Northwest and Delta Airlines file Chapter 11

[al2n]

So much for pensions and decent wages.

The work groups will get the shaft while the executives will get millions in golden parachutes.

Coming soon to a flight near you- mechanics and baggage handlers making near minimum wage with a retirement plan that has been gutted. You think they care about quality of service when they qualify for food stamps?

More airlines will soon follow. The friendly skies are a thing of the past.

[ab8ma]

The Auto companies are next. Retirement benefits cut. Health insurance striped.

Sorry Mike, Guess I will need to put off my visit.


Bob - AB8MA

[KA9VQF]

But the economy is doing great.

Just ask W

[al2n]

Got some friends at Northwest and they are pretty upset.

Work for a company for 35 years and now their retirement is history.

Think I am going to go back to school and finish my degree while I can afford it.

[K6UEY]

Look at the good side of it,first of all people spend too much for unnecessary travel any way,now they will have money to put into investments,secondly the added Bonus there are several Socialist Labor Unions that will no longer undermine the US economy.

Look at the long term good effects,fewer airlines,fewer airplanes needed so Boieng can get rid of their Unions ,fewer strikes,less runaway inflation for the HONEST working man. # # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KC0W]

I guess the striking Northwest employees finally did what they set out to do........Help to bring down an airline. Congrats to them.

This is truely a no win for everyone involved.


Tom kcØw

[K6UEY]

AB8MA,
Hey !! how about those G M guy's,where do they get off thinking they should be making a profit for their stock holders. That is not what the Auto industry is for,only the BIG Socialist Labor Union's are suppose to be making the profit.

You allow GM to make a profit then before you know it FORD will want a piece of the pie , then CHRYSLER, then who know who else will want in,soon there won't be anything left to extort from the companies,it will all be going to the investors,and why should they make a profit ?? # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 14 2005,15:17)]AB8MA,
Hey !! how about those G M guy's,where do they get off thinking they should be making a profit for their stock holders. That is not what the Auto industry is for,only the BIG Socialist Labor Union's are suppose to be making the profit.

You allow GM to make a profit then before you know it FORD will want a piece of the pie , then CHRYSLER, then who know who else will want in,soon there won't be anything left to extort from the companies,it will all be going to the investors,and why should they make a profit ?? # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Kind of makes you think about investing in Mobil Oil? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


I bought Ford in 1991 at $34. I dumped it this year, along with all the various spin-offs I had inherited as a result, such as Visteon, Some insurance company, some financial corporation, and others - all spun off from Ford since 1991.

If I were 18 again, I think I would go into Taxes rather than Chemistry. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KA9VQF]

Ya know Orv, you see this as really good for the country, I see it as the end of this country.

When the big companies are all gone where will anyone work?

Do a web search on the 1920 to the 1940’s use the key word ‘depression’ if you can’t see that things are already well on the way to having a new one you truly are a good Republican.

Think about it, if no one is working at any company there will be no one to buy what that company is no longer making. Even if the company does move to China who will be able to buy what is imported?

While I think the big unions have outlived their role and lost focus of their goals they were a really big improvement over what had been going on before they were organized.

[KA8NCR]

You can't operate an airline based upon a business plan formulated during 1970's regulation.

The upstart airlines have an advantage because GE and Rolls-Royce figured out that they do not just have to build engines and provide parts, they can provide maintenance and it's cheaper for the airline.

My personal opinion is that it couldn't have happened to a worse airline -- Northworst. "Service with a snarl" seems to be their mission statement, and from now on I'll fly ANYONE but Northwest. After pushing me back from 10:00 a.m. to 8 p.m. for a flight out of MCO (that I paid for a year in advance), and refusing to book me on any earlier flights, I'd not shed a tear if they were liquidated except for the thousands of innocents that end-up without a job.

It's unfortunate, but pensions are now an arcane concept from the twentieth-century. They were there to attract qualified people, now they're an albatross around the neck of companies trying to compete against foreign companies that don't have this expense and pay their employees easily more than half the wages.

If GWB were half the leader he proclaims himself to be, he'd get on TV and announce that you shouldn't count on having a pension when you retire, and you shouldn't count on social security. Start saving and investing, and hope to hell the country doesn't go bankrupt and kill THOSE savings off. Then, we can start phasing out pensions and social security. If you're my age (under 40), start saving now because you'll get neither when it comes to retirement.

[kc7rs]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ Sep. 13 2005,16:38)]...If GWB were half the leader he proclaims himself to be, he'd get on TV and announce that you shouldn't count on having a pension when you retire, and you shouldn't count on social security. #Start saving and investing, and hope to hell the country doesn't go bankrupt and kill THOSE savings off. #Then, we can start phasing out pensions and social security. #If you're my age (under 40), start saving now because you'll get neither when it comes to retirement.
You apparently haven't been listening very carefully. GWB has been promoting exactly what you describe. The Democratic leadership has been resisting that concept saying that Social Security is just fine. We don't need to change anything.

[K6UEY]

Don't put the monkey on GWB's back if you want to assign blame put on the Congress. Every bill that has come up to encourage the public to save has been bought off in congress. They stuffed the cash in their pockets and shot the bill down.

I know it is presently PC to bash bush but Congress has had over 50 years to encourage people to save,if you check you won't find any congressman who live paycheck to paycheck but you find a lot of John Q Public doing it.

[al2n]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ Sep. 14 2005,15:38)]It's unfortunate, but pensions are now an arcane concept from the twentieth-century. #They were there to attract qualified people, now they're an albatross around the neck of companies trying to compete against foreign companies that don't have this expense and pay their employees easily more than half the wages.

If GWB were half the leader he proclaims himself to be, he'd get on TV and announce that you shouldn't count on having a pension when you retire, and you shouldn't count on social security. #Start saving and investing, and hope to hell the country doesn't go bankrupt and kill THOSE savings off. #Then, we can start phasing out pensions and social security. #If you're my age (under 40), start saving now because you'll get neither when it comes to retirement.
Problem is that you have many people who have been working 35-50 years with the airline and were told time and again that the pension would be there.

I agree with you on the 40 and under statement. I have no illusions of social security or retirement plans. Just want to make enough to pay the bills and put some away for a rainy day.

Even that is getting harder and harder these days. Just got a letter from the gas company. Rates are going up 20% this winter. They went up 20% last winter as well.
That hurts when you go from October to April with the temp always below freezing. May as well sell a kidney and get it over with.

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (kc7rs @ Sep. 14 2005,15:48)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ Sep. 13 2005,16:38)]...If GWB were half the leader he proclaims himself to be, he'd get on TV and announce that you shouldn't count on having a pension when you retire, and you shouldn't count on social security. Start saving and investing, and hope to hell the country doesn't go bankrupt and kill THOSE savings off. Then, we can start phasing out pensions and social security. If you're my age (under 40), start saving now because you'll get neither when it comes to retirement.
You apparently haven't been listening very carefully. GWB has been promoting exactly what you describe. The Democratic leadership has been resisting that concept saying that Social Security is just fine. We don't need to change anything.
Next time, I'll be sure to use "the President of the United States, whatever the political affiliation".

I said they need to 'fess up and say "if you're under <insert reasonable age>, you're not getting social security and don't count on anything from your employer". Restructuring social security isn't going to fix the ponzi scheme. Of course it's not broke right now as far as most people see it, they're on the receiving end and the money isn't going to run out tomorrow. I'm all for drawing a line in the sand that says "you ain't getting it, period" and throw me a bone by making my IRAs and 401k retroactively Roth/tax-free.

The position of the Democrats is against privatization, not necessarily reform. The bad news there is that the limit to their creativity is simply to raise taxes. The Republican plan isn't any better though. The last thing I want is the government picking my funds and stocks for me -- no chance for abuse there.

Even if nothing changes, the fact remains that the US taxpayer will end up paying pensions on hundreds of thousands of employees of businesses that can no longer pay the pensions themselves. GM, Ford and Chrysler are probably next in line to dump those obligations on the pension guaranty insurance fund.

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 14 2005,15:53)]Don't put the monkey on GWB's back if you want to assign blame put on the Congress. Every bill that has come up to encourage the public to save has been bought off in congress. They stuffed the cash in their pockets and shot the bill down.

I know it is presently PC to bash bush but Congress has had over 50 years to encourage people to save,if you check you won't find any congressman who live paycheck to paycheck but you find a lot of John Q Public doing it.
You're absolutely right, this is a problem that isn't of his making. But, the monkey is his because he's the president. And make no mistake about it, what I'm about to fault him for is a weakness of many presidents.

Since he's technically a long term lame-duck president, it's my opinion that if he had any concern for the people he allegedly serves, he'd speak right from the hip and give it to the people straight. But he doesn't, and few politicians do. They have no backbone to give bad news. Just a lot of backbone to try to write stupid exclusionary clauses into the Constitution.

Lemme ask you a question. I don't know if you're retired, but if you're not, play along and imagine spending your days doing whatever you want. You're knee deep in rushing cold water trying to land some brown trout in the early morning air (that's my vision, substitute your own). Which do you think is tops on your big-deal o'meter?

1. How much money I have to live on until I assume room temperature/embark on a new career as a soil additive?

2. Whether homosexuals can marry?

Be honest, which one is going to affect your retirement the most? And which one has received most of Bush's attention?

[w0aew]

My retirement plan? High cholesterol diet and plenty of beer. I doubt I'll have to fret about retirement.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (al2n @ Sep. 14 2005,15:53)]Problem is that you have many people who have been working 35-50 years with the airline and were told time and again that the pension would be there.
The underfunding of pension obligations is another situation that is inexcuseable. Northwest filed bankrupcy to specifically avoid having to pay $63 million in pension obligations.

I agree, it's not fair to people who upheld their end of the bargain, being a reliable employee in exchange for a pension.

As far as the kidney, lemme know when it goes on sale. I plan on putting one on the market and no use flooding the market and competing with each other.

[KC7UP]

Personally I think NorthWest airline should have gone down the tube and stayed there a long time ago. No other airline, except defunt American, has had as many strikes as they have.
Curt

[n7rjd]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 14 2005,09:53)]Don't put the monkey on GWB's back.......
I thought we got the monkey off his back last November, oh wait, an orangutan isn't technicall a monkey is it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KI6ADA]

I am staying on the Railroad, who says flying is safer? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KA7RRA]

I work at BOEING,yes iam on strike If the airlines go bankrup,and stop buying airplanes I well be out of a job
So much for the strike so much for the union
Dave
KA7RRA