QRZ's Data Not in Sync With the FCC?

[K5WDW]

I upgraded to extra and was granted my new call sign on #April 7 2002 by the FCC AD5IO how come the only call sign server showing this is the FCC's, I thought that all the others got there info from the FCC's, I would think that by now they would all show the new information.

David
AD5IO

The QRZ editor writes:
To understand the root of the problem one has to realize that the FCC is a big government bureaucracy that is run by a bunch of 9-to-5 employees that have absolutely no stake in amateur radio. #Their computer system is usually about 10 years out of current technology and any custom software they have was either written in-house by an uninspired programmer or was contracted outside to the lowest bidder. #It's well known in Information Technology circles that the brightest stars in high tech don't work for the government. #It's the money. #A competent engineer can easily make twice as much in the commercial sector.

Let's take a moment to understand how the daily callsign data gets from the FCC to outside callsign servers like QRZ.

The FCC maintains an FTP site where the public can download almost anything they have. #Way in the back, mixed in amongst all things non-amateur, you'll find the Amateur Radio section where the license files are released to the public.

There are two classes of files that the FCC provides for download: so-called "Complete" files which contain the entire database of amateurs, and the Daily files which contain everything that was done in the last 24 hours. The Complete files are released weekly, the Daily files, every day - sort of.

Common sense says that you can go out and fetch the latest Complete file and if you get it on the day it was published, you'll have a perfect copy of the FCC's amateur data (minus the things they must conceal). #Then, if you fetch a new daily file each day and apply it to your copy of the complete file, you stay in sync with their database, or so the theory goes.

QRZ, like most callsign servers, work almost exclusively with the daily files. #The Complete (weekly) files are way too big - over 60 megabytes compressed - and take hours to upload into a server. #The daily files tend to be very modestly sized (tens of kilobytes) and are easy to deal with every day. #Here at QRZ we have programs (robots) that automatically go out to the FCC site, fetch the new data an insert it into our database. #This happens on a clock timer without any human intervention whatsoever.

The problem (as you've probably guessed by now) is that the FCC routinely fails to provide an accurate daily update. #We're not talking about the data in their database but the data that they package each day for public distribution. #They also frequently miss days altogether. #They don't tell us when this happens (half the time they are unaware of it), and the result is a loss of database synchronization between QRZ and the FCC. #Such a loss usually minute in percentage terms, unless it's your callsign you're looking for, then it's a crisis.

At least once a month we get letters from hams stating that "I'm on the FCC website but not on QRZ". #Naturally, it's assumed that it's our fault. #When such complaints start to mount, we bite the bullet and take a Complete load, tying up our server for a couple of hours, usually in prime time. #Then we're golden, at least until the FCC stumbles again.

Admittedly, some callsign sites do a better job of babysitting the FCC's dumps than we do. #I don't have the time to hover over the files, check them every day, and drop everything whenever there's a hiccup. #I could improve our 'bots to notify me when a day is missed, but, frankly the alarm would be going off every week. #Instead, I'm quite satisfied to be 99% correct, 99% of the time. #Sometimes, like right after a forced Complete load, we're 100% correct with the definition of "correct" taken to mean a complete synchronization with the FCC's data, and all the mistakes it contains.

So, that's the deal. #We do our best to keep the database in sync but our success rate is usually just below 100%. #I will argue with anybody that we do a pretty good job of keeping track of 1.2 million callsigns (US and foreign), 130,000 registered users, 220,000 email addresses, 30,000 pictures and 50,000 personal biographies.

I know, however, that when it's YOUR callsign that's missing or inaccurate, that it's a big disappointment. #We don't mind hearing about it and we WILL fix it if it's a database synchronisation error. #We won't fix it if it agrees with what the FCC says, even if it's wrong. #You still have to file an official update in that case.

I've learned that many hams are very proud of their callsign data and at times unreasonably so. #Case in point: I received an email from someone who had bought the QRZ CDROM which contains a copy of the FCC database. #It gets printed two times per year and is 100% accurate on the day it gets compiled. #The user wrote me to complain that in order to make sure that his recent license upgrade was reflected on the CD that he had waited several months for the new edition to come out. #Unfortunately, he received the new CDROM and it still listed him with his old license class. #Now he's dissatisfied with QRZ and wants some sort of remedy.

Now I ask, how rediculous is that? #Although I'm not listed in the phone book, do I still want to keep it handy next to the phone? #Yes, absolutely. #Why? #Because I don't go to the phone book to look up my own number anyway. #That's not the reason phone books are printed. #It's also not a reason to delay purchasing a copy of an amateur radio callbook. #Of course, I'm happy to sell them one in any case #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif since it keeps QRZ running!

-fred #AA7BQ

[K1ZC]

You are updated now, at least on QRZ. The reason is that all these call sign servers upload data from batch files created by the FCC. However, due to the sequence used by the FCC to process data, it takes an extra day or so for the new information to make it into those batch files. Couple that with the scheduled downtime at the FCC computer center this past weekend and you get the delay you have seen.

Welcome to Extra class.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif AD5IO ain't in the QRZ data base. But then again, I changed my address on the ULS 3 months ago and that ain't there either. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

The FCC doesn't tell anyone anything until they are ready!

73 de Craig........KCØGOA http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KC8TCQ]

When I got my license, it took a day or two for the QRZ list to show it while the FCC site had it listed. Thats perfectly understandable. Just be happy with your new priviledges. I am looking forward myself to upgrading.

73 de Keith

P.S. the FCC still hasn't changed my info on my address change either

When my callsign was first listed on QRZ, the map link showed me 2 counties away from where my QTH actually is. I discovered (I thought) that QRZ had my zip code wrong, and immediately notified Fred he was wrong! Then, Fred notified me that that was what he had gotten from the FCC. Needless to say, it took awhile to get it fixed on the FCC database. But you know what? The day it got fixed, it appeared right on QRZ also!

Fred, keep up the good work!

And to the one whose callsign is not quite right on QRZ...
the FCC is really the one you have to worry about, because they're the one that matters! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc9bcy]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Thanks for the great explaination, that's much more informative than the FAQ answer to that question, reminds me of the old FIDO mail systems on bbs's i used to call. (landline) I changed my address immediately, after i realized how many people would be seeing it in the near future, to my PO box, and only had updated the CORES listing, but didn't realize why it hand't updated here, or on the ULS, turns out i had to file a 605, and get a new license mailed out before all my address information was updated in the database! a day or so, it was here!

i like the email addresses, and profiles of QRZ, over the information in the FCC's databse tho! Helps me find, and get acquainted with my new neighbors!

l8r

[ab0re]

I usually check the FCCs website when I need to find information as soon as it is updated. #http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/uls is the URL, I believe.

The delay getting the info from the FCC to QRZ is understandable. #I appreciate being able to put biographies, website addresses, and email addresses on your QRZ callsign lookup page. #Once in a while it's fun to look somebody up on QRZ.com for more information after meeting them on the air for the first time.

[AD5GR]

I too fell through the cracks when I upgraded but that crack was a holiday weekend. Whoop-te-do! I had a CSCE that was good for a year and the call would come, despite my continual checking anxious pacing. (Remember when one went downtown to an FCC field office to do things and then waited forever for the license to come in the mail before you were legal?) My point is that QRZ is a great service to the amateur community, one which is provided without cost. I am indebted to them and want to say thanks.
73, Jim

[w7arc]

If you are worried about whether or not you're upgrade or license has been processed, why not check the source? QRZ and the rest of the Call Sign Servers get their information from the FCC and you can check them anytime at http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/uls. The lastest information is always there.

73 W7ARC
Silverdale, WA

[K0OU]

I thought it was just my computer, but when I go into the Callsign Database, and click on Latest FCC updates I get the site that lists the new updates by callign- and that site has not been updated in some months. Although the date at the top of the page is current, the callsigns have not changed since sometime in December or January.
The New Hams/FCC reports seems to be current and lists the updates in alphabetical order by name, but I like to follow what callsigns are being issued now. So I miss the listing by callsigns.
Is it just me, or has QRZ stopped updating the page that lists new FCC updates by callsigns?
K0OU Steve in KC

[ac3p]

Jeez! Aren't there mote important things to complain about?

I remember a time when people had to wait almost six months to get their ticket to operate. Believe me, the process is much better today.

If one is in a big hurry to find his/her new call, just check the ULS database directly. As a VE, I tell the applicants at my test sessions to do just that. I give then URLS for all the major look-ups plus the ULS. #If they don't have the internet, I will do look-ups myself and let them know when they are on the FCC database.

73 and Congrats to all who got a new ticket or upgraded.

Frank AC3P

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w7arc @ April 13 2002,03:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you are worried about whether or not you're upgrade or license has been processed, why not check the source? QRZ and the rest of the Call Sign Servers get their information from the FCC and you can check them anytime at http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/uls (http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/uls.) The lastest information is always there.

73 W7ARC
Silverdale, WA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
When I click on "Search" all I get is "This plug-in only runs on Windows NT/95." Gotta love big government, they sue Microsoft for being a monopoly and turn right around and help them keep their monopoly.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
QRZ and other call sign servers are the only way some of us can do lookups because the FCC has chosen to make a custom Windows plug-in rather than simply allow people to do lookups via a web browser.

[kg4kkn]

IIRC, it's actually trying to load a Sun Java engine, not a Microsoft plugin.

As noted earlier, Amateur Radio is a low priority for the FCC and programming is probably about as low, so Java was what they came up with for everyone using the ULS.

As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

[WI7L]

I recently tried to apply for a vanity call, this during the backlog period, and found that I couldn't get through to the FCC site on my work computer. After many attempts, I finally mailed in my application and started checking QRZ.com for the results. Sure enough, even before I expected it, my new call showed up. I don't know about how everyone else feels, but as far as I'm concerned, Fred is doing one heck of a fine job with what our "friends" at the FCC give him. Thanks for the FB from this end.

73s
Lee
WI7L

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4kkn @ April 14 2002,15:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IIRC, it's actually trying to load a Sun Java engine, not a Microsoft plugin.

As noted earlier, Amateur Radio is a low priority for the FCC and programming is probably about as low, so Java was what they came up with for everyone using the ULS.

As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, it is not a Java [tm] plug-in. If it were, it would run cross platform, just like all Java [tm] plug-ins do.

The ULS is used by all radio services, including Amateur Radio.

For my tax money, I want something that works. As QRZ.COM demonstrates, the plug-in is not needed and therfore a waste of my tax money.

[kg4kkn]

Reply sent privately....

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, it is not a Java [tm] plug-in. If it were, it would run cross platform, just like all Java [tm] plug-ins do.

The ULS is used by all radio services, including Amateur Radio.

For my tax money, I want something that works. As QRZ.COM demonstrates, the plug-in is not needed and therfore a waste of my tax money. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

[MAB2003]

maybe you have to talk to the big guy at qrz

kg6ktz

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ April 14 2002,19:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4kkn @ April 14 2002,15:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IIRC, it's actually trying to load a Sun Java engine, not a Microsoft plugin.

As noted earlier, Amateur Radio is a low priority for the FCC and programming is probably about as low, so Java was what they came up with for everyone using the ULS.

As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, it is not a Java [tm] plug-in. If it were, it would run cross platform, just like all Java [tm] plug-ins do.

The ULS is used by all radio services, including Amateur Radio.

For my tax money, I want something that works. As QRZ.COM demonstrates, the plug-in is not needed and therfore a waste of my tax money.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Found out some good info from kg4kkn. He can get it to run on Mozilla on Linux just fine. That propted me to try something. If I right click on any of the search buttons and open it in a new window, it works. If I simply click on the search button, it pops up a javascript Alert Box that says it only runs on Windows NT/95. I think that it has something to do with the "smartUpdate" function it is calling with the onCLick of those images. When I have some spare time I will track it down, the function is not located in the HTML source (as viewed from a GET using a TCP connection, not a browser) and must be loaded by the browser by some other means indirectly. The point is, I shouldn't have to go to all this trouble to find out what they did wrong. I have not tried it in Mozilla, but it is broken on Netscape 4.75 on *nix. It could simply be my browser, but I seriously doubt it.

-- Terry

[K5KVJ]

I for one am very pleased with Fred and QRZ. Over the Easter weekend I was having trouble signing in to change my profile. Seemed the Loser.... er USER.... LOL (i.e. - idiot me) couldn't remember his password. So I emailed Fred, explained my problem, and was very surprised to get a response back from him.... on Easter Day! And he had it fixed pronto, too! Fred, my hat's off to you for the excellent job you're doing here. Keep up the good work!

