FEMA Strikes Again!

[w4lgh]

Submitted by Bill Weinberg on Sun, 09/11/2005 - 03:02.
Sarah Ferguson of the Village Voice reports Sept. 8 of the feds shutting
down yet another citizens' self-help initiative:

Although the effort was trumpeted in the media as an example of grassroots
ingenuity in the face of disaster, local officials with the Federal
Emergency Management Agency have nixed an attempt by Houston activists to
set up a low-power radio station at the Astrodome that would have broadcast
Hurricane Katrina relief information for evacuees.

The project was unplugged even though it had key support. On Monday, the
Federal Communications Commission quickly granted temporary licenses to
broadcast inside the Astrodome and the adjacent Reliant Center. The station
was also backed by the Houston Mayor's office and Texas governor Rick Perry.
But local officials said FEMA bureaucrats KO'd the station-dubbed KAMP "Dome
City Radio"-because of "security concerns."

"They wanted unlimited access to the buildings, which we could not give to
anyone in the media," said Gloria Roemer, a spokesperson for Harris County,
which has jurisdiction over the Astrodome complex. Currently reporters are
allowed in only on 15-minute guided tours.

According to Roemer, FEMA officials also believed they could not allocate
"scarce" electricity, office space, and phone and Internet access to the
volunteer station even though activists say they offered to run the station
on batteries and use their own cellphones.

Supporters of KAMP, which was set to launch at 95.3 FM, blame red tape and
bureaucrats seeking to "manage the news."

"I'm very disappointed," said Councilmember Ada Edwards, who represents a
mostly black district in central Houston and had issued a letter of support
for the station. "One of the real challenges of this big tragedy has been
access to communication--open and honest communication. I really hoped this
would be an open outlet for people to get information that was unscripted
and that would really address their needs.

"But it seems par for the course in terms of how this whole thing has been
rolling out with FEMA and the Red Cross trying to keep tight control and
manage the news," Edwards complained. "It's really sad when these people
feel they have to sanitize all the time."

Activists with Houston Indymedia and Pacifica radio first brainstormed the
idea over the weekend when they visited the Astrodome and spoke to swamped
relief workers and survivors desperate for information about emergency
services and news from back home...

But donated radios continue to pour into KPFT, the local Pacifica station,
and volunteers say they plan to begin distributing them anyway in hopes they
can set up some kind of station in the Astrodome parking lot, or else
partner with KPFT to provide news for hurricane survivors...

Although the number of evacuees housed at the Astrodome and George R. Brown
Convention Center downtown has dwindled from 25,000 to about 8,000, many of
the survivors remain temporarily lodged in smaller shelters and private
houses around Houston. All told, the FCC has issued some 20 temporary
licenses for a low-power emergency relief stations in the wake of Hurricane
Katrina, including a volunteer-run station in Louisiana.

Original info from:
Gregory S. Williams
k4hsm@lock-net.com


Posted to QRZ by:
W4LGH - Alan
St Johns County ARES-EC
http://www.w4lgh.com

[k5co]

It would be a good idea to have a standard frequency, perhaps at 550 AM or some such, for use in all cities during times of disaster. Everyone has a small radio; what a waste not to use this idea.

[w9xjw]

We have met the enemy and it is US.

[al7n]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Sep. 14 2005,13:22)]It would be a good idea to have a standard frequency, perhaps at 550 AM or some such, for use in all cities during times of disaster. Everyone has a small radio; what a waste not to use this idea.
Quote[/b] ]It would be a good idea to have a standard frequency, perhaps at 550 AM or some such, for use in all cities during times of disaster. Everyone has a small radio; what a waste not to use this idea.

Way I see it, the use of a designated local AM station on it's regular frequency would be a better idea, as those that had operable BATTERY POWERED radios would know where to find it. # The local station should be "hardened" against known local disaster possibilities, so it could remain on the air. Or be got quickly back on the air.
#
Bigger problem though is what programming to be put on there...ideally this would be output from the ICS command staff PIO. #You still have a communications problem with getting the PIO connected to the local AM outlet however, unless that is pre-arranged in a hardened mode somehow.

In this situation in the Gulf Coast, I am having a hard time seeing where NIMS/ICS was even employed at all.
Nothing seems to have been organized at any level until the military (with their own disciplined operations) got into the picture. #Everybody was finding out what was happening here and there by watching the video feeds from Fox news and CNN, but that didn't help organize a damn thing. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[K6UEY]

Wasn't 560 AM designated an Emergency information frequency nationally ?? It may have been some time back but I don't recall it being changed,unless it was one of the new 21st Century changes,made to purposely confuse everyone. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KB1KIX]

I'm not surprised - the FCC caved in to corporate interests and said community organizations shouldn't have 100W stations, in extremely limited circumstances.

It's a shame, I really can see a 100W station causing HUGE problems to that 90,000W giant!

Jonathan

[N8CPA]

At one time, there were two assigned CONELRAD (sp?) frequencies specified on the AM dial. #One toward the low end, 640, one toward the high end, 1240. #In addition, local AM stations could be fed the same information. The current EBS superceded CONELRAD years ago, and not nearly as useful as what it replaced, because of a lack of frequency standard.

"Had this been an actual emergency, you would have been instructed to tune to 640 or 1240 on your radio dial for further instructions and information."

[KD5PMU]

AHHH The Federal Goverment Seems to be controlling everything now days Hum Land of the free ? These are the same guys that tell all the Emergency Communicators Emergency Responders they cant do things because of Security reasons Safety reasons but then allow the Media to waltz in the Diaster Area and publically announce that our commander in Chief the Prez is staying on board the U.S.S Iwo Jima Docked in New Orleans WOW Dead Give away for our enemies across on the other side of the world huh Perfect Security huh these are the guys the didnt let Emergency Communicators into New Orleans because of Safety Reasons but then let Actors like Senn Penn and Adam Walsh from AMW to waltz in there not to mention out PREZ I wonder what makes thier immune sysytem better than ours HUM and then they are there trying to figure out why things fell apart and Failed I dont think I will ever feel safe anywhere in America when ours leaders and government are just so Dense I mean come on thats just crazy what next From Homeland Security FEMA and all other Agencies wil they allow the Media to announce where the Nuclear codes are located at GESSH somethings got to be done here.

[w6em]

C'mon, guys, think...... #Forget AM. #Inefficient antennas, poor propagation. #At 95.3MHz, a quarter wave would be what, about 29 inches?

It was stopped because the Feds don't want anything said that might reflect or spread the ideas and opinions of the evacuees. #They just might get some collective support for a few proper demandments.

One question, that keeps haunting me, is "why did AF-1 take off from Phoenix on Monday, August 29th in the afternoon and, instead of flying to and landing at Keesler AFB MS, it flew to San Diego. #Then, on Wednesday, August 31, it did a 'fly-by' at about 1000 feet and instead of landing at Keesler AFB, it went on to Andrews AFB, MD. #Why? #Anybody got any ideas?

Sure would be interesting to ask the evacuees over the radio station what they thought about the itinerary.

Lee
W6EM

[W9AFB]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 14 2005,17:16)]#Then, on Wednesday, August 31, it did a 'fly-by' at about 1000 feet and instead of landing at Keesler AFB, it went on to Andrews AFB, MD. #Why? #Anybody got any ideas?
cause Keesler is a wreck

http://www.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?storyID=123011495

[W9AFB]

CONELRAD is what the EAS/EBS came from. #
More here CONELRAD (http://www.westgeorgia.org/conelrad/)

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Sep. 13 2005,17:58)]At one time, there were two assigned CONELRAD (sp?) frequencies specified on the AM dial. #One toward the low end, 640, one toward the high end, 1240. #In addition, local AM stations could be fed the same information. The current EBS superceded CONELRAD years ago, and not nearly as useful as what it replaced, because of a lack of frequency standard.

"Had this been an actual emergency, you would have been instructed to tune to 640 or 1240 on your radio dial for further instructions and information."
Yep. #I think CONELRAD stood for controlled electromagnetic radiation or some such. #If I recall, the idea was to purposefully QSB the carriers so the ENEMY couldn't easily DF the locations of the transmitters.

We didn't want the Sovietskees to draw a bead on any of our cities from their cockpits.

I still have an old CD decal on one of my old sliderules from back in the '60s. I was also a controller at a radio site that was a NAWAS alert site. #It was tested every week. #NAWAS stood for the national attack warning and alert system. #A telco-based alert network to federal and state agencies that would have issued alerts in the event of a real nucular (Bush's pronunciation of nuclear) attack.

Lee
W6EM

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (W9AFB @ Sep. 13 2005,18:22)]Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 14 2005,17:16)]#Then, on Wednesday, August 31, it did a 'fly-by' at about 1000 feet and instead of landing at Keesler AFB, it went on to Andrews AFB, MD. #Why? #Anybody got any ideas?
cause Keesler is a wreck

http://www.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?storyID=123011495
OK. #Maxwell AFB in Montgomery wasn't. #And, Baton Rouge obviously wasn't. #Same question.


Suggested response: He had his head up his *ss!!!

[KQ6XA]

With the 500kHz marine band opening up, we should develop an international project to use it for disaster and emergency /relief communications.

This could become an excellent worldwide system for tsunami or hurricane warnings... and it is marine related.

Combining standard emergency frequencies with the currently little-used FM RDS broadcast data system or "S.A.M.E." weather alert systems on the broadcasts, would make it easily and cheaply compatible with existing car radios and some consumer portable radios.

Both the 520kHz channel and the 530kHz channel could be dedicated to emergency broadcasts during emergencies.

490 to 515kHz could be used for two-way communications between all the different government, non-government, and amateur radio services worldwide.

Also, 87.9MHZ FM could be utilized as part of a low power or mobile emergency/relief broadcast system.

The average person could then simply tune to the lower end of the dial for emergency broadcasts and information, whether this be on FM or AM radio.

--Bonnie KQ6XA










.

[K6UEY]

W6EM,
If I am not mistaken both GWB and Jimmy Carter pronounce "Nuclear" the same way.and what did he know about it,he only had a college Degree In Nuclear Engineering. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 14 2005,15:40)]W6EM,
If I am not mistaken both GWB and Jimmy Carter pronounce "Nuclear" the same way.and what did he know about it,he only had a college Degree In Nuclear Engineering. :p
South of the Mason-Dixon line English.

Yes, shades of CONELRAD.

Could it be? Gasp! Could it really be, "Gasp, choke!" that "back then" there was an idea that worked? Something that wasn't Internet, iPods, Walkmans and X-Box? My gosh!

