before you give the other station a chance to reply, you have to bid them a hearty 73 with the hopes of seeing them further down the log. You have told them about your computer system, so what else is there to talk about?

The very last obligatory item is telling the other station the date and time you put them in your log. You have to tell them this because you cannot assume that they have a clock and a calendar in their shack to determine this for themselves!

Don’t laugh. We have all had digi-mode contacts just like the one described above!

[VA3KSF]

Greetings All!

Does the new "whiz bang" contest robot also recognize internationally accepted band plans and automatically disqualify those increasingly numerous (not to mention rude and boorish) contest participants who regularly flaunt them?

For example, during the CQ WW SSB DX contest a few weeks back, I heard several stations operating WELL into the CW sub-bands on 40 Meters. #Two idiots that I listened to for well over an hour (from the Caribbean) were firmly camped around 7012 KHz, incessantly splattering their "CQ Contest" calls on LSB up and down the CW sub-band. #The really sad part about all this was that these stupid clowns were actually taking return calls from other stations on these frequencies!!

Now, I well realize that we live in a world of increasing de-regulation. #However, what ever happened to all those "gentlemen's agreements" #to voluntarily honor internationally recognized sub-bands? #

Does "having a contest" these days also mean that "all bets are off" as regards the international amateur regulations, agreements and/or "good amateur practice", all in the name of someone getting a "winning score" and yet another piece of paper to hang on their wall?

Now, I'm certainly am not one to advocate casting band plans into regulatory stone. #And I also understand and agree that contests are as much a part of Amateur Radio as any number of other equally enjoyable pursuits. #

But, folks, when is enough going to be enough?? #

Does anyone have any creative ideas (short of yet more regulations) how the rest of us...who have absolutely no interest in contests...can take our internationally recognized sub-bands back when these stupid clowns are let loose on the air?

73,

Keith Baker
VA3KSF

[k6ct]

Bonnie, I will take your post as very tongue in cheek as I will take the opposite side of the topic.
As a part time contester over the years and not one of the big gun stations, I never had the huge tower(s) big yagi(s) or IC7800/Alpha. There is a small percentage of Multi-Multi guys who just camp out on the same freq thru-out a contest and just push the buttons..over and over. Little or no skill required for that, I agree. The rest of us have to hunt down the dx and somehow use skill and timing (I mostly do cw) to work guys. Most people would agree that ham radio appears to be a dying hobby...look at the pictures from Dayton and in QST/CQ...they tend to look like me...overweight and over 60! There has been some movement in the contesting field by bringing in to the big multi-multi/multi-single teams, young guys and girls to operate...they seem to like the competitive nature of the sport...much akin to computer video games.
I recently moved and became dx myself (CX7TT);the major ham populations are very far away..EU is 7300nm, USA is 4000-6000 (w4-w7) and JA is approx 11,300nm. I was on in the CQWWSSB contest and only worked about 400 guys...But I did enjoy the challenge of using a single element quad loop suspended from a 33ft fiberglass pole lashed to the patio support with bungee cord. #From down here, one needs a low angle of radiation antenna, without putting up a tower (tower restrictions here) so I have enrolled in the ARRL Ant modeling course. I have also become a student of propagation to better understand greyline, muf, etc. My point here is that the contesters generally work at improving their stations, improving their skills, improving their knowledge. Self improvement is not a bad thing if properly channeled, HI. Contesters and dxers typically buy the latest and greatest of rigs, antennas, rotors and other accessories. This helps all of us (even non-contesters/dxers) by supporting the manufacturers....the rigs which now have hot receivers and very selective filtering came about because of the influence of contesters and dxers. Who needs a roofing filter to get on everyday and talk to uncle joe or your bowling buddys? Even the qrpers benefit from the race to excell technically..look at the Elecraft K1/K2 crowd...btw, I built a K2 and am very proud that it works and is a hot xcvr(last time was a Heathkit SB-200 in 1968)! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif In closing, like in everything, there are good ops and poor ops....for those who resent the use of the bands for contesting..well, that's what the WARC bands are for...casual ragchewing...BTW, does anyone have 200 ft of Rohn 55 you can ship me along with 3 prop pitchs?
Just kidding
73 Tom aka CX7TangoTom

[k5co]

Contesting seems like a bore. And it is sure problimatic. Last weekend I couldnot send/receive CW because contesters were actually using phone in the CW part of the band (and everywhere else). And I heard a net terribly inturruped by some gleebs that thought is was important to play "CQ Contest!" constantly. What a rude bunch. Don't they have anything to do? Do you have to be slow to find contesting amusing?

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (W7RAI @ Nov. 02 2005,22:18)]So where do I order? # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Contesting - Where 100 watts IS qrp...
In some contests, 1,000 may be QRP.

[KD6NIG]

What you suggest is just too much work. You're expecting me to set up a station, and....TURN ON A POWER SWITCH?

Look, I already have echolink on my computer. Whats a radio?

--

Getting kinda scary though, and you're right, contesting is heading this way. At least at field day last year, we had to actually type the contacts into the computer. I heard of another group that had automatic logging that recorded everything but the callsign.....

But I guess at least they still had to turn the knobs, use thier ears, and actually PRESS that microphone button to talk. Probably burned about 100 calories over the whole weekend, while intaking close to 2500. And we wonder where people get the idea that we're all fat and lazy?

But I guess if we get the contesting robots, there won't be a need for DXpeditions anymore. We can just put a robot in every grid square and work the world in about a week-especially if each robot has an echolink node tied to it.

Course, if the robots try to take over like they did in I, Robot-then we might really be looked at awful funny.

[kb9ygd]

Good article Bonnie.Yes contesting is evolving and contesting has its place in amateur radio, for example inorder to get my arrl was certificate i needed 3 states DE,ND,SD, and if it wasnt for contesters i may never have gotten them.73,Norm.My Webpage (http://mysite.verizon.net/res868sp/thetriantafilosfamily/index.html)

[W5HTW]

Remember Hastings Records? You go into the store, and flip through the records, or the CDs, and choose what you want.

That is where contesting should be. The Contest Store. When you feel the urge, you go to the store, pick out the certificates you want to "win" this week, plop down your credit card, and go home with a bunch of new certificates.

Probably more exciting that on-air contesting, as this way you may actually see another human being.

Of course, I suppose we can do that online, too. Just go to CONTESTING-CERTIFICATES DOT GETEM and order the ones you want. Pay online, and immediately download and print them.

That will do just as much for "international good will" the regulations talk about, as will "You're five nine thanks qr-zed" (But, of course, we don't meet any of the other criteria of the regs either, so why should we try to meet that one?)

Ed

[W9WHE]

I have an idea.
How about we FULLY automate the contest station by:
1) replacing the operator with a computer; and
2) replacing the antenna with a dummy load!

[n0ov]

Contest automation is a great idea. Perhaps we can even take it to the next level. Instead of using RF as the contact medium, use the internet instead. Identify your antenna, rig, and power. Software can calculate band conditions and determine the signal report you would have seen and if the contact would have been successful and capture the contact automatically.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ac3p]

Does anybody remember "Dr. DX", the QSO simulator software? I think it had a simialted contest mode.

Had a display of an ATLAS 210 on the screen.

[kc0nyk]

Hey Bonnie,

I usually just scan these posts, but this one required me to not only read the whole thing twice, [I missed a bunch the first time because I was laughing so hard] and then the comments again because I couldn't believe that anyone could get serious about a tounge in cheek parady of contesting.

I will confess that I occasionally will contest with my 100 watt qrp rig and vertical antenna. I find so much pleasure in snagging the rare contact out from under the highpower guys' noses....it happened a couple of weeks ago on a contest with a India contact and this weekend with a Malaygina Republic contact .... just to hear them gripe on air. MY favorite was the guy who had 'been holding the frequency for two hours' and got hot when I came out of nowhere, took a contact and then changed frequency. I heard him because my other reciever was scanning at the time. Lot's of fun!!!

Enjoyed the post...are you going to start something like the Dead Electrical Dudes?

[w8znx]

Hello sports fans

Find it ironic Bonnie would write a posting
on this subject

seeing as Bonnie is a active advocate
of R. U. R. ( Rossum's Universal Robots )
automatic/computer stations,

rather have automatic contest stations on the air
few weekends a year

than machine/computer/automatic/qrm machines
on the air 24 hours a day, 365 days a year


Robot contest bit is at least 45 years old,
there was story in QST back in the 50's
about a op that builds a robot to run his contest station
works great
but in the end
the robot takes over his station
and won't let the op back in his shack

Mac
dit dit

[K1HAH]

Bonnie you have such a way with words. I only use a pen to log, a microphone or key to communicate, an antenna that is stealth, a power level that is low (10 watts usually) and still love radio after 50 plus years. K1HAH John Callaghan:p

[ke5aqd]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Nov. 03 2005,07:00)]What we need is an automatic rag chewing machine. It would use the same premise, but you would have to program in things like --
Hey! I resemble that remark! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed last week's CQ WW SSB contest. My rig is 100w and my antenna is a dipole but I still managed to snag about 40 new countries. I also heard and was annoyed by stations down in the CW band because I was also doing the FISTS C2C contest but I still managed to make contacts in that one too.

[nf0a]

Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Oct. 31 2005,21:09)]How wonderfully advanced the new ham contest stations are now, with operators reaching maximum scores through machine-like precision! A few buttons are pushed by the contest operator to send callsigns and automatically generate signal report numbers. Computers log and check everything, rotate beams, switch antennas, and even QSY in response to a rare DX cluster spot.

