Rotten Times

[w5alt]

The following is reprinted with permission from The Roundtable, September 2005.
Copyright 2005, The Society for the Preservation of Amateur Radio, All Rights Reserved

Rotten Times
by Tired Old Man
Musings on the state of amateur radio

Anyone who desires to know the opinion of yours truly about these proposals of change by the Olde Relay League and the Radio Commission, let him be duly advised that I consider them ROTTEN. No other description would do them more justice. Only the spirits of heaven know how it will all turn out and they apparently speak to Newington and to no other.

I have been silent for many years and after a long and remarkable life, I am called back to the light of human endeavour to account for my progeny. I have seen it all, rotten sending, rotten action upon the air, trouncing of traditions I hold closely. How my child could have turned out so poorly is a weight that rests upon my mind like an anvil. I have searched my limited vocabulary for the words to express the way I feel and am unable to find words with the right sting to be fitfully printed.

I remember sitting by the fire and listening to the signals from across the waves, my wife at my side reading or knitting. I'd fill up the old pipe, tamping the tobacco down properly while enjoying an on air conversation in the venerable Morse. Even the cleanest sending allowed time for the pipe to be vented and lit, the smoke allowed to wisp across my face. Presently the chap on the key was boasting about the completion of his latest transmitter, and from my own ear, he had gotten it right. He was light in the power end of the business, but he had strung up a respectable aerial and the set was properly grounded as to ensure a good transmission.

The fire in the fire place has long gone out, and my wife awaits me in a place where all sending is good, all tone is clear, and all transmitters have no need of antennae. Thus, I must admit that I have dutifully spied on my brother amateurs as of late. The fire in their fireplace is mostly wax and paper it seems, and in most homes the wife is too busy with car pools (I have yet to find out how one may swim in an automobile) to knit or read. Many of the fairer sex are taking up the key and microphone, an activity I always knew would suit them well. Things have changed. These days my pipe can scarcely be lit for pausing to observe the activity consuming the airwaves (as it defies sensibility). Many conversations have a bite to them that would best be left in a pool hall or saloon and not aired before wife and child.

Of all people on this earth and above, I know that mankind must change at a rapid pace. I see change of technology that I could have never envisioned with methods to transmit voice and information in the ether with much clarity. But in so noticing the change in the machinery used now, I can't help but consider the plight of my old cat. I had cut a piece of fresh wood many years ago from a tree feld by lightning nearby, cut for the purpose of building a tuning circuit for my low power transmitter. The wood was cut much as a plank would be, about 3 feet long, cut to the specification of 3 inchs wide and planed to about an inch. In my haste I had extended most of the long plank off of my workshop bench but had a few issues of QST (I dare not say how many lest someone draw a conclusion about the lack of knowledge in so many a book as to constitute lack of substance) piled upon one end to keep the wood from tipping over.

I noticed after a time that my cat had worked his way out to the end of the plank like a condemned sailor of old and being fleet of foot, he managed to stand some time there with no ill effect. At some point I absent-mindedly took up an issue of QST to examine a circuit I had seen and caught out of the corner of my eye the collapse of the plank, the rapidly sinking cat and the launching in the air of the remaining magazines. It seems to me that the amateurs today are on tip toes at the end of a plank upon which, at the other end, are piled the combined knowledge of the years. So much of the hard learned life lessons have been removed that the balance of the plank is in dire straits. All the same, there is an absent minded steward of the service who sees no issue in removing another QST paper from the pile the probable result being ignored.

As my cat knows now, there must be balance for the board not to fall. You can rearrange the balance, but removing any knowledge required to keep the parcel of the same weight will cause a sure collapse. What I see today is much like the chap sitting on a tree limb and cutting with a saw between himself and the tree. Much good work is being done in the sawing but it is not hard to predict the outcome.

I know my progeny and their eminent position in the radio science. I can see by the latest photographs that much pomposity was exhibited at a recent meeting of the board (plank) of directors. I have not for many years seen a room of more important looking people nor been so convinced by their expression at the need to fully trust that importance. And right up to the instant my cat's luck on the plank changed, he had much the same calm and "in complete control" expression. There was much discussion about which end of the limb to cut, and a lot of walloping of the desk to regain order. Much like the chap sawing on the wrong end of the limb, much work was done but with a predictable result to come. When you're out on a limb, or at the end of your plank your options are to some extent limited, yet the most common of us would consider retreat as a viable action. But these uncommon men seem to be trying to save the face they will need later to fall flatly upon.

If my aged memory is to be believed, I am recollecting that the Relay League was created to give the average amateur a fair deal and not to provide a refuge for scoundrals. The Radio Commission's recent actions run as completely contrary to the Relay League as one can imagine and thus a clear crystal lamp is shown upon the great distance the League has fallen. As for yours truly, I have remained near the fire with my head shaking in complete disbelief for such a period that it may appear some grand palsey has sorely afflicted me.

My sainted wife once asked me to go to the kitchen for her (as she was quietly knitting beside me) and being the dutiful husband, I lay my pipe aside in the brass ashtray and marched through the house to the kitchen. It was upon entering the kitchen that I realized at once that I had no idea as to what it was she had desired, and having made the trip already, I was not of a mood to waste my efforts. I retrieved a clean glass from the cupboard and drew a refreshing glass of water for her. Surely that is what she desired and based on my infallable knowledge of her I marched back, prize in hand, proud as a peacock. It was truly one of the rare ocassions that my love looked at me and wondered if my mind was somehow lost and thus she softly spoke and set my ways straight at once. She had wanted me to see that the water from the well had become cloudy by benefit of a brisk rain earlier. Upon examining the glass of water in my hand, much to my horror, I saw the water was not fit for drink, bath, or other use. And in her soft and polite way, she asked me why it was that I had supposed I was capable of the great feat of mind reading?

So why does the Olde Relay League make the assumption that they can (by Tarrot, Crystal Ball, or other means) read the mind of the average amateur? Like the proud peacock I was in my humble kitchen, the officials strut around with their privlege of clairvoyance in total ignorance of desire, and proudly so. Thus it should come as no supprise that the Radio Commission would use as basis for their recent decisions concerning the removal of Samuel's test the opinion mostly of those who were prompted to comment by whatever forces. Surely had the Earls of Fontleroy asked someone, the answer would not have been a mystery to God, man and beast.

I have a hunch that there will be more to report on in the plight of cats, tree limbs, and superciliousness, not to mention the many knotty issues regarding the Radio Commission which are upon us. I must say that I am glad to see that there are some among you still of the right mind to help your fellow man, advance the engineering art, and enjoy the fraternity. Maybe I will light up my pipe and pull up an old crate to take the pressure off of my tired legs, and chat with you a little more about these things. It seems surely that I have been away far too long.

[NY7Q]

Very nice, very truthful, very thoughful. I feel much the same. Obviously, ke7eke is of the new wave of newbies. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[W4STP]

All of us Amateur's could learn a lot from The Tired Ole Man!
The commison and the ARRL are just to full of themselves! They fail to listen to the rank and file
of Amateur radio operators to see what are the
wants and needs of all Amateur's in this service!!
Much less use any amount common sense in their
rulemaking
just my two cents worth!!

[N5FOG]

Another forum for the Code/No-Code debate which soon will be filled with hate from both sides and be totally counter productive to ham radio. Will be interesting to see how much emergency traffic out of Louisiana and Mississippi are going to be CW. I’m willing to speculate not much.


Eric Kc5Fog

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (Kc5fog @ Sep. 02 2005,19:02)]Another forum for the Code/No-Code debate which soon will be filled with hate from both sides and be totally counter productive to ham radio. Will be interesting to see how much emergency traffic out of Louisiana and Mississippi are going to be CW. I’m willing to speculate not much.

Eric Kc5Fog
Sorry, Eric, you're behind the curve on this one. There has already been extensive CW traffic out of the affected area. Low power CW because of lack of electric mains. If we run low power CW, we get through and can recharge the batteries with solar.

No debate here, just fact.

[n9jlf]

Have not had a chance to listen to CW emergency nets but voice nets seem to be trying hard but slow by todays standards. When all else fails there is Ham Radio. CW, SSB, Digital....Are we really ready?

[AC0GT]

Just another rant on how things have changed (presumably for the worst) by an old man that longs for the way things were. #This is the third such posting on the front page of QRZ.com in a week on the topic from members of SPAR. #Could you at least spread it out a little bit? #You know, save one for next week? #Then again they probably have dozens of ways to rephrase their lament for the ending of Morse code testing and will have another essay for us in a couple days.

One thing that bothers me most about this tradition that SPAR keeps bringing up is how they wish to preserve it. #They want to keep the Morse code test as the tradition rather than Morse code use as the tradition. #I suspect that the ARRL Code Proficiency certificates will be available for some time. #I would also think that CW contests will also continue. #I don't think much will truly change once the NPRM becomes rule. #Test or no test if you want the tradition to live on you have to convince people to actually use that skill after they have their license.

SPAR keeps asking us to respect tradition and keep the testing. Many have said this before but I will say it again, if the tradition needs the support of law to continue then it is not much of a tradition. Some traditions were not meant to be. I say we let the Amateur community decide. After the NPRM to end Morse code testing become rule there will be nothing to prevent someone from learning and using Morse code. If it proves useful, as it has in the recent flooding, then not only will the tradition of Morse code use continue but so will the tradition of Amateurs helping out when needed most.

The FCC is not trying to kill a tradition, they are just updating the law to reflect current realities. There is no legal reason to require Morse code use. That is all it comes down to, the FCC cannot require the use of Morse code. In that case the requirement for Morse code knowledge before getting a license serves no legal purpose. The testing may serve to continue a tradition but the FCC is not bound to respect that tradition.

Move along people, nothing to see here.

[K8ERV]

Tired Old Man? I always knew my name stood for something!!

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[kb2wye]

just another person's thought/comment/opinion... whatever will be - will be! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[kg6amw]

Hold on, let me find by violin. OK, I got it. Can you repeat everything again, while I play.

KG6AMW

[N9AA]

Quote[/b] (W4STP @ Sep. 02 2005,16:38)]All of us Amateur's could learn a lot from The Tired Ole Man!
The commison and the ARRL are just to full of themselves! They fail to listen to the rank and file
of Amateur radio operators to see what are the
wants and needs of all Amateur's in this service!!
Much less use any amount common sense in their
rulemaking
just my two cents worth!!
Another post pining for the past. It's too bad that old Hiram didn't count a time machine among his many inventions. This would certainly give the Old Timers a way to get back to where they want to be and save a bunch of space on the various ham websites.

It's not the FCCs job to listen to the rank and file.

The League should listen and probably do, but the rank and file are saying what a lot of people don't want to hear: that they agree with the FCC that CW testing should be done away with.

Remember: a significant number of the ARRL's membership is made up of no-code Technicians. The League has to listen to them, too. You and I may not like this, but that how it works. And it should work that way.

If you do not want the code requirement done away with, then you should spend time writing the FCC, not waste time posting comments here. If you support the elimination of the CW testing requirement, write the FCC and don't waste time posting here.

Your time is running out. You need to submit comments by the end of October and reply comments are due a couple weeks later. Every minute you waste crying and moaning here is a minute you can't spend crafting a persuasive comment to the FCC.

Good Luck...

Scott, N9AA

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (N9AA @ Sep. 03 2005,12:21)]The League should listen and probably do, but the rank and file are saying what a lot of people don't want to hear: that they agree with the FCC that CW testing should be done away with.

Remember: a significant number of the ARRL's membership is made up of no-code Technicians. The League has to listen to them, too. You and I may not like this, but that how it works. And it should work that way.
Just curious where you got the numbers from that support the above statements.

73
George
K3UD

[af2cw]

The ARRL seemed a bit surprised at the FCC's move, as stated on their webpage (http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/07/20/100/?nc=1).

Quote[/b] ]The League and others had called for retaining the 5 WPM requirement only for Amateur Extra class applicants.

Which was part of their petition to the FCC.

[AC0GT]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Sep. 03 2005,11:41)]Quote[/b] (N9AA @ Sep. 03 2005,12:21)]The League should listen and probably do, but the rank and file are saying what a lot of people don't want to hear: that they agree with the FCC that CW testing should be done away with.

Remember: a significant number of the ARRL's membership is made up of no-code Technicians. The League has to listen to them, too. You and I may not like this, but that how it works. And it should work that way.
Just curious where you got the numbers from that support the above statements.

73
George
K3UD
I did a little web searching and found the following link that gives some dated information on ARRL membership.

http://www.hamradio-online.com/1999/aug/growth.html

The data is from 1996 to 1998 and indicate that Technician membership in the ARRL was less than 15%. #Whether that distribution changed much in the last decade is anyone's guess. That is compared to the Amateur community as a whole where Technicians comprised almost half of all licensed Amateurs.

Whether a person would call 15% "significant" or not is debatable.

[G0GQK]

Reading the responses, I rather get the feeling that some are unaware that these kind of articles were printed monthly in QST many years ago. Some Americans don't respond to humour, unless it smacks 'em in the face !

Just a thought, anybody heard Scratchafisti lately ?

73, Mel http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (KC0LXK @ Sep. 03 2005,15:02)]Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Sep. 03 2005,11:41)]Quote[/b] (N9AA @ Sep. 03 2005,12:21)]The League should listen and probably do, but the rank and file are saying what a lot of people don't want to hear: that they agree with the FCC that CW testing should be done away with.

Remember: a significant number of the ARRL's membership is made up of no-code Technicians. The League has to listen to them, too. You and I may not like this, but that how it works. And it should work that way.
Just curious where you got the numbers from that support the above statements.

73
George
K3UD
I did a little web searching and found the following link that gives some dated information on ARRL membership.

http://www.hamradio-online.com/1999/aug/growth.html

The data is from 1996 to 1998 and indicate that Technician membership in the ARRL was less than 15%. Whether that distribution changed much in the last decade is anyone's guess. That is compared to the Amateur community as a whole where Technicians comprised almost half of all licensed Amateurs.

Whether a person would call 15% "significant" or not is debatable.
If the numbers are close to what they would be today it means that there are about 23,500 NCTs as members of the ARRL. This would mean that less than 10% of all NCTs are ARRL members. I understand from a good source that Novice licensees have very low numbers. Also, ARRL membership has been on a slow decline (on average) since about 1996. Presumably this would include the NCT membership, but I have no way to back it up.

Overall all the ARRL has a membership of about 24% of all classes of licensees. Obviously the membership distribution is concentrated in the General, Advanced and Extra class licensees, with, I think, the Extra having the highest penetration in its class. On the other hand, the single largest untapped source of new members is the Technician class.

73
George
K3UD

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ Sep. 03 2005,15:40)]Reading the responses, I rather get the feeling that some are unaware that these kind of articles were printed monthly in QST many years ago. Some Americans don't respond to humour, unless it smacks 'em in the face !

Just a thought, anybody heard Scratchafisti lately ?

73, Mel http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
How about the Dixie Squinch Owl with the QST Column, Owl Juice?

Anyone here remember it?

It was discontinued because it was way too much in your face, but very very good.

73
George
K3UD

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Sep. 03 2005,11:41)]Quote[/b] (N9AA @ Sep. 03 2005,12:21)]The League should listen and probably do, but the rank and file are saying what a lot of people don't want to hear: that they agree with the FCC that CW testing should be done away with.

Remember: a significant number of the ARRL's membership is made up of no-code Technicians. The League has to listen to them, too. You and I may not like this, but that how it works. And it should work that way.
Just curious where you got the numbers from that support the above statements.

73
George
K3UD
91.3% of statistics are made up on the spot. Including this one!

[WA4RYW]

Well, say what you will, but the facts of the matter are that technical future of the world no longer looks to amateur radio as their playground. For the last 25 years, the hobby has been in a decline from a high-tech experimenter's kitchen to the latest incarnation of a citizen's radio service. I’m not saying that’s good, bad, or indifferent, but it IS most assuredly a drastic change from the past. I too miss the way it was. It took me two years of intense study to get my amateur advanced license, which also prepared me for my radiotelephone license, and a brief career in communications systems maintenance. Everyone’s heard it before, formulas had to be learned, current distribution calculations had to be made, blah, blah, blah, and all in front of a government examiner. Code had to be copied ONE MINUTE SOLID on paper, no multiple choice. And then, the skills and practices learned while one operated as a novice was applied to the newly earned permanent license, as the novice was only valid for one year and not renewable for another. And the result of all of this? The people that EARNED their license really wanted to be there, and tended to be the sharper edge of society. Vulgarity existed, but it was very rare for the most part. It WAS a bit of an exclusive country club atmosphere, but made up of like-minded people. Yaesu and Icom would have had difficulty selling that $14,000 flash to this crowd I speak of. Equipment of this time was plain and functional and VERY well built. I STILL use a pair of Drake 4C twins from time to time. They are clearly marketing to the appliance crowd, not technical. THEY know where the future is. Yaesu and Icom will have a hell of a hard time convincing the old set that they have unearthed the engineering find to improve a 60 year old technology like SSB that would be worth fourteen grand. That’s clearly made and marketed for the NEW amateur radio. That’s what motivates the NEW crowd. Having said all that, yes, I find it sad that things have changed, but they have. For better or worse is a matter of perspective, and the influx will certainly extend the existence of amateur radio for a period of time, which can’t be ALL bad. All things must change from time to time, or die. The new generation of our sharpest and brightest has re-focused their interests to computers and gaming, and that leaves the old amateur radio hobby of the middle 20th century with a dwindling bunch of old guys and the new influx from the CB crowd. It was abandoned by technology, so I don’t see the big deal that the CB people salvaged what was left. Enjoy, new CBers, and I hope you can keep the numbers up so we may enjoy our spectrum for the rest of my life. Commercial interests want our spectrum badly, and they have started with our 220 band. PLEASE get off 2 meters and establish a foothold on the rest of the bands! And may you be successful in removing any administrative obstacles to using ALL the extended bands!

So much for my rambling thoughts
Party on!

[VA6SZ]

To "Tired Old Man";

# # It's time to trade in those B batteries for some modern power. "I like Ike" has long since vanished from your everyday vocabulary. Either move into today or "Just fade away".
# # By the sounds of it, you probably didn't like automobile batteries going from six to twelve volts. The "all powerful" radio fading away to the television. Sounds as if you would probably like to ban the internet to keep the libraries' monopoly on information.
# # Your "Olde Relay League" doesn't have the clout with your "Radio Commission" that you think it does. It looks to me as if the "Commission" is not as easily swayed as you believe.
# # But it is nice to see that you've at least learned to communicate via the computer. 73 OM es GL. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ Sep. 03 2005,16:40)]Reading the responses, I rather get the feeling that some are unaware that these kind of articles were printed monthly in QST many years ago. #Some Americans don't respond to humour, unless it smacks 'em in the face !
Amazing, isn't it?

[N2MMM]

Yeah, SPAR nice shot. KEEP Amateur Radio divided in hopes that 1950s style ham radio will be somehow "Preserved" with hateful stuff like this. If Hiram P. Maxim (the REAL Old Man) was still around, he'd be apalled at the actions of those who are creating a division in the Amateur community in the name of "preserving tradition" The CW requirement has to go and you guys who are fighting to keep it are generating animosity that is the very thing that will lead to CW sub bands getting abolished if Amateur Radio manages to survive this at all.

[K8ERV]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Sep. 03 2005,18:06)]I rather get the feeling that some are unaware that these kind of articles were printed monthly in QST many years ago.
Some of use don't get the overpriced QST--

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[ki4lhn]

I do agree, we have come on rotten times, but I would have to say it is for completely different reasons. I am a new radio opperator and I am already discouraged due to the considerable ammount of animosity between this fraternity of opperators.

So an old man says this fraternity is breaking apart due to the lack of a requirement of 5 wpm? I would have to disagree. It is falling apart, all right, but as a result of the constant arguments everywhere.

I am tired of coming on QRZ and having to read the complaints every time I do. Have any of you considered that this is one of the first sites that a prospective amateur comes to? That this is probably the best site for test preparedness? Have any of you stopped for a minute to think how all of this fighting will affect someones desire to join our so called fraternity?

Tell me why it is that dispite a very intense natural disaster this is still a major issue. What is more important- keeping a tradition, or saving a life? During Katrina I volunteered at the local EOC. At various times, only two amatures were on station at a time, and a number of times, these two opperators were both no-code techs, one of which has already passed element 3.

Do any of you know in which section of frequencies a hurricane net falls on? How about HF. Which is honestly more important, spreading news of current events durring a disaster or sitting around bickering about whether or not a lack of code will destroy all radio? I will agree that there wasnt much said on the aforementioned frequency, but perhaps more would have been said if more could have been said?

Call me a no code technician, I really dont care anymore, but I guarentee you that all the persistant name calling is what will break this fraternity, and dont expect it to be a fracture which will easilly mend. We do live in rotten times. A time when our art and hobby is dying due to constant bickering. Please, someone let me know how anyone can expect these confrontations to help preserve our art. Anyone.

[w0vu]

Quote[/b] (ki4lhn @ Sep. 03 2005,11:55)]I do agree, we have come on rotten times, but I would have to say it is for completely different reasons. I am a new radio opperator and I am already discouraged due to the considerable ammount of animosity between this fraternity of opperators.

So an old man says this fraternity is breaking apart due to the lack of a requirement of 5 wpm? I would have to disagree. It is falling apart, all right, but as a result of the constant arguments everywhere.

I am tired of coming on QRZ and having to read the complaints every time I do. Have any of you considered that this is one of the first sites that a prospective amateur comes to? That this is probably the best site for test preparedness? Have any of you stopped for a minute to think how all of this fighting will affect someones desire to join our so called fraternity?

Tell me why it is that dispite a very intense natural disaster this is still a major issue. What is more important- keeping a tradition, or saving a life? During Katrina I volunteered at the local EOC. At various times, only two amatures were on station at a time, and a number of times, these two opperators were both no-code techs, one of which has already passed element 3.

Do any of you know in which section of frequencies a hurricane net falls on? How about HF. Which is honestly more important, spreading news of current events durring a disaster or sitting around bickering about whether or not a lack of code will destroy all radio? I will agree that there wasnt much said on the aforementioned frequency, but perhaps more would have been said if more could have been said?

Call me a no code technician, I really dont care anymore, but I guarentee you that all the persistant name calling is what will break this fraternity, and dont expect it to be a fracture which will easilly mend. We do live in rotten times. A time when our art and hobby is dying due to constant bickering. Please, someone let me know how anyone can expect these confrontations to help preserve our art. Anyone.
Change the channel!!!!!!!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[ki4lhn]

Quote[/b] ]Change the channel!!!!!!!!!!

I am. The problem is the programming never changes.

[NL7W]

We do live in rotten times... ham radio is morphing into an less valuable service populated by less skilled, or unskilled, average citizens who won’t value the spectrum like those who have gone before them.

Excerpts from my comment to the FCC NPRM:

“With NPRM 05-235, the only remaining demonstrated skill required of amateur radio license applicants will be removed. Given that our licensing test pools and answers are published and in the public domain (they didn't used to be), nearly any citizen – through wrote memorization – can soon become a ham operator with little expended effort.

Amateur radio should not be made readily accessible to the masses by eliminating the only work that is still required for a license, which is (or was) learning Morse code. It is this long-standing operator’s reasoned opinion that only those who are serious enough to put forth a modest work effort actually obtain an HF capable amateur radio license. Amateur radio’s Morse code skill demonstrations required applicants to affect a unique and wonderful quality – gumption. Without it, a large quantity of quality operators are not guaranteed – only a large quantity of operators.

In effect, reducing or eliminating any skills, knowledge, and comprehension requirements is a disservice to the amateur radio service and our Nation. It is also a disservice to long-standing ham operators who have historically worked hard for, and honestly developed skills and expertise because of, the service’s higher class licenses. This NPRM disrespects the wishes of very large segment of our Nation's long-standing ham population.

More importantly, the NPRM's poor reasoning for such drastic testing changes will weaken the service. I continue to have grave concerns regarding the gradual reduction or elimination of service testing standards over the last 15 years. Any reduction or elimination of existing license testing requirements will lower the standard of operator, and thus, violate part (d) of Part 97.1. Therefore, the removal of CW as a requirement can only truly be debated within the context of a comprehensive review and rewrite of testing procedures – overall (which the NPRM said it addressed). And, since this NPRM’s body of proposed changes doesn’t include a rebalanced skills, knowledge, and comprehension requirements suite, such an “overall” review is not being proposed or entertained as part of this NPRM proposal; the rulemaking proposal should be REJECTED or MODIFIED.

Realistically speaking, the Commission should modify this NPRM and keep the Morse code requirement for the EXTRA CLASS license – a class of license that should reflect extra effort, superior knowledge, and an operationally experienced operator. Moreover, the present NPRM doesn’t present a win-win situation for all interested and involved parties – especially long-standing and experienced amateur operators. At the least, this NPRM will deflate ham radio's staunchest supporters -- those who value Morse code, traditions, and values. It is my sincere hope the Commission will reconsider this ill-fated proposal, and adopt a compromise that respects and preserves the long history and traditions that surround this service, while also being responsive to progressive digital techniques and the formation of “new” traditions."

So much for what was once a wonderful and respected service populated by skilled and knowledgable operators. Big business and the liberal gimme-gimme crowd have won. Please welcome the unwashed and unqualified masses to the "new" HF amateur radio service.

[V73NS]

The amateur service has provided the spark for many of the modern electronic things we have today, from satellites to cell phones.

Code didn't stop them, it was a challenge they accepted, as all of us "old farts" (if 45 is old, but I am QCWA) did.

Code was a thing of pride, not some hated thing. Being curious folks, we all were able to rise to such a minor challenge. More challenging was the technical side of the hobby. You needed math, you needed to know which oscillator was which etc.

Everything today is instant.
If they gave money away, it too would be meaningless.

The new ham license will become know as a Wheatie's boxtop ticket. Do nothing, just send it in and get a ticket back in the mail.

For an insight on the codeless HF bands, listen in on 11 meters or the freebanders and get used to it, change IS coming.

How many no-code Tech's are active once the battery pack on their HT burns out?

What's the renewal rate of Tech's?

Why does QST devote a article to soldering a PL-259 on?

What technical advancement may we hope for from the new breed? Hmmm... Roger Beeps, echo boxes, hamsticks with lights in them, bear reports on MIDCARS, swearing?

The FCC is doing no one any favors.

[ki4lhn]

Quote[/b] ]We do live in rotten times... ham radio is morphing into an less valuable service populated by less skilled, or unskilled, average citizens who won't value the spectrum like those who have gone before them.

You are probably very correct on this. I do agree that it is becoming more and more closely related to CB, which is very sad, and very weakening, however I believe that no code people who have passed element 3 should be able to have limited hf frequency use. I am not going to deny that CW is vital to the history of radio, and that it is the best form of communications in times of emergency, low power, or long distance communications, but there are some people with a good sense of civic duty that just can not learn code, or even if they do learn it, they will not have the ability to learn it well. These people may want to help out during emergencies and dont have full access to all the resources they need due to the lack of transmission ability.



Quote[/b] ]Realistically speaking, the Commission should modify this NPRM and keep the Morse code requirement for the EXTRA CLASS license - a class of license that should reflect extra effort, superior knowledge, and an operationally experienced operator. Moreover, the present NPRM doesn't present a win-win situation for all interested and involved parties - especially long-standing and experienced amateur operators.

I agree completely here, it should certainly be required for extra, possibly with some additional stuff on some of the various outher modes. I would say that perhaps the basic general test should include a more difficult test as well, possibly to compensate for the lack of morse requirement, and make it a good deal longer. I agree CW is important, but it is not all that there is, and I believe that some people need to be able to use certain bands that they do not have access to because of a mode that isnt even used on the particular frequency they need to use.

I am not so upset that there are people with views one way or the other, but the method of spreading each sides beliefs is causing a clear, and rather nasty devision in amateur radio. I could be completely wrong on my beliefs, I am willing to listen to advice of my elders, I just wish that there wasnt constly posts on the front page of QRZ pushing forward this dispute. I think the fighting really needs to stop before it starts spreading to our frequencies.

[w5alt]

Tom, the T.O.M. articles were published in QST back when it still had value.

Quote[/b] (N2MMM @ Sep. 04 2005,13:12)]... The CW requirement has to go and you guys who are fighting to keep it are generating animosity that is the very thing that will lead to CW sub bands getting abolished if Amateur Radio manages to survive this at all.
It's truly amazing that you think the article was all about CW!

Sort of reminds me of a song that had the line in it "You're so vain ... you probably think this song is about you ..."

Carry on. I won't interrupt.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[k4sdc]

Quote[/b] (ki4lhn @ Sep. 04 2005,20:43)]I think the fighting really needs to stop before it starts spreading to our frequencies.
Too late!!!

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (K8ERV @ Sep. 04 2005,10:15)]Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Sep. 03 2005,18:06)]I rather get the feeling that some are unaware that these kind of articles were printed monthly in QST many years ago.
Some of use don't get the overpriced QST--

TOM K8ERV #Montrose Colo
How is FREE "overpriced"? QST is free with your membership. The dues are for the big package of membership benefits, plus all the other things ARRL does for ham radio in general, not just for the magazine.

[K8ERV]

Nothing is free if you have to pay for it.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[w0lz]

OK! The membership is overpriced.

Make no mistake, though. The ARRL is selling magazines. Just drop QST and see where the membership goes.

[N2MMM]

The very name Society for the PRESERVATION of Amateur Radio brings to mind that the desire is to use the amateur bands as kind of a radio museum. The technologies which are RELEVANT to TODAY'S technically adept person have as much to do with configuring computer systems as it has to do with RF circuit design. Certainly, Safety is critical and I'd love to see the testing beefed up in that critical area. Yeah, we can make the tests MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. Asking questions which require calculations to answer would be a good start on the radio theory side of things. However, the easiest way to pass a multiple choice test of 30 questions drawn from a pool of 600 questions is to UNDERSTAND THE THEORY and STUDY THE REGULATIONS. Maybe a CW head can remember 600 answers, but I find that it makes more sense to KNOW why the answer is "C" and not "A". SPAR is counterproductive.

[k4sdc]

Okay, so buy the magazine and enjoy it. You get the membership as an extra. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[w0lz]

The FCC started dumming down #(I don’t like that phrase either) licenses years ago when they eliminated the First Class Radio Telephone Operators License, to appease the broadcast industry. Now, they have done the same with the amateur license to serve the ARRL’s interest, which is not mine. #

It is like Wayne Green is running the FCC, Lee Iacocca is chairing the ARRL, and Forest Gump is amateur of the year. #You don’t know who some of those people are? #I didn’t think so.

When I attend club meetings, these days, I meet amateurs that cannot tune a transmitter, cut an antenna, or use a VTVM. #It would appear that amateurs, without skills, are in great demand today.

I will concede that I am hearing more no-code/low-code amateurs on CW lately. #I suspect that this is because a few new amateurs actually want to see for themselves what CW is all about. #The vast majority, however, appear to be content to turning knobs and talking on their base, rather than maintaining and operating their rigs.

I agree that Tom (That Old Man) was not focusing on CW. #His post rings true in many areas of our hobby. Much has been lost, while little has been gained.

[W2ILP]

The old and the new ARRL had (and has) to deal with a mixed bag, which is the only way I can refer to the hobby of amateur radio.
We had a great TRADITION.
We had a great TECHNOLOGY.
I said "HAD" because I dunno if either our traditions or our technical advancement of the communication art can survive in future decades.

