What Exactly is so wrong with "10-4"...

[k9kjm]

Hard to understand the HATE by lots of AR (Anal Retentive) hams over a simple question posted by
W6SN.

W6SN in NO WAY made any reference to CB........
BUT MANY hams attacked the post as such......

Yes, Emcomm is promoting the use of Plain language in all radio communications... BUT the simple "10-4" for acknowledgement #is going to remain in use for a long time to come. NO one asked about using the full 10 codes on ham radio.
Yet lots of hate was directed at this angle also.
No wonder ham radio is indeed a dying hobby.

And now a moderator shuts this thread off?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? #For WHAT reason??? #Because it is going nowhere???
LOTS of threads here go Nowhere! #

These CLOSED MINDED attitudes are a sad day for ham radio. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[kf6rdn]

There's a 10 code that should be "PC" to use on AR..


I would mention it, but I gotta go take a 10-100..
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KG4CGC]

Dead horse beaters: 1,000,000
Dead horse: 0

[k9kjm]

And K9STH had the history correct. The old
"Highway Patrol" show, (And police agencies in general)
were using the old ten codes LONG before the start of CB radio (And the CB abuse of the 10 codes)

HOW some can compare the abuse by CBers to the question asked is beyond me. I guess I have to agree with W6SN. The blind hatred is just very hard to understand.

It sure does reek of "We are so much better than you, We dont even want to use any of your phrases"

And those that say it has no part in the "ham radio history" or whatever, You have never taken part in an Emcomm exercise with your local police/Fire/Sheriff have you??? # #Talking to such agencies around here WILL include the use of "10-4" #(Which is much faster and easier to say over the air than the alternatives of plain language)

[w8znx]

that's nice
calling those of us
that have been amateur radio ops
most of our lives

anal retentive
full of hate
closed minded *

man oh man
you realy are a cool

* this anal retentive, full of hate, closed mind, old fart

drop'ed out of high school 2 weeks before graduation,
fought in one war, came home to protested same war,
hitchhiked across the country, did some jail time,
dsn't believe in god,

thinks
you must have better things
to do with your life
than tilting at the windmills of ham radio

if you truly want to rail aganst
the ills of the world
you are wasteing your time here
go out and realy try to change the world

yours truly
Mac

[wa9cwx]

AND,


uuuhhhh,KJM...The QUESTION dealt with WHY the hatred.......REMEMBER...?

People ( myself included), mentioned that one of the main REASONS......was because of the early operating practices on CB, and 10-4, being associated with those practices hams CHOSE to DROP using the 10 codes.

Try to get this now....THAT IS NOT an attack....it is an EXPLINATION by someone who was THERE, discussing the issue WITH other hams....

Answering a question with an answer by people who were present at the time is USUALLY considered a GOOD thing, usually NOT taken as an attack....

[KF0RT]

Here we go... again.

[KA4DPO]

Drop it, this is a dead issue.

Oh BTW, you have my blessing to use all the 10 codes you like any time you like and I really don't care.


Moderator's note:

I removed the offending graphic that was posted here.

I sincerely suggest that it, and nothing else along the same line be posted again.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[KD6NIG]

I don't have a problem with a police officer, or other public safety person using it on thier radio in thier course of work.

I do have a problem with it occuring on my local amateur repeater, unless used properly (ie, 10-4) not ten-fer, teeeeeeennnn-fooooyur or in any other way. Used properly in communications I don't have a problem with, but just being yelled to be obnoxious I do have a problem with.

[KI6ADA]

Hey Snowman, seen any smokies? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (KI6ADA @ Aug. 17 2005,09:26)]Hey Snowman, seen any smokies? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
The one I always laughed at was when he referred to Sheriff Buford's car as a "Texas Bubblegum Machine".

BTW ADA: Welcome to the hobby. Wife should be testing this weekend, with a little luck she'll be a KI6A something also.

[kc2kde]

Quote[/b] (k9kjm @ Aug. 17 2005,01:28)]Hard to understand the HATE by lots of AR (Anal Retentive) hams over a simple question posted by
W6SN.

