Why does everything cost so much.

[KG4OWE]

I am a school teacher. In case you did not know, teachers don't make or have much money. I have been a ham now for 6 months. I simply don't have the $$ to buy a rig worth having.

All I really want to do is work 2M around Murray KY, for the weather net and other special events for now. If anyone has any ideas on how to get a rig that doesn't cost half a years house payments and the like I am begging you to let me know.

Thank you and 73
Michael Delaney
KG4OWE

[KD7KOY]

If 2 meters is all you want, try the Icom 2100H. About $160.00. I have seen them on sale for as little as $139.00. Good dependable rig for the money.

Or: Post for a good used one. Just make sure they have kept their "golden screwdrivers" out of it.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KB1GYQ]

If you are only interested in 2M FM, the Yaesu FT-1500 and Yaesu/Vertex VX-150 are very good rigs, both build like tanks, and cost somewhere around $150. They are about the best price/value on the market. The Icom IC-2100 also appears to be a nice rig, be I have no personal experiance with it. Many reviews can be found at www.eham.com .. the review section here is too new.

Oh, and they cost so much because there is very little market for them. Supply and Demand... It gets me upset too, it is so much less expensive to buy new than to build, assuming it's available, that it takes some of the fun out of it.

73 de KB1GYQ

[WB2WIK]

KG4OWE: Indeed, 2m (only) rigs surely don't cost anything equivalent to any "house payments," they abound for less than $200 brand new, and several models are much less.

Point to ponder: Maybe you're teaching in the wrong state! The Los Angeles Times just published the salaries of all the teachers employed by the Los Angeles Unified School District (which has about 2 million kids enrolled in hundreds of schools all over L.A.) and the average income was over $50,000. There were more than 100 teachers being paid over $100,000, and several administrators making double that.

No wonder the schools have no money for new books here!

73 de Steve, WB2WIK/6

[W0BKR]

Look for a used Kenwood TM-241A, TM-261A, etc. New they were around $150-170. Used they are around $100-130. Easily affordable if that is what you want. However, if you are eyeing something more ellaborate, then, by all means, you may have to get another job to afford it. Kinda like buying a TS-850 used for HF (excellent radio) for the now selling price of $750-1000 used (with options) or opting to procure the IC-756PRO II for around $2700+. I can't afford that either. I opt for used radios.

GL!

I got my first 2 meter mobile rig new for $150, an ADI-AR-146, and its still is with me today. You can buy the current model (AR-147) for about the same price.

My HF rig is a Kenwood TS-120, an older one but solid state and works great, and they can be had for $300 or less.

Its all in what you want to do, keep an eye on the swap pages here!

[KD5NCO]

Icom 746pro, ( HF 6M and 2M) you will grow into it and
you don't have to worry about payments

thay want cash

tutor 10 kids over the summer and the
top of the line rig is all yours

having worked 23 years as a soldier
for one half what an average teacher
makes, I am not all that sympathetic
when it comes to lamenting the cost
of things you want.


This is not to say that TEACHERS in general
are not getting the short end of the stick
they are. But they (teachers) all know the deal when
they sign up...

just like I knew I would never get rich as a soldier.

I took my first twenty days leave in 1974 at Fort
Lewis washington, worked as a choker setter
for Simpson timber and saved enough for my first
"store bought" radio.

Dollar for dollar I think things are cheaper now then
they were then as a function of percentage of earnings.
But that thinking is really relative to percent increase of
earnings vs percent increase of goods and sevrices as it
relates to my personal economic situation. Not every one
will have the same perception as I do.

[WB2WIK]

Fred, I do share your perception.

In 1965, an 8 year-old National NC-300 (my "dream receiver" at the time) cost $250. Since I was a 13 year-old kid, for me that was like a year's income. But I was a kid, so that doesn't really count.

But my dad was employed full-time as a designer for church and library interiors, and was reasonably well paid at the time. $250 was about a week's salary for Dad. Remember, this is just a "receiver," it doesn't transmit or have any related accessories.

A Johnson Ranger II transmitter (75W "DC input," 160 through 6 meters) at the time cost about $379. That was about 1-1/2 weeks' salary for dear old Dad. Not that he ran out and bought this stuff (he didn't), but I'm using Dad as an example of an adult with a job.

So, the equivalent of a "transceiver" today, would have cost about 2-1/2 weeks' salary.

