QSL Cost

[k0ru]

After going through my QSL's today and finalizing the reply cards. (I travel allot and takes me a long time to reply), anyhow I've just totalled my postage for 2005, I keep a running total of my postage on a spreadsheet. #Ouch, I just hit over $450.00 just in POSTAGE, that isn't envolopes, QSL cards, nothing else but simply good ole Uncle Sams postage stamps. #Last year I was over $350.00 at the end of the year. #This is September and I'm hitting $450.00 already. #Just in 2004 and 2005 alone I've spent $800.00 just in postage. #Simply put my budget just can not continue to support that type of cash flow for postage of QSL Cards. #Well let me put it another way, the YL says enough is enough and I have to agree, with $800.00 I could have bought that rig for the mobile I've been wanting. #Don't get me wrong I love getting the cards in the mail just like the next operator, however it has to come to a stop at some point. #I've been a ham for 35 years, and I never thought I would have to consider a budget for QSL Cards until this past 3 and 4 years when I began tracking the postage. #Especially sense the were other alternatives like EQSL, etc. out there but I really wanted to continue to send the paper back QSL CARD mainly for historical reason. #Unfortunatly it saddens me to have to cave in and go another route. #I will no longer be sending QSL CARD (paper type) via the postal. #I will reply with an electronic form of some sort, I haven't quite figured out what electronic method I'm going to do, but I have to do something. #(Open to suggestions that work for others)

Now that I've got that off my shoulder, leads me to a couple of statements about people who do send QSL cards.

#1... Why do people send a QSL card for each and every contact they have with you. #An example, I have one call in my database that has sent me 8 QSL cards, one for each QSO we've ever had. #Why? #Wasn't 1 card enough? #Or am I missing something?
#2... SASE, hmmm why send a SASE to a Local (USA) ham? #I never use a SASE to respond to a QSL, that just doesn't feel proper edequte (spelling) to me. #Oh yeah it could have saved me alittle in postage (10 to 20.00) but again, that just doesn't seem appropriate.
#3...Why bother to send a QSL if all your sending is a piece of paper with writing on it to acknowledge the QSO. #Although that is what a QSL Card does, it amazes me how many (supposedly) cards I get, that are nothing more then a piece of paper with writing on them (hand writing). #Again, this tends to justify why I'm going to do it electronically instead.
I'm not saying QSL Cards have to be something fancy (yeah I've got some of those also). #But at least something better then thin tissue paper would be nice. (yes I've gotten some like that also).

Please give some feed back, what do you do? #I'm currrently using postcard rates, and some standard letter rates, but I always try and use a buro whenever possible FISTS buro, or DX buro. #But still, the postage has become way to expensive.

What are you using?
What kind of money are you spending for QSL postage each year?
Can you justify the cost? #Be specific, don't just say yeah I want a card. #What are you doing with them?

I must have 10 or 12 boxes of cards from all over the world, and I'm debating with my wife right now what I should do with them. #These are card size boxes maybe 2 feet deep filled with QSL cards from around the world. #Yeah I have some special ones, but their special to me, are they to someone else? # Will I throw them away, OF COURSE NOT, but I'm just tossing out the question what good are they?

Faced with a delima, looking for oppions. #Thanks

73 - W8YRB - Rob

====================================
Added:
I've gotten some interesting responses and I appreciate everyones input. #Looking forward to some more. #It is allowing me to consider some options that I've never thought about. #The Geography Teacher was an execellent input, I'll have to look into that one as I remember the days when I was in Geography Class and learning all the different parts of the world was just fascinating to me since I was also a Ham.

Did alittle math here, let me put this in perspective for some of you that may not grasp the complexity of what I'm dealing with here.

First off I never ask for any QSL cards. #Don't have a need to collect them. #When I get a QSL card its just shows up in the mail, and I feel obligated to respond, sorry but thats just how I feel about it.

2004 ... $350 or more in Postage
Estimated cards sent ... 950 cards
(I know more were sent because of buro but this is conservative number)

2005 ... $450 or more in Postage
Estimated cards sent ... 1250 cards

2003 Cost for 2000 cards $135.00
2005 Cost for 2000 cards $152.00

Envelopes, misc junk ... say $50.00

Hopefully this help put this in perspective to you.

A card here, a card there or even say 100 cards per year thats $37.00 in post for the year.

SASE, if someone sends me a SASE I always return the SASE in an envelope with my postage instead. #Something my elmers thought me and has stayed with me ever since. #You spend a bux, I spend a bux its all fair. But now my bux is becoming more and more countable probably as much as the next person.

Thanks again for the suggestions, I'm looking forward to hearing more options.

ZL, loved your humor thanks I needed that.

73 - W8YRB - Rob

====================================
Added:
Over the years the cost of equipment (rigs, towers, rotors, etc.) continue to increase as we all know and that is the natural evolution of things. (yeah bread did cost 10 cents a loaf, and yes gas was 27 cents a gallon) but the evolution continues and prices continue to rise. #when you consider the following:

$800.00 (2 years worth of QSL postage I actually spent) for out going QSL's. #Weight the following factors:

1 each Kenwood TS480SAT . . . $900.00
1 each Icom IC746pro . . . $1,300.00
1 each Yaesu FT1000MP MK 5 . . . $2,300.00

In 2 years time I've spent the following

88% of the cost of a NEW TS480SAT
62% of the cost of a NEW IC746pro
34% of the cost of a NEW FT1000MP MK 5

I'm trying to gain perspective of how to justify these figures to myself (open the eyes for others). #When you consider the following:

1 each STEPPIR 3 element yagi . . . $1,889.00
1 each Mosley Pro57B . . . $1,055.00
1 each Hustler 4BTV Vertical . . . $139.00

42% of the price of a Steppir 3
75% of the price of a Mosley Pro57B (7 element tribander)
and finally purchasing approx 6 each Hustler 4BTV's

Ouch, where should the money be more wisely spent? #What is enough? 50 cards? 100 cards? #I guess it has to come down to personal finances, priorities, Wants/Needs and finally obligations.

I hope this information has opened the eyes alittle of the delima's you can be faced with when your putting that next QSL in the mail. #Each one of those $.37 stamps adds up... In the mean time.................

OFF TO THE POST OFFICE I GO, 73 to all.

73 - W8YRB - Rob

[AB3EO]

You asked for feedback. Here's my $0.02

1# No that is not required, QSL the first contact if requested. The dupes are not needed.
2# I send a SASE with my card domestically, I think of it as a courtesy.
3# It depends what you are trying to do. If you are going for awards, some still require the card. If you are just collecting the cards, maybe it's time to stop sending unless asked. If I need one I'll ask and tell you why. The cards themselves should be cardstock, printed, with legible data. Fancy is nice but not required.

If you check, I am a tech, so what am I QSLing. Not FM, but VHF weak-signal QSO's, satellite contacts. VUCC needs the cards, AMSAT also. Will I QSL when I get my general (I'm working on the code), probably, and using the above guidelines. International I'll use a bureau.

Good luck with your dilemma. Hope you get the answers you need.

73 KB3FGJ Rich

[w4sul]

It's a subject I think about now and then, however, I like the cards, and until "Logbook of the World" has a higher user count, I'll continue sending QSL cards.

Because I want the cards, I always provide a self addressed stamped envelope with my outgoing cards. Yes this doubles my cost, but I really do want a card, and I don't mind paying for the privilage.

I'm working on my WAS right now. I've had almost 200 contacts in the last 3 months, and not a single person I've had a QSO with is a member of Logbook of the world. I know this, because I checked the majority of them just to see.

So, yes, I'm spending about $60 a month in stamps, plus the cost of cards (I have them printed as photos at Walmart, and they look great. Plus they're cheap!) But it's worth it to me since I'm collecting cards...

[WB2LCW]

We can use LOTW and EQsl.cc for awards!

But I say there should be system so that we can create a
Qsl that can be emailed! Each E-mail qsl can be any
size up to 8.5x11 inches and up to 3 pages for special qsl's for Dx peditions so photographs can be applied with text..You can have photos of you family,antenna's ,staion ,car,etc and a text description!

E-mail is Free! No stamps ,Envelopes , IRC's or Cash for
postal people to steal!

There could be code at the bottom of each page
that is encoded with the originating call,station worked call,date,and time. this code can be used to validate
the recieved qsl..

We can store these qsls on CD's or DVD's or print the ones we want to display! we could have software like a slide show to display them on our office pc's! No more
shoe boxes!

Thats my thought on the subject!

73 Mike

[K8ERV]

If you only operate 2M VHF local, you don't have to worry about QSL cards. Have not had any cards in many years. Much mo cheaper that way.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[WW2E]

Don't throw out your QSL card collection. Divide them up and give away bundles to as many social studies teachers as you can find.

Some kids will always enter the hobby from an interest in the hardware and through the fun of operating. But others will be fascinated with the cards and take off from there.

73 de Phil WW2E

[kg4yrf]

its like fishing you can stand beside the lake or buy the boat. and they do look nice just sitting around

[zl3nb]

Hi Rob
I probably feel the same way as you do regarding QSL cards. BUT in this day and age it has become a very expensive courtesy in dishing out the cards either too or in response to those received.

Having been a Ham since 1966 (Originally as WA3GLX and now as ZL3NB) I have a ton of cards too. It's really a enjoyable part of the hobby to receive and send cards but I have had to make a few changes here due to the cost over the past few years and put a limit on how much money could go into Qsl'ing.

The Cards are not cheap to make here and if one wanted to go overseas for them thats fine but the currency changeover makes it rather expensive too so I have finally reverted to "Rolling" my own with help of my Son who is Graphic Designer and then going to a print shop with the "Card Stock" in hand and do it myself. Takes a hour of my time but the cost is nearly a quarter of what it would of been farming it out. As a ZL I receive quite a few just "Via Buro" so I go through quite a few cards in a year. For Direct unfortunately SASE and either a IRC or Green Stamp is needed (at one time it was not a issue but sorry at $2 New Zealand Dollars for Airmail postage and even a US Dollar wont cover that but I don't mind making up the difference for now).

The best answer to all of this has been LoTW and Eqsl...it's been a real winner so far since using them!

As far as what to do with the Cards???

Well Rob I know how we all enjoy our Qsl cards but there comes a day when we shall no longer exist in enjoying those nice Qsl cards and unfortunately we can not take them with as much as we would like too.

There are Qsl museums around the world I hear that will take "Shoe Boxes" of cards but dont know much about that...as for Family or radio clubs etc. Actually through my own experiences of dealing with a SK or two the cards usually end up..well either stuck on a shelf in the garage or attic or of course just thrown away.Sad but that's life mate.

I have instructed my family that when the time comes to depart this mortal coil to take my Qsl cards and put them in the coffin with me. It will help the burning process quicker when they light the match at the Crematorium and in the process save everyone alot of grief over what to do with the "Box loads" of Qsl cards...But that's me and one suggestion on disposing of....Hi Hi

73's
de Bill ZL3NB # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[k0ru]

Howdy,

I've gotten some interesting responses and I appreciate everyones input. #Looking forward to some more. #It is allowing me to consider some options that I've never thought about. #The Geography Teacher was an execellent input, I'll have to look into that one as I remember the days when I was in Geography Class and learning all the different parts of the world was just fascinating to me since I was also a Ham.