Well, the time is now, to take contesting to the next logical step in ham radio evolution: eliminate the human factor entirely!

Enter the ultimate appliance: the Automated Contesting Robot (ACR)

Automated Contesting Robot, containing the most advanced computing power available, is so much better suited to contesting than humans are. ACR doesn't need a human to press the start and stop button, because the time/date of the contest is automatically downloaded from contesting websites. #ACR roams all the amateur bands freely, quickly and efficiently exchanging reports with other ACRs... and ACR is so much more capable of exchanging accurate and truthful signal reports than humans. After all, computers don't make duplicate QSO errors! ACR doesn't take it personally if a frequency is already in use, or if another ACR tries to take over its frequency... ACR simply increases transmitter power, swings the beam, or QSYs.

ACR doesn't get weary during long 48 hour contests. As Automated Contesting Robots become fully utilized by every great contest operator in the world, the duration of contests will be expanded to weeks, months, or even the entire year. Just think, contest lovers, we can soon look forward to continuous contests on the ham bands!

ACR does all the preparation for a contest beforehand, without procrastination. The stored credit card information entered by the purchaser of the ACR is used for other functions:

1. ACR orders the 6-over-6 stacked beams required for every band and emails contracts to construction crews for installation of the entire contesting station hardware system.

2. ACR orders the IC-7800s and high powered amplifiers for each band and has them installed by qualified technicians.

3. Of course, from time to time, the ACR would also order hardware upgrades for itself, such as 100GB of RAM to continue to operate at full potential.

And ACR takes care of all that messy after-contest work before resetting for the next contest:

1. ACR exchanges databases with all other ACRs in the world, comparing scores within microseconds.
2. ACR orders the immediate delivery of award plaques and gold trophies online, which are Fedex'd overnight to the "Contest Operator" for instant gratification.

The mundane chores of contesting are now completely solved by the ACR appliance, leaving the ACR owner to maintain high standings amongst the ranks of the World's Greatest Contest Operators, while basking in the eternal adoration of fellow hams.

73---Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA




http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
"But wait! Let Hamming(Amateur Radio) be done automatically while you shower, shave, go on vacation,etc... and when an S.O.S. comes in, you need not worry as AUTO-HAM will take care of it errors and all! Hamming will be such FUN!" ...not...
You can keep it, I`ll do it the old fashioned way....and I never worry about what some ham thinks how I ought to contest, operate etc... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[aa1mn]

Ah, Bonnie, you've just re-invented the digital answering machine. Feel free to leave a message any time at your discretiion ... I'll even QSL!

My number's listed in the phone book. Looking forward to hearing you.

Chuck, AA1MN

[N8NOE]

Would I still be the Control OPP?....
Would I need to send my Fancy Machine in the The ARRl/FCC to get it's own License?....
Guess I'm to the point I Don't Need to be here to confirm a QSO by sending silly QSL Cards around the World?... Guess I'm becoming a Appliance Operator after all.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KI4SP]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Nov. 03 2005,08:46)]Does this ACR also send out QSL cards for the "new ones"? Can it determine if there are enough IRC's, and if not can it obtain more for free, perhaps as a bundled cost of the original license?

That way the only need for the human would be to pick up the stack of outgoing cards every morning and just drop them off at the PO box on the way to the 2 jobs required to pay for the for-mentioned license.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
forget getting a REAL qsl card from her..

"NOTICE TO ALL OPERATORS WHO WANT A QSL: KQ6XA only uses electronic QSL! NO paper QSL CARDS. PLEASE QSL only VIA eQSL"


way to #funny, you can't make up this stuff...

[k5co]

Who is this Bonnie KQ6XA ? If I were single, I'd be looking for a girl just like her.

[kc2egl]

AH!!!

When you least expect it, Bonnie strikes again.
To bloody funny.
Thanks for the laugh.



73's
Mike
KC2EGL

[n7spy]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Nov. 03 2005,15:59)]Who is this Bonnie #KQ6XA ? If I were single, I'd be looking for a girl just like her.
*cough*readherqrzbio*cough* http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I have to admit that Bonnie/KQ6XA has made a point I've been wondering about since I became a Ham last year. What's the point of contesting if the people who will win will do so by hogging the bands and screaming everyone else out of frequency by turning their amplifiers up to (or beyond) the legal limit?

[kb7rky]

I detect tongue-in-cheek here ;)

Doug, KB7RKY

[n5pu]

Way to go Bonnie!
Good article. I enjoy dabbling in some of the contests, and yes, they are getting far too automated.

My robot is almost ready. I was walking through the living room this morning and I heard, "W5UVG W5UVG"(that's a friend I call on 2 meters) It was my African Grey parrot, now if I could only teach her the CQWW exchange!!! LOL

Let's all enjoy our hobby and try to forget all the ones that make it really bad. Cool off, and try to make the best of it!
Leon N5PU http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n7spy]

You can tell that someone's using Automation while contesting when they sound exactly the same... after 30 minutes of contesting

[K2WH]

I want to know - is ACR male or female. Could make a difference.

[W4KVW]

"EASY" to tell those whom have NEVER or EVER will WIN since they do NOT want too play anymore!I no longer contest for myself but do work ALL of the HF & VHF contest I can for those whom ENJOY the THRILL of it all. Hurry & drink your milk or it will be watered down from your tears & then we will get the chance to AGAIN read how you AGAIN have FAILED!The WALL PAPER is VERY nice but YOU will NEVER have ANY with YOUR call too ENJOY or discuss with others whom enter your shack.Just so your time is saved "YES",I do have 3 WINNERS & 1 second place wall paper(2 winners in a single contest weekend). THANKS to ALL whom helped ME make it possible.I know all those contesters are taking up YOUR airways a well as overloading the front end on your rig but you will get use too it if you just turn it to the "OFF" position while others ENJOY the "HOBBY"!If you can NOT afford a contest station then you should NOT envy those who can since they also passed the test as well.

God bless,
Clayton
KE4KVW

[k8arl]

I say great, as long as it makes the other station "hear" better! I'm tired of missing the really hard to get stations.

Also, you folks all should know that there are FCC rulemaking proposals in the works for bandwidth regulation and usage based on contesting bandwidth. That might mean that some bands will only allow one contester on the band at a time.

And you thought automated digital mode stations like WinLink 2,000,000 could become a problem!?!?!?! Think again...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

K8arl

[kg5vk]

how many of you Non Contest advocates use something called Pkt cluster or dx spots over telenet ?

I wonder who came up with Packet cluster
for Dx spots............

what I like about our hobby is it is diverse
anyone want to play in a boring hobby ?

steve
KG5VK

[N7YA]

well, we do this every year too....and almost exclusively on the internet....a contester vs ragchewer war erupts around this time of year.

I couldnt care less who wins, either.

I love contesting because its fun...i run 100w to a loop on my ceiling, my signal sucks but i dont mind...basically because i do ham radio for fun (i dont own an HT or use SSB much so im pretty useless during emergencies...unless i get off my duff during one and go outside to help with my hands...hmmm, an idea).
Yep, im a wierdo that likes to get on the air and run the '5NN TU'....ENJOY it....and look for another. its the thrill of actually making a contact that i like.
And its not like a contest DXpedition will sit and ragchew with me about rigs/weather/bodily ailments when they only have 48 hours to make as many qso's as they can...because they also enjoy doing it, and theres a lot of folks waiting in line to see if they can put a new one in the log or grab a much needed multiplier. not to mention that these big DX operations spend a lot of their own money (as well as donations from DXers) to put these entities on the air....some of them thankfully at contest time. But i also like to ragchew...i just dont have the station to keep a closing band open for me, i have to work with the propagation gods. and i already owe them a few favors.
Heres an interesting fact. I have also heard TONS of these big gun DXers, contesters and the like actually ragchewing during off times...they love to chat as much as anyone else. Ive chatted with quite a few '5NN TU' machine operators about....well, stuff!! and thouroughly enjoyed the hour long conversation....because it was fun.

I will, however, concur about the aggressiveness of certain "rail cannon" contesting stations unwillingness to be gentlemen in times of war to the non-combatants among us. I will certainly complain about being avoided during a contest because i wasnt 20 db over 9. AND...I simply cannot respect an operators "skill" when he kicks on a full 1.5kw on top of an exsisting qso (contest or not), that he probably CHOOSES not to hear, tunes up with a carrier that sounds like VOA moved in next door, that without so much as a half-assed qrl, hits the CQ button and shuts down 20khz of bandwidth with splatter....THAT is disrespectful to others on the band, and to any hint of honor we may possess.

But, just because YOU wouldnt do, or enjoy, something....means nothing to the rest of the world. remember that. especially since most of these contests are "worldwide".

Ham radio, and this argument, is now several generations old....do ANY of you think it will get better? how about worse??

I just think it will continue like this because, like contesting and ragchewing...arguing is fun. especially online! you want to talk about letting a machine do all the talking for you? how about THIS one??

O, Blessed be the electronic veil, for it so validates thee.

73...Adam, N7YA
20wpm extra....if you care...i sure dont.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N8NOE]

Psycho-Babble!.........

Once they had out HF tickets to Everyone, is it really going to matter?.. I think We should run 3.5kW and as WIDE a signal as possable!... QRP and Narrow bandwidth Stuff is too Hard!.. Run IT!..
I think We should also fill the DX Clusters, and start Running like 11 Meter Rigs that are all AM, or Like some 75 Meter Stuff.. I Think Digital Modes are a WASTE of Time, and that FM Voice should be used!.. I Think that we DON'T need to be at the "Control Point" of the Radio, as My Computer will Run the Stuff.. This should all be like Going to the Store And Buying a WASH-Machine, If you Buy it-Run It!..OH, And just a SINGLE License that all you do is just send yuor Name and $5.00 to Newington, and in the
Mail you get a Paper that is FULL Ticket, No More UPGRADES, NO MORE CW, No more Test, No more Complaining, Given some Time I bet I can come up with More..

[kk6fr]

I still say Quality, Not Quantity. In this world of just being another number (including our callsign) that's not enough, now we must see how many numbers we can get as fast as we can get them. Explane if you can in detail how this is fun? You sound as about impersonal as a cop with an empty ticket book on the last day of the month. Of all the things to think up for something to do with your Ham Rig, This guy had to have the short straw. Yawn.......

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (kg5vk @ Nov. 03 2005,21:53)]how many of you Non Contest advocates use something called Pkt cluster or dx spots over telenet ?

I wonder who came up with Packet cluster
for Dx spots............

what I like about our hobby is it is diverse
anyone want to play in a boring hobby ?

steve
KG5VK
I can honestly say, as a non contester and DX chaser, that I have never used a packet cluster, nor DX reporting web site, to chase DX. It's to closely akin to shooting fish in a barrel.

I subscribe to the old theory of what you hear is what you get.

[KB9WQJ]

Oh the humanity! #Somebody get these anti-contesters some cheese to go with their whine.

[ac6v]

Hold On -- During an emergency I'll take a contester as net control ANY TIME. They are adept at catching calls and rapidly understanding content without repeats.

And many can type fast to record messages. Not true of a lot of ARES/RACES folks

[kb2vxa]

Greetings Bonnie series,

"Automated Contesting Robot, containing the most advanced computing power available, is so much better suited to contesting than humans are."

"EVERYONE knows robots are sauperior to humans."
Bender

"...is automatically downloaded from contesting websites."

With the acessory Hackbot it downloads info from the other Testbots. (robot grin)

"ACR roams all the amateur bands freely.."

With the acessory SETIbot it scans millions of frequencies per second.

"...capable of exchanging accurate and truthful signal reports than humans."

You mean it doesn't give all the other bots a 5/9 report and ask for a repeat of something it missed?

"ACR simply increases transmitter power, swings the beam, or QSYs."

With the acessory Cheatbot it taps the appropriate VOA relay station and takes over a transmitter on standby.

"...the duration of contests will be expanded to weeks, months, or even the entire year. Just think, contest lovers, we can soon look forward to continuous contests on the ham bands!"

We already have a contest somewhere in the spectrum every weekend and still that's not enough, yeah, let's have at it 24/7.

1. ACR orders the 6-over-6 stacked beams required for every band and emails contracts to (ROBOT MAFIA) construction crews for installation of the entire contesting station hardware system.

2. ACR orders the IC-7800s and high powered amplifiers for each band and has them installed by qualified (ROBOTIC) technicians (after having fallen off Robot Mafia trucks).

"3. Of course, from time to time, the ACR would also order hardware upgrades for itself, such as 100GB of RAM to continue to operate at full potential."

After having seen over your shoulder you watching Demon Seed your wife gives birth to all the son and daughter bots it needs, you call them "Harmonicbots".

"And ACR takes care of all that messy after-contest work before resetting for the next contest:"

It's permanently on line with ARRLbot...

(ARRLbot) orders the immediate delivery of award plaques and gold trophies online, which are (RoboXed) overnight to the "Contest Operator" for instant gratification.

"The mundane chores of contesting are now completely solved by the ACR appliance, leaving the ACR owner to maintain high standings amongst the ranks of the World's Greatest Contest (BOTerators), while basking in the eternal adoration of fellow (bots).

You see dearheart, contesting has been dehumanized, the bots taken over and the human factor entirely eliminated. This frees the humans for more liesurely persutes like they have in the workplace. Since the invention of the robot they have been slowly taking over the world of economics and politics freeing humans to become more and more sheep-like following the Bushbot and it's networked Washintonbots while feeding and maintaning the Fatcatbots which send fragrant grease to the Chinabots via the Walbots.

Pinky and the Brain PHOOEY, the ROBOTS do what they do every night, try to take over the WORLD! "We are the bots, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile."

What hath Bot wrought?

Now I'll go back and read what the Hambots have written.

[k5co]

Wow. Now the contesters that spoil the bands are suggesting that I turn my radio off. Perhaps I should; I would not want friends of neighbors to hear what a rude and selfish lot many hams have become. And I sure do not care to associate with them.
Let's all set up programs to reapeatedly send CQ during contests; and burn our ARRL memberships. The organization is becoming useless and money hungrey anyway.

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Nov. 04 2005,08:01)]Wow. Now the contesters that spoil the bands are suggesting that I turn my radio off. Perhaps I should; I would not want friends of neighbors to hear what a rude and selfish lot many hams have become. And I sure do not care to associate with them.
Let's all set up programs to reapeatedly send CQ during contests; and burn our ARRL memberships. The organization is becoming useless and money hungrey anyway.
KD5PSH

Just curious if you've had the pleasure of meeting an old friend of mine who moved to your area a couple of years back?

K5NMX, Mike Swaim

[kb2vxa]

Addendum:

I just KNEW I forgot something!

"Look, I already have echolink on my computer. Whats a radio?"

The Contestbot is ALREADY obsolete, I retract my original post. With Echobot it's entirely over the Internet which frees humans to return to bands free of contesters, WHEW! One fly in the ointment, the Internet becomes useless as the Echobots hog the bandwidth. Well, I'll see you entirely on the bands when I scrap my computer.

Can't you see it coming? The first tremors were felt a couple of months ago when they held the first Echolink contest which inspired this post.

Definition:
Con test, the means by which criminal proficiency is determined. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[k0ru]

Aahhh, its that time of the year again.

Every year, same ole stuff.

See you in the pileups - Rob - W8YRB

[4S7RO]

Contesting obviously was encouraged as a way of developing operating skills, good equipment design and other good things. However, IMHO it is now just a waste of time and a hindrance to most others who intend using the spectrum for more useful purposes.

I see no value in it nor a worthwhile contribution towards the betterment of the hobby, when a bunch of people start up contest machines, auto serial number generators and excessively high power. What is the point in winning a contest using ILLEGAL power? The standard 59 exchange is also a way of cheating. If contest help evaluate your station and help the other bloke evaluate his, it would be sensible to exchange genuine reports, no?! Contesting is now for the rich boys and those who stretch the rules to no limits! BTW I heard a well known US contester asking a buddy (who was down in the Caribbean for a contest) "what will you guys be running.. the 5K or the 8K?!"

73 ye all!
Ron

[4S7RO]

AA6V wrote "Hold On -- During an emergency I'll take a contester as net control ANY TIME. They are adept at catching calls and rapidly understanding content without repeats.

And many can type fast to record messages. Not true of a lot of ARES/RACES folks UNQUOTE

No offense meant Sir and I do see your point, but let me tell you that back where I come from (Sri Lanka) , Ham operators did a wonderful job after the Tsunami struck Asia last year. NONE of them were contesters, but they did yeoman service in admirable fashion. Not because they were contesters, but because they were good hams. ZIf I may say so... I am probably the Ham with the most contest hours and the one with more DXCC countries than anyone else in that group, but I could not have not a better job! They were simply a marvellous example of Hams who had listened on the bands and were driven by a cause!

73 de Ron

[n7nra]

Either contesters operate under some kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde syndrome, or they're always rude and just don't spend much time on the air when there's not a contest in progress.

Mind you, they're not all this way, but in my experience, about one third of them are. I spent many years away from the radio, but had a resurgance of interest a couple of years ago. I finally got a good HF antenna up last spring and thought I'd do a little work on my WAS during Field Day when there were sure to be a lot of people on the air. I picked up 25 states in about 2-1/2 hours. It was a lot of fun. However, along with the gentlemanly hams, there were a great number of ops who wanted absolutely nothing to do with anyone who wasn't participating in the contest. I mean, how DARE we conduct normal operations when there's an almighty CONTEST on?!?!

Not being a contester, I had no idea what the exchange protocol was, nor did I care. I gave them a signal report, my name and call and my QTH. What more is necessary? All the other stuff (some sort of location zone arrangement that means something only to the participants) is crap, in my book. Well, since I didn't know the "secret handshake" location zone code, I was treated like the proverbial dead rat being removed from the punch bowl by its tail at arm's length while the contester held his nose with his other hand. Some of the "operators" (I give them too much credit) didn't even complete the QSO once they found out I wasn't participating in the contest. In mid contact exchange, they imediately began calling CQ, QRZ or answering other callers. The level of rudeness was appalling!

Some of them may have been ignorant of how to handle non-contest operator calls. But the majority seemed to have the opinion that non-contest operators had no business being on the air during THEIR contest. From what I've been able to find in the contest rules, the only requirement is that the contest exchange information has to be transmitted. There is no requirement that the same info be received and logged from each contact. That means there is no need to shun a contact simply because he doesn't give you the information you expect to hear from other contesters. Simply log the contact and collect the point. And be gentlemanly about it! There may be prospective hams listening. There's no sense turning them against the hobby by your rudeness.

One thing I did re-learn from this experience is why I always used to find something else to do during Field Day. I remembered that I had an aversion to Field Day, but I couldn't remember why. This was a great refersher course in avoiding rude operators.

Can Bonnie's robot be programmed to be as rude as a real contester when responding to non-contest contacts? If you're going to simulate reality, don't overlook the important details.

Regards,

Stew
N7NRA

[n0doz]

I was wondering the other day why I haven't been on the radio for a while. Then I realized: I've been reading these posts on QRZ and the doom-and-gloom that is so pervasive here was influencing me. "Why get on the radio? Everybody hates everybody that's not exactly like them!"
Yeah, right.
So: why is every so-called "news topic" on QRZ a thinly-disguised opportunity to either bash someone or make fun of them?

[n3eg]

Yawn.

Another useless topic. This is almost as bad as eHam's surveys that stay up three weeks too long.

Wake me when the next contest weekend comes along.

[N2EY]

This weekend is the ARRL November Sweepstakes (SS) on CW. I plan to be on the air, making as many
points as possible. SS is perhaps my favorite contest, because it requires a real exchange (4 pieces of
info besides the callsign, and the signal report is not part of the exchange.) I also like it because even a
modest station can get a big score.

The fall and winter also bring out a lot of anti-contest and anti-DX complaints. Some
of them may be justified - not every contester or DXer is 100% courteous 100% of the time.

But a lot of the technical progress in ham radio, particularly on HF/MF, has come about
because of contesters and DXers.

Compare a typical midrange HF ham transceiver of today with one from the '60s or '70s
and consider how many features and performance improvements came about because
DXers and contesters pushed for them, developed them, and paid for them. Better
filters, better dynamic range, multiple VFOs, memories, I/O ports, no-tune-up operation,
separate rx antenna inputs, and much much more can all be traced at least in part to
the needs and wants of contesters and DXers.

Want to compare numbers? Check out how differently the receivers of old and new ham rigs perform:

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

Is there a computer in your shack? One of the first widespread uses of computers in hamshacks was to keep contest logs. Memory keyer? Developed for contesting.

There are lots more examples but you get the idea.

Of course a lot of these features first appear in the top-of-the-line rigs that most of us cannot afford. But then they work their way down to the lower-priced stuff as the
technology matures and the development costs are paid off.

Whether you like contests and DXing or not, they do contribute to the ARS.

(cue sound of soapbox being put away)
73 de Jim, N2EY

[w4xaa]

Great idea! Now, if you could also get it to run down to Mickey D's to bring back coffee and burgers during the contest, you'd really have something.

Tom, K2AES

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (k1lwi @ Nov. 02 2005,21:30)]you are right bonnie http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif i like the old way doing contest http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif that will be never again 73 wen de k1lwi ps i was a big contests opr in the 1970 to 1980 to me no more fun cp to doing all the work that is it hi
Say whut??

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[WB2INY]

FB Bonnie!!! Maybe your new rig could move contesting off of the air totally and move them to the internet! Just think of how much fun that would be! For me, contest weekends are good for one thing: Working on my XYL's " Honey-Do " projects. I just can't understand how the guy running 2kw and stacked 20 meter monobanders, who I can only hear at s2 at best, can give me a 5-9 for my QRP(100 watt) rig and trapped ground plane! I must have a real superstation! Maybe we should have a T-shirt that says "Contesting: I'm 5-9, you're 5-9, we're all 5-9!" I agree, contests are a waste of time, a waste of a chance to meet someone and have an actual conversation, and frustrating when that might be my only time to get on the air and enjoy my hobby for that week. And hey, I am a dispatcher!!!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N3JI]

So I'm a Contester *AND* a Rag Chewer. #I'm SO TORN!!

To the Anti-Contester: #You have a couple weekends before the next big one. #I'll be listening intently for all the "important" stuff you have to say until then...

To the Anti-Ragchewer: #Do you know how annoying it is to be on a freq in QSO for an hour when some contester plops within a kc and starts calling "CQ Contest" at S9+20dB??

There, now I've offended both sides. #BTW, we scored ~545,000 last weekend... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Joe, N3JI

[k0ttt]

Hi Bonnie, #Love the ACR post! #For me, ACR means... #"Ain't Contest Ready." #I got into contests in '61 at age 13 and my dad taught me how to send right and left- handed with my single lever. #He said that I would have to maintain a paper log, a check sheet as well as tune the receiver and the VFO on the transmitter, plus turn the rotor on the Quad, answer the phone re: the TVI complaints from the neighbors so having the pencil in my right hand and the left hand on the key would save some time. #Otherwise, he said you "Ain't Contest Ready." I still do it that way to this day although I got soft and bought a transceiver! hi #See ya on HF Pack. 73/72 Zed, KØNNN

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (ac6v @ Nov. 04 2005,07:11)]Hold On -- During an emergency I'll take a contester as net control ANY TIME. They are adept at catching calls and rapidly understanding content without repeats.

And many can type fast to record messages. Not true of a lot of ARES/RACES folks
Could you name some famous contesters that commonly function as net controls?

[n0iu]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Nov. 04 2005,08:01)]Wow. Now the contesters that spoil the bands are suggesting that I turn my radio off. Perhaps I should; I would not want friends of neighbors to hear what a rude and selfish lot many hams have become. And I sure do not care to associate with them.
Talk about rude! Boy, you rag chewers really gall me! I am an avid contester and to me that is what ham radio is all about... making nothing but "quick hit" contacts with as much power as I can muster then moving on. To me, the section of Part 97 that says I can run only 1.5KW is like stop signs on a shopping mall parking lot; it is just a suggestion!

All you rag chewers want to do is find an open spot on the band and bore the daylights out of anyone who will listen to you chat about your lumbago, arthritis, quadruple bypass or some other way in which your decrepit old body is falling apart. While you yammer on midlessly for hours at a time, I can make over 60 contacts in the course of that same hour. Now I ask you, who is making better use of the bandwidth???

And who's idea was it to not allow contesting on the WARC bands? As far as I am concerned, those are 3 more bands I should be able to use for any purpose I see fit! After all, I took five written tests plus Morse code tests at 5, 13 AND 20 WPM in order to use any band at any time! I am the one who should be upset over this, not you!

All you rag chewers who only run 100 watts need to just get another hobby like stamp or coin collecting and leave us folks who really know how to make some noise on the bands alone! Sheesh!

[nn2nn]

Quote[/b] (ac6v @ Nov. 04 2005,07:11)]Hold On -- During an emergency I'll take a contester as net control ANY TIME. They are adept at catching calls and rapidly understanding content without repeats.

And many can type fast to record messages. Not true of a lot of ARES/RACES folks
Most contesters have no idea what it takes to run an emergency net. There is much more than confirming 59 05 to pass.

Steve NN2NN,
Net Control Operator and contester.

[kr4wm]

I was beginning to wonder why the top scoring stations had scores that were tens of thousands of points higher than mine- now I know! They're using these darned things already! Can anyone tell me where there is a prototype so I can go look at it in awe???

Seriously- I think they should take the guy with the highest score, and if it's more than 10% higher than the fifth place score, he should be disqualified. This process should continue until the 5th and 1st place scores are within 10% of each other. Anyone in first place with a score more than 10% higher than the fifth place score is lying out his butt! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[va3win]

Bonnie, I know what you mean but if it were not for contesting, the bands would be relatively quiet and we would begin losing great portions of spectrum to commercial interests.

Use it or lose it or snooze and you lose.

73 de VA3WIN-Jim

[aa8rv]

Bonnie,

# # Do you have any that can sweep, cook, and not nag? I won't care what country their made in-I'm #diverse. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
# # First, hams moan and groan because of the lack of activity on the bands, then they whine because there is too much (contesting). # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[n9jrn]

N2ey Says; Compare a typical midrange HF ham transceiver of today with one from the '60s or '70s
and consider how many features and performance improvements came about because
DXers and contesters pushed for them, developed them, and paid for them. Better
filters, better dynamic range, multiple VFOs, memories, I/O ports, no-tune-up operation,
separate rx antenna inputs, and much much more can all be traced at least in part to
the needs and wants of contesters and DXers.

It's too bad that the average ham can't afford one of these radios,(requires a 6 figure income):blues:

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Nov. 04 2005,15:19)]To me, the section of Part 97 that says I can run only 1.5KW is like stop signs on a shopping mall parking lot; it is just a suggestion!


And who's idea was it to not allow contesting on the WARC bands? As far as I am concerned, those are 3 more bands I should be able to use for any purpose I see fit! After all, I took five written tests plus Morse code tests at 5, 13 AND 20 WPM in order to use any band at any time! I am the one who should be upset over this, not you!

All you rag chewers who only run 100 watts need to just get another hobby like stamp or coin collecting and leave us folks who really know how to make some noise on the bands alone! Sheesh!
Now, there's proof that even a 20wpm code test can't keep the CB mentality out of Ham Radio.

[n0iu]

Wondering if NC5S has heard of such a thing as a sense of humor!

Sheesh!

[ab0re]

Great idea on the ACR. #Now we can devote the entire contest period to ding-dong and potato chip consumption and not have to worry about getting powered donut residue on our paddles anymore. #

However, if a business plan and feasibility study had been done, you'd have realized how "tight" most of us hams are with the pocketbook. ("I'm ticked off that my $250 antenna analyzer doesn't have the same features as this $1500 commercial model!")

Maybe you could do it cell phone style - "Free ACR with 5 year contract!"

73,
Dan / ab0re

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Nov. 05 2005,09:19)]Wondering if NC5S has heard of such a thing as a sense of humor!

Sheesh!
Yes, I have. And, it's very obvious that you don't have one.l

[k8nqc]

I was going to upgrade my straight key for a bug but I don't think I can take the criticism. Actually, the described was farced in a QST article several decades ago (Likely April Issue.) The gist was an automated contest station that permitted the participant to go golfing on a contest weekend as his station rolled up the score.

Contest stations have learned to utilize technology better than most other ham stations. However, that is only part of the story. Good contesters have shown the ability to post excellent scores running modest stations. The contesters are the top tier of amateur radio operators. When I hear the lesser operators throwing barbs at them, it sounds of the kind of envy that high school dropouts have for PHD's. Most of the lower class complainers contribute little to the hobby other than idle chit-chat. The contesters participate in the development and application of innovation in electronics. Only emergency traffic deserves higher priority usage of the ham bands.

Those who want to limit the technology used in operating events may want to join in on vintage equipment tests or straight key night. There are many ways to enjoy this wonderful hobby.

73, Bill

[kd5tlc]

Yeah,but can it make a pot of coffee? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif or dispense a cool refreshing beverage?

[xe1af]

cool beverage please

[M0DSZ]

Brilliant! You've stirred up a real nest of things here! I don't need to reiterate what most members say about the way modern contests go. Last time there was a WW contest all usable HF bands were full, wall to wall, so I did some gardening & woodworking. I did want to do some 20m antenna tests (with REAL signal reports). These contests are is likely to puzzle & deter some new members of the amateur fraternity, and the technically curious. Modern contesting just seems a variation on auto-diallers used by tele-sales clerks.

Best wishes from the English/Welsh border,

Hugh, M0DSZ

[KI9A]

Quote[/b] (VA3KSF @ Nov. 03 2005,07:57)]#

But, folks, when is enough going to be enough?? #

Does anyone have any creative ideas (short of yet more regulations) how the rest of us...who have absolutely no interest in contests...can take our internationally recognized sub-bands back when these stupid clowns are let loose on the air?

73,

Keith Baker
VA3KSF
Keith, thats easy. As soon as "they" regulate the ragchewers, who I have NO interest in hearing about the the WX at their house, or, the lastest aches & pains they have.

As far as the sub bands, it IS legal for those stations to operate SSB down there. IS it in good taste? No. As a contester, I'd like to see them stay up a bit higher. But, for the 2 or 3 weekends a year they do invade the sub-bands, well, c'mon, can't you make good use of the remaining 49 or 50 weekends to have fun??

73-Chuck KI9A

[KI9A]

I was kinda wondering if the idea has been brought forth on the "automatic ragchew machine"?

Programming would be easy. Same time every night, same frequency, of course, you know some ragchewers do "own" a particular frequency because they have met there every evening for the past 45 years.

Exchanges will be easy also:

"been raining all dang day"

"Martha had her gister muscle worked on today"

"my goiter is bothering me"

"darn contesters are on again, I'm gonna cancel my CQ & QST subscriptions."

Then, long, sometimes miniutes of silence, & when an unsuspecting station comes across a seemingly open frequency, & asks if it is in use, it can say " OF COURSE IT IS IN USE DUMMY! WE HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 3 HOURS! CAN'T YOU HEAR US??"

So, before anyone gets their underpants all bunched up, this is a tounge-in-cheek post!! As I ragchew, when I don't contest..

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

73-Chuck KI9A

[KI9A]

Quote[/b] (WB2INY @ Nov. 04 2005,13:47)]5-9!" #I agree, contests are a waste of time, a waste of a chance to meet someone and have an actual conversation, and frustrating when that might be my only time to get on the air and enjoy my hobby for that week. #And hey, I am a dispatcher!!!!!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Waaay wrong on that one pal...I have MANY good friends I have met thru contesting, & even the quick 5-9 exchange over the air is meaningful to some of us..Don't be so quick to judge people just because they don't fit your mold.

73-Chuck KI9A

[N2EY]

Quote[/b] (n9jrn @ Nov. 05 2005,06:55)]N2ey Says; Compare a typical midrange HF ham transceiver of today with one from the '60s or '70s
and consider how many features and performance improvements came about because
DXers and contesters pushed for them, developed them, and paid for them. Better
filters, better dynamic range, multiple VFOs, memories, I/O ports, no-tune-up operation,
separate rx antenna inputs, and much much more can all be traced at least in part to
the needs and wants of contesters and DXers.

It's too bad that the average ham can't afford one of these radios,(requires a 6 figure income):blues:
Quote[/b] ]

N2ey Says; Compare a typical midrange HF ham transceiver of today with one from the '60s or '70s
and consider how many features and performance improvements came about because
DXers and contesters pushed for them, developed them, and paid for them. Better
filters, better dynamic range, multiple VFOs, memories, I/O ports, no-tune-up operation,
separate rx antenna inputs, and much much more can all be traced at least in part to
the needs and wants of contesters and DXers.

It's too bad that the average ham can't afford one of these radios,(requires a 6 figure income):blues:



Ham gear has never been as inexpensive as it is
today - adjusted for inflation, that is.

Look up what those classic rigs cost new - then
calculate the cost in 2005 dollars. Or do the
reverse - adjust the price of a 2005 rig to some
year in the past.

Sure, the top-of-the-line new rigs are incredibly
expensive. But look at what an S-line cost in its
time! Or an IC-781 when it first came out, etc.

We've also got incredible options on good used
rigs. For just one example, consider the TenTec
Omni 6. Well over $2000 new, and you could
spend $2500 if you got a bunch of filters for one.

Now they're going for about $1000 complete,
because the Orion came out.

Lots of other examples.

Of course for some hams $1000 is too much - but there
are many less-expensive examples that still have lots
of features and performance undreamed-of in the past.

73 de Jim, N2EY

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (M0DSZ @ Nov. 07 2005,02:11)]Brilliant! You've stirred up a real nest of things here! I don't need to reiterate what most members say about the way modern contests go. Last time there was a WW contest all usable HF bands were full, wall to wall, so I did some gardening & woodworking. I did want to do some 20m antenna tests (with REAL signal reports). These contests are is likely to puzzle & deter some new members of the amateur fraternity, and the technically curious. Modern contesting just seems a variation on auto-diallers used by tele-sales clerks.

Best wishes from the English/Welsh border,

Hugh, M0DSZ
Wait, you're saying that 12 meters, 17 meters, and 30 meters were being used for the CQWW? And 6 and 2 meters?

I musta missed a lot of mults on those bands....No wonder my score was so low.

[KA7RRA]

Quote[/b] (K2AES @ Nov. 04 2005,12:47)]Great idea! Now, if you could also get it to run down to Mickey D's to bring back coffee and burgers during the contest, you'd really have something.

Tom, K2AES
Call a pizza place they deliver

[wb4jhs]

I think this technology is already been in use on CB Channel 38 LSB. #They finally beat us to the punch and they are wavin the hand at us etc etc...that's all computer generated for years like the Matrix. #No live humans on 27 Mhz. #I think that CB is controlled by Area 51. #If the computer generated QSO's continue we are giving a homing beacon for alien invasions.

Serious replies only. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[vk2qq]

Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Nov. 03 2005,19:00)]I want to know - is ACR male or female. #Could make a difference.
I know of a local ham who did just that, had his wife make the digital CQ recording. It was amazing how many people responded to the 'YL' when he played it. He thinks it definately improved his QSO rate.

[vk2qq]

Quote[/b] (KI9A @ Nov. 07 2005,12:15)]Quote[/b] (WB2INY @ Nov. 04 2005,13:47)]5-9!" #I agree, contests are a waste of time, a waste of a chance to meet someone and have an actual conversation, and frustrating when that might be my only time to get on the air and enjoy my hobby for that week. #And hey, I am a dispatcher!!!!!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I have a friend in Denver whom I have known for over 27 years. We chat about everything under the sun and have visited each other many times.

We met during a contest in 1978.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (ac6v @ Nov. 04 2005,07:11)]Hold On -- During an emergency I'll take a contester as net control ANY TIME. They are adept at catching calls and rapidly understanding content without repeats.

And many can type fast to record messages. Not true of a lot of ARES/RACES folks
...and the last time you had a contester step up to the mike as you said was....

In general, contesters are into contesting, maybe DX. But that's it.

Name a well-known contester in the last few years who helped in a big way in an emergency. Please: prove me wrong--if so, let's applaude them. Go no further than Katrina/Rita.

73,
Chip N1IR

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 07 2005,14:58)]Quote[/b] (M0DSZ @ Nov. 07 2005,02:11)]Brilliant! You've stirred up a real nest of things here! I don't need to reiterate what most members say about the way modern contests go. Last time there was a WW contest all usable HF bands were full, wall to wall, so I did some gardening & woodworking. I did want to do some 20m antenna tests (with REAL signal reports). These contests are is likely to puzzle & deter some new members of the amateur fraternity, and the technically curious. Modern contesting just seems a variation on auto-diallers used by tele-sales clerks.

Best wishes from the English/Welsh border,

Hugh, M0DSZ
Wait, you're saying that 12 meters, 17 meters, and 30 meters were being used for the CQWW? #And 6 and 2 meters?

I musta missed a lot of mults on those bands....No wonder my score was so low.
No;

They're just dead, or mode-limited.

[w1yw]

Look: contesting is fun, but dominated by station/location not skill. Only at the very top of the heap does a slight increase in Q rates indicate a slght difference in skills.

If you listened to the K5ZD stream on CQWW you'd appreciate that skill set--but at this point all the top contesters had it.

It has become very machine-like, so accept and enjoy this humorous parody.

[w6em]

I've scanned through the posts and only one assumes ACR to be digital. #Well, Bonnie, you have a long history of promoting digital modes, so, let's assume that your ACR is, in fact, a digital mode of sorts and not a digitized recorder-based SSB system.

Imagine 500 to 1000 pactor robots sending out bursts, and if no answer after several bursts, an algorithm shifts them up or down in frequency by a random amount and repeats the process. #What fun!!! #Burp, burp, burp everywhere up and down the bands. #And, a successful 'contact' would consist of an auto-logged connect. #Not bad. #But, how often would that happen? #Perhaps thousands of attempts and, unless within a very narrow passband, no contact. #So, more endless burp, burp, burp. #Steered up and down the bands from edge to edge. #Worse than an Irish pub on Saint Patrick's Day.

Years ago, many of us entered the hobby via listening. #Short wave listening. #And, it helped us learn to 'listen first.' #It meant something. #With ACR, I guess that would be possible, but if the person attempting to listen knew that what he or she was trying to tune in was a 'skip to malu' machine with nobody in attendance, why bother?

Now, why would the DX Lobby, the biggest money-provider to the ARRL, support an automated system? #Ah, you say for its efficiency or perhaps the bragging rights of the noveau vitesse, eh? #Not so sure. #Part of being an effective DX 'big-gun' is being able to commandeer a frequency with sheer power. #Frequency hopping would, of course, defeat that goal. #And, how would a receiving station decipher two or more digital stations on the same frequency automatically? #The usual expectation of an operator pulling out a piece of a suffix or prefix to differentiate would be lost, unless, of course, an error-correcting algorithm were allowed to speculate.

I like the idea about the automated debit or charge card attached to the ACR system. #That way, W1AW could, once connected, suck out dues, special contributions, and ARRL officer deferred compensation enhancements right out of our accounts. #Not bad. #Yep, come to think of it, the ARRL would just looooove ACR.

73,

Lee
W6EM

[KI9A]

Quote[/b] (wb4jhs @ Nov. 07 2005,19:04)]I think this technology is already been in use on CB Channel 38 LSB. #They finally beat us to the punch and they are wavin the hand at us etc etc...that's all computer generated for years like the Matrix. #No live humans on 27 Mhz. #I think that CB is controlled by Area 51. #If the computer generated QSO's continue we are giving a homing beacon for alien invasions.

Serious replies only. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W9WHE]

AC6V writes:

"During an emergency I'll take a contester as net control ANY TIME. They are adept at catching calls and rapidly understanding content without repeats"

Only if the message is "your 5/9 Illinois".
Ever give a contester a report that is anything OTHER THAN 5/9? They stammer, him and haw, not knowing what to do.


W9WHE

[KI9A]

Quote[/b] (W9WHE @ Nov. 08 2005,10:09)]AC6V writes:

Ever give a contester a report that is anything OTHER THAN 5/9? They stammer, him and haw, not knowing what to do.


W9WHE
Well, if you "actually"knew anything about contesting, you would know there are many other exchanges than 5/8 IL! I'd love to see you copy a sweepstakes exchange, while trying to copy a weak signal with QRM..

73-Chuck

[KB9KLC]

Quote[/b] (KI9A @ Nov. 08 2005,16:35)]Quote[/b] (W9WHE @ Nov. 08 2005,10:09)]AC6V writes:

Ever give a contester a report that is anything OTHER THAN 5/9? They stammer, him and haw, not knowing what to do.


W9WHE
Well, if you "actually"knew anything about contesting, you would know there are many other exchanges than 5/8 IL! I'd love to see you copy a sweepstakes exchange, while trying to copy a weak signal with QRM..

73-Chuck
Never heard a 5/8 report...and I believe the gentleman you quoted used 5/9. Perhaps a great example of contester accuracy?
73 Greg

[w1yw]

Actually, most contesters don't really listen anyway. They take the part of the call they hear, type it in, and a database pops back the call and inserts it in the log.

However...a valid and close-to-home example

when I SEND N1 IR and they consistently come BACK as K1 IR..well, would you call that a valid QSO?

The skill set used to be about hearing, optimizing, and stamina. Now with CT, packet, and 'voice keyers' (a stupid name by the way; its a SAMPLER) it IS very machine like. CW contests are, IMO, slightly more skill oriented. Phone contests are about station, location, and egos that make sense only to a handful of people on the planet; again, MO.

Thus the deliciousness of Bonnie's parody. And contests ARE fun, to a point.

But it's been a decade since anyone could remotely claim that contesting has enhanced the radio art, IMO.

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (KB9KLC @ Nov. 08 2005,19:56)]Quote[/b] (KI9A @ Nov. 08 2005,16:35)]Quote[/b] (W9WHE @ Nov. 08 2005,10:09)]AC6V writes:

Ever give a contester a report that is anything OTHER THAN 5/9? They stammer, him and haw, not knowing what to do.


W9WHE
Well, if you "actually"knew anything about contesting, you would know there are many other exchanges than 5/8 IL! I'd love to see you copy a sweepstakes exchange, while trying to copy a weak signal with QRM..

73-Chuck
Never heard a 5/8 report...and I believe the gentleman you quoted used 5/9. #Perhaps a great example of contester accuracy?
73 #Greg
Actually I got a lot of different reports in the last WW....5/7, 4/4, etc.

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 08 2005,05:23)]Look: contesting is fun, but dominated by station/location not skill. Only at the very top of the heap does a slight increase in Q rates indicate a slght difference in skills.

If you listened to the K5ZD stream on CQWW you'd appreciate that skill set--but at this point all the top contesters had it.

It has become very machine-like, so accept and enjoy this humorous parody.
I would have to disagree with that. One of the very best U.S. contesters - K6LL - operates from Yuma, AZ, with a pair of 45 - 50 foot towers. No 6 over 6 monobanders; no 2 element 80 meter beams.

Dave is routinely at the top of the heap in contests like SS, Sprint, and NAQP.

Further east, Ken K4ZW is an amazing operator who is often the #1 US finisher in contests like ARRL DX and CQWW. He has 2 towers and overcomes the geographic disadvantage by being a great op with good ears and the ability to do SO2R in his sleep.

[w1yw]

W9WHE has a valid point: contesting has been reduced to a highly machine-assisted activity, that presumes the information content in the QSO. Not only is the signal report/QTH assumed--thru a log assisted computer database--but the CALL is assumed, or at least the subset of possibilities is limited. Thus bona fide 'hearing' needs have been dramatically reduced. It is thus predominantly a machine-driven activity where certain and occasional judgements are made by the operator.

The skills of the operator in 2005 are drastically reduced compared to 30 or 35 years ago.

I do not use 'CT' and I threw the 'voice keyer ' away. And I came in 4th LP in the 10M Contest the last time I was in it. That set me for long time and haven't felt the need to contest for a good long while. But it is fun. That's all it is--please don'y make more of it than it is:-) Listen to Bonnie.

[KI9A]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,05:13)]1) Actually, most contesters don't really listen anyway. They take the part of the call they hear, type it in, and a database pops back the call and inserts it in the log.

2) But it's been a decade since anyone could remotely claim that contesting has enhanced the radio art, IMO.
Well, first off, you are wrong about contesters not listening!! We don't type in "part" of the call & let the computer do the rest! You HAVE to LISTEN to the WHOLE report, because if you don't, & they guy who used to be in CA, is now in NV, then you lose that QSO, plus a couple more!

Second, about contesting "not" enhancing ham radio, do you really think ICOM came up with the IC-7800, & Yaesu with the FT-9000 series rigs for guys who meet on 3898 every evening to talk about the WX?? C'mon..
IMHO, ragchewing has not enhanced the radio art either..

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (KI9A @ Nov. 09 2005,16:54)]Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,05:13)]1) Actually, most contesters don't really listen anyway. They take the part of the call they hear, type it in, and a database pops back the call and inserts it in the log.

2) But it's been a decade since anyone could remotely claim that contesting has enhanced the radio art, IMO.
Well, first off, you are wrong about contesters not listening!! We don't type in "part" of the call & let the computer do the rest! You HAVE to LISTEN to the WHOLE report, because if you don't, & they guy who used to be in CA, is now in NV, then you lose that QSO, plus a couple more!

Second, about contesting "not" enhancing ham radio, do you really think ICOM came up with the IC-7800, & Yaesu with the FT-9000 series rigs for guys who meet on 3898 every evening to talk about the WX?? C'mon..
IMHO, ragchewing has not enhanced the radio art either..
Nah;

In general they don't. And I am not exactly outside the fishbowl OM...I was winning contests when you were a mere wee tyke:-)

You may only get part of the call. Let's say its K$^YZ and you copy '... NH'. Your computer logger (not a real example) then shows K7MYZ and K1MYZ as possibilities. From previous entries on the 'database', K1WYZ is in NH. So the lateedah contest op logs it as K1WYZ. P-R-E-S-S R-E-T-U-R-N. Why ask for a re-send...that wastes time!!

There ya go!Wham bam thank you ham! 'QQQQQ R Z!'

And I haven't even mentioned the egregious number of contesters who use packet and then list themselves as single op....

Plenty of great contest ops. But don't make the fun out anymore than it is...it is basically the ham radio equivalent of 'gaming'. Fun, but not translatable to other things, like ecomms, for example.

Be real interesting if logger-assisted entrants were re-categorized as multiop or 'assisted' as a category; then you'd get some REAL listening skills for those true single op contesters!

As I said, what Bonnie says has a basis in fact. Thus the amusement of the parody.

Sorry you don't get it. For example: these rigs are not an enhancement of the radio art. They are a consumer product incorporating state of the art developed decades earlier. And hams didn't do it--at least AS hams. Not in the last decade..

Ten years is eternity in this fast paced techno world.


73,
Chip N1IR

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,05:13)]
Quote[/b] ]Actually, most contesters don't really listen anyway. They take the part of the call they hear, type it in, and a database pops back the call and inserts it in the log.

What software does this? Which software actually correctly "inserts" the correct contacted callsign into the callsign field?

Quote[/b] ]when I SEND N1 IR and they consistently come BACK as K1 IR..well, would you call that a valid QSO?

No, and it disproves your point. Apparently the software "insert{ed}" in the wrong call. So, clearly, it takes the operator to get the correct call.

Quote[/b] ]The skill set used to be about hearing, optimizing, and stamina. Now with CT, packet, and 'voice keyers' (a stupid name by the way; its a SAMPLER) it IS very machine like. CW contests are, IMO, slightly more skill oriented.

One can choose to use packet or not. The top level contest category is typically the "unassisted" category. And, I'll add, IIRC, no major contest has ever featured a single-op assisted entrant that beat the highest scoring single-op unassisted entrant. In the 2004, CQWW, the unassisted #1 USA winner beat the #2 assisted winner by about 1,000,000 points (about 15%).

The skillset still requires stamina, hearing and optimizing. You must learn to know when to run and when to S&P. You must know which bands are optimum to particular parts of the world. You must be able to hear at leats three different levels of stations. You must certainly have stamina. I invite you to run 46 to 48 hours in the operating chair.

Quote[/b] ]But it's been a decade since anyone could remotely claim that contesting has enhanced the radio art, IMO.

Most recent rigs, the TenTec Orion, Icom 7800, and FT-1000 MP were built with a significant level of functionality designed for contesting. Throw in voice keyers, N1MM logger, and a lot of antenna design, and I think you've gotten wayyy off base on that claim.

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] ]You may only get part of the call. Let's say its #K$^YZ and you copy '... NH'. Your computer logger (not a real example) then shows K7MYZ and K1MYZ as possibilities. From previous entries on the 'database', K1WYZ is in NH. So the lateedah contest op logs it as K1WYZ. P-R-E-S-S #R-E-T-U-R-N. #Why ask for a re-send...that wastes time!!

'cause you don't know if its K1WYZ or KD3YZ or K6XYZ. #You blow the call and NIL it, you're docked 3 QSOs. #Not worth it to guess.

Quote[/b] ]Be real interesting if logger-assisted entrants were re-categorized as multiop or 'assisted' as a category; then you'd get some REAL listening skills for those true single op contesters!

Please don't confuse your inability to learn to use CT or NA or TR with the general populace's ability to log or work dupe sheets. #Its comical to say the least.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,17:23)]Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,05:13)]
Quote[/b] ]Actually, most contesters don't really listen anyway. They take the part of the call they hear, type it in, and a database pops back the call and inserts it in the log.

What software does this? #Which software actually correctly "inserts" the correct contacted callsign into the callsign field?

Quote[/b] ]when I SEND N1 IR and they consistently come BACK as K1 IR..well, would you call that a valid QSO?

No, and it disproves your point. #Apparently the software "insert{ed}" in the wrong call. #So, clearly, it takes the operator to get the correct call.

"My point is that the operator should listen and get it right the first time--not let a database take an educated guess... and what makes you so sure he/she DID the correction?"

Quote[/b] ]The skill set used to be about hearing, optimizing, and stamina. Now with CT, packet, and 'voice keyers' (a stupid name by the way; its a SAMPLER) it IS very machine like. CW contests are, IMO, slightly more skill oriented.


One can choose to use packet or not. #The top level contest category is typically the "unassisted" category. #And, I'll add, IIRC, no major contest has ever featured a single-op assisted entrant that beat the highest scoring single-op unassisted entrant. #In the 2004, CQWW, the unassisted #1 USA winner beat the #2 assisted winner by about 1,000,000 points (about 15%).


"How do you know the winners are unassisted? I've listened to many spots that are jumped on by 'single ops'. You know this is a dirty little problem with a non-trivial number of contesters... get real."

The skillset still requires stamina, hearing and optimizing. #You must learn to know when to run and when to S&P. #You must know which bands are optimum to particular parts of the world. #You must be able to hear at leats three different levels of stations. #You must certainly have stamina. #I invite you to run 46 to 48 hours in the operating chair.

"STAMINA?? Sitting on your butt for hours drinking diet coke is STAMINA:-)? My 13 year old says that when I diss him about video games...

And I HAVE run 48 hours many times. In 1970 I ran 96 in a DX contest. Go figure that one out OM (if you're old enough:-)"

Quote[/b] ]But it's been a decade since anyone could remotely claim that contesting has enhanced the radio art, IMO.

Most recent rigs, the TenTec Orion, Icom 7800, and FT-1000 MP were built with a significant level of functionality designed for contesting. #Throw in voice keyers, N1MM logger, and a lot of antenna design, and I think you've gotten wayyy off base on that claim.

"Crap. The only active #contester who can claim any worth in antenna design is K1NQ. Believe me; I know who the good antenna designers are. And the rigs are consumer items...not ham-based innovation"

"So I've hit the nail on the head...just like Bonnie:-)"


"73,
Chip N1IR"
Comments inserted.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,17:30)]Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,17:18)]
Quote[/b] ]You may only get part of the call. Let's say its #K$^YZ and you copy '... NH'. Your computer logger (not a real example) then shows K7MYZ and K1MYZ as possibilities. From previous entries on the 'database', K1WYZ is in NH. So the lateedah contest op logs it as K1WYZ. P-R-E-S-S #R-E-T-U-R-N. #Why ask for a re-send...that wastes time!!

'cause you don't know if its K1WYZ or KD3YZ or K6XYZ. #You blow the call and NIL it, you're docked 3 QSOs. #Not worth it to guess.

Quote[/b] ]Be real interesting if logger-assisted entrants were re-categorized as multiop or 'assisted' as a category; then you'd get some REAL listening skills for those true single op contesters!

Please don't confuse your inability to learn to use CT or NA or TR with the general populace's ability to log or work dupe sheets. #Its comical to say the least.
Well then, the joke is on you. And you must be #a very young man.

73,
Chip N1IR

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,17:23)]#Throw in ... a lot of antenna design, and I think you've gotten wayyy off base on that claim.
OK; I'll bite.

Can you kindly cite some important and innovative antenna designs that have resulted from contesters, from contesting #since 1996?

The only one I am aware of is an illegal transmission diversity scheme used in G-land at a club contest station-- monobanders were fixed in 4 directions and the signal was split to 4 amplifiers, each #at the base of each tower.

I guess that borders on innovative, and that was actually 1994.

I am always eager to learn, what ya got?

73,
Chip N1IR

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]No, and it disproves your point. #Apparently the software "insert{ed}" in the wrong call. #So, clearly, it takes the operator to get the correct call.

"My point is that the operator should listen and get it right the first time--not let a database take an educated guess... and what makes you so sure he/she DID the correction?"

Well, as you might be aware, with several thousand stations on a given band at one time, it is often difficult to hear the full call on the first shot. #Hence, you get repeats. #And, who else would do the correction, if not the operator? #Not the logging program since it does not "insert" the call into the callsign field of the entry line.

Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]One can choose to use packet or not. #The top level contest category is typically the "unassisted" category. #And, I'll add, IIRC, no major contest has ever featured a single-op assisted entrant that beat the highest scoring single-op unassisted entrant. #In the 2004, CQWW, the unassisted #1 USA winner beat the #2 assisted winner by about 1,000,000 points (about 15%).

How do you know the winners are unassisted? I've listened to many spots that are jumped on by 'single ops'. You know this is a dirty little problem with a non-trivial number of contesters... get real.

Provide me with the callsign of station and the time/date you can demonstrably show that this took place.

Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]The skillset still requires stamina, hearing and optimizing. #You must learn to know when to run and when to S&P. #You must know which bands are optimum to particular parts of the world. #You must be able to hear at leats three different levels of stations. #You must certainly have stamina. #I invite you to run 46 to 48 hours in the operating chair.

STAMINA?? Sitting on your butt for hours drinking diet coke is STAMINA:-)? My 13 year old says that when I diss him about video games...

For 48 hours? #Do you feel refreshed after contesting SO2R for 48 hours?

BTW, you've not commented on the listening abilities, knowledge of propagation, and ability to discern when to run and when to S&P. #I'll then assume your silence to be an acceptance of my points.

Quote[/b] ]And I HAVE run 48 hours many times. In 1970 I ran 96 in a DX contest. Go figure that one out OM (if you're old enough:-)

Which contest in 1970 ran 96 hours? #And you're saying that you went 96 hours without sleep, correct?

Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]Most recent rigs, the TenTec Orion, Icom 7800, and FT-1000 MP were built with a significant level of functionality designed for contesting. #Throw in voice keyers, N1MM logger, and a lot of antenna design, and I think you've gotten wayyy off base on that claim.

Crap. The only active #contester who can claim any worth in antenna design is K1NQ. Believe me; I know who the good antenna designers are. And the rigs are consumer items...not ham-based innovation.

What is with the differentiation of "consumer items" versus "ham-based innovation." #This is a strawman that has no relevance and only attempts to interpose distinctions where none exist. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers with two audion receivers for the general communications market. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers which permit three fully independent sets of antenna selection options. #These are all functions of development which enhanced the "radio art".

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,17:43)]Quote[/b] ]

Please don't confuse your inability to learn to use CT or NA or TR with the general populace's ability to log or work dupe sheets. #Its comical to say the least.
Well then, the joke is on you. And you must be #a very young man.

73,
Chip N1IR
My age or otherwise is not relevant here. Stick with the actual discussion at hand.

[NN3W]

GEMQuad courtesy of SP3GEM. #Well known contester.

Force 12 antennas. #They're not developing for the majority of the amateur of the market as most amateurs don't want stacked, full size yagis. #The contesters do!

K6STI's modeling software which had its genesis in the early 90s has been a pivotal piece of antenna development software.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,17:57)]Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,17:43)]Quote[/b] ]

Please don't confuse your inability to learn to use CT or NA or TR with the general populace's ability to log or work dupe sheets. #Its comical to say the least.
Well then, the joke is on you. And you must be #a very young man.

73,
Chip N1IR
My age or otherwise is not relevant here. #Stick with the actual discussion at hand.
Good point. Are you through personally dissing me?

If so, then tell me about these novel, innovative, contester-made antenna designs from the last 10 years.

Be as technical as you wish. I am an OLD MAN, but I think my neurons (or is it my prostate?) can handle it. Guess at my age I forget what stops working first. Oh, I know...it's the sense of RESPECT that the ignorant young have for the WISE old:-)

73,
Chip N1IR

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,17:56)]What is with the differentiation of "consumer items" versus "ham-based innovation." #This is a strawman that has no relevance and only attempts to interpose distinctions where none exist. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers with two audion receivers for the general communications market. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers which permit three fully independent sets of antenna selection options. #These are all functions of development which enhanced the "radio art".
I am embarrassed that you said something like this.

Innovation in receivers deals with matched filtering; waveform control; and so on. Speak CogRad to me. Speak MIMO.

Ten Tec makes great receivers. But the basic innovation came before they made them, IMO.

We hams are users and it has been a long time since we were innovators--as contesting hams. But, naturally as a contester, you 'contest' that;-)

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,18:02)]Quote[/b] ]My age or otherwise is not relevant here. #Stick with the actual discussion at hand.
Good point. Are you through personally dissing me?

If so, then tell me about these novel, innovative, contester-made antenna designs from the last 10 years.

Be as technical as you wish. I am an OLD MAN, but I think my neurons #(or is it my prostate?) can handle it. Guess at my age I forget what stops working first. Oh, I know...it's the sense of RESPECT that the ignorant young have for the WISE old:-)

73,
Chip N1IR
Again, issues of age are not relevant for purposes of this conversation, and your attempts to rely upon them do not further your arguments.

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,18:09)]Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,17:56)]What is with the differentiation of "consumer items" versus "ham-based innovation." #This is a strawman that has no relevance and only attempts to interpose distinctions where none exist. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers with two audion receivers for the general communications market. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers which permit three fully independent sets of antenna selection options. #These are all functions of development which enhanced the "radio art".
I am embarrassed that you said something like this.

Innovation in receivers deals with matched filtering; waveform control; and so on. Speak CogRad to me. Speak MIMO.

Ten Tec makes great receivers. But the #basic innovation came before they made them, IMO.

We hams are users and it has been a long time since we were innovators--as contesting hams. But, naturally as a contester, you 'contest' that;-)
Put it to you this way, had there not been any contest activity or hams (mostly contesters) who were willing to shell out the $3500 to acquire an Orion (or $4000 for an Orion II), Tentec would never have furthered the development of these technologies and would not have installed them in their transceivers.

Who is featured next to the Tentec Orion in QST and CQ ads? Some fat ham located in his mobile home or some packet guru or some old timer who kibbitzes on 1885 Kc every morning at 6:00 a.m.? No. Its Don Binkley - N4ZZ. A renowned contester.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,18:00)]GEMQuad courtesy of SP3GEM. #Well known contester.

Force 12 antennas. #They're not developing for the majority of the amateur of the market as most amateurs don't want stacked, full size yagis. #The contesters do!

K6STI's modeling software which had its genesis in the early 90s has been a pivotal piece of antenna development software.
OK...I continue to nibble.

So what is new with these designs (only the 10 year old or younger ones now...).

I like Force 12. Explain how their antennas from contesting are innovative as antenna designs.

And please: don't pretend you know about Brian. You know doodly.

Here's what you should know about Brian: 1) He is a bright guy and I like him; 2) hams STOLE his software and deprived him of income. He stopped selling actively to hams for many years. If you don't believe me then ask him; 3) Brian invented a very nice isotropic antenna design that you don't even know about. And he didn't do it for contesters or from contesting. And its more than 10 years old.

Ready for details.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,18:13)]Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,18:09)]Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,17:56)]What is with the differentiation of "consumer items" versus "ham-based innovation." #This is a strawman that has no relevance and only attempts to interpose distinctions where none exist. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers with two audion receivers for the general communications market. #TenTec is not manufacturing transceivers which permit three fully independent sets of antenna selection options. #These are all functions of development which enhanced the "radio art".
I am embarrassed that you said something like this.

Innovation in receivers deals with matched filtering; waveform control; and so on. Speak CogRad to me. Speak MIMO.

Ten Tec makes great receivers. But the #basic innovation came before they made them, IMO.

We hams are users and it has been a long time since we were innovators--as contesting hams. But, naturally as a contester, you 'contest' that;-)
Put it to you this way, had there not been any contest activity or hams (mostly contesters) who were willing to shell out the $3500 to acquire an Orion (or $4000 for an Orion II), Tentec would never have furthered the development of these technologies and would not have installed them in their transceivers.

Who is featured next to the Tentec Orion in QST and CQ ads? #Some fat ham located in his mobile home or some packet guru or some old timer who kibbitzes on 1885 Kc every morning at 6:00 a.m.? #No. #Its Don Binkley - N4ZZ. #A renowned contester.
Incredible.

Let me tell you a secret:

NO ONE MAKES MONEY SELLING TO HAMS.

The markets are elsewhere. That's how TenTec stays in business (more power to them!). Hams are a marketing tag, IMO.

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,18:17)]Here's what you should know about Brian: 1) He is a bright guy and I like him; 2) hams STOLE his software and deprived him of income. He stopped selling actively to hams for many years. If you don't believe me then ask him; 3) Brian invented a very nice isotropic antenna design that you don't even know about. And he didn't do it for contesters or from contesting. And its more than 10 years old.

Ready for details.
I know Brian personally. I have spent numerous times with the man at the San Diego DX club meetings with him, Jim McCook, Rick Craig, Glen Rattman, and many other San Diego DXers and contesters that utilized his software.

Thanks for asking though.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,18:10)]Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,18:02)]Quote[/b] ]My age or otherwise is not relevant here. #Stick with the actual discussion at hand.
Good point. Are you through personally dissing me?

If so, then tell me about these novel, innovative, contester-made antenna designs from the last 10 years.

Be as technical as you wish. I am an OLD MAN, but I think my neurons #(or is it my prostate?) can handle it. Guess at my age I forget what stops working first. Oh, I know...it's the sense of RESPECT that the ignorant young have for the WISE old:-)

73,
Chip N1IR
Again, issues of age are not relevant for purposes of this conversation, and your attempts to rely upon them do not further your arguments.
My point is that your insult based upon my age is out of line and I am calling you on it.

Got it?

Roger that?

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,18:19)]Quote[/b] ]Put it to you this way, had there not been any contest activity or hams (mostly contesters) who were willing to shell out the $3500 to acquire an Orion (or $4000 for an Orion II), Tentec would never have furthered the development of these technologies and would not have installed them in their transceivers.

Who is featured next to the Tentec Orion in QST and CQ ads? #Some fat ham located in his mobile home or some packet guru or some old timer who kibbitzes on 1885 Kc every morning at 6:00 a.m.? #No. #Its Don Binkley - N4ZZ. #A renowned contester.
Incredible.

Let me tell you a secret:

NO ONE MAKES MONEY SELLING TO HAMS.

The markets are elsewhere. That's how TenTec stays in business (more power to them!). Hams are a marketing tag.
Precisely why the only equipment being designed these days is being directed to contesters and DXers. Vertex Standard, Kenwood, Icom, and TenTec are not making much money off of the general amateur populace. So, they manufacture very high end rigs which will yield higher return on investment from a section of the population willing to buy them - again contesters and DXers.

[w1yw]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Nov. 09 2005,18:20)]Quote[/b] (n1ir @ Nov. 09 2005,18:17)]Here's what you should know about Brian: 1) He is a bright guy and I like him; 2) hams STOLE his software and deprived him of income. He stopped selling actively to hams for many years. If you don't believe me then ask him; 3) Brian invented a very nice isotropic antenna design that you don't even know about. And he didn't do it for contesters or from contesting. And its more than 10 years old.

Ready for details.
I know Brian personally. #I have spent numerous times with the man at the San Diego DX club meetings with him, Jim McCook, Rick Craig, Glen Rattman, and many other San Diego DXers and contesters that utilized his software.

Thanks for asking though.
Mazel Tov!

So ask him to correct me, assuming your inference