73's
Keith (K5KVJ)

[WB0SLI]

Some of you may have forgotten, or for the newer hams, the "Call Book". A unique device that came out once a year (I believe), cost as much as a 2 meter rig at a ham fest and was the main and only way to find an address or call. I hope that with the modern day computer we as hams will not forget our roots and go screaming that "it doesn't work like it's suppose to" when all it usually takes is time
and a little patience, and if that doesn't work FIX IT YOURSELF. I'm sorry but I get a little frustrated
when I hear that people in general want things NOW. Let's all take a step back and just relax.

73's WB0SLI

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB0SLI @ April 15 2002,20:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of you may have forgotten, or for the newer hams, the "Call Book". A unique device that came out once a year (I believe), cost as much as a 2 meter rig at a ham fest and was the main and only way to find an address or call. I hope that with the modern day computer we as hams will not forget our roots and go screaming that "it doesn't work like it's suppose to" when all it usually takes is time
and a little patience, and if that doesn't work FIX IT YOURSELF. I'm sorry but I get a little frustrated
when I hear that people in general want things NOW. Let's all take a step back and just relax.

73's WB0SLI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I will take a broken FCC website and/or a very nice database like QRZ over the old callbook any day of the week http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Nothing like being nostalgic for the bad ole' days http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n8ary]

I had the same problem. I figure the reason stems from "outages," when the FCC website is unavailable, as it was the day my upgrade went through.

During the "outage," QRZ was unable to download the daily file for that day; therefore, the updates did not appear until the larger file got them back in synchronization with the FCC.

[W7MEV]

I have had a couple experiences where I have looked for a call sign on QRZ and have not found it, then when going to the FCC database, did not find it there either. #Makes me wonder if some folks issue their licenses themselves...

I have never taken any action in these instances since I know the FCC is often inefficient, but I always wonder if I should query them about the validity of such a call sign. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[K4RTN]

???You should have been in my shoes when I returned to Ham Radio in the early 90's. I had to wait 17 weeks for my call. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif , by then I did not care how long it took to get on QRZ.
Jack K4RTN

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc8gow @ April 16 2002,17:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have had a couple experiences where I have looked for a call sign on QRZ and have not found it, then when going to the FCC database, did not find it there either. Makes me wonder if some folks issue their licenses themselves...

I have never taken any action in these instances since I know the FCC is often inefficient, but I always wonder if I should query them about the validity of such a call sign. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Not all U.S. call signs are in the FCC database. Some DOD calls, such as KC4AAA, do not show up. At least that is what I have been told.

[W2TXB]

When I applied for and received my current call sign, the data appeared on the FCC and the QRZ sites at approximately the same time, and it was before I received anything in the mail. There is variation in the delay experienced by some as explained in the preceding posts.

[KE6MGB]

When I got my first license as a Tech, it took 1 1/2 months for the FCC to finally send me my license. About a year or so after that, people were getting their license's within 2 week's if not sooner. I received all my upgrades rather quickly as well, but about 8 years ago they were very slow.

Rod
KE6MGB http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N8VZ]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W2TXB @ April 20 2002,20http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When I applied for and received my current call sign, the data appeared on the FCC and the QRZ sites at approximately the same time, and it was before I received anything in the mail. There is variation in the delay experienced by some as explained in the preceding posts.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've had a similar experience. #I passed my Extra exam on April 13. #The FCC database showed the upgrade today for the first time, and it appeared on qrz.com today, too! #Now, that's fast! #I have not yet received my license in the mail. #From the experiences of several of my friends who upgraded about a month ago, I should receive the license in a few more days. #

Keep up the good work qrz.com!

73 #Carl KA8JXG

[ne5b]

QRZ does not list either my old or new call.......

I went throught the FCC's Vanity process, and as of early Tuesday morning now have the Callsign WB5EN.

VanityHQ.COM (http://vanityhq.com), and Buckmaster both started showing my new callsign Wednesday, QRZ was still showing my old Call.

Now as of Thursday QRZ does not show either my #old - "KM5OT" or new - "WB5EN" Callsign.

My info According to the FCC As of 23-Apr-02 10http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0 gmt (http://texasparadise.com/km5ot/uls)

Seems the FCC's daily files were correct otherwise VanityHQ and BuckMaster wouldn't have the new call sign showing on their lists.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[kb9num]

I upgraded to Extra and the new class showed up on the FCC database on the 25th, QRZ and the rest on the 26th. #The only one that lagged was the University of Arkansas, Little Rock database. #In my case it worked well. #Thanks, QRZ. #