5 Shots To The Head

[KE7DFP]

How nice it is to hear of a situation handled so summarily, and with professional precision. The British Security forces, in a country which banded guns for police until recently, do a superb job on todays terrorist. Police fired five shots at a terrorist in heavy winter coat and rucksack, who ran from police and refused to comply. It is my understanding he was already seen laying on his back and pushing a button. By standers heard a click and a pop. Each shot the Police fired, hit the Muslim Terrorist squarely in the head. 5 for 5 .Where did these guys learn to shot like that? Hats off to the Brits. Give 'em hell mates. Let's see some of that here in the good ol' USA. Isn't about time for a little "racial profiling".

[n0ov]

Just because the Bobby's don't carry guns (normally) doesn't mean they don't know how to use them. I've met some of these gents and they are the finest in the land.

Sorry they had to use deadly force, but I am truely glad they had the opportunity to do so before more people were hurt.

[w5klb]

"Racial Profiling"? Would that include "DWB" (Driving While Black)? How about "DWD"(Driving while Dutch) which would include my family? My point is that "racial profiling" has a lot a room for abuse. Just because someone, is black, muslim, Native Ameican, or Hispanic, doesn't give any law enforement official the right to stop someone just because they are part of an ethnic group.

I understand that "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure" for these matters, but I am NOT for "racial profiling". There's got to be a better way.

[kf6rdn]

So these guys have good gun control, like those on that OTHER thread. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KC2HJN]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,12:18)]"Racial Profiling"? Would that include "DWB" (Driving While Black)? How about "DWD"(Driving while Dutch) which would include my family? My point is that "racial profiling" has a lot a room for abuse. Just because someone, is black, muslim, Native Ameican, or Hispanic, doesn't give any law enforement official the right to stop someone just because they are part of an ethnic group.

I understand that "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure" for these matters, but I am NOT for "racial profiling". There's got to be a better way.
That depends.

Example:

First a little backround:
I am white. My neighborhood is mostly white. About 12 years ago I was the victim of a carjacking. The guys (2) came up to each side of my work van with guns drawn and told me (driver) and my partner to get in the back. We complied and they drove off with us. They though we had a large sum of money in the van (we used to make runs to the bank for my company with upwards of 100,000 dollars in cash, but no longer did that at the time), and well to make a long story short, I'm still alive so nothing serious really happened.

We went to the precinct to report what happened and the officer asked for a description. I told him they were white and he said "oh, good'. I was curious as to why he would say that and he said he would show me something.

He took me to where they keep the books with all the mugshots. There were two large bookcases with maybe 8 or so shelves each and holding close to 100 books each. The one on the left was for non-white and the right one was for white. The one on the left was nearly full with books, the one on the right had maybe eight or ten books.

Now, as I told you, my neighborhood is mostly white. Why the big difference in the amount of white vs. non white commiting crimes?

Do you think if you were an officer in my area you might have a higher suspicion of non-whites. No because they are not white, not because of racism, but because that is what you see all around you?

[KG6JTB]

The Brit's have the finest investigation techniques and police in the world. Scotland Yard has proved again that it knows how to get their man (or terrorists).

We should take notes.

Dave
KG6JTB

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,12:18)]My point is that "racial profiling" has a lot a room for abuse. Just because someone, is black, muslim, Native Ameican, or Hispanic, doesn't give any law enforement official the right to stop someone just because they are part of an ethnic group.

I understand that "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure" for these matters, but I am NOT for "racial profiling". There's got to be a better way.
If you were a cop on a subway with orders to search every fifth passenger you count and thereby search a male anglo college student, a 28 year old black business woman, an elderly latino retiree, a 50-something anglo businessman, and a 71 year old Italian lady, and because your statistical headcount makes you ignore two young adult Arab males, what have you done to insure the saftey of the passengers you're there to protect?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

If your car has been hijacked by a Mexican male, would you want to see the cops checking out anglos and blacks?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

England, Spain, and the US have been targeted by male Arab extremists. #Who the hell do you want the authorities to target - Dutch immigrants?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

I can't think of anything more fundamental to police work than deductive reasoning, and that would suggest their efforts be focused on the most likely suspects.

And they would be ___.




WA5KRP
Texas

[W5HTW]

One of the facts we in America absolutely cannot mention is that stereotyping is based on truth. It's that simple. No one sat down and said, "Hey, let's pretend all Chinamen run laundries." Or: "Italians are in the Mafia." Or: "Blacks on foot in a White neighborhood are up to no good." All that, and much more, was based on the reailties of the time.

Today many of those realities have changed. Blacks LIVE in White neighborhoods, and if they want to go for a late-evening walk, it is their right to do so without being harassed.

Chinese folks run computer stores, restaurants, trucking companies, security firms.

Literally a dozen or more Italians are NOT in the Mafia.

(OK, maybe three dozen. I'm kidding.)

But the point is, those stereotypes were based on fact, though the facts may no longer be as true. Yet, we all find profiling works, over and over again.

Example: During normal security on Amtrak, two well-dressed Latinos are traveling with no luggage except one large suitcase. They paid for their tickets with cash. They are enroute from Chicago to El Paso. Yes, security is going to take a hard look at them, monitor them. They are doing nothing illegal, but it is likely that suitcase contains a large amount of cash for a drug buy.

That is profiling. And it works, consistently.

A state patrol officer is driving along Interstate 40. He spots a van with Arizona license plates. It appears to be heavily loaded. The driver may be White. There are two Hispanics in the front seat. The van is well under the speed limit. Following along, the officer notes the driver appears to be paying more attention to his mirror than to the road ahead. The van pulls off at an exit and parks, but no one gets out.

Is it full of illegal aliens? Probably. The officer will now start to look for an error, like failing to signal a lane change, or crossing the white dividing line, or a brake light that isn't working. Anything to give him a chance to stop and ID the driver.

Profiling? It works. It works because it is based upon experience, not prejudice.

And it works on White folks, too, and just as well. Four white men in a car, moving slowly in a residential area. Doesn't matter if the area is White, Hispanic, Black or otherwise. What matters is the conduct of the four men, and their appearance. Sure, they could be looking for a specific address. Or they could be looking for a home that is unprotected, to burglarize. Or a walking woman to kidnap and rape.

Behavior patterns in all races and cultures can lead to attention by the law. And it works.

Doesn't matter your color. Go to the airport and start hanging around. Have no apparent goal. Keep wandering around. You don't even need luggage. Sooner or later someone is going to notice you and suspect you are up to no good. Maybe you aren't. But you will draw attention. It could be you are looking for apparently well-heeled people as pickpocket victims. Or selecting women you'd like to rape. Or looking for a good place to leave a bomb.

Sorry. Profiling does work, whether it's racial, cultural, attitude, driving, and being TOO good in what would not be a real good situation - like the men on the Amtrak.

Which am I most likely to report to authorities? A 65 year old or so White woman with a suitcase and a tote bag, standing near the escalator in the airport terminal and looking bewildered? Or even angry? Or an Arabic-looking man with a cardboard box wrapped in string and tape, and standing around a dark corner of the building, trying to appear invisible?

Ed

[kd5rpo]

In this incident there was no need for profiling. The subject was wearing a large winter coat in the middle of summer, had a backpack on, and bolted when requested to comply by the British security police.

Good shooting.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ July 22 2005,13:37)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,12:18)]My point is that "racial profiling" has a lot a room for abuse. Just because someone, is black, muslim, Native Ameican, or Hispanic, doesn't give any law enforement official the right to stop someone just because they are part of an ethnic group.

I understand that "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure" for these matters, but I am NOT for "racial profiling". There's got to be a better way.
If you were a cop on a subway with orders to search every fifth passenger you count and thereby search a male anglo college student, a 28 year old black business woman, an elderly latino retiree, a 50-something anglo businessman, and a 71 year old Italian lady, and because your statistical headcount makes you ignore two young adult Arab males, what have you done to insure the saftey of the passengers you're there to protect?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

If your car has been hijacked by a Mexican male, would you want to see the cops checking out anglos and blacks?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

England, Spain, and the US have been targeted by male Arab extremists. #Who the hell do you want the authorities to target - Dutch immigrants?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

I can't think of anything more fundamental to police work than deductive reasoning, and that would suggest their efforts be focused on the most likely suspects.

And they would be ___.




WA5KRP
Texas
Danny,

So we target whole ethnic communities. We let our law enforcement people harass perfectly innocent people at will. Detain them just because their ancestry isn't #of the "right flavor". Is that what you are getting at? Deja vous, didn't we help defeat a country like that during WWII? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KW4MW]

W5HTWQuote[/b] ] Profiling does work, whether it's racial, cultural, attitude, driving, and being TOO good in what would not be a real good situation -
Unless you have an idiot like Chief Moose who, in regard to the DC snipers, absolutely refused to believe eye witness reports and insisted that the sniper was an angry white man (redneck).

But smart cops can eliminate a lot of suspects with profiling. #If I'm stopped and questioned because I meet a certain profile that would be fine with me.

[KC2HJN]

I think 'target' is the wrong word. Suspect would be better. Almost the same, but not. If a particular ethnic group is consistently caught committing a particular crime, then would it not be good to keep an eye on people of that same group to try to prevent that particular crime from occurring? The only other options are to stop EVERYBODY, which would be a waste of time, money and resources or NOBODY, so as to be politicaly correct and try please everyone. (except the ones that get a crime committed against them)

There is no easy answer, but the police must act upon the information they have. If arab men are setting off bombs in the subway, why would they look at non arabs to try and catch bombers?

One other thing. I don't know how it works in England, but here in NYC if a cop tells me to stop and I run away, I fully expect to be chased and, if caught, most likely catch a beating. If I pose a threat to the officer I fully expect him to defend himself. I would do the same if it were me.

[n7rjd]

Quote[/b] (KC2HJN @ July 22 2005,04:57)]Now, as I told you, my neighborhood is mostly white. Why the big difference in the amount of white vs. non white commiting crimes?
How about because "non white" is a broad and general term that is sure to include a much larger percentage of the population. I am sure these books and pictures were collected over a larger area than your neighborhod. If your neighborhood alone has that many mug shots I would suggest moving before that crime wave causes you further problems.

Having more mug shot books on non white than on white can also be used to add to the argument of policing tactics being unfair to minorities.

Many people can look at the same thing and see it many different ways. Being able to see things from your side of the fence and express your views as you see them is a right and part of what makes this country unique and great. Racial profiling is part of what shows that no matter how great this country is it is not perfect and there is always room for improvement.

Profiling due to known actions or affiliations with organizations or groups who have shown their agenda to be to destroy or bring to it's knees peacable nations would be a good thing.

Profiling due to national origin, color of skin or religon alone is nothing but wrong and has no place in a free society.

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,17:12)]Danny,

So we target whole ethnic communities. We let our law enforcement people harass perfectly innocent people at will. Detain them just because their ancestry isn't #of the "right flavor". Is that what you are getting at? Deja vous, didn't we help defeat a country like that during WWII? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
I am completely sympathetic to your noble premise, but - YES. To draw a parallel to the Jewish pogram of WW-II is faulty logic. The Jews never committed acts of terrorism in Germany, and for that matter, in any other European country. They were not seditionists. They were peaceful citizens until Hitler made them struggle for their very survival.

There is NO comparison.

As for targeting Arab communities - that's where the terrorists come from. They brought it to us. Not the other way around. OF COURSE WE TARGET PEOPLE OF ARAB DESCENT - it wasn't the folks from Lithuania or Sicily that flew planes into the WTC.

I don't like it more than anybody else - things are going to get ugly - hell, they already have. Sympathy and compassion is in short supply about now. The Arab-American community should raise their voice against these monsters and turn them in. So far it hasn't happened. As it is now, they will find ever increasing hostility with each act of terrorism whether it's here or in any other Western country.


WA5KRP
Texas

[KB9ZLB]

Okay, I have something to say. No, it may not make any sense, but this is coming from a college student mind you. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I feel that grouping individuals together into what you call "racial profiling" is extremely wrong. It's as bad as stereotyping. Oh, wait. It is sterio typing. Just with a more sophisticated duo of words. Am I correct?

Now, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I am a 20 year old white female in a college. So I deal with reverse discimination and all that other jazz every day. (No, I am not one for reverse discrimination. I am totally against it.) I have friends of many a different background, whether it is religious, by the color of their skin, or nationality. Now, back to the subject at hand.

Grouping individuals is extremely wrong and dangerous. As far as we know, an anglo could very well be a terrorist, just as much so as the muslim walking down the street. Okay, lets rewind right there. Are we saying there are no anglo muslims? Hmm...something seems wrong in that picture.

Oh, and something else. In my church, we have an ex-muslim. He is the kindest of men. So polite and considerate of others. Is he a terrorist? No. He is a normal American citizen. Just like you (if you are an American citizen) and me.

So why do we group them together? Just because of their color? Just because of their accent? Just because they look different or act different or...heaven forbid...might be a different religion?

Come on people. Not every muslim is a terrorist. Not every Brit like to eat crumpets with their tea. We need to quite profiling and stereo-typing. It's wrong. And dangerous.

Why is it dangerous? Because while we are stereo-typing, or racially profiling, we may be missing the real terrorists, just because "they don't fit the profile". Think outside the box, people.

--Okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry if this made no sense at all, but it made perfectly good sense to me.--

[K9STH]

DLG:

As for having more "mug" books of minorities than Anglo "mug" books is, in most communities, just a matter of fact. It is unfortunate, but minorities commit not only a larger percentage of crimes than their percentage of the population as a whole, but in many areas the largest percentage of total crime.

This is not to be taken as discriminatory in nature but as a proven fact. There are many reasons that the percentage of criminals is higher in the minority communities. However, when "push comes to shove" minorities, in general, commit more crimes.

I have friends who are minority (blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc.). There is even a black family that has lived on my block for almost 25 years. However, they are "upstanding" citizens and do not go around doing things that are against the law.

Glen, K9STH

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ July 22 2005,09:26)]#Hats off to the Brits. #Give 'em hell mates. #Let's see some of that here in the good ol' USA. #Isn't about time for a little "racial profiling".
Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.
-- Judges 12-6



Cortland
KA5S

[KA8NCR]

You mean this guy? Says nothing about him packing explosives. Nor being a terrorist. Seems to me like an Asian who might not have understood that he was supposed to have stopped.



http://www.cnn.com/2005....ex.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/22/london.eyewitness/index.html)

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (ka5s @ July 22 2005,20:26)]Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.
-- Judges 12-6
Cortland,


You're good. #REEEEEEEEAL good. #Now, do you know the secret handshake? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif


WA5KRP
Impressed, Texas

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 22 2005,20:50)]You mean this guy? #Says nothing about him packing explosives. #Nor being a terrorist. #Seems to me like an Asian who might not have understood that he was supposed to have stopped.

#
I don't speak Italian. #But if some uniformed cops yelled at me on a street in Italy, the LAST thing I'd do is try to run away from them.

Please consider the enormous stress EVERYBODY is under in England. #IT IS THE WRONG TIME TO MESS WITH THE AUTHORITIES. #Clearly they are hell-bent to do their job. #Looking and acting suspicious is a bad idea.

And if you were the cop in this situation, considering the hell that's been unleashed on your community, how would YOU react to a guy dressed inappropriately with baggy clothes that could be hiding explosives? #Is your denial mechanism at work and you'll choose to believe it's all in your imagination? #Is that how you would serve and protect? ? ?



WA5KRP
Texas

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (KB9ZLB @ July 22 2005,17:47)]Okay, I have something to say. No, it may not make any sense, but this is coming from a college student mind you. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I feel that grouping individuals together into what you call "racial profiling" is extremely wrong. It's as bad as stereotyping. Oh, wait. It is sterio typing. Just with a more sophisticated duo of words. Am I correct?

Now, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I am a 20 year old white female in a college. So I deal with reverse discimination and all that other jazz every day. (No, I am not one for reverse discrimination. I am totally against it.) I have friends of many a different background, whether it is religious, by the color of their skin, or nationality. Now, back to the subject at hand.

Grouping individuals is extremely wrong and dangerous. As far as we know, an anglo could very well be a terrorist, just as much so as the muslim walking down the street. Okay, lets rewind right there. Are we saying there are no anglo muslims? Hmm...something seems wrong in that picture.

Oh, and something else. In my church, we have an ex-muslim. He is the kindest of men. So polite and considerate of others. Is he a terrorist? No. He is a normal American citizen. Just like you (if you are an American citizen) and me.

So why do we group them together? Just because of their color? Just because of their accent? Just because they look different or act different or...heaven forbid...might be a different religion?

Come on people. Not every muslim is a terrorist. Not every Brit like to eat crumpets with their tea. We need to quite profiling and stereo-typing. It's wrong. And dangerous.

Why is it dangerous? Because while we are stereo-typing, or racially profiling, we may be missing the real terrorists, just because "they don't fit the profile". Think outside the box, people.

--Okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry if this made no sense at all, but it made perfectly good sense to me.--
how about using a darker color for your text so that it is easier to read ?

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (KB9ZLB @ July 22 2005,19:47)]Come on people. Not every muslim is a terrorist.
Can you spot a muslim walking down the street with any degree of certainty? Of course not.

Western society is being confronted by Arab terrorists. These people are not Indian, Polynesian, Aborigine, Asian, African, or Eskimo.....they are ARABS.

What's so hard about understanding that? Do you want political correctness to blind the forces sworn to protect us?



WA5KRP
Texas

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ July 22 2005,19:08)]Please consider the enormous stress EVERYBODY is under in England. #IT IS THE WRONG TIME TO MESS WITH THE AUTHORITIES. #Clearly they are hell-bent to do their job. #Looking and acting suspicious is a bad idea.
This shooting is (or should be) quite understandable. It may -- they're not saying -- have been prompted by an actual and immediate threat to life, or maybe they just thought he was packing a bomb. # I wondered, myself, if perhaps he simply had a hundred wristwatches under that coat. "Psst! I say, would you care to purchase a watch?" #But this is, as you say, a very bad time to disregard law enforcement directions. #



Cortland
KA5S

[KC2HJN]

Quote[/b] ]How about because "non white" is a broad and general term that is sure to include a much larger percentage of the population. I am sure these books and pictures were collected over a larger area than your neighborhod. If your neighborhood alone has that many mug shots I would suggest moving before that crime wave causes you further problems.

By non white I refer to black & puerto rican. That is who surrounds my neighborhood. An overwhelming percentage of the crimes committed in my white neighborhood are by non whites. By your thinking the amount of mug shots should at most be 3 times. It's not, it's nearly 10 times.

Quote[/b] ]Having more mug shot books on non white than on white can also be used to add to the argument of policing tactics being unfair to minorities.

That is an excuse I've heard over and over again that holds no water. I have been harrassed by the cops more than once. I've been stopped for looking suspicious. I've been cornered by police dogs, etc... and I am white. The difference is that I wasn't up to go good so the cops let me go without incident. The cops don't arrest people on a whim, it's a waste of their time and if for no other reason that they don't want to do the unnecessary paperwork.

Quote[/b] ]Many people can look at the same thing and see it many different ways. Being able to see things from your side of the fence and express your views as you see them is a right and part of what makes this country unique and great. Racial profiling is part of what shows that no matter how great this country is it is not perfect and there is always room for improvement.

Their is no other way to see it unless you are trying real hard to excuse people for committing crimes. As for the rest, I agree. Things are not perfect. If they were, criminals would carry a big sign that said 'criminal'. Unfortunatly they don't so the police must do the best they can to try to figure out who is up to no good.

Quote[/b] ]Profiling due to known actions or affiliations with organizations or groups who have shown their agenda to be to destroy or bring to it's knees peacable nations would be a good thing.

I thought that is what we were talking about. ''Profiling due to known actions''.

Quote[/b] ]Profiling due to national origin, color of skin or religon alone is nothing but wrong and has no place in a free society.

I'll say it again. If a particular group of a particular national origin, color of skin or religion is known to show a pattern of behavior, why would you look at different group from a different national origin, etc.. to try to stop said behavior? It's illogical and counerproductive.

Now, don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm NOT for giving the police freedom to do whatever they want. I'm NOT for giving them the right to stop anybody for NO reason. For instance, here in NYC the police commissioner just recently stated that the police now have the right to stop anyone at any time randomly and search them and their bag, knapsack etc... I say BS. This really pisses me off and I'll probably have a serious problem complying with that if it happens to me. But, if your behaving in a manner that gives the police reason to suspect you and you get stopped, crying 'racial profiling' is just an excuse to draw attention away from your suspicious behavior and weasel out of whatever it is you were up to.

[KC2HJN]

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ July 22 2005,21:15)]Quote[/b] (KB9ZLB @ July 22 2005,17:47)]Okay, I have something to say. No, it may not make any sense, but this is coming from a college student mind you. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I feel that grouping individuals together into what you call "racial profiling" is extremely wrong. It's as bad as stereotyping. Oh, wait. It is sterio typing. Just with a more sophisticated duo of words. Am I correct?

Now, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I am a 20 year old white female in a college. So I deal with reverse discimination and all that other jazz every day. (No, I am not one for reverse discrimination. I am totally against it.) I have friends of many a different background, whether it is religious, by the color of their skin, or nationality. Now, back to the subject at hand.

Grouping individuals is extremely wrong and dangerous. As far as we know, an anglo could very well be a terrorist, just as much so as the muslim walking down the street. Okay, lets rewind right there. Are we saying there are no anglo muslims? Hmm...something seems wrong in that picture.

Oh, and something else. In my church, we have an ex-muslim. He is the kindest of men. So polite and considerate of others. Is he a terrorist? No. He is a normal American citizen. Just like you (if you are an American citizen) and me.

So why do we group them together? Just because of their color? Just because of their accent? Just because they look different or act different or...heaven forbid...might be a different religion?

Come on people. Not every muslim is a terrorist. Not every Brit like to eat crumpets with their tea. We need to quite profiling and stereo-typing. It's wrong. And dangerous.

Why is it dangerous? Because while we are stereo-typing, or racially profiling, we may be missing the real terrorists, just because "they don't fit the profile". Think outside the box, people.

--Okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry if this made no sense at all, but it made perfectly good sense to me.--
how about using a darker color for your text so that it is easier to read ?
Now that's not politically correct. Every color has just as much right to be used as the next. You wouldn't want someone to descriminate against one color in their posts just for the silly reason that you cant see it to read the post, now would you? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


On a more serious note. To the original poster. I am curious where you live and go to college. When you get out in the real world and see that everything is not all flowers and rainbows, I wonder if you'll still have they same attitude. I would LOVE to take people with your attitude for a drive some time through some areas around here and maybe leave you there for a few hours. (a few hours is long enough because it's unlikely you would survive much longer that that unharmed) Then we'll see if you still have the same attitude.

BTW, that's NOT racism. That is a fact. When I go to sleep at night I hear gunfire on a regular basis. I'll let you guess who it is that's shooting each other.

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,04:18)]"Racial Profiling"? Would that include "DWB" (Driving While Black)? How about "DWD"(Driving while Dutch) which would include my family? My point is that "racial profiling" has a lot a room for abuse. Just because someone, is black, muslim, Native Ameican, or Hispanic, doesn't give any law enforement official the right to stop someone just because they are part of an ethnic group.

I understand that "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure" for these matters, but I am NOT for "racial profiling". There's got to be a better way.
Not sure if the comment was tongue in cheek or not... However, I have heard this used by someone who said they were being profiled. The sad part is this individual was clocked by radar doing 37 in a 25 zone with homes nearby and kids playing near the street.

The guy argued with my partner that he was stopping him because he was black. My partner responded professionally and stated that if he saw his radar gun and took a look at the speed limit posted then how was he racially profiling. He didn't know the person driving was black until he walked up to the car.

He tried to fight the ticket too, but it stuck. This profiling crap is just another way people in society try to get out of being held accountable for their actions by police and the law. Frankly, it's pathetic...

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (ka5s @ July 22 2005,14:50)]Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ July 22 2005,19:08)]Please consider the enormous stress EVERYBODY is under in England. #IT IS THE WRONG TIME TO MESS WITH THE AUTHORITIES. #Clearly they are hell-bent to do their job. #Looking and acting suspicious is a bad idea.
This shooting is (or should be) quite understandable. It may -- they're not saying -- have been prompted by an actual and immediate threat to life, or maybe they just thought he was packing a bomb. # I wondered, myself, if perhaps he simply had a hundred wristwatches under that coat. "Psst! I say, would you care to purchase a watch?" #But this is, as you say, a very bad time to disregard law enforcement directions. #



Cortland
KA5S
When members of my unit were in Saudi during the first few days of OIF, we were instructed to be very cautious of anyone wearing coats and other big overgarments in over 100 temps. There was a good chance they had explosives strapped to their bodies. They told us if anyone like this did not heed our instructions and made a move towards us or others nearby in a threatening manner, then we had orders to shoot them.

That's not racial profiling, that's a deadly force directive we have in the Air Force to protect yourself and others from serious injury or death.

[KB9ZLB]

Quote[/b] (KC2HJN @ July 23 2005,06:17)]Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ July 22 2005,21:15)]Quote[/b] (KB9ZLB @ July 22 2005,17:47)]Okay, I have something to say. No, it may not make any sense, but this is coming from a college student mind you. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I feel that grouping individuals together into what you call "racial profiling" is extremely wrong. It's as bad as stereotyping. Oh, wait. It is sterio typing. Just with a more sophisticated duo of words. Am I correct?

Now, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I am a 20 year old white female in a college. So I deal with reverse discimination and all that other jazz every day. (No, I am not one for reverse discrimination. I am totally against it.) I have friends of many a different background, whether it is religious, by the color of their skin, or nationality. Now, back to the subject at hand.