Seems more like CONELRAD stood for CONTINENTAL ELECTRONIC RADIO ALERT AND DEFENSE -- Yeah, I don't remember either!! Ha.

Originally, in an emergency, local sirens would sound (as they do still for tornados and other disasters in those areas that are more accustomed to disasters, like Kansas) and you would tune your AM radio to either 640 or 1240 AM. Local, yes LOCAL, instructions would be given as to what you should do to protect yourself, and there would be details on the problem.

If the disaster was truly bad, all other stations were required to leave the air. Only the two AM frequencies could be used. Without station identification, so the 'enemy' would have a bit harder time locating which station was where.

All hams were also required to continuously monitor CONELRAD while on the air, and, if there was an alert, to immediately go off the air. (Do NOT grab your Collins S-Line and run to your local emergency center and tell 'em "Now I'm here, you're all saved." ) Of course that was to prevent enemy aviation from homing in on area radio signals.

Yes, BONNIE, I can see it now. 70,000 emergency radio signals all vying for space around 500 khz, including 10,000 hams who would "just like to help so wanted to get a signal report, and a QSL card from FEMA." No, I'm not kidding.

Putting hams on government emergency frequenices is an extremely bad idea unless we really want to disrupt communications. At any rate, in any given area, at that low frequency, perhaps five channels would be useful, with a thousand signals on each channel. Uh, on second thought, no channels would be useful. Like 60 meters. The volume of emergency traffic alone in the week following Katrina would have totally wiped out 60 meters and zero H&W traffic would have been passed.

However, the single-frequency alerting signal is a good idea. We already have it, of course, with NOAA and with EBS on the TV. But during the EBS test isn't that when everyone goes potty and then makes another sandwich?

A new version of CONELRAD would be exciting, if it could be made to work. We could "Big Brother" it, and make a computer the size of Michigan that would automatically dial every phone and cell phone in the nation instantly, as well as send an emergency email to every computer in North America.

Or we could ask that people be aware, "Hey, there's a hurricane coming. Stop watching COPS and pay attention to the weather reports." In other words, personal responsibility.

No, that means too much personal responsibility. People are not intended, were not created, to take care of themselves and be aware of what is around them. No, they gotta have someone further up the food chain, so if they forget to look out the window they can say "It's the White House's fault."

Ed

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 13 2005,18:40)]W6EM,
If I am not mistaken both GWB and Jimmy Carter pronounce "Nuclear" the same way.and what did he know about it,he only had a college Degree In Nuclear Engineering. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
You are mistaken, sir. I'm old enough to have heard former President Carter say it correctly many times. You probably just couldn't handle his accent.

He would have landed and so would have Clinton. And, rolled up their shirtsleeves and gotten things rolling, unlike our ex-cokehead.

Besides, Bush knew how to land at Maxwell AFB AL, as he got assigned there many years ago, didn't he?

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 14 2005,15:59)]Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 13 2005,18:40)]W6EM,
If I am not mistaken both GWB and Jimmy Carter pronounce "Nuclear" the same way.and what did he know about it,he only had a college Degree In Nuclear Engineering. :p
You are mistaken, sir. I'm old enough to have heard former President Carter say it correctly many times. You probably just couldn't handle his accent.

He would have landed and so would have Clinton. And, rolled up their shirtsleeves and gotten things rolling, unlike our ex-cokehead.

Besides, Bush knew how to land at Maxwell AFB AL, as he got assigned there many years ago, didn't he?
Or our ex pot head?


Yes, I think you're right. Bush was assigned, many years ago, to that air base. Seems that was about the time Clinton was in England promoting anti war demonstrations. Well, maybe not at the exact same time, but it was probably close

.

[K6UEY]

W6EM,
Well it is my understanding that Bush called the mayor of NO 3 days ahead of the storm and advised them to evacuate NO. What was he suppose to do roll up his sleeves and drive the bus for them. There it is again that 21st Century dirty word "Personal Responsibility",I noticed the mayor got out in time ,and there was no report of the Governor getting her shoes wet.

You Bush bashers just have your hey day,but where as the next president won't be Bush it will be a Republican,then we will check with you, to see if you are still laughing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[n2obm]

Quote[/b] (w4lgh @ Sep. 11 2005,16:21)]"But it seems par for the course in terms of how this whole thing has been rolling out with FEMA and the Red Cross trying to keep tight control and manage the news," Edwards complained. "It's really sad when these people
feel they have to sanitize all the time."
FEMA....maybe....the Red Cross???

How about....

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.

Located at:

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

It sounds as though that the Red Cross is rather...cross.

IMHO, I would be leary of a 'grassroots' station, in the fact that it might end up being a 'Jerry Springer rant outlet' instead of an information source.
Imagine the unrest and 'play on' the emotions of truly grieving people that are seeking rest and harbor in Houston.

And...don't throw stones at the Red Cross.
This institution has helped far more people, in the world, #than any other non-profit organization that I know of. I give what I can through monthly military allotment. Councilmember Edwards should think twice.

[kg4bcn]

One question, that keeps haunting me, is "why did AF-1 take off from Phoenix on Monday, August 29th in the afternoon and, instead of flying to and landing at Keesler AFB MS, it flew to San Diego. #Then, on Wednesday, August 31, it did a 'fly-by' at about 1000 feet and instead of landing at Keesler AFB, it went on to Andrews AFB, MD. #Why? #Anybody got any ideas?


Because the fishing is better at Andrews AFB.

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (n2obm @ Sep. 13 2005,19:52)]And...don't throw stones at the Red Cross.
This institution has helped far more people, in the world, #than any other non-profit organization that I know of. I give what I can through monthly military allotment. Councilmember Edwards should think twice.
The Red Cross does and did a fantastic job, as it always does. It is prepared because it plans ahead. It has assets ready to move. And, they did quickly.

Although they began fundraising outside the area very early, that was the right thing to do. In fact, I remember hearing their requests on Tuesday here in Florida.

At the same time, I was hearing about Bush continuing to fundraise (for his party) in San Diego.

On Wednesday, there were Red Cross assets already helping and Baptist Disaster Relief helping feed and house those displaced.

But, Bush did his part. A noble fly-by, weary from his fund-raising junket and cutting his well-deserved month-long vacation short by a day, his noble contribution to the cause, and returned to a comfortable, air-conditioned residence in DC.

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Sep. 13 2005,19:05)]Or our ex pot head?


Yes, I think you're right. #Bush was assigned, many years ago, to that air base. #Seems that was about the time Clinton was in England promoting anti war demonstrations. #Well, maybe not at the exact same time, but it was probably close

.
I guess Clinton smoked it. I know some folks with top secret clearances that did too. :-) And, admitted it in order to get their clearances. Bush has never openly denied that he used cocaine. He admitted to having abused some substances. If only alcohol, it would have been openly admitted.

As to Clinton being in England, with his long hair. Yes, he was there attending Oxford working on his Masters. I think he had one of those Rhodes scholarships.

According to his memoirs, he was told to report for induction, then travelled back to Arkansas, and signed up for ROTC, and was given a 1-D, military reserve Selective Service classification and his orders were to begin the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas instead of returning to Oxford.

Was that draft-dodging or anti-war behavior?

Failing to report, though, for National Guard duty at Maxwell AFB, AL and not taking a physical, as ordered to, to be able to perform the required flight duty sounded a bit more serious to me. Isn't that at least insubordination or even dereliction of duty?

Far afield, and I'm sorry. FEMA's competence, or lack thereof, started at the top. Not the head of FEMA, and not our Homeland Security Chief. His father's FEMA was an order of magnitude better than his. At least as it related to the SF Loma Prieta earthquake of 1989. Its all about leadership and competence.

Lee
W6EM

[k5co]

You really think that you can surmise the resons for the movement of Airforce One?? I think someone is a bit more than arrogant and simply one of the well programmed Bush haters. Some of us were educated; some of you were indoctrinated.

[k5co]

I have seen The red cross exploiting disasters; call them fund raisers. I sent my money to the Salvation Army.

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Sep. 13 2005,20:38)]You really think that you can surmise the resons for the movement of Airforce One?? I think someone is a bit more than arrogant and simply one of the well programmed Bush haters. Some of us were educated; some of you were indoctrinated.
Well, lets just say that I don't agree with some that his choices of how he spent August 29, 30 and 31 were facist or racist-based. No. Just stupidity, ineptness, and insensitivity. Like his grin when he talks about Iraq. How sad.

[K6UEY]

W6EM,
I'm sure you want to present the facts so let me correct you on a few minor things.

The big problem with Clinton while at Oxford was he was bad mouthing the US. I don't give a crap if he was a Rhodes Scholar,or a graduate of miss peevys 3rd grade,you don't go to a foriegn country then bad mouth your own, unless you do not intend to return.

On the Flight exam that GWB cancelled,it was not in Alabama,as they did not have a runway or any airplanes to fly.
He had been checked out in the F102 by Convair it was an all weather Fighter Interceptor used in Continental Defense.If there was no airplanes to fly it made good sense to not go all the way back to take a scheduled Flight physical,rather just cancell it.

I don't know how long you served in the US military,but it would seem not long enough to know how things are done.

Now you spoke of the the 89 earthquake and the tremendous response FEMA had. You must have read one of their internal promotiom memos.

I was on the ground during that time and at the critical P-wave intercept point 5 miles from the epicenter.
FEMA was a joke !! My neighbors and I boosted our spirits by joking about all the radio said that FEMA was going to do.

As a matter of fact,speaking of the radio,Dan Rather of See BS,put on a real good show,telling how San Francisco was leveled and on fire,he must have had very good eye sight,since he was across San Francisco Bay, reporting from the safe Oakland side,that little display was the last time I ever watched SEE BS news. He also reported the destruction in the San Jose area,I suffered a small crack in my drive way,and some chipped plaster above my back door. Real serious devastation. #Just some tid bits from some one who was actually there !!

# http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[n2obm]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Sep. 13 2005,18:40)]I have seen The red cross exploiting disasters; call them fund raisers. I sent my money to the Salvation Army.
PLEASE NOTE THAT I WAS IN ERROR AND HAVE EDITED THIS POST:
And yes, another great institution. BOTH, requiring funds to operate. The latest statistics I have, Combined Federal Campaign '05 booklet, shows that 2.9% of funds given to the SA are used for 'administrative costs and overhead fees' and 6.8% of funds for the RC.
I will admit I am biased because of long term relationship of the RC and the Army. They have helped many, well-deserving soldiers get home in times of trouble and ill fate.
Thank you Bill for tactfully pointing out my error!

[K6UEY]

Yes the RED CROSS has done a lot for our troops over seas. They kept our troops from starving by selling them doughnuts and cigarettes during WWII. Of course these were free donations from companies in the states,but I guess you have to make operating expenses. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[n2obm]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 13 2005,19:28)]Now you spoke of the the 89 earthquake and the tremendous response FEMA had. You must have read one of their internal promotiom memos.

I was on the ground during that time and at the critical P-wave intercept point 5 miles from the epicenter.
FEMA was a joke !! My neighbors and I boosted our spirits by joking about all the radio said that FEMA was going to do.

As a matter of fact,speaking of the radio,Dan Rather of See BS,put on a real good show,telling how San Francisco was leveled and on fire,he must have had very good eye sight,since he was across San Francisco Bay, reporting from the safe Oakland side,that little display was the last time I ever watched SEE BS news. He also reported the destruction in the San Jose area,I suffered a small crack in my drive way,and some chipped plaster above my back door. Real serious devastation. #Just some tid bits from some one who was actually there !!

# http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
I was at Fort Ord for that one (127Sig, 7th ID).....FEMA did use the base for about a week. Since I was lower enlisted (real low at that time) I was not privy to all of the workings.
I was 'detailed' as a driver....my OD Chevy Blazer (OK, my LT's) saw some miles. I didn't know how to address the 'suits' They did laugh the first time I met them....I rendered a salute.

[n2obm]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 13 2005,19:38)]Yes the RED CROSS has done a lot for our troops over seas. They kept our troops from starving by selling them doughnuts and cigarettes during WWII. Of course these were free donations from companies in the states,but I guess you have to make operating expenses. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
OK, before my time....
BTW, the RC could NOT sell them now....AAFES (Army-Air Force Exchange Service, aka servicemembers Walmart) would have a fit! No competition by mandate...the General said so....

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 13 2005,21:28)]W6EM,
I'm sure you want to present the facts so let me correct you on a few minor things.

The big problem with Clinton while at Oxford was he was bad mouthing the US. I don't give a crap if he was a Rhodes Scholar,or a graduate of miss peevys 3rd grade,you don't go to a foriegn country then bad mouth your own, unless you do not intend to return.

On the Flight exam that GWB cancelled,it was not in Alabama,as they did not have a runway or any airplanes to fly.
He had been checked out in the F102 by Convair it was an all weather Fighter Interceptor used in Continental Defense.If there was no airplanes to fly it made good sense to not go all the way back to take a scheduled Flight physical,rather just cancell it.

I don't know how long you served in the US military,but it would seem not long enough to know how things are done.

Now you spoke of the the 89 earthquake and the tremendous response FEMA had. You must have read one of their internal promotiom memos.

I was on the ground during that time and at the critical P-wave intercept point 5 miles from the epicenter.
FEMA was a joke !! My neighbors and I boosted our spirits by joking about all the radio said that FEMA was going to do.

As a matter of fact,speaking of the radio,Dan Rather of See BS,put on a real good show,telling how San Francisco was leveled and on fire,he must have had very good eye sight,since he was across San Francisco Bay, reporting from the safe Oakland side,that little display was the last time I ever watched SEE BS news. He also reported the destruction in the San Jose area,I suffered a small crack in my drive way,and some chipped plaster above my back door. Real serious devastation. #Just some tid bits from some one who was actually there !!

# http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
I'll just say this. With the inaccuracy of your knowledge of FEMA's achievements in 1989, your other supposed infow-mation really sounds remarkably correct.

I too lived in the Bay Area and worked in San Jose, and managed about one fifth of Pacific Gas and Electric's system. My territory and my assets, under my responsiblity, were trashed. If you remember the pictures of Metcalf substation and Moss Landing power plant's switchyards, with broken porcelain everywhere, then, you might be a little bit more cognizant of what really happened and be able to understand some of what FEMA was able to do.

We needed 6 500,000 volt circuit breakers to replace those that had been totally destroyed. And, we needed them fast. The only reason clowns like you had electric service were that large organizations like IBM and Intel shut down as did most of Silicon Valley. We had two 230kV lines heavily overloaded from the East Bay supplying all of San Jose. All generation was lost at Moss Landing and we had no EHV 500kV sources from the Intertie in the San Joaquin Valley. I kept Morgan Hill and Gilroy in service thanks to a single 115kV garlic-driven cogenerator at Gilroy Foods.

FEMA ordered two C-5As for us and flew those 6 EHV circuit breakers from Georgia to Moffett Field in Sunnyvale. We had them in a couple of days following the earthquake.

Bush's father's FEMA was doing strategic things in a big way. You were apparently too busy watching (and carping) network reporters you hated to observe what was really going on.

FEMA has, at its disposal, just about any DOD assets it needs. Once an emergency is declared. One was declared on I believe it was, on Saturday, August 27, by Dubyah.

FEMA proudly said it had hundreds of thousands of MRE's and a similar quantity of water on the ground in Selma, AL ready to go. And, it sat there. And, it sat there. And, it sat there.

Speaking of sitting, Ft. Rucker, AL, home of Army Aviation sits about 60 air-miles from Selma. I would guess at least 50 to 100 helicopters from 4 place Bells, to Apaches to Blackhawks. Nothing moved. No air drops to the thirsty and starving in NO. Nothing until when? Saturday?

Ah, but day before yesterday, I heard about Pensacola. Home of the Navy's helicopter training. Something did move. Two aircraft were ordered to fly water and supplies to NASA-Stennis, MS on Tuesday or maybe early Wednesday, 8/31. When they dropped off the supplies and became airborne, they heard an urgent distress call from a CG helicopter in NO, asking for any assistance in rescue. They flew in and helped rescue people from rooftops. When they returned back to Pensacola, both were reprimanded and reassigned. One to head up a dog kennel.

Now, that's his father's FEMA, and this is his FEMA. And, his Rum-filled DOD.

Incredible.

Lee
W6EM

[k6faf]

I just worry, what ails most of you out there!

What does all this have to do with FEMA not wanting "to be controlled by a privately run radio station"?

My guess is as good as anybody else's: "They do not want their scratched image hurt any further"

And to our No 1 VIP: Oh well, he must have needed time to think before landing anywhere dangerous...for the politics....

73 to all you out there with a critical mind, it keeps me going, too.

k6faf, Hans, the voice from the desert http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kb5zcs]

This is waht we get when you have a BUSH in the whitehouse,and if the Right wingers keep running the show it's only going to get worse.

[wa2rcb]

"FEMA":

Fubar's Everything Most Always

Flying Eggheads Minus Attentiveness

Facilitates Equines Mostly Arabians

Financially Enigmatic Motley A--kissers

Floorflushing Empty Minded A--kissers

Finds Entropy Most Appealing

Funny Experts Mulling Aristocracy

Floods Enter My Abode

...enough for now (?) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[wa2rcb]

I did forget to post a link to a story by Dr Walter M. Brasch, a former Emergency Management Official at FEMA and Journalist.

This article is an in-depth look at the Administration policies that created the atmosphere, not only for an ineffective FEMA response during the Katrina catastrophe, but which may have contributed to additional property destruction and deaths than should have occurred.

The full article is at the URL below. I highly reccomend anyone involved in Emergency Management read it thru.

SPECIAL REPORT: - Unacceptable - : The federal response to Katrina (http://www.smirkingchimp.com/brash-katrina-investigation.html)

[kc7flr]

Quote[/b] (AC7RG @ Sep. 14 2005,15:54)]Knowledge is Power (http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm)

...and depressing
Yes, it is depressing to see the left-wing nonsense quoted and linked to as if it was gospel truth.

The original comment that was quoted to begin this thread is from a left-wing blog "World War 4 Report" and your link is from another left-wing moonbat who thinks that Bush is a fascist.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 14 2005,21:38)]Yes the RED CROSS has done a lot for our troops over seas. They kept our troops from starving by selling them doughnuts and cigarettes during WWII. Of course these were free donations from companies in the states,but I guess you have to make operating expenses. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
When we had a couple of building blow up here the response by the local authorities was fast and massive. The Red Cross came and SOLD coffee and doughnuts to the Police, Firemen and EMTs. They set up shop right on the street. While the block was evacuated, not a single evacuee was helped with either food or shelter on a cold night.

The local Catholic Church was just as useless.

<span style='color:darkred'>The Salvation Army, OTOH, opened it's doors even though it had been closed for a holiday. It gave us blankets, food and a place to stay until we were allowed to return to our houses.</span>

[KG4ZQZ]

- i don't mind folks posting slanted articles with retarded world views (consider the source), but was surprised to see one on the QRZ home page...

- is this QRZ's opinion, too?

[n5uoa]

One of the Problems I know personally, was the people in the State EOC, in Baton ROuge, that Stone walled Emergency PEople from Hams to Fire,and Rescue people.I had hams ready to go Monday following the Hurricane who are energency people and had boats, radios,generators,and support equipment. The State Eoc in Baton Rouge refused to let people in even when called on the radio and telephone. They said no one can go on and they dont need help. This whole Disaster has been a CLUSTER F*** from the start. I had hams that had portable radios too that could not have started local Communications in the areas but the emergency people I had lined up were Also Hams. Then there wa sa call for General Class Ops only and above to go in to the affected areas.
THIS IS WRONG AS TO CLASS OF LICENSE, but you need all the hams you can get no matter what license they have . This is a LONG ONGOING THINGS, areas completly gone off the maps HF Comms being interferred with by Solar Flars, too. Techs who are emergency people could not only do their expertise in the filed from giving EM people some break time to helping to them setting up local communications. HF is good if you want to talk world wide but also the Techs have radios too that can get things done locally from riding in em behicles and all emergency services being abel to talk to one another. Nase stations with antennas work over 100 miles on VJF and UHF and Sideband too. I was able to hit repeators crossing the south from a Greyhound Bus on a trip back from New York,to Houston, even though local repeators were knowcked out was still able to work outside the area.

LETS USE ALL HAMS THAT HAVE THE EXPERTISE and Knowledge to help, This is a massive disaster, and have 30 yrs EM Experience from Firefighting to working mass disasters and hurricanes since 1968. They need all the help they can get down there. All Hams are hams able to do things together.
Mark[B]

[nc5s]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 14 2005,18:38)]Yes the RED CROSS has done a lot for our troops over seas. They kept our troops from starving by selling them doughnuts and cigarettes during WWII. Of course these were free donations from companies in the states,but I guess you have to make operating expenses. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
In 1999, as Floyd approached the SE coast of the US. #I was busy manning the local Emergency Management Center for my county.

During that time, the Salvation Army was right there with us, serving meals to those who were staying and manning the emergency management center. #They were also busy assisting with the evacuation of the elderly and infirm.

Where was the Red Cross during this? #They, all of them, had hauled ass out of town, out of harms way and were manning shelters 100 or more miles away. They, The RC, returned after the "all clear" was sounded.

With my previous experience in the military with the Red Cross and my more recent experience with both the Red Cross and Salvation Army, #My $500 donation went exclusively to the Salvation Army.

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Sep. 14 2005,14:58)]At one time, there were two assigned CONELRAD (sp?) frequencies specified on the AM dial. #One toward the low end, 640, one toward the high end, 1240. #In addition, local AM stations could be fed the same information. The current EBS superceded CONELRAD years ago, and not nearly as useful as what it replaced, because of a lack of frequency standard.

"Had this been an actual emergency, you would have been instructed to tune to 640 or 1240 on your radio dial for further instructions and information."
Steve,

The 640 and 1240 frequencies weren't designated for standarization to the public. These frequencies were chosen so during an air raid, planes couldn't use specific broadcast station frequencies to locate targets.

Mike - K1MH

[n8kg]

For all the news media, tv stations, radio stations, magazines and newspapers in the country, we are the least informed of all nations.

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 14 2005,15:40)]W6EM,
If I am not mistaken both GWB and Jimmy Carter pronounce "Nuclear" the same way.and what did he know about it,he only had a college Degree In Nuclear Engineering. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Jimmy Carter has a PhD believe it or not. You would never know it the way he ran the country.

Mike-K1MH

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 14 2005,07:56)]Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Sep. 14 2005,14:58)]At one time, there were two assigned CONELRAD (sp?) frequencies specified on the AM dial. #One toward the low end, 640, one toward the high end, 1240. #In addition, local AM stations could be fed the same information. The current EBS superceded CONELRAD years ago, and not nearly as useful as what it replaced, because of a lack of frequency standard.

"Had this been an actual emergency, you would have been instructed to tune to 640 or 1240 on your radio dial for further instructions and information."
Steve,

The 640 and 1240 frequencies weren't designated for standarization to the public. These frequencies were chosen so during an air raid, planes couldn't use specific broadcast station frequencies to locate targets.

Mike - K1MH
Do you think the Soviets didn't know about 640 and 1240 from the likes of their embassy spy networks? #Think again.

The reason it was called CONELRAD, or short for Controlled Electromagnetic Radiation, was that in addition to requiring all broadcasters to shut down, the output power was to be intentionally varied at each of them, i.e. QSB'ed.

The Soviet pilots in their bombers probably had instructions to tune their DF receivers to one or both of those channels. #However, varying the power would have made getting a 'fix' on the source(s) very difficult.

What is needed today is a widely desiminated FM broadcast frequency that anyone with an FM receiver can tune to. #Disaster agencies could be given easily set up low power FM stations in disaster areas or along routes. #Possibly even solar powered. #That would give FEMA something constructive to manufacture and deliver, since they apparently can't handle food and water effectively.

Two 58 inch dipoles as a turnstile antenna is pretty straightforward and efficient.

Of course, if they are told to suppress information, well, we know what we'd hear. #Zip.

Lee
W6EM

[nc5s]

A brief history of CONELRAD



During the 1950's and 1960's, when the Cold War was just sinking in for most American citizens as well as for the government as a whole, there was an effort to establish a warning system to allow the American people time to leave their homes and enter the a fallout shelter, and at the same time, to protect America's cities from Russian bombers. To accomplish both of these goals at the same time, the FCC developed the CONELRAD system. CONELRAD stands for CONtrol of ELectronic RADation, and is a system that is designed both to confuse radio direction-finding technology used by the Soviet Union as well as to disseminate information to the American people. In the event of a nuclear attack, all the radio stations in the country would broadcast an alert, and then do one of two things: go off the air until the emergency was over or move to one of two official frequencies, 640 kHz or 1240 kHz. It was hoped that, with all the radio stations broadcasting essentially the same thing, at the same time, on the same two frequencies, that direction finding equipment would be useless, making it much harder for the Russian bombers to find specific cities and landmarks. For this purpose, all new radios sold after 1953 had to be marked with triangles at 640 and 1240, to make finding these frequencies easier. In addition, citizens with the capability to transmit on common radio frequencies, such as amateur radio operators and municipalities with radio systems, had to fall silent in the event of a CONELRAD alert. Devices such as the Heathkit CA-1 CONELRAD alarm were developed to prevent accidential transmission during an emergency. With the development of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, however, CONELRAD became impractical due to the decrease in response time from heavy bombers to ICBMs. Following the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1961, the emergency communications capability of the United States was examined, resulting in the scrapping of CONELRAD and the adoption of the Emergency Broadcast System. Designed with local use in mind in the case of disasters, the Emergency Broadcast System was still hoped to be useful in the event of a nuclear emergency. The familiar two-tone alert was developed for the Emergency Broadcast System, as well as the monthly tests to ensure that the system works properly. The Emergency Broadcast System was used extensively for local emergencies, such as brush fires and hurricanes, and while it was never needed to warn of a nuclear attack, it did fulfill its purpose to warn the American people of natural disasters. In 1997, the Emergency Alert System updated the Emergency Broadcast System. The purpose of this upgrade was not to drastically change the methods used to warn the American people, but to update that system. The digital Emergency Alert System is much less work intensive, with most radio stations having an automatic interface that puts the station on alert without the necessity of any human touching anything except the first button in Washington, DC. With the Emergency Alert System in place, widespread Emergency Bulletins can now be broadcast to the vast majority of Americans.

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Sep. 14 2005,15:39)]



With the 500kHz marine band opening up, we should develop an international project to use it for disaster and emergency /relief communications.

This could become an excellent worldwide system for tsunami or hurricane warnings... and it is marine related.

Combining standard emergency frequencies with the currently little-used FM RDS broadcast data system or "S.A.M.E." weather alert systems on the broadcasts, would make it easily and cheaply compatible with existing car radios and some consumer portable radios.

Both the 520kHz channel and the 530kHz channel could be dedicated to emergency broadcasts during emergencies.

490 to 515kHz could be used for two-way communications between all the different government, non-government, and amateur radio services worldwide.

Also, 87.9MHZ FM could be utilized as part of a low power or mobile emergency/relief broadcast system.

The average person could then simply tune to the lower end of the dial for emergency broadcasts and information, whether this be on FM or AM radio.

--Bonnie KQ6XA










.
Bonnie,

I am looking forward to the 500 Khz band opening up to the ham community.

The 87.9 frequency is already assigned to certain Educational FM stations where there are no Channel 6 TV stations in the area.

Mike - K1MH

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]But, Bush did his part. A noble fly-by, weary from his fund-raising junket and cutting his well-deserved month-long vacation short by a day, his noble contribution to the cause, and returned to a comfortable, air-conditioned residence in DC.


I am not, have never been and do not intend to be a George W. Bush, Jr. (or Sr.) supporter. However, placing any of the blame of the situation on Katrina on him or at his feet.

Please consider the following copied from www.snopes.com:

Get Off His Back (Updated)
By Ben Stein
Published 9/2/2005 11:59:59 PM
***UPDATED: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.***

A few truths, for those who have ears and eyes and care to know the truth:

1.) The hurricane that hit New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama was an astonishing tragedy. The suffering and loss of life and peace of mind of the residents of those areas is acutely horrifying.

2.) George Bush did not cause the hurricane. Hurricanes have been happening for eons. George Bush did not create them or unleash this one.

3.) George Bush did not make this one worse than others. There have been far worse hurricanes than this before George Bush was born.

4.) There is no overwhelming evidence that global warming exists as a man-made phenomenon. There is no clear-cut evidence that global warming even exists. There is no clear evidence that if it does exist it makes hurricanes more powerful or makes them aim at cities with large numbers of poor people. If global warming is a real phenomenon, which it may well be, it started long before George Bush was inaugurated, and would not have been affected at all by the Kyoto treaty, considering that Kyoto does not cover the world's worst polluters -- China, India, and Brazil. In a word, George Bush had zero to do with causing this hurricane. To speculate otherwise is belief in sorcery.

5.) George Bush had nothing to do with the hurricane contingency plans for New Orleans. Those are drawn up by New Orleans and Louisiana. In any event, the plans were perfectly good: mandatory evacuation. It is in no way at all George Bush's fault that about 20 percent of New Orleans neglected to follow the plan. It is not his fault that many persons in New Orleans were too confused to realize how dangerous the hurricane would be. They were certainly warned. It's not George Bush's fault that there were sick people and old people and people without cars in New Orleans. His job description does not include making sure every adult in America has a car, is in good health, has good sense, and is mobile.

6.) George Bush did not cause gangsters to shoot at rescue helicopters taking people from rooftops, did not make gang bangers rape young girls in the Superdome, did not make looters steal hundreds of weapons, in short make New Orleans into a living hell.

7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.

8.) George Bush is rushing every bit of help he can to New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama as soon as he can. He is not a magician. It takes time to organize huge convoys of food and now they are starting to arrive. That they get in at all considering the lawlessness of the city is a miracle of bravery and organization.

9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.

10.) If the energy the news media puts into blaming Bush for an Act of God worsened by stupendous incompetence by the New Orleans city authorities and the malevolence of the criminals of the city were directed to helping the morale of the nation, we would all be a lot better off.

11.) New Orleans is a great city with many great people. It will recover and be greater than ever. Sticking pins into an effigy of George Bush that does not resemble him in the slightest will not speed the process by one day.

12.) The entire episode is a dramatic lesson in the breathtaking callousness of government officials at the ground level. Imagine if Hillary Clinton had gotten her way and they were in charge of your health care.

God bless all of those dear people who are suffering so much, and God bless those helping them, starting with George Bush.

****
UPDATE: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.:

More Mysteries of Katrina:

Why is it that the snipers who shot at emergency rescuers trying to save people in hospitals and shelters are never mentioned except in passing, and Mr. Bush, who is turning over heaven and earth to rescue the victims of the storm, is endlessly vilified?

What church does Rev. Al Sharpton belong to that believes in passing blame and singling out people by race for opprobrium and hate?

What special abilities does the media have for deciding how much blame goes to the federal government as opposed to the city government of New Orleans for the aftereffects of Katrina?

If able-bodied people refuse to obey a mandatory evacuation order for a city, have they not assumed the risk that ill effects will happen to them?

When the city government simply ignores its own sick and hospitalized and elderly people in its evacuation order, is Mr. Bush to blame for that?

Is there any problem in the world that is not Mr. Bush's fault, or have we reverted to a belief in a sort of witchcraft where we credit a mortal man with the ability to create terrifying storms and every other kind of ill wind?

Where did the idea come from that salvation comes from hatred and criticism and mockery instead of love and co-operation?



Chuck, AA1MN

[AI8O]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Sep. 14 2005,15:22)]It would be a good idea to have a standard frequency, perhaps at 550 AM or some such, for use in all cities during times of disaster. Everyone has a small radio; what a waste not to use this idea.
Why not reactivate the old CONELRAD CONCEPT.
Just set aside two AM frequencies and mark them EMERGENCY on radio dials.
Allow current regular broadcasters to use these channels in normal non emergency times, but fire up on the frequencies when an emergency hits.

Have several mobile sets of transmiter/power generator units scattered around the county in safe secure storage, ready to be brought out in an emergency.

The DOD had two or three units like this all checked out ready to go in the 1970's. and has a PSY WAR aircraft that was used in Bosnia in the 1990's.

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (AI8O @ Sep. 15 2005,06:15)]Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Sep. 14 2005,15:22)]It would be a good idea to have a standard frequency, perhaps at 550 AM or some such, for use in all cities during times of disaster. Everyone has a small radio; what a waste not to use this idea.
Why not reactivate the old CONELRAD CONCEPT.
Just set aside two AM frequencies and mark them EMERGENCY on radio dials.
Allow current regular broadcasters to use #these channels in normal non emergency times, but fire up on the frequencies when an emergency hits.
If this were in place in NOLA, it wouldn't have done a bit of good. No one had radios with them and if they did they didn't have access to AC or replacement batteries.

One of the NOLA AMs remained on the air throughout the storm up, during the aftermath, and are still on the air.

Very few of the victims could hear it. The entire situation was a mess.

Makes me wonder what would happen if there were a large scale terrorist attack.

Mike - K1MH

[k5co]

I quote: " If this were in place in NOLA, it wouldn't have done a bit of good. No one had radios with them and if they did they didn't have access to AC or replacement batteries."

Now there is a negative viewpoint. IF there were common frequency and people knew there was disaster news there, they WOULD have radios. As for batteries, my little Walkman runs for days on two AA batts, and a couple of spares would still be running it since the beginning of Katrina.

In addition to a format for such a station, we need hams reporting from neighborhoods with conditions and their needs. Yes, it would take some planning. Perhaps we should set it up OUTSIDE the government. The appointees from both sides of the isle will continue to disappoint!

[w6em]

Its easy to Monday morning quarterback. Ben Stein's a bit better having fun with his "money" and trivia. Here's a few of what Ben didn't say:

I didn't read anything about how many of those left and "chose" not to leave had any means besides their two feet to get out.

I didn't read anything about how very poor folks even were able to hear the order to 'get out.'

I didn't read anything about a FEMA head who said he hadn't heard any specifics, as quoted in the media, on I think it was Wednesday, August 30.

I didn't read anything about why Bush chose to continue with his fundraiser in Phoenix on Monday afternoon, after the storm had hit.

I didn't read anything about why Bush decided to fly on Tuesday morning to his next scheduled Republican fundraiser in San Diego.

I didn't read anything about why Bush only did his 'fly-by' on Wednesday morning (instead of landing at an operable AFB in the vicinity, such as Maxell AFB in Montgomery even if he didn't have the guts to land at Baton Rouge)

I didn't read anything about why two very brave and courageous Navy helicopter pilots were reprimanded and reassigned from answering a distress call to save people in New Orleans.

I didn't read anything said about why all of the FEMA-staged MREs and Water were left sitting in Selma AL instead of airlifted to hospitals or to outside the superdome for distribution to the starving and thirsty in the first 3 or 4 days.

Now, I'm sure there must be more. AF-1 has every means of communication and gear imaginable to direct all types of federal assets. Even a nice warm bed and plenty of provisions. Hell, if he was worried about not having bullet-proof limos or Suburbans, he could have had a C-17 routed to Maxwell with a load of those, too.
And, Maxwell's only about an 8 hour flight for Marine 1 from Andrews.

Pity.

Lee
W6EM

[KD6NIG]

Amazing.

I don't mind watching all of this though. You guys are sitting here, pointing fingers, screaming, yelling, etc about all of this, and you're MISSING THE POINT.

In plain english: If you want to survive a disaster, you best PREPARE YOURSELF and not worry about what the govmint is going to do for you.

It doesn't matter who is in charge. Bush, Clinton, or any of you who have posted here. The bottom, and obvious line is, you better prepare YOURSELF for a disaster and not rely on the government to come and help you. It is obvious that with this, just like everything else in government, that if you want and expect something to be done, its going to take time, red tape, etc, for it to all occur. You are all on here acting surprised, appalled, etc about this. But really folks, is this REALLY a surprise? What you're seeing here is what happens every day around here folks-If the govt wants to get something done, it doesn't happen like it happens in our lives, there is research, studies, etc before a project even ever gets going. I'm honestly surprised that they got stuff going as quick as they do, since normally it takes really long to get something done.

What you're seeing here, unfortunately, is government efficency. This efficency has existed for years, and it doesn't matter what leader we have up there in the 'white house' doing things, govt is going to do what they are going to do.

By the way, you better prepare yourself. A good disaster plan should include sufficent food supplies for 14 days, and the ability to take said supplies with you, because if your house is gone, then you'll need them mobile. 14 days should suffice, the red tape should be cut by then and then you'll have the help you need.

By the way, speaking of being prepared, I hear social security is going away too-so people best prepare for that disaster when it comes also. Katrina was a natural disaster, but others are coming now, some are the result of it directly, some are already on the way and were way before this happened.

The bottom line is though, if people expect and think thier local/state/federal govts are just going to step in and take care of you....that way of thinking SHOULD be changed now that we have seen this. The only help you are going to get is whatever help you can provide yourself, and whatever help you can get from, or give to, your local neighbors in thier time of need. I would view the government's response as a backup plan, but in the beginning, you're going to be on your own. If this disaster hasn't woken you up and told you that, then perhaps you should really open your eyes.

Now you all can carry on and blame Bush, FEMA, the state, the county, the city, or the people in it, but I hope in between your rants you realise that maybe you should prepare yourself in case this happens to you. A example has been set here, so you best look at the example that was presented to you, and realise that if you want help in a disaster, you're probably going to have to help yourself for quite a while until 'help arrives'.

So, carry on, but I hope the lesson of you needing to PREPARE YOURSELF, which to me is the glaring thing that this disaster should be telling everyone, has been learned by everyone.

You may now carry on with your blaming program.

[k7ov]

Quote[/b] (n2obm @ Sep. 14 2005,16:52)]Quote[/b] (w4lgh @ Sep. 11 2005,16:21)]"But it seems par for the course in terms of how this whole thing has been rolling out with FEMA and the Red Cross trying to keep tight control and manage the news," Edwards complained. "It's really sad when these people
feel they have to sanitize all the time."
FEMA....maybe....the Red Cross???

How about....

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.

Located at:

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

It sounds as though that the Red Cross is rather...cross.

IMHO, I would be leary of a 'grassroots' station, in the fact that it might end up being a 'Jerry Springer rant outlet' instead of an information source.
Imagine the unrest and 'play on' the emotions of truly grieving people that are seeking rest and harbor in Houston.

And...don't throw stones at the Red Cross.
This institution has helped far more people, in the world, than any other non-profit organization that I know of. I give what I can through monthly military allotment. Councilmember Edwards should think twice.
Hi,

Since you are so obviously "in the know" I have a few questions for you.

1. How much money does the Chairman of American Red Cross make a year?

2. I understand that this disaster would make the ratio look better, but on average, how much of each dollar donated to Red Cross actually reaches the victims?

3. Why did American Red Cross turn away Church leaders who wanted to look for victims who were reportedly at shelters so that they could moved to better accommodations with fellow church members? Is it because ARC receives money from the Federal Government based on how many people they house and provide for?

Now I will provide you with something I experienced myself with this organization. While I understand that ARC does a lot of good around the world, and probably will continue to do so, and I understand that no organization is all bad or all good, yet there are enough problems with this one that disturb me when you consider that this is a "Non Profit" organization.

I was a part of a large search and rescue mission in the Phoenix Arizona area many years ago that lasted the better part of a week. We were looking of a young child who was lost in the desert North of Phoenix. We found the boy alive and as we were winding down and securing the operation, in rolled ARC. They passed out stale sandwiches and luke warm coffee, took pictures and left. The next day, the Arizona Republic headlines stated “Red Cross Saves The Day Again!” when they didn’t have any part of this exercise.

That is the reason I have a basic distrust of that organization. Like many organization in existence today, I am convinced they started out with the best of intentions but like most large operations or organizations that I know of, corruption has taken over. By corruption, I am referring to actions that inhibit other organizations to help out such as question #3 above or wages to organization higher ups.

I understand your loyalty to this organization, and I am not suggesting that we should not support their relief efforts; I am just suggesting that we understand who they really are in the current time frame and choose the level of support we choose to give them. It would be counter productive and unkind to hurt those people in need that ARC does support. In other words, “Don’t throw the Baby out with the bath water!”. Just know them for who and what they are and respond accordingly.

73,
Mike - K7OV

[WB9UDJ]

FEMA The dumping ground for inept political appointees....:(

[n8kg]

We have all become dependent on someone or something to take care of us. We forget how to prepare for anything at all. And that is the way gov't wants it. I am amazed at the folks who stayed because they didn't have a car to leave in. Have they also forgotten how to walk? If they can't walk, was there not someone willing to push their wheelchair?

Blame everyone you want but if I was told 36 hours ahead of time that a hurricane was coming to blow my house away, don't stay here, and I lived in a bowl like New Orleans, you best better believe, I would walk or crawl to get out of there.

Nobody wants to take responsiblity for themselves anymore. Let the insurance company take care of it. Let the government take care of it. Anybody but me.

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 14 2005,15:16)]One question, that keeps haunting me, is "why did AF-1 take off from Phoenix on Monday, August 29th in the afternoon and, instead of flying to and landing at Keesler AFB MS, it flew to San Diego. #Then, on Wednesday, August 31, it did a 'fly-by' at about 1000 feet and instead of landing at Keesler AFB, it went on to Andrews AFB, MD. #Why? #Anybody got any ideas?
Keesler AFB was 90% destroyed and not operational. Aircraft and most personnel had been evacuated ahead of the storm. As of 12 Sept the base is only partially operational and most personnel that were evacuated have not yet been recalled. Only those personnel with safe to occupy residences in the immediate area are being requested to report.

Mike WA3KYY

[kc7run]

This is one of the biggest crocks of crap I’ve seen in a week regarding the situation in the Southeast. You know what really irks me about this situation? It’s the fact that so many hams could be acting as independent operators and go do the job anyway. Why is it that hams seem to think that we can only act in a time of need under the American Red Cross’s letter recognition? Which, I might add, is not acknowledged anymore than Sean Penn’s efforts to relieve suffering in New Orleans with his singular boat.

Who in the heck said that we couldn’t just waltz into the area and do the jobs the FCC/Federal Government licensed us to do in the first place? Of course there are channels to follow, but it is possible. And once you’re there why cant we set up a health and welfare network that reports back to SATERN’s net, or simply send a message to a loved one in another state letting them know of their family members condition, circumstance and health? Because the U.S. Government does not have your interest as a individual at heart in the first place. Its concept of rule is to govern the holistic dollar and not your rights. And when your rights become a problem in the governing of the all mighty holistic dollar, they simply pay a lobbyist to present a argument to remove your rights so their problem goes away and is forgotten by the masses.

I wonder how many people who lived through the trauma and horror of Hurricane Katrina will remember their loved ones dying in their arms and think how proud they are of their own government? How many people will remember those who are at fault in this disaster of humanity and say a simple prayer for them as they bundle up on their makeshift cot in the Astrodome with their child in their arms? How many people have lost a loved one as well as their faith and compassion for the U.S. federal government, and will not be so apathetic to buy into the propaganda delivered to the mainstream media? And more importantly, how many people will be willing to change what they see happening inside their government after this crisis abates? My point is that a large number of citizens inside the U.S. have a reason to be 100% pissed off at their own government.

By setting up communications inside the Astrodome, or anywhere else, the victims of nature and leadership of local, state and federal government are awakened to the facts if not the truth. Leadership looses control of the propaganda being forced down the throats of the community. To allow the media to tell the uncensored facts/truth about what is happening, who is taking the blame, who has resigned or been fired and what is happening or not happening inside the area is to provoke a revolution of the mind, heart and spirit. To remind them via radio, television or print that they were forgotten is to spark revolution in waiting.

The victims of this natural and manmade catastrophe have nothing but time on their hands. They are able to wait, recover and eventually strike at the heart of government with a unified voice of revolution. The leaders have been warned of this circumstance and have been advised that time is the only thing that heals wounds this deep. So the more time that they spend distracting the victims of this horrific manmade and natural calamity, the more time they buy themselves to prepare for the consequences of their lack of action.

The victims and survivors of Hurricane Katrina and the U.S. government can expect a deliberate slow recovery. Food, water, clothing, health, shelter, amenities like televisions sets, radios, beds etc… will come in a manner of time dictated by the leadership in order to secure homeland security from revolt from the victims of itself. So you see, your radio station is not at the top of its priority list. Leadership does not want the facts to be known by the masses because the holistic dollar is the venue and godhead and not the individual.


KC7RUN
Norman, OK
http://www.overnightam.com

[n0xmz]

Ditto KC7RUN. Why not just set up an already-licensed ham rig? Isn't that what we're here for? Who needs endorsement from anyone? Maybe I should try from our convention center here in Dallas.... hmmm....

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (KD5PSH @ Sep. 15 2005,06:33)]I quote: " If this were in place in NOLA, it wouldn't have done a bit of good. No one had radios with them and if they did they didn't have access to AC or replacement batteries."

Now there is a negative viewpoint. IF there were common frequency and people knew there was disaster news there, they WOULD #have radios. As for batteries, my little Walkman runs for days on two AA batts, and a couple of spares would still be running it since the beginning of Katrina.

In addition to a format for such a station, we need hams reporting from neighborhoods with conditions and their needs. Yes, it would take some planning. Perhaps we should set it up OUTSIDE the government. The appointees from both sides of the isle will continue to disappoint!
Let's just deal with facts here. There was an AM station broadcasting throughout the storm ad after the storm. There aren't any positive or negative connotations when reality is involved. It is what it is and that's all that it is.

People did not have radios with them so they couldn't have received the information that was already out there for the taking. They didn't have water, food, medicine, or any of the other necessities either including AC and batteries.

A single frequency would not have made a difference to any of them. Radios are designed with tuners and you tune to a station in your area. That is how EBS worked and EAS works. They tell you to tune to the station serving your area for further details.

I carry a small Walkman and back up batteries whenever I go into Manhattan since 9/11. It only uses one AA cell and it lasts for days. It came in very handy during the power failure a few summers ago.

Mike - K1MH

[n9lya]

A lot of people screwed up.. A lot did good...

Lets take notes and apply what we learned so we can all improve our responce next time... That Gov't, FEMA, RED Cross, Everyone....

Anything negative will only prove futile..

Lets get Positive... lets keep this from happening next time...

73 jerry N9LYA

[KB2SEO]

All right guys, let's lay off the big Bad government stuff for a moment and look at the statement that this LP station suddenly went from a informational entity to the PRESS. they thought that they had some kind of Authority to demand access to the dome!

think about this-

What would happen if there was a "special Needs" area (as we would call it in the Prison I worked in)- do YOU want to find it? suddenly we go from emergency shelter to the "NIMBY" Attitude- If the situation is contained, Why talk about it.

A free press is important, But in a Crisis situation, the last thing you need is some Idiot with no sense of security messing around like that. I would BET that if they simply stuck to a broadcast of information and we are missing what's her name, they would BE on the air.

I have worked in various emergency management situations over the years, From the guy with the badge to the guy with the HT. Trust me, they do not need a bunch of Geraldo wanna bes running around there!

73! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KB4OID]

This station is now operating OUTSIDE in the parking lot, setup in a loaned airstream trailer and running 6W. The URL is http://evacuationradioservices.org/ . The FCC had originally granted them license to operate, but the local Incident Commander (RW Royal, Jr.) wouldnt allow them electrical power. THe FCC reissued the permits for operation from the new location and they are on the air. This project was sponsored by a group affiliated with Pacifica Radio, which owns a station in the Houston market, which is a whole different horse.....~Steve>

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 15 2005,05:19)]Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 14 2005,07:56)]Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Sep. 14 2005,14:58)]At one time, there were two assigned CONELRAD (sp?) frequencies specified on the AM dial. #One toward the low end, 640, one toward the high end, 1240. #In addition, local AM stations could be fed the same information. The current EBS superceded CONELRAD years ago, and not nearly as useful as what it replaced, because of a lack of frequency standard.

"Had this been an actual emergency, you would have been instructed to tune to 640 or 1240 on your radio dial for further instructions and information."
Steve,

The 640 and 1240 frequencies weren't designated for standarization to the public. These frequencies were chosen so during an air raid, planes couldn't use specific broadcast station frequencies to locate targets.

Mike - K1MH
Do you think the Soviets didn't know about 640 and 1240 from the likes of their embassy spy networks? #Think again.

The reason it was called CONELRAD, or short for Controlled Electromagnetic Radiation, was that in addition to requiring all broadcasters to shut down, the output power was to be intentionally varied at each of them, i.e. QSB'ed.

The Soviet pilots in their bombers probably had instructions to tune their DF receivers to one or both of those channels. #However, varying the power would have made getting a 'fix' on the source(s) very difficult.

What is needed today is a widely desiminated FM broadcast frequency that anyone with an FM receiver can tune to. #Disaster agencies could be given easily set up low power FM stations in disaster areas or along routes. #Possibly even solar powered. #That would give FEMA something constructive to manufacture and deliver, since they apparently can't handle food and water effectively.

Two 58 inch dipoles as a turnstile antenna is pretty straightforward and efficient.

Of course, if they are told to suppress information, well, we know what we'd hear. #Zip.

Lee
W6EM
If the public knew about it, of course the Soviets knew about.

Mike - K1MH

[KB2SEO]

A bit of FYI here folks, We ARE talking about the village voice! Might as well be the STAR:D

[ac7dx]

Quote[/b] (W9AFB @ Sep. 14 2005,15:22)]Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 14 2005,17:16)] Then, on Wednesday, August 31, it did a 'fly-by' at about 1000 feet and instead of landing at Keesler AFB, it went on to Andrews AFB, MD. Why? Anybody got any ideas?
cause Keesler is a wreck

http://www.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?storyID=123011495
If the can land a C17...AF1 would be able to also land

[ac7dx]

OOPS!

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (n9lya @ Sep. 15 2005,11:43)]A lot of people screwed up.. A lot did good...

Lets take notes and apply what we learned so we can all improve our responce next time... That Gov't, FEMA, RED Cross, Everyone....

Anything negative will only prove futile..

Lets get Positive... lets keep this from happening next time...

73 jerry N9LYA
Negative is the stuff that has to be fixed.

Mike - K1MH

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ Sep. 14 2005,14:34)]I'm not surprised - the FCC caved in to corporate interests and said community organizations shouldn't have 100W stations, in extremely limited circumstances.

It's a shame, I really can see a 100W station causing HUGE problems to that 90,000W giant!

Jonathan
Commercial radio stations are converting to a digital mode of transmission like everyone else. They are multiplexing their signals so that lets say Z-100 on 100.3 multuplexed their signal,there could be Z-100A, Z-100B, Z-100C, Z-100D on the same frequency. It would be more like a two way split but four is possible.

No reason a station couldn't donate a little bandwidth to a community operation. It won't happen but no reason it can't.

73,

Mike - K1MH

[n3xl]

Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 15 2005,15:07)]Quote[/b] (n9lya @ Sep. 15 2005,11:43)]A lot of people screwed up.. A lot did good...

Lets take notes and apply what we learned so we can all improve our responce next time... That Gov't, FEMA, RED Cross, Everyone....

Anything negative will only prove futile..

Lets get Positive... lets keep this from happening next time...

73 jerry N9LYA
Negative is the stuff that has to be fixed.

Mike - K1MH
I agree that every player should come away with lessons learned, however, I think there is a big underlying problem. Certainly, the post I saw putting the blame on the poor, infirmed, and ignorant is way off-base. Predictably, many of these people are going to be the ones that need government assistance to evacuate. Unequivocally, it is the government's job, yes all the way to the top, to ensure a workable evacuation plan is in place and executed. The pregnant pauses of inaction that we saw during Katrina were due to a lack of preparation (and, I believe, a lack of true caring), on the part of government officials. These people were aware of the predicatble consequences of Katrina and simply did not adequately prepare, as it was their duty to do. We have been a country led by a "I got mine and too bad for the other fellow" mindset in government leadership for too long. #It is time for the "hard work" right here in America, as boring and unglamorous as the requisite planning may be. In OCS we had a Chief Petty Officer teach a bunch of us stupid Ensigns the 7 P's. "Piss Poor Preparation Produces a Piss Poor Product"... but then, who cares.

[kd5aia]

If the Astrodome were my home I would not want reporters
running around in my living room. Step outside for an
interview. Let's try to get these people settled in their new homes
with new jobs cause most of them can never go back to
New Orleans... Would you build your house back there
with no long term solution to the flooding possible regardless
of the Billions of dollars that have already been tried.

[AB4XK]

Yes, I recall the days of "CONELRAD" which stood for "Control of Electromagnetic Radiation" and the only stations supposedly to be on the air were a select few who transmitted either on 640 or 1240 Kilocycles and the transmitting station kept changing to thwart any attempt of missle attacts that could hone in on a radio signal and follow it to the target. This was during the "Cold War" and long before cell phones, repeaters, computers, lasers and the like. Still, a designated frequency would make sense and AM radios can be built cheaper than FM radios. It is no surprise that FEMA, or any Govt agency would want "Full Control" of everything even though the leaders cant tie their own shoes!!

[w8lv]

"We're from the Goverment, and we are here to help you."

Actually, we used to have TWO frequencies just for this--Connelrad (I can't remember the frequencies). Maybe we need to think about that idea again.

The government, like all of us, will learn from this disaster. We will all get better.

Let it be noted for the record that during Hurricaine Katrina, that in all of its forms, commercial, amateur and military, as it always does during a disaster, RADIO CARRIED THE DAY. And what a wonderful invention it is.

And we have a lot of men, true men, to be proud of in our chosen 'avocation'.

"Never Underestimate the Integrity or Ingenuity of an American."

[KB3HCG]

Indy media, you can not trust that "news" source, it is over runned by anarchists. these are the same people that hate the FCC, and belive that hams are just part of the system, they also don't have a problem with pirate radio stations, or jamming, etc. Don't trust the people over at Indy media.

[KA8DKT]

No, actually Keesler was in fine shape. In fact one of the early reports, before the government regained complete control over the news from the area, was that people were wondering why the military had not yet come to help and some people who were in view of the AFB wondered why they could see AF personnel doing calisthentics on Monday morning.
By the way, FEMA is perfectly capable of an appropriate response to this kind of emergency. When Hurricane Frances loomed off the coast of Florida in August of just last year, FEMA was in place *ahead of time* with trucks of water and ice, food and other emergency and relief supplies, evacuation routes and vehicles were set up, *ahead of time*, and the Florida National Guard was activated and at the ready, all *ahead of time*. So please tell me exactly what was the difference between Florida and the Gulf Coast? Katrina wasn't a surprise to anyone, we all saw it coming. And up until the very last minute, everyone thought that New Orleans was going to get hit directly by the hurricane.
There was ample time to set up just like Florida and take care of the folks in the area.
I wonder if Florida in 2005 would have been important enough to cancel a golf outing.
-gary

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (AB4XK @ Sep. 15 2005,19:42)]Yes, I recall the days of "CONELRAD" which stood for "Control of Electromagnetic Radiation" and the only stations supposedly to be on the air were a select few who transmitted either on 640 or 1240 Kilocycles and the transmitting station kept changing to thwart any attempt of missle attacts that could hone in on a radio signal and follow it to the target. This was during the "Cold War" and long before cell phones, repeaters, computers, lasers and the like. Still, a designated frequency would make sense and AM radios can be built cheaper than FM radios. It is no surprise that FEMA, or any Govt agency would want "Full Control" of everything even though the leaders cant tie their own shoes!!
These stations are called TIS stations I put one on in my town. 10 Watt AM transmitter.

Mike - K1MH

[n0doz]

Everybody's always ready to blame the government when things are not done the way they "should" be done. The only way that's possible, however, is if we give the feds total authority over all aspects of American life. Anybody willing to do that? To allow the Feds to say, in any situation major or minor, "You locals are screwing this up. Move over, we're handling it now." I seriously doubt it. Currently, the law doesn't allow that in most situations, anyway.
Yet that's the only way things could have been different in this disaster.

So today that dope of a governor down there was caught admitting she screwed up, on tape, when she thought the cameras were off. Next thing you know, she's taking the blame publicly.

The reason FEMA and the rest of the feds didn't respond quickly was because NOBODY KNEW THE STATE AND CITY WOULD SCREW UP SO BADLY! THEY WEREN"T READY FOR A TOTAL FAILURE OF STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO DO THEIR JOBS!

All you Republican bashers: back to the drawing board. You failed again.

[kc7run]

Quote[/b] (n0doz @ Sep. 15 2005,17:05)]The reason FEMA and the rest of the feds didn't respond quickly was because NOBODY KNEW THE STATE AND CITY WOULD SCREW UP SO BADLY! THEY WEREN"T READY FOR A TOTAL FAILURE OF STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO DO THEIR JOBS!

All you Republican bashers: back to the drawing board. You failed again.
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td>

http://www.overnightam.com/siteimages/ray_nagin.jpg (http://www.overnightam.com/katrina-video/cbs_60min_ray_nagin_050904a.wmv)Ray Nagin on CBS 60 Minutes Sunday Sept 4, 2005. Mayor Nagin is being targeted by the main stream media for his failings during Hurricane Katrina. Several reporters have rudely ask him point blank if he considered himself to be responsible for the events in New Orleans over the past week. To date, Mayor Nagin has withstood the political firestorm and the flood waters of Hurricane Katrina while at the same time trying to save as many lives as he can with the small amount of resources he has at his disposal. The main stream media ( which I am very grateful for at this point in time ) has attempted to pin him down, but is beginning to understand that the real targets are in the District of Columbia. Click on images to DOWNLOAD MOVIE FILES:
<a href="http://www.overnightam.com/katrina-video/cbs_60min_ray_nagin_050904a.wmv" target="_blank"></p>

<a href="http://www.overnightam.com/katrina....mg]http</a> F.E.M.A. turned back water that had been donated by Walmart. F.E.M.A. also refused diesel fuel, donated by the U.S. Coast Guard, to the city of New Orleans to rebuild Levees F.E.M.A. cut off emergency communications already established inside New Orleans for Police. Fire and EMA. Not to mention other things that continues inside New Orleans. The bureaucracy must end now if more people are to survive the flooding. People lives are stack in Louisiana. It's now a war zone and is being treated as such. We the people must intervene if this nonsense is to stop. It's time to call our Congressmen and write our Senators and make donations to help those who simply can not help themselves</p>

</p>

http://www.overnightam.com/siteimages/Geraldo-Rivera.jpg (http://www.overnightam.com/modules/debaser/singlefile.php?id=10)Kudos to Shepard Smith who shocked the living hell out of me after his staunch reply and interruption to Sean Hannity regarding the living conditions at the convention center in New Orleans. It is very clear to see that both Rivera and Smith are emotional. I think they did one hell of a job bringing to the American people the facts rather than the spin of the media which Colmes and Hannity continued to propagate throughout the interview. I am no fan of Rivera, but if there was ever a time that his barn storming was least apparent it was inside this interview. Perhaps Rivera will turn over a new leaf in his reporting. It seems that Shepard Smith has had a positive influence on him.</p>

http://www.overnightam.com/siteimages/Shepard-Smith.jpg (http://www.overnightam.com/modules/debaser/singlefile.php?id=11)I looked everywhere on the Internet for this interview, including Fox news, and it was no where to be found. My thanks to Mike and Crooks & Liars (http://www.crooksandliars.com/) for paying attention to the propaganda so intently.</p></p>






SCHIEFFER: "Finally, a personal thought. We have come through what may have been one of the worst weeks in America's history, a week in which government at every level failed the people it was created to serve. There is no purpose for government except to improve the lives of its citizens. Yet as scenes of horror that seemed to be coming from some Third World country flashed before us, official Washington was like a dog watching television. It saw the lights and images, but did not seem to comprehend their meaning or see any link to reality. As the floodwaters rose, local officials in New Orleans ordered the city evacuated. They might as well have told their citizens to fly to the moon. How do you evacuate when you don't have a car? No hint of intelligent design in any of this. This was just survival of the richest."[/i]</p>

<bold> I don't think this has anything to do with political parties. This has everything to do with humanity and nothing more...
</bold></p></td></tr>
</table>

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (AB4XK @ Sep. 15 2005,19:42)]Yes, I recall the days of "CONELRAD" which stood for "Control of Electromagnetic Radiation" and the only stations supposedly to be on the air were a select few who transmitted either on 640 or 1240 Kilocycles and the transmitting station kept changing to thwart any attempt of missle attacts that could hone in on a radio signal and follow it to the target. This was during the "Cold War" and long before cell phones, repeaters, computers, lasers and the like. Still, a designated frequency would make sense and AM radios can be built cheaper than FM radios. It is no surprise that FEMA, or any Govt agency would want "Full Control" of everything even though the leaders cant tie their own shoes!!
This is partially true. Designated stations in an area had to make their transmitters frequency agile and antennas resonate on either 640 or 1240. The rest were supposed to sign off.

I still don't quite understand why a fixed disaster frequency is any different than a regular broadcaster.

Mike -73

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (n0doz @ Sep. 15 2005,23:05)]Everybody's always ready to blame the government when things are not done the way they "should" be done. #The only way that's possible, however, is if we give the feds total authority over all aspects of American life. #Anybody willing to do that? #To allow the Feds to say, in any situation major or minor, "You locals are screwing this up. #Move over, we're handling it now." #I seriously doubt it. #Currently, the law doesn't allow that in most situations, anyway.
Yet that's the only way things could have been different in this disaster.

So today that dope of a governor down there was caught admitting she screwed up, on tape, when she thought the cameras were off. #Next thing you know, she's taking the blame publicly.

The reason FEMA and the rest of the feds didn't respond quickly was because NOBODY KNEW THE STATE AND CITY WOULD SCREW UP SO BADLY! #THEY WEREN"T READY FOR A TOTAL FAILURE OF STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO DO THEIR JOBS!

All you Republican bashers: back to the drawing board. #You failed again.
You are correct but liberals never have to take the blame for anything. The mayor rounds up 550 buses and parks them outside Hell Dome. They are all flooded and ruined. He couldn't have possibly moved everyone before the storm.

The governor is clueless too. She is upset the dea aren't being picked up fast enough. She wants the living to risk their lives in that toxic waste fishing around for the dead.

There is no such condition as seriously dead or critically dead. The dead will be dead tomorrow.

Mike - K1MH

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 15 2005,08:02)]This is partially true. Designated stations in an area had to make their transmitters frequency agile and antennas resonate on either 640 or 1240. The rest were supposed to sign off.

I still don't quite understand why a fixed disaster frequency is any different than a regular broadcaster.

Mike -73
So was your response, partially true.

Antennas are not *resonated* in the AM broadcast band, they are tuned, as they are almost always too short to have no reactive component.

A station would have to have either a separate, switchable tuning box, or tuner, in our vernacular or one that was adjustable to another predetermined group of settings to match the feedline to the antenna at the appropriate CONELRAD frequency.

Continuing to operate the same broadcast transmitter, at the same power level, and in the same manner was not the purpose of the concept, as those Soviets would have just had to adjust their DF gear to one of the two frequencies to chose their target. Like I said earlier, continuously varying power level was the key to the system being able to confuse DFing.

[AL7QQ]

Well, Katria has come and gone. #We all learn from everything we do or fail to do after we're confronted with any situation and hopefully we come away from this with new ways to prepare ourselves for these Significant Emotional life changing events. #As far as screwing up alot of people in power did and some stupid things and many we're to stupid or inexperienced to realize what they did was stupid or complacent. This was another significantly driven media event that depending on which politically controlled media you watched or or listened to significantly swayed your opions. #As far as on the ground support agencies my hats off to all that provided much needed personal support to the people effected by Katrina. #As a retired Army Sergeant Major I've had the opportunity to work with my soldiers through Red Cross and after many problems with the Red Cross I eventually began to recommend my soldiers to use the AER (Army Emergency Relief) over the Red Cross 9 out of every 10 times. #The Salvation Army has always been someone to turn to if you needed assistance. #As for FEMA I still believe they did a good job and are still doing a good job considering the magnitude of this situation. #Things will get better as they go on. #I still think they need to independent from the Homeland Defense bunch though. #As far as reaction time for federal resourses. #Those who've served the country can understand why it takes time to move them I'm sure. #If not well its a big ball of wax and it takes time for it's momentum to build but once it starts to roll it brings qalot to the table. #As far as all the independent agencies that provided support big kudos but that's what should happen from the get go and it happened. #Eventually more and more resources will be more readily available. #As far as the dedicated frequencies for communications I'd like to see something done in that area. #But I can't beleive that there isn't more available in back-up power systems to provide the juice to operate in general. But I'm sure that will improve as they rebuild. #I don't like to political bash so I really won't. # But, people talk about the guard forces and the active duty supporting the operations down in the affected areas. #They are bound by law as to what they can do and can't do very similar to civilians. #They take time to activate, accept volunteers to deploy, muster needed supplies and deploy into the affected area and set-up operations. #This all doesn't happen overnight. It all takes alot of time. #I think the Coast Guard did a fantastic job, but most of them were already stationed there and flew into action. #(Great job!!!!) #Anyway everyone of us has our opinions and it's interesting to read these streams and see the varing degrees of digust from the way things were handled. #It's always easy to arm chair quarterback anything but when the next election comes up some of you ought to run for office, especially the rocket scientists of which I read your streams with much dismay. #Maybe you'll win so we can criticize your inability to cope with the stress of a disaster like Katrina. 73's all:rock:

[W9WHE]

W6EM writes:

"It [the station] was stopped because the Feds don't want anything said that might reflect or spread the ideas and opinions of the evacuees."

Nonsence.
As if ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC & PBS aren't already reflecting the "ideas and opinions of the evacuees". You think FEMA is afraid that some local hams might broadcast something that ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC & PBS haven't already? Get a grip.

As if those lefty outlets haven't already launched every possible criticizm imaginable, and a few that werent!

Give me a break.

W9WHE

[W9WHE]

KD5PMU writes:

"AHHH The Federal Goverment Seems to be controlling everything now days Hum Land of the free?"

GIVE ME A BREAK.

You people blame FEMA for not taking control from the locals, then blame FEMA when it does. You can't have it both ways. The so-called "professional" news media is in there broadcasting around the clock. Why do they need a bunch of untrained amateurs? Come on!

FEMA has enough to do without providing security for this "questionable" project. We all know that if FEMA did not provide security, and something happened, that those same people would wail like stuck pigs! Moreover, others would whine about providing security for the project instead of the citizens of New Orleans. Its a "no win" for FEMA.

When will you Coolaid drinkers give it a rest?

W9WHE

[k7vin]

This post comes from the Village Voice and if you came from New York City YOU WOULD CRINGE AT THE MENTION OF THIS PAPER.It is a paper that is full of extreme leftist propaganda and filth.I would'nt believe anything in it,it is so far to the left that KARL MARX,TED KENNEDY AND HILLARY CLINTON would call it to far to the left and blush.It is not fit to wipe you know what with.
KE7EGZ

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 16 2005,05:20)]Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 15 2005,08:02)]This is partially true. Designated stations in an area had to make their transmitters frequency agile and antennas resonate on either 640 or 1240. The rest were supposed to sign off.

I still don't quite understand why a fixed disaster frequency is any different than a regular broadcaster.

Mike -73
So was your response, partially true.

Antennas are not *resonated* in the AM broadcast band, they are tuned, as they are almost always too short to have no reactive component.

A station would have to have either a separate, switchable tuning box, or tuner, in our vernacular or one that was adjustable to another predetermined group of settings to match the feedline to the antenna at the appropriate CONELRAD frequency.

Continuing to operate the same broadcast transmitter, at the same power level, and in the same manner was not the purpose of the concept, as those Soviets would have just had to adjust their DF gear to one of the two frequencies to chose their target. #Like I said earlier, continuously varying power level was the key to the system being able to confuse DFing.
You are correct. AM stations all use tuning circuits. The stations would either make modifications to the existing circuit or have a mode for this purpose.

According to one of my old professors, that worked in radio at that time as an engineer, told me that it was only actually tested natiowide a couple of times.

Never heard that power fluctuation was part of it.

Mike - K1MH

[k4pbn]

Note to W6EM and all the Bush haters: Enough of your anti-American propaganda. If I want to hear that, I can tune in to Radio Havana.

[n0doz]

>You are correct but liberals never have to take the blame for anything.<
Yes, and why is that, anyway?
I have no desire to politicize this or any other mess, but it's been done already by the democrats. It's very sad that they need to capitalize on the suffering of people to denigrate the efforts of the other side. I saw an interesting line in an article the other day: the democrats are acting like we're in a perpetual election, like every misstep needs to be brought up to the voters as an example of why they (the dems) must be returned to power as soon as possible. If you don't believe me, look at the crap Howard Dean's been saying.

>The mayor rounds up 550 buses and parks them outside Hell Dome. They are all flooded and ruined. He couldn't have possibly moved everyone before the storm.<
...because they didn't follow the plan already in place to accomplish it. Perhaps they couldn't get everyone out - as we've seen, there are a hell of a lot of people down there that don't want to leave no matter what - but they could have evacuated more than they did. Did you hear that mayor yelling on the local radio station about getting Greyhound buses to evacuate people, when his own buses were abandoned? What, school buses aren't good enough to escape in?

>The governor is clueless too. She is upset the dead aren't being picked up fast enough. She wants the living to risk their lives in that toxic waste fishing around for the dead.<
This is where the politics comes in. It's a long-time political principle: When something in the government at any level goes wrong, blame the party in power. This is the same governor that wouldn't sign over the mess to the feds even a week later.... she needed more time to decide, she said. (And that was quoted by the mayor of NO, who was present.) And to me, that's fine, as long as the state is willing and able to manage the situation. That's how it's supposed to happen: unless it's a national issue, such as a nuclear incident, that is reserved for the feds to handle, disasters are managed by the locals and state. No one ever figured the locals and state would simply not do what they were supposed to.
BTW: I'd rather quote Karl Marx than The Village Voice, The New York Times, or CNN. At least Marx admitted where he was coming from.

[K1MH]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 16 2005,05:20)]Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 15 2005,08:02)]This is partially true. Designated stations in an area had to make their transmitters frequency agile and antennas resonate on either 640 or 1240. The rest were supposed to sign off.

I still don't quite understand why a fixed disaster frequency is any different than a regular broadcaster.

Mike -73
So was your response, partially true.

Antennas are not *resonated* in the AM broadcast band, they are tuned, as they are almost always too short to have no reactive component.

A station would have to have either a separate, switchable tuning box, or tuner, in our vernacular or one that was adjustable to another predetermined group of settings to match the feedline to the antenna at the appropriate CONELRAD frequency.

Continuing to operate the same broadcast transmitter, at the same power level, and in the same manner was not the purpose of the concept, as those Soviets would have just had to adjust their DF gear to one of the two frequencies to chose their target. #Like I said earlier, continuously varying power level was the key to the system being able to confuse DFing.
Not at all. You elaborated a bit more than I did.

I fully understand the workings of an AM broadcast station. I was the chief of an AM in NH some 30 years ago.

Sometimes I assume that everyone understands how broadcast stations are built so I simplify perhaps too much. #

When a properly tuned matching circuit is placed between the transmitter and antenna, a #single stick antenna for the purposes of this discussion, it will make the antenna resonant or it can be said to resonate. I have never used or even heard the term "resonated" in my life.

The reduced power was a new fact I was unaware of. CONELRAD was a history lesson when I got into the business. We had our sealed, color-coded, authenticator envelopes.

Mike - K1MH

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 15 2005,14:34)]Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 16 2005,05:20)]Quote[/b] (K1MH @ Sep. 15 2005,08:02)]This is partially true. Designated stations in an area had to make their transmitters frequency agile and antennas resonate on either 640 or 1240. The rest were supposed to sign off.

I still don't quite understand why a fixed disaster frequency is any different than a regular broadcaster.

Mike -73
So was your response, partially true.

Antennas are not *resonated* in the AM broadcast band, they are tuned, as they are almost always too short to have no reactive component.

A station would have to have either a separate, switchable tuning box, or tuner, in our vernacular or one that was adjustable to another predetermined group of settings to match the feedline to the antenna at the appropriate CONELRAD frequency.

Continuing to operate the same broadcast transmitter, at the same power level, and in the same manner was not the purpose of the concept, as those Soviets would have just had to adjust their DF gear to one of the two frequencies to chose their target. #Like I said earlier, continuously varying power level was the key to the system being able to confuse DFing.
Not at all. You elaborated a bit more than I did.

I fully understand the workings of an AM broadcast station. I was the chief of an AM in NH some 30 years ago.

Sometimes I assume that everyone understands how broadcast stations are