U.S. Lacks Unified Emergency Radio System

[kg4kww]

U.S. Lacks Unified Emergency Radio System (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=1122526)

[W5HTW]

Interesting article but it does not address a few things. To me the most glaring omission is that, with probably over a hundred thousand small agencies in the USA (local police, fire and medical) there is no way to get them all on shared channels, or even to get them radios that *could* get on shared channels in an emergency. Doing so would create a mess that sounds like Channel 19 on CB - S9 plus 30 db of steady noise.

I think a lot of the communication fell to radios in the GMRS and FRS arena. Totally asinine, as these radios are underpowered, have limited channels, and may be shared with kids, crooks and car dealers.

One solution, but a very expensive one, would be to have a readily (meaning almost instantly) stockpile of radios stored at the federal level, that can be disseminated within hours of the FIRST sign of trouble. These radios would then be spread among emergency workers in that area. They would likely operate on VHF, not UHF, would have 20 channels, and switchable power levels of under a watt up to five watts. Mobile units could also be stored, units with the same 20 channels, mag mount antennas, 30 watts RF output, and quick-connect power cables.

It's all easy, but it takes money.

The problem is duplication of effort. State and local authorities doing what the feds should do, and vice versa. There should be a certain red line that if crosssed would (a) mobilize federal personnel, and (b) federalize local personnel. That would put everyone under the same command chain, and the same communications, the same operating procedures, same responsibilities and duties. We are afraid to do that as we fear trampling on States' Rights. And then we scream that the Feds didn't do their job!

If, my law, every cop and fireman in the Gulf Coast area, had been federalized for the duration, following the Monday morning hit by Katrina, there would have been one boss, one chain of command, one method, one system of communications. And a lot of local leaders left to sit on the sidelines, or go find a safe place to play golf.

If we want the federal government to handle the situation, then we have to give them not only the duty, but the power. They have the duty; they don't have the power. They can federalize the National Guard, but they can't the local police, medical and fire. Or the local communications.

The very last thing we would want, though, is to put the communications in the hands of the hams. We are so lacking in standardization we would be tragically laughable! But I would imagine this thread was not started with that intent, so I make the comment in passing.

We need to decide the duties we want handled in an emergency. Only when we, the public, decide that, can the proper authority go do those duties.

Ed

[k6bbc]

sure we do.....

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[K8ERV]

When our local police moved to the 800 digi system, I asked how they communicated with other agencies, such as the state patrol, and was told "by cell phone". Great technology. I think we should issue everyone two tin cans and some wet string.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[W7WV]

I used to work at a nuclear submarine shipyard. It is now closed.
During my last job at the base while assigned to public works I had the opportunity to work with my crew in the Emergency Communications Center trying to fix electrical problems (0verloads) of circuits in the complex.
While my crew was installing new circuits and trying to seperate the loads, I noted that they had no HF radio equipment whatsoever in case of emergencies.
The had UHF/VHF, phones a such.
This was all they had in and area of CA noted for large earthquakes. A widespread power outage was likely in a major event and had happened many times before.

[ae1x]

I seem to recall that there was a plan in place to federalize local activities under the bander of Civil Defense back during the early Cold War Days. This was desolved as time marched on and it became more a local disaster relief effort. Finally, in my community, the issue became local liability for volunteer workers and the demands of the public service unions to provide overtime for their members rather than have organized volunteers perform the tasks of emergency management. Today, our Fire Chief is the the Emergency Management Agency Director and we have a civilian assistance who is now advanced in years.

The problem boils down to who is in command. Local Officials are very sensitive about turning any function of local government over to higher authorities and then finding themselves saddled with the bill that must be paid.

How do we resolve this? The answer lies in people power. The voters must be more involved at all levels of government, but that just is not going to happen because most emergencies are regional and the rest of us just keep going about our business. We need to wake up and smell the coffee. We are responsible for our government at all levels and must begin to demand accountability. The finger point after a disaster is always the response then there is an overkill followed by a lapse back into mediocrity.

Ken

[ai4ep]

yes we do...called C B radio...available at some stores, yard sales, pawn shops, flea markets and maybe just maybe there is at least one in YOUR neighborhood. No test or license required....no morse code test....just follow the directions about power and antenna and microphone hook up and pick a channel and talk, talk, talk !!

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Sep. 14 2005,07:05)]yes we do...called C B radio...available at some stores, yard sales, pawn shops, flea markets and maybe just maybe there is at least one in YOUR neighborhood. #No test or license required....no morse code test....just follow the directions about power and antenna and microphone hook up and pick a channel and talk, talk, talk !!
What does this have to do with illegal truckers transmitting on 10 meters ?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KD6NIG]

As far as I know, in California the Fire departments and Police used to have "Clemars" or "Mutual Aid" frequencies, at least these were listed in Scanner guides. I don't know if they were ever used, as I never heard anything on them although I had them programmed.

I believe this was about all they had though, and they would just program them into the radios they had as one of the channels in case of emergency. I would guess though that they would only use them in California. I know when I used to live in Plumas County the CHP/County Sheriff would use the primary clemars frequency to talk between them as needed, but down here in the valley, although I have it programmed, I have never heard it used.

I wouldn't be shocked if such a frequency would be made mandatory now. It wouldn't be a bad idea if they had one designated for this, and just make it have to be programmed into all emergency service vehicles. Of course, one would probably be very insufficent, but it would be a start.

[WA5KRP]

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I don't think I'll ever see all the alphabet agencies (at ALL levels) ever getting past internecine warfare, much less opening channels of communications with other agencies and cooperating. There's just too much inertia to overcome.

If Motorola ever came up with a flexible system designed for interagency emergency communications during a blackout, you can bet the farm half the agencies would wait for something from GE.



WA5KRP
Texas

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ Sep. 14 2005,07:07)]What does this have to do with illegal truckers transmitting on 10 meters ?
Not a darned thing.

[ae1x]

Have any of you ever seen the inside of a FEMA communications installation? Several years ago Massachusetts had an open house at its Emergency Management Bunker in Framingham, MA. There were all kinds of displays at this gathering and one was from FEMA. Inside that unit was a bank of programmable radioes. They could dial up any frequency on any of the VHF-Lo, VHF-Hi, UHF, etc and operate in any desired mode. I'm not sure if there was an HF station, but I would not be surprised. This type of system could have been deployed anywhere and set up as a repeater or remote base station to facilitate emergency communications. Now, I'm not sure that they have this stuff any more considering all the changes that have been made since I was last active in that arena, but it was impressive to say the least.

This would be a short answer to the question about whether systems exist to support this type coordination. In fact, I think they could patch just about any service through to another service on any band as needed.

Ken

[kb1ils]

AE1X -- All that, and then some. I don't know what operating condition some of the gear is in, but I know the National Guard keeps almost everything top form and MEMA is pretty good about maintenance as well. I have had the pleasure of working with some of the state's top commo personnel and they are a bunch of concerned and knowledgeable fellows, not the types at all to stand by the wayside and allow things to fall into disrepair.

FWIW, even the MSP helos have some exotic brand of DC-to-daylight transceivers on board...wish I could recall the brand, it is very obscure to me and the radios cost more money than I make in a year.

[k6pme]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Sep. 14 2005,07:28)]As far as I know, in California the Fire departments and Police used to have "Clemars" or "Mutual Aid" frequencies, at least these were listed in Scanner guides. #I don't know if they were ever used, as I never heard anything on them although I had them programmed.

I believe this was about all they had though, and they would just program them into the radios they had as one of the channels in case of emergency. #I would guess though that they would only use them in California. #I know when I used to live in Plumas County the CHP/County Sheriff would use the primary clemars frequency to talk between them as needed, but down here in the valley, although I have it programmed, I have never heard it used.

I wouldn't be shocked if such a frequency would be made mandatory now. #It wouldn't be a bad idea if they had one designated for this, and just make it have to be programmed into all emergency service vehicles. #Of course, one would probably be very insufficent, but it would be a start.
We also have White Fire 1, 2, 3 and Calcord. Then OES and CDF both have their respective regional and state wide systems. As for LE, I have no idea what is set up.

Ca. OES and CDF also have huge stockpiles of radio's and other supplies sitting around the State in 18 wheelers and warehouse's. But it's all set up for firecamps and to a lesser extent, earthquakes. There isn't very much provision made for civilians though, the Red Cross is tasked for that job.

The Feds should take a close look at the Ca. Fire Service Mutual Aid System. While not all encompassing by any means, we DO know how to move resources quickly and efficiently.