Grouping individuals is extremely wrong and dangerous. As far as we know, an anglo could very well be a terrorist, just as much so as the muslim walking down the street. Okay, lets rewind right there. Are we saying there are no anglo muslims? Hmm...something seems wrong in that picture.

Oh, and something else. In my church, we have an ex-muslim. He is the kindest of men. So polite and considerate of others. Is he a terrorist? No. He is a normal American citizen. Just like you (if you are an American citizen) and me.

So why do we group them together? Just because of their color? Just because of their accent? Just because they look different or act different or...heaven forbid...might be a different religion?

Come on people. Not every muslim is a terrorist. Not every Brit like to eat crumpets with their tea. We need to quite profiling and stereo-typing. It's wrong. And dangerous.

Why is it dangerous? Because while we are stereo-typing, or racially profiling, we may be missing the real terrorists, just because "they don't fit the profile". Think outside the box, people.

--Okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry if this made no sense at all, but it made perfectly good sense to me.--
how about using a darker color for your text so that it is easier to read ?
Now that's not politically correct. Every color has just as much right to be used as the next. You wouldn't want someone to descriminate against one color in their posts just for the silly reason that you cant see it to read the post, now would you? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


On a more serious note. To the original poster. I am curious where you live and go to college. When you get out in the real world and see that everything is not all flowers and rainbows, I wonder if you'll still have they same attitude. I would LOVE to take people with your attitude for a drive some time through some areas around here and maybe leave you there for a few hours. (a few hours is long enough because it's unlikely you would survive much longer that that unharmed) Then we'll see if you still have the same attitude.

BTW, that's NOT racism. That is a fact. When I go to sleep at night I hear gunfire on a regular basis. I'll let you guess who it is that's shooting each other.
Well, I'm from the southside of Indianapolis and go to the University of Indianapolis. Yes, I know I'm from the "good part of town", but I still feel that racial profiling in incorrect. I disagree with it. When the police profile, they profile people, not cultures. (If I am incorrect on that, please tell me.) Just because one is anglo does not give them permission to profile against let's say african-americans. Just becuase one is african-american does not give them the right to profile against anglos. You get the picture.

These are just my beliefs.

Oh, and I don't see the world as Quote[/b] ]all flowers and rainbows, either. I suffer from manic-depression. Trust me, the world is a cruel place and I recognize that fully. I know that not everyone cares about everyone else. I know that the world really doesn't care about me. It doesn't care if I succeed or not. Just as long as I don't get in anyone else's way. I understand that fact of life. But I'm also willing to fight it. Just as this topic. I'm willing to fight against racial profiling. Just becuase someone is a different race, religion, or whatever doesn't mean they aren't human or think like us. So why profile via race? There must be other ways to do this.

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (KB9ZLB @ July 23 2005,01:54)]These are just my beliefs.

Oh, and I don't see the world as Quote[/b] ]all flowers and rainbows, either. I suffer from manic-depression. Trust me, the world is a cruel place and I recognize that fully. I know that not everyone cares about everyone else. #I know that the world really doesn't care about me. It doesn't care if I succeed or not. Just as long as I don't get in anyone else's way. I understand that fact of life. But I'm also willing to fight it. Just as this topic. I'm willing to fight against racial profiling. Just becuase someone is a different race, religion, or whatever doesn't mean they aren't human or think like us. So why profile via race? There must be other ways to do this.
I see what she is saying...

However, ZLB, do you think it's also wrong for people to scream RP just so they can try and weasel out of being held accountable for their actions?

I see that once in a while when I stop someone for flagrant violations. Not because of their skin color or culture, but because they violated the law.

It drives me nuts as a military cop for people to scream victimization because they don't want to face the consequences of bad choices they willingly made.

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ July 22 2005,19:44)]Western society is being confronted by Arab terrorists. #These people are not Indian, Polynesian, Aborigine, Asian, African, or Eskimo.....they are ARABS.
Interesting thought.

Eskimos? Might have had a couple of armed rebels, up in the Frozen North. Have to ask the Canadians. Indians... Geronimo comes to mind. As to the turbaned kind, yeah, there are Indian terrorists, all right, Hindu and Moslem both.

Ditto Africans. Sudanese are most definitely African. Half of Nigeria is Moslem; a Nigerian co-worker at a former employer was an imam at his mosque in Sonoma county and he was purely African. Polynesians ? There are more Moslems in the non-Arab country of Indonesa than any Arab one, and some of them are Polynesian. Then there are Philippino terrorists, who certainly aren't Arab.

And by confining ourselves to Arabs we completely ignore Persians. Which IMO is a bad idea even if they don't run around with OBL's bunch.

So far, of course, we are just discussing anti-Western motives. Gets even more interesting if we don't.

"Have you or any member of your family ever belonged to an organization seeking to overthrow the United States government by force?"
"Yes, my father was in the Nazi party during WW2."
"Thank you Governor, I think that will be enough."

So much for humor.

As it happens, if someone is an al Quaeda leader, he is almost certainly Arab. OBL's people are Arab, and they distrust others. This is how a cell-type organization maintains security; it excludes those its members do not know intimately. However, that doesn't mean they won't USE others.

Remember, Carlos the Jackal (http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/700) is no Arab.

Cortland
KA5S

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ July 22 2005,09:26)]How nice it is to hear of a situation handled so summarily, and with professional precision. #The British Security forces, in a country which banded guns for police until recently, do a superb job on todays terrorist. #Police fired five shots at a terrorist in heavy winter coat and rucksack, who ran from police and refused to comply. #It is my understanding he was already seen laying on his back and pushing a button. #By standers heard a click and a pop. Each shot the Police fired, hit the Muslim Terrorist # squarely in the head. #5 for 5 .Where did these guys learn to shot like that? #Hats off to the Brits. #Give 'em hell mates. #Let's see some of that here in the good ol' USA. #Isn't about time for a little "racial profiling".
Shot man not connected to bombing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm)

[KE7DFP]

Quote[/b] (ka5s @ July 23 2005,10:10)]Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ July 22 2005,09:26)]How nice it is to hear of a situation handled so summarily, and with professional precision. #The British Security forces, in a country which banded guns for police until recently, do a superb job on todays terrorist. #Police fired five shots at a terrorist in heavy winter coat and rucksack, who ran from police and refused to comply. #It is my understanding he was already seen laying on his back and pushing a button. #By standers heard a click and a pop. Each shot the Police fired, hit the Muslim Terrorist # squarely in the head. #5 for 5 .Where did these guys learn to shot like that? #Hats off to the Brits. #Give 'em hell mates. #Let's see some of that here in the good ol' USA. #Isn't about time for a little "racial profiling".
Shot man not connected to bombing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm)
Yes, even the earliest reports made it clear that this man was not connected to the bombings of the day before. #The man was, in fact, connected to terrorist suspects. #If you read your article you will see it says, the man was trailed from a house they had under surviellance, to the train he was shot on. #He was shot after refusing police , jumping a turnstile, and running onto a train full of people. #The number of shots was to insure he was completely unable to activate an explosive device, should he have one. #We still have not heard if he did have one. #Regardless, the police have no choice in this situation in #present day London. #The police have shoot to kill orders at present.

[KE7DFP]

I've already replied to this in several times under the other post: Man not connected to bombings

[VA7SST]

Evidently it's now a capital crime to dress in unseasonal clothing....What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Next up: DEATH SQUADS--wait for it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KE7DFP]

Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,08:33)]Evidently it's now a capital crime to dress in unseasonal clothing....What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Next up: # DEATH SQUADS--wait for it! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I would stop and explain myself like any rational citizen. #I would say, "OK, look, I'm just going to work, sure, check my bags." # I would move real slow, comply, then say, "that's perfectly alright officer, I know your just doing your job--and we all sure appreciate it". Then I would go about my day. That would be MY responsibility. #I SURE wouldn't run from the police and jump a train, one day after another round of train bombings. As they pointed guns at me and said Stop, Police! #Stop, Police! #Stop #Police! That's a good way to get shot. #He knew why there were police everywhere. Death Squads? already here, and coming to a #city near you, soon!!!. #Maybe then you'll be glad to have a few policemen around protecting you, who aren't playing games.

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ July 26 2005,09:06)]Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,08:33)]Evidently it's now a capital crime to dress in unseasonal clothing....What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Next up: # DEATH SQUADS--wait for it! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I would stop and explain myself like any rational citizen. #I would say, "OK, look, I'm just going to work, sure, check my bags." # I would move real slow, comply, then say, "that's perfectly alright officer, I know your just doing your job--and we all sure appreciate it". Then I would go about my day. That would be MY responsibility. #I SURE wouldn't run from the police and jump a train, one day after another round of train bombings. As they pointed guns at me and said Stop, Police! #Stop, Police! #Stop #Police! That's a good way to get shot. #He knew why there were police everywhere. Death Squads? already here, and coming to a #city near you, soon!!!. #Maybe then you'll be glad to have a few policemen around protecting you, who aren't playing games.
Just out of curiosity, how would you know they were "officers"? Given they were in plain clothes?

[VA7SST]

Governments and their agents can always find ways to justify the murders they commit.

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,09:33)]Governments and their agents can always find ways to justify the murders they commit.
As does dfp.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,11:33)]Evidently it's now a capital crime to dress in unseasonal clothing....What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Next up: DEATH SQUADS--wait for it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I hate to say this, but anybody who is from the South and comes to the Northeast in the Summer will wear a jacket. 98 degress and 90% humidity here may be hot to us, but even I felt cool after being down there. Wearing a jacket might look strange, but it shouldn't be a cause for alarm. That's probably what this guy was doing. God knows if he knew English.

[K6UEY]

The more DEATH SQUADS we have the FEWER terrorists and terrorist wannabees we will have !
That is a PROVEN FACT!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[G7HEU]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 26 2005,13:40)]Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,11:33)]Evidently it's now a capital crime to dress in unseasonal clothing....What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Next up: # DEATH SQUADS--wait for it! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I hate to say this, but anybody who is from the South and comes to the Northeast in the Summer will wear a jacket. #98 degress and 90% humidity here may be hot to us, but even I felt cool after being down there. #Wearing a jacket might look strange, but it shouldn't be a cause for alarm. #That's probably what this guy was doing. #God knows if he knew English.
We now know he was shot seven times to the head and once to the shoulder.

He did speak good English.

He was not here illegally

He had been here for some years.