We once helped provide skilled radio telegraphers for the military and commercial requirements of the United States.
We once were the first civilians to have portable and mobile two way communication systems, often made available for emergency operation.
We once were welcomed into schools and universities to help train new members into our hobby.

All of the above are now fading into history.

Our old dying traditions were not unlike some fraternal and charitible organizations...Our abreviations are no longer recognized as well as CB and computer speak. Our Wouff Hong is not even familiar to most newbies. Our long cherished QSL card exchanging have been replaced by computer sites and a commercialized data base. Most of our equipment is being designed in Japan and built in China.
Few new hams build there own equipment... even from kits.

There is no question that even without considering the elimination of Morse code exams, fixed Q & A exams have dumbed down required license tests from what they once were.

When we critisize the ARRL, we must ask.... How much of this is our own fault? How much is their fault? Have hams, ham clubs and ham organizations lived up to the BASIS and PURPOSE of ham radio as described by the FCC in part 97.

We can love the ARRL for all that they have done in the past to preserve the hobby...
or we can blame the ARRL for allowing the hobby to evolve as it has today...and if we do... We can blame ourseves too.

Unlike TV viewers, stereo and game players and computer users, amateur radio operators are in my humble opinion, supposed to be somewhat more than passive belly buttons. Anyone can throw money at a hobby and buy equipment and put together a ham station. The sellers of equipment may be the supporters of the ARRL, but to think that the ARRL just sees us as a market nitch for specialized equipment, most of which is manufactured overseas, is certainly debatable.

There are two ARRLs. One is made up of volunteers, who I would hope have the interest of ham radio in mind....At least as they see it. The other is a paid staff of people working for a publishing company. THIS IS SURELY A CONFLICT OF INTERESTS IN MY OPINION. Is it all that bad? Maybe not and that is why I remain a member of the ARRL. I have been a ham for 54 years. I have been paying my ARRL dues for 40 years. I am not a life member of the ARRL. I prefer to have the option of quiting if and when their conflict of interest outweighs, what I may feel is fair for the maintanence, as well as preservation of ham radio TRADITIONS and TECHNOLOGY.

I am not smart enough to suggest all that needs to be done. I will however say that opening up the hobby by making easy entry in hopes of getting more members is not the right way to go. To assure the future of the hobby we need dedicated hams, who will stick to the hobby, and not forsake it for what they may conceive as the next "high tech" fad.

Enuf sed.

73,
w2ilp (Insure Lasting Preservation?)

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (KC0LXK @ Sep. 03 2005,07:21)]Just another rant on how things have changed (presumably for the worst) by an old man that longs for the way things were. #This is the third such posting on the front page of QRZ.com in a week on the topic from members of SPAR. #Could you at least spread it out a little bit? #You know, save one for next week? #Then again they probably have dozens of ways to rephrase their lament for the ending of Morse code testing and will have another essay for us in a couple days.

One thing that bothers me most about this tradition that SPAR keeps bringing up is how they wish to preserve it. #They want to keep the Morse code test as the tradition rather than Morse code use as the tradition. #I suspect that the ARRL Code Proficiency certificates will be available for some time. #I would also think that CW contests will also continue. #I don't think much will truly change once the NPRM becomes rule. #Test or no test if you want the tradition to live on you have to convince people to actually use that skill after they have their license.

SPAR keeps asking us to respect tradition and keep the testing. #Many have said this before but I will say it again, if the tradition needs the support of law to continue then it is not much of a tradition. #Some traditions were not meant to be. #I say we let the Amateur community decide. #After the NPRM to end Morse code testing become rule there will be nothing to prevent someone from learning and using Morse code. #If it proves useful, as it has in the recent flooding, then not only will the tradition of Morse code use continue but so will the tradition of Amateurs helping out when needed most.

The FCC is not trying to kill a tradition, they are just updating the law to reflect current realities. #There is no legal reason to require Morse code use. #That is all it comes down to, the FCC cannot require the use of Morse code. #In that case the requirement for Morse code knowledge before getting a license serves no legal purpose. #The testing may serve to continue a tradition but the FCC is not bound to respect that tradition.

Move along people, nothing to see here.
Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for. They do not understand for some of us it sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard…fun? If CW is to remain they (they being the pro-Code group) will have to change their strategy from, “I had to so you must” to Hey this is fun, this is really great, want to learn, no? Oh well your loss, I having so much fun…

Did any one read Tom Sawyer, & Huck Finn? You remember the fence white wash job? Rather than bellyaching that your precious mode will no longer be tested for, and condemning the NCT for it, try a different approach, read Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn.
For those who haven’t or are too lazy to read it…
He made a tedious job of painting a fence, but he made it look like fun, and had kids wanting to TRADE / PAY him to do it.

Because I promise that honey will draw people to try to learn it, and vinegar will drive them away. So far your VINEGAR has driven many away from it. Just think about it.

CW Will most likely never entirely die out too many enjoy the mode. But at the current rate of belittlement and lambasting of the NCT’s your numbers will not increase.

There are those who you will never convince to learn anything this is true, But many do want to learn, especially the technical end of things. Poor attitudes are being reflected in both camps in the endless debate, Hate and anger are at all time high levels. It truly is a sad day for Amateur Radio Service. Some on has to throw a wrench in to this P&M sessions to get REASON back into the discussion.

To the OT’s if a young buck refuses to listen to you why rant, just ignore…
To the NCT if the OT’s refuse to listen to you, why rant, just ignore...
To both, what good can become of a shouting/anger/belittlement/argumentative attitude anyway?

[w0lz]

I am also a member of the ARRL, Robert, for many of the same reasons you mentioned. #I still reserve the right to criticize the league for as long as they take my money and claim to represent me.

Your post is level headed, and to the point. # I agree with almost all of it. # Besides, how could anyone argue with someone who could build an aircraft that could take off in less than a mile? # #Just kidding. #It was a great aircraft for what it was designed to do..

Win

[N2WEC]

I siscerely hope you don't wind up with a pulmonary carcinoma or a carcinoma of the lips and oral cavity from your pipe. Those days my friend are not gone, so what are you crying about?

[WA4RYW]

You know, another thing that comes to mind. I don't remember the fanatical obsession with emergency services in the 70s and early 80s. Almost ALL the new hams are obsessive with ARES and weather spotting. Sure, some hams back then were involved in that kind of stuff, but it wasn't the driving force of the masses. Sure, most would do what they could if needed, but back then only a SMALL handfull ran HF mobile, and two meters was new and expensive. A LOT of hams didn't like repeater communications because it wasn't "ham radio". Reminds me of the IRLP/Echolink arguments today. I was one of the few in the area that ran HF mobile, and I sacreficed my passenger seat to a Yaseu FT-101ZD and tuner. Most of the hams I associated with were technical experimenters, always looking for a better antenna or modifying their equipment to enhance performance. I DID know a couple of guys that was involved in RACES, but they were both ex-military and also involved in MARS, more interested in NETs and traffic handling than the tinkering. And that raises another point; I NEVER HEARD of a two meter emergency or traffic net until the 90s. All traffic nets were held on HF where repeaters weren't required and substantial range could be counted on without aid of extra technology, or in other words, the very benefit amateur radio brought to the table. These were the days before satellite trucks, handheld satellite phones, and portable repeaters proliferated as well. One of the things that inspired me most to become a ham was an article I read on Senator Barry Goldwater. During the Viet Nam war, Senator Goldwater used his amateur radio station to relay phone patches of troups in theatre to their homes back in the states. This was a service that was not available otherwise, especially for those in the field. Today, deployed military use Internet videophones to call home at will, and exchange email much like we do. This service as well is no longer needed. How many of you guys even HAVE a phone patch?

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] ]MMM: The very name Society for the PRESERVATION of Amateur Radio brings to mind that the desire is to use the amateur bands as kind of a radio museum.

Quote[/b] ]Statement of Principles

The Society for the Preservation of Amateur Radio recognizes and supports the legal definition of the amateur radio service in all of the countries where this service is defined.

The Society for the Preservation of Amateur Radio does not endorse or encourage any illegal actions. We believe it is the duty of all amateur radio operators to operate within the legal requirements of their respective governments.

The Society for the Preservation of Amateur Radio is a non-partisan group of concerned amateur radio operators working together to ensure the vitality of the Amateur Radio Service as defined in the US Legal Code 47 CFR Part 97, especially the purposes embodied in 97.1:

* (a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
* (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
* © Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.
* (d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
* (e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

It is our belief that the technical nature of the Amateur Radio Service is clearly acknowledged in the US by the FCC, particularly in Part 97.1, items (b), © and (d), which comprise 3 of the 5 reasons for the establishment of the Service. Similarly, we believe the International Telecommunications Union has underscored the necessity to maintain at least minimal standards of technical and operational skill within the amateur community in ITU Article 25.6, which says, "Administrations shall verify the operational and technical qualifications of any person wishing to operate an amateur station. Guidance for standards of competence may be found in the most recent version of Recommendation ITU-R M.1544."

We acknowledge the proud history of technical and non-technical contributions that amateur radio operators have made to radio communications technology and strive to ensure that the Amateur Radio Service preserves traditional operating modes and remains able to continue to meet the technical challenges that will be required in the future.

We believe that failure to require adequate entry-level skills will lead to chaos on the amateur bands, which are an internationally shared resource, and that inadequate enforcement of the regulations governing amateur radio will render the service useless and drive away those persons who could most contribute to the "advancement of the radio art".

We believe that it is important for the survival of the Amateur Radio Service that continuous advancement in "skills in both the communications and technical phase of the [radio] art" be encouraged.

We believe that the Amateur Radio Service should be open to all interested persons. Due to the inherent technical nature of amateur radio communication, it is important to ensure that amateur radio operators possess at least minimum skills and that the regulations concerning the Amateur Radio Service must encourage the further development of "trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts."

We further believe that, due to the inherent nature of amateur radio, technical skills contribute directly to the "value of the amateur service to the public" and the "amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill."

If you're going to comment, at least know what you're talking about.

[ki4lhn]

I know for a fact that all the fighting on public, commonly accessed forums is driving away people interested in the hobby. No one want to be in a place where there is so much division.

Many have made a point that radio in general is changing, that people cant build their own radios, that people cant do much of the homebrewing that was done of more experienced hams. I agree with this assessment. Many new hams -cant-.

I am not really able to speak for the rest of the country, but I havent had a single person until two days ago even offer to help me with morse. I havent seen a very receptive group of people who really want to teach the growing populace of newer hams the fine arts of building a radio, or setting up an emergency antenna. If you are really afraid of the degredation of the hobby, be more influential in spreading it.

I am sure that the majority of the people on this forum are active in trying to spread their skills, but I am also sure that there are a few that arent. For those that arent and are sending all their complaints onto a message board, it would be a better way to spread your belief by teaching rather than fighting. In this instance, I agree with the earlier post about honey and vinegar.

Though I am making a point to say that others need to help, I must appologize for making it sound like the lack of the advancement of newer amateurs is strictly the fault of the older. The newer people do not ask to be taught. Only one person has presented me with an offer to teach, however I have asked no one to teach me (due to a lack of time I can allocate to learn). I know we should ask to learn about some of the various aspects of radio use, but a lot of us do not realize how much there is that can be done. We cant be expect to ask to learn something if we dont know it is there. Prove to us it is active, show us it is not archaic, show us it is useful.

If you want us to build a radio, tell us the joys of building it, tell us about the thrill of acomplishment, offer to help us in the endevor, or at the very least offer us a spark so we might learn to value the wisdom of those who came before us. People wont ask until they know that there is more.

Just stop bickering and complaining long enough to show this newer section of the community what you have to offer. They will come to you if you do.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (N2MMM @ Sep. 05 2005,07:44)]The very name Society for the PRESERVATION of Amateur Radio brings to mind that the desire is to use the amateur bands as kind of a radio museum.
"Preserve" means to keep for future use, certainly not as a museum. Or don't you eat "preserves" on your toast or biscuit in the morning?

All "preserve" means re: ham radio is to keep the fact that we even have ham radio bands.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,10:21)]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,22:14)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,10:21)]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
As someone once said: "That dog won't hunt"

If it needs to be REQUIRED then it has no legs of its own, if it can stand on its own then there is no need to REQUIRE the test. It's as simple as that. The hype that without it the ARS will be destroyed is hogwash, only those who wish to demean each other will destroy it. No one is trying to eliminate CW from the airways. You can use it in any part of any band. Dit Da away my friend and enjoy it. But my statement stands. If the only way to keep something alive is by artificial means it then is dead anyway, otherwise it will continue on it own accord.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,15:26)]No one is trying to eliminate CW from the airways.
Somebody is not reading the posts on QRZ.com and eHam.com. Quite a few are trying to do just that.

[N2MMM]

They won't stop me from using CW. Nope, Ain't gonna happen..

[AC0GT]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,16:33)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,15:26)]No one is trying to eliminate CW from the airways.
Somebody is not reading the posts on QRZ.com and eHam.com. #Quite a few are trying to do just that.
How would they do that? Do you think that they would petition the FCC to make CW illegal? Do you actually think that they would be successful in convincing the FCC to do so?

Don't look now but your paranoia is showing.

[N2MMM]

Quote[/b] (KC0LXK @ Sep. 05 2005,17:18)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,16:33)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,15:26)]No one is trying to eliminate CW from the airways.
Somebody is not reading the posts on QRZ.com and eHam.com. #Quite a few are trying to do just that.
How would they do that? #Do you think that they would petition the FCC to make CW illegal? #Do you actually think that they would be successful in convincing the FCC to do so?

Don't look now but your paranoia is showing.
Boy, you've got that right. Paranoid

[wa4dou]

KI4LHN, I think you're confused. Apparently you think that older hams bear a responsibility to teach you all about amateur radio. Most of us taught ourselves via books, magazines and doing. If you really are interested in radio, you'll do the same.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (KC0LXK @ Sep. 05 2005,17:18)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,16:33)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,15:26)]No one is trying to eliminate CW from the airways.
Somebody is not reading the posts on QRZ.com and eHam.com. #Quite a few are trying to do just that.
How would they do that? #Do you think that they would petition the FCC to make CW illegal? #Do you actually think that they would be successful in convincing the FCC to do so?

Don't look now but your paranoia is showing.
Sorry, OM. No paranoia here, but even if there was, you should remember the old saying:
"Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get ya!"

Kidding aside, many have made their goal abundantly clear, both on the websites, and in NPRM comments. How on earth can you read those and honestly believe they don't mean what they are saying? And who would have believed recent actions of FCC just a few years ago?

[K3UD]

There are several ways it could happen.

1. The FCC outlaws it just as did Spark. It does not matter why they would, what matters is that they could for whatever reason. In the 60s and 70s there were strident calls for the FCC to outlaw AM. It did not happen, but it could have as there WERE supporters of the idea.

Odds 10,000/1 or worse.

2. Depending on the regulation by bandwidth proposal that comes into being, It could be something which allows every mode regardless of bandwidth to occupy ANY open spot within the allocations. There are those in the ARS who feel that this is the way it should be. As Skip, KH6TY points out, phone will expand everywhere it is allowed to. There are also some who want virtually unregulated auto-bots anywhere they can go and there are calls for 20 kHz digital modes to share the HF spectrum. While there is talk of restricting various modes into various bandwidth segments, who knows if it would happen. All of this could serve to severely limit CW use on HF do to interference problems and eventually all but kill the mode.

Odds - not yet posted because of lack of information.

73
George
K3UD

[k6faf]

"2 bits on" (I thank the person who came up with it)

Yada, Yada, Yada
or: We have heard it all before
or: Same people posting here
or: S.P.A.R. launching another post
or: We are fed up with seeing S.P.A.R on the main page
or: Continuing the in-fight code/no-code
or: Deepening the GAP between code/no-code

You hams out there, think a minute:
-what does S.P.A.R. want (posted above); so they have to post here and elsewhere
-why do they do it again and again (check out the website)
-why don't they stop (check out the website)

They have a right to post.....

Although I think and agree with some hams here:
-doing it in public will drive similar minds to sign up
-doing it in public will keep readers from joining ARS
-doing it in public will keep techs from learning code
-doing it in public is not in their best interest
-doing it in public will not close the gap code/no-code

So much to S.P.A.R., and I certainly will not go any deeper.....like looking up lists e.t.c....linking...


It seems to me that the "Old tired man" approach to keep the fire burning is as much a shot in the foot as an attempt to emotionalize. Very clever and not at all at the same time, depending on who you are aiming at. Using the internet for "Propaganda" and at the same time fighting for "Tradition" is quite "political", but it does not cut my bread.

If it smells like one, looks like one, I guess it is .....

Other than that, I believe a Ham is a Ham, the moment he/she gets the ticket.

# #IT IS US, THE OTs, TO TEACH THEM WHAT THAT MEANS, TO BE A HAM!
AND #IT DOES NOT ANY MORE INCLUDE CODE PROFICIENCY, I BELIEVE.

Or did I read the NRPM with earphones on my eyes?

That is all I have to post on the code/no-code gap that divides our service/hobby.
I am fed up with stubbornness, manipulating of phrases, misinterpreting, directed misunderstanding, quoting out of context e.t.c. to bring the same message out again and again.....

73s to all well meaning HAMS, the others may have their own club, as long as it lasts.

k6faf, OT, DL-Extra, US General (lite), soon EXTRA-lite.

"2 bits off"
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[k6faf]

" 2bits on"
P.S.
I am an ARRL member and going to be a life member, as soon as I am able to afford the dues.
Want to know why? OK, here it is:
-We have to be represented in DC
-There is no other organisation representing more HAMs
-I reserve the right to disagree, but will accept being outvoted by the majority
-I will respect the directions offered by the IARU, even if I personally disagree (See my other posts here)

73s to all well-meaning HAMS, the others may have their own club, as long as it lasts.

k6faf, OT, DL-EXTRA, US-GENERAL (lite), soon EXTRA-lite

"2 bits off"

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[k6faf]

2 bits on

P.P.S.

I hope I quote right:

It's not the class of license an Amateur holds, it's the class of Amateur that holds the license...
and allow me to prolong...that shows the HAM!

73s de k6faf

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[kb3mng]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,16:33)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,15:26)]No one is trying to eliminate CW from the airways.
Somebody is not reading the posts on QRZ.com and eHam.com. Quite a few are trying to do just that.
I've seen many arguments that we shouldn't require a test for morse code. I don't recall seeing any saying that use of morse code should be forbidden.

Sheer volume prevents me reading them all, though. Could you cite a few URLs so I can see what they are saying? (If there are multiple messages on a page, be sure to mention which ones.)

I favor dropping the morse code test, but I can't imagine any compelling argument to forbid use of morse code.

[wa4dou]

The faction beginning to oppose cw use on the air wouldn't know a coherent arguement if it bit them on the behind. You could more successfully argue that wider bandwidth modes should be done away with in order to use spectrum more effectively and efficiently.

[N2MMM]

There is NO coherent argument against the use of CW on Amateur Radio frequencies. however such a movement could arise due to the animosity generated by such things as "Rotten Times".

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (N2MMM @ Sep. 06 2005,05:09)]There is NO coherent argument against the use of CW on Amateur Radio frequencies.
Thank you for your support of CW. Human deciphered code is the only mode that works through auroral flutter, and anyone who is a real ham should be skilled at its use.

73,
Dave/al2i

[n9lya]

Hi Walt,
Very well written and nice posting... I enjoyed reading it and seeing it on QRZ..
I cannot agree more...

By the way.. For the rest of you.. I am not an OLD TIMER...
Started out as a No-Code Tech.. But I did go beyond the No-Code and take the CW test.. Studied for two weeks and passed.. Cw is nice all you No-Codes should try it and yes it does take a bit of effort and time out of your day to study.. But you will feel better about yourself.. I used to think I could never get it... For years I tried to pass the Code test... Years before the No-Code tech came to be... I since then found the problem was listening to all those who said it was simply to tough.. So I did something about it...
I got out and studied several hours a day for two solid weeks.. I never noticed much diufference in the amount of time I was spending studying vs the amout of time I spent doing useless things , like watch TV or other non-productive tasks..
We are talking two weeks.. Less time then it takes to go on a meaningful vacation... Spend your next Vacation exploring and studying the World of CW... You will be glad you did.. Make it a family vacation.. Their is strength and motivation in numbers.. Or find a friend who also wants to learn... I have some really good code tapes.. I recommend... But Study material is a personal choice.. and everyone responds differently to the various modes of study...
I used the RADIO Shack tapes.. (Yea I do not think much of Radio Shack.. they went belly up when they switched from a parts store to an aplliance store.. ) But these code tapes (not sure they still sell them) are exceptional.. The Narrator knows just what you need.. When to study when to take a break when to through is some humor...

Take care all..



My 2 Cents...

73 Jerry N9LYA

[k5mke]

Quote[/b] (KC0LXK @ Sep. 03 2005,00:21)]Just another rant on how things have changed (presumably for the worst) by an old man that longs for the way things were. This is the third such posting on the front page of QRZ.com in a week on the topic from members of SPAR. Could you at least spread it out a little bit? You know, save one for next week? Then again they probably have dozens of ways to rephrase their lament for the ending of Morse code testing and will have another essay for us in a couple days.

One thing that bothers me most about this tradition that SPAR keeps bringing up is how they wish to preserve it. They want to keep the Morse code test as the tradition rather than Morse code use as the tradition. I suspect that the ARRL Code Proficiency certificates will be available for some time. I would also think that CW contests will also continue. I don't think much will truly change once the NPRM becomes rule. Test or no test if you want the tradition to live on you have to convince people to actually use that skill after they have their license.

SPAR keeps asking us to respect tradition and keep the testing. Many have said this before but I will say it again, if the tradition needs the support of law to continue then it is not much of a tradition. Some traditions were not meant to be. I say we let the Amateur community decide. After the NPRM to end Morse code testing become rule there will be nothing to prevent someone from learning and using Morse code. If it proves useful, as it has in the recent flooding, then not only will the tradition of Morse code use continue but so will the tradition of Amateurs helping out when needed most.

The FCC is not trying to kill a tradition, they are just updating the law to reflect current realities. There is no legal reason to require Morse code use. That is all it comes down to, the FCC cannot require the use of Morse code. In that case the requirement for Morse code knowledge before getting a license serves no legal purpose. The testing may serve to continue a tradition but the FCC is not bound to respect that tradition.

Move along people, nothing to see here.


Gary,

I think you missed the most important part of the post. It's not about tha code, it's about #1. the lack of respect of the wishes that the A.R.R.L. has towards the average Amatuer operator. This not only includes the disrespect towards the League's members, but the non-members as well.

When the League was formed, lo those many years ago. The Leagues focus was the whole of Amateur radio operators, not just the ones who joined. It was this concern for all that got non-members to join. Today, it's all about money. If you don't belong then you can't see technical articles or ask for help. You must join if you want that.

Now, without asking the whole Amateur community, they want to allow digital, unlicensed, bots to be allowed to pass I-net traffic without regards to interference to on-going QSO's, etc.

#2. The League has turned their back on those who spew filth and racist remarks. No, they are not discussing NASCAR either. There IS no 'policing' of the airways as there used to be. The F.C.C. doesn't seem to care either.

Those that do curse and hurl racial epithets, have a *jerk* mentality of, if you don't want to hear it, turn the knob to *off* or change frequency!. The only problem with this is that I may not be the one listening at the time. I would hate to think that my 12 year old grandson or a lady, or even someone from another country, would hear this and think this is how American HAMS "talk"? The World already considers America as a pimple on the behind of the World and this only adds to those thoughts of us being uncooth and barberic.

Now, I'm no goody-two-shoes or some holier-than-thou. But, when I was 12 years old (1958), I heard some ham radio operators on 75m AM on a crystal radio set. They were proper Southern Gentlemen. There was no cursing, nor racist remarks. They spoke about radio technical stuff, joked, and even talked about their other hobbies and families. Life was good then.

Today, I pride myself my on-air conduct, as those gentlemen did decades ago. I hold myself to their high standard and expect other Hams to do so as well. Plain and simple courtsey.

I listen for five minutes and then ask if the frequency is clear, before starting a QSO. I don't slide up under or over an ongoing ssb QSO and fire up my AM transmitter either, interfering with them, as some ssb'ers do. I don't tune-up on-the-air, that is what dummy loads are for. Is this so wrong to do this? I think not and we all could learn to do better.

The code is going to be around forever, no doubt. I'll be using it more and more, just because. If someone has no desire to use code, so be it. I can respect that. Just don't drop a digital or ssb signal on my AM or CW.

Respectfully,
73,

Buck/K5~MKE

[wa4dou]

The ones who wanted code testing abolished and who will no doubt move on to having all technical content in the written exams also abolished are the ones who fomented the agitation that exists today in amateur radio. Those divisions will never heal. "rotten times" did not start it !

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (n9lya @ Sep. 05 2005,23:45)]Hi Walt,
Very well written and nice posting... I enjoyed reading it and seeing it on QRZ..
I cannot agree more...

By the way.. For the rest of you.. I am not an OLD TIMER...
Started out as a No-Code Tech.. But I did go beyond the No-Code and take the CW test.. Studied for two weeks and passed.. Cw is nice all you No-Codes should try it and yes it does take a bit of effort and time out of your day to study.. But you will feel better about yourself.. I used to think I could never get it... For years I tried to pass the Code test... Years before the No-Code tech came to be... I since then found the problem was listening to all those who said it was simply to tough.. So I did something about it...
I got out and studied several hours a day for two solid weeks.. I never noticed much diufference in the amount of time I was spending studying vs the amout of time I spent doing useless things , like watch TV or other non-productive tasks..
We are talking two weeks.. Less time then it takes to go on a meaningful vacation... Spend your next Vacation exploring and studying the World of CW... You will be glad you did.. Make it a family vacation.. Their is strength and motivation in numbers.. Or find a friend who also wants to learn... I have some really good code tapes.. I recommend... But Study material is a personal choice.. and everyone responds differently to the various modes of study...
I used the RADIO Shack tapes.. (Yea I do not think much of Radio Shack.. they went belly up when they switched from a parts store to an aplliance store.. ) But these code tapes (not sure they still sell them) are exceptional.. The Narrator knows just what you need.. When to study when to take a break when to through is some humor...

Take care all..



My 2 Cents...

73 Jerry N9LYA
Bravo N9LYA on becoming a real Ham! I commend you on your efforts in learning CW, see (all you no coders) it only took him two weeks to master it well enough to pass the test. And now he's finding out what a wonderful mode it is to copy by ear and send by hand, not to mention all the DX that are easy pickins, unlike on phone where you call and call with about 300 others for hours on end, on CW you usually get the DX station by the third call at least. Again nice job Jerry. 73 de W2CO

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 06 2005,12:30)]Quote[/b] (N2MMM @ Sep. 06 2005,05:09)]There is NO coherent argument against the use of CW on Amateur Radio frequencies.
Thank you for your support of CW. #Human deciphered code is the only mode that works through auroral flutter, and anyone who is a real ham should be skilled at its use.

73,
#Dave/al2i
Sorry to pick at your "Real Ham" term Dave, but a "Real Ham" comes from a PIG, along with ribs and porkchops ect.
But a "Real Amateur Radio Operator" is anyone who is duly licenced by the FCC, not by an ability to operate on a particular mode of operation. I know several Non-Hams that can operate code but care less oabout Radio.

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 06 2005,02:30)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 06 2005,12:30)]Quote[/b] (N2MMM @ Sep. 06 2005,05:09)]There is NO coherent argument against the use of CW on Amateur Radio frequencies.
Thank you for your support of CW. #Human deciphered code is the only mode that works through auroral flutter, and anyone who is a real ham should be skilled at its use.

73,
#Dave/al2i
Sorry to pick at your "Real Ham" term Dave, but a "Real Ham" comes from a PIG, along with ribs and porkchops ect.
But a "Real Amateur Radio Operator" is anyone who is duly licenced by the FCC, not by an ability to operate on a particular mode of operation. I know several Non-Hams that can operate code but care less oabout Radio.
Yeah and I know several no code techs that think they are real hams but are nothing but glorified CB/appliance operators too. And they can really bellyache on just about any topic too. Gee does this sound familiar here on QRZ?

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (KC0UWS @ Sep. 06 2005,02:47)]If I was forced to take the CW exam now, I know I would pass it. But we have some members in one of the club who like to tap their pencils and make weird sounds. that is 1 reason why I failed it. I should go to one of the BARC VE sessions because they are all quiet and are very friendly.
Well I wasn't really talking about you Brandon, but now that you brought it up, when are you going to take the exam? (you've been studying CW for over 6mos.) There is a swapfest on the 17th in Loveland. I can take you if you want. Also I can give you a practice test before that if you want. Come on be a real ham before it's too late.

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (KC0UWS @ Sep. 06 2005,03:09)]well just look at IUK who really hates CW. It would be helpful to take a practice exam before the actual session.

Say "Hello" to Jerry for me.
Yes I know all about them. By the way they are being replaced at the next board meeting I believe tomorrow. Ray will now be Prez. and WA2EKU was nominated as Vice Prez., so maybe now there will be some resemblence of a real club. And Jerry says to ask you when you are going to return his antenna analyzer???
Are you moving? What about the club's hf rig??? I think they were wondering where that was.

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (W2CO @ Sep. 06 2005,03:18)]Quote[/b] (KC0UWS @ Sep. 06 2005,03:09)]well just look at IUK who really hates CW. It would be helpful to take a practice exam before the actual session.

Say "Hello" to Jerry for me.
Yes I know all about them. By the way they are being replaced at the next board meeting I believe tomorrow. Ray will now be Prez. and WA2EKU was nominated as Vice Prez., so maybe now there will be some resemblence of a real club. And Jerry says to ask you when you are going to return his antenna analyzer???
Are you moving? What about the club's hf rig??? I think they were wondering where that was.
Oh he won't answer that. See everyone here is a perfect example of what we are going to get as "new" hams after the ultimate dumbing down happens. This kid (KC0UWS) has gone through at least 3 elmers in the time I've known him (about 1 year). He changed his call recently from "KC0TKB" for some reason, must have pissed someone off real bad or perhaps got kicked off a board and by changing his call he could get back on is my guess but who knows??? He continually back stabs anyone who even tries to help him, borrows equipment from individuals and clubs and never brings it back unless he is hunted down. He has been reported to the FCC for illegal operation in the 40 meter extra CW band sending "CQ UX CQ UX CQ UX de 7O2CX" over and over again until he had a small pile up but never answered anyones call because he really doesn't know the code. For all you pro CW guys, notice how he confused the "U" for a "D". By the way he came straight from the CB band. Multiply this individual by 20,000 and you will have what is going to be like in two years.

[aa1mn]

Now you say you're lonely
You cried the long night through
Well, you can cry me a river
Cry me a river
I cried a river over you
Now you say you're sorry
For being so untrue
Well, you can cry me a river
Cry me a river
I cried a river over you
You drove me,
Nearly drove me out of my head
While you never shed a tear
Remember?
I remember all that you said
Told me love was to plebeian
Told me you were through with me
Now you say you love me
Well, just to prove you do
Cry me a river
Cry me a river
I cried a river over you
You drove me
Nearly drove me out of my head
While you never shed a tear
Remember?
I remember all that you said
Told me love was to plebeian
Told me you were through with me...
And now you say you love me
Well, just to prove that you do...
Come on! Come on!
Cry me a river...
Cry me a river...
I cried a river over you
I cried a river over you...

Good bye, tired old man, good bye and good riddence to bad trash!

Chuck, AA1MN

[VE7RFH]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,15:14)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,10:21)]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
Pray tell us how removing Morse Code proficiency as a license requirement by itself will in any way bring about the death of the mode by itself? Those who find it appealing will learn it and use it, just like any other mode. Those who don't may just decide not to sit the license test at all because of it and the hobby will be the loser. #

Personally I would rather hear more operators on HF period, than see the overall number of hams continue to decline at an ever increasing rate exacerbated by the imposed requirement to master a language they have no interest in mastering. #

Mastering the sending and receiving of the language of Morse Code is very different from gaining a technical understanding of the principles of transmitting and receiving CW, SSB, SSTV or any one of the plethora of new modes we have to choose from nowadays.

Morse Code is a language art which does not demand any understanding of the principles of electricity or how circuitry functions or the radio regulations. Learning and using Morse Code does not require any technical electronic skills, it can be done tapping a finger on a tabletop, with flashlights or even knocking on pipes with wrenches! #

Good operating practises apply as much to voice operation as they do to Morse Code, and indeed most other non-automated modes. #Learning Morse Code in and of itself does nothing to inculcate good operating practises which can be learned equally well if not better with voice.

Like any language, Morse Code will not survive by legislation alone. #If people are not interested in speaking it it will disappear from common usage whether legislated or not. The key is to ensure peole WANT to continue using it of their own free will. #Forcing people to learn any language against their will only engenders resentment and discontent and is surely counterproductive as far as proponents of Morse Code are concerned.

I say it is better to remove non-technical barriers to people becoming licensed HF operators, we surely need to encourage newcomers not put them off. #Once they become licensed Hams, then promote Morse Code to them as a desirable, useful and enjoyable mode like any other.

The art of communicating via Morse Code is valuable, it is like having another language which will often keep working when all else fails. #But a second language should not be a requirement for obtaining a ham radio operator's license. The emphasis there should be on whether the candidate has gained a sufficient basic understanding of the technical aspects of the hobby including ALL available modes, and has an adequate knowledge the governing radio regulations.

[n0klu]

Quote[/b] (VE7RFH @ Sep. 06 2005,17:03)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,15:14)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,10:21)]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
Pray tell us how removing Morse Code proficiency as a license requirement by itself will in any way bring about the death of the mode by itself? Those who find it appealing will learn it and use it, just like any other mode. Those who don't may just decide not to sit the license test at all because of it and the hobby will be the loser. #

Personally I would rather hear more operators on HF period, than see the overall number of hams continue to decline at an ever increasing rate exacerbated by the imposed requirement to master a language they have no interest in mastering. #

Mastering the sending and receiving of the language of Morse Code is very different from gaining a technical understanding of the principles of transmitting and receiving CW, SSB, SSTV or any one of the plethora of new modes we have to choose from nowadays.

Morse Code is a language art which does not demand any understanding of the principles of electricity or how circuitry functions or the radio regulations. Learning and using Morse Code does not require any technical electronic skills, it can be done tapping a finger on a tabletop, with flashlights or even knocking on pipes with wrenches! #

Good operating practises apply as much to voice operation as they do to Morse Code, and indeed most other non-automated modes. #Learning Morse Code in and of itself does nothing to inculcate good operating practises which can be learned equally well if not better with voice.

Like any language, Morse Code will not survive by legislation alone. #If people are not interested in speaking it it will disappear from common usage whether legislated or not. The key is to ensure peole WANT to continue using it of their own free will. #Forcing people to learn any language against their will only engenders resentment and discontent and is surely counterproductive as far as proponents of Morse Code are concerned.

I say it is better to remove non-technical barriers to people becoming licensed HF operators, we surely need to encourage newcomers not put them off. #Once they become licensed Hams, then promote Morse Code to them as a desirable, useful and enjoyable mode like any other.

The art of communicating via Morse Code is valuable, it is like having another language which will often keep working when all else fails. #But a second language should not be a requirement for obtaining a ham radio operator's license. The emphasis there should be on whether the candidate has gained a sufficient basic understanding of the technical aspects of the hobby including ALL available modes, and has an adequate knowledge the governing radio regulations.
Thank you VE7RFH, My sentiments exactly. Well said.

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 06 2005,04:29)]Quote[/b] (VE7RFH @ Sep. 06 2005,17:03)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,15:14)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,10:21)]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
Pray tell us how removing Morse Code proficiency as a license requirement by itself will in any way bring about the death of the mode by itself? Those who find it appealing will learn it and use it, just like any other mode. Those who don't may just decide not to sit the license test at all because of it and the hobby will be the loser. #

Personally I would rather hear more operators on HF period, than see the overall number of hams continue to decline at an ever increasing rate exacerbated by the imposed requirement to master a language they have no interest in mastering. #

Mastering the sending and receiving of the language of Morse Code is very different from gaining a technical understanding of the principles of transmitting and receiving CW, SSB, SSTV or any one of the plethora of new modes we have to choose from nowadays.

Morse Code is a language art which does not demand any understanding of the principles of electricity or how circuitry functions or the radio regulations. Learning and using Morse Code does not require any technical electronic skills, it can be done tapping a finger on a tabletop, with flashlights or even knocking on pipes with wrenches! #

Good operating practises apply as much to voice operation as they do to Morse Code, and indeed most other non-automated modes. #Learning Morse Code in and of itself does nothing to inculcate good operating practises which can be learned equally well if not better with voice.

Like any language, Morse Code will not survive by legislation alone. #If people are not interested in speaking it it will disappear from common usage whether legislated or not. The key is to ensure peole WANT to continue using it of their own free will. #Forcing people to learn any language against their will only engenders resentment and discontent and is surely counterproductive as far as proponents of Morse Code are concerned.

I say it is better to remove non-technical barriers to people becoming licensed HF operators, we surely need to encourage newcomers not put them off. #Once they become licensed Hams, then promote Morse Code to them as a desirable, useful and enjoyable mode like any other.

The art of communicating via Morse Code is valuable, it is like having another language which will often keep working when all else fails. #But a second language should not be a requirement for obtaining a ham radio operator's license. The emphasis there should be on whether the candidate has gained a sufficient basic understanding of the technical aspects of the hobby including ALL available modes, and has an adequate knowledge the governing radio regulations.
Thank you VE7RFH, My sentiments exactly. Well said.
What a bunch of No Code LIDS. The last guy said "cry me a river, I've cried a river for you". I doubt it, judging from your profile you have been licensed as an Extra Lite since 2003, and only operate 2m and 70cm. Wow that makes you the number 15047th no code lid. What happened to operating HF? And for N0KLU (where's your brother N0DOA?) I got three words for you - NO CODE LID.

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]The last guy said "cry me a river, I've cried a river for you". I doubt it, judging from your profile you have been licensed as an Extra Lite since 2003, and only operate 2m and 70cm. Wow that makes you the number 15047th no code lid.

Oh, boo hoo hoo, Tommy Wommy called me a no code lid. #

Is that the best you can Tommy Wommy?

This one's for you ...

Nobody knows the trouble that I've seen
Nobody knows my sorrow
Nobody knows the trouble that I've seen
Glory Hallelujah


Sometimes I'm up and sometimes I'm down
Yes lord, you know sometimes I'm almost to the ground
O yes, Lord, still


You got here before I do
O yes Lord, don't forget to tell all my friends I'm coming too

O yes Lord, still



Chuck, AA1MN

[wa4dou]

Amateur radio isn't dying. The ranks were artificially swelled by the elimination of code testing for the Technician license and the guys who felt they needed to recruit every Tom, Dick and Harry. Many of these folks had no real interest in radio and are falling away now.

[n0klu]

Poor old W2CO, He cant stand it. Would you like me to give you a razor blade so you can comitt suicide? Or you going to do it on your own?

[N2MMM]

Quote[/b] (W2CO @ Sep. 06 2005,10:45)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 06 2005,04:29)]Quote[/b] (VE7RFH @ Sep. 06 2005,17:03)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,15:14)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,10:21)]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
Pray tell us how removing Morse Code proficiency as a license requirement by itself will in any way bring about the death of the mode by itself? Those who find it appealing will learn it and use it, just like any other mode. Those who don't may just decide not to sit the license test at all because of it and the hobby will be the loser. #

Personally I would rather hear more operators on HF period, than see the overall number of hams continue to decline at an ever increasing rate exacerbated by the imposed requirement to master a language they have no interest in mastering. #

Mastering the sending and receiving of the language of Morse Code is very different from gaining a technical understanding of the principles of transmitting and receiving CW, SSB, SSTV or any one of the plethora of new modes we have to choose from nowadays.

Morse Code is a language art which does not demand any understanding of the principles of electricity or how circuitry functions or the radio regulations. Learning and using Morse Code does not require any technical electronic skills, it can be done tapping a finger on a tabletop, with flashlights or even knocking on pipes with wrenches! #

Good operating practises apply as much to voice operation as they do to Morse Code, and indeed most other non-automated modes. #Learning Morse Code in and of itself does nothing to inculcate good operating practises which can be learned equally well if not better with voice.

Like any language, Morse Code will not survive by legislation alone. #If people are not interested in speaking it it will disappear from common usage whether legislated or not. The key is to ensure peole WANT to continue using it of their own free will. #Forcing people to learn any language against their will only engenders resentment and discontent and is surely counterproductive as far as proponents of Morse Code are concerned.

I say it is better to remove non-technical barriers to people becoming licensed HF operators, we surely need to encourage newcomers not put them off. #Once they become licensed Hams, then promote Morse Code to them as a desirable, useful and enjoyable mode like any other.

The art of communicating via Morse Code is valuable, it is like having another language which will often keep working when all else fails. #But a second language should not be a requirement for obtaining a ham radio operator's license. The emphasis there should be on whether the candidate has gained a sufficient basic understanding of the technical aspects of the hobby including ALL available modes, and has an adequate knowledge the governing radio regulations.
Thank you VE7RFH, My sentiments exactly. Well said.
What a bunch of No Code LIDS. The last guy said "cry me a river, I've cried a river for you". I doubt it, judging from your profile you have been licensed as an Extra Lite since 2003, and only operate 2m and 70cm. Wow that makes you the number 15047th no code lid. What happened to operating HF? And for N0KLU (where's your brother N0DOA?) I got three words for you - NO CODE LID.
W2CO. Hmmm, You're a feisty one. 8-)
N2MMM No Code Lid # 0003576360

[N2MMM]

Quote[/b] (wa4dou @ Sep. 06 2005,11:02)]Amateur radio isn't dying. The ranks were artificially swelled by the elimination of code testing for the Technician license and the guys who felt they needed to recruit every Tom, Dick and Harry. Many of these folks had no real interest in radio and are falling away now.
There are quite a few of us early crop no coders floating around. Some of us upgraded and some of us stuck around 2 meters and 440 but I would say most of us are still around.

[ad4mg]

aa1mn:Quote[/b] ] # # Tommy Wommy? # #

This has got to represent a new low here. #Tommy Wommy???

# Tommy Wommy??? #

#Tommy Wommy??? #

"I canna hold 'er together much longer Jim, she's beginning to buckle!"

[VE7RFH]

Quote[/b] (W2CO @ Sep. 06 2005,10:45)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 06 2005,04:29)]Quote[/b] (VE7RFH @ Sep. 06 2005,17:03)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,15:14)][quote=n0klu,Sep. 05 2005,10:21]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
Pray tell us how removing Morse Code proficiency as a license requirement by itself will in any way bring about the death of the mode by itself? Those who find it appealing will learn it and use it, just like any other mode. Those who don't may just decide not to sit the license test at all because of it and the hobby will be the loser. #

snip...


What a bunch of No Code LIDS. The last guy said "cry me a river, I've cried a river for you". I doubt it, judging from your profile you have been licensed as an Extra Lite since 2003, and only operate 2m and 70cm. Wow that makes you the number 15047th no code lid. What happened to operating HF? And for N0KLU (where's your brother N0DOA?) I got three words for you - NO CODE LID.
For those who might doubt my credentials, I have been licensed and active for almost thirty-five years in several different countries. I was required to send and receive code for five minutes continuously at 13wpm with no uncorrected errors in order to earn my original HF endorsement and then was restricted to Morse Code operation exclusively for a year thereafter, had to show my logbook to the radio inspector before being permitted phone privileges.

That was then, this is now. #

I was an active proponent for the new licensing standards introduced in Canada a couple of months ago which remove the Morse Code proficiency requirement for HF privileges but introduces a higher written test passmark which is exactly where the emphasis ought to be placed. The sky has not fallen in Canada since these new no-code regulations were introduced.

I continue to advocate mastering the Morse Code and maintaining an on-air CW familiarity but legislating Morse Code proficiency for HF privileges is equivalent to demanding voice operators meet an elocution or language skill standard or SSTV operators meet a dress code or test card creativity requirements and data mode operators a minimum typing speed. #
Where is the real relevance?

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (VE7RFH @ Sep. 06 2005,10:03)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,15:14)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 05 2005,10:21)]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
Pray tell us how removing Morse Code proficiency as a license requirement by itself will in any way bring about the death of the mode by itself?
Nobody said it would!

(at least that I heard, except maybe some of the anti-CW folks).

[wa4dou]

VE7RFH, in America our written testing is so inadaquate that the morse testing represents the only real test of practicality. With that removed, the amateur license is virtually free. Thats the cause of uproar. Why don't we just eliminate the pretense and abolish all testing. Some won't be happy until thats done anyway.

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (ad4mg @ Sep. 06 2005,05:25)]aa1mn:Quote[/b] ] # # Tommy Wommy? # #

This has got to represent a new low here. #Tommy Wommy???

# Tommy Wommy??? #

#Tommy Wommy??? #

"I canna hold 'er together much longer Jim, she's beginning to buckle!"
Yep that is what happens when the no code lids can't take it (the truth). They can sure dish it out, but can't take the real truth when it slaps them in the face. No Code = LID. And as for that riddler guy, you have watched too much batman on TV is all I can say. Man you sound wierd indeed. Anybody can type on a keyboard, but only real hams use CW.

[VE7RFH]

Quote[/b] (wa4dou @ Sep. 06 2005,12:13)]VE7RFH, in America our written testing is so inadaquate that the morse testing represents the only real test of practicality. With that removed, the amateur license is virtually free. Thats the cause of uproar. Why don't we just eliminate the pretense and abolish all testing. Some won't be happy until thats done anyway.
I have read comments from some that the Canadian written test is somewhat more extensive than the US one but I can claim no first hand knowledge on the subject. If what you say is true and I have little reason to doubt you, surely then the pressure ought to be on the FCC to raise the standard of the written exam which is much more meaningful than continuing to rely on Morse Code proficiency which really doesn't prove anything?

[W2ILP]

I wrote a poem about the future preservation of CW in 1998. It was sent to the old rec.radio.amateur group and it was printed in "CQ de WA2LQO", which is the newsletter of the Grumman Amateur Radio Club.
The poem was inspired by Oliver Wendel Holm's poem "Old Ironsides". Holms wanted the government to preserve an old ship called the U.S. Constitution, and nick named "Old Ironsides", although it was obsolete. He wrote the poem to call for sympathy for its preservation.

In a similar frame of mind I dedicate my poem to the many hams who love CW. I had predicted in 1998 that by the year 2020 there would be few CW operators remaining to populate the CW bands. The poem is supposed to be written for the year 2020. Science fiction? Nah! Sorry to say...It looks like I may have been on target.

AN ODE TO THE CODE by w2ilp

Ay rip that creaky mode switch out,
No CW shall there be,
We only can use phone to shout,
On U or LSB.

But remember when your call was new,
Some things you'd not ignore,
CW beeped out clear and true,
It rang from ship to shore.

There are too few CW OPs,
On land or on the seas.
Not even many old grandpops,
For most are silent keys.

Save just a few kay-cees,
For hams who won't send fast,
To play with old and rusty keys;
An echo of the past!

w2ilp (Insightful Logical Poetry?):rock:

[WD8NUP]

Having been licensed since the mid 70’s I, too, had to “learn the code”.
Although I could barely copy at the required speed I did pass my advance class tests.
I can’t say I ever really used CW after that, but I can say that, as of that date, I have heard many operators that did not make me proud to be an amateur radio operator. #And they all passed the CW requirement. #Anyone who believes that the code requirement keeps the “scoundrels” off is kidding themselves.
The thing about time, whether for good or bad, is that it goes forward.
I couldn’t hunt a deer with a bow and arrow, build my own log cabin, shoe a horse, or a host of other things that my great-great-grandfather could do. #Does this make me less a man then him? #Should we all be forced to learn the ways of old as a way to “pay our dues”? #“I had to do it so everyone should have to do it to” just doesn’t cut it for me.
If you prefer to use CW that’s great, have fun, but I see no need to require it.

[W2CO]

Quote[/b] (VE7RFH @ Sep. 06 2005,05:47)]Quote[/b] (W2CO @ Sep. 06 2005,10:45)]Quote[/b] (n0klu @ Sep. 06 2005,04:29)]Quote[/b] (VE7RFH @ Sep. 06 2005,17:03)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 05 2005,15:14)][quote=n0klu,Sep. 05 2005,10:21]Problem is the pro-code folks feel that CW cannot stand by itself and therefore MUST be tested for.
That is a ridiculous statement. #The pro-CW guys are fighting to keep the mode they love so much. #They have a hobby/service they love and don't want it destroyed.
Pray tell us how removing Morse Code proficiency as a license requirement by itself will in any way bring about the death of the mode by itself? Those who find it appealing will learn it and use it, just like any other mode. Those who don't may just decide not to sit the license test at all because of it and the hobby will be the loser. #

snip...


What a bunch of No Code LIDS. The last guy said "cry me a river, I've cried a river for you". I doubt it, judging from your profile you have been licensed as an Extra Lite since 2003, and only operate 2m and 70cm. Wow that makes you the number 15047th no code lid. What happened to operating HF? And for N0KLU (where's your brother N0DOA?) I got three words for you - NO CODE LID.
For those who might doubt my credentials, I have been licensed and active for almost thirty-five years in several different countries. I was required to send and receive code for five minutes continuously at 13wpm with no uncorrected errors in order to earn my original HF endorsement and then was restricted to Morse Code operation exclusively for a year thereafter, had to show my logbook to the radio inspector before being permitted phone privileges.

That was then, this is now. #

I was an active proponent for the new licensing standards introduced in Canada a couple of months ago which remove the Morse Code proficiency requirement for HF privileges but introduces a higher written test passmark which is exactly where the emphasis ought to be placed. The sky has not fallen in Canada since these new no-code regulations were introduced.

I continue to advocate mastering the Morse Code and maintaining an on-air CW familiarity but legislating Morse Code proficiency for HF privileges is equivalent to demanding voice operators meet an elocution or language skill standard or SSTV operators meet a dress code or test card creativity requirements and data mode operators a minimum typing speed. #
Where is the real relevance?
To VE7RFH : Yes I was not against giving some HF access to no code licensees but they would have to stay clear of the CW bands >example:the upper 25Khz of the phone bands. And yes I agree totally that if the CW test is eliminated completely, that the written test must be upgraded to compensate for this lack of proficiency, the only problem is with all these bellyachers jumping up and down shouting "I don't want to or need to take a harder test now". I highly doubt they will make the written test harder than it is now (6 year olds can pass it), you see the main problem here is the lack of discipline in the school system here in the US. It has been rampant for at least 15 years now, and the types you see here fighting for no code test with no real argument on their side except for "I want it now and I shouldn't have to do that either" are exactly those that have filtered through the system. Granted there are a few sharp individuals out there who are no coders, but if they are so sharp how come they can't pass it? Even with those that filtered through college lately I see incompetence much greater than 15 years or so ago. They practically give you a diploma as long as you've paid up. Like they used to say when I was in school "it's only as good as you make it" and this means you must work hard for your pleasures - not have them handed to you on a silver platter and expect everyone else to just step aside. It's cheap and worthless and a waste of time and money and this is where ham radio is finally headed fast now, thanks to all the NO CODE LIDS for ruining it. Yeah Yeah you all can come back with your meaningless rantings about this and that, but the final word is you are NO CODE LIDS and ham radio will become a giant CB band now thanks to you.

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]This has got to represent a new low here. Tommy Wommy???

Tommy Wommy???

Tommy Wommy???

"I canna hold 'er together much longer Jim, she's beginning to buckle!"


[I]Damn it, Jim, I'm a doctor not a bricklayer!

Chuck, AA1MN

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]Yep that is what happens when the no code lids can't take it (the truth). They can sure dish it out, but can't take the real truth when it slaps them in the face. No Code = LID. And as for that riddler guy, you have watched too much batman on TV is all I can say. Man you sound wierd indeed. Anybody can type on a keyboard, but only real hams use CW.

Yep, guess that is the best you can come up with.

Bye the way, if you check a bit more closely you'll realize that at the time I got my Extra license a 20 WPM code requirement was still in effect.

So no one can say I'm No Code ... and if that makes me a lid we'll leave that for true amateurs to decide.

Chuck, AA1MN