Did alittle math here, let me put this in perspective for some of you that may not grasp the complexity of what I'm dealing with here.

First off I never ask for any QSL cards. #Don't have a need to collect them. #When I get a QSL card its just shows up in the mail, and I feel obligated to respond, sorry but thats just how I feel about it.

2004 ... $350 or more in Postage
Estimated cards sent ... 950 cards
(I know more were sent because of buro but this is conservative number)

2005 ... $450 or more in Postage
Estimated cards sent ... 1250 cards

2003 Cost for 2000 cards $135.00
2005 Cost for 2000 cards $152.00

Envelopes, misc junk ... say $50.00

Hopefully this help put this in perspective to you.

A card here, a card there or even say 100 cards per year thats $37.00 in post for the year.

SASE, if someone sends me a SASE I always return the SASE in an envelope with my postage instead. #Something my elmers thought me and has stayed with me ever since. #You spend a bux, I spend a bux its all fair. But now my bux is becoming more and more countable probably as much as the next person.

Thanks again for the suggestions, I'm looking forward to hearing more options.

ZL, loved your humor thanks I needed that.

73 - W8YRB - Rob

[KF4NI]

I have been a ham for 35 yrs. and a DX'er/Ragchewer for the most part. I enjoy receiving cards from all over the world and I don't mind spending a few bucks for postage. I did a very regrettable thing a few yrs. ago when we moved--I had a bonfire and burned all my cards.
I will forever regret it and I can never replace those cards no matter how many qso's I have now and in the future. I look at cards and think back about the qso and making a new acquaintance and sometimes lasting friends. No price tag can measure that. I never ask for, and use a SASE from someone who sends me a card. however, I try to always include return postage if I ask for a card. Compare ham radio with fishing--Boat=radio,trailer=ant. system,bait=qsl'ing. Everytime you go fishing you buy bait and gas so bait=card/postage etc...
just my $.02
any hobby you choose is expensive if you really get into it.

[k0ru]

Ok, two boat theory's and I have to respond.

A boat is nothing more to me then a hole in the water you sink money into. #Been there done that... Wastefull for me. #Sorry. #I DO NOT fish, however I can understand how some of it could relate.

But there does come a time, when enough is enough how do you make the judgement? #What options do you have?

Thanks
Rob - W8YRB

[zc4ts]

I know what you mean about costs. As a "DX" station it seems like everyone wanted a card. The vast majority that sent me a card direct included an IRC or money. A lot of people included multiple dollars ($12 once) that offset the expense of the direct cards that came alone without anything for postage. I also went though the log and filled out cards for every contact to send out in bulk through the local club. I know that I ended up sending multiple cards for multiple contacts with the same station but it was easier just to move from line to line in the log and not sort by calls. Plus some stations needed cards for the 5BDXCC.
My first choice was to use eQSL and LoTW but most stations don't use them. I worked 180 countries and only have 80 confirmed on eQSL as they only count the AG cards. On LoTW I have 65 countries confirmed. As this rate I'll never get any awards for working over 100 countries. Not that I'm into awards but it just shows that most of the world doesn't use the electronic cards.
Overall it is more cost effective and better use of time to use the electronic cards. Just think of all the extra contacts I could have made if I wasn't sending out paper card through the mail.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Tom ex-ZC4TS

[AE5MH]

The cards mean as much to me as most any other certificate for operating. #There are only two people that this QSL means anything to. #That is the two parties that made it. #As far as any other form of QSL'ing it means as much as you wish to bring credit to it. #Those that forge QSLs for a certificate are just forging thier own credibility. #If they are happy with that then so be it. #

Bottom line: #From what I'm hearing it is my opinon that you might want to be more prudent with your cards! #(or operate less frequently!) #

Isn't it fun to be prosperous enough to whine about spending money "frivolously"!
Send out half as many cards next year, buy that new mobile, then next year buy one for the Salvation Army or your club!

[W9AFR]

I think this issue has come up before and lots of people have posted their comments.

I have a photo album in fact I have three different photo albums to put my QSL card into. The first album contains PSK and SSB, the second contains CW and the third contains foreign counties. But I only want one QSL card for each state per mode. In other words for the state of New York I would have one card for each mode of PSK, SSB and CW. That is a total of three cards for each state. For DX I only want one for each country and I do not care what mode I use to obtain the QSO.

So why do I want the cards. Because when I went to the ARRL to get my work all states awards they wanted to see QSL cards to confirm the contacts. The second reason is when somebody is visiting and what to know what I do with my Ham Radio I show them the cards and use that to explain what the radio is doing and how far it can reach out. When people see the cards they seem to understand what is happening.

Now when I need a state I always send a SASE. It seem to me that I am the one wanting the QSL card and since the other party paid to produce the card and really does not care if he/she gets mine, I should at least pay the return postage. If someone sends me a QSL card and request a QSL card I would them mine. I had a couple of Hams who said they did not want my SASE and would just send me a QSL card, so I did not send them a SASE. I even had one guy who returned my SASE and used his own stamp.

A note: If your contact is with a contesting station and you want a QSL card for what ever reason you will have to send a SASE. In a contest they make thousands of contacts and get lots of request for QSL cards. Therefore their postage cost would be very high and they do not in any way need your QSL card. In fact, if you look contesting stations call sign at QRZ you will find they state NO QSL CARDS WITHOUT SASE.

For foreign QSO I send the QSL card to the ARRL bureau. If I get one back OK and if not, when I contact that country again on a different station I will send them a QSL card thought the bureau. Sooner or latter I will get a QSL card from that country.

Then the last thing I do about confirming contact is upload all my contacts to the ARRL Log of the world. So if I do not send a QSL card for that contact at least it will be electrically on LoTW.

I have had a few Ham ask if I want a QSL card and if I do not need that state or mode. I would them ask them if they need mine, if they say no. Then it log it time and forget the QSL cards.

I found that most Ham will reply with a QSL card if you want/need one. My point is if you want and/or need the QSL card you will get a better response if you send a SASE with your QSL card.

W9AFR

[k6faf]

Hi,
I certainly understand your problem, I had the same.

Then I posted my qsl policy on qrz.com and that resolved some of the problem. Then I signed up at eQsl.cc, that helped some more (but not with the DXCC, if you do not have a verifiably signed and printed eqsl).
You see, I like DXing and chasing for awards, so a "live" card is necessary. So if I want the card from the DX, I send an envelope with my card, an SAE plus one or two IRC, $1.75 each (or sometimes 2-3 GS)
If I need a local card from one of the states for SE stations or a state I have not confirmed yet on a certain band, then I send an SASE and my card, because I want it.
If I receive cards via bureau, they go out via bureau twice a year.
If I receive them via mail, they get answered by mail, that's where your elmer was right. It is simple courtesy to answer a card.
If I do not need a card from the other station, I will #only qsl if asked. Everybody else can pick up their card on eQSL or LoTW, whatever they prefer.

OK, math, tells me I have a 98% reflux on my sent cards for DX #==200 cards sent so far for DXCC, 120 for WAS, 80 for IOTA (DX and local). DXCC $3 average, WAS (SASE $1 per), IOTA 50:50 dx/sase.
Let us say $900 in 3 years, because I want them for the awards.
I have a black&white bureau card 500/$35, my sent cards are made from photos, reprinted at 12 cents at Walmart online, and they come out better than many 1000/$99 outside US printers. I change the motif every 100 cards, if I want, because that's all I need at a time. And I accept to pay 120 for 1000 because they just look better. And that is also reflected in my 98% success rate.
But I have done only around 2000 qso since 1/2002. I will send qsl only to countries I need and leave it to the other hams to request, if they need my card for state, county or the fun of DX.

Sofar, never had a complaint. And for about 2000 qsos to have half a shoebox, I think is OK....and my wife does not worry about it."It's not even half a shoebox"

Regards
Hans, k6faf # ...the voice from the desert! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[K4JF]

I have been at it for a while, and also have albums. There is a company that makes photo pages that fit a 3-ring binder, and I display my cards there. I make my outgoing cards on my computer as I need them, so no printing costs (the card stock with a pre-printed design is not expensive).

I use the bureau, unless it is a new country, or I want to go direct for some other reason. I use LoTW, but still enjoy getting the envelope full of cards from the incoming bureau, and reviewing them occasionally in my albums. That, to me, is a lot of the fun of ham radio.

I'm retired, so must watch the bux, and the bureau method is quite reasonable in cost to me.

[N7XB]

Like many comments here, I empathize with Rob, but also agree with most who send domestic SASE for badly needed WAS fills.

My policy is as stated on my qrz.com page: 100% direct or buro, "AG" on www.eQSL.cc, and I upload all contest logs to LoTW.

Trust me, I have never sent SASE and/or $$$ to a JA. But if and when I finally get Wyoming on 10 meters, he will get a SASE, and I may even send it certified return receipt requested. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Another hint for VE and XE qsl's. Because 1st Class to Canada and Mexico is "only" $0.60 U.S., that happens to be one 0.37 and one 0.23 stamp (I use those for post card qsl's without envelope). I get a very good return on those with SAE, minus postage, IRC or $$$.

I keep a roll of 0.37 and 0.23 stamps, plus one sheet of 0.90 international stamps on hand. It's a cost of the hobby, and I enjoy the return on the investment.

Bruce N7XB

[n4zou]

I don’t spend any money on QSL cards. If I get a card in the mail without return postage I put it in a box. If I get a QSL card with an SASE I write confirmed on it, sign it, and return it to the sender. I use eqsl, as it's free. I don't use LoTW for several reasons. You must be a member of the ARRL to receive ARRL awards. I don't care to collect awards and I am not a member of the ARRL and it's not my problem if your chasing ARRL awards. LoTW is the ARRL attempt to copy the eqsl service as they missed the boat on electronic QSLing when they had the chance to participate and instead try to compete with eqsl. ARRL members only consist of about 20% of active US hams so LoTW will never attain substantial use by active US hams.

[KD7ALF]

Quote[/b] (WB2LCW @ Sep. 08 2005,14:32)]We can use LOTW and EQsl.cc for awards!

But I say there should be system so that we can create a
Qsl that can be emailed! Each E-mail qsl can be any
size up to 8.5x11 inches and up to 3 pages for special qsl's for Dx peditions so photographs can be applied with text..You can have photos of you family,antenna's ,staion ,car,etc and a text description!

E-mail is Free! No stamps ,Envelopes , IRC's or Cash for
postal people to steal!

There could be code at the bottom of each page
that is encoded with the originating call,station worked call,date,and time. this code can be used to validate
the recieved qsl..

We can store these qsls on CD's or DVD's or print the ones we want to display! we could have software like a slide show to display them on our office pc's! No more
shoe boxes!

Thats my thought on the subject!

73 Mike
I agree with Mike on this one. Heck, you wouldn't even need the code at the bottom, you could just create a template and fill in the contact information on the fly.
Having a good address in QRZ would also need to include an email address, but I don't see it as being a problem.

Hey Mike, Maybe we ought to put our heads together and make this happen! If you read this, send me a PM and let's collaborate!

73 to all.

Kelly ~ KD7ALF

[zl3jt]

"ARRL members only consist of about 20% of active US hams so LoTW will never attain substantial use by active US hams."
Rubbish! Anyone can join LotW at no cost, no membership of ARRL is required. Participants can upload logs and receive "credits" for contact which match other logs... it is not a QSL card, or indeed a QSL courtesy. Read the FAQ on the LotW webpage #Sir!
In answer to the original question. The bureau was invented long ago to reduce individual costs in this hobby, so why not use it. Make an appropriate entry on your qrz.com address page "QSL via the Bureau please"
73
de Jungle Telegraph

[V73NS]

Quote[/b] ]If you only operate 2M VHF local, you don't have to worry about QSL cards. Have not had any cards in many years. Much mo cheaper that way.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo


YAWN

Get out of the fishbowl!

[ab8td]

Hello. #My name is Bob, and I'm a QSL abuser. . . .

If you are collecting cards specifically for awards then you should look into a group like the 3905 Century Club or OMISS that runs their own QSL bureau. #Of course they are only good for QSOs on their nets, so the fly-by Idahos still need to go direct. (www.3905ccn.com, or www.omiss.net).

You can fit about 10 cards or so in the first ounce of postge (it depends on how heavy the stock is) #And the second ounce is only 0.23. #Unlike the international bureaus, the turn around is typically 1-2 months, not 1-2 years.

In just over 1 year on the 3905 CCN, I've sent 1,635 and recieved 1,288 QSL cards (Lag. #Most come back in 1-2 mos. #I make several contacts a day, so at any given time I have about 200 cards out. #Accounting for that, this is about a 90% return rate.)

With postage, envelopes, and cost of cards*, that would have been about would have been $800 without SASE, and $1200 with. #I don't have exact records, but I estimate I send 2, 2 oz. packets to the bureau (postage both ways to cover return envelopes), and average 4 directs per week. #Over the 54 weeks I've been on that's only $300 WITH SASES on most directs. #A far cry from $1200.

* I ordered full color, custom QSLs but left the backs blank. #I laser print all the QSO info on the back. #For dupes/multiple QSOs I just print the back info on a piece of 65 lb. stock. (0.15 per card for my full card, about 0.03 for dupes). #And I get to make special backs comemerating special mobile trips etc. . . #

AB8TD

[ad4aa]

Rob,
I agree the cost is getting bad, and will get worse with an increase of postage soon expected. Myself I qsl anyone who sends me a card and I will send their envelope back to them. In the U S, I won't send a card to someone who ask for sase. If I can send them a cardthey should do likewise for me. There are some circumstances I will send a sase, but I have talked with the operator and know what's going on. AS for dx all my cards go thru a buro, except a new country I need or a new contry on a new band. I keep good records and send out repeat contacts only to dx I know who has sent me a qsls. I will say this alot of dx operators who I've sent cards to as of today have still not sent a card in return 5yrs. Iput my log on Eqsl and LOTW, but like you as few operators using LOTW, my ratio for return is almost nothing. But I've been biten by the bug and as long as I can I continue to send paper qsls.
Good Luck
Jimmy http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif AD4AA

[aa1mn]

[B]One card per contact is certainly enough. In fact, I limit QSLs to contacts that hold a special significance to me ... a particulary interesting person, area of the world, or conversation.

I don't use self-addressed stamped envelopes myself unless the person I've contacted explicitly requests one. The reasoning on this is that if the person I'm QSLing considers the reply important enough they'll reply with or without a SASE.

Handwritten cards do add a certain personal flavor to a QSL while the "fancy" ones are intriguing in the regards as to the time and effort an individual put into make it look "professional". So either flavor is fine by me.

Judging by your profile it seems you've made the decision to limit QSLs to electronic replies. However, please remember that not all amateurs have easy access to computers or email and even some of those that do may not be comfortable with computers. Because of this, I'd like to suggest that maybe QSLing hard copies be limited to a certain number per year (25, 50, or whatever comfortable with) that are, as mentioned above, meet a critiea of what is a 'interesting' contact to you.

Let me know what your view of this is, if you'd like.

Chuck, AA1MN

[n4zou]

Quote[/b] (zl3jt @ Sep. 08 2005,22:58)]"ARRL members only consist of about 20% of active US hams so LoTW will never attain substantial use by active US hams."
Rubbish! Anyone can join LotW at no cost, no membership of ARRL is required. Participants can upload logs and receive "credits" for contact which match other logs... it is not a QSL card, or indeed a QSL courtesy. Read the FAQ on the LotW webpage Sir!
In answer to the original question. The bureau was invented long ago to reduce individual costs in this hobby, so why not use it. Make an appropriate entry on your qrz.com address page "QSL via the Bureau please"
73
de Jungle Telegraph
Why should I sign up for LoTW? I do not care to receive "credits" which cost 25 cents each and are worth nothing to me as I am not in the ARRL. Lets do this, send me information on an ARRL award that I can receive without paying for "credits" and dues to the ARRL and paying a "service" charge to receive. LoTW will have been in operation 2 years as of September 15 2005. It still lags behind the eqsl.cc return rate so it's obvious that it will never be used by a substantial number of hams. I do not use a Bureau, as this would also incur postage costs. I simply do not care about collecting "paper". The only reason I use eqsl.cc is it's free of fees and no exceedingly complex signup "headaches". Note the cost of LoTW in the link below.
https://p1k.arrl.org/lotw/fees
It's all about the money!

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (n4zou @ Sep. 09 2005,05:55)]Quote[/b] (zl3jt @ Sep. 08 2005,22:58)]"ARRL members only consist of about 20% of active US hams so LoTW will never attain substantial use by active US hams."
Rubbish! Anyone can join LotW at no cost, no membership of ARRL is required. Participants can upload logs and receive "credits" for contact which match other logs... it is not a QSL card, or indeed a QSL courtesy. Read the FAQ on the LotW webpage #Sir!
In answer to the original question. The bureau was invented long ago to reduce individual costs in this hobby, so why not use it. Make an appropriate entry on your qrz.com address page "QSL via the Bureau please"
73
de Jungle Telegraph
Why should I sign up for LoTW? I do not care to receive "credits" which cost 25 cents each and are worth nothing to me as I am not in the ARRL. Lets do this, send me information on an ARRL award that I can receive without paying for "credits" and dues to the ARRL and paying a "service" charge to receive. LoTW will have been in operation 2 years as of September 15 2005. It still lags behind the eqsl.cc return rate so it's obvious that it will never be used by a substantial number of hams. I do not use a Bureau, as this would also incur postage costs. I simply do not care about collecting "paper". The only reason I use eqsl.cc is it's free of fees and no exceedingly complex signup "headaches". Note the cost of LoTW in the link below.
https://p1k.arrl.org/lotw/fees
It's all about the money!
The reason you should sign up for LoTW is so that others needing confirmation of a QSO with you can receive it. Most of the big contest stations and DXpeditions have signed up for this exact reason. They certainly do not need the credits or cards in the vast majority of cases.

There are very, very few awards you can get for free. Most have a fee for processing your request, printing the certificate and mailing it back out to you. The ARRL Awards program is hardly a profit center. Heck, even on eQSL you cannot get an award without being at least a bronze member at the time of the award request == $$.

BTW, my return rate on LoTW is higher than eQSL with 10,000+ QSOs uploaded to both.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[k0ru]

Alot of great ideas, some I wish I knew about say 35 years ago hi hi.

Couple of comments:

AB8TD: Actually 54 weeks, $300 your running close to what my total was for 2004, I spent $350.00 just in postage for 2004. #And for 2005 (as of September) I'm at $450.00 and climbing. # When does it stop? #And as I stated in the original message I always take advantage of the Buro, FISTS Club, County Hunters etc. for QSL Bulk, but of course that is not all that common. #Most of the time the Card just shows up in the mail direct.

AA1MN: #I will always respond to a QSL SASE, that is appropriate. #However by placing Electronic QSL of some sort on my BIO will hopefully get some folks to realize I will only respond with some sort of electronic means. #Will this work? #Heck I don't know, but I'm going to try to make it perfectly clear that Electronic QSL is the direction I'm heading.

Hopefully this has created some interest in those of you that do QSL allot like myself. #If your doing 100 or 200 or even 500 cards a year then most likely that is NO BIG DEAL to you. #But to justify to myself and wife to spend $450 plus dollar in postage for QSL mailing is coming to an end.

I've read many articles on DX-peditions that run 10,000 to 20,000 cards, some thru managers, and some thru direct only to listen to the cries of the cost of such postage it boggles the mind to realize say pushing out 10,000 QSL Cards even at a Bulk 13 cent (.13) rate push upward of $1,300.00 to $2.600.00 just in postage alone.

I'm not a paper chaser, award chaser, or anything of that nature, I simply enjoy ragchewing and chasing DX for the thrill, not the card. #I don't need to prove to anyone other then myself I've made the contact is the way I perceive it. #Others like the awards, and the paper and that is great as well and good luck to them with their interest.

[ne3r]

Quote[/b] (K8ERV @ Sep. 08 2005,15:38)]If you only operate 2M VHF local, you don't have to worry about QSL cards. Have not had any cards in many years. Much mo cheaper that way.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
I typically operate 2 meter simplex and I send QSL cards. I didn't at first, but I was asked if I could send a QSL card to someone who was trying to collect all counties in Maryland and I was his first from my county. I have actually received several QSL cards from others I've QSO'd with on 2 meter simplex.

My QSL cards are very generic, just white cards with black lettering. I went cheap because I was out of work when I got them. I typically just use a 23 cent stamp and address the back of the card like a post card. When I design and have printed a nicer card, I’ll probably use an envelope.

If money is an issue, I’ll probably back off sending QSL cards to every contact, and sending only to those who send a card to me or request a card from me, if things get worse, only those who specifically request a card. If I can’t afford to QSL, I won’t. But I really like getting the cards, so, I’d like to give other hams the same joy.

As for SASE, I don’t know, I was thinking about sending them with my longer distance contacts and those on the satellite, but I haven’t started yet. That will really add to the cost. If anyone requested an SASE, I’d certainly send one.

73
Joe
N3PAQ

[K8SOR]

Rob,
I agree with you---the postage and price of cards is getting out of hand. I've received some fantastic cards via EQSL---just print them out and hang them up.
As for your boxes of old cards---put them on Ebay---someone will buy them, why I could never understand----why would anyone want a card with someone elses call on it? Anyway that"s my 2 cents ( In 1960 when I was first licensed, it cost 3 cents to mail a card).

[k6inm]

Most interesting exchange of ideas. I have been a ham for over 50 years and still have most of the cards I have received. I send out a bit over 1000 cards a year - all to cw operators I have worked. I've never figured the cost, but whatever it is, it's part of being a ham and extending a courtesy to the fine people I have met on the air. Since I've retired, I have to think a little more about the cost, but as long as I can afford to, I will send QSL cards. I've had a little second hand experience with those who work at the incoming QSL bureaus and I understand that there are a large number of unclaimed cards that have to be thrown out each year. I find this a great discourtesy to DX hams who are spending their money to send these cards. I wish more hams would at the very least respond to those who have sent cards to them. As for lotw - phooey. Who cares if you down load your log to the ARRL, unless your a paper chaser - then more power to you. When they told me I had to renew each year, I decided that I would no longer participate in that program. eQSL is cool, especially those hams who bother to design theor own cards. I count them just as valuable as paper cards (almost) and mount them in my albums where I keep all my cards. When my good friend passed away, I tookthe cards from his first 100 countries and mounted them in an album to help me remember our years of friendship. Jack, K6INM

[n9yb]

If you wish to get rid of your old QSL cards, send them here:


QSL Museum (http://www.qsl.at/english/en_main.html)

[WA1SCI]

I really enjoy collecting high quality QSLs, but that's just me. If you don't want to send one back, that's up to you. Like CW, QSLs are a great tradition of ham radio.

[ab8ma]

Robert ( YRB ) - if you want to cut down on qsl requests and the costs of the replies, try taking the image of your QSL card off of QRZ. I will bet that a lot of folks you have had qso's with would look you up here, and way "nice card - I want it in my collection".

[k0ru]

Hey Bob - AB8MA

Good idea, although I think that would be somewhat stupid of someone to ASSUME that is the card they would get. #That is an old card I used back in the late 90's.

Check my address you will notice I'm in Gardner, KS. The Mackinaw Bridge is no where to be found here.

But I do understand your point and will give it some consideration. #Maybe I'll just make up a nice photo of the shack and my dog, then maybe they think they would get that card. #Don't know, if that is the assumption, then that would be a big mistake when they opened the envelope and found a RED PRINT on WHITE CARD of KANSAS with info.

Hmmm, I can't think for everyone I guess.

Thanks
Rob - W8YRB

[ac7dx]

I am a QSL manager and have been for sometime. I handle DX and stateside stations.
All I need from a station is 100-1000 cards and logs sent to me in ADIF and updated once per month. I want NO money from you.I have been in ham radio since 1954 and I have taken a lot from Ham radio...this is my way of paying forward.
Contact me if you are interested
ac7dx@yahoo.com

Very73 from Oregon
Ron

[W6XTC]

Personally I do not mind sending QSL cards, irrespective of the postage, (I may change my mind when I retire from work), and I really look forward to receiving them.

When requesting a card, I always include, my QSL card and either a SASE for stateside contacts, or a return envelope and IRC (s) for international.

So my one little annoyance is while I receive return cards 100% from stateside stations, and some International stations (QSL managers in particular). My responses from sending direct to International stations has been somewhat disappointing. I would say approx 45%.

Therefore my question, when sending direct to International stations, is the IRC the best way to go? Or are the cards just getting lost in the mail?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

I wonder if anyone else has similar experiences.

73 de W6XTC

[kj5t]

Here is my .37 cent worth.

Quote[/b] ]#2... SASE, hmmm why send a SASE to a Local (USA) ham? I never use a SASE to respond to a QSL, that just doesn't feel proper edequte (spelling) to me. Oh yeah it could have saved me alittle in postage (10 to 20.00) but again, that just doesn't seem appropriate.

I send an SASE if I want a card back, and if someone sends me an SASE I assume they really want a card back and I reply ASAP though I reply to all cards (expect some from the DX buro in which I did not have addresses) BUT I like the SASE because it is much faster. So I spend the extra money on some cards.

Quote[/b] ]#3...Why bother to send a QSL if all your sending is a piece of paper with writing on it to acknowledge the QSO. Although that is what a QSL Card does, it amazes me how many (supposedly) cards I get, that are nothing more then a piece of paper with writing on them (hand writing). Again, this tends to justify why I'm going to do it electronically instead.
I'm not saying QSL Cards have to be something fancy (yeah I've got some of those also). But at least something better then thin tissue paper would be nice. (yes I've gotten some like that also).

Somtimes for awards writing on a piece of paper can count as a confirmation of the contact. Though I would much rather get a QSL card in the mail. I am currently using some cards that I made myself on cardstock, though they are not very good. I will be ordering some new QSL cards soon, and from now on I will get my QSL cards ordered. The picture on the front is one that I took, and the font color on front is my choice. I belive there is a certain art with QSLing, and it is interesting to get cards from around the world I have a box of cards myself, and it keeps growing. Certain cards are on display, and one of these days I would like to have room to display many more cards. Certainly the cool DX cards that I have gotten.

Postage is expensive, but it is not going to stop. They were talking about raising the price of postage. As others have said that is part of the hobby and I am proud to get the cards in return. This is a topic that keeps coming up because if you think about it we are spending so much money on other thigns. With gas prices going up the cost of living is going up. Spending $800 in two years on sending QSL cards is a lot of money, but for many it is well worth it.

[k5jyd]

For those still in the qsl collecting stage the postage is a bigger problem than I would have thought.I can not conceive of spending hundreds of dollars a year on postage. As a causal amateur I may send out a dozen cards a year, maybe not but then again I already have was on cw, dxcc etc.Its a real pleasure to be the twilight of my amateur career when an occasional rag chew on cw satisfies the ham radio urge and I am no longer tempted by the legions of certificates and awards out there in radio land.Now, where did I sit that coffee cup and I think I hear a cq on the low end of 20 meters.
w5wlb
ootc

[k5vpc]

Quote[/b] (W8YRB @ Sep. 08 2005,11:38)]About your QSL card.
Hi Rob,

This reply is out of the subject.
How come do you use a picture from MI, and you live in KS? ...just curious! :-)

...by the way, I spent almost a year in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (KG4PC), and I had to request SASE. No way I could afford to reply every QSL card I received from all the contacts I made from GTMO.

73 and God bless!

Jorge - N0VPC
Crocker, MO

[k0ru]

Hey Jorge - N0VPC

I use the 8 land pic, because #1 I spent alot of money for the graphics design, and I believe it portrays my 8 land call history and the amateur equipment layout very nicely. # Had it be a Card, or any other photo actually is irrelavent since that is not the purpose of the BIO Photo posting. #I'm proud of my 8 land heritage, and the layout of the card but then again its probably time to change it to something else. #

Back to the original subject however, the cost has caused me alot of grief over the past 2 years mainly when you consider gas prices increasing, other cost increasing etc.

Over the years the cost of equipment (rigs, towers, rotors, etc.) continue to increase as we all know and that is the natural evolution of things. (yeah bread did cost 10 cents a loaf, and yes gas was 27 cents a gallon) but the evolution continues and prices continue to rise. #when you consider the following:

$800.00 (2 years worth of QSL postage I actually spent) for out going QSL's. #Weight the following factors:

1 each Kenwood TS480SAT . . . $900.00
1 each Icom IC746pro . . . $1,300.00
1 each Yaesu FT1000MP MK 5 . . . $2,300.00

In 2 years time I've spent the following

88% of the cost of a NEW TS480SAT
62% of the cost of a NEW IC746pro
34% of the cost of a NEW FT1000MP MK 5

I'm trying to gain perspective of how to justify these figures to myself (open the eyes for others). #When you consider the following:

1 each STEPPIR 3 element yagi . . . $1,889.00
1 each Mosley Pro57B . . . $1,055.00
1 each Hustler 4BTV Vertical . . . $139.00

42% of the price of a Steppir 3
75% of the price of a Mosley Pro57B (7 element tribander)
and finally purchasing approx 6 each Hustler 4BTV's

Ouch, where should the money be more wisely spent? #What is enough? 50 cards? 100 cards? #I guess it has to come down to personal finances, priorities, Wants/Needs and finally obligations.

I hope this information has opened the eyes alittle of the delima's you can be faced with when your putting that next QSL in the mail. #Each one of those $.37 stamps adds up...

Thanks for everyone's input, allot will be useful in my decission process, and I hope some of the feedback has been helpful for others as well.

73 - W8YRB - Rob

[ab0ox]

Rob,

The first thing you might want to do is to get your cards printed on heavier stock, so that you can use postcard stamps instead of letter stamps and envelopes. #

I mean really. #For all you know, the other ham is actually a stamp collector and uses your cards as coasters. #Or leaves them in the postcard racks near that famous bridge in Kansas that you live next to. #It must be a heck of sight sweeping over the plains, as it does.

Again, as a CW man, try working more often in the Novice bands. #You're maybe a little more likely to get an SASE out of someone in the Novice bands. #We all know how important those first contacts are.

I got my RCC from WB9RED while wandering around Lost in the Novice Horse Latitudes. #As I recall, it took me the full 30 minutes just to pound out "Kenwood TS2000 with a 40 meter dipole shaped like a letter W, which goes from the top of the sliding glass doors to the corners of the wooden patio fence and then droops back along the sides". #

No explanation needed for that.

One thing that I do is to try to be particularly unsuccessful in contesting. #Aim for an hour or two at most -- focused on DX contests. #That way you can use the Burro. #Or for less than 30 cards, the Burrito.

You may consider joining DARC or RSGB so you can use their Burro to send things back this direction. #If it takes a year to get a card from Kansas to Nebraska, the last thing anyone's going to do is blame the Royal Mail.

73,

Jack

[K4JF]

I guess that is another advantage of living in beautiful Upstate South Carolina. There are evidently so many hams here that I rarely get a request for a QSL! Just too many of us to make it a valuable card, so my QSL costs are quite low. :o)

[w3mz]

A contact with a new country, I send direct w/sase. If a card is requested, I send direct. Everything else goes via bureau. There is also an "intermediate" method through W5YI (I think that's correct) that is faster than the regular bureau and costs $1 per 4 cards. So you can sort your cards according to their importance, either to you or the other Ham, determine if you need it right now or if it can wait a month, or a year with ARRL bureau, and keep your costs manageable. Also I never use IRCs, green stamps are good anywhere and are worth more than a $1.75 IRC. William Plum (plumdx@msn.com) also sells envelopes and stamps for many countries, often the stamps are less than the equivalent green stamps for a particular country and you are sending a true SASE. His envelopes fit the larger european QSL cards without folding as well!

I find this varied method of QSLing to be pretty reasonable. QSLs from say 25 different countries for the price of a round of golf is a bargain in my book.
73 All, Mike w3mz

[KT3A]

Rob,

A QSL is like a photograph from a vacation or family reunion. It is a paper reminder of the QSO. I love getting them although I do use eQSL and LotW as well. May I suggest using the ARRL incoming QSL bureau and if you are a CW op, FISTS has an outstanding bureau for the members. Both are staffed by volunteers who love QSLs.
You can save a boatload of money by using these two means instead of doing the direct thing. Rumor out there is that postage will increase next year!

Cam, kt3a (ARRL QSL Bureau sorter)

[K6SRZ]

I do a lot of contests where I make >1000 QSOs in the course of a weekend and an occasional DXpedition. I answer all requests with a SASE, but I can't afford the time or $ to answer requests that don't include postage. Conversely, if I want a card I *always* send a SASE or green stamps.

Can anyone use the FIST's bureau? We really need a domestic bureau!

[W2AYY]

Like many who now live on a fixed income I was overwhelmed by the cost in my first year as a Ham. I wanted to so much take part in that part of the hobby, but I can not. The money is just not there.

I did get a lot of eQSL card and really enjoyed see the different places. I know you can not use them for some awards but I would rather have the eCards and no awards then no cards at all. Why is it that some organizations can see that some people just can't afford the postage? I would still like to earn a DX or WAS award but not if I have to spend hundreds of dollars in postage. Something should be worked out to help in this part of the hobby. I guess until something happens I will just use eQSL cards and forget about the ARRL type awards.

[n2ljd]

Blunt honesty:
I don't give a ___(expletive of choice) about awards, etc. I am a 'hobbyist.' That said, I QSL 100%. I write 'em, I hope they write back. My 'rate of return' is 100% CW about 25% ssb.

I'm old-fashioned; someone cares enough to talk to me, I care enough to provide 'the final courtesy of the QSO, the QSL card.'

