Rag-Chewing Under Attack

[wa2upq]

Rag-Chewing Under Attack

When I got my Novice ticket back in 1961, rag-chewing was one of the most important, typical and honorable activities an Amateur could engage in. It was considered the mark of a true Ham. As I learned the ropes by just listening to the old-timers, I was fascinated and inspired by the open, honest and personalized way they would discuss Amateur issues. This and general, #laid-back, personal conversation to cement bonds among amateurs was regarded as a normal and essential part of our hobby. In fact, it was a key element of ham radio PR and recruitment activities. But if my recent experiences on the bands are anything to go by, rag-chewing today is under attack, and is even the object of disdain on the part of some.

In the past 14 days, I was involved in several rag-chew sessions on 15 and 20 meters, during which we discussed major Amateur-related issues like the U.S. incentive licensing program, problems in international license reciprocity, “hello-goodbye-5-9-QSL 100% by-the-bureau contacts”, the threat to shortwave radio by digital and satellite services, and what we felt was the excessive number of contests on the air. In all these instances, snide remarks were directed to me by anonymous “snipers”, to the effect that I was “on a soapbox”, or “broadcasting”. Others with less imagination and courage simply resorted to whistling and blowing into their microphones incessantly, throwing on carriers, or transmitting digital or “bubble jamming” noises.

In another recent example, an anonymous station came on top of our rag-chew on 14.198, demanding that we leave the frequency because it was reserved for “serious” activities [i.e. DX- hunting].

The “quality audio” group on 14.178 is another example of vicious targeting, in which those who don’t see the point, or those who are simply jealous of the group’s technical accomplishments, transmit vicious insults and deliberate jamming to express their disdain. What a waste of RF, and what a disgrace to the Amateur tradition!

It’s often said that the television generation has been “dumbed down”, and has difficulty expressing itself, and that today’s notion of political correctness has left may of us so up-tight about what we say that we prefer to say nothing at all. Regardless of what one thinks of their politics or attitudes, this is the reason that people like Rush Limbaugh, Bob Grant and Howard Stern are so popular: they have a clear point of view… and EXPRESS IT!

In Amateur Radio, national and world politics have, of course, #no place. But when an opinionated Ham turns up on the air these days to discuss Amateur “political” issues, it’s an irritation - a red flag - #to many. And if you can articulate your views especially well and have a “professional sound” on top of it, then you’re really in for trouble and a prime target for heckling. The Japanese have a saying for it: The nail that sticks out the farthest is the first one to get hit.

I, for one, am tired of being told what is “acceptable” on Ham Radio. I am aware of only one official reference to permissible “content” in the Amateur Service. It’s part of the ITU regulations that state [paraphrased]: “The nature of Amateur communications shall be such that they would not necessitate the use of the public telecommunications network”.

I am personally not a fan of contests, “frantic DXing”, “hello-goodbye” contacts, or nets where CB-like, quick back-and-forth quipping goes on. But I respect the rights of others to do those activities, if that’s what Ham Radio means to them. However, in return and in the Ham Spirit, I expect the same right to rag-chew and express a point of view about these and other issues, as long as my remarks are not deliberately offensive to any individual.

No one represents “true” Hamming – there’s room for all of us. Each of us deserves respect for what we do and where we stand in the hobby. That’s tolerance. But alas, tolerance appears to be on the wane in this world, and Ham Radio is not immune. In my opinion, if the trend continues, the future of our hobby doesn’t look good.

73,
Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ
[B][B]

[NN6EE]

Dear Bob,

If we did everything that the ARRL told us NOT TO DO this would be the most boring hobby on EARTH!!!

They tell us don't talk about: POLITICS, RELIGION, SEX (within reason of course!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif WORLD AFFAIRS or anything thing else that would tend to raise another person's hackles so to speak!!!

Well I talk about that and much more with those willing to reply in kind!!!

Whether anybody else out there really cares makes no difference to me and many others, in that ALL LIFE IS CONTROVERSIAL, and since we are licensed COMMUNICATORS WE CAN DO THAT ANYTIME we damn well please in spite of what anyone tells us, including RILEY AND THE FCC!!!

As long as we're relatively CIVIL when in a controversial chat that's all THAT REALLY MATTERS IN MY OWN HUMBLE OPINION!!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif es 73,

JIM/nn6ee

[KG6JRM]

I am new to ham radio, but the principle reason for obtaining my General ticket was my love for those "Rag-Chews". #My grandfather was a ham and I used to listen to him talk for hours on his old collins rig. #So, I guess Ragchewing is my birthright. #I am not into those "Wham-Bam-Thank you ham QSO's either. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #So as a 31 year old, New Ham operator, I would like to say, Ragchewing has been passed on to some of us youngsters.

73
Jeff/KG6JRM

[wg7x]

Bob,

I sure wish that I could have been listening tothe QSO's that got all the rude responses...

I like most amateur radio activities and rag-chewing is one of the major activities here also. I have had some guys making remarks in the background, but those are in the minority. I wonder what subject matter got the jerks all riled up?

Note that most of these cowards prefer not to identifty themselves, prefering instead to hide behind the microphone.

The thing is, I get fellows breaking into my QSO's all the time, mostly from guys wanting to tell me that I've got a nice signal into their location, or looking for a quick signal check themselves. Not a problem, if possible I invite them into the conversation, and make it around table.

So any time that the band is open to W7, give me a call!
I'll rag chew with you for hours, given a chance. In fact, one of my most recent memorable QSO's was with a Polish station, Wim SP5DDJ. We talked for about two hours last fall on 15 meters. What made it all the more memorable was the fact that all during that talk, no body broke in for a 5-9 QSL via buro contact!

Just one more thought, and I'll get off the "soapbox". Has anyone out there considered the fact that DX hams get a license for the same reasons that we do? In other words, I'm sure that they get tired of all the paperchasers out there bugging them for a contact in order to get the QSL and fill in another DXCC point! I'll bet, based on my limited experience, that DX hams, given the choice, would just as soon ragchew with you too, rather than give the 'ol 5-9 QSL via the buro, QRZ?

So.. keep the faith, the ragchewers are out there, and I know because I'm one of them!

73, Gary, WG7X

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ April 12 2002,05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am personally not a fan of contests, ?frantic DXing?, ?hello-goodbye? contacts, or nets where CB-like, quick back-and-forth quipping goes on. But I respect the rights of others to do those activities, if that?s what Ham Radio means to them. However, in return and in the Ham Spirit, I expect the same right to rag-chew and express a point of view about these and other issues, as long as my remarks are not deliberately offensive to any individual.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi Bob,
I am not a big DX hound or anything, but I do like short QSO's because I don't have much in common with most folks on the HF band. 10 and 20 Meters are my favorite bands. I found it funny that you said "CB-like, quick back and forth quipping" because I found the long winded transmissions on 75 and 40 to be exactly like the kind of stuff I have heard by local CBers.

I don't mind people rag chewing, but it's not very fun for me. I simply dial around the rag chewers looking for good DX stations for a quick QSO.

Could it be that it's not a backlash against "rag chewers", but one against what the "rag chewers" are saying? In either case, I find it disappointing that some hams don't have the self control not to follow the rules. "Rag chewers" have as much right to be on the air and any other licensed ham.

-- Terry

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Amen Bob.......ur 5/9.....QRZ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73 de Craig......KCØGOA

P.S......I couldn't agree more!cc http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Bob,

Thank you very much for your cogent and intelligent post. I agree with everything you have said.

I spent many years as an old Tech (Tech Plus now) and just got back on the air as an Extra. I have been monitoring 2 meters and I have decided that I would not go near most of what I hear. This is no longer ham radio, but simple cellular calls without the bill. I am saddened when I think that the HF bands might go the way that 2 meters has gone. I, for one, will do as much rag chewing as I can to help keep that from happening.

As to "political correctness" and being careful of what I say, to hell with that. I am sick of what has happended to this culture. If we don't do something to arrest the slide, it is all over. I have a three year old grandson, and I am fearful of the world which he will inherit from my generation.

Let's put "polical correctness" on the garbage heap of history. If someone doesn't like what we have to say, they have every right to tell us that. But WE have every right to say whatever we want, as long as it is not a threat to anyone.

Spot on, Bob. Thank you.

[K7PIG]

That's all I've ever done,"Rag-Chewing."
DX Nets, your number is, NCS says, repeat your report for confirmation-What happened to two-way communications? When was a third party involved?
I'll chat with U on 10m, 28535 AM/USB/LSB, keep the Illegals pi_ _ed off, their right's are ZERO. CU on 10m.
Have fun with radio.

[kv6v]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ April 13 2002,03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In another recent example, an anonymous station came on top of our rag-chew on 14.198, demanding that we leave the frequency because it was reserved for “serious” activities [i.e. DX- hunting].[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm not sure who you were chewing rags with there on 14.198, but as I understand it that is the "DX window" for 20 meters.

While I don't agree with someone jamming you, I do understand why you were "attracting attention" to yourselves.

I try to respect the bandplans/gentlemen's agreements as much as possible, but I and others have all made mistakes.
73

Sean
kv6v

[G3RZP]

I think a lot depends where you go to ragchew. 14195 is an albeit unofficial, but very widely recognised DX frequency. So sure you can go to 198, but you are then very likely to be causing trouble for a lot of others if your signal is at all strong in comparison with a DX station - who can be very weak.

So remember the Amateur's code - 'the Amateur is Gentlemanly .... he never knowingly uses the air for his own amusement in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.'

Ragchewing is fine, as is contesting and DXing, but it's better to do it away from the DX sections of the band. I normally try to ragchew on SSB around 14150 to 160 or above 14250 - that also gives the General class licencees a chace, too. On CW, above 14035.

[AI6Q]

Hey I talk about politics on the air all the time. I love ragchewing on repeaters with my friends about why Democrats and liberals suck so much just hoping somebody will chime something in. Even on HF when I talk to somebody and things turn to politics nobody ever breaks in to make rude comments. I just figured I must be right. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

BTW, don't listen to the ARRL. They're just a bunch of idiots trying to run the hobby. The FCC is in charge; not them.

Steve AI6Q

[CLESKIE]

Like most people, I must work Monday through Friday. Therefore, most of my operating time is on the weekends. It seems like every weekend there is some kind of contest going on. Often these contest clutter up the bands so bad, they render the band useless for anything else. If you are not a contester, you either need to head to the WARC bands and they may or may not have the best propagation. If not, your out of luck.
I have often had to just stop operating on contest weekends. Especially during RTTY contests, because my mode of choice is CW and during a RTTY contest, they are all over the band.

The vast majority of these contests are ARRL sponsored so, If you really want to protest how the bands are being used, don't support the ARRL.

Chuck

[W7LGK]

Hello Bob,

I enjoyed your post very much. #You seem to have some of the likes and dislikes as I do. #I will add a couple of mine and see what you think.

I've been a ham for 18 years and spent 14 of them on 2 meters. #I then became a general and hit the HF airwaves with great enthusiasum. #In the last 4 years I have seen ham radio degrade to the point that is almost like CB radio. #Everyone is telling everyone else to get off "their" frequency and don't come back. #Others are using foul language that would make a sailor blush and act as if they have the right to do so. #Everyone of us who was in CB can remember the carriers, cussings, and the arguing over what someone was suppose to have said about someones wife. #This was mostly why most of us got out of it and went to ham radio.

When I first went on HF, I hardly heard anyone, but, when I did, they were extremely polite and interesting to talk to. #In just these 4 short years, and due to the code adjustment, it seems that all hell has broken loose. #Now we have those same people now on ham radio and they still have their CB attitude. #I can say anything, do anything, and there's not a thing you can do about it. #Now if you listen to 10 meters, it sounds just like CB.

I am like you in the fact that I (personally) detest contests and nets. #Does this mean that I think they should be band? #By no means, no way. #They should however set some sort of limit on contesting as they take up all the bands except the 2 that dx is not prevelant. #Their attitude is if you don't like it go to those two bands. #Where have we heard that before? #As for the nets.... if a net is doing good, such as emergencies, desasters, and things of this nature than I'm all for them. #I took down my 80 and 160 antennas as their is nothing but nets. #One particular net is "suppose" to help with contacts. #I don't need someone telling me "now you can make 2 calls". #Then the problem is that the 2 stations are having such a difficult time in hearing their respective reports and when they finally do get it, one station asks the net controller what the guys callsign was and the controller tells him and calls it a "good" contact. #That is bs with capital letters.

The area that both of these entities make me so mad is that they will tell you to get off of "their" frequency. #I got news for them jerks.....No one, but, no one has the right to tell someone else to get off of a frequency unless it is a life or death emergency. #They think they're God's gift to the ham world and don't mind telling you. #What they need to do is reread the rules of Part 97 again.

Well Bob, that's it for me. #Hope to hear you on the HF bands and I will promise not to say " Your 59 QRZed". #Take care my friend.

73's.........Lonny - W7LGK #
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KF4BOT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am personally not a fan of contests, “frantic DXing”, “hello-goodbye” contacts, or nets where CB-like, quick back-and-forth quipping goes on. But I respect the rights of others to do those activities, if that’s what Ham Radio means to them. However, in return and in the Ham Spirit, I expect the same right to rag-chew and express a point of view about these and other issues, as long as my remarks are not deliberately offensive to any individual.

No one represents “true” Hamming – there’s room for all of us. Each of us deserves respect for what we do and where we stand in the hobby. That’s tolerance. But alas, tolerance appears to be on the wane in this world, and Ham Radio is not immune. In my opinion, if the trend continues, the future of our hobby doesn’t look good.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Bob, I agree with most of what you're saying. I'm not into contests, "frantic DXing", or those quick 59 QSO's either. I, like you am a rag chewer. However, my definition of rag chewing differs somewhat from yours. In my opinion, it’s not the length of the transmission that makes a QSO a ragchew. It’s the length of the QSO itself. There's no hard and fast rule that says that a ragchewer must keep the mike keyed for 10 minutes and ID when unkeying. There's nothing wrong with quick back-and-forth dialog during a ragchew. The length of time that the mike is keyed depends on what you want to say and how long (or short) it takes to say it. Some transmissions may be longwinded, while others may be brief - all within the same QSO. The longest QSO that I had was 4 hours. I was chatting with a friend who I hadn't spoken to for a long time. We didn't end our QSO. Propagation (or the lack of) did. If that doesn't qualify to be a ragchew, I don't know what does. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

You are right that no-one represents “true” Hamming. There is room for all of us. The big problem is that too many hams feel that their "pet" radio activity deserves to be the dominant radio activity. No group, be it contesters, ragchewers, nets or DXers have the right to dominate the bands. None is more important than the other. It’s all ham radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KD5KZZ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When I first went on HF, I hardly heard anyone, but, when I did, they were extremely polite and interesting to talk to. #In just these 4 short years, and due to the code adjustment, it seems that all hell has broken loose. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Even though I am just a "no code Tech" (I rarely monitor HF, spend most of my time on VHF/UHF), I have to say that most of the hams that I have heard using either "foul" language or other questionable practices are either "old" hams (ie. before the change in the code test) or "new" hams that were elmered by those same "old" hams. #

Now I am not saying that lowering the bar on the code is not part of the problem, I am just saying that it isn't the entire problem. #

73---Donnie KD5KZZ

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W7LGK @ April 17 2002,08:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now if you listen to 10 meters, it sounds just like CB.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have never heard an unkind word on 10 meters. I hear this from some people on this message board and wonder if they are on the same 10 meters I am. For the most part,I think the band is totaly underutilized. It maybe that the evil doers are in a part of the country that I can't hear. (East coast)

-- Terry

[KD5KUF]

It is simply human nature to be sure of your own opinion and tastes as gospel. So if someone else doesn't "like what I like or do what I do there is something wrong with them".
# # This is what has divided the members of the other national organization,that is concerned with our second amendment rights. Quail hunters don't care a whit about shooting flyspeck size bullseyes at 500 meters, target shooters don't understand why anyone wants to shoot little birds and rabbits and deer. And big game hunters don't care about anything but bagging a trophy. But we have to stand behind each others rights to pursue our legitimate facets of our constitutional rights.
# # The first amendment which we are concerned about here gives us the right to free speech. And just like the fact that this does not give us the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, we don't have the right to use the airwaves just any ole way we choose. The FCC rules allow us the use of the bands to communicate with the only restrictions being, identify your self in accordance with the rules, conduct no communications that result in profit to either communicator (with the exception of selling a personal amateur radio), and not to speak outside the bounds of common courtesy and decency.
# # Within these very mild restrictions is a multitude of modes and subjects to enjoy, and each individual has the right to do it his or her way with our full support. But it seems that no matter how often I reread the constitution it does not give anyone the right to be a jerk as many seem to believe.
# # Whether you are a cber (I was one too.) that brought the bad operating practices with you, or an intolerant old timer that raises hell with the newcomers, your behavior is not "right" and is not "god given" and is for damn sure not entitled to protection by the constitution of our country. We can only make things better by making "common courtesy" more common than it has been.
# # I'm through preaching now. 73, de KD5KUF Joe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ke4pjw]

Very well said Joe.

[ag4hy]

Joe; http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
BULLY! Ra Ra Ra Rah! Couldn't have said it better myself; even if i had really really tried..
thanks:D
willie ag4hy

I agree with Joe.

I am a brand new ham (20 yrs old) who got interested in the hobby when I learned that morse code is still in use today. I had wanted to learn the code just for fun, but had no idea it could be practiced with so many enthusiasts.

(I appologize in advance if the following isn't so applicable to International Hams)

One thing that I find special about ham radio is it's protected status under the FCC. I understand it's a constant struggle to keep bandwidth, but it has a special freedom of its own.

In no other means of communication are ones thoughts and ideas available to so many (yes, I know there is no broadcasting). And if it weren't for call signs, nearly anonymous. This is a special medium that has the characterisics of true freedom of speech. We should see the amateur band as a unique priviledge given us. And we should come together in support of the hobby. I very much like the analogy to gun rights two posts back.

God bless,

Drew (waiting for his callsign)

[KT4EB]

TO DREW:

Thank God there are still new hams with your kind of attitude. I am going to step up to elmer status for a minute and ask one thing of you. That post that you wrote, print it. Frame it. Put it right next to your equiptment. Remember it. Practice it. Preach it. Please don't ever loose that feeling of pride in this wonderful hobby. And maybe one day you can elmer those feelings of pride to someone new.

73s DE KT4EB In Beautiful Dawson, Alabama.
kt4eb@farmerstel.com or www.qsl.net/kt4eb

[kb3hfp]

I agree. Lately, QSOs have been like this:

CQ CQ CQ this is WA1XYZ WA1XYZ WA1XYZ calling CQ and standing by 14.555 MHz.

WA1XYZ WA1XYZ this is DX1DX DX1DX

DX1DX DX1DX DE WA1XYZ. You are five-nine, please QSL via the bureau.

You are also five-nine, please QSL.

73! WA1XYZ clear

DX1DX clear.

I don't think these are QSOs - ham radio is supposed to be fun, not giving a quick 59 and QSLing.

(One reason I like 2 meters)

Ragchewing forever! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w6th]

Good grief my ham friends, I agree with each and every one of you. #Nicely expressed I must say. Now I realize why I went off of the phone bands and on the low end of the cw for the past 64 years. Hopefully Heathkit may come back with a rig just covering the cw portion of the bands and giving our radio's 10 miles of bandspread. May God bless America.

[K1ZC]

Vito,

If Heathkit came back with anything I would buy it! Nothing like soldering a few pieces of wire together, plugging it in, and watching it light up for the first time. I think there is an Elecraft K1 in my future.

73,
Jim

I'm only a Tech licensee, but having recently bought an FT-817 (my incentive to upgrade) I've spent some time listening on the HF bands. I haven't heard much that would lead me to believe that HF is racing hell bent for election to the CB ranks. Almost everyone seems to be very professional and courteous and trying to be good neighbors on the bands.

Nonetheless, I have to say that there are a few that seem to make a point of taking issue with everything that goes on on the air. I'm talking about some of the ragchewers who seem to want to spend all their time griping about the FCC, ARRL, or anyone who didn't have to build their first radio out of spare parts from a Model T and rusty barbed wire. Worst of all are the ones complaining about the "degradation of the hobby" by those of us who will only have to pass a five word code test.

Oh, I can hear it now from some of you. (You know who you are!!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif That young welp! Why in my day, we had to build a radio out of milk cartons and dental floss, then pass a 100 word per minute code test...after milking 30 cows and walking uphill through the snow in bare feet, for 10 miles!

Geez guys, when was the last time you had to prove you could saddle a horse before getting a driver's license?? Now, I have nothing against horses, why some of my best friends are horses, and I hope that horses will be around for a long time. I just don't see the relevance in making me learn to ride one when the only time I will likely every do so is when I take the test. (The sound you hear is me diving into my bunker after lobbing that last salvo!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I hope you see my post as being somewhat tongue-in-cheek! All in good fun.

73

Doug

[NN6EE]

Drew,

As far as the hobby is concerned your ATTITUDE towards it is admirable!!! Though after a few more years #under your belt you might think differently about it, of course only time will tell!!!

But with respect to your feelings about CW they're really encouraging!!! A lot of guys in your age group DON'T REALLY APPRECIATE CW because it takes TOO MUCH of THEIR VALUABLE TIME TO WASTE IT LEARNING that great mode!!!

As much as some YOKELS DETEST CW it's the preferred mode of many THOUSANDS of progressive hams ALL OVER THE WORLD, whether the NO-CODERS like it or not, always will be!!!

At least you and others had taken the TIME to learn it, like alot of we older guys did, and if anybody thinks that CW is going to FADE AWAY because of DISUSE are CRAZY!!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

--... #...-- es Best Regards!!!

JIM/nn6ee

[W2SUQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mifke @ April 18 2002,00:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have been monitoring 2 meters and I have decided that I would not go near most of what I hear. #This is no longer ham radio, but simple cellular calls without the bill. #I am saddened when I think that the HF bands might go the way that 2 meters has gone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


On my local 2m/440 repeaters we talk about everything from the building and modification of repeater controllers to what we watched on TV last night.

Just because every conversation isn't of a technical nature doesn't mean it's just free cellular service.

I also noticed you said monitoring and not talking. Hey, guess what? That little knob on the left changes the frequency. If you don't like what your hearing. Change the channel or turn it off.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that nobody owns the air. If people want to talk about what their having for dinner that's their right. If you want to talk about the latest solid state linear amps, go right ahead.

-B

[W2SUQ]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ April 13 2002,04http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In the past 14 days, I was involved in several rag-chew sessions on 15 and 20 meters, during which we discussed major Amateur-related issues like the U.S. incentive licensing program, problems in international license reciprocity, “hello-goodbye-5-9-QSL 100% by-the-bureau contacts”, the threat to shortwave radio by digital and satellite services, and what we felt was the excessive number of contests on the air.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


There's 52 weekends in a year and 365 days in a year. How many of these contests really have an impact on your ability to make QSOs? Maybe a few at most. Most of the contests on the air are small. True, the ARRL and CQWW contests pretty much consume the band but it's only for a few days.

I'm a contester and get really tired of people bashing it. All the bull about confining us to a portion of the band and limiting the number of contests is rediculous. In many countries this is considered a sport. Limiting us to a portion of the band isn't going to work for world wide contests; there is just to many of us.

Everyone is so selfish I just can't stand it anymore. Quit trying to force your opinion down people's throats.

-B

[ac0x]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ April 13 2002,04http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rag-Chewing Under Attack

When I got my Novice ticket back in 1961, rag-chewing was one of the most important, typical and honorable activities an Amateur could engage in.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You have got to be kidding. Rag chewing an "honorable" activity?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I always thought things like public service, traffic handling, and experimentation were the "honorable" things we were involved in. "Chewing the rag" with a fellow ham may be fun, but I wouldn't elevate it so far as to be "honorable". In fact, a lot of the rag chewing I typically hear on the bands is far from honorable. Amateurs running high power to make contacts that could EASILY be done with far less. Amateurs COMPLAINING about (and lumping together) new hams. Amateurs running excessively wide signals (under the guise of "improving audio quality"). Amateurs INTENTIONALLY having these high-power/wide signal QSO's close to frequencies they KNOW WELL are going to be used for scheduled or anticipated operations (yeah, I know, you were there first, you have a right to be there. But when you KNOW what you're going to do is discourteous, and could easily be moved elsewhere, WHY DO IT?).

Ragchewing is fine. Ragchewing is fun. Just don't start thinking your RCC should be hung on the wall at the same level as your A1-Op cert or BPL.

[nx6d]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AI6Q @ April 18 2002,05:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey I talk about politics on the air all the time. I love ragchewing on repeaters with my friends about why Democrats and liberals suck so much just hoping somebody will chime something in. Even on HF when I talk to somebody and things turn to politics nobody ever breaks in to make rude comments. I just figured I must be right. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I, too, ragchew on 40 and 80 and think everyone has the right to talk about whatever as long as it is with the rules.

I support the AI6Q's right to make a complete fool out of himself on the air and for anyone to question our government, our so-called President and his band of oil-soaked cronies. That's what ham radio is all about.

Who's your congressman, Steve? Oh, that's right. A Democrat...

73,
Dave

[kv6v]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa2upq @ April 13 2002,04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
There's 52 weekends in a year and 365 days in a year. How many of these contests really have an impact on your ability to make QSOs? Maybe a few at most. Most of the contests on the air are small. True, the ARRL and CQWW contests pretty much consume the band but it's only for a few days.

I'm a contester and get really tired of people bashing it. All the bull about confining us to a portion of the band and limiting the number of contests is rediculous. In many countries this is considered a sport. Limiting us to a portion of the band isn't going to work for world wide contests; there is just to many of us.

Everyone is so selfish I just can't stand it anymore. Quit trying to force your opinion down people's throats.

-B[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

It just seems weird to me that in one breath you are completely against limiting the number of contests and/or #confining contest operation to a "portion" of the band.

Then in your next breath you appear to imply that anyone who doesn't agree with your contester mentality, is "being selfish". # Which of the following statements is more selfish? #

1. Saying "Its OK to completely tear up the bands for a few weekends a year, because in many countries around the world ham radio is a sport"

or

2. "Hey guys, can't I get a little room here away from the contest to ragchew or do whatever it is I normally do when there is no contest happening".

The impression I get from your post is, "That since it doesn't happen all that often", the negative impact the contest causes to 'non contest' operations, is far outweighed by your own selfish needs to 'compete over the air'.

I am probably incorrect here, but that is the impression I am left with after reading your post.

73

Sean
kv6v

[ke5wj]

First, I work some contests. I rarely send the logs in, but I usually set myself a goal and see if I can make it. I also work DX and enjoy that aspect of ham radio. I also play with digital modes, etc. As far as I'm concerned, it all has its place in ham radio. But, ragchewing is the fundamental, single most enjoyable part. During contests that I don't care to participate in, I move to the WARC bands, or PSK31, or SSB, or CW - depending on the type of contest underway.

Now, I see lots of people complaining about the lack of ragchewing, but on the air my experience is different. I hear people ragchewing all the time. I've never had trouble finding a ragchew QSO when I get tired of the other activities.

When I first setup a station here in YV1, I had all kinds of DX and US stations pileups calling me. It was sort of exciting, but after a while it wore off. After that when someone called me, I'd try to strike up a conversation. Some bit and some didn't. It rarely took more than a couple contacts before someone wanted to just chat with a DX station.

One of the other local hams here tells me (and I've heard him on the air) that he usually ragchews, then works a couple fast DX-chasers, the quietly moves to a different frequency and does it again.

I believe if someone can't ragchew, then they ought to be a little more patient or ask why. If someone else complains about it, ignore them. Ragchewing is part of ham radio, but non-ragchewing is also.

Take care and I'll ragchew if you want, but won't complain if you don't want to.

[W2SUQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kv6v @ April 17 2002,18:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">kv6v wrote:
The impression I get from your post is, "That since it doesn't happen all that often", the negative impact the contest causes to 'non contest' operations, is far outweighed by your own selfish needs to 'compete over the air'.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, I think you have it wrong. The point is, things don't always go your way. There are many aspects of the hobby and ragchewing is no more important than contesting is. Why? Because some people like ragchewing and some people like contesting. Some people like to chase DX and others enjoy passing traffic. It's a diverse hobby and we all need to just get over the fact that the bands are dedicated to whatever we like best. Everyone else shouldn't just go away because we don't agree with what they are doing. I enjoy contesting and so do a lot of other folks. And yes, when you get that many people on at one time, there is going to be the occational rude jerk that ruins it for everyone. But, if I'm enjoying a casual CW contact and a traffic net comes along, I move aside. We all have to share. There's certainly other things to do besides complain. What if you planned antenna or project work around contest weekends? All I'm saying is that there are two sides to every coin. It's always 50:50.

-Brian
73 de W2SUQ

[KF4BOT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brianboerner @ April 17 2002,21:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kv6v @ April 17 2002,18:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">kv6v wrote:
The impression I get from your post is, "That since it doesn't happen all that often", the negative impact the contest causes to 'non contest' operations, is far outweighed by your own selfish needs to 'compete over the air'.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, I think you have it wrong. The point is, things don't always go your way. There are many aspects of the hobby and ragchewing is no more important than contesting is. Why? Because some people like ragchewing and some people like contesting. Some people like to chase DX and others enjoy passing traffic. It's a diverse hobby and we all need to just get over the fact that the bands are dedicated to whatever we like best. Everyone else shouldn't just go away because we don't agree with what they are doing. I enjoy contesting and so do a lot of other folks. And yes, when you get that many people on at one time, there is going to be the occational rude jerk that ruins it for everyone. But, if I'm enjoying a casual CW contact and a traffic net comes along, I move aside. We all have to share. There's certainly other things to do besides complain. What if you planned antenna or project work around contest weekends? All I'm saying is that there are two sides to every coin. It's always 50:50.

-Brian
73 de W2SUQ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You're absolutely right. But, just as ragchewing is no more improtant than contesting, contesting is no more important than ragchewing. We all DO need to learn to share. Just as ragchewers need to share with contesters, contesters need to share with ragchewers. As I stated in a previous post, no single radio activity should dominate the bands. Contesters should be considerate of others that want to pursue their hobby by ragchewing, DXing, running a net, etc. - even while their contest is in progress. Contesters argue that there are only a few contests a year. That is not true. The state QSO Parties occur most every week. Often, there are 2 or 3 contests in progress during the same weekend. Most use both CW and phone at the same time, so there goes another argument that non-contesters can use CW when a phone contest is running and vice-versa. Like you said, there ARE 2 sides to every coin. We all need to learn to share the bands with each other and we all need to learn to be considerate of each other.

Getting off the topic of contests, another point is that it is not only inconsiderate of others, but it is against FCC rules to run more power than necessary to make a contact. There is no reason to be using a KW and splattering several KHz when barefoot will suffice, especially on the WARCs which are so limited in size. The same goes for running a speech processor wide open and thereby splattering several KHz + and - your operating frequency. The last 2 points had nothing to do with contesting vs. ragchewing, but nevertheless need to be mentioned. My post speaks in generality and is not directed at Brian (W2SUQ) or anyone else in particular.

73 de Mark
KF4BOT

Thank-you Bob! I couldn't agree with you more!

With all the problems we have on our bands, "ragchewing" is the least of them.

I got in #to this service/hobby to talk to people in far away lands. To get to know how others live. In my option, you can't do that in "contest mode".

Yes, I get out there and add to you contester's and hunter's numbers, that can be fun too.

But, "ragchewing" doesn't make it "CB". Try listening to "CB" radio, S9/S9+ of just noise, let alone any "intelligent" conversations.

Try listening to how intelligent "you anti-ragchewers" sound in a pile-up.

Cary-KC8JKA

[N8YV]

An excellent thread (congrats to all for not veering it into the Code/No-code trashbin)! #Aside from patting all on the back for the great replies, viewpoints stated and intelligent discussion, I am mainly writing to promote my own minor "causes", as pertinent to the nature of this thread.

I feel that "ragchewing" is to amateur radio, what "Sunday tours" are to automobile driving. #Yes, it may be a "waste" of gasoline, sure it places "unnecessary" wear on the vehicle and yes, maybe it does increase the odds of being involved in a collision! #However, it is the implicit privilege of every licensed amateur to be able to enjoy a good, casual and lengthy QSO, as long as all FCC and international rules are adhered to.

Personally, I respect the comments made by the original poster, whether I agree or disagree with them. #I enjoy the chance to ragchew from time to time, although I intentionally avoid controversial subject matter that will tend to invite trouble from the "hedge dwellers". #I also avoid QRM-ing, even with regard to such closed societies as the "quality audio" cultists---of whom, I generally do not approve---and the "AM" groups, who are perhaps the most-QRM'ed operators in modern history!

I make mention of these two groups specifically, because I see them as having, other than their frequent QRM, #one thing in common---bandwidth---although I favor one group and not the other. #I am not an "AM'er", nor am I a transmit-audio enthusiast. #I feel that these two groups, in general, are looked down upon by many amateurs because of the by-product of their respective "pursuits".

However, I "side" with the AM'ers much more than I do the SSB audio-quality enthusiasts. #I do so because the AM operators are bound by the very nature of their mode, to occupy a wider bandwidth than that of an SSB operator. #It's a physical fact that a carrier and two sidebands must occupy a certain amount of space in the spectrum greater than an SSB signal.

Some transmit-audio operators however, are pushing their occupied spectrum space beyond their "fair share". I have personally encountered interference from certain regular practitioners of this questionable pursuit, far outside a 6-KHz distance from their center frequency.
This translates to more than DOUBLE the total equivalent spectrum occupied by a clean, non-overmodulated AM-mode amateur signal. #

This is not expressly illegal, but is nonetheless very poor hamsmanship and represents equally poor operating practice. (I will not elaborate further here, as it is beyond the scope of this forum; #I will happily correspond with those of intelligent opposing viewpoint).

The bottom of the barrel for any ham is reached when #deliberate and intentional interference is made to anyone licensed to operate amateur radio, even in cases where another operator is in violation of the rules, himself. #You can't prevent bad behavior by practicing bad behavior!

[n8vw]

Hey everybody. If everyone decided one day to get on the air there would not be enough room for everybody. This is why contests get such a bad rap.

Enjoy your rag chews and your contests and whatever else you might be doing on the air. Be nice to each other and if something bad happens don't take it as a personal attach against you or your personal aspect of the hobby.

[n5xm]

You will usually find me ragchewing on CW, but when I do get on phone, that is what I do there, also. #To me, Ham Radio is more about people than anything else, and there is nothing better than getting into an in-depth conversation with someone, CW or phone. #
# # # #As far as Political Correctness is concerned, it is the fraud of the last 50 years, and the brainchild of the Intellectual Fascist left-wingers who not only believe what they want to believe, but think they have the right to tell me what I am to believe, as well. #Bullroar. I reserve the right to believe what I want, to say whatever I want, whenever I want, to whomever I want. #I'll deal with the consequences. #
# # # #Everybody seems afraid that someone is going to be offended. #Not me. #I am as gentle as I can be, and wouldn't hurt a fly, but I will joust with anyone Intellectually. #It's only words, folks! #None of these opinions threaten my, and they sholdn't threaten anyone else, but hey, that doesn't mean that you can't disagree with them if you want. #That's your privelege. #Just don't try to tell me what to believe, or tell me what I can or cannot say.

[Midwest]

I cannot think of a poorer use of limited bandwidth than rag chewing. Most of it is just idle opinion and everyone has one of those. #If one has notions that they think are of value, let them research the subject, present the results for professional critique, study the feedback, polish the presentation, and then present the thoughts in final form for public consumption. It is a waste of everyone's time and resources to fill the frequencies with meaningless babble. I think we can do better than that.
73,

[N1NKM]

Whew... I've read through this entire thread, and ya know... I, too, have to say "Mega-Dittos, Dudes!" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif LOL!

In all seriousness, I find that this kind of discussion is what we *ALL* should strive to encourage! Intelligent & thoughtful, with a generous sprinking of personal opinions, but NO ATTACKS! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Yes, kudos are in order for everyone here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ok, enough back-slapping... time to roll up the ol' sleeves, and let the fingers do the talking!

What I strongly dislike about the contests, is when they completely occupy the bands... which DOES happen. This is why there SHOULD BE some limits. How to enforce them? Simple... if the contact occurs on a frequency outside the "allowed" range, it doesn't count.

When contests completely occupy every available Khz of spectrum, that denies every non-contester their enjoyment of the Hobby! That isn't fair. I just upgraded to Extra in November 2001. (I was a Tech Plus since Sept of 1992.) Wouldn't you know it... MURPHY'S LAW kicks in at FULL FORCE... that very first weekend that I want to try out my new privileges, ALL BANDS (on my rig), from 80-10 are TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY JAMMED FULL from top-to-bottom, by "CQ CONTEST! CQ CONTEST!" I was furious, and shut off the rig in disgust. Thankfully, the following weekend was normal, and I was able to make a few leisurely contacts, and actually exchange information beyond "You're 5/9, OM! 73!"

As for ragchews... *AMEN*! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif That is one of the very reasons I got into the Hobby, myself! Those "You're 5/9 OM, 73!" contacts are just totally *NOT* for me. IMHO, it's a complete waste of time. I want to get to know something about the person on the other end, and share a little something about myself, too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif What kind of rig does he have? Antennas? Interesting tidbits about something unusual in their area, etc.

Someone here said that ragchewing is a waste of spectrum... Why do you feel that way? Why is getting to KNOW someone a waste of spectrum? Since when is caring enough about your fellow man to want to know them, and even "risk" developing a long-term friendship, ever been a waste of time or spectrum?

If people want to yell "CQ CONTEST! CQ CONTEST!" until they're hoarse & their finals melt, all I can say is "LESS power to 'em"!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Hehehe

I also really enjoy homebrewing, but that's another subject! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Thanks to Bob for starting this very enjoyable thread! Let's *ALL* strive to keep the Amateur Spirit ALIVE, guys!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kc9bcy]

"I Hereby Pronounce all types of rag-chewing on the ham bands, by authorized persons, are necessary, to ensure proper operation of equipment, for education of any number of miscelanious facts and opinions to aid in improving the quality of rag-chewing, and allowing transmission equipment a chance to burn in or burn out. Without this fundamental area of ham radio operation, there would be no accurate way to be certain that education and awareness would be available to those in need, so they to may become interested in the ham service, and begin their own quest in radio perfection."

i don't know who's quote that is, but it sounds good...

[KC2GMN]

I do agree on a few points. It only took me 40 years to finally get my ticket and finally did it, after spending a good deal of it on the cb band. #

I get very frustrated in answering a CQ only to be told that I'm 59 and goodbye! It seems that everyone of these stations the only thing they know is 59. Is this because their mega buck rigs only show this signal reading? #I would like to exchange more than just hi, a signal report and goodbye. #

This type of operation I have found quite a bit on 10 meters. 10 however seems to be one of the few places that nets are not in control of the band. There are stations out there who really want to talk, they may seem to be far and few in between, but they are out there. I have managed to log a few contacts that lasted for what might be considered a "rag chew" mostly from the car on my converted Cobra cb rig.

I do however on occasion look for the special event stations here in the US, but don't go out of my way to find them either.

When a contest weekend comes up and I start tuning across the bands find out it's a contest weekend, #I turn the rig off, and don't even waste the electricity to fire up the finals. (It's an old hybrid rig TS820 and Heathkit SB200) BTW the SB200 is very rarely turned on, except for the pile up's for the occasional special event station I might like to reach. This is the very rare occurance that I will go with the Hi, 59, Goodbye. I do however usually try to engage a little conversation with the operator to break some of their boredom and let them know that someone out there really appreciates what they are doing.

About the only place that I have heard any sort of nonsense going on is on 75, with the cat calls, whistles, and other sort of "possible" jaming (extended tuning w/o id's) has occured.

I have also heard the audio fanatics too, they remind me of the folks from the hifi world with the golden ears who can hear the sonic difference between gold plated RCA connectors and regular ones. I personally don't care what people are using to (who's mike, speech processor, etc) communicate with, as long as they are clear, intelligible, and not causing interference on adjacent frequencies.

2 meters around here many of the repeaters sound like a bunch of frustrated channel master ex cb'ers who left the old SSB ranks and moved up there. #I personally very rarely go on the repeaters, and spend much of my time when I'm in the shack monitoring 146.52 simplex and talk to the folks who show up there.

Yes it does seem that rag chewing is a lost art, but it is not dead. #Those of us who really want to meet new people and find out what life is like in another part of the US or world is really like will find those of like mind.

I personally enjoy working on older equipment (boatanchors), converting other equipment to the ham bands and generally building stuff, but that's for another soapbox.

[kd7qkh]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Midwest @ April 19 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I cannot think of a poorer use of limited bandwidth than rag chewing. Most of it is just idle opinion and everyone has one of those. #If one has notions that they think are of value, let them research the subject, present the results for professional critique, study the feedback, polish the presentation, and then present the thoughts in final form for public consumption. It is a waste of everyone's time and resources to fill the frequencies with meaningless babble. I think we can do better than that.
73,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Great bit of humor there!

With that WAC and DXCC and $1.75 you get a cup of coffee at 7-11.

I have better looking wallpaper lining my cat box. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Sure it is an accomplishment to know that in an emergency you can still call someone in Austrailia. I want to be able to find that out for myself. But that is not why I got my ticket. I earned my now extra ticket for the main reason of RagChewing. I am still waiting for a simplex RC to truely qualify. (only had my ticket for a month. ) I won't count the drives chatting on the repeater with another lonely soul.

Sure, emergency comms is important, that is the reason for field day ops and quick DX. See what you can do when everything happens at once. I am looking forward to getting some QSL cards myself.

But if ALL you want to do is 'wham bam thank you ham' I think you have wasted a lot of time and $$$. Look out in the other room... See those strange people? They are known as Family. Introduce yourself.

Glenn
KD7QKH/AE

[w0bdr]

Thanks Bob,

I agree with you all the way. We have enough contesting going on and need to curtail a lot of it. So many of those who do contesting are very ignorant of Amateur Etiquette. They need to take lessons.

Benrie WØBDR

[wg7x]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1NKM @ April 19 2002,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">! That isn't fair. I just upgraded to Extra in November 2001. (I was a Tech Plus since Sept of 1992.) Wouldn't you know it... MURPHY'S LAW kicks in at FULL FORCE... that very first weekend that I want to try out my new privileges, ALL BANDS (on my rig), from 80-10 are TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY JAMMED FULL from top-to-bottom, by "CQ CONTEST! CQ CONTEST!" I was furious, and shut off the rig in disgust[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Congrats on the upgrade OM!

But, and I find this very interesting, why did you get angry and turn off the rig?

Was it because things were not going your way?
If so, that's more than a little immature don't you think?

Long ago, I decided to make the best of this situation and use the contestors to MY advantage!

How? you ask..

Well I'll tell you. Take your example. New rig/ticket, contest weekend: Oh my! However will I cope?!?

Well, what better way to test your new ticket and rig? Jump in with both feet and make a few Q's. You will know immediately whether people can hear you or not, and may work a new state/dxcc country in the process!

I have used the various contests like that for years, and in the process I have had a lot of fun. Sure I could turn off my rig in disgust also, but what would that prove, except that I had very little tolerance for things that I could not change?

Make the best of the situation, for crying out loud! What are we going to do when the sunspot cycle causes the upper three HF bands to close down? Are we going to protest here on the internet?

Of course not! We will instead investigate other bands or modes in hopes of finding something that will keep our interest until Mr. Sol gets freckles again!

So, try to keep your temper in check and instead of getting angry (which is bad for you anyways!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, at least TRY to have a little fun. Make the best of what might be a bad situation. Contests are not going away, neither are nets.

Who knows? You might just find that you enjoy one of these anger inducing activities!

Could happen!

73 Gary, WG7X

PS: Disclaimer: I have participated in many contests since I got my ticket, but not because I enjoyed contesting per se: rather I used the contest to find new countries and states, etcetera. In other words, I have taken my own advice. In the process I have had lots of fun, worked all fifty states on almost all bands and over 250 countries. Think of all that I would have missed if I had turned off the rig in disgust!

[KD7QXS]

[Hey I talk about politics on the air all the time. I love ragchewing on repeaters with my friends about why Democrats and liberals suck so much just hoping somebody will chime something in. Even on HF when I talk to somebody and things turn to politics nobody ever breaks in to make rude comments. I just figured I must be right. ]

My guess is people don't break in and make "rude comments" because you're not worth it. You and Rush Limbaugh can keep on thinking you have all the answers and everybody else's opinions are stupid and they just "suck." Fools like you don't warrant an intelligent response most of the time but I would like to make the point that it takes all types of people and opinions to make this old world go round. Some people like to spout off about individual rights (i.e. guns) out one side of their mouth and then trample on others' rights, such as the right to their opinion or to use the airwaves for what they enjoy, out the other side. I don't necessarily agree with everything political correctness has produced but I don't think it's unreasonable to respect everybody and not be rude just because it's your right to be a jackass. Remember the FCC ban on foul language on the air? That's so we don't offend people. Is that just B.S.? I don't think so. I think it's a little thing called common courtesy and gentleman-like behavior, something this country could use more of. Isn't there enough inflammatory hate-filled crap in the world already? Let's promote good will and peace by respecting each other instead of telling people they suck on a public medium. Just my humble opinion.
73 Jeff http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N5VRZ]

What an educational thread! #I really appreciate all the input here, and find it all illuminating. #Points of view, and how we react to them keep the hobby interesting for me. #

My first exposure to the hobby were AM rag chewers on HF back in the sixties, and I still love it. #My favorite mode is CW, but I enjoy an artful rag chewer when I come across one. #Contests can become hectic, and even preclude a long, lazy contact every now and then. #Not a big deal in my book. #Why?

These folks that are contesting are having a BALL!!!! #I love it! #When I go to the park, just because I don't play Frisbee Golf doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching a casual game, because those that do enjoy it, show it....and that in itself is uplifting. #God bless all hams, including these busy, intense and serious contesters. #They, just like my rag chewing friends, are a cherished part of the hobby. #They are active (very!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, they are part of the lifeblood of the hobby, and they can be interesting people to get to know, once the sugar rush of the contest weekend fueled by Snickers bars and CocaColas wears off!!!! #

Seriously. #No need to call names, Jeff! #In my opinion, the only ones that are the real "fools" when it comes to ham radio, are the ones that never find their niche in it, and consequently never add to it.....whether they might be shooting the breeze or shooting for multipliers.

My point is, nobody is hurt by either activity (really), and we all sure seem to have a lot of fun no matter what we are doing. #If you aren't having an absolute blast with this hobby, please speak up. #I think that most of the rest of us would love to help you in any way we can. #Seriously! # #

73 to all, AND HAVE FUN!!!!
de N5VRZ
- david

[kg6amw]

Don't confuse rude behavior with an attack on rag chewing. #Rag chewing is not under attack, proper behavior is. #Carry on and ignore the interference.

[kb6mth]

Greetings-
i have now read the entire thread and feel compelled to reply. i am a member of a contesting club, we call ourselves the "Winston-Salem Courteous Operators Club". i was previously a rag-chew-only ham. the club is full of really nice guys who make a high priority out of contesting in a courteous (i daresay even professional) manner.
we try to make sure that we don't interfere with anyone else and we try not to interrupt ongoing QSO's, even with DX stations.
I love this hobby. My interaction with the contesting club and our local community club is what spurred me to go from General to Extra. Homebrewing, mobile ops, emergency and disaster comms, HF ragchew, contesting, digital modes, satellite. ÊAmateur Radio has something for everyone.
It has been very nice to read all the posts here. I'm glad to see that we can disagree about what we believe in, but we all have the decency (or humanity) not to make personal or inflammatory attacks on one another.
Tonight, I will raise a glass of ale in honor of all of you who carry on the effort to be polite (not necessarily politically correct) when on the air.
Thank you for indulging me.

[KF4BOT]

kb6mth, my hat is off to you. Ham radio needs more like you and the Winston-Salem Courteous Operators Club. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Most of what I've witnessed in contesters is the exact opposite - rudeness, lack of consideration, get points at any price no matter who they step on, etc. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Whatever the activity - be it contesting, ragchewing, DXing, nets, and whatever else, ham radio needs more courtesy and consideration. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #I was on a soapbox in a previous post, and I feel its time to add some more points. It is inconsiderate to tune up on a frequency that one knows there is a QSO on (happens all the time), and it is inconsiderate to call CQ without asking if the frequency is in use first and listening (this also happens all the time). #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[WB9TCO]

Yes, the ARRL is responsible for this mess, too. All because they want to keep the dx hog money rolling in.

A DXCC contact should last a minimum of 30 minutes. Not this " 59, QSL via the buro" crap. Anything less than that is NOT a contact in my book.

[kf6ewo]

Everyone was worried the NO CODERS would cause problems on the HF Bands.

[ke4cij]

I recently went to a local ham fest at which this same thing was being discussed by a couple of older hams.(Neither I might add should have a ticket by the way they acted) I feel rag-chewing is fine and a great way to meet folks. It should be done in the proper fashion of course.
My biggest grip is this, when folks rag-chew give a little time before keying up. I tried almost 30 minutes today to talk on 2 meters to several guys whom are friends of mine and never got the chance to say hello and add in the current conversation. I was taught to give a small pause in between the keys. I was also taught not to jump into a coversation unless I could add to it. That happens a lot now a days. 2 or more hams could be talking about a certain topic and here comes wise ass who decides to talk about the wind blowing. Now that is just down right rude. #My elmer was a ham before I was born and taught me I guess in the ways of the past but it worked then and it would work well now.
Rag-chewing is fine and should be done and will be done. I agree with what is being said but I figure we should do it correctly and in the correct areas. I am a little of topic but this is what I think.
As far as speaking your mind I say go for it because if you think about it, all those crying about what your saying do. WHY can't you.
Politically Correct or not...I suppose we in the south may not speak or spell to well but its like this speak your mind no matter who it offends because no one cares if they offend you. Politically Correct should be against the law. Just like sending jobs away and letting everyone speak a different language. English is what it should be..Now that wasn't abit Politically Correct! Neither is my grammer or spelling and I am sure wise ass will comment on that. But that is his right. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[G3RZP]

N8VW had it right. The CQWW #contest usually has about 35,000 callsigns #logged as having taken part in some way. Now just imagine if those 35,000 stations were all trying to ragchew! What chance would YOU have to get on?

[KB3CAE]

First of all, let me say that I think Bob is 100% right.
Ragchewing has always been the fun part in the ham radio hobby, it's what makes it interesting and facsinating to find out what goes on in their part of the world, what the weather is like, what they do in everyday life, just to know that there is life out there besides just in my area of the world, and if possible to make a distant friend. I respect the right of others to contest if they want to contest, but to think that we ragchewers have no place on the band is wrong. I also see nothing wrong with emergency prepardness and having practice drills in order to be ready if the situation should ever arrise. I think it's great that we hams help out in times of need, but lately in my area it's all you hear on 2meter.
Just so no one out there takes me the wrong way, like I said I see nothing wrong with being prepared for emergency, or with contesting. When we study for the exams to get our ticket, and I am sure alot of you have read Gorden West's books. He explains about what a fun and interesting hobby ham radio is, but it seems to me that when I get on anymore to talk about experimenting with a new antenna, or trying out a new rig that it has no place on the air. The fcc tells us use it or loose it, but the meaning I get anymore when I get on the air is use it or loose it, but stay off the frequency (Keep it open). So I would like to know, just where is all of the fun? I believe that Bob is right, we ragchewers have a place on the air too. I also believe what alot of you others say out there too, we need to have a little more respect for others on the air, whether we are contesting or ragchewing. Listen, and then ask if the frequency is in use. Also other stations that happen to be in a qso on a frequency if another station happens to break in with qsk instead of saying (sorry the frequency is in use)wouldn't it be more proper to invite the station into the qso instead of telling them to leave the frequency because its in use? I had thought about when my license expired, not even renewing them and just selling all of my equipment, but now Bob has re-sparked some of my interest again. Bob, I would like to say thanks. We need more like you out there. For now, happy dxing, (and ragchewing) lets keep it fun.
kb3cae@pennswoods.net

[K2HYQ]

Content & length of QSO's is the business of the participants ONLY. When we all think alike, watch out !

The recent exposition of 'proud arrogance & ignorance' now found on 20m & even 17m is (in my opinion) the result of frustration by many who have no patience with those who's life experiences do not reflect their own. My friends and I were in a QSO talking about some of our most disliked policitco's who were in office during our formative years. The comments slung our way were not about the subject but an insulting statement aimed at us as individuals...now how stupid can that be ?

My radio has a dial....and it turns both clockwise and counter-clockwise...

Profanity in these email responses is most interesting. It appears that those vocabularily challenged are still don't get it....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob, you really know how to shake up the cages of our
"light-weight" members... 73, Jim K2HYQ

[KC2JCA]

"Ragchewing By CW"... Words of wisdom, if you ask me. Why? Because all of the people who don't have enough respect for ham radio and it's various modes of operation, and those who are the most vocal (no matter how stupid what they say really is) or those who jam, tune, whistle or heckle a "rag-chew", these are the ones who never had the motivation to learn code. So "Ragchewing By CW" is a great place now to get into some good old time conversations. The bozos can't figure out what you are saying, in fact, they are scared to even tune those parts of the band. They fear CODE might rub off on them, then where would they be?

73, Jim - kc2jca

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2JCA @ April 21 2002,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Ragchewing By CW"... Words of wisdom, if you ask me. Why? Because all of the people who don't have enough respect for ham radio and it's various modes of operation, and those who are the most vocal (no matter how stupid what they say really is) or those who jam, tune, whistle or heckle a "rag-chew", these are the ones who never had the motivation to learn code. So "Ragchewing By CW" is a great place now to get into some good old time conversations. The bozos can't figure out what you are saying, in fact, they are scared to even tune those parts of the band. They fear CODE might rub off on them, then where would they be?

73, Jim - kc2jca[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey Jim, don't lump people like me, who advocate the dropping of the CW requirement from the ITU, in with those bozos that jam and heckle "Rag Chewers". Just because we want the requirement dropped does not mean that we do not have "respect for the hobby" or a lack of self discipline.

The multi-hundred post, Code / No-Code debate may now begin http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Terry

[AG4QV]

I have read several posts to this thread about how certain frequencies are "unofficially" known as being used for special purposes such as DX. I have also read ARRL's band plan and can find no mention of these frequencies. As I don't want to have some Ham jumping all over me (on the air or off) because I have violated his or her "unofficial" band plan, where are these "unofficial" band plans made public? I am more than willing (as I believe we all should be) to move a 2 or 3 person rag-chewing session to allow a far greater number of Hams to also enjoy the bands. Problem is, it's like wandering around in a mine field. How do I know if I move that I don't inadvertantly violate someone else's "unofficial" band plan? BTW, it doesn't help if the "unofficial" band plans are published in some DX contest rules that only the contestants read.

Robert, AG4QV

[WB9YBM]

You're right, rag-chewing's getting to be a lost art. People in this "me generation" are so self-centered (or, for the less cynically minded, "too busy") to be receptive to new ideas--hearing about them, exhanging them, developing them, etc. On two meters, I've even heard threats of fist fights breaking out due to ragchewing--so much for comraderie in our community! The only exception to all this that I've noticed is up on 220 MHz...

[W0BKR]

Well, Bob, sorry you experienced that. But to be honest, most of us have. A person in today's society cannot have a view, especially one that is deemed "conservative" without bashing, verbal assault, threats, etc. It is truly a sad state of affairs. The microphone and even the keyboard, is an instrument of anonymity. Cowards and bullies hide behind them and fling their insults, stupid remarks, chides, etc., no matter what the content of the QSO, no matter what the topic. I choose to ignore stupid individuals like these and go on with my life. They are obviously, very unhappy and unsatisfied individuals.

A friend of mine and I were "complaining" about not having a fair shot at working the P5 recently. You should have seen the stupid remarks from a WB6 and a WA2 station. Of course, having been given opportunities to work the P5 (West Coast Only...QRZ...and Call areas 1-3 only, QRZ), takes the work out of it to a larger degree then us having to fight the entire world in working this new "DX (questionable) entity".

People like that cannot accept another's views, feelings, etc., nor respect where someone is coming from. Theirs is "the only right way", the "only right mindset". I pity individuals like them because it is plainly obvious, that they are unhappy with themselves, feel insignificant, or are impotent in dealing with the issues of life when things are handed to them constantly.

Deliberate QRM is illegal. Off color discussions are too on amateur radio, especially when it is offensive. We are not "open" to hold any kind of forum that is deemed obscene. There are other avenues for that stuff. What you describe is a QSO with lids hanging around the frequency.

One can only hope that over time, more enforcement will clean the gutters of these losers and allow the FCC to start focusing on other issues.

GL and hang in there. Rag chew to your hearts content!

[KC2JCA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ April 22 2002,12:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey Jim, don't lump people like me, who advocate the dropping of the CW requirement from the ITU, in with those bozos that jam and heckle "Rag Chewers". Just because we want the requirement dropped does not mean that we do not have "respect for the hobby" or a lack of self discipline.

The multi-hundred post, Code / No-Code debate may now begin #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Terry[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Truly, I wasn't lumping anyone in with one else. However, let's not also forget that the true root of the CODE/NO CODE debate is that there are people who have blurred/obliterated/misunderstood the difference between what is meant by "RIGHT" and "PRIVILEGE".

I have yet to run across a NO CODE advocate who's main argument, about dropping the requirement, is they should have as much RIGHT to operate on HF as the next guy.

And I agree, 100%. Everyone has the same right to operate on HF. However, not everyone gets the privilege.

To make it easier to understand, everyone (in the USA) has the right to drive a car, but you only get that privilege when you demonstrate you understand basic controls, how to operate them, basic rules of the road and how to abide by them. You can lose that privilege by repeatedly breaking the rules and having your license revoked.

The same exists with HF. Everyone has the right to use the HF frequencies, and they gain that privilege when they have demonstrated they have the ability to copy 5 WPM Morse Code.

Let's put this into even more of perspective. 3 years ago I was struck down with a severe case of Lyme Disease. It paralyzed me for several months, created a neurological condition called encephalytis (which causes me to have non-existant short term memory functions), it also put upon me fibromyalgia, arthritis and a host of other conditions incurable because of lack of diagnosis and passage of time.

I spent $19 on a CD set from the ARRL called, "Your Introduction To Morse Code" and 2 months later was able to copy enough code to pass the 5 WPM requirement.

Do I send 35 WPM? No. Can I copy 35 WPM? No. Do I send perfect code? No. Sometimes I mix up my Q's and X's, and it always takes me a second or two to remember the numbers.

But, you know what? I feel pretty good about being able to overcome some physical and mental handicaps and being able to do, at least minimally, what is required to gain an operating priviledge.

Do I have a sympathetic ear towards those who just wish the code requirement to be dropped because they feel it is no longer used, too hard or just because they want something handed to them for doing nothing more than learning to push a PTT button?

No, sorry, I'm disabled and I did it. You can do it, and you'll be so surprised when you have. In fact, as soon as you pass the code test, give me a call, I'm usually on 40 meters. I'll be more than happy to have the chance to QSO with you in CW mode

73, Jim - kc2jca

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2JCA @ April 22 2002,10:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do I have a sympathetic ear towards those who just wish the code requirement to be dropped because they feel it is no longer used, too hard or just because they want something handed to them for doing nothing more than learning to push a PTT button?

No, sorry, I'm disabled and I did it. You can do it, and you'll be so surprised when you have. In fact, as soon as you pass the code test, give me a call, I'm usually on 40 meters. I'll be more than happy to have the chance to QSO with you in CW mode[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Jim,
First off, hate to hear about your disability. That sucks. Glad to see you found a way to function with it.

I am not going to turn the thread into the "Great Code Debate", but instead will ask that you take a second to see that because someone advocates the removal of the CW requirement for HF from the ITU, it does not mean that they are the "ham radio boogie man".

I don't have a code key for my rig, but I will be happy to QSO with you via PSK-31 on 20 or 10 Meters http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-- Terry

[BeenThere]

I've done some "rag chewing" on HF and it can be fun. BUT, the biggest pet peeve I have about "rag chewing" is when 2 or more people get on the air and then talk about what amounts to... NOTHING.

Also, there are times/situations when rag chewing is NOT appropriate.

For example: 2 years ago, I was driving on the turnpike when my transmission decided to "self-destruct". Fortunately, I was able to safely pull over, right before it went.

Since I was stranded, I pulled out my Yaesu VX-5R and dialed in a UHF repeater to call for assistance.

Unfortunately, this system was tied up by two very inconsiderate hams who were so busy rag chewing that they didn't even leave enough lag time for the repeater's courtesy tone to be heard!

I couldn't even key up at any time during their conversation to break in with a call for assistance! To add further insult to injury, these two hams were tying up a multirepeater link-system (14 repeaters, cross-linked).

THANKS A LOT!!

This rag chew lasted for over 20 solid minutes and even though I was only two miles away from one of the repeaters, the voting system and/or their signals had priority. I was so angry that I wrote down their callsigns so I could later decide what action to take.

Fortunately, there was a local 2 meter repeater which I was able to find and another ham answered my call for assistance and sent out a tow truck - bless him.

What was the outcome?... When I finally got home, I looked up the one ham's callsign. It turned out that he was the original founder and former president of the ham club I belong to!

The other ham? He was a pirate and the legitimate ham was totally unaware that he was working a pirate!

I decided to not say anything, but I did send a nice (friendly) email to the legitimate ham telling him that the other ham he worked was a pirate - I did not mention my frustration at being "blocked out" when attempting to call for assistance.

I never did received a reply or acknowledgement from this ham, a real disappointment - so much for communication!!

BTW - This MAJOR linked repeater system which covers about 5-6 states, now has a digitized voice which says "QSO Timer 15 Minutes" at certain times when the repeater system is keyed up. Gee, I wonder why?!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KC2JCA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ April 23 2002,10:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't have a code key for my rig, but I will be happy to QSO with you via PSK-31 on 20 or 10 Meters http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-- Terry[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't know much about that mode. Isn't that just like typing?

73, Jim - kc2jca

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2JCA @ April 22 2002,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know much about that mode. Isn't that just like typing?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yea, just like CW is pounding brass.

Actually there is more to understanding how PSK-31 works than "just typing". Here is a link that can get you started. (http://www.peak.org/~forrerj/hfpsk.htm)

[KC2JCA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ April 23 2002,17:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2JCA @ April 22 2002,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know much about that mode. Isn't that just like typing?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yea, just like CW is pounding brass.

Actually there is more to understanding how PSK-31 works than "just typing". Here is a link that can get you started. (http://www.peak.org/~forrerj/hfpsk.htm)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Oh, that's okay, I already have it installed on my computer. But then, I realized I already have access to thousands of chat rooms and BBSes, and I don't even need a license or anything.

It's called the internet.


Thanks, but I'll stick to real radio.


73, Jim - kc2jca

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2JCA @ April 22 2002,19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, that's okay, I already have it installed on my computer. But then, I realized I already have access to thousands of chat rooms and BBSes, and I don't even need a license or anything.

It's called the internet.


Thanks, but I'll stick to real radio.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, when I get tired of advanced digital HF communications, I will pick up a key and meet you on "real" radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC2JCA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ April 23 2002,19:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, when I get tired of advanced digital HF communications, I will pick up a key and meet you on "real" radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Deal.

(Advanced Digital HF Communications... I suppose cell phone users will want vanity license plates next.)

[W2DUG]

I'd hardly call 31 baud "advanced digital communications", although perhaps the technology to implement it may be considered advanced.

But, more importantly, PSK31 is a valid mode for rag-chewing that is growing in popularity. #CW is another perfectly valid mode for rag-chewing, perhaps dwindling in popularity, but nonetheless a favorite among many. #Rag-chewing is what this thread was supposed to be about, not an ego struggle between two guys who think their preferred rag-chewing mode is the best. #I think you would both agree that the value of rag-chewing is high, or else you wouldn't be bothering with either mode.

The radio hobby has room for everyone...no need to fight for dominance.

- Doug, KC2GVA

[KF4BOT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I decided to not say anything, but I did send a nice (friendly) email to the legitimate ham telling him that the other ham he worked was a pirate - I did not mention my frustration at being "blocked out" when attempting to call for assistance. #

I never did received a reply or acknowledgement from this ham, a real disappointment - so much for communication!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The pirate ham was probably a friend of the legitimate ham. The legitimate ham could have coached him and told him what to use for a legitimate-sounding bogus callsign, to get him on the air. You should have reported both to the FCC. If anything, the legitimate ham was interfering with an emergency communication by not allowing you to call for help. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc2gva @ April 23 2002,07:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd hardly call 31 baud "advanced digital communications", although perhaps the technology to implement it may be considered advanced.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey Doug,
Check out the link I posted. The reasoning behind the slow baud rate is because with a slow throughput you can trade off bandwith and power. It's really neat to see how it works. As far as using the mode, It's about the only mode I have ever caught myself rag chewing with.

Anyway as far the point I was attempting to make, my original post to Jim covers that. I am serious about not having a key. When I pick one up, I will play around with CW. If I run into Jim on 40, that would be great.

[KB4FOS]

Rag-chewing is cool. It is "politically correct" to get on a soapbox and discuss the band conditions, the job, the kids, or pretty much anything else that comes to mind during one of these contacts, as long as courtesy prevails. It's a matter of taste as to what subjects are avoided and I do avoid certain topics that tend to get folks riled, such as religion and politics. It's not a question of "dumbing-down" or "it's my right". To me, it's a matter of "common sense". A love of radio is what we all have in "common" and it makes little "sense" to me to look for rifts in our ranks of cultural differences, as if we were on some kind of search and destroy mission to convert others to our way of thinking.

The ones who blurt out and harass without a proper ID are breaking the law. They should always be ignored, just as a coronal hole, S-9 noise level is. RF anarchists were to be expected with the lowering of licensing standards. The "dumbing-down" of amateur radio's rank and file doesn't mean that the rest of us can't continue the grand traditions of rag-chewing and audiophile precision. We just have to adjust our expectations a bit and practice patience, moving 5KC if necessary and documenting when we're followed and stalked...

JaxJoe KB4FOS
SpectrumArc (http://www.joe.firstcoastonline.com/index.htm)

[AC7SQ]

The reason I returned to Ham radio 25+ years after I got frustrated after failing to make one full min of perfect copy of CW @ 13 WPM. The first time was at the FCC office as a teenager. I was shaking trying to copy. The second time was 10 years ago again I just could not get that 1 full min of copy. I droped out again. I had passed the General and Advanced written tests but was still a Tech Plus.

I have to admit I am happy they droped the higher speed requirments for General and even higher for Extra. Because of this I just got my new Extra call letters today.

Enough on the code requirments. I keep comming back because there are so meny facets to this hobby. If I decide to rag chew today I can! If I want to hang out in a DX pile up I can! If I want to work with 1 watt I can! If I want to operate a boatanchor that is slightly off the calling freq.(so long as I am not out of the band) I can! The point is there are a few rules the FCC puts out there so long as you do not violate them. There is so meny different ways to enjoy this hobby. So ENJOY everyone!

73's everyone
Mark AC7SQ

[N1NKM]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc2gva @ April 24 2002,09:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd hardly call 31 baud "advanced digital communications", although perhaps the technology to implement it may be considered advanced.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The nifty thing about PSK31, is not that it is only 31 baud... it's not intended to send files... it is intended for keyboard-to-keyboard chats. Believe me, 31 baud is PLENTY fast for most average typing! Also, the way it is encoded, like CW, the most often used characters use the shortest "data word", so the actual THROUGHPUT is about 5 chars per second, not 3. It's really quite ingenious!!

As KE4PJW said, the main advantage is the VERY narrow bandwidth! CW needs about 500Hz. PSK31 can get by with about 40 Hz! I have seen QSO's right next to each other and could decode them both with perfect clarity! In the space of ONE, SINGLE voice channel (3Khz) There are literally DOZENS of simultaneous QSO's going on! Talk about spectrum efficiency! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Imagine it... 50 or 60 hams, all having ragchews at the same time, in the same 3Khz bandwidth, with PLENTY of room for others! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I, too, really enjoy getting into serious ragchews on PSK! Look for me on 20 meters, as that is my favorite "hangout". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Willie...

[BeenThere]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The pirate ham was probably a friend of the legitimate ham. The legitimate ham could have coached him and told him what to use for a legitimate-sounding bogus callsign, to get him on the air. You should have reported both to the FCC. If anything, the legitimate ham was interfering with an emergency communication by not allowing you to call for help. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You've got to be kidding! How presumptious of you to ASSUME that the real ham "knew" the pirate. I'd hate to have someone like you on a jury!! You didn't even witness what was said or what exactly transpired.

Also, there's a difference between an emergency and being temporarily stranded. I stated clearly that I was stranded and there was no "emergency" - read my post again.

As to reporting this situation to the FCC? Let's take a step back and really examine what your suggesting...

1. No one really knows who the pirate station is - so HOW will they go after and catch this guy? Especially when he's transmitting on UHF from one of 5 or 6 states in the mid-atlantic region.

2. The incident was not reminiscent of a jammer, nor was it malicious in nature. My post did make this point obvious. Remember: INTENT is important if you're going to "hang someone". NEVER assume.

3. Please see previous posts elswwhere, concerning evidence needed to obtain a conviction under this, or other similar circumstances. A tape recording is pretty much needed to provide adequate evidence. I do not tape UHF repeaters - so HOW can I offer decent proof?!

ANSWER: forget about it.

4. WHAT good would have come out of reporting this situation, other than consuming FCC resources and aggravating another ham (from my club)? Let's be realistic.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KF4BOT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BeenThere @ April 23 2002,23:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The pirate ham was probably a friend of the legitimate ham. The legitimate ham could have coached him and told him what to use for a legitimate-sounding bogus callsign, to get him on the air. You should have reported both to the FCC. If anything, the legitimate ham was interfering with an emergency communication by not allowing you to call for help. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You've got to be kidding! #How presumptious of you to ASSUME that the real ham "knew" the pirate. #I'd hate to have someone like you on a jury!! #You didn't even witness what was said or what exactly transpired.

Also, there's a difference between an emergency and being temporarily stranded. #I stated clearly that I was stranded and there was no "emergency" - read my post again.

As to reporting this situation to the FCC? #Let's take a step back and really examine what your suggesting...

1. #No one really knows who the pirate station is - so HOW will they go after and catch this guy? #Especially when he's transmitting on UHF from one of 5 or 6 states in the mid-atlantic region.

2. #The incident was not reminiscent of a jammer, nor was it malicious in nature. #My post did make this point obvious. #Remember: INTENT is important if you're going to "hang someone". #NEVER assume.

3. #Please see previous posts elswwhere, concerning evidence needed to obtain a conviction under this, or other similar circumstances. #A tape recording is pretty much needed to provide adequate evidence. #I do not tape UHF repeaters - so HOW can I offer decent proof?! #

ANSWER: forget about it.

4. #WHAT good would have come out of reporting this situation, other than consuming FCC resources and #aggravating another ham (from my club)? #Let's be realistic.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I wasn’t assuming anything. I merely brought about the possibility that the legitimate ham and the pirate were friends. I never claimed that to be an absolute. You are the one who is assuming. Yes, report it to the FCC. It takes but a few minutes to send Riley an e-mail. Most likely, no action will be taken. However, as hams we should be policing our bands and reporting any questionable activity to the FCC. If the FCC determines that action needs to be taken, they will pursue it. If not, they will drop it.

Lets look at all the possibilities:
1. The legitimate ham could have been a friend of the pirate ham.
2. The legitimate ham didn’t know he was talking to a pirate.
3. The legitimate ham could have known that he was talking to a pirate but both were strangers to each other.
4. The pirate wasn’t a pirate at all.

Could it be that the pirate wasn’t a pirate at all? You were assuming that this “alleged” pirate was indeed a pirate. There could have been several reasons that the ham in question was not in the database:
1. You could have looked up the wrong callsign. It is extremely rare that hams on VHF/UHF ID phonetically. I don’t know how many times I’ve looked someone up on QRZ, only to find that the callsign wasn’t in the database. That in itself is no reason to question the validity of a ham.
2. A new licensee will be in the FCC’s database 24 hours before it makes the QRZ database (longer on a weekend).
3. Same applies for a new vanity call – in the FCC’s database, but not yet on QRZ.

I don’t know all the facts. Only you do. Was the alleged pirate’s callsign legitimate-sounding, or was it a call that simply could not have been issued by the FCC? Did the alleged pirate ID at all? If he didn’t ID at all, it doesn’t necessarily make him a pirate, just a bad operator.

How do I even know that your account of what happened actually did take place? You could have made the whole thing up just to draw attention to yourself. If that’s so, then I am the victim of a troll. You appeared to be up in arms over this alleged incident enough to send the ham that was in the database an e-mail about it; and up in arms enough to relate it here on QRZ. If you feel that dropping the matter is best, then why did you send the “legitimate ham” an e-mail about it? Why did you burden us here on QRZ about it if you want to forget about. If you want to forget about the incident, and don’t want to aggravate a fellow club member, then don’t go publicizing it on the Internet for all the world to see. That will certainly aggravate your fellow club member.

There are so many “if’s” to this story. You would hate to have me on a jury? I’d hate to have you on a jury. You already have me charged, convicted, sentenced and executed. You’re the one assuming, not me.

Last point—How do I know that you are a real ham. You could be a pirate. You don’t use a callsign when posting to QRZ. Using the handle “BeenThere” is no different than the now defunct “Anonymous Coward”. From now on, I’m going to make it a practice not to respond to any more “Anonymous Coward” posts.

[k9csm]

I am in full agreement with WA2UPQ but would like to add:
1)At the option of any DX, a split operation gets "justified" where 30 kc. of the low end of 20 Meters is NO LONGER #available for general use. #Where ongoing contacts are covered by DX callers that fail to listen on their intended transmit freq. FIRST---or they simply don't care when DX is involved. Mob rule #takes over.
2)Does "ragchewing" mean Lock to Talk? #Does it mean the use of the much more efficient VOX to enable more to be involved & to enable more timely insertion of comments by those involved? #Which reminds me: Why is it when people call in for any reason(including this new "Signal Report")
and they hear the group is using VOX, they don't? #Why? Most all tranceivers are so equipped. #Then why?
3)When a group is using VOX it seems that there is much more input on the subject & becomes more interesting. It also
seems that it promotes more unidentified comments. #Some of those are very good, get recognized as such & YET that guy
refuses to identify. #Why won't he? #He doesn't want to get #involved, #or #more likely hes UNLICENSED! What if anything is being done about unlicensed operators? #When I first was #exposed to Ham Radio, just after WWII we all thought that every transmission was being officially monitored! #Of course that was not the case,and was not possible, even then, # but what is today's concensus? #Does
officialdom care? #Is it simply too expensive to locate & prosecute Bootleggers? #Ask one, he'll tell you.
Thanks for reading.
Ben Piller, K9CSM

[BeenThere]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
KF4BOT -

Sir - Please take a pill. Your comments are rediculous and a personal attack because I disagreed and logically pointed out why your assumptions were wrong.

Also, stating that this incident may not have even occurred is just plain lunacy on your part. You are the troll for even taking that angle of attack - shame on you.

FYI - I did positively verify that the one station was indeed a pirate and he very clearly stated his fake callsign. If you really must know, other hams later on mentioned that they also heard this imposter on the same repeater system. But, I guess that you'll deny this too - because you're angry.

If I decide to report an infraction, then I'll report it. HOWEVER, can you imagine how overloaded Riley's mailbox would be if every single infraction were to be reported? Especially those made by pirates, out-of-band CBer's, etc.. after the fact.

[KF4BOT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BeenThere @ April 24 2002,16:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
KF4BOT -

Sir - Please take a pill. #Your comments are rediculous and a personal attack because I disagreed and logically pointed out why your assumptions were wrong. #

Also, stating that this incident may not have even occurred is just plain lunacy on your part. #You are the troll for even taking that angle of attack - shame on you.

FYI - I did positively verify that the one station was indeed a pirate and he very clearly stated his fake callsign. #If you really must know, other hams later on mentioned that they also heard this imposter on the same repeater system. #But, I guess that you'll deny this too - because you're angry.

If I decide to report an infraction, then I'll report it. #HOWEVER, can you imagine how overloaded Riley's mailbox would be if every single infraction were to be reported? Especially those made by pirates, out-of-band CBer's, etc.. after the fact.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You are the one that launched an unprovoked personal attack against me. For the life of me, I still can't figure out what in the world I said that could have ticked you off to attack me the way you did. The way I figure it, you're just a mal-adjusted person with an attitude problem. Only people who are insecure about themselves need to tear others down for no reason. You are tactless and caustic. You do not have the ability to disagree with someone in a civil manner. As for your radio problem with an alleged pirate, do what you want. Your problems are none of my concern. This is my last communication with you. An anonymous coward troll is not worth my waste of time. You don't even have the courage to make your identity known.

[N8PCA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wg7x @ April 20 2002,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1NKM @ April 19 2002,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">! That isn't fair. I just upgraded to Extra in November 2001. (I was a Tech Plus since Sept of 1992.) Wouldn't you know it... MURPHY'S LAW kicks in at FULL FORCE... that very first weekend that I want to try out my new privileges, ALL BANDS (on my rig), from 80-10 are TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY JAMMED FULL from top-to-bottom, by "CQ CONTEST! CQ CONTEST!" I was furious, and shut off the rig in disgust[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Congrats on the upgrade OM!

But, and I find this very interesting, why did you get angry and turn off the rig?

Was it because things were not going your way?
If so, that's more than a little immature don't you think?

Long ago, I decided to make the best of this situation and use the contestors to MY advantage!

How? you ask..

Well I'll tell you. Take your example. New rig/ticket, contest weekend: Oh my! However will I cope?!?

Well, what better way to test your new ticket and rig? Jump in with both feet and make a few Q's. You will know immediately whether people can hear you or not, and may work a new state/dxcc country in the process!

I have used the various contests like that for years, and in the process I have had a lot of fun. Sure I could turn off my rig in disgust also, but what would that prove, except that I had very little tolerance for things that I could not change?

Make the best of the situation, for crying out loud! What are we going to do when the sunspot cycle causes the upper three HF bands to close down? Are we going to protest here on the internet?

Of course not! We will instead investigate other bands or modes in hopes of finding something that will keep our interest until Mr. Sol gets freckles again!

So, try to keep your temper in check and instead of getting angry (which is bad for you anyways!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, at least TRY to have a little fun. Make the best of what might be a bad situation. Contests are not going away, neither are nets.

Who knows? You might just find that you enjoy one of these anger inducing activities!

Could happen!

73 Gary, WG7X

PS: Disclaimer: I have participated in many contests since I got my ticket, but not because I enjoyed contesting per se: rather I used the contest to find new countries and states, etcetera. In other words, I have taken my own advice. In the process I have had lots of fun, worked all fifty states on almost all bands and over 250 countries. Think of all that I would have missed if I had turned off the rig in disgust![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I must agree with N1NKM. if you want to play cq contest.. thats great. But it is truly unfair to others who want NOTHING to do with contesting. This man wants to simply get on the air and chew the fat with others. I sincerly doubt that he is alone. Perhaps the "contesters" should be limited to a smaller portion of any band when contest d