W6SN in NO WAY made any reference to CB........
BUT MANY hams attacked the post as such......

Yes, Emcomm is promoting the use of Plain language in all radio communications... BUT the simple "10-4" for acknowledgement #is going to remain in use for a long time to come. NO one asked about using the full 10 codes on ham radio.
Yet lots of hate was directed at this angle also.
No wonder ham radio is indeed a dying hobby.

And now a moderator shuts this thread off?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? #For WHAT reason??? #Because it is going nowhere???
LOTS of threads here go Nowhere! #

These CLOSED MINDED attitudes are a sad day for ham radio. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Come on, W6SN had to know that his topic would start trouble. That's like me starting a "what's wrong with republicans" thread on a democrat site. We're not stupid. It was mindless trolling, and it looks to me like its being continued here. And, to you, why start another thread with the same intent if the moderator already shut down the first one? WTH?

[KG4CGC]

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/19000/19198_w.jpg

[K9STH]

NIG:

The emergency light that had the single high dome was called a "bubblegum machine" by quite a few people including those in public safety and those who worked in the service shops that took care of the emergency equipment.

Of course those have been generally replaced with "viz-bars" that have a lot more equipment mounted on them yet are easier to install.

I let myself get "talked into" becoming the Federal Siren warranty service center for Texas and Oklahoma in about 1979. Working on the lights and sirens was not a problem. It was the LOUSEY FM receivers that Federal was selling with their storm warning fixed siren systems. It was almost impossible to keep the tone decoders on frequency (they were tunable, coil - capacitor arrangements). We had to replace a number of them with either Motorola or the later Plectron equipment (both of which used reed type decoding). The early Plectron receivers were almost as bad as the Federal receivers in terms of problems with the tone decoders.

Glen, K9STH

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Aug. 17 2005,12:15)]NIG:

The emergency light that had the single high dome was called a "bubblegum machine" by quite a few people including those in public safety and those who worked in the service shops that took care of the emergency equipment.

Of course those have been generally replaced with "viz-bars" that have a lot more equipment mounted on them yet are easier to install.

I let myself get "talked into" becoming the Federal Siren warranty service center for Texas and Oklahoma in about 1979. #Working on the lights and sirens was not a problem. #It was the LOUSEY FM receivers that Federal was selling with their storm warning fixed siren systems. #It was almost impossible to keep the tone decoders on frequency (they were tunable, coil - capacitor arrangements). #We had to replace a number of them with either Motorola or the later Plectron equipment (both of which used reed type decoding). #The early Plectron receivers were almost as bad as the Federal receivers in terms of problems with the tone decoders.

Glen, K9STH
Yeah, here in CA I have seen some highway patrol cars with the real low profile ones that look like LED flashers when they are on, and bright as heck too.

I remember seeing those "bubblegum" ones on the cop cars in Detroit in "Beverly Hills Cop" also, but the BHPD cars, when he got there, were 'modern' I noticed too.

[KA4DPO]

The California Highway Patrol phased out the bublegum lights in about 1960 and went to the mickey mouse ear light bars. I haven't seen one of the old domes in years.

[N0KLT]

Speaking of the old bubble gum machine lights, there is a car here in town that belongs, I assume, to some collector. It's an early 60's Ford Falcon. I see it now and then but have never been close enough to it to see what is writen on the doors. The car is painted in the classic black and white police car paint job and in the middle of the top it has a full sized red dome 'bubblegum machine' light. Some folks say that the car was orignally a small town cop car and this guy got it and restored it. I think it runs historical plates, but then again I am never close enough to it to read the plates. As I remember it has some sort of door emblems but I am not sure what they say or even if they are there or if I am misremembering. Supposedly he drives it in parades around the area. I see it sitting in his driveway next to his house but I don't remember seeing it on the streets. The bubblegum machine almost looks out of proportion to the car it is that large. Looks like something right out of Highway Patrol. I can't remember the last time I saw a bubblegum machine on a cop car other then this one. There are a few funeral escort cars with smaller versions of that type of light that are used but they are smaller and less bright red then the old style cop ones.

[KD6NIG]

Yeah, the local Sheriff (San Joaquin) uses those too, but with a twist, they also have a red light on the dash. #Thats usually the first one I spot when one of them is coming up behind me on the freeway. #They seem to get a lot of calls in this area and use the freeway to get there quicker-course the flashing headlights usually helps you notice them in the mirror too, but the red light they have on the dash is super bright-almost to the point of being blinding, or maybe thats just how they aim them.

I've seen some of the newer CHP cars with a red LED below the mirror too-looks like LED technology is working great since they are bright as heck when they have them on, even during the day. #

I have a truck driver who comes into this facility every week-hes got those LED lights everywhere. #When you're behind him the whole edge of the truck lights up when his turn signals are on. #He's also got some extra headlights he keeps covered-but uncovers them for the long treks in Canada (I guess they are ok up there on the dark roads). #I guess the bright LEDs draw little power though, so you can get away with tons of them without getting fast flasher syndrome like you do hauling a trailer and not upgrading your flasher with normal bulbs.

[KA4DPO]

I remember Ford Fairlane Sherrif's cars out in San Diego county in the early 60's and like you said, the dome light was almost as big as the cars. That was when Fairlaines were still pretty large but still not a big car at the time. I do remember the CHP had Plymouths and Dodges that could just about outrun a Corvette. I drove a 64 Doge Polara CHP cruiser that a friend got at auction. I think it was a 383 but definetly not stock. Even with 100K miles on it it would lay rubber like it was sitting on ice. It was an ugly car but fun to drive.

[w3sy]

Why the fuss over "tain foar?" Didn't know it was an issue. Can't remember the last time I even HEARD it on the ham bands.

I *do* kinda wish some people would quit using "QSL" to mean "yes" or "I agree."

Examples:

1) "Yew gonna go out on yer boat an' git drunk this weekend?"

# #"QSL!"


2) "That dang duckplucker better not modyatate on this here REpeater channel no more if he knows what's good for 'im!"

# #"CUUUUUUUUUE ESS ELL!!"


As for nonsense like tayun fore, nobody ever caused the death and destruction of inocent people by using that term, but then again, don't we try to discourage our kids from saying "ain't" and other linguistic abominations? Why do we do THAT? It might be because we are socialized to associate that kind of talk with morons and hillbillies, and we'd like our kids to at least APPEAR half way intelligent. I guess it has to start somewhere!

So it is with the much-maligned ten four. To most hams, 10-4 = CB, and CB = idiocy. Therefore, transitively, 10-4 = idiocy. Fair or unfair, 10-4 will always be associated with unskilled, law breaking radio lids.

Quoting 1 Corinthians 13:11 -- When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I have become a man, I have put away childish things.

This is a paraphrase of how many CBers-turned-hams feel about their transition from CB to hamming. They wanted to distance themselves as much as possible from 11 meter operating practices, including, and especially, the "colorful lingo" that CB has spawned.

Conclusions -- It's best to keep the CB lingo on CB. We'll all get along better in the long run. It's not worth trying to prove a point. If you still aren't convinced, ask yourself how you feel the next time you hear an 8 year old say, "I ain't got no time to do my dang homework."

Out.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Aug. 17 2005,08:30)]Moderator's note:

I removed the offending graphic that was posted here.

I sincerely suggest that it, and nothing else along the same line be posted again.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators
Darn. Always a day late and a dollar short.

[W4ABX]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ Aug. 17 2005,03:32)]There's a 10 code that should be "PC" to use on AR..
I would mention it, but I gotta go take a 10-100..
Roger, QSL, 73,QRT....See what I mean? I have heard serveral hams who would acknowledge every transmission with "roger that" , or "QSL".
Get over it. Enjoy what you got, and don't worry about the CB'ers. I would take a chance and say that a LARGE number of the Hams who complain come from the ranks of the 11 meter clan. What better, and less expensive way to get your feet wet in the radio communications hobby?
'Nuff said!
W4ABX QRT

[ve7fmx]

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Aug. 18 2005,09:06)]Why the fuss over "tain foar?" Didn't know it was an issue. Can't remember the last time I even HEARD it on the ham bands.

I *do* kinda wish some people would quit using "QSL" to mean "yes" or "I agree."

Examples:

1) "Yew gonna go out on yer boat an' git drunk this weekend?"

"QSL!"


2) "That dang duckplucker better not modyatate on this here REpeater channel no more if he knows what's good for 'im!"

"CUUUUUUUUUE ESS ELL!!"


As for nonsense like tayun fore, nobody ever caused the death and destruction of inocent people by using that term, but then again, don't we try to discourage our kids from saying "ain't" and other linguistic abominations? Why do we do THAT? It might be because we are socialized to associate that kind of talk with morons and hillbillies, and we'd like our kids to at least APPEAR half way intelligent. I guess it has to start somewhere!

So it is with the much-maligned ten four. To most hams, 10-4 = CB, and CB = idiocy. Therefore, transitively, 10-4 = idiocy. Fair or unfair, 10-4 will always be associated with unskilled, law breaking radio lids.

Quoting 1 Corinthians 13:11 -- When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I have become a man, I have put away childish things.

This is a paraphrase of how many CBers-turned-hams feel about their transition from CB to hamming. They wanted to distance themselves as much as possible from 11 meter operating practices, including, and especially, the "colorful lingo" that CB has spawned.

Conclusions -- It's best to keep the CB lingo on CB. We'll all get along better in the long run. It's not worth trying to prove a point. If you still aren't convinced, ask yourself how you feel the next time you hear an 8 year old say, "I ain't got no time to do my dang homework."

Out.
You can quit quoating Paul, cause he was not talking about radio...lol and as a CB turned ham (still a CBer) first7 let me say that i almost if never use ten codes on ham bands.. use them on 11m all the time... however if one was to use ten codes on the ham bands I wouldn't care less.... if they have an accent when they say it... well so do most hams...

As for hillbilles... i am one and damn proud of it..lol

BTW the ten codes are used reugaularly in every radio service on my scanner. Just a thought

[W4ABX]

Quote[/b] (ve7fmx @ Sep. 16 2005,10:35)]As for hillbilles... i am one and damn proud of it..lol
Roger that!

[K3XR]

Why is the phrase "10-4" faster to say over the air. Try the word "OK". Many agencies in this area did away with 10 codes ( or any other codes) years ago. Plain language works just fine.

[kd7msc]

Quote[/b] (W4ABX @ Sep. 16 2005,09:23)]Quote[/b] (ve7fmx @ Sep. 16 2005,10:35)]As for hillbilles... i am one and damn proud of it..lol
Roger that!
Thats a big TEN FOUR. GIT - R - DONE http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KG4CGC]

fine business QSL QSO

[KA9VQF]

Way back in about 1960 I helped my neighbor build a tremendously huge CB radio out of mostly things he had in his junk box. As time passed he gave it to me.

I use it for a while then other folks figured out that it was no longer at my friends house and was in fact at my house. They wanted to know what my call sign was. I did not have one. If I remember right, back then you were supposed to be 18 years old and pay for a license. I was 10 years old. Most of the people I talked to regularly told these other operators that when they could build a working radio out of stuff from a junk box then they could complain about me using one that I had pretty much made from scratch.

None of these fellows defending me bothered to mention that if it hadn’t been for my neighbor, Bill, I would never have built the thing in the first place. Without his knowledge and parts on hand I would probably never even have been interested.

They hung the title of “Outlaw radio operator” on me. The handle, though shortened to just The outlaw” or “Outlaw” held even once I did return to the CB world as a licensed operator. While I was gone the ‘class’ of operator had declined a lot. Some of the old gang was still around and we started to use the 10 code to try to promote the use of some kind of operating etiquette.