For someone making $25,000 a year in 2002 ($480 per week), 2-1/2 weeks' salary is $1202. For $1202 you can buy a whole lot more ham radio equipment today than you could in 1965 for $629.

For someone making $75,000 a year in 2002, 2-1/2 weeks' salary is $3606. That will buy one hell of a radio.

And, using the standard inflation scale, my Dad, if he were alive today and doing the same job he did in 1965, would be making about $75,000.

Thus, the postulate is accurate. We get much more "bang for the buck" in ham radio gear today than we ever did.

WB2WIK/6

[kd7qis]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fredvon4 @ April 17 2002,13:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Icom 746pro, ( HF 6M and 2M) you will grow into it and
you don't have to worry about payments[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
6 meter and 2 meter are both VHF, not HF. Anyway, good luck with the radio. I just got a tri-band handheld for $260

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I have been a Ham off and on for the better part of fourty years and have only bought one new radio. I could have done just as well with a used one with comparable features. So I guess it depends one one's deffinition of &quot;worth having&quot;. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I prefer the bullit proof older rigs for HF ( you didn't mention your license class ) and very affodable Yeasu, Kenwood and ADI ( clones ) are available on the used market for UHF/VHF.

Any way you go after it, for the VHF/UHF stuff with CTCSS etc. you can expect to spend $100 plus for one &quot;worth having&quot;.

73 de Craig.........KCØGOA http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W5ATX]

I concur with just about all that's been said here. I was shocked to see a new ham radio catalogue about a year ago and find so many good quality NEW rigs in the $150-200 range. They're out there and plenty of bang for your buck.

Steve, you're right. There's a LOT of radio to be had for the buck compared to what was for sale years ago. I still have trouble thinking about Collins gear of the early and mid 50's. I think I recall seeing an old ad for a 75A-1 for +/- $750 around 1951 or so. That was a HELL of a alot of money then, yet there is no shortage of that category of rig out there used today. And obviously they sold a lot more than what is still extant. To think that back then a LOT of money did go into ham rigs. (Over the years, I've been blessed with owning both a 75A-1 and a 32V. Just didn't have them at the same time!!!) It's just mind boggling to think about 750 1951 dollars being spent on a ham band only (plus a bit) receiver. Wow.

And KD7QIS, I am not personally famililar with the exact specs of the rig Fred commented on, but even so, I'm quite sure he meant the rig cover HF, AND 2m AND 6m. As far as I can tell, Fred has always been one of the most knowledgeable folks on here. Please check your facts and position before putting someone down.

As for salaries, teachers make pretty decent money here in NJ, and I'm not quite sure what we get for out $$$. On the other hand, as the father of public school students, I refuse to blame today's woes on the teachers. The system maybe, but not JUST the teachers. On the other hand, knowing how much they earn does make me wonder where KG4OWE is teaching that his financial woes seems pretty deep. I guess it's regional economics.

As a state correction officer in NJ, I take in a good share of the taxpayers' dollars. I like to think we are worth what we make, but who knows. I know (as a point of reference) that correction officers starting salary in Texas is about $17k/yr. You couldn't get me to drive PAST a prison for that. Again, all a matter of regional economics I guess.

Enough of that soapbox. OWE, I hope some of this advice has been useful. I suggest though looking at the ham retailers' websites, collecting catalogues, and maybe even looking at Ebay. Do your homework before you spend even $150. That's a lot of money to blow if you decide in two weeks you made a bad choice. And if you come back here with more questions, you're sure to get answers.

Congratulations and welcome to the ham fraternity.

73,

Chris

[ke5wj]

If you think costs are high, you ought to see things down here in YV-land! All ham gear prices are about double what they are in the US - no joke. It all gets imported through the US, with shipping costs, import fees, etc. that drive the price way up.

The other side of the coin is that most things - like food and clothes - cost more than in the US and salaries are also about half of the going rate in the US for professionals, even though many have advanced degrees from well respected US universities. Of course minimum wage just went up to around $10 #.... #per day.

The costs are all relative, but we have it pretty darn good in the US, no doubt about it.

[KD5NCO]

My reference to Icom 746pro was a poor tounge in cheek
illeteration of &quot;top of the line&quot; rig that happens to have
2meter included. In a pure sense it is not the BEST ever
rig, I'm not sure we could ever agree on what BEST might
be as diverse as we all are......

none the less, the Icom 746pro (I don't have one ....yet)
is a extrordinary buy for $1900... read the AES description or the current issue of QST to see if it don't come very close to a dream radio for most ops (for the money).

Some times I don't spend the time to properly re read my posts to see if the message I intended will get through.

Today I did relook ,and to my own eye, that post was poorly written and I pledge to try and do better.

[KB9YFI]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd7qis @ April 17 2002,15http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fredvon4 @ April 17 2002,13:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Icom 746pro, ( HF 6M and 2M) you will grow into it and
you don't have to worry about payments[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
6 meter and 2 meter are both VHF, not HF. Anyway, good luck with the radio. I just got a tri-band handheld for $260[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Icom 746- HF and VHF and UHF - all modes -all for $1200. #You don't seem to know your radios as well as your acronyms. Did you really think Fred did not know this?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?

[kc0lli]

Single band 2M mobile Icom IC-2100H on sale at HRO for $129.99 through the end of the month. Good radio, great price. I know some people who've bought 3 or 4 for all of their vehicles plus spares! I bought one today and might buy another.

[W6ECE]

All prices are relative. Today the low cost of electronic equipment amazes me. In 1948 I was making $.50 an hour. There was no lawful minumum wage, but this was average. I bought my first new receiver, a Hallicrafters SX 25, the middle of the line at that time, for $90.00. Gasoline was $.20/ Gal. It took me 180 Hours of work to purchase that receiver.

I spent $30.00 for new parts plus #some scrounged surplus parts to build my first 30 watt CW Crystal Controled plug in coil transmitter. Another 60 hours work.
My first station cost me 240 hours of work (wages).

Today minimum wage is over $5.00 an hour. 240 hours of work would equal $1200. That will buy a LOT of radio today and far better quality than my first station, but not as much fun!

There have been some very good post on this forum. Put things in perspective and enjoy.

73 Bernie W6ECE

[W5ATX]

You're right Bernie; not as much fun.

I got started in '75, so the era of manufactured rigs was in full swing. My first transmitter was a 6L6 and a crystal on 7123, but I had FUN!!!!!! There was also the &quot;mystique of radio&quot; that no longer exists. Maybe that was part of the fun.

Now that every kid has a cell phone in a pocket, TV comes to the dish from outer space, and radio will be soon too, where is the mystique? I think THAT'S why kids don't give a hill of beans about hamming anymore. I remember in 1975 my buddies coming to the house and being amazed by what they saw. And they didn't even know the code, had NO clue what I was actually doing. It was mysterious though, so they were amazed.

Oh well, enough.

73,

Chris

LIFE IS EXPENSIVE, JUST TRY TO LOOK AROUND SOME HAM FEST, AND YOU CAN FIND SOME #REAL DEALS.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n7uo]

Michael:

You've gotten some superb recommendations for rigs. #I have the IC-2100H in two of my vehicles, and an FT-1500 in my shack. #Both my wife and I carry the VERTEX VX-150's and love them. #The 2100 is a work horse and I strongly recommend it...It's a pain to program, but most ICOM'S are, but with the software it's a breeze.

As far as teachers being paid too little, well that's another story. #If I worked 180 days a year vice 278 like most people with 3-4 vacations sprinkled in, and like most of the teachers in my area, worked from 8:30 to 1500, I don't think the wages would be too bad. #Indeed, you do have continuing education requirements, but most professional fields do. #

Every year, teachers put us in a strangle hold for more money, because &quot;they're paid too little&quot; and they essentially vote themselves another pay raise. #Personally, be glad you have a job, and a damn important one at that. #We appreciate your endeavors, but don't appreciate the continuing teacher complaints about how little they're paid. #Hell, who's paid enough today?

Frank/N7UO

[KG4OWE]

Look folks,

I did not intend to start a war over wages here. Its standard practice to have an attention getter to improve response to any given message. Perhaps mine was over board. I am not going bite on the jabs at my comments they are irrelevant to the question. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I want to thank everyone for thier suggestions and comments. Also, thanks to joe for the great 2M antenna specs. I am building the array this weekend.

73
Michael KG4OWE

[WB2WIK]

Michael, don't take any of this too seriously. It makes a &quot;thread&quot; interesting when people pitch in with their comments, which often are not aimed at the original posted message or person -- kind of a &quot;roundable QSO.&quot; And the threads get waaaay off topic, often. I don't think the moderators lock any of them down unless they become very derogatory and antagonistic.

Here's one that has nothing to do with 2m FM rigs, but everything to do with &quot;salaries,&quot; and maybe the group will enjoy this:

Yesterday's L.A. Times had a 1/4-page ad, recruiting for new police officers. Starting wage: $48,000 (min) to $63,000 (max), first year, which is paid during academy training. Requirements: 20-1/2 years old min, 40 years old max, high school diploma or G.E.D., and U.S. Citizenship or &quot;pending&quot; citizenship.

No wonder I can't find a cop when I need one, they're out shopping at Saks Fifth Avenue! &lt;grin&gt;

73 de Steve, WB2WIK/6

[ab8lq]

If you're looking for 2m I'd go ahead and add 440 into that. You can find good prices on used dual band mobiles and HTs, and that's what I'd suggest you do -- buy used. Make sure it's new enough to have PL and you can work repeaters, and you'll be okay. An Icom 207H is a nice dual bander mobile which goes for around $200 on ebay. Nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't have all the bells and whistles other rigs have. I have one in my truck as my mobile unit and I'm happy with it.

Now, off topic teachers and pay rant:

I'm somewhat familier with the situation in KY regardling teachers as a good friend is a teacher there. Teachers aren't paid well, even when you figure there are about two months they don't have to work (though many do). I don't know about this last year but I do know they went several years without raises. I think the work they do is, in the long run, far more important than what I do, and yet my skills are much more highly valued in the marketplace. Is your work as important as theirs? The guy made an off the cuff comment about not having much to spend on a rig. *Why* isn't really important. If you can help him out with a suggestion or two, go ahead and help. If you can't there's no need to tell him how much more stuff cost 40 years ago, or that you got paid have as much and worked extra hard for your first radio.

Play nice, folks.

Sean.
www.qsl.net/ab8lq

[NN6EE]

HIYA MICHAEL!!! #(KG4OWE)

Say, if your really that hard pressed for BUCKS right now I'd be happy TO GIVE YOU A extra RADIO SHACK 2m. RIG that I'm not using and probably won't anyway!!!

So if you happen to read this reply just EMAIL me and we'll make arrangements to get it to YOU!!!

YOU CAN'T DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT, RIGHT???

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif #es 73,

Jim/nn6ee

[N3SOZ]

I just bought an Icom T2H to replace my old Radio Shack HTX-202. So far I'm impressed, it has 6 watts out with the battery pack, extended receive (130-180 Mhz approx.), and built-in NOAA weather channel functionality. It was $125 new at a hamfest, and I believe most of the big dealers are asking that much. The only gripe I have so far is the squelch is internally set (no knob). It can be adjusted via the keypad. It comes with Nicad batteries and a charger. Good luck!

Matt
N3SOZ

[NN6EE]

YO?

ALL MY FRATERNAL BROTHERS, you did'nt get it DID YOU??? JESUS, here you guys are spouting off prices of gear either NEW OR USED!!! The ORIGINAL POSTER wanted help from the HEART, not from anyone who knew where the BEST DEAL WAS!!!

HOW FRIGG'N DUMB CAN &quot;SOME&quot; OF YOU GUYS REALLY BE??? # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Ok, maybe the above statement was a bit harsh now that I think about it, but still there's lots of budding HAMS who just don't have the present financial wherewithall to get into our hobby with out others' generosity!!!

I'm glad to be in a posistion to HELP SOMEONE INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT PRICE VIRTUES!!! You sure in the HECK can't buy much gear if there's NO MONEY THERE TO BEGIN WITH!!!

I know, I was once in that same kind of situation and I'll readily admit it especially when trying to get into a HOBBY like ours!!!

nn6ee

[kb3dir]

How much did you pay for your computer or is one of your fringe benefits computer access at the school where you teach? The cost of electronic items has been dropping like a stone the past few years. The things that we really need like food, clothing, shelter and transportation have been going up. The old timers used to build their own rigs and that could be expensive too.
If you want it bad enough you'll find a way. You'll just have to review your budget and start asking yourself one question before buying something. Do I really need this?

Good Luck and 73s

Dannyboy http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif