Stolen Jet is this part of a diabolical or

[kg4kww]

Stolen Jet is this part of a diabolical or sinister plan? (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/12/stolen.plane.ap/index.html)

[w4ass]

you think there would be alittle more police around an airport after 9-11 , so an airplane cant just fly in like this one did,,, someone droped the ball here




73's bob
ki4ltg

[kg4kww]

I'm surprised that more of you haven't commented about this story. Doesn't this sort of thing bother you?
It does me.

[W0LPQ]

Don't bother me a bit. Anyone that is type rated in a Citation III/VII or even other Jet Cessna's could do it. Why would one want to ... maybe a PO'd pilot or crew guy.

He knew how to turn off the transponders which allow radar to track him.

Crash one into a building and it will not do much damage. If it were full of fuel ... maybe a little more due to fire from the Jet-A.

All in all, stupid trick at best. Flying at night is the best time, since no one can see you ... don't know if he had his anti-collision lights on or not. Maybe he did once airborne.

Just goes to show it can be done ... oh well...! Not all airports are as lax ... some are worse ... some are better.

There are a lot more things to worry about besides some idiotic pilot or maintenenance guy with a chip on his shoulder. By the way .. if you think this is the first time this has happened .... wrong. This has happened before and most likely will again.

Bill, W0LPQ

[W9AFB]

Quote[/b] (ki4ltg @ Oct. 12 2005,14:51)]you think there would be alittle more police around an airport after 9-11
There's more airports than Walmarts in this country.

[KF0RT]

News this morning said some guy took it for a 350 mile "joy ride." He's now in custody.

73, Rob

[W0LPQ]

LTG: Private aircraft can ... basically do what you just said. A private aircraft (for the most part) can fly where they desire and land where they desire. A flight plan is not required although in this day and age, it is recommended ... but NOT required.

Corportate aircraft such as the Citation, fly IFR and MUST file a flight plan. Apparently he did not and as stated prior, obviously shut off the transponder so airport radars cannot track him.

There are airports closed to private aircraft, mainly what is called the DC-3 airports. You have to have a flight plan, on file and active, to land there. Some major airports, such as O'Hare and LAX do not readily welcome private aircraft, but if an emergency is declared, land.

Pick up an AOPA or EAA magazine somewhere and read up on what pilots are doing in the face of increased security. It would surprise you.

Bill, W0LPQ

[K3XR]

How is this worse than illegal aliens crossing our southern borders around the clock...maybe one them has stolen the jet.

[k4kyv]

It's Clinton's fault.

[w7lpn]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Oct. 13 2005,21:51)]It's Clinton's fault.
Hey, I've got a novel idea...it's the jet's theif's fault, and maybe somebody left it unsecure? I dought if somebody left the keys in it. Har! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[KC2ESD]

Who ever stole it Had to be good at Flying a Small Jet. If we find out it was some one without a Pilots Lic and learn to fly only on the Microsoft FlightSim stole It means the FlightSim is better then anyone thought so. My Cousin is going to take me up and see if I can Control a Airplane by learning only on the MSFlightsim. I'v flown before on a Airliner to Florida a couple of times but not is a small Airplane.
Rick KC2ESD

[n2nh]

This sounds like an Alert to me! We should all be more Alert! This is what's wrong with the country today! It's not Alert enough!

Plan A - (LINK) (http://www.e-scoutcraft.com/film_can/led_flashlight.html)have 10 year olds learn the code that is keeping people off the ham bands!

http://wear-flashing-jewelry.com/Airliner-t.gif

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ Oct. 14 2005,00:06)]Who ever stole it Had to be good at Flying a Small Jet. If we find out it was some one without a Pilots Lic and learn to fly only on the Microsoft FlightSim stole It means the FlightSim is better then anyone thought so. My Cousin is going to take me up and see if I can Control a Airplane by learning only on the MSFlightsim. I'v flown before on a Airliner to Florida a couple of times but not is a small Airplane.
Rick KC2ESD
Lol, I've often wondered if you could actually fly...

In those movies where the pilot's croak or somesuch, stewardess rushes into cabin, "pilots are dead, anyone know how to fly this plane!?"
"Yeah, I've logged 100 hours and IFR landings on MS flight simulator!"
"What?"

Have done all the aircraft including heli's.

AND battle hardened in Battlefield 1942/Desert Combat and Battlefield II.

Screw reality!

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ Oct. 14 2005,07:57)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ Oct. 14 2005,00:06)] If we find out it was some one without a Pilots Lic and learn to fly only on the Microsoft FlightSim stole It means the FlightSim is better then anyone thought so. My Cousin is going to take me up and see if I can Control a Airplane by learning only on the MSFlightsim.
Rick KC2ESD
Lol, I've often wondered if you could actually fly...

In those movies where the pilot's croak or somesuch, stewardess rushes into cabin, "pilots are dead, anyone know how to fly this plane!?"
"Yeah, I've logged 100 hours and IFR landings on MS flight simulator!"
"What?"

Have done all the aircraft including heli's.

AND battle hardened in Battlefield 1942/Desert Combat and Battlefield II.

Screw reality!
LOL!

Am I a pilot? NO. I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W0LPQ]

ESD: #Per the AOPA Web site, the alleged pilot, holds a commercial multiengine certificate and a Citation I type rating but apparently was not rated in the larger, faster aircraft. #The Citation I is a straight wing aircraft, while the Citation VII is a swept wing aircraft, not even close to similar handling characteristics. #

You can bet he won't be flying for a while now. #I think it would be a good guess that the FAA will revoke his Pilot Certificate ... he's gonna be grounded for life.

The Microsoft Flight Simulator will not teach you to fly. It takes stick time ON an aircraft to learn to understand aerodynamics ... that does not come from a cheap flight simulator. There are places like Flight Safety that are approved places. They use actual aircraft cockpits with a lot of simulation, but these are full 3-axis machines not a computer keyboard/screen simulation.

AOPA.org is one site for good flying info.

Bill, W0LPQ

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (W0LPQ @ Oct. 14 2005,05:25)]ESD: #Per the AOPA Web site, the alleged pilot, holds a commercial multiengine certificate and a Citation I type rating but apparently was not rated in the larger, faster aircraft. #The Citation I is a straight wing aircraft, while the Citation VII is a swept wing aircraft, not even close to similar handling characteristics. #

You can bet he won't be flying for a while now. #I think it would be a good guess that the FAA will revoke his Pilot Certificate ... he's gonna be grounded for life.

The Microsoft Flight Simulator will not teach you to fly. #It takes stick time ON an aircraft to learn to understand aerodynamics ... that does not come from #a cheap flight simulator. #There are places like Flight Safety that are approved places. #They use actual aircraft cockpits with a lot of simulation, but these are full 3-axis machines not a computer keyboard/screen simulation.

AOPA.org is one site for good flying info.

Bill, W0LPQ
However, M$ flight simulator will teach you how to crash quite well.

(Thats about all I did when I played that ^*%^&*%^ game!)

[W5HTW]

Never crashed a real airplane - never even had a close call, though there was that occasional moment of panic when I wondered for a split second "Did I just forget something?"

Ah, but yes, MS Flight Simulator teaches crashes REAL well! I have totalled a large number of aircraft on flight simulator. And walked away from every crash! Uninjured, even! Every airplane known to FS I have crashed dozens of times. Sometimes it's easier to terminate the program while still 3,000 feet above the runway, and shut down the computer. At least I didn't crash.

FS is a game. And should be treated as such. It is a fun program, though, and I have it somewhere on the computer still. Probably fire it up a couple of times a year. Ah, that's the problem - not enough cockpit time.

Ed

[W2LYS]

Quote[/b] ]Am I a pilot? NO. I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

But did you save a bunch of money on your car insurance by switch to Geico?

[k9cn]

Not totally related, but this reminds me of something.

Anyone else remember the incident about 10-15 years back when a private plane started flying east from the U.S. on a fixed course over the Atlantic and couldn't be raised via radio? The Coast Guard or Navy flew over to check it out and could see the pilot slumped over the controls. When the plane finally ran out of fuel and landed in the water, rescue swimmers, in a daring rescue, were able to extract the pilot who was still alive.

So far, so good!

Then things started getting strange.

Turns out the pilot was unconscious because he had been shot in the abdomen with a large calber handgun. Oddly, he "couldn't remember" or explain how he got shot and was as surprised as anyone to learn about it. This raised eyebrows because he was the only one in the plane...

As I recall, the FAA smelled a rat and revoked his license until his memory started improving. Also, the papers discovered some financial shenanigans in his past, but after a while the whole things sort of faded from the news and I never did hear whether the truth or explanation ever came out. It was a mighty weird story anyway you looked at it.

Anyone else remember this? Anyone ever learn the real explanation?

Enquiring minds want to know!

[KF0RT]

Sounds vaguely familiar. If you've got the ID number of that plane (or even a close date), you can probably look it up in the FAA's incident database to see the official report.

Not that it will solve the riddle. The public reports tend to be very "clinical" and lack names (to protect the guilty / innocent?). The reports aren't very detailed and I suspect they are "sanitized" versions for public consumption.

There are a number of aviation "crash" sites on the web that might have the answer, though. Seems that tracking this stuff is a hobby for some.

I know of a guy who researches old military plane crashes in Colorado. He hikes to the actual crash site (often a daunting task) and if there's anything left, he'll sometimes offer tours to the airmen's family. No cost, just a courtesy thing for family members who might be interested. Kind of ghoulish, IMO, but apparently many families take him up on it.

73, Rob

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (W0LPQ @ Oct. 14 2005,05:25)]The Microsoft Flight Simulator will not teach you to fly. It takes stick time ON an aircraft to learn to understand aerodynamics ... that does not come from a cheap flight simulator. There are places like Flight Safety that are approved places. They use actual aircraft cockpits with a lot of simulation, but these are full 3-axis machines not a computer keyboard/screen simulation.
Thanks for that, after flying MS FS so well, I was seriously going to jump in a plane, and fly it around.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Heck, if it's like every other MS product, I would get attacked by viruses while in the air!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KC2ESD]

After reading the full story on AOPA.org It seems the 22 year old pilot will loose his wings for a good long time. It was the second time he took a Aircraft for a joyride, the first offence was in a Cherokee.
Wish me luck, I'm going up in November in a Cessena 172 with my cousin. 73 de Rick KC2ESD

[kg4kww]

Once again you guys have crashed landed and missed the point (Runway). Now Listen UP. It appears that K3XR #has been the only one to find the run way.

Quote[/b] ]<span style='color:red'>k3xr -- How is this worse than illegal aliens crossing our southern borders around the clock...maybe one them has stolen the jet.</span>


Another words, how do you know that some one hasn't stolen a plan and flown it into this country undetected?

And that's a reality that we all have to come to grips with. So, let's take off the blinders and look at this thing from a serious point of view.

This concerns me as it should every one of you. We need the Gov on both the Fed and State levels #to work with the FAA to develop a plan to prevent this from happening again.

So, lets get serious folks ok.

Thanks

[W0LPQ]

KWW: I would suggest that you log onto the AOPA.org site and read. I would presume that your knowledge of aircraft, airports and security is lacking quite a bit.

There are already programs in place and working. This incident was an isolated case. The guy was a pilot, had access to the airport and it would appear the aircraft was unlocked. If it was between flights I can understand this. Just because some idiot wants to show off and ... at night no less ... makes it a little more difficult to control. If the guy knows the airport layout, which it appears he did quite well, he knows how to start the aircraft and can check for enough fuel to do &quot;his thing&quot;, start the aircraft and ... I would bet, did NOT for obvious reasons, turn any lights on and take off.

As has been said, it has happened before and will most likely happen again. This particular aircraft even if flown into a building would not do much damage. You cannot compare this bird and a 767 or 757...! Not even close.

This incident is not part of your so called diabolical plot. There is cause for concern yes, panic no. It is obvious that something on the airport is lacking however....any aircrew member who is known to FBO personnel can walk out to an aircraft. If they DON'T know you, then you have a problem getting out on the flight line.

Search the AOPA site and read. There is a lot of info there regarding security and how the AOPA and other organizations are working with the FAA.

Your knowledge of airports, the FAA and aircraft in general is lacking. Again, search the AOPA site and do some research. General aviation is not the problem, it is crackpots and people out to &quot;impress&quot; their girlfriends who are the problem. Can they be stopped, possibly. It takes diligence. Not all airports have a control tower. Even with security fences, someone can hop over and if he knows the aircraft, and it is unlocked and has enough gas to fly, and ... oh well. Usually these guys are stopped in their tracks. No system is 100 percent foolproof. That is why the AOPA has worked with the FAA to make these kinds of things &quot;not happen&quot;.

It was dark and the saga goes on. Would not have happened in broad daylight.

ESD: Have fun in the 172. Nice airplane and not hard to handle. You will probably get a chance to control the bird and just make sure your motions are not jerky, but smooth and steady. You will have a ball..!

Bill, W0LPQ

[kg4kww]

I disagree, this is being taken way to lightly. You don't know if some nut could do the same thing as this person did and instead of landing at a airport land on a highway or in a city. This is serious and needs to be taken as such.

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Oct. 15 2005,19:44)]I disagree, this is being taken way to lightly. You don't know if some nut could do the same thing as this person did and instead of landing at a airport land on a highway or in a city. This is serious and needs to be taken as such.
People land on hiways all the time, someone just did it out here a couple weeks ago when their plane died.

Crashing on of these planes wouldn't do any more damage then ramming a large SUV into a building at 120mph. Or a semi. Where's your concerne for that?

[kg4kww]

concern is for loss of life, fuel (Jet A) expolding.

This is my concern.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Oct. 15 2005,20:44)]I disagree, this is being taken way to lightly. You don't know if some nut could do the same thing as this person did and instead of landing at a airport land on a highway or in a city. This is serious and needs to be taken as such.
Okay... So what's YOUR solution?

73, Rob

[kg4kww]

Since you all seem to be experts in everything why don't you tell me what the solution is.

How about better radar systems that keep pick up low flying aircraft, for starters.

[W0LPQ]

KWW: The radar systems now in use are just fine. #You apparently have no clue how aircraft are ID'd when in flight.

When you look at a radar system, there usually is a flat antenna system on top of the radar antenna. #This is the device which interrogates the aircraft transponder. #If the transponder is OFF, then there are NO replies, thus no display of aircraft data.

Mode S systems of today have the aircraft type, N number and flight ID number encoded, also included is aircraft altitude.

If the Mode S system is OFF, it does not work. #That is by FAA design. #If the system were turned on on the ground (some do operate that way, but are interlocked with the gear strut switch) the displays in the control rooms would be plain garble, due to the amount of clutter from non airborne aircraft.

The Cessna that was stolen had a transponder but it was OFF..! That way he could not be tracked (and he knew it). Most aircraft today have either a Mode A/C or Mode S transponder.

Any other ideas KWW?

Bill, W0LPQ

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Oct. 16 2005,11:57)]Since you all seem to be experts in everything why don't you tell me what the solution is.

How about better radar systems that keep pick up low flying aircraft, for starters.
Life is a risky business, and I doubt any of us are willing to pay what it would cost to make it &quot;perfectly safe.&quot; I don't think I'd want to live in such a place.

We can't catch half of the aircraft that run drugs into this country, and they're flying over borders.

You saw what a rental truck full of fertilizer can do, and you're worried about some guy joy riding in a Citation?

73, Rob

[kb2vxa]

Stolen cars end up at the city projects, stolen aircraft end up at Briscoe. HAR!

&quot;Not all airports are as lax ... &quot;

Only one, Los Angeles International, LAX. (;-&gt;) Seriously, there's nothing at all unusual here, you can land un-noticed late at night at just about any uncontrolled airport and just walk away.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ Oct. 16 2005,15:19)]Seriously, there's nothing at all unusual here, you can land un-noticed late at night at just about any uncontrolled airport and just walk away.
Or in the day with no airport at all...

73, Rob