73

Joe

[g8vhb]

Hi Rob.

There are a number of ways that we can all cut the cost of QSLing. :-)

I am a member of the International Shortwave League. http://www.iswl.org.uk/ I use the ISWL QSL Buro because the Buro Manager sends my incoming cards and the cards for the stations I act as QSL manager for, to me, free of all postage costs. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I send outgoing cards to the ISWL Buro twice a year as a large package with maybe 500+ cards. The ISWL also covers broadcast station QSLing, Aircraft band listening and many other facets of the hobby. Plus a monthly magazine called Monitor. We even have our own nets for members several times a week.

I use electronic QSL cards as far as possible. All outgoing electronic cards are an automated process from my G0CUZ electronic logbook. Even my fully functional logbook is free and can be downloaded from http://www.winlog32.co.uk/ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

If I get a card in the post with an IRC and an envelope or a postage pre-paid envelope I return the card the same way. :-)

I use the incoming IRC's for collecting the cards I want when I send direct. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

If I get a card without an IRC I send a card in return via the buro.

Here is a tip: If you need a specific card and the operator does not QSL. Make him a QSL card on a blank postcard - with all the details on the card. Ask him to endorse the card and to send it back as a postcard. Then you even have proof for the card with a stamp and postmark. I have a 100% QSLing record doing this. :-)

I use the df3cb BV7 program to print out QSL card labels. This reduces the number of cards sent with up to 5 different contacts on different bands all on the one label. :-)

BV7 does all the sorting of the QSO's. You can download the software from here. http://www.df3cb.com/bv/bvfeatures.html

QSL cards are a joy to get, my shack wall is covered in them. Many are memorable contacts but all were good fun.

73 Mike G8VHB

[KB3JKU]

I myself think QSL cards are great, perhaps that's just because I like getting them in the mail, who knows.

One of the many purposes for them (as many if not all of us well know) are for earning awards. #This is one of the main reasons I keep sending them and keep hoping to get them.

I understand the cost involved and how it can "grow" to an outrageous amount. #Here are some of the things I do to cut down on costs, granted not all HAMs think this is a good idea but it works for me.

Print your own QSL cards. #

I went out and purchased a retail program, Print Shop or something similar and created my own card. #This allows me to simply buy a good paper stock and print them as needed. #It also allows you to update your information or other things of importance on the fly.

Skip the SASE if it’s a “local” contact.

Granted not all HAMs are happy when they get a QSL and there’s no SASE included. #$0.37 won’t break anyone, and it helps to keep overall costs down. #

Only send QSL on the 1st contact.

I send a QSL on the 1st and only the 1st contact. #Unless the HAM on the other end asks for another (i.e. #Needs one for a special contest, etc)

There are many things you can do to reduce costs. #Many tips and hints were given in previous posts (and I didn’t read them all). #Read and go with what you think is best. #My $0.02.

73’s

Matt
KB3JKU
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (KB3JKU @ Sep. 10 2005,07:57)]Print your own QSL cards. #

I went out and purchased a retail program, Print Shop or something similar and created my own card. #This allows me to simply buy a good paper stock and print them as needed. #It also allows you to update your information or other things of importance on the fly.
You don't even need to go to that expense. I use MSWord, which probably came on your computer. It will do anything PrintShop will do and then some.

[va3win]

Just as an adjunct to W8YRB-Rob's posting, I would like to clarify why I have never used the SASE method.

It is simply because we, here in Canada, have Canadian postage stamps! Where else would I be able to purchase American postage stamps but in America!! I do not think I can envision my travelling at least 3 1/2 hours to the American border after having applied for a passport (now being legislated) just to buy American postage stamps.

E-mail is good enough for me and if I cannot get a handle on the contact's e-mail address, then I am sorry. I will just have to say that I enjoyed the contact and God bless.

73 de VA3WIN-Jim

[k3wq]

Rob,

I suggest setting higher standards for sending. Perhaps you could limit your outgoing QSLs to replys or those stations with which you had a long, enjoyable QSO.

In my case, I almost always send a QSL. On the other hand, I’m not so active that postage costs are out of hand. In any case, here are my answers to your questions:

Q1: Why do people send a QSL card for each and every contact they have with you?
A1: I don’t, at least not intentionally.

Q2: SASE, hmmm why send a SASE to a Local (USA) ham?
A2: I don’t, unless I really need the reply QSL for an award. Most of the time I send them as postcards. Despite what others have said about the US and Canadian postal services, postcard QSLs almost always arrive at my house intact and readable.

Q3: Why bother to send a QSL if all you’re sending is a piece of paper with writing on it to acknowledge the QSO?
A3: Well, I just like getting QSL cards! I assume others do as well.

-Dave, K3WQ

[KH2D]

Why do people send a QSL card for each and every contact they have with you?

Some people actually believe that a QSL is the "final courtesy of a QSO", a rumor that was started years ago.

Hams in Japan, for example, seem to send a QSL for every contact they make because they feel it's mandatory. Sit down at the end of the month, generate a card for every contact in the log, and dump them into the bureau system...

I think what we all should remember is that some hams are interested in QSL cards and awards, and some are not. QSL's would be better received if some thought was applied when sending them. If you need a card for your award, then you should supply some return postage - i.e., you should pay for your awards. If you don't need a return card, don't send one.

I remember the first station in Japan I worked from the east coast of the U.S. in the 1970's; it was fascinating to receive his card in an envelope covered with Japanese stamps. After 16 years in Guam, and 16,000 QSL cards via the bureau from Japan, the fascination flew right out of the window....

SASE, hmmm why send a SASE to a Local (USA) ham?

Because if you want an award, you should pay for it yourself and not expect somebody else to pay the bill, rather than assuming that the guy on the other end is still fascinated by QSLs.

73, Jim KH2D

[KB5DPE]

That's like saying, "I bought a multi-thousand dollar bag of golf clubs, but I can't afford the golf balls". #Think about it! SASE? TRADITION!!! You pay to send me YOUR card, I pay to send YOU MY card. What could be fairer? Postage can't be much different going either direction. Things were a lot fairer and more rational in times past; like the philosophy, "if I can't afford to do it, I won't". If you can't afford to send a thousand QSL's, don't make a thousand contacts!!! SIMPLE. My policy: I talk to you, you want a QSL, I send QSL; no SASE, no you send one, too, or first. That's the Ham Radio I grew up with in the early 60's.

[wq2n]

Great topic...My age here is 14 and just got into the hobby recently also. I don't like to QSL loTW or E-QSL unless I get a response for them to reply from E-QSL. I love to recieve all the other QSL Cards from around the world, but with postage going up in different places and I need them confirmed for new country I have to wait a while. I think that all the cards for every contact should go through the bureau makes life alot easier and saves alot of money in the process. Every single Ham should be in the bureau makes it easier. For me since I don't have a job yet, I spend pretty much most of my money just to recieve QSL Cards from rare places. Rob if I were you I would just QSL for direct contacts just with some pocket change or some loose change. I appreciate the people that send SAE with return postage, but I don't think thats fair to me. I have spent about 30$ so far just for DX contacts so far not counting US contacts.

73 de Paul Kc2NmZ

[NF2C]

I too enjoy QSLs like most here, and if I really need one I send an SASE or a green stamp.....On occasion I will just send a card with no SASE to say thanks for the enjoyable QSO and if I get a card back that's great, if not I understand.....I do suggest that if you choose not to QSL, by any method, that you post it here on QRZ under your QSL info or any other call lookup site.....I am surprised that some don't respond even with a SASE....Maybe a refined E QSL system is the way to go....Till then, I will continue to mail cards and surely will respond to all that come my way....
73, Chris NF2C http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[k0ru]

Howdy, here is something interesting...

Every person up to this point (55) counting myself consider the following.

Each person sends a QSL card to every person that has posted to this so far. #That means you would send out 54 QSL cards @ .37 cents per card = $19.98

.37 cents x 54 people (you don't send one to yourself) = $19.98
54 cards x 54 people = 2,916 cards would be mailed total
2,916 x .37 = $1,078.92

Interesting facts...

Rob - W8YRB - 73

[ki5xp]

Quote[/b] (W9AFR @ Sep. 08 2005,20:28)]Now when I need a state I always send a SASE. #It seem to me that I am the one wanting the QSL card and since the other party paid to produce the card and really does not care if he/she gets mine, I should at least pay the return postage. #If someone sends me a QSL card and request a QSL card I would them mine. #I had a couple of Hams who said they did not want my SASE and would just send me a QSL card, so I did not send them a SASE. #I even had one guy who returned my SASE and used his own stamp. #

A note: #If your contact is with a contesting station and you want a QSL card for what ever reason you will have to send a SASE. #In a contest they make thousands of contacts and get lots of request for QSL cards. #Therefore their postage cost would be very high and they do not in any way need your QSL card. #In fact, if you look contesting stations call sign at QRZ you will find they state NO QSL CARDS WITHOUT SASE.

W9AFR
I couldnt have said it better myself. #Ironically, before reading this article and after checking the mail today, I received yet another duplicate stateside qsl request from a station worked during a contest without an SASE. I immediately updated my QRZ.com information to state emphatically, that if you work me during a contest and you're stateside and you want a QSL, SASE is the ONLY way you'll get a reply. #

During a contest I will have over 2000 qso's, yet I am not chasing any stateside awards. #Therefore I actually dont require QSL's from stateside contacts. #However, if someone really wants Louisiana or Lafayette for an award, and they've taken the time to include an SASE, I will IMMEDIATELY send a reply card. #

Same goes for DX, however DX has an advantage. #Buro! #If a DX station sends a card with an envelope and a buck or two or whatever, they'll immediately get a reply direct. #If they sent via the buro, Im currently in the process of importing and cataloging all contest qsl's and printing labels for buro replies.

It may be against old school ham radio conventions to not send a reply qsl to anyone who sends and requests one, but Im certainly not going to shoulder the burden of 15,000 qso's who desire to have a card from me. #

And as a final note, for those that want to preserve their contact as a treasured moment in their life should NOT stick a stamp on the back of the qsl card and mail it that way. #I know that envelopes cost about a third the price you paid for the stamp on the back, but the card also doesnt get mangled as it does if you just mail it like a postcard. #I certainly wouldnt wrap an Icom 756Pro3 in newspaper and send it via the mail, why would you do this to this treasured qsl card?

[ab8td]

Quote[/b] (W8YRB @ Sep. 09 2005,08:14)]Couple of comments:

AB8TD: Actually 54 weeks, $300 your running close to what my total was for 2004, I spent $350.00 just in postage for 2004. #And for 2005 (as of September) I'm at $450.00 and climbing. # When does it stop? #And as I stated in the original message I always take advantage of the Buro, FISTS Club, County Hunters etc. for QSL Bulk, but of course that is not all that common. #Most of the time the Card just shows up in the mail direct.
Yes, but that was for _1600_ QSL's sent! How many did you send for your $350? Prorate as appropriate.

AB8TD

[KH2D]

My policy: #I talk to you, you want a QSL, I send QSL; no SASE, no you send one, too, or first. #That's the Ham Radio I grew up with in the early 60's.

The 60's are over. But some days I think a lot of hams don't realize that :-)

Your idea sounds simple, but here's the problem - I don't want a QSL, from you or anyone else, because when somebody sends me one, after I answer it, it goes in the garbage. I really feel it's a waste of money for people to print expensive picture QSL's so I can give them to the garbage man. I have one QSL card in my collection - from the first contact that I made when I got licensed - even my first JA card eventually made it to the dump.

In the 70's, when I got into ham radio, I was interested in the technology and interested in talking to other hams around the world, but I never did get interested in collecting cards or running to the post office.

Your idea of staying off the air is already being used; I know several hams in Guam who finally did just that because the QSL job got to be a problem and an expense they couldn't deal with. If the guys in Guam only got QSL's from other people who REALLY needed one in return, they might be still be on the air. So I think the mentality that we MUST send cards to each other needs to change.

Anybody that's sorted cards for a bureau knows what a one pound green envelope full of cards from the JARL looks like. I used to open them and find 50 cards from a JA ham for 6 or 8 guys in Guam - all for 15 meter SSB contacts. Did the guy in Japan really want or need fifty KH2 QSL's for 15 meter SSB? I doubt it, but somebody told him he was required to QSL every contact he made, so he did...

As I said before, QSL's are fine for those hams that are interested in that option of ham radio. I'm not, and I know a bunch of other people who aren't either. It's not a good idea to assume that everybody you talk to on radio is interested.

That's like saying I bought a thousand dollar set of golf clubs, but if you want to play golf with me you'll have to buy your own clubs, I'm not going to buy you a set too :-)

I think what most hams miss is that geography dictates how many QSL cards you are going to be expected to answer; they never put themselves in the other guys QTH. A ham in Delaware will get a whole bunch more cards from people looking for a WAS award then a guy in California will. Most stateside hams probably order three hundred cards, or maybe a thousand from a printer. Most guys in KH2 that were active on the radio when I was there were ordering five or ten thousand at a time. For every hundred contacts a W6 makes, he may get a request for 3 cards - for every hundred contacts a KH2 station makes, he may get requests for 99 cards.

If a ham in Guam wants to work 2,000 people in a contest, it's nuts to expect him to buy $740 worth of stamps (if they all are stateside) or $1600 worth of stamps (it they are all in other countries). And it's a bit time consuming to address 2,000 envelopes too :-)

73, Jim KH2D

[n8ary]

I send a SASE if I want a response, but don't if I am simply sending a QSL as a courtesy. I am not that active, so I can't compare my 5 qsl's a year to your hundred.

An e-mail scan could be an informal way to qsl if you aren't using the cards for proof in a contest or award. I would be happy with that.

I wonder if QRZ could set up a way to exchange electronic QSL cards with the QRZ message system.

[k0ru]

Throwing away QSL cards is not an option, nor did I ever say it was. #That would be like throwing away my most memorable paintings of my Ham Radio life. #QSL Cards in in some ways like a Painting of time to me of my contacts over the life time.

What I'm looking for , and probably didn't make clear enough is what are the people doing with them besides putting them in boxes and setting them in the closet somewhere.

One commented they used those fold up/down plastic hangers. #I have those as well and I think they are UGLY when hanging on the wall. #What I'm interested in, is another way of displaying them.

I'm building a new radio room, and I would love to have some way to showcase the QSL cards PROFESSIONALLY or at least pleasing to the eye and the (XYL). # I may not be able to put all of them up, I can pick and choose thats fine.

I just received a Personal Email direct, regarding the QSL. #It was very heart felt, and touching. #I truely do enjoy receiving the QSL Cards, and sending them. #I have some special ones (Apollo launches, Skylab, Columbia, Challenger, Atlanta, MIR missions etc.) and they all are very special to me.

My concern is the rising cost of postage, would electronic means of QSL'ing be possible and acceptable? #I've used ACROBAT PDF program to compile a QSL, and fill it out. #Place a Signiture code on it so it could not be altered. #This can be easily done, and businesses use it every day for doing invoicing, quotes, etc.

Is something like that feaseable? #Not necessarily everyone needs to go buy ACROBAT PDF, but something that could maybe be PUBLIC DOMAIN established as the Amateurs Electronic QSL Program throughout the world that would be acceptable by ARRL, CHN, FISTS, etc. for whatever requirements they need for QSL Cards.

Interesting enough, if I had a QSL for someone, and then had the card HAND carried, or a piece of paper hand carried to that person, ARRL would accept that. #Why not an electronic format? #When I say electronic format, I mean electronic format that can be printed exactly like the original QSL card that would have been mailed. #

We have the technology, however were not putting it to good use, or taking advantage of the cost savings. #Like, with packet radio for example, we've had 9600 baud and faster abilities, but for some stupid reason we still insist on using 1970/80 technology of 1200 baud.... DUMB! #Why, because people don't wish to CHANGE. #And that is what I'm seeing with QSL procedures.

Note: Acrobat PDF Creator cost approximately $99, for the cost of much less then the $350, and $450 dollars I've spent so far on postage its a deal. #Common cents! no pun intended... #You can buy other not so popular version of a program simular to ACROBAT that will create the exact same documents, and readable by ACROBAT for as little as $20.

Any comments?

AB8TD: Guess you haven't read all of my posts. #Over the past 2 years, I would best guess I sent out at least 5000 QSL cards, many of which I've taken advantage of the buro, but as I clearly stated before, not everyone does that. # And many of the cards just simply show up direct. #The amount I've sent isn't realivant, what is are the cost I'm incurring in the process. #I've been doing this for 35 yrs, and I'm very familuar with the BURO and others that are out there. #But again this cost is still rising... # If your comfortable with $300 for 56 weeks of QSL returns then so be it, however it will become an issue over time as you begin to add that up year, after year after year.

73 - W8YRB - Rob

[k5vpc]

Hello again Rob,

I have noticed that nobody have mentioned spending 0.23 instead 0.37 per card.

Just sending the QSL card without envelope (cannot be smaller than 3.5 X 5 IAW USPS regulations) is less expensive.

Please, if I'm not correct, reply to this message with the correct information.

Since I came back from GTMO and I've been operating as N0VPC, I have been doing it that way without any inconvenience. At the same time we can promote Ham Radio Amateur activities. People can see the QSL card. HI HI!

73

Jorge - N0VPC
Crocker, Missouri

[n0jaa]

All I can say is Wow! I never thought about QSL cards in that manner before! I haven't sent out too many cards since I have been a ham (one or two here and there), but it has never been a high priority for me. It is nice to have a QSL card from someone you have contacted, especially if it is a DX contact (usually that is the only time I send out a QSL).

Most of the QSL cards I have received have been in reply from a shortwave broadcast station, to which I have sent a reception report. I have a couple of nice ones from VOA, Family Radio, HCJB, and a few others.

On the DX QSL's or shortwave reception reports, I usually send IRC's with the card.


Paul, N0JAA.

[kc4vu]

I find that using the outgoing QSL buro saves a bundle. It does take longer to get the cards in some cases, but if you use the buro for most cards, and direct postage for those rare ones that don't qsl via buro, and you'll save a lot of money.

[nc5s]

When sending a QSL card, I always include an SASE. Around 30% return not only a card but my SASE as well. 40% return their card in my SASE and around 30% do not respond at all. #On rare occassions, I have had some return my SASE empty.

Following the lead of those who return my SASE, I do exactly the same. #If someone wants one of my cards, I am more than happy to respond.

For DX QSLing, I use the WF5E service. #For those DX contacts who will not respond to WF5E, I always send an SASE.

[k9rb]

I've been a ham operator since 1961 and I was broought up in the hobby with the motto; "A QSL card is the final courtesy of a QSO" and have lived by that motto throughout the past 44 plus years. The hobby has changed significantly over the time that I've been operating and exchanging QSL cards and I do understand the costs today are far greater than they were back in the early 60's, but regardless, so have our incomes increased commensureately for the most part. I have been disabled for the past six years and operate more than ever before. Thanks to PC logging, it is easy to tell if you had worked a particular station on a particular band or mode before and need not re-QSL those QSO's as they already have been confirmed. If my records state that I've worked a station three times over the past decade or so and never received his QSL card, I will attempt again with a litle note; "This is 4th request for confirmation from you, please QSL." That works better than 60% of the time as I use the WF5E QSL forwarding service and WF5E includes an SAE or SASE to make the job of QSL'ing easier on the DX stations. I highly recommend using WF5E's QSL forwarding service and keeping SASE's at your local incoming QSL bureau if you would like your QSL/QSO's confirmed. If you don't care, thats another thing, but don't piss on others parades and at least reply to QSL card requests you receive if the QSO is valid in your log data. Lot's of people do want your card for the many awards you may have no interest in pursuing. Ham Radio is a fraternity and the very least one can do is to help others achieve their goals, even if you have none yourself. As far as the costs involved, they aren't all that great in comparison to the satisfaction you provide for other fellow ham operators. In my QSL card collection, I have some real teasures from yesteryear, including a card from King Hussein of Jordon - JY1, The spaceship MIR (R0MIR), The card of Father Marshall Moran- 9N1MM, for years the only signal out of Nepal, Caeds confirming both voice and packet communications with the Iternational Space Station, NA1SS and RS0ISS. and many other rare and interesting places and people, in all, representing over 350 different countries. Yes, it comes with a cost, but what doesn't? If it's not you're "pot of tea", that's fine, but again, please don't deprive others from the enjoyment they may get from having your QSL card when they sent a request for it. Another wy to iexpensively send out cards to most countries other than the United Statesl, besides using the WF5E QSL Service, is to use the ARRL outgoing DX QSL Bureau. Yes, you must be a member to ise this service, but at $4 per 1/2 lb. it is the best bang for the buck and supporting the ARRL, whether you agree or disagree with them and their phylosophies, they are, in fact, the only organized group working towards the future of Ham Radio and they have been quite an effective voice for us all. The publish a monthly mgazine you get as a member and membership is a bargain however you look at it. I really don't care to debate anyone on my statements or feelings I expressed here but just wanted to voice my opinions on courtesies and support for the longevity of the hobby we all love. Sorry it turned out to be so long but Thanks for reading it.
73, Rog-K9RB

[w4don]

I agree with your xyl. # Invest your dollars more wisely. #They will be your employees when you retire. #

Some years back I became a FISTS CW Club member and began using the Clubs' QSL Bureau. #After getting dupe after dupe I opted out because it was wasting my on-file postage. #FISTS Members don't need cards for Awards anyway . . . just a copy of their log(s).

Amateur Radio QSL's were originally designed to confirm a QSO.# #"5 9 #Moscow" isn't a QSO, it's a contact and not very interesting at that. # #

When I was first licensed it cost one-penny to mail a post card any where in the #World. #100 QSL cards cost around $5 back in 1957. # #

Stamp collectors might be interested in those cards that have postage stamps on them.

W4DON
Retired with a few "employees".

[N2MMM]

Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ Sep. 11 2005,14:00)]All I can say is Wow! #I never thought about QSL cards in that manner before! #I haven't sent out too many cards since I have been a ham (one or two here and there), but it has never been a high priority for me. #It is nice to have a QSL card from someone you have contacted, especially if it is a DX contact (usually that is the only time I send out a QSL).

Most of the QSL cards I have received have been in reply from a shortwave broadcast station, to which I have sent a reception report. #I have a couple of nice ones from VOA, Family Radio, HCJB, and a few others.

On the DX QSL's or shortwave reception reports, I usually send IRC's with the card.


Paul, N0JAA.
Speedway to America's playground.

[k6iii]

Let's see....
Shall I send 10 QSLs or buy a gallon of gasoline?

I use eQSL and LOTW exclusively. I do respond to all SASEs.

Card coming to me through the buro are just not collected - they go into the 'round file' whenever the buro does a purge; I never see them. It costs another gallon of gasoline to collect em. No thanks.

Sorry, retirement and reality has forced me into this corner.

[K3BM]

I wish I was as fortunate as you to have money be my only issue as far as my QSLing practice.
I just don't have the time to operate that much.

Best of luck in your decision

[kb2wye]

I stop a few years back. Just got tired of it. If I happen to RX a card these days then I will send one in return.

[ke7ate]

I have started posting my log on my web page which includes a link for the ham whom I made contact with allowing the download of a QSL card confirming the contact. It is better than anything I could afford to mail or even print. Visit my web page at:

KE7ATE (http://ke7ate.tripod.com/)

[KB5DPE]

"The 60's are over. But some days I think a lot of hams don't realize that :-)"

I guess that's why I spend only an hour or two a month with ham radio; and most of that's on the bench, working on equipment.

Tom KB5DPE

[AG6NC]

The cost is worth the thrill of getting cards from around the world. i give the stamped envolopes to 2 young boys and they are thrilled too. I am a pretty new HAM and have several hundred cards and think it is worth it even when I grit my teeth buying International postage coupons at $1.75. But if I were to use the rule I will not send cards anymore because they cost more than a few years ago then i should not buy bread because it is no longer 25 cents a loaf any more.
# Be good HAM send them out. I love getting them Bill KG6GNC

[ve9wgs]

I have enjoyed collecting QSL cards since my days as just a Short Wave Listener. Yes, they do become a little cumbersome by the time you have collected a few thousand. I eventually put my cards into a binder, well probably over half are still in shoeboxes, but someday I'll catch up.

The bureau is the most cost effective way to send and receive cards, especially DX. It does take longer but I'm always happy to get that bulging envelope every couple of months.

As for direct replies I always send an SASE or return postage and expect the same when someone is initiating a request with me. And I do send a fair amount, especially for special events, special prefixes, and yes when someone posts a nice looking card on QRZ. Since many of the Special Events are in the U.S. I buy stamps direct from the USPS by mail order or through their website. I've even bouight a few stamps from the French and British post office, you just have to make sure the rates are current.

I do encourage the sending of cards by operating with special prefixes a couple times a year. Many U.S. hams think American postage can be used in Canada, but it can't be, we are still a seperate country the last time I checked. #I don't mind receiving the U.S. postage too much since I do use it to get my own replies, but the 37 cent stamp is just not enough.

I don't use LOTW since I'm not chasing awards at this time. I am signed up with eqsl, but I stopped checking it regularly. Most don't even bother to put a design on their card. And talk about dupes, if you upload your entire log well every contact is verified. I don't choose to upload my entire log, so if somebody needs an eqsl I will gladly respond to an email request.

To answer the question about QSLing every contact. Some may be using a computer program ans find its just easier to print off lables for every contact and put the card in the bureau. While I guess others may not be using a logging program and may have forgotten they have your card or cards.

I appreciate any card I receive whether it's a full color glossy card, black and white or just some scribbling on the back of a post card.

I guess the bottom line is each of us have our own interests,whether it's the mode or band we operate on. And how and if we choose to QSL. #I guess some form of electronic QSL is better than nothing, but if old fashioned type QSLs become a thing of the past it wiill certainly take away some of my enjoyment of the hobby. And with any activity if you get less enjoyment out of it you will probably spend less and less time at it until you stop altogether.

And finally, how much do I spend each year on postage and associated costs. I couldn't hazard a guess. I'm not super active so it's no where near what some of you may be spending. But I guess as long as I am getting some enjoyment out of it I will continue.

73 to all.

Wade
VE9WGS (http://www.qsl.net/ve9wgs/)

[wa4dou]

"The final courtesy of a qso is a qsl". This, like so many sayings, must be understood by applying a little reason. It never meant that you or I had an obligation to send a qsl after a qso, and certainly not every qso. It meant that the receipent of a card should feel obligated to send one back. If I want your card I'll send you an SASE or SAE and cash or an IRC or 2. If I receive a card from you, I'll send one back. I don't need a lot more, probably less than 200 that will have real noteworthy significance to awards I'm interested in. But I've still got probably 1500 cards left to send out, if needed. And if you send me a card, I'll send you one back. All bets are off if I ever find myself down and out financially.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (k6iii @ Sep. 12 2005,07:54)]Card coming to me through the buro are just not collected - they go into the 'round file' whenever the buro does a purge; I never see them. It costs another gallon of gasoline to collect em. No thanks.
It costs me 60 cents to collect them. #4 times a year. #Where can you buy a gallon of gas for that? #Please tell me, I want some!! I'm retired, too!!

(I consider the incoming bureau to be the best bargain. $2.40 a year for lots of cards!!)

[K3ZH]

QSL's are just part of the hobby. They are something to look back on and remember. Cost? Sure they cost money, so does the "YasukiKenCollins" on one's desk, its all part of the hobby. I like to QSL and also like receiving my envelopes/qsl's from the bureau. I will spend the money (in my case about $300 a year. My two cents. Keep CW Alive and USE IT!

[vk3pjb]

Hi
My callsign is VK3PJB and i have been a Ham since 1980
I still qsl and always will even though i am not a rich person.

I have found over the years that qsl returns have been bad,mainly i believe dut to the fact Hams do not belong to amateur radio societies. I am a member of the WIA and this is normally whee i send cards to Bureau.

the bureau takes a while to send cards but i look forward to receiving the envelope full of goodies.
I am in the process of building up a collection of cards from amteurs , just so as to have a copy of a card.
If anyone wants to send a card ,please do so Via Bureau.

Short wave cards sent via Bureau or dirct most welcome
regards
Peter J Broughan
VK3PJB

[vk3pjb]

Hi
I forgot to say a few other things regarding qsls.

Could all those stations who have worked me since 1980.please qsl via bureau or direct.

I suppose qsl ing is like anything really.
Take for example someone who does voluntary work,

They spend their time and their money on something they enjoy.

If volunteers said " Stuff it,This costs me money ,so i will not volunteer my services "
What would happen ?

The next time an amateur complains about sending cards via Bureau,think what would happen if we volunteers in Red cross,Fire brigade,emergency services etc decided not to volunteer ,you would be in deep ####..
If you worked out the amount it would cost if we were paid the going rate,you would not be able to afford us,

An example would be those amateurs operating in the HurricaneKatrina arena.

I bought a collection of cards several weeks ago. In it are a few SWL cards,One though is a small letter explaining that he is 15 years old ,the date is 1955
And he is in Germany.

The thrill he must have got getting back a card or letter.

But every one to their own.

Just remember though,All those who have thousands of cards and saying that qsling is a bore,,,
What if those operators had sent you NOTHING, Not A Brass Razzooo.

Boy wouldn't you be pissed...

Re local area cards..

Well. I always sent at least one card to a local contact,as each card is a memory.

It still irks me that the first amateur I ever spoke to on radio was local AND he never sent me a card to confirm contact..This was my very first contact and he would not even take the effort to write on a pice of paper,the contacy details,,and send them to me....
I have no card to commemmorate my first contact yet he sent cards to ststions outside Australi.

What I find interesting though are CB radio operators,
Even though it costs to send cards,,,,They still send cards locally and dx..

Tthey are more friendlier,invite strangers for coffee,especially when traveller is a stranger ..I think we so called Hams should look at ourselves and see what jerks we are compared to radio operators who have no amateur licence yet really put themselves out to be friendly and courtious,,And they don't mind exchanging cards,even though they have heaps,,
I get the impression that we are just Grumpy Ol Men and Women who are too full of or own importance

$500 US a year,, Under $10 US a week.

Thats just a few cappacinos a week really.

I still get a thrill looking through the cards I have bought on ebay..

Postage to US is $1.80 airmail,,per letter.

I have just spent$27 US geting cards sent from the US.

But I suppose ,memories are not important in todays material world...I mean you cannot make a buck out of a memory can you?

So please remember..
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SEW.

QSL cards on paper..can be read when we are old or sad And bring a smile to our face when we remember the contacts...

I bet a lot of Hams affected by Katrina would like a copy of the cards they have lost...

[N7BXY]

I have been a Ham for 47 years. #I have probably worked WAS a few times over but, never went for the award. #Also, worked WAC, the same thing. #Mia culpa for not applying for the award. I really don't know why I have not done so.

I usually QSL DX, only, though when asked by anyone local (USA, 50 states) if I would QSL, I will. #I make my own QSL cards with my computer, and print them on Post Card grade paper. #I put the QSL card in an envelope and send them first class postage. #Some saving there, I suppose.

The postage cost is not an issue with me, though,#I sincerely understand anyones plight where $800.00 a year means something. #I have been there...

I also send back the SASE and pay for the postage myself, and most heartily agree with the Gentleman that said to give the QSL cards you do not want to school teachers that teach Social Studies, History, and Geography (if that is still a subject). #

When I was in High School, gas was 17 cents a gallon and a postage stamp was two or three cents. #I suppose I am an 'old person', though I think young, or so I believe.

I very much appreciate your post regarding the QSL subject. #You have addressed a problem that some of us have. #Much good luck to you and your very wise XYL.

[N7GFK]

Still have 90% of the QSL cards I got in 1980's.
Nobody likes me I guess. LOL Actually I live where there are lots of HAMs and is not worth the price of a stamp.
Is it OK to cover up old addresses with a mailing label?
Mine are 4 residences past.
I would love to get a hand written QSL card from a DX station that could not afford printed ones.
Rob could put his cards, organized by state and country, on 4X8 sheets of plywood and digitallay photo them, print them on 4x6 photos and have a smaller display.
Magnifying glass would be handy for those so inclined.
73, Randy in Aloha (OR)

[ae4nm]

!s this something we want to share with prospectible
hams? Jeez, just the thought of letting people know
what it would cost to get into ham radio at a general level would be enough to turn anyone off. O if I had the records to show how much " Ive wasted" on ham radio repairs alone as well. The things need work more than TV's !
Anyway on postage ? Well its sad that hams cant count points by sharing e-qsl's and its very sad we cant count on someone to return a qsl....think about all those we could have had and the postage that was wasted. I love qsl's but heres another comment. Cant I DX with anyone without them sending me a qsl ? I mean we didnt agree to share qsl's but here they come. Im almost obligated to send a reply qsl when recieving theirs......almost. See thats how alot of people think. O and those SASE's ?
They dont guarantee a thing.

Holland
AE4NM

[N7GFK]

"Wasted on ham radio",
LOL What have I wasted on trying to grow trees that bear 4 different fruits? ect, ect.
Is life , talk to folks. Last chance.
Randy in Aloha (OR)

[k8nqc]

Okay everybody. This subject comes up often but we must reiterate our position on the subject. Having been a ham for nearly fifty years I have seen those in the QSL business try to spead the idea that playing "pen pal" with the amateur radio hobby is some sort of obligation. One card printer in the 50's even included a new platitude in his advertising that " A QSL card is the final courtesy of a QSO." That myth has pulled in many suckers over the years. Don't buy it!! If one enjoys QSL cards they may enjoy the practice with others who enjoy cards. More power to them. Our money and the time of our life is for us to spend in ways we enjoy. We are free to make choices about that, either pro or con. It is very rude for anyone to attempt to force others to use their own resources to satisfy the preferences of others. The amateur who tries to squeeze a QSL from someone who chooses to not play the QSL game is just as rude as one who says NO!

The award argument is also very weak. Awards mean very little to anyone but the recipitent. It would take a troubled mind to get satisfaction from an award not really #earned. If someone has such a need for self esteem that they would prize an unearned award, we should not keep the poor soul from prize.

EQSL.CC had a good idea for a while that permitted a workable compromise. Unfortunately, they added a logbook that permitted dumping of spam type QSLs into the system. Their other changes which attempted to emulate the QSL hobby ruined their workable original concept.

I have seen may amateurs quit the hobby out of dread of going to the mailbox each day. My answer in recent years has been to 1) Never buy QSL cards; 2) Never promise a QSL card; 3) Never open a letter that looks like a QSL request.

You have my permission to print this and return it in the next SASE you get from a QSL Phisher.

Bill

[k1gun]

Rob I can appreciate your wanting to answer every card thats sent to you, however when it gets to the point where you're starting to realize the cost just ask for sase you don't have to mention that over the air however in your bio here on qrz.com where most folks come to get an address to send you one just state that you require an sase for conformation..the people that run qrz make it very plain to anyone that goes to your call for an address that it shows right under your address that sase's are required don't forget Rob your not in a popularity contest you work hard for your money...John K1GUN

[zl3jt]

Dear non-QSLers,
There are ways to avoid the cost incurred for confirming QSOs and keep the award hunters happy.
Join eqsl.cc and LotW and upload all your logs to both sites. This allows those that wish to "QSL" to pick and choose out of your log and you have to do nothing at no COST!
Secondly, engage a QSL Manager, send all your logs to him tell him you don't want the cards, just reply to them as he receives them.
All you have to do then is upload your logs as you progress with your radio hobby...
If you are reading this then you must have a computer! So use a reputable logging program which will service all three of the above suggestions.... Bingo! No money needed, no cards, no hassle...problem solved...everybody happy... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
73
ZL3JT
Jungle Telegraph

[w4nti]

I got tired of the QSL race years ago. But I understand some folks out there still enjoy it. So this is how I do it.

1. I hardly ever initiate a card. IF I do I ALWAYS send a SASE. I figure if I'm the one that wants/needs the card why should I expect the other operator to foot the bill?

2. If a card is requested, I say "I am good in QRZ and in other data bases, a SASE is appreciated".

3. If I receive a QSL in an envelope, with a SASE, I figure the operator really wants/needs my card. I check my log (Yeah I still do that), and if it is correct I respond that day, or next. If in error I return a note and maybe a card not filled out with a comment like, sorry...not in log.

4. If I receive a QSL without a SASE I generally respond when I have NOTHING else to do. Might take a while.

Dan/W4NTI

[ke7ate]

This is certainly a very important aspect of ham radio and for some a very special way to share the hobby. I look at it from the point of view that the postal service is a another method to confirm the communication or contact.

I used to receive and send paper QSL cards. I can't deny it is wonderful to have that piece of paper in my hands, but as I look at the amount of paper I am faced with on a day to day basis, I am working on removing the paper chase from my life. I do not look at it as clutter or waste. Confirmation of contact is a great feeling and a kind of recognition from fellow amateur radio operators that validate our purpose. However, for me I have moved my QSL methods to another wonderful form of confirmation...the Internet. I have began to keep an online log and provide a link next to each contact for hams to download a copy of their QSL card from my web site.

Click here to Visit KE7ATE's Web Site. (http://ke7ate.tripod.com/)

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (N7GFK @ Sep. 14 2005,02:47)]Is it OK to cover up old addresses with a mailing label?
Mine are 4 residences past.
73, Randy in Aloha (OR)
Of course it is OK, Randy. Why should you throw away perfectly good cards? I put labels over the old address quite often as career moved me (see my website for details). Sometimes even marked out the address and wrote in the new one. Never had a complaint or adverse comment. Actually, it just shows that you are an active person.

[ad7ao]

Quote[/b] (W8YRB @ Sep. 08 2005,11:38)]After going through my QSL's today and finalizing the reply cards. (I travel allot and takes me a long time to reply), anyhow I've just totalled my postage for 2005, I keep a running total of my postage on a spreadsheet. Ouch, I just hit over $450.00 just in POSTAGE, that isn't envolopes, QSL cards, nothing else but simply good ole Uncle Sams postage stamps. Last year I was over $350.00 at the end of the year. This is September and I'm hitting $450.00 already. Just in 2004 and 2005 alone I've spent $800.00 just in postage. Simply put my budget just can not continue to support that type of cash flow for postage of QSL Cards. Well let me put it another way, the YL says enough is enough and I have to agree, with $800.00 I could have bought that rig for the mobile I've been wanting. Don't get me wrong I love getting the cards in the mail just like the next operator, however it has to come to a stop at some point. I've been a ham for 35 years, and I never thought I would have to consider a budget for QSL Cards until this past 3 and 4 years when I began tracking the postage. Especially sense the were other alternatives like EQSL, etc. out there but I really wanted to continue to send the paper back QSL CARD mainly for historical reason. Unfortunatly it saddens me to have to cave in and go another route. I will no longer be sending QSL CARD (paper type) via the postal. I will reply with an electronic form of some sort, I haven't quite figured out what electronic method I'm going to do, but I have to do something. (Open to suggestions that work for others)

Now that I've got that off my shoulder, leads me to a couple of statements about people who do send QSL cards.

#1... Why do people send a QSL card for each and every contact they have with you. An example, I have one call in my database that has sent me 8 QSL cards, one for each QSO we've ever had. Why? Wasn't 1 card enough? Or am I missing something?
#2... SASE, hmmm why send a SASE to a Local (USA) ham? I never use a SASE to respond to a QSL, that just doesn't feel proper edequte (spelling) to me. Oh yeah it could have saved me alittle in postage (10 to 20.00) but again, that just doesn't seem appropriate.
#3...Why bother to send a QSL if all your sending is a piece of paper with writing on it to acknowledge the QSO. Although that is what a QSL Card does, it amazes me how many (supposedly) cards I get, that are nothing more then a piece of paper with writing on them (hand writing). Again, this tends to justify why I'm going to do it electronically instead.
I'm not saying QSL Cards have to be something fancy (yeah I've got some of those also). But at least something better then thin tissue paper would be nice. (yes I've gotten some like that also).

Please give some feed back, what do you do? I'm currrently using postcard rates, and some standard letter rates, but I always try and use a buro whenever possible FISTS buro, or DX buro. But still, the postage has become way to expensive.

What are you using?
What kind of money are you spending for QSL postage each year?
Can you justify the cost? Be specific, don't just say yeah I want a card. What are you doing with them?

I must have 10 or 12 boxes of cards from all over the world, and I'm debating with my wife right now what I should do with them. These are card size boxes maybe 2 feet deep filled with QSL cards from around the world. Yeah I have some special ones, but their special to me, are they to someone else? Will I throw them away, OF COURSE NOT, but I'm just tossing out the question what good are they?

Faced with a delima, looking for oppions. Thanks

73 - W8YRB - Rob

====================================
Added:
I've gotten some interesting responses and I appreciate everyones input. Looking forward to some more. It is allowing me to consider some options that I've never thought about. The Geography Teacher was an execellent input, I'll have to look into that one as I remember the days when I was in Geography Class and learning all the different parts of the world was just fascinating to me since I was also a Ham.

Did alittle math here, let me put this in perspective for some of you that may not grasp the complexity of what I'm dealing with here.

First off I never ask for any QSL cards. Don't have a need to collect them. When I get a QSL card its just shows up in the mail, and I feel obligated to respond, sorry but thats just how I feel about it.

2004 ... $350 or more in Postage
Estimated cards sent ... 950 cards
(I know more were sent because of buro but this is conservative number)

2005 ... $450 or more in Postage
Estimated cards sent ... 1250 cards

2003 Cost for 2000 cards $135.00
2005 Cost for 2000 cards $152.00

Envelopes, misc junk ... say $50.00

Hopefully this help put this in perspective to you.

A card here, a card there or even say 100 cards per year thats $37.00 in post for the year.

SASE, if someone sends me a SASE I always return the SASE in an envelope with my postage instead. Something my elmers thought me and has stayed with me ever since. You spend a bux, I spend a bux its all fair. But now my bux is becoming more and more countable probably as much as the next person.

Thanks again for the suggestions, I'm looking forward to hearing more options.

ZL, loved your humor thanks I needed that.

73 - W8YRB - Rob

====================================
Added:
Over the years the cost of equipment (rigs, towers, rotors, etc.) continue to increase as we all know and that is the natural evolution of things. (yeah bread did cost 10 cents a loaf, and yes gas was 27 cents a gallon) but the evolution continues and prices continue to rise. when you consider the following:

$800.00 (2 years worth of QSL postage I actually spent) for out going QSL's. Weight the following factors:

1 each Kenwood TS480SAT . . . $900.00
1 each Icom IC746pro . . . $1,300.00
1 each Yaesu FT1000MP MK 5 . . . $2,300.00

In 2 years time I've spent the following

88% of the cost of a NEW TS480SAT
62% of the cost of a NEW IC746pro
34% of the cost of a NEW FT1000MP MK 5

I'm trying to gain perspective of how to justify these figures to myself (open the eyes for others). When you consider the following:

1 each STEPPIR 3 element yagi . . . $1,889.00
1 each Mosley Pro57B . . . $1,055.00
1 each Hustler 4BTV Vertical . . . $139.00

42% of the price of a Steppir 3
75% of the price of a Mosley Pro57B (7 element tribander)
and finally purchasing approx 6 each Hustler 4BTV's

Ouch, where should the money be more wisely spent? What is enough? 50 cards? 100 cards? I guess it has to come down to personal finances, priorities, Wants/Needs and finally obligations.

I hope this information has opened the eyes alittle of the delima's you can be faced with when your putting that next QSL in the mail. Each one of those $.37 stamps adds up... In the mean time.................

OFF TO THE POST OFFICE I GO, 73 to all.

73 - W8YRB - Rob
This looks like and sounds like snivling to me. I always appreciate SASE's. It makes it easier even for domestic QSO's. Not everyone can afford stamps. If you just wish to be rude, so be it. It's your loss.

73's

Bruce
AD7AO

[k5ehx]

Quote[/b] (WB2LCW @ Sep. 08 2005,15:32)]We can use LOTW and EQsl.cc for awards!

But I say there should be system so that we can create a
Qsl that can be emailed! Each E-mail qsl can be any
size up to 8.5x11 inches and up to 3 pages for special qsl's for Dx peditions so photographs can be applied with text..You can have photos of you family,antenna's ,staion ,car,etc and a text description!

E-mail is Free! No stamps ,Envelopes , IRC's or Cash for
postal people to steal!

There could be code at the bottom of each page
that is encoded with the originating call,station worked call,date,and time. this code can be used to validate
the recieved qsl..

We can store these qsls on CD's or DVD's or print the ones we want to display! we could have software like a slide show to display them on our office pc's! No more
shoe boxes!

Thats my thought on the subject!

73 Mike
Email can be digitally signed, which is both legally valid (in the US and many other countries) and easy enough to do. Yo