To a large extent, at least in my area of Wisconsin, it worked. Many of the people on CB when the craze hit in the mid to late ‘70’s simply had never bothered to even order a copy of part 95 and the few that did never looked at it once they got it. Many were not licensed even though the requirements had changed and there was no longer even a filing fee.

When the term ‘good buddy’ came along I did not like it, even at the very first. I refused to use it. I always tried to talk in my normal voice and use the same kind of language I always use. This worked for me for a long time. Even when others would come on trying to sound like they were from the deep south or whatever, they too would start talking more like the Wisconsinites they were.

Eventually most of the group I hung out with on the CB lost interest, especially when all you usually heard was Rodger beeps, noise toys and “I’m gonna come over there and kick your _ _ _!” Every time you turned on your radio. Some of us managed to escape this by getting SSB CB’s then we went to 40 channel rigs with SSB.

Many of us tried to learn enough code to become novice class amateur radio operators. A lot of us never did achieve that goal. It took me a lot longer than it probably should have.

I hear a lot of the local hams on the 2M repeater using 10 codes. Some of them use the codes as part of their daily work. Some are LEO’s others use radios in the delivery trucks and use the 10 code in their businesses. I have no problem with it. Yes our local law enforcement people still use the 10 codes. I seriously doubt that many of them know all of the codes stand for.

I know what they mean and can translate them as well as anyone else. If I do run across one that I haven’t heard for a while I still have a hard copy in a picture frame. It was printed my Motorola and intended for LEO use.

[KB9YCO]

I never understood the need for pointless codes of just about any kind. There are certain instances in amateur radio and elsewhere that they are appropriate, but in 99 percent of the amateur conversations going on out there, or CB for that matter, codes are pretty much pointless. Most people I hear over using codes are people trying to fill up their mostly boring conversation with more verbage in an effort to sound like they have something to say, or because they really have nothing to say. To each their own, what's the big deal anyway?

[KG6YTZ]

My tiny little tidbit of troll-food... I have been a CB'er for 18 years, and a ham for six months. I do know that 10-codes and CB slang are just generally not considered proper operating style on the ham bands, so I don't use them on the ham bands.

Actually, I never used them very much on CB either. Maybe the more common ones... 10-4, 10-9?, and so on. I have yet to lose track of my own mind and let a "10-4" slip out on 2m.

[KA4DPO]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k6pme]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Sep. 16 2005,17:37)]Why is the phrase "10-4" faster to say over the air. #Try the word "OK". #Many agencies in this area did away with 10 codes ( or any other codes) years ago. Plain language works just fine.
I haven't used a "code" professionally since oh...about 1979 or so. We use "clear text".

Well, OK, we use one for Coroners cases...only because the Sheriff insists on it.

[w3sy]

For a Coroner Case, I guess you could say the victim went 10-7.

[K8EEI]

Steve , 10 - 3 ! ... 10 - 3 !!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KC9ECI]

We're about to go plain talk here as well. Pretty much every public service department has to or certain federal fundings will be cut off. I guess the next time instead of radioing dispatch that we have a 10-79, I will advise them that we have a semi-ridgid meat-puppet assuming room temperature.

[w3sy]

I guess they just don't want "How boucha, dispatch, ya duck plucka! Ya got yer EARS on?"

[N8CPA]

Quote[/b] (KG6YTZ @ Sep. 17 2005,04:50)]My tiny little tidbit of troll-food... #I have been a CB'er for 18 years, and a ham for six months. #I do know that 10-codes and CB slang are just generally not considered proper operating style on the ham bands, so I don't use them on the ham bands.

Actually, I never used them very much on CB either. #Maybe the more common ones... 10-4, 10-9?, and so on. #I have yet to lose track of my own mind and let a "10-4" slip out on 2m.
Thank you for your attention to detail. Amateur Radio has a unique world wide identity and language. If you aspire to live in Rome, it's courteous to learn Latin.

Gratias agimus tibi!