OUT OF ARIZONA

[WA5KRP]

For those of us who grew up in the southwestern US, the illegal immigrant is a familiar part of life. #However, in recent years even those like myself who have grown accustomed to border crashers are getting beyond scared about the invasion from the south. #It is becoming brazen and those appointed to stem the flow are hugely outnumbered.

From Arizona, a disturbing story. (http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid%3A71525) #Americans better let it be known in the next Presidential (and on down) elections that we want our borders secure. #Out of control is a BAD IDEA.



WA5KRP
Texas

[al2i]

Thanks for the link Danny.

[KW4MW]

I have read similar stories elsewhere but this one is most disturbing.

US citizens, and not just those in the SouthWest, are concerned about this tidal wave of illegals and possible terrorists while the Feds look the other way. #

Here's an idea, let's let the Sunni take back Iraq and we'll use our military to take back America. #

Democrats are you listening? #You can get the swing voters on your side by promising to stop the flow of illegals and sending the ones already here back to Vincente Fox.

[W7WV]

I live abou 10 miles from the border myself, between Doublas and Sierra Vista.
It's a semi rural area, mostly small ranches and homes on acerage.
We had the highest arrests in our country in the nation last year for illegal immigration, nearly 262,000 that were caught.
People don't think this is possible, but the fact is that it's getting worse.
The last estimates I saw by the feds state they think there are some 18 million illegals living in the US now.

[WA5KRP]

I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record but I'm growing increasingly convinced illegal immigration across our southern border will be the second biggest issue in the upcoming Presidential election, eclipsed only by the war in Iraq.

If the Democrats have their wits about them, they should steal the initiative and make this a huge issue in their 2008 platform. #New refineries and nuclear power, too (like that'll ever happen).

Cheap advice but it'll win an election.


WA5KRP
Texas

[w0aew]

Why are the illegals coming? If for work, who is hiring them? Do these people face any penalties for hiring illegals, or do they just have to recruit more to replace the deported?

If the illegals are not coming for work, then what's the attraction? If welfare, then how does one obtain welfare benefits without proof of citizenship? If their credentials are false (faked), then how is it not possible to create credentials that are more difficult to fake?

[ai4ep]

What does this have to do with truckers on 10 meters ?

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ Sep. 14 2005,08:18)]If welfare, then how does one obtain welfare benefits without proof of citizenship? If their credentials are false (faked), then how is it not possible to create credentials that are more difficult to fake?
You gotta be kidding. Where have you been....Kansas? Do you know anything about entitlements or state and federal mandates?



WA5KRP
Texas

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Sep. 14 2005,07:01)]What does this have to do with truckers on 10 meters ?
Not a thing.

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (WA5KRP @ Sep. 14 2005,07:09)]Where have you been....Kansas? Do you know anything about entitlements or state and federal mandates?



WA5KRP
Texas
Evidently not. Please enlighten me.

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ Sep. 14 2005,06:18)]Why are the illegals coming? If for work, who is hiring them? Do these people face any penalties for hiring illegals, or do they just have to recruit more to replace the deported?

If the illegals are not coming for work, then what's the attraction? If welfare, then how does one obtain welfare benefits without proof of citizenship? If their credentials are false (faked), then how is it not possible to create credentials that are more difficult to fake?
Obviously from someone not living in a place with a great number of immigrants! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Possibly the average American doesn't know that to receive Social Security benefits here, all one needs to do is have his feet on U.S. soil. No citizenship required. No green card required, either.

There is one stipulation: You can't have any money.

No problem for most of the illegal immigrants, they meet this criteria.

As Jay Leno spoofed on The Tonight Show not long ago: "A survey revealed that 60% of all Mexicans would like to live in the United States. The other 40% are already here."

WB2WIK/6 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ac4ut]

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ Sep. 14 2005,06:18)]Why are the illegals coming? If for work, who is hiring them? Do these people face any penalties for hiring illegals, or do they just have to recruit more to replace the deported?

If the illegals are not coming for work, then what's the attraction? If welfare, then how does one obtain welfare benefits without proof of citizenship? If their credentials are false (faked), then how is it not possible to create credentials that are more difficult to fake?
Documents are easily faked and reasonable to buy. About $50 I hear is the going rate.
I have seen some fake ones and they look pretty good.

AC4UT HR Director

PS: No, I didn't hire them.

[W7WV]

Exactly, we must do something about the employers that hire these people. Many are hired without proper ID and we all know where they are.
I think the penalties on employers need to be increased, perhaps to taking the assets of the businesses away that are found to be in violation. Make to tough for these people to find a job.
If they can't get jobs, that ought to slow the immigration up a little.

[ac4ut]

Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Sep. 14 2005,10:12)]Exactly, we must do something about the employers that hire these people. Many are hired without proper ID and we all know where they are.
I think the penalties on employers need to be increased, perhaps to taking the assets of the businesses away that are found to be in violation. Make to tough for these people to find a job.
If they can't get jobs, that ought to slow the immigration up a little.
I have no problem withe legal workers .We employ about 70 or 80 per season.
J1 students that work for 3 months and then go home and no they are not displacing American workers in this area.

[W5HTW]

Interesting reading, certainly. I have almost no doubts concerning whether it's voracity, but even if not totally true, it is very representative of what is happening in all four of the states that border Mexico.

While on the site, I found a series entitled "Censored Stories." There were 25 of them, allegedly news stories that have been censored (though it isn't clear who did the censoring; the implication is the White House or US Government) Every one of those stories is totally anti-establishment, setting a strong tone of this Tucson Weekly as leaning so heavily to the left it has to be supported by at least one counter balance, which is the story in the link. Some of the 25 stories are laughable, such as one that claims George W. Bush plans to annex Canada into the United States. Others are simply pathetic. And again, as a counter balance, the editor who compiled those stories did find one she claims may be somewhat doubtful as to its authenticity.

All this severely damages the link story, sorry to say, even if by nothing other than association. Yet there are enough known-true stories of border problems, that even if some of this story is fiction, or exaggerated, it is largely typical of what is truly taking place. Anyone living in the border states is aware of the realities. And one of those is, in effect, there IS no border.

The byline of this story contains a link to other articles by the author. Exploring them may be interesting. Some of the headlines suggest he may be the 'right wing' contributor to balance the left leaning contributing writers. But I have not visited them yet, so that's just a guess. I'll do so, when I have time, so that I do not find myself guilty of taking a biased stance.

Ed

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Sep. 14 2005,09:19)]Possibly the average American doesn't know that to receive Social Security benefits here, all one needs to do is have his feet on U.S. soil. No citizenship required. No green card required, either.

There is one stipulation: You can't have any money.
Really? According to this Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/pending/mexican.asp) article on illegal immigrants and social security, illegals forge documents (with fake SSNs) to allow them to collect wages and pay into a SS account. However, since the account is fabricated, they cannot receive benefits.

In my youth I worked a few temporary jobs with illegals (who used forged documents). Taxes, including SS, were withheld. However, they couldn't file tax returns like I could to get back their overpayments (we earned minimum wage). And they'll never see their SS benefits unless the "totalization" bill discussed in Snopes is passed.

However, the guys I knew lived crowded together in an apartment and sent the bulk of their earnings home. Did they complain? Hardly. Living that kind of life was immeasurably better than what was available in Mexico or Guatamala.

[ac4ut]

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ Sep. 14 2005,10:51)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Sep. 14 2005,09:19)]Possibly the average American doesn't know that to receive Social Security benefits here, all one needs to do is have his feet on U.S. soil. #No citizenship required. #No green card required, either.

There is one stipulation: You can't have any money.
Really? According to this Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/pending/mexican.asp) article on illegal immigrants and social security, illegals forge documents (with fake SSNs) to allow them to collect wages and pay into a SS account. However, since the account is fabricated, they cannot receive benefits.

In my youth I worked a few temporary jobs with illegals (who used forged documents). Taxes, including SS, were withheld. However, they couldn't file tax returns like I could to get back their overpayments (we earned minimum wage). And they'll never see their SS benefits unless the "totalization" bill discussed in Snopes is passed.

However, the guys I knew lived crowded together in an apartment and sent the bulk of their earnings home. Did they complain? Hardly. Living that kind of life was immeasurably better than what was available in Mexico or Guatamala.
What some do is to use duplicate id's. Say Juan has three brothers ,but Juan is the only legal immigrant.
If they use forged documents of Juan's legitimate documents then some day Juan can collect the SS.
If it were fortunate enough that Juans brother Eimall were his twin it would be even easier.
So in that case "if you've seen Juan,you've seen Eimall".

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (ac4ut @ Sep. 14 2005,14:02)]So in that case "if you've seen Juan,you've seen Eimall".
All together now.....


GRRROOAAANNNNN

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ Sep. 14 2005,07:31)]Democrats are you listening? #You can get the swing voters on your side by promising to stop the flow of illegals and sending the ones already here back to Vincente Fox.
How about you Mike, will you swing your vote next election?

kxq

[KE7DFP]

I would swing my vote to a Demcratic Candidate if I felt gauranteed he would shut the border down. All issues rest on this one. Defense, overpopulation, economics, enviroment.

[K0RGR]

Well, the Dummycrats in California have been split on this subject for a long time. Most of the establishment Dummycrats out there are afraid that if they get too tough on the illegals, it will offend the Hispanics, and it will offend the Hispanics if there is a 'witchhunt' for illegal aliens. We need to stop them at the border, not go looking for the ones that are already here. It should be very hard to hire an illegal alien, however.

But, the union side of the Dummycrat party has always taken the "death to illegals" position. The United Farm Workers had their own border patrol going out there years ago to stop the illegals from taking away their jobs. The laborites need to talk some sense into the tea cozy and brea cheese set.

Sorry Republicans, but the GOP has always talked a good game, while casting a totally blind eye toward the problem, because the ranchers out there needed the cheap labor.

Yes, I'm all in favor - no American should have to worry about having his home invaded by foreign nationals on a nightly basis- that's ridiculous!

[KI6ADA]

Ok, first of all I am a Democrat and damn proud. The border situation is way out of control. We need to bring our National Guard home and protect the borders of USA not some,sand field out in the middle of Sand Land. I am fed up with all the excuses. If we invaded Mexico or Canada it would be an act of war against those countries. What gives them the right to break down our borders. At the rate of illegal immigration in the US; The Mexicans might as well give Mexico to the US and the Canadians except for Quebec (anti French or anything to do with France) give it up to US. Lets adopt the Canadian Education and Health system and build more homes in California.We can move our crops to sunny Mexico and give those poor immigrants a reason to stay in the warm weather. I believe America is a land of opporutunity for those of us who pay taxes. But don't come here illegally and get paid by cash and send your money out of the country. If you come here to work you have to pay your taxes and be taxed.
Well anyway America was founded on not paying taxes to the King, now we pay our taxes to the Queen Georgie. haaaah! I can't wait until the next election, Hell I might as well run for President and bring this country back to love and peace........... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif