Heard on 40M CW

[ae2ny]

I was just monitoring a CW QSO between two guys who were both working 6WPM. #So I did a break and they were delighted to invite me into their conversation and asked how much power I was running. #I told them 100W and they were both happy and I wondered why they'd be happy with ~MY~ power output.

Turns out neither of them ever run over 100W on CW and never over 500W on SSB. #Their mentality is, if they can't get it done with 500W or less, then they don't need to get it done. #They don't like the big 1.5kW operators.

And it made me think, how many times I had wished I could run that kind of power. #1500W ~WOW~!! #I'd LOVE to have that kind of power. #But the more I thought about it, the more I realized they were right. #If I can't get it done with 500W, it ain't worth gettin' done.

Doesn't matter much now anyway, I can only use 150W Max because of my autotuner and I'm only running 100W max power anyway.

Extra 50W isn't gonna do squat over 100W.


Anthony - W8ANT

[KC9IBN]

It's like catching big bass with an ultralight rod and reel with 2 pound test.

[ae2ny]

THAT'S IT! That's EXACTLY it!! I never would have thought of that analogy but it fits PERFECTLY!


Anthony - W8ANT

[af2cw]

50-100w here. I don't see the need for anything more.
I've even been offered an SB-220 and turned it down.
I prefer the challenge.

[AK7V]

There are a lot of "less-is-more" CW ops out there. Check out the various QRP groups. There are plenty of people with DXCC at 5 watts. There are people working good DX at half a watt using a crystal and a transistor or two. I've worked some good DX at 5 watts, which is what I run now. Back when I used to run 60 watts, I snagged Antarctica, Senegal, Portugal, New Zeland, and plenty more on 40m CW.

100 watts is a great power level, though, because you can work pretty much anywhere without too much difficulty (if propagation allows). QRP can be frustrating at times.

[AA0CX]

Okay you guys: here's the scoop! #

For real fun, get into a QSO with someone and try turning down the power on your rig -- first down to 50 watts -- then lower it even more. # I bet you probably can carry on a decent (readable) QSO with someone at 10 watts or less. #For kicks, ask for an HONEST signal report -- and let the op on the other end know what you're doing. #

You'll be absolutely amazed with what you can do with so little power on CW.

I run generally about 100 watts or less, and if I'm on my vintage gear [Johnson Viking Ranger] about 50 watts. #Fun stuff. #

-from one who's done the neighborhood-zorching kilowatt thing. Been there, done that...

It's the atmospherics, anyway, baby!!! #[Unless you're trying to bust a pileup, and then it's just as much technique as anything else!] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KB5WX]

For CW operations I rarely use over 50 watts and most of the time much less . Being a member of the flying pigs qrp group , what else could you expect ?

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]There are plenty of people with DXCC at 5 watts. There are people working good DX at half a watt using a crystal and a transistor or two. I've worked some good DX at 5 watts, which is what I run now.

I run 100W or less all of the time. I have no afterburner, but, I've always wondered why the DXCC goes to the guy SENDING with a 5W signal as opposed to the guy who has to do the RECEIVING of a 5W signal. Just seems backwards to me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC0W]

I have always believed that the RECEIVING station should be the one to receive the credit if they copied your QRP signal. They are the one who worked for it, all you did was turn your power down.

Nonetheless, a few years ago I placed a 50 watt light bulb on the roof of my house & feed it with coax. While running 25-30 watts. I worked 18 countries during a CW contest weekend with that light bulb without really trying.


Tom kcØw

[w8cbc]

100W here, give or take (I haven't figured out the efficiency on my finals yet). Still just one CW QSO, 40 metres, just after local noon, about 400 mi, with a 579. So the Apache's getting out just fine. Reception is more the problem with me. There's a great awful load of digital hash and power-line buzz all over the spectrum in this blasted apartment complex. As I said elsewhere, part 15 my arse.

I'll try fading down the power when I'm up north in October and see. I should be able to throttle this thing back to around 20W. Perhaps after that I could try running the exciter directly into the wire and see what that manages.

[AK7V]

Yeah, I agree that there should be an award for stations that stick through it and copy QRP signals. Without them, my log book would be empty. Thanks for listening!

[WA2ZDY]

Never had an amp here and never will. My 480 puts out 100w and that's probably at the high end of what I've run. Considering many of the years I've been a ham, the antennas I had were made of wire that would melt at much more than 100w . . .

BSR, that old pair of 6146s in that Apache are probably putting out 80-90w, a few less on 10m. Can't tell 80 from 100, so keep at it and enjoy! (73 from a fellow downspout and gutter guy!)

[K3STX]

HOw funny, I am seriously considering, like tomorrow, buying an amp. Granted not for ragchewing, but for contesting. I am sick of getting beaten-out in the pile-ups. But yes, for casual operating 100 watts should be just fine. I have my 220+ countries confirmed with 100 watts and wires, but it is getting hard to increase this for DXing and only 100 watts and wires makes it hard to run in contests.

paul

[W5HTW]

Once upon a time, when hams were controlled by input power and not output power, the legal limit was one kilowatt plate power input. To me, that sounded cool. I wanted to be able to say, "RIG HR 1KW." Just like W1AW. And a kilowatt AM rig? Wow! I would have given up half my future life for that, I think.

So I built an amplifier. Ran an easy KW input on CW. It would do about 1400 watts, actually, but I believed in the rules, and I put in the plate voltage and current meters so I could accurately measure power input. It was Class C but could be switched to Class AB1, so it could be run at about 1500 watts input on sideband, though I don't think I ever did that. That would, though, have been legal under the rules of that era, as we were limited to 2KW on SSB.

Anyway, I used the amp on CW a few times, more for that thrill of saying, "1KW HERE" than for any needed reason.

Finally, though, I grew tired of the amp. I dismantled it, and actually sold or gave away some of the parts.

Several years later I built another one, a pair of 4-400As, for sideband use. I tested it. It worked OK, perhaps needed some changes in the tank circuit, but it was usable. I never completed it. Sold it to some guy, with tubes, for $150.

But by then I was in professional communications on HF. And often we used transmitters capable of 2500W to 10KW output, not input. And often we ran them at half or less of their power on CW and AFSK. It was clear we didn't need 10 KW when 4 KW would do the job. Antennas, of course, were professional and fantastic.

Several years ago I got the amplifier bug again. But I knew if I bought one, it would probably sit idle. So I began looking for a used cheapie. I finally came across an old Hunter Bandit that had new 572Bs in it. Price was right, so I lugged it to the car. I've had it now about six years.

It has never been on CW. Except for a couple of tests about every year, just to see that it still works. It will deliver 1200 watts on 80 meters.

Even more interesting, maybe, is I don't use it on sideband, either, though it has seen some use there, restricted entirely to nets when I just wasn't making the grade without it. There weren't many such times. 100 watts and even a usable antenna will "get 'er done."

Maybe if I had one of those big crusher things with automatic tuning and didn't have to twist a bunch of knobs .... maybe.

Anyway, it is a rare thing indeed when more than 100 watts is needed on CW. (Or as far as what I need, on sideband, either.)

So Mr. Bandit sits there. Guess I better go turn it on and see if it still works. Been maybe six months since I did that.

Ed

[W0LC]

I have been playing with my old FT-7, remember those(?) on SSB/CW. At 5 Watts out on SSB, I have been working into Europe and Asia with a simple tri-bander. On CW, even easier as CW gets out much better then voice. Oh, sorry, I forgot. CW is outdated and inefficient. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w8cbc]

WA2ZDY - those 6146s were probably running 100+ before I got the idea and backed 'em off in the interests of tube life. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I now run about 150W input (200 mA and 760-790V plate). So 90W out looks about right.

I haven't a clue what my ERP out of the end-fed zigzag is like. I'm willing to bet some QRP ops with well-designed aerials punch out more signal than do I.

[w8znx]

ahoy Anthony

most cw ops
never run more 100 watts

( cw contesters and dx hunters
#often run legal limit, some times more )

40 meters is a great low pwr band

most of the time
I run between 500mw and 20 watts
enjoy using hb transmitters and old receivers

one of my Acorn tube qrp transmitters
was in CQ magzine few months ago

to me anything
more than 50 watts cw
is high power

North American qrp ops on
40 meters mostly hang out
on and around 7040 khz

only flaw 7040 khz is also European
RTTY calling freq,
and some times fist ops
looking for numbers
take over the freq

hello 8BSR my Apache 18 year old finals
puts out easy 130 watts on 80 es 40



keep at it
you are doing great!

yours truly
Mac

[WA3KYY]

I once accidentally worked one-half of a CW DX contest at 5W. I only noticed I had the power turned down when I wasn't able to get through to some Big Guns I normally have no trouble working. In retrospect, I should have kept the power at 5W, I had a pretty respectable total built up before I went back to 100W.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[wa4brl]

Here’s the real deal, Anthony. #Standard S-Meter calibration is 6dB per S-Unit. #So if a 1500W station is delivering an S9 signal, here's how would the signal would sound at lower power levels:

1500W #= S9
375W # #= S8
94W # # #= S7
24W # # #= S6
6W # # # #= S5
1.5W # # = S4
375mW = S3
94mW # = S2

Note that a 1500W sig is less than two S-units stronger than a 100W sig, and only four S-units stronger than a 5W sig. #Now, if that same 1500W sig was 20dB over S9, then the guy could drop to 1 Watt and STILL deliver an S7 signal.

The big lesson? #Don’t waste your bucks on amplifiers! #Invest your dollars wisely in better antenna systems. #THAT investment will deliver the dB’s on receive as well.

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (wa4brl @ Aug. 31 2005,09:17)]Don’t waste your bucks on amplifiers! #Invest your dollars wisely in better antenna systems. #THAT investment will deliver the dB’s on receive as well.
well kinda

but if like K3STX
only have good wire antenna system
not 6 el at 100 ft
and your country count is above 200
each country gets harder and harder
no common run of the mill dx any more
but starting to run with the big guns

or you want to rag chew
75 or 160 fone summer time

often you need more than just
a good antenna system

firs leg up is going from 100 watts
to 400 or 500 watts

helps gets you through
10 over static crashes
and heard in the cluster blanks
of pile up

amp dsn't need to be boom boom
2.5 kw out amp

lots of nice little amps
on the used market
for not much money

that if taken care of will
last 40 or more years

own 3 amps all over 35 years old

oldest is a Hammond Hl-500
sold as a kit in Canada
four 811A,s right out of the old
ARRL SSB handbook
easy 500 watts out
i payed $75 for it not running
took one weekend
25 bucks in parts to fix
built like a brick out house
bigger in size and weight
than a Alpha
will still be running
when im SK

most used amp here
Hallcrafters Loudenboomer made in 1965
$ 250 most ive ever payed for a amp
uses single 3-400Z
day in day 600 watts output

a good used amp is a very usefull tool
but
it is a poor substute for a good antenna

Mac
home of the happy Kim Chee pot

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ Aug. 30 2005,16:42)]I'll try fading down the power when I'm up north in October and see. #I should be able to throttle this thing back to around 20W. #Perhaps after that I could try running the exciter directly into the wire and see what that manages.
hello forgot to add

man oh man
you will love this

want to run low pwr cw
Heathkit Apache
just tune it up like normal
then when all tuned up
put tune / transmit switch in tune

you can now vary the out put
from less than one watt to
oh about eight watts ( its been few months since
ive run my Green Machine )

by turning up and turning down the drive pot

you are now running
one heck of a large qrp rig

should give out awards
most weight per watt

have made lots of contacts this way
keying is still great
Apache one of the nicest sounding
old tube transmitters on cw

yours truly
Mac
just love the green machine
have 3 of them
one on the air one spair and one for parts

[wa4brl]

I hadn't heard about that trick with the Apache -- but then, I haven't owned one yet. Maybe SPAR will consider a "Weight per Watt" award. Sounds like a great area for heated (filaments?) competition! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

One of my "way out there" dreams is to set up an Apache/Mohawk pair running mobile in an early 60's Ford with a HUGE bug-catcher of an antenna. Maybe even paint the car two-tone green. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Regardless of THAT particular fantasy, I want to get that pair for the hollow-state side of the shack, and maybe add a Warrior to boot.

[w5alt]

Never have used over 100 watts. Sure there are a few pileups it takes me awhile to get through, but so what?

As a novice I used a Knight T60 that put out maybe 20-30 watts output into a poor antenna and worked the world. That certainly taught me that the antenna is by far the better way to improve the station!

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[w8znx]

Hello 4brl

don't use Apache mobile
use the heathkit green mobile twins

am now at home in shack

40/80 meters Drake W-4 watt meter
key down cw easy 145 watts
out of my Apache

low pwr TUNE / OPERATE switch
in TUNE pos
getting from less than one watt
to abt 17 watts out # #

( Drake W-4 no good for qrp work but checked it once
using Yaseu dummy load watt meter that has good
low pwr scale )
# # # #
by cranking on DRIVE pot


have a HA-10 Warrior
would never hook it to an Apache
would be a waste of power
mostly generate lots of heat

would lash it up with Hallicrafters HT-32 or HT-37

Mohawk receivers are selling
for far too much money
stock the receiver needs work

first build up a amplified AVC
or you will spend all your time hanging
on to the IF and RF gain pots

yours truly
Mac

[w8cbc]

I hadn't thought about dropping the drive. And it's right in front of me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif So I'll keep it in mind for October.

Green Machine. I like that.

As properly tuned, what's the plate efficiency in one of these? I've been assuming something around 60% but I could easily be wrong. I realise now that it must be doing better than 90W out for 150W in else I'd be burning up the finals - and I am operating below what's recommended in the manual (they say to run about 250 mA plate, which would make it about 190W input). So if plate dissipation is held within spec (25W each, 50W total) that should net 140W or better at full power?

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (kc0w @ Aug. 30 2005,18:40)]I have always believed that the RECEIVING station should be the one to receive the credit if they copied your QRP signal. They are the one who worked for it, all you did was turn your power down.

Nonetheless, a few years ago I placed a 50 watt light bulb on the roof of my house & feed it with coax. While running 25-30 watts. I worked 18 countries during a CW contest weekend with that light bulb without really trying.


# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #Tom kcØw
The light bulb can be the stealth antenna of last resort #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

When i was a novice using a DX-40 transmitter, a 60 watt bulb was my 'dummy load'. With the bulb siting in the bedroom shack, I found that I could indeed make contacts. I think there was an article in QST a few years ago with the title of Anything Works, and he was using light bulbs as radiators.

73
George
K3UD

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (wa4brl @ Aug. 31 2005,09:17)]Here’s the real deal, Anthony. #Standard S-Meter calibration is 6dB per S-Unit. #So if a 1500W station is delivering an S9 signal, here's how would the signal would sound at lower power levels:

1500W #= S9
375W # #= S8
94W # # #= S7
24W # # #= S6
6W # # # #= S5
1.5W # # = S4
375mW = S3
94mW # = S2

Note that a 1500W sig is less than two S-units stronger than a 100W sig, and only four S-units stronger than a 5W sig. #Now, if that same 1500W sig was 20dB over S9, then the guy could drop to 1 Watt and STILL deliver an S7 signal.

The big lesson? #Don’t waste your bucks on amplifiers! #Invest your dollars wisely in better antenna systems. #THAT investment will deliver the dB’s on receive as well.
You can't argue with facts.

A kilowatt won't make up for a poor antenna. Like the man said, spend the money on a good antenna system first.