Am I a bad person?

[kl7aj]

Well, it was inevitable I suppose. #I've heard about Packet Cluster for a couple of decades now, but never knew what it was, and really had no interest in it. #Well, I recently downloaded Commander, since it seemed like a neat way to control my new Ten Tec Jupiter. #Part of the Commander package is DX cluster bandspread, which automatically pops up DX spots on a virtual bandspread dial. #Just on a whim I clicked on on of these DX stations and gave a listen....and then a call...and then I worked him. # Before the night was over I had 6 new entities.

#Is this cheating or something?

# I feel so dirty.


eric

[KC0W]

It's cheating until North Korea or Yemen are on the cluster, then anything goes & all is fair.


Tom kcØw

[W3MIV]

It will make your brain soft and you will go blind.

[N5PVL]

I don't see any problem, but I'm not a DX'er... There may be some aspect of it that I am not aware of.

Seems like a good way for amateurs to utilize the Internet as a tool.

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Oct. 28 2005,08:21)]It will make your brain soft and you will go blind.
That happened a long time ago. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

^_*

eric

[kb2vxa]

Hi guys,

Not cheating, just a crappy way to work DX. It gets crappier when you use a computer automated Internet system when the "time honored tradition" is to use the DX cluster on PACKET. (Durn land line lids.)

Honestly (as if I'm ever dishonest) by the time it shows up in a spot the pileup is well underway. I have had MUCH better luck the good old fashioned way, tuning around with much patience. Hearing his CQ I'm first in line, once worked it's KERPOW, pure pandemonium with the odd unidentified QRZ (What the H is the callsign?) tossed in just for fun.

Then just to add to the confusion I'll post the spot on the >PACKET< DX cluster. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WB2WIK]

I never use the cluster or spotting unless I'm in a multioperator contest situation, where everyone does and if you don't, you'll lose.

At home, operating by myself, I never turn on a computer and the ham equipment at the same time. If I'm on the air, I'm on the air, and computers have nothing to do with it -- which is why although I like digital modes, I rarely use them from home. I love the IC-7800 concept of making the transceiver "digital ready" to go without any computer connection at all; you can use its built-in video display, and the digital software is factory stock, in the radio and not a PC. Plug in a keyboard and you're done. That's the way of the future, I think.

Since I use computers 40+ hours a week, the very last thing I want to look at when I'm home and relaxing is another computer.

WB2WIK/6

[KC7UP]

Dx cluster is the worse thing to happen to dxer's. It desensitize's
your brain.
Curt

[K3STX]

No, it is not cheating. I use it as a 'rough guide" of what is going on. I will freely admit that when I was chasing 9J2BO last winter on 80 M I would go to my COMPUTER to see if Brian had been on or not that evening. I guess I could be lucky and be the FIRST to get there, but more often than not someone else spots him and the feeding frenzy begins.

Sure the old-fashioned way gave more satisfaction, but this is a kind of new-fashioned way.

What WOULD be dirty would be to say you do NOT use the spots and then do it anyway. It is a major problem in contesting, but for DXing is a really about how happy YOU are with yourself.

Frankly, I enjoy pile-ups and honing my skill, so if the computer says nothing is on, I just leave it. If there is something I really need I go for it.

paul

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Oct. 28 2005,09:26)]I never use the cluster or spotting unless I'm in a multioperator contest situation, where everyone does and if you don't, you'll lose.

At home, operating by myself, I never turn on a computer and the ham equipment at the same time. #If I'm on the air, I'm on the air, and computers have nothing to do with it -- which is why although I like digital modes, I rarely use them from home. #I love the IC-7800 concept of making the transceiver "digital ready" to go without any computer connection at all; you can use its built-in video display, and the digital software is factory stock, in the radio and not a PC. #Plug in a keyboard and you're done. #That's the way of the future, I think.

Since I use computers 40+ hours a week, the very last thing I want to look at when I'm home and relaxing is another computer.

WB2WIK/6
What do you think is IN the IC-7800? #The only thing that seems to be missing is the ethernet connector. #Maybe that will be in the IC-7800-II. #At least the underlying O/S doesn't appear to be Windoze.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (K3STX @ Oct. 28 2005,10:48)]No, it is not cheating. I use it as a 'rough guide" of what is going on. I will freely admit that when I was chasing 9J2BO last winter on 80 M I would go to my COMPUTER to see if Brian had been on or not that evening. I guess I could be lucky and be the FIRST to get there, but more often than not someone else spots him and the feeding frenzy begins.

Sure the old-fashioned way gave more satisfaction, but this is a kind of new-fashioned way.

What WOULD be dirty would be to say you do NOT use the spots and then do it anyway. It is a major problem in contesting, but for DXing is a really about how happy YOU are with yourself.

Frankly, I enjoy pile-ups and honing my skill, so if the computer says nothing is on, I just leave it. If there is something I really need I go for it.

paul
Well, in that case I shall do the same. Now that I know how it works...on to bigger and better things. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I should try something NEW...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


eric

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Oct. 28 2005,10:57)]What do you think is IN the IC-7800? #The only thing that seems to be missing is the ethernet connector. #Maybe that will be in the IC-7800-II. #At least the underlying O/S doesn't appear to be Windoze.

73,
Mike WA3KYY
I think it's a RISC dedicated for the required functionality. I don't call that a real computer.

I like that everything's in one box, and the box is the radio, and not the computer. The radio has hundreds of knobs and switches, just like a real radio. No keyboard required unless you want to work digital modes, and no mouse required at all. Like a radio.

And, unless I'm working digital modes, I can use it with my eyes closed, like a radio.

WB2WIK/6

[KD6NIG]

If you want to work stations posted on the internet and win awards for them, and it doesn't make you feel bad, then I don't see why you shouldn't. The bottom line is, that award is something you will have on your wall, and you perhaps will show your friends, but its not like that award is going to cause you to gain extra operating privledges or anything.

Because of that, however you obtain it is your business in my eyes http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Oct. 28 2005,11:08)]Quote[/b] (K3STX @ Oct. 28 2005,10:48)]No, it is not cheating. I use it as a 'rough guide" of what is going on. I will freely admit that when I was chasing 9J2BO last winter on 80 M I would go to my COMPUTER to see if Brian had been on or not that evening. I guess I could be lucky and be the FIRST to get there, but more often than not someone else spots him and the feeding frenzy begins.

Sure the old-fashioned way gave more satisfaction, but this is a kind of new-fashioned way.

What WOULD be dirty would be to say you do NOT use the spots and then do it anyway. It is a major problem in contesting, but for DXing is a really about how happy YOU are with yourself.

Frankly, I enjoy pile-ups and honing my skill, so if the computer says nothing is on, I just leave it. If there is something I really need I go for it.

paul
Well, in that case I shall do the same. #Now that I know how it works...on to bigger and better things. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I should try something NEW...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


eric
Ahh

[KC0W]

The Kenwood TS-2000 has an interesting feature. It has a built in Packet Cluster "receiver" in it. I have one that I use for 6 & 1.2 Gig.

What you do is tune the second VFO to your local 2 meter cluster frequency, while your main hf/vhf/uhf VFO is used for transmiting/receiving. The radio will then display the cluster info on the rigs main screen (callsign & freq) and then go to the exact freq that the DX station is on, if you want it to.

I have tried out this feature for a grand total of one time. Toying around with it for 2 minutes just to be able so say, "yeah, it works."


Tom kcØw

[KC7UP]

Maybe when I win the TS2000 I can try what Tom did.
Curt

[KC0W]

Quote[/b] (KC7UP @ Oct. 28 2005,19:07)]Maybe when I win the TS2000
As of late, there have been a LOT of tech questions on the Gigaparts free TS-2000 give away about operating the TS-2000. All of the answers are available in the Kenwood operating manual. Download is available on the Kenwood website.

Since I already have a 2000, I guess I could use another one to transmit in "stereo." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


"Good luck in the contest,"


Tom kcØw

[KA3RFE]

Well, how about being "the" DX station? One day when I was a novice, I was on 15 meters and called CQ. I got a old Yugoslavia station come back. I worked him and when I cleared, I had four or five other Yugoslavian stations calling me. I managed to work them all, but I was in a panic the whole time.(oh God! oh God! Whatta I do? Whatta I do???) And this was in the novice sub band on 15m!

It would be cool if I could run a number of different countries in a row but I haven't got an antenna up and the last I had one up, the sunspot cycle was going down and I didn't hear much activity anyplace.

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (KA3RFE @ Oct. 28 2005,14:03)]Well, how about being "the" DX station? One day when I was a novice, I was on 15 meters and called CQ. I got a old Yugoslavia station come back. I worked him and when I cleared, I had four or five other Yugoslavian stations calling me. I managed to work them all, but I was in a panic the whole time.(oh God! oh God! Whatta I do? Whatta I do???) And this was in the novice sub band on 15m!

It would be cool if I could run a number of different countries in a row but I haven't got an antenna up and the last I had one up, the sunspot cycle was going down and I didn't hear much activity anyplace.
You can always request that any DX station you work please "post" you as a "spot" on their local cluster. I do this all the time in contests.

Actually, to succeed in HF-DX contests involves many things, but two of them are:

-When finding a "run" frequency and getting my first DX call, I always ask, "Is this frequency clear there?" It's impossible to tell if a frequency is clear at the DX end of the path, unless you ask. If I get two "yes" answers in a row from the first two DX stations worked, I believe it is clear until proven otherwise, and go ahead to try to make a run.

-By my second DX contact on a potential "run" frequency, I always request, "Please put this spot up for me," or something similar, requesting the DX station please list me on their cluster, with my call and frequency. It helps. Within 2-3 minutes, I usually have a run going.

WB2WIK/6

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Oct. 28 2005,11:13)]Well, it was inevitable I suppose. I've heard about Packet Cluster for a couple of decades now, but never knew what it was, and really had no interest in it. Well, I recently downloaded Commander, since it seemed like a neat way to control my new Ten Tec Jupiter. Part of the Commander package is DX cluster bandspread, which automatically pops up DX spots on a virtual bandspread dial. Just on a whim I clicked on on of these DX stations and gave a listen....and then a call...and then I worked him. Before the night was over I had 6 new entities.

Is this cheating or something?

I feel so dirty.


eric
SHAME ON YOU!!!
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/365152/2/Shame_on_You.jpg http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WA2ZDY]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Oct. 28 2005,11:13)]#Is this cheating or something?

# I feel so dirty.
You have sullied your own reputation and fouled the nest. You are a despicable disgrace to the fraternity and I hope your license is already on the way to FCC to be cancelled.

What a disgusting, dirty, unspeakable act. Then you come in here and call yourself a ham? OMG what will happen next?

You should go ask for forgiveness and bathe seven times. Then and only then shall thou be suitably cleansed to come back here and cancel thouest qrz.com account.

Cheater.

But then hey, if you're having fun, isn't that what it's all about?

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] ]"Am I a bad person?"

Only if you use it for evil. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N5PVL]

kb2vxa says:
Quote[/b] ]
Not cheating, just a crappy way to work DX. It gets crappier when you use a computer automated Internet system when the "time honored tradition" is to use the DX cluster on PACKET. (Durn land line lids.)


You are right about that, the present Internet-based system is third-rate compared to a Packet-based cluster, primarily because the Packet-based clusters are local in nature. - This may sound counterintuitive, but it is true none the less.

Packet-based clusters encourage the formation and maintainence of a local DX club, where fellowship, sharing of information and shared resources allow DX'ers to accomplish much, much more.

The local DX club in my area allowed this kind of organization to the extent that they had leased some land nearby and had several 100 ft.+ towers with an ambitious antenna farm, and several high-end HF tranceivers in an air-conditioned building, linked by an advanced, networked computer system. Within a year after the Internet-based clusters became popular and replaced the local Packet-based cluster, this fine organization had ceased to exist. No DX club has since appeared here to replace it. The sense of community was gone, the ability to organise was undermined.

Packet-based clusters give you DX spots from amateurs in your local area, who work with the same propagation conditions as you do. Because of this, the quality and general utility of the spots are much, much higher, and there is less useless information to filter through. Less of your time is wasted with DX spots that do not apply to your unique propagation conditions.

Internet-based clusters basically killed DXing and contesting as an organized, fraternal amateur radio activity here in deep south Texas, and in many other towns and cities across the USA. - Now we still have enthusiasts here and there of course, but without the Packet-based cluster, there is nothing to make these hams aware of each other's existence, much less to draw them together into a community.

It is also true that a local, Packet-based DX cluster encourages the construction and maintenance of independent, ham radio based digital infrastructure. ( Packet network ) The advantages to this are obvious, particularly in times of emergency or disaster.

You get what you pay for. You get out of it - what you put into it. Internet based and Internet linked clusters are a cheapo, non-ham copout way to "enhance" DX and contesting activity, with the kind of third-rate results that one can expect from such a setup.

Having said all that, I will grant that the present Internet-based DX clusters are still useful, if not as useful and because of this, they are better than nothing.

[n2nh]

I wonder if there would be so much made of this if it were named "DXer's Edge"? Image is everything.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Oct. 28 2005,10:57)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Oct. 28 2005,09:26)]I never use the cluster or spotting unless I'm in a multioperator contest situation, where everyone does and if you don't, you'll lose.

At home, operating by myself, I never turn on a computer and the ham equipment at the same time. If I'm on the air, I'm on the air, and computers have nothing to do with it -- which is why although I like digital modes, I rarely use them from home. I love the IC-7800 concept of making the transceiver "digital ready" to go without any computer connection at all; you can use its built-in video display, and the digital software is factory stock, in the radio and not a PC. Plug in a keyboard and you're done. That's the way of the future, I think.

Since I use computers 40+ hours a week, the very last thing I want to look at when I'm home and relaxing is another computer.

WB2WIK/6
What do you think is IN the IC-7800? The only thing that seems to be missing is the ethernet connector. Maybe that will be in the IC-7800-II. At least the underlying O/S doesn't appear to be Windoze.

73,
Mike WA3KYY
Ethernet Connector "IN," SO-239 "out???

Whatever happened to the 'ol' fashune'd" tuning knob? (Oh yeah, that was replaced by a mouse...) <GRIN>

Packet Cluster, whatever. A head's up is just that: whether from a friend over the air, or by electronic means. You STILL have to work the station, although it certainly does increase the pile-up to seemingly obscene proportions.

(But it's not as bad as the nets that use "relay" stations to work DX, and then claim credit for an actual contact.)

[kb2vxa]

Hi again,

"Whatever happened to the 'ol' fashune'd" tuning knob? (Oh yeah, that was replaced by a mouse...)"

And it works VERY well on Field Day for CAT control and "one touch" logging. Oh, did I mention no telephone (Internet) wires? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[wa9cwx]

Years before the Packet DX cluster, we had 2 FM spotting frequencies, prior to that, we used the mail, and just before that, smoke and large trumpets.

The NICE thing about the original (local) cluster was just that, you got to know the locals, the spots were relevant to your area, and you did NOT have to interupt what you were doing to HEAR the spot (like listening to a 319 RST signal who just came back to you).
With the local cluster, I could leave the room, work on a project, whatever, and I knew that whatever was posted I could read about 15 min later.
I tried the internet posts, but it was more aggrivation than anything else.
The most fun is still 'hunt and pounce'.
The only contest I do is the 160 CW one, for that I use packet, and list it as a packet assisted station, even though it doesn't control the radio.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Oct. 28 2005,15:13)]Well, it was inevitable I suppose. #I've heard about Packet Cluster for a couple of decades now, but never knew what it was, and really had no interest in it. #Well, I recently downloaded Commander, since it seemed like a neat way to control my new Ten Tec Jupiter. #Part of the Commander package is DX cluster bandspread, which automatically pops up DX spots on a virtual bandspread dial. #Just on a whim I clicked on on of these DX stations and gave a listen....and then a call...and then I worked him. # Before the night was over I had 6 new entities.

#Is this cheating or something?

# I feel so dirty.


eric
Well, try this. Assuming you are using the dxscape web cluster, Filter the cluster so that you get only the Japan posts. Then try to work the DX that the JA's are working.

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Nov. 02 2005,08:01)]Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Oct. 28 2005,15:13)]Well, it was inevitable I suppose. #I've heard about Packet Cluster for a couple of decades now, but never knew what it was, and really had no interest in it. #Well, I recently downloaded Commander, since it seemed like a neat way to control my new Ten Tec Jupiter. #Part of the Commander package is DX cluster bandspread, which automatically pops up DX spots on a virtual bandspread dial. #Just on a whim I clicked on on of these DX stations and gave a listen....and then a call...and then I worked him. # Before the night was over I had 6 new entities.

#Is this cheating or something?

# I feel so dirty.


eric
Well, try this. Assuming you are using the dxscape web cluster, Filter the cluster so that you get only the Japan posts. Then try to work the DX that the JA's are working.
99.99% of the DX we hear in Alaska is from Japan anyway. I guess I could give it a shot! HI

eric