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 26 2005,16:11)]The more DEATH SQUADS we have the FEWER terrorists and terrorist wannabees we will have !
That is a PROVEN FACT!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I can't even believe you said that, and the only reason I am even allowing myselt to respond to it is so we have a record of it for as long as this board exists.

That sounds like something straight out of WWII Germany.

I would ask you to supply your numbers and stats, but I don't even want you to respond to this.

[G7HEU]

Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,08:33)]What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Answer:

Stop pretty rapidly. If they were robbers I'd give them my credit cards, wallet, watch and money. I'd plead with them to keep my wedding ring but I wouldn't make my wife a widow over it.

Police or otherwise, if a bunch of guys pulled their guns on me and I didn't have one, ( already 'pulled' and cocked), I wouldn't try to run.

Steve.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,10:33)]Evidently it's now a capital crime to dress in unseasonal clothing....What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Next up: # DEATH SQUADS--wait for it! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Just pray that some of these plain clothes cops don't go to hamfests. There wouldn't be anyone left alive.

[G7HEU]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ July 26 2005,14:28)]Quote[/b] (VA7SST @ July 26 2005,10:33)]Evidently it's now a capital crime to dress in unseasonal clothing....What would you do if a bunch of guys in plain-clothes pulled guns on you & you had done nothing wrong???
Next up: # DEATH SQUADS--wait for it! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Just pray that some of these plain clothes cops don't go to hamfests. #There wouldn't be anyone left alive.
Hello FAP,

I thought you'd, um, gone away.

Steve.

[W5MJL]

There was a misunderstanding, but all is well as you can see.

[N3ATS]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 26 2005,17:11)]The more DEATH SQUADS we have the FEWER terrorists and terrorist wannabees we will have !
That is a PROVEN FACT!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
You're right. Take Israel for example. Terrorist free.

[KE7DFP]

Why don't you guys get this outraged when someone kidnaps a poor, defenseless, old woman? # Tell her for days they're going to cut her head off. #Video her terror, sobs, and fear. Then actually saw her head off? AFTER she's helped the Iraqi people? #Huh ? #Ah.......O.K., #I see what this is really about.

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ July 26 2005,17:09)]Why don't you guys get this outraged when someone kidnaps a poor, defenseless, old woman? Tell her for days they're going to cut her head off. Video her terror, sobs, and fear. Then actually saw her head off? AFTER she's helped the Iraqi people? Huh ? Ah.......O.K., I see what this is really about.
No, you really don't see it...

Everyone IS outraged by their actions... no doubt about it...

BUT...
THEY are terrorists, and there is little our expression of outrage can do but to give them more ammo... Then they know they are getting to us...
AND...
I sure CAN express my outrage at our own actions when they parallel those of the terrorists.
AND...
My 'grading criteria' for US is a whole lot stiffer than for THEM... I'm not sure they know better... WE DO... and still we persist...

We must not lower ourselves to their way of doing things... We must preserve the rights of all people... If the 'other side' does not do that, well, that's on them, not on us... If we are to be believable to the rest of the world then we have got to stop acting like scared little children, striking out any shadow, and start practicing what we preach, that is equality for all and a presumption of innocence.

[K6UEY]

Show the World "We care" take a terrorist to lunch !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[N6WK]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 26 2005,22:11)]The more DEATH SQUADS we have the FEWER terrorists and terrorist wannabees we will have !
That is a PROVEN FACT!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Oh My God,
Himmler is still alive. What a TERRIBLE thing to say, even for you.

The Terrorists make up the Death Squads!.

GORDON

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 26 2005,14:11)]The more DEATH SQUADS we have the FEWER terrorists and terrorist wannabees we will have !
That is a PROVEN FACT!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
where is this 'fact' proven uey? give us a link to back up your bs. or are you just making up stuff again?

looney tunes!!

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,10:18)]"Racial Profiling"? Would that include "DWB" (Driving While Black)? How about "DWD"(Driving while Dutch) which would include my family? My point is that "racial profiling" has a lot a room for abuse. Just because someone, is black, muslim, Native Ameican, or Hispanic, doesn't give any law enforement official the right to stop someone just because they are part of an ethnic group.

I understand that "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure" for these matters, but I am NOT for "racial profiling". There's got to be a better way.
Hey, I'm Dutch and proud of it too baby. As a matter of fact I made a pilgrimage to the old country where I found my roots, Gunter Kinte. That's right baby, it took years but I found old Gunter with his finger in a dike...

[K6UEY]

WDØCT,
What are you blind too GOOFY? Or is it you can't read,just ask the Brazillian,the system works,as they say in Base Ball 120%. Nice thing about it NO REPEAT OFFENDERS,like we have with our judicial system.

Where is your Modern 21st Century Spirit. Is that not the modern man credo,get some one else to do the killing and defend your rights!!

Where else can you do them the honor of 75 virgins and do public service at the same time. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K7KBN]

The Washington Post's Ombudsman, Michael Getler, says the paper left out crucial descriptive information about on-the-lam murder suspects because it wanted to avoid a "mass of innocent black men being 'suspects.'"

The Post's version of a story about a murder spree in Prince George's County read, "Police are looking for the gunmen, described as being in their late teens or early twenties, driving a newer-model tan or light-colored sedan."

But the news release put out by the local police department read, "The four suspects are described as black males, possibly late teens or early twenties. One of the suspects is about 5'7", 22-25 years old, wearing a gray long sleