Loss of Amatuer Operators: lack of interest?

[kd5mpm]

I just did a little 'research' on the numbers of EXPIRED Calls for April, 2002 and FORFEIT Calls for April, 2002 (expired one year, no renewal.)

Area 1- 120 expired, 71 Forfeit
Area 2- 174 expired, 92 Forfeit
Area 3- 148 expired, 63 Forfeit
Area 4- 519 expired,299 Forfeit
Area 5- 273 expired,143 Forfeit
Area 6- 360 expired,326 Forfeit
Area 7- 256 expired, 158 Forfeit
Area 8- 181 expired, 114 Forfeit
Area 9- 146 expired, 111 Forfeit
Area 0- 187 expired, 115 Forfeit

This is not my expertise, nor do I know if SK's are counted in the 'expired' although they (SK's) MAY be counted in 'Forfeit.' However, looking at these astonishing numbers, it appears that, having once gone through all the effort of obtaining a Ham License, a great number of people lose interest to the point of letting it expire. I shant pull up data on Age Groups or Class of Licenses, however a brief scan through the lists show the majority are 'probably' Technicians.

Could the treatment received by techs from repeator 'cliques' be a dissapointment, and they just dropped the hobby?

What COULD be the reason that we are LOSING SO MANY HAMS?

Does it do any good to fret & worry about recruitment of NEW hams into the ranks when the satistics show that the interest is not there, enough to last 10 years?

Is there a policital agenda by the ARRL to hold their power base, and attempt to SCANDALISE any attempt at setting up a alternate Amatuer Radio Association, as has been directed toward K1MAN, and his delightful 20 metre broadcasts?

I wonder whether the FORFEIT and EXPIRED licenses exceeds the NEW LICENSES monthly?

A little food for thought.

And of course, we are faced with the Ravenious Governmental Feeding Frenzy to gobble up RF frequencies for resale, and the era of Digitalised Transmission.

In a Digital Society, there will be NO Amatuer Radio Service.

Scarey, isn't it.

[wg7x]

"However, looking at these astonishing numbers, it appears that, having once gone through all the effort of obtaining a Ham License, a great number of people lose interest to the point of letting it expire. I shant pull up data on Age Groups or Class of Licenses, however a brief scan through the lists show the majority are 'probably' Technicians."

No doubt, and for the simple reason that they did NOT expend a great amount of effort to get the license. Frankly, the technician license is a give-away. Beacuse of that, and the minimal effort required to obtain it, there is no incentive to keep it.

It's that simple. After all, if it expires, you can pay the exam fee, take the simple exam, and be issued another throw-away call sign.

If there was a little more effort involved, then possibly they would renew more often. Ham radio at the technician class is just one small step above FRS. Quite frankly. with cell phones, FRS and MURS available no wonder these people see no value to a tech ticket.

The non renewals are probably those people who got a ticket because they wanted a cheaper alternative to a cell phone, or their spouse was licensed and they wanted to be able to call hubby on the road and tell him to get some milk/bread.

Sounds harsh, I know, but that's the truth. Anyone with a scanner can verify that.

73 Gary WG7X

[GJ7JHF]

I don't believe the digital era is anything to fear. I'm confident the Amateur community will embrace new digital modes and keep up. Any commercial modes such as broadband mobile internet will be examined and moulded to fit our needs, I'm sure.

As for losing spectrum, a lot of bands are internationally allocated and I don't believe the ITU will collectively be prepared to take them from us.

I remain optimistic. Yes, amateur radio is a minority hobby, but there will always be that minority who still appreciate the magic of radio. Enough of us to keep it going. Especially when WRC 2003 drops the code requirement!

[kb9num]

Interesting theories about why Techs may not renew. One of the things about our hobby is that many seasoned hams feel the need to make techs feel unwelcome. I tire of the appliance user comments directed at our new hams. I saw a t-shirt at the last ham fest I attended saying something to the effect that without cw it is just cb. That will go far to unify the hobby.

The truth of the matter is many of our clubs, activities, and public services are held together by techs. And even more important that they are the future of the hobby. Perhaps if they were treated with respect, and offered the chance to enjoy this fine hobby of ours at whatever level they choose, then they would stick around.

When the code requirements were relaxed one ham I talk with frequently was concerned because he felt he would be loosing people to talk to. His point was that the rules should require CW so people trained in that mode would be available to him. I suggested a better route would be to elmer people in code and build the group in a positive manner. The same applies to continuing interest in amateur radio. If we harass and complain about techs then they will not be sticking around. If we respectfully help them find their place in the hobby, even if it is not the same interest we have, they will stay. Lets be elmers instead of critics.

[w8ob]

this problem has been building for years. The old saying you can
lead a horse to water, but you can't make em drink is very true.
you guys blame the old timers for not making the new guys welcome,
lets get off that pity pot and look at a few things.
1. Yes the bulk of these licensee's were more than likely techs, for what
ever reason they lost interest in the hobby and moved on. ham radio]
is not for everyone, especially now that the exam req's are more
relaxed.
2. Some state the new techs are made to feel to be unwelcome, well if
you listen to some of the local repeaters here, thats all you hear on
them. The reason the seasoned ham doesn,t get more involved in the
new guys and this is the only reason is my listening effort on 2m fm
went like this following comments were heard.
"well I am at the home 20 catch you later down the ole coax"
" 10-4 and roger that"
A whole lot of transmissions from known hams without including ID's
When a old timer came on freq and tried nicely to steer these dude's
in the proper direction he was more or less told to piss off they had a
license and could communicate however they wanted to, that the FCC
reqs didn't say anything about using CB lingo on the machine. So don't
use that for a excuse. I myself if I want to hear that sort of thing will
go buy a CB rig.
I myself am always happy to help out a new guy, but I won't put up with
any of the new generation attitudes.

Like someone else stated here when you had to work a bit harder at
getting a license the new hams were a little more serious about the
hobby and tended to stick with it, Face it back in the 70's when fm
repeaters were coming about you didn't hear things like: Hon pick
up a gallon of milk ok? The new tests need much more questions on
proper operating procedures.

[AG1N]

I'm VERY new to ham radio - been licensed only since August of last year. I have personally "forfeited" 2 call signs - KG4OWV and AG4PH - in my quest to upgrade to Extra and a vanity call sign. How many of the listed "forfeitures" are due to upgrades? Unless the "real" reason for the expiration or forteiture can be nailed down on each one of these data points, it's all mere conjecture.

I don't believe it is due to the "dumbing down" of the hobby, or the theory that they didn't have to put in any effort so they've lost interest. I personally had to "work" at the code requirement and after passing it, I don't use it at all. I'm into PSK31 right now - it's a hoot! - and I believe the wave of the future is digital - JMHO. My PC software and RigBlaster enable me to communicate via CW, so I have no need for a key or paddle, and probably never will. Should CW be eliminated as an element? I can't say for sure, but it hasn't appeared to be effective in keeping out the "riff raff" according to many of the posts I've seen here and on eham.net, if that's the REAL reason for its existence. Based on my experience so far, the CW requirement was an artificial obstacle placed in my path as a "right of passage" to get to the "useful" class(es) of ticket. Did it make me a better operator? Not by any stretch of the imagination! Did it give me a better understanding of RF theory and practice - nope!

Could some/many of those expirations and forfeitures have been due to an inability to learn CW? Could they have lost interest because they got bored with the 2m gig and couldn't advance to the HF bands because they couldn't find an Elmer? Don't know and won't know unless each one of them is asked for the reason, and I doubt that the FCC cares enough to ask.

That's my $.02 worth. 73 to all from a "rank amateur"

Dennis - AG1N

[Phineas]

Work

That is the most avoided word in modern culture. Being a tech/nocode and getting tired of old timers on repeaters is that techs own fault. Example, talk to hams about all of the other activities on UHF VHF

6 meters SSB
6 meters FM
2 meters SSB
2 meters simplex
Setting up your own Ilink station
Building your own Helix antenna for Satelite work
Learning 5wpm
Using more than 1 Frequency on HF
etc...

All too much work for most people. Repeaters are so easy. Dont let there be a PL tone to program on one of these new radios!!!....too much work.

See the pattern here.

Hobbies can be alot of work that a person has to be willing to take the time to develop. As in life, even engineers and doctors are not all into study and hard work. Everyone wants everything now, and if most people nowadays dont have the money to go buy it, they will never have it. That is what makes a TRUE HAM a different breed from the average.

Computers are another good example. Way back when you had to know how to type ATDT to dial a modem, how many people were into computers? Now you dont even have to know how to type setup.exe to get the operating system on you computer. Now look at how many people are into computers? Almost not like a hobby anymore.

As time goes, only the diehards will stick with it. The rest will always go to something easier as a past time like eating , sex, and Beer.

Phineas
KC0LSC

[K2WH]

"ON MY SOAPBOX"

I'm getting really tired of all these "Is ham radio dead" postings. #Ham radio is not dead nor is it dying. #The actual census of licensed American ham radio operators has steadily gone up not down as some would have you believe.

In addition, the cheap shot at ARRL and the apparent support of the mentally challenged K1MAN and his illegal transmissions (as per FCC rulings), is certainly not warranted and quite a stretch trying to link the so called declining licensing issue to some back door juggling by ARRL. #Must be a K1MAN sympathizer.

These "Chicken Little" postings serve no purpose. #As a matter of fact, I am willing to bet, that new hams read such messages and decide not to upgrade simply because of the msg!

"OFF MY SOAPBOX"

However, one of the more chilling things I have noticed, is the list of "SK's" in the monthly QST magazine. #Are that many hams actually dying each month? #What a turn over. #That's one DX list I don't want to appear on.

K2WH

[W2TXB]

The loss of licensed radio amateurs is likely a combination of much of what has already been offered in previous posts. I know of a bunch of hams in my area who have died during th past year or so. The average age of hams is said to be relatively high, and unless a bunch of new hams comes along and exceeds the number of those who die, then the average age will increase even more. I am not that old (almost 50), but a number of the older hams who helped me along when I was back in my late teens and early twenties are now long since gone (mostly died).

I, too, have seen and heard the derogatory comments about the "no-code" Technician licensees; some people really need to (learn to) adapt to a change that really has done no more harm than some of the stuff that hams have done for years anyway.

As a parallel example, I have seen this trend in the Nursing profession lately. For many years, there have been a few nurses at just about every facility (hospital, nursing home, etc.) who actually appear to take great pride in the adage that, "nurses eat their young." These few have become known in some circles as "The Satanic Nurses" (with apology to S. Rushdie); they may be very skilled and capable, but their interaction with their peers is less than stellar. Now, along comes a prospective new nurse (student), who realizes that dealing with these types (in addition to dealing with an already stressful job) is not worthwhile at any salary. The new prospective nurse then finds a job doing something else, although he/she may well have become an excellent nurse. The result is that there is a very severe shortage of nurses. Are we (as a group) doing the same to prospective new hams?

If we perceive ourselves to be such an elite group that we can afford to turn away newcomers (rather than help to properly educate them), then Amateur Radio will receive just what it asked for.

[KE4MOB]

You have just discovered the tip of the iceberg. #We are standing on the edge of the proverbial cliff--we are having to deal with the after effects of the ham radio explosion of 1990-1995. #I have always suspected that a large number of people got into ham radio back then due to license restructuring, wasn't really interested in the first place, and will now let their licenses expire. #The 650,000+ ham census is an abberation and is not related to the health of ham radio at all.

You know, I used to think the 1-year Novice license was a joke...now we are seeing why it wasn't. #Maybe the Technician license should be a one or two year license. #

Steve, KE4MOB

[n0qegnebr]

This may not be worth alot but I guess my two cents wouldnt be worth anything if I didnt spend it, so here goes.

Here in good ole Lincoln Ne, you will find alot of no code techs my self included. The reason I am still a no code tech is by choice, I got into the bobby to do what I like to do. Experiment with two way radio. I wanted to build a repeater and I have done so, many as a matter of fact.

I like to assist with technical issues. I maintain a wealth of repeaters for several local clubs in addition to my own. I dont frown upon HF or any of its usage modes however, I dont feel the need to work HF if my interests are geared towards meeting new people "face to face".

Yes the ham fests are available and you can talk to someone on a regular basis then meet once a year for a face to face but to me, thats like haveing an aunt in Texas that I see every year at christmas.

Even here in the midwest no codes are not given the respect they deserve. For those who choose not to stay in the hobby, this is unfortunate.

My overall point is that alot of us in our hobby have set aside one of the most important reasons for amateur radio. "to experiment with two way radio". The guy who just got his no code ticket that you let slip away because they had no interest in HF may just have been the guy who might have invented the perfect audio mixer and or digitizer to make that SSB audio sound a bit better. Now instead of that equipment coming from the amateur community, its marketed to the commercial community and amateur radio may never have a chance to use it.

Just my two cents!

Ed Holloway NØQEG "NO CODE"

[MAB2003]

we need to get more people interested in ham radio

kg6ktz

[w6th]

Quite amazed as to the thoughts of many hams today. Back years before WW2 there were the amount of 50,000 ham operators and we thought that was a very large amount. #We hams were not quitters and only left ham radio when we could no longer breathe. Maybe there can be something done to hold onto the new ham operators. #I don't believe it is the code or the theory or the attitude that hams leave, but do believe it is because come easy go easy. When spoken of old timers, I hope many of you Radio Amateur Operators don't see us old old timers related to the "new" old timers of the years since 1952 and to date. We back before the WW2 were Elmers to all, but somehow things have rapidly changed in the ham radio since 1948. Let us go back to the year of 1914 and start anew. May God bless America.

[n0qegnebr]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MAB2003 @ April 18 2002,09:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">we need to get more people interested in ham radio

kg6ktz[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Michael:

Welcome to the hobby! Good luck on your upgrade. As a new guy in the hobby, what do you see in your community of hams that most interest's you? and do you see anything that you would work on in the future to keep the hobby interesting to future hams.

Ed Holloway NØQEG

[K1ZC]

No code techs are not second class citizens; I prefer to think of them as people that have just been too busy to learn Morse code. Make them feel welcome and most, not all but most, of them will get around to it some day.

The convergence of computers and radios is the best thing that has happened for a long time. In the past year, there has been an explosion of interest in 802.11 type wireless networking by some young, well educated, technically saavy people. Aren't these the kind of high quality people that we want to attract? Most of their questions are pretty simple for your typical "Elmer"; they worry about how to set-up an antenna for example. Most of the good responses to questions posted on sites for the technically sophisticated come from hams.

If we want these folks in the hobby, we need to do some outreach, these are not the types likely to stop by at your local field day. These folks grew up in an era where cyberspace made all the noise and ham radio did not - many don't even know what ham radio is. If we are worried about quantity and quality, we need to get off our collective backsides and recruit these folks! Who knows, we might even get some new digital modes out of the deal.

[na7us]

Ham Radio has been dying since I was began as a Ham in the late 60's. Its demise has
been obvious. No one is on the frequencies, there is no ARES volunteers, no classes teaching
Ham Radio, the numbers show it!

Get real! The hobby is not dead nor will it die in the near future though there is validity that many
get the Tech license ,hardly use it and let it go. I am sad for them but if they choose not to
upgrade or explore the non-repeater world of VHF, so be it.

As for the ARRL.....find something better and I may just support it but K1MAN is not what I consider,
an alternative. The ARRL is not perfect but its a thousand times better than any alternative I have seen
over the past 35 years.

[W9JOL]

I am a recently licensed Tech, and I guess that I am fortunate that everyone I've run into on 2m have been great contacts. I've had lengthy chats with "OT's" and newbies alike. I do think the key is that I have, and try to show, the utmost respect for the accomplishments of others, especially those who have made General and Extra. I have found that I have never been treated with disrespect on the radio, but in fact have been encouraged by others to succeed. I have noticed, though, some of the bad attitudes via the internet!

[N2RJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GJ7JHF @ April 17 2002)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't believe the digital era is anything to fear. I'm confident the Amateur community will embrace new digital modes and keep up. Any commercial modes such as broadband mobile internet will be examined and moulded to fit our needs, I'm sure.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The digital era isn't anything to "fear". #It is something to EMBRACE. #And that's exactly why people are losing interest in the hobby. #Imagine, it's the year 2002 and we're still sending packet at a measly 9600 Baud. #Meanwhile, the part 15 folks are happily sending data at megabit speeds. #What's keeping us back?

The only way the hobby is going to survive is if we keep rapidly advancing with technology, which we're not doing. #For example: PSK31 may be nice and fun, but it's not my idea of great new digital technology. #What am I going to do with PSK31? #PSK31 is not good for any serious form of communication. It's good for DX'ing and generally having a good time but it's not for serious use. This is what I mean. #I would rather be doing something like digital video over ham radio. #I know it can be done. #It's just that no one is doing it. #Everyone is just contented to talk on VHF FM and yell "CQ DX" on SSB which, frankly, is quite boring.

The only reason I remain a ham now is for two reasons. #One is that I am hoping that we can start experimenting with some new technology like high speed data transmission. #Two is that it gives me an excuse to get out and meet people when I am volunteering for public service events.

The idea that we are "technical innovators" and "pioneers in communication" no longer holds true for us, I am afraid. #Technical innovation and invention is now a business, and is now done by R&D departments of huge companies, not basement experimenters.

[n0ov]

OK.

Does this mean there will me more bargans at hamfests?

[w6tur]

I wonder if the forfeit figures include call signs surrendered in order to obtain a vanity call sign? Just a thought...........

73, Ron W6TUR

[mackinac]

The original posting in this thread was really not done very well. #The poster listed a bunch of numbers about expired and forfeited callsigns, then asked why we are loosing so many hams. #Yet there is no explanation as to why the numbers given might be considered large. #It is not even clear what these numbers mean in relation to the total number of the ham population.

A few points:

The number forfeited is smaller than the number expired. #This might be an indication that a lot of hams renew after their expiration date. #We'd have to check the numbers from the year before.

As others have noted, some of these forfeited callsigns may be due to vanity calls or just changing on an upgrade. #We don't have that information, so we don't know what these numbers mean for the total population.

Certainly some people will try ham radio and decide it is not for them, or they might like it but just have other things they'd rather do with their time. #We are told that these are "astonishing numbers", but there is no discussion of what reasonable numbers would be.

And what about the SKs? #One poster is concerned about the number of SKs listed in QST each month. #In any random collection of people the size of the US ham population you would expect several hundred people to die each month. #Is the number of SK hams much different?

[kd5jmy]

I agree with W2TXB's assessment. #I have had my no-code tech license for a bit over a year and I am one of those who got it because my daughters had. #Nothing wrong with that motivation. #Now my wife is also a tech. #As a family we have a great deal of fun on the air and all of us will eventually upgrade. # I have felt the "coldness" of experienced hams when I have attempted to join a conversation on the air to the point where we have withdrawn from most of the repeaters in our area. #Same with some of the clubs we looked at joining, remarks about *#^%$@ no code CB'rs makes a lasting impression on teenage daughters I can tell you. #I think the concern about the number of next generation hams should be taken seriously. #At the same time I can't must agree that I have also heard plenty of #(**&@^ no code hams being very impolite also, and doing some very unprofessional things on the air. #Just like my nursing license, I worked hard for this ham ticket and I don't appreciate those who spit on it, nor those who beat others over the head with it. #I hope middle ground can be found.

[kg4kkn]

With so many people down on the lowly technician licensee, has anyone ever thought about what would happen if 80, 90, heck, even 20% of the techs upgraded?

You want to complain about all the no-code techs? How would you like to have all of us fully licensed for your HF bands? How crowded is it now? How crowded do WANT it?

What if techs stay techs? It means they're going to stay on 2m or 70cm, and they won't be ruining your 40m QSOs.

[N5LRZ]

I echo the thoughts of WG7X above. I have the theory that if you were to look up the drop in licenses along the lines of license class you would find the following.

The higher the license the less likely the holder will deliberately let it lapse. Even though he or she may not be very active and on the air they will renew religiously that which took so much work to achieve.

R. Arceneaux
N5LRZ

[kb5tuu]

Here ia another view point:

I am a no code tech and will always stay one, why because I have listened to hf and it does sound like a bunch of cber's. The hams that look down on us no code techs are the root of all evil! I look at it this if they can bash me i can bash them!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K1ZC]

You have to be a little bit careful when looking at the raw statistics. Others are correct when they say that some renew after the expiration date and higher license classes are more likely to renew. For example, Extras are 5% of the expirations but 10% of the grace period renewals.

Pop on over to AH0A.ORG and look at the data there. It shows monthly total by license class starting in June 1997. Overall, the number of licenses has grown 0.5% in five years; that is not much of a change. The only big swings are a decline Novices offset by an increase in Generals and a decline in Advanced offset by new Extras. The Tech/Tech+ ranks are almost the same.

The sky is not falling, at least not yet.

[W2DUG]

Yes, raw data can be misleading. #Just looking at my area, Area 2 (NY, NJ), the total number of expired and forfeited licenses represents about 1 in 182 of the total number of licensees, according to the current census data. #I do not find this surprising at all...it will be a long time before I even meet 182 hams, let alone have one of them decide not to pursue it. #A lot can happen during the ten-year term of a license...marriage, kids, illness, taking on other hobbies, etc. #All of these can replace the radio hobby with no other reason than, "just because". #This is no reason to be alarmed.

Besides, part of the reason for having a tiered license plan is to encourage "trying it out" in a controlled way before operating all over the amateur spectrum. #Sometimes trying it out results in a "no, thanks" response. #Do you get married without dating for a while first, and doesn't dating often lead to break-ups? #Possibly a poor analogy, but the point is that humans tend to try things out before total commitment, especially when significant energy is required to commit. #Those that decide to commit probably get more out of it, too. #And those that don't commit...no harm done.

- Doug

Not siding w/ the techno world here but maybe someone that deals w/ radio will read thiis and heed the advice... we could probably come out with radios that not ony have audio but picture as well http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif anybody?

[aa3rt]

I've had this discussion (about the seeming dwindling number of amateurs) with the president of my local radio club. Remember that the codeless tech license started in 1991. He told me that it's going to be interesting over the next few years to see how many of these techs renew their licenses. Many have only made an investment of a H/T and maybe a mobile antenna.

We have an informal "club" where I work-currently 9 licensed hams. Most are no-code techs and have fallen into that "2-meter valley". After the initial fascination wears off they simply stop being active. After all, how much can you do with a 5 watt H/T? These folks are all
technically inclined and most studied for their licenses on their own. My own personal opinion-they've never seen what else is available to them as far as operating modes, DX, contesting, ATV, RTTY, etc. Basically, they've gotten bored and have moved on other things-like computers and the internet.

I recently taught a technician class for the local (Charles County (MD) Amateur Radio Club) club. One of my first priorities was to arrange for the students to visit a well laid out ham shack (Thanks, N3YWZ!!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and observe various modes, operation in different bands, etc. so that
they could see for themselves what possibilities there are in amateur radio besides inane chatter on the local repeater.

I believe a lot of folks who became codeless techs, were active for a couple of years, and put their radios away when cell phones started flooding the market.

A couple of asides-I agree with W8OB-there's a local repeater that I disparagingly refer to as the "Diaper Net"-
"Well Honey-you pick up the kids and I'll go to Col. Sanders for some fried chicken." That's the kind of thing the cell phone was devised for.

K2WH mentioned the number of SK's. I see that in my other hobby-model railroading. One of the railroad bulletin boards that I visit frequently had a post stating that someone saw so much model railroad equipment listed on Ebay as "being picked up at an estate sale" he wondered if everyone in the hobby was dying off.

(BTW-my class started out with 7 people-3 stuck it out to the end and got their licenses. All three were men-one in his 50's, one in his 40's and one in his 30's. Two young people dropped the class when it started interfering with school-or maybe girls, I'm not sure.)

Now, to try to tie these thoughts together. Those of us who are active need to encourage others to get active-let them see what they can do besides kerchunk 5 area repeaters from a local hilltop. Help out with a morse-code or General class. Try to find a way to get some younger folks involved-wish I had an answer for that one!
The demographics of amateur radio (and model railroading for that matter) is the we ARE getting older.
Why sit through an eight-week class, take a test only to be able to use a part of the amateur spectrum? Any kid with a computer can plug into the internet and surf the world with almost no limitations on where they go. Which sounds more appealing to a teen-ager?

[N2RJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (.KD7QQO. @ April 18 2002,16:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not siding w/ the techno world here but maybe someone that deals w/ radio will read thiis and heed the advice... we could probably come out with radios that not ony have audio but picture as well http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif anybody?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We have that already. It's called Amateur Television.

[N8YV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5mpm @ April 11 2002,18:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is there a policital agenda by the ARRL to hold their power base, and attempt to SCANDALISE any attempt at setting up a alternate Amatuer Radio Association, as has been directed toward K1MAN, and his delightful 20 metre broadcasts?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif "Delightful"http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Such a questionable one-way broadcast, complete with adverts and self-promoting propaganda, is the furthest thing from "delightful" I can imagine on the amateur bands...er, make that second-furthest--I almost forgot about a typical evening's fare on 75 meters!

[kg6amw]

Your analysis is too light. #Probably tells me you took a short cut to make a point that may not be valid. #Time to go back and complete the research.

[w8tvi]

To Phineas (and others):

You must not forget that there is allot of us who don't have time for ham radio like we use to with our jobs taking up ALOT of our time. Allot of us who aren't retired, can’t devote 8 hours a-day to ham radio like you can. A lot of us no-codes started out as teens and then went into the workplace. Why would you want to come home after a long day at work dealing with the jerks that you have to when you work at a retail operation (or fast-food joint) and get on the radio to talk to (or listen to) some crusty old guy complain about his aches and pains all night? Not me! Most of us don’t have the spare money to buy that shiny new $800 Yaesu FT-100D like you guys can. MOST of us are stuck with the HT whether we like it or not. My dad is an Extra and a VE, but he only has a 2m/440 HT and a 2m Mobile. Me I work at Sam’s Club. I deal with jerks all day. I’m constantly having to talk to people all day and the last thing I want to do is get on the radio and talk some more. As I’m typing this my throat is sore from having to breath the cigarette smoke that kept blowing in the doors from the people standing just out side them smoking away.

I'm Done now.
Noel W8TVI

[N0FPE]

Ok I will drop my 2 cents worth in here too.

I started Ham radio as a novice, taking my test at an FCC testing station. At the same session I passed the General written test. I could just never get passed the 5 wpm code so I became a Tech+. I was happy with this for years, but when the rules changed and I had the chance to upgrade to a General without doing anymore than filling out the paper work I went for it.
I am now an active HF operator and use HF daily. I am not retired, a long way from it, but I still find a few minutes a day to make a contact or 2 on HF. I also still use VHF/UHF mainly mobile, I own 3 repeaters of my own and manage a 4th for a non resident owner. The XYL says she is a radio widow sometimes!! HA!
With all this said here is my slant on this issue of no-code/tech and the loss of people in the service...

I dont care what kind of license class you have. If you passed the test then you are good as gold to me.
BUT the first time I hear someone ask how to install a PL-259 on coax, or someone ask what frequency 80meters is, or the really bad one

Hows my signal sound? <2 meters thru a repeater>
You are full scale here!!
I chaff real bad at questions on things that are SUPPOSED to be learned to pass the tests.

Oh I avoid most club as they end up political and 3-4 people do all the work while all the others bitch. If i want to do all the work i will do it for myself and not for the complainers.

Dan/NØFPE

[km5yl]

To all you *no-code* techs out there that haven't been treated kindly, may I offer my deepest apologies for the stupid behavior of my *fellow* hams. Seems to me, that no-coders have been around for quite some time, even before the last license restructuring. They are the ones who are involved in building/maintaining the repeaters that so many of us love to use, you'll find them active and ready to help in the middle of disasters, they are quite abundent at public service events and many other things. We have a link system here that covers the northern part of Louisiana from Mississippi to Texas. I spend many hours on the road and I am on 2 mtrs. for several hours a day. We all have a blast, picking at each other, b*sing and trading information on various topics about ham radio. I haven't seen where the *newbies* were unwelcome, at least not to where I could hear it. I am an OT Extra, although I didn't have to walk up hill both ways in the snow and I DO try to set an example for those who are new to the hobby. As to time?
Well, I work full-time and have a family. I am also very much involved in ham radio~president of our local club, ARRL Affiliated Club Coordinator for the state, Section Traffic Manager, contester, dx'er, and public service. I worked very hard to get where I am how and I feel that I have EARNED the respect of my fellow hams. This is a hobby and you get out of it what you put into it. For those of you who haven't been able to find a club that is *accepting*, keep looking, or better yet, form your own! For you OTimers, treat those *newbies* with kindness and respect, because they are the future of amateur radio, whether you like it or not. When you hear things on the radio that are not *acceptable* (and I use this term with care), teach by setting an example, not criticizing, offer to do a talk at the local club on on-air etiquette and good operating skills or ask if they have any questions about operating. I have done my utmost best to welcome the new hams in our local area and will continue to do so regardless of their licensure. By doig that, they just might see that there is something to this hobby besides the radio, new friends and hopefully an abundence of people who are willing to help them to achieve whatever they choose to do, whether it be building things, upgrading of finding a whole new set of friends. "Nuff said, got a net to go to.

[K7BLR]

As a NEWBIE Tech licensee I have noticed several things here in the Phoenix area. #A large amount of Hams on 2m and the 440 seem to be a much older group, even beyond my ripe "old" age of 52. #A lot of the conversations seem to be based on trivial information exchanges; ie: daily activities, vacations etc. #(there are even local nightly nets that only talk about what they have done for that day).That is fine for them, but if the hobby is trying to increase "membership" then maybe there should be more that is perceived. #(I know there is more, but others who listen have commented about these things).

Friends that I have tried to get interested in the hobby say..... "why do I need Ham radio, I have the internet to chat and my cell phone with thousands of free minutes". #This is a hard item to dispute.

NOW BEFORE I have stones thrown at me.... I don't profess to have answers or ways to fix this perception, however I think it contributes to the lack of hobby interest. #

One earlier post states that Technicians are just barely a step above FRS, and says the test is almost meaningless. #I will be one to say that as a person with no radio or electronic background or knowledge, I did have to study, and I did learn a lot of things that I would never have imagined. #These things were important to getting the TECH license in my opinion. #The kind of attitude professed by the earlier writer only helps to add to the perception that TECH's are low on the totem pole. #We all have to start somewhere, and Technician is a START !!!!

While I #am by no means able to offer a fix, I think there is some need for a "let's all get along" attitude to start. #Then showing and educating those that don't know about the hobby.... to show how the hobby can be fun, educational, an emergency backup system, etc. is still the biggest goals.

Like anything there will be ups and downs. #Let's hope we are on the UPswing soon.

BUCK

[KC8MDO]

Everytime I get into reading posts on these forums there are discussions about the so called easy entry tech license. I think we should all be happy that there is an interest in the hobby and that a person takes the time to take the testing to enter. Lets remember that everyone in the electronics industry is not a ham. Where did we all start? Do I put my pants on like the next person? I know when I first entered I had a lot of enthusiasm until I saw the amount of politics involved in the local repeaters. Also don't forget the security concerns. Once you get on the air and give your call and ragchew everyone will know your business for that day and possibly the next year.

73s de kc8mdo

[K2WH]

This is an amazing discussion. #I read just about every reply to the original posting and saw the subject matter start to skew to a different subject about midway through, unitil the subject turned to no code tech bashing without any of the orginal msg left intact or referenced.

Is this a wonderful world or what!!!!!

K2WH

[K5VBW]

In response to the forfeits of ham licenses. A large part is internet an cell phones. Another large part is red necks on the band. My wife WAS interested in obtaining her license until the "ham gods" surfaced. It will be very hard for me to encourage her to become licensed now. I also have no problem with spouses chatting about their day at work or stopping by the store to pick up a few items for dinner. When the red necks chastise couples for this it only adds to the forfeits. Especially when a certain wireless company offers 2-way service with out the harassment. Red necks and the ham gods belong back on the CB bands. As Ann Landers would say MYOB!!!

Vic K5VBW

[WB9YBM]

Several of my friends and I became so disgusted with the less than savory shenannigans ocurring oin two meters, we gave up on that band, and moved to greener pastures. Since this is the primary band covered by many scanners, it is one of our initial introductions to the ham community provided to unlicensed individuals. Therefore, it's not all that surprising we've got people leaving ham radio--and not being replaced by newcommers. I've had unlicensed ham wanna-bes even ask me, "What is this crap?", after they've been exposed to two meters (and I've heard similar complaints about a few other "nests"--small segments in other bands--where these things occur, but what the heck, let's not get into finger-pointing).

[n7uo]

There are two sides to the statistic window. #Where are the new licenses, upgrades, and vanity listings? #Should be somewhat more balanced if we saw them too.

There are folks out there doing something about the "losses" such as K7TUT who seems to be pumping out young and newly licensed hams regularly. #We can all make such contributions to the hobby if we spend more time making similar efforts.

Recently, I addressed a group of educators and administrators at a local highschool. #I asked 4 questions of the audience:

"How many of you were in the Seattle area when we had our last earthquake?" #(Most of the hands came up immediately.)

"How many of you have a cell phone?" #(Again, most of the hands were raised.)

"How many of you tried to make a call to loved ones immediately after the quake?" #(Most of the hands remained up.)

"How many of you were successful in reaching that loved one via the telephone?" #(Two out of 35-40 hands remained in the air.)

I followed up my series of questions by advising those present that I spoke to my XYL while the earth was still shaking and knew that she was safe. #Most of the local amateurs were immediately able to be reassured that their families were all safe, and talked to friends around the Pacific Northwest unhampered by "modern" methods.

The quiet in the room, and the realization that Amateur Radio has a viable place both in the academic community and in their personal lives was palpable. #The silence was sobering. # Immediately, the intelligencia, charged by their profession to "know everything" were filled with questions about licensing, distances, costs, and WHEN they could attend a class for licensing. #How can they include the student body in such an endeavor. #Indeed, we may be spawning a new group of "Tech's" but we are generating an interest based on the fiber of what we are licensed for....emergency communications during catastrophic events.

When I told them about talking to fellow hams located in areas where history was being made, and learning about geography, diverse cultures, mathematics, physics, electronics, and the empirical ethics that fellow amateurs enforce in their operating mindset, the administrators and educators were exchanging glances. There was a way to put their lessons into focus. #There was a way to get their students to run to a map of the world and look at a country they had never heard of, and a way to put algebraic equations into the students mind when they saw it actually worked. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #

My 9 year old daughter knows where Turkmeninstan and Tuvalu are located on the map, but I venture that 99% of their students can't pronounce both of those names.

Getting back into the middle and high schools and into the minds of our youth is the key to swelling the ranks of the hobby again. #Most of us who are over 40 were exposed to this diverse hobby while were still in school. #And I venture that exposing students today will have a similar effect.

Frank/N7UO

[AC7SQ]

I quit two times because I could not copy 1 min of code @ 13 WPM I just did my radio experence as part of my job. Fixing two way radios/radars on ships. Conducting EMI/RFI testing then finding sulutions to the problem found durring testing. Alot of people got VERY frustrated with the code requirments especialy the 13 WPM and 20 WPM requirments. I just took my skills and love of radio elsewhere because of that high speed requirment! I have now returned and just got my Extra call sign today. I did because I can share my skills with others.

I also would like to get proficiant at code again. I like QRP from hilltops. I am glad I can increase my code skill because I want to, not because I HAVE to just to get that General of Extra ticket. As for the people that do not want to learn the code but want to enjoy radio. Please enjoy the way you want to. There are so meny new and old ways to enjoy radio.

[n3yix]

There is one thing that I do not like and that is that when I talk to an "OM" he usually refers to me (being a Technician) as not having a "REAL" license. I would like him to show me on his FCC license WHERE it says this person is a "REAL" ham. I go by what the FCC license says, not by some OLD GRUMP that in order to be able to talk on the Ham bands HAD to work harder than I did to get his license. This is the only HOBBY that I know of where you are looked down upon IF you haven't had it as hard as someone else to get to the same spot. No wonder we arn't getting more people to join our ranks. (I have passed my General written, and I am working on my code right now), But when I get my license, I won't discourage the other Technicians by calling them names, but welcome them into this wonderful hobby and try to help them in any whey that I know how.

73
(not 73's) the way I have heard some OT say, both on HF and >50Mhz. That is like saying "Best Regardsss"

n3yix

[K1ZC]

John,

I wouldn't worry about what some grumpy old men think! If your license is a funny brown color and the return address on the envelope said Gettysburg, PA then you are real enough for me. Fire up that rig and lets chat.

There are plenty of old men that are not grumpy types, most of them in fact - my local club is full of helpful guys. In my mind a "real" ham shows his true colors by donating some time to one of the emergency services, Elmers some boy scouts, helps newcomers, and otherwise tries to return a bit of what the hobby has given him. Do you do that John? If so, I could care less what your frequency privileges are, you are a "real" ham. Don't know Morse code yet but generously volunteer your time at the Red Cross? Yep, you are a real ham too.

Been licensed since 1920, can copy CW at 50 WPM, but don't do anything in the community or lift a finger to help newbies learn the hobby? Uh, you could learn thing or two from some of those "evil" no-coders. A wise man once said, it is not the operator's class that matters; it is the class of the operator.

73,
Jim

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

A wise man once said, it is not the operator's class that matters; it is the class of the operator.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

This sums it up. There are far more fine folks out there than grumps, and we do need to look at the class of the operators. If we could find a way to keep the grumps away from the fragile new hams we would have it made. Thanks for the great post.

[hartdaniel]

I wonder if the percentage rate is actually any different.

I too once thought of letting my license lapse. Not for lack of interest, but lack of equipment.

Dan
KE3WH

[jhampshire]

I am more excited about ham radio than ever before. #Just like Phineus, KC0LSC said, it gets harder as you explore new modes of operation. #When I upgraded to general I was intimidated by the new skills required by HF operation. #After I knuckled down and started learning, I really got the bug. #Now I can't wait to upgrade to extra. #This from a guy who started late (age 48). #I think some techs lose interest because the repeater scene dominates. #How about some elmers starting 2 meter SSB or CW nets? #Maybe when the solar cycle bottoms out there will be renewed interest in VHF simplex modes. # 73 friends, #KB9WCT

[DA1TNJ]

Lack of interest in ham radio is a personal issue. I have
been in ham radio for over 35 years and still enjoy
rag chewing, learning new techniques, etc.

As for the repeaters. The one's I've used, alot of them
across the US and even in Europe, they appear to be
more and more like CB. As a personal choice, I don't
use them if I don't have to.

The CW issue. When the FCC lowered the code speed
from 20 wpm for Extra class, 13 for General etc, it made
no sense. If you want the license then work on the code,
pass it and if you chose not to use CW after you obtain
your license then that's fine. Don't use excuses that
CW is outdated just to lower or eliminate the
requirements for an amateur radio license. I believe
in technology but I do not believe in reducing or
eliminating a mode simply because of technology.
Amateur radio is a hobby not a business and its
licensing requirements should not be treated as such.

In closing, I've read so many articles on ARRL, for
example, that ask questions that are so basic and
are part of the licensing requirements. Ops who
don't know how to build a simple half wave rectifier
circuit to get a 12VDC fan to work cooling the finals
on their transmitter. I see, from that and other
articles such as "What does the term "IF" mean in
a receiver", that many ops have become "appliance
operators" and do not take the time to read and learn.
Spend the few dollars for the handbook and inside you
will find the answers to most, if not all, of your questions
and by reading it you will learn something. It doesn't
take much to become a CB operator. However, it does
take some reading, studying, and testing to obtain a
ham license. Yes, even after 35 years in ham radio
I learn something new each time read the handbook.


73's,

Mike
DA1TNJ/WB8TNJ

[kb3fkj]

I agree with WB8TNJ.

Even though Im only a no code tech right now, i think that their should still be the higher morse code requirement. im very busy with school right now and dont have the time to learn it. but this summer im going after my general. who said that CW was Outdated? i have heard stories of the bands suddenly droping out and only cw working. and what if someone is stranded somewhere and only means of calling for help was touching two wires togther? meanwhile no one knows cw so no one can respond, much less copy what their saying.

As for not knowing simple things in the hand book, im only 14.
Still, reading it is interesting

Joe
KB3FKJ

[w4srn]

In my opinion, many people become interested in ham radio for many reasons, friends, spouses or whatever. The first step realizing that dream is getting your Tech ticket. Once that arrives the new ham gets on the air looking to make some contacts and like in many areas of the country, gets dead air unless they try at rush hour. It seems that many older hams only use two meters as a means to contact their buds and don't answer calls unless it's from one of their small group of ham friends. These new hams become discouraged with ham radio and give up, many without ever giving HF a chance. Why invest in an expensive new rig for HF when they can't even make contacts on the ones they already own.

If hams would pick up calls and come back to an unfamiliar call, who knows, it might just be the incentive a new ham needs to continue and explore the other aspects of our hobby. If two meters is the starting point for many new hams, maybe if we make an effort to go there a couple of times a week and answer these unfamiliar calls, each one of us can help grow this hobby doing what we got into ham radio for to start with. And if they came from a CB backround make them feel welcome so they will understand why in pays to have taken the time to upgrade and get licensed.

[k3jdp]

Ham radio is such an expensive hobby has a lot to do with it. Some of us, unfortunately, work dead end jobs for dead end money and can't afford to buy radios and equipment.

[KG4RYT]

IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE NEW HAMS ARE NOT WELCOME AND MANY LOOK DOWN THEIR NOSE AT US. I BELEIVE THIS IS ENOUGH TO MAKE MANY OF US JUST GIVE UP ON THE HOBBY.

[kb9num]

One of the people on a repeater I frequent kept telling me that one day I would upgrade and become a "real ham." He said nothing when I became General, and was upset when I "passed him up" and became Extra. I wish some of the "real hams" would consider the damage they do to the hobby with an attitude that all hams need to be just like them. We need to elmer new hams, not drive them away. And if they have interests other than ours we need to help them find others who share those interests. The odd thing is that if we are open to it we can learn things from other hams, even those with different (lesser) tickets than ours. But this is plowing old ground...

[DA1TNJ]

I do not agree that ham radio is expensive. If one
looks only at the expensive brand new rigs on the
market and that's the only avenue one can obtain
a rig then I would agree. However, there is entirely
too many older rigs that can give one just as much
enjoyment in the hobby at a fraction of the cost of
a new ICOM, KENWOOD or YAESU. Look around
and you'll find them. They won't jump out at you,
you have to spend some time looking around the
market.

As for the repeaters and the "older hams" who do not
respond to new comers. There are a few of them
and those who do that, I have no respect for.
I ignore those guys and I do not let them sway my
desire to remain in ham radio. Remember, the entire
amateur community does not consist soley of your local
repeater. Get a copy of the repeater directory and use
it.

For the new comer there is so much more to amateur
radio than your local repeater. Work on upgrading
and maybe your views of those older guys/gals who
don't talk to you on your repeater might fade away
to DX chasing, contesting, building or simply enjoying
the hobby for what it is, educational and the ability
to meet new friends around the world. Don't let
a few dead beats drum you out of a hobby. If you
do then you are allowing them to control your interest
in ham radio and what a waste that is.

73's,

Mike

[K4JSR]

I find it interesting that so many people are surprised to
find others in this hobby who are not very nice.:-0
Ham radio is just a microcosm. What you find here in
this hobby, you find everywhere else in this world.
How many of the people who bail out of this hobby
would bail out of life just because of a few jerks?
Just what monastary or convent do these people run to
in search of a totally pleasant life? #I've been a ham
since 1954 and have run into my share of jerks. No doubt there are many people out there that consider me to be a jerk. #So flaming what!?! :-P
Get on with life. #This hobby is far too large to let a few
bad people ruin it. #If you have an unpleasant experience
somewhere, avoid the place, or don't give the jerks
the pleasure of ruining your day. #
Those of you who want or need help in this hobby, ask.
Don't be bashful. We are supposed to be communicators - not mind readers.
Ham radio is the king of all hobbies. #The are so many
facets within the hobby itself; Not to mention the
infinite permutations of #external interests practiced by
hams. # Now go get on the air and have some fun!
That is one of the main ideas of the hobby!
73 to all, # #Cal #K4JSR

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This hobby is far too large to let a few
bad people ruin it. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You are so right. #In fact this community has fewer jerks per square mile than most. #We need to be on patrol to save some of the more fragile newbies from the more agressive jerks.

In fact some non-jerks put off the newbies at times, and we need to provide feedback when that happens as well. #Many well intentioned comments backfire when used on people testing new waters. #It is most damaging with people who genuinely want to do well in this hobby, and are told they suck.

There is another message we unknowingly give many new members that I alluded to (even said) in a couple of earlier posts on this topic: that it is a must to be on the low bands to be a true ham. #This message starts with the informaton the League uses for their training, and continues with discussions with well meaning and otherwise more experienced hams. #I don't see a problem with anyone who chooses to stay on VHF/UHF if they are satisfied with the contacts they get. #There are plenty of cool things they can do, and much public service they can perform using an entry level ticket. #And for many that is enough. #They need to be accepted as part of our community. #

I see that I have gotten windy again. #I am highly focused on elmering, and think that it is perhaps the main thing any of us can do to promote this fine hobby. #I don't think that it makes any difference what ticket we hold. #Far more important is the knowledge we have in our heads, and the ability to share it. #Thanks for listening.

[kc9bcy]

well, would be nice to add to those facts and figures a bit about the age groups leaving, i suppose that would have something to do with it... that's kinda the only reason i'm pissed off at the hobby, look at me, i'm only 2 or 3 months into this thing, but, i do appreciate the oldies knowledge and expertise... but i'd bet there's a certain age group in each general area that simply don't use it cause there's no one else active that they can relate to.... i'm very relatable so i can make a way to get along with anyone, however, that's just my first impressions! last chance for any more questions to a new ham!

[k4iii]

I don't think it is DYING, but time is changing. Instead of playing radio, I can be Internet Browsing, Using the Telephone, Fishing, Sporting, being "Family-man", reading, visiting, travelling, gaming, etc...

Time is changing. I no longer have to see world headlines through the "BIG 3" ABC, NBC, CBS! Although communications is advancing as a hobby and emergency channel, so are the outlets for communications and ways to spend "free-time." Take the Internet away and there's the Telephone (free long dist. with cell plans!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, Videos (Every town has a video/DVD rental store), RADIO (Satellite radio is now hitting the market with 100s of stations), Game units such as Xbox and GameBoy, etc... (Every kid has or has had one in the last decade!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, etc...

With the need to satisfy our boredom due to excessive free time due to jobs, travelling, and the requirements of parenthood, I believe the American public has made up for this by the invention of "time-consuming instruments," some of which serve no other purpose or offer no benefits, simply to use up our time! I'd rather any possible future child of mine spend his time interacting with other human beings at his own age level with possible different beliefs, cultures, & lifestyles, learning about life and themselves...

[W5HTW]

1. The ARRL released figures that in April, 2002, 1880 new hams were licensed. That kind of offsets losing 275. However, of those 1880, 1800 were licensed as Technicians.

2. Many new hams in the late nineties, and currently, are introduced to ham radio as a means to enjoy DX, various modes, traffic handling, etc. They see some older (longer term) ham who has HF gear and he encourages them to get a license. But when they get that license, they find they can't do those things. They are stuck on VHF/UHF, and the dream of ham radio is still just as far out of reach as it was when they first got interested. This isn't the "ham radio" they thought they were getting into. It is very little different from CB or cell phone, and they realize that. It is a serious disappointment, and after a few weeks of playing with the repeaters, they drop out.

3. As someone on here said, when things become too easy, they become too easy to quit. With northing or nearly nothing in the way of effort invested, it is awfully easy to switch to something else of interest.

4. Many get into ham radio to see if they like it. They are not ready to make a long-term committment to the hobby, for they have no idea what it is like. That's fair enough, and it was the purpose of the original Novice class license, a chance to (a) see if this was a hobby of interest, without making a major investment in time, money or effort, (b) to work some real DX, (yes it was quite possible on the Novice bands) and not be confined to the CB bands above 144 MHZ, and &copy; to learn some real operating procedures that would make the transition to General class much easier, provided the person chose to make that transition. Making the Technician license the entry class (and actually the "expert" license is now the entry class, rendering the word "expert" useless) meant the new ham had no contact with hams outside the world of VHF, and stood no chance of learning what it was really all about. It is undoubtedly true that many of the original Novices, who were licensed for one year, found the hobby uninteresting, too challenging, or just not what they sought to do, and they dropped out without ever upgrading. With the ten year license term of the entry level Technician class, that drop-out becomes a vital statistic, not just a casualty of disinterst.

Still, the hobby grows. The loss of licensees is offset by the new ones coming in, and the proof is in the figures. In the 50s, when I first got into the hobby, there were 125,000 hams licensed in the US, including Novices. Today there are nearly 700,000. The new "Radio Enthusiasts League" promises to DOUBLE that number of hams in five years (See the commentary on my web site, please) and the crowding is already such that the ARRL is pushing for refarming of the Novice bands to become phone bands, to handle the crowd we have.

So which is it? We are losing hams, and therefore going to lose ham bands? Or we are gaining hams and needing more spectrum space on HF? It can't be both ways - the propaganda is misleading us the way the ones who make money off ham radio want it to at any given moment. Actually, while the preaching has been "we are losing bands," we have gained the WARC bands, acquired more coverage on 160 meters, expanded voice privileges on 40 and 80 meters by 50 KHZ, and are in the process of acquiring a new ham band at 5 MHZ.

Ham radio is growing, not falling apart, and with easier entry, it will grow more and more. True, at least until the code testing requirement is removed, as it will be following the WRC2003, the majority of new hams may be Techs. Once that requirement is removed, there will be no more Technician license. We will have two licenses only - General (Techs and Novices will be upgraded) and Extra (which will include Advanced.) And, in short order after that, we will have only one class; Extra.

The hobby is not dying. It may be changing into something those who have come into the hobby even in the past 20 years will not recognize. But the newcomers will, and they will be the new face of the hobby.

Ed, W5HTW

[W7EG]

As someone who just returned to the fraternity after an absence of almost twenty years, I understand why some of these hams let their licenses lapse. KG4IQB hit the nail on the head, this can be an expensive hobby. I let my license expire back in college because I did not have enough time or money for Ham radio. And after college with a liberal arts degree I could not afford radio gear on a cook's wages.

[list=1]
On the other hand, I can also agree with the proposition that a big part of the reason that we are seeing so many people who never renew their first license is because the license is too easy to aquire. When I was a licensed the first time my Novice exam asked more radio theory questions then I saw on the General Class exam I just passed. The General Class theory test I had to pass when I upgraded to Technician contained questions that are in my Extra Class study guide now, and I was only in ninth grade then.
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Do I want to go back to the old days? Heck no! The tests were much more demanding then they really needed to be, but I would like to see a little more of a hurdle at the entry level. For far too many people even the 5wpm code test is too big of an obstacle to a upgrade. Esspecially when they have so much to do above 50mhz. I say require the 5wpm Morse proficiency right at the start, along with a little more demanding test on rules and procedures. Sure, it will discourage some from giving our hobby a try, but we do not need people who come and go. We need people who plan on hanging around and contributing.

[kc2hrg]

Being a newer Ham, I obviously don't speak from experience, but I would like to share thought about the hobby. Being a Tech., I turned toward vhf-uhf repeaters. I even joined a local club. The people were all great in person but when you signed on to the local machine, nobody seemed interested in speaking with the new guy. I'm not knocking anyone and I'm not sour grapes, but the fact of the matter is most routine rag chewers on the airwaves are in their own click. Combine this with the fact that i must have been told 100 times already that i had it easy compared to the good old days when you had to know the code. I become frustrated at best.
Despite the "Good Ole Boy Club" attitudes, I still mange to keep interest and I always do the best I can as far as radio etiquette, I just offer this in closing, The "Good Ole Boys" I mention should know and understand what team they play on. Instead of knocking newbies, they should encourage them. Because I'm new to the hobby, I'm willing to support Ham events, local clubs, ARRL endeavors, and etc.However, being inexperienced and criticised may cause some nebies to take a back seat or drop out all together. I'll be a "Good Ole Boy" someday, but I hope I won't have to eat my own words.

Why is ham radio dying? Well maybe its number is up. A number of years ago I thought my boss an engineer might be interested in getting a ticket. He was not hostile to HR, far from it. Of course I didn't quite get it when he said, " everything you can do with HR (communicate), I can do on Internet. I can do it faster, with more reliability and bandwidth. And, know what, he is right.
Local clubs put out PR to get new bloods going, but don't really help them along. Too much clique and bleep mentality. But, many get the easy tickets just because its there and they have a short lived fantasy with the HT technology and repeaters. They soon find repeaters are the self proclaimed private property of a lot of old farts.
They find when they call on a machine, even when perhaps five or more are monitoring, nobody goes back to them. Later when you ask the old fart why he didn't answer, his gray feathers get bent out of shape as if somebody put his onions in a wad. Later you hear privately they did not answer the guy because he was unknown to them PERSONALLY! That means we have to see your physically and decide if we can get you to do US a favor/s before we will acknowledge you on a repeater.
Sorry guys, this is the big,ugly, bald and dirty repeater
guru who decides who uses the machine and for what and how long.
Years ago I had a number of my students and some others, all under age 26, get on a local repeater one night a week to talk whatever was on their mind. Even politics etc, were not off limits.
Guess what the ole buzzard was listening and demanded the net be removed. One of the young guys protested, " But, Ernie what the hell is the machine for if not to talk"
No response from the old buzzard except the usual regregiations such as " FCC doesn't like that much talk.. the machine is for casual use, its for everybody since you guys will scare off people who want to make calls."
I say bull S***!!
The machine is quiet 99 percent of the time. What harm was done by a one hour round table oone night a week when these young guys only had HTs and could not afford or even want higher power simplex equipment.
There are lots of reasons HR is a dead duck and the one I've just described is only one of them.
With cell phone and internet, not to mention cheap HTs for the family band, most see ham radio as a dated old fart's hobby. Unfortunmately, they to a large extent are correct. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[wa4dou]

There was a time when amateur radio was a cohesive fraternity. 40-50 years ago, a typical aspirant to a ham ticket came from a background in crystal radios, broadcast band listening/dx'ing and short wave listening. Newcomers to amateur radio were welcomed. As newcomers, licensed or aspiring, we were welcomed because it was expected of us that we would devote ourselves to learning both rules and regs. and theory and morse code, get licensed and move into the mainstream of amateur radio and do so without complaint. And in large measure, we did. As the years went by and we moved into the '70's, fewer new hams came from the past traditional route and more began comming from CB! These brought a jargon with them that offended and alienated a lot of hams. Then we started hearing how "difficult" learning "code" was and a lot of the newcomers have become arrogantly outspoken where once upon a time the newcomers kept quiet and went with the flow. Back then the mainstream of amateur radio was 160-6 meters, with some slight 2 meter activity in some areas.
#I never liked the idea of "recruiting" new hams. To this day I believed and believe that radio is a type of magic that attracts a certain breed of person that will ultimately find their way, and will ultimately pay the price of admission. I do not believe in restructuring it to suit newcomers, but that has been done anyway and now we have a class of licensee(no code techs) that have distinguished themselves apart from the previous mainstream of amateur radio. Even now these would find much greater acceptance if they kept their mouths shut and applied themselves to aspiring upward within the ranks. Its their continued arrogant desire to express themselves on issues they know little or nothing about that causes so much ire to be directed toward them and that is the main issue that causes so much rejection of them.
#Amateur radio underwent the very same transformation that the greater society underwent. To the extent that agitators, troublemakers ,and "social engineers" have plagued our society with divisive issues, so their counterparts have done to amateur radio. To a very large extent, the modern system of education has failed and amateur radio is now reaping these failures. The situation isn't going to improve.

[DY1VCO]

In the Philippines, the sad state of the hobby may be attributed to lack of government control in the sale of tranceivers specially in the two meters and seventy cm bands and even in the hf bands. #Anyone can just buy and operate one anytime. #Second, #there is a shortage of willing hams to elmer newcomers. #Third, our national organization of hams here have mostly come a single club not representing the true voice of Philippine hams. #Fourth, #Class D (Novice/No Code) operators are being frowned upon as no different from some people in the citizens band and the commercial radio (I don't have to mention people here). #Fifth, #some foreign nationals have been operating here with a license that was bought allegedly from government authorities. #Lastly but not the last yet...some licensees supposed to understand CW owing to the code requirement in their license class couldnt decode codes at their designated speeds.

These has gone for years and nothing really changes. #I hate and I am sad to say this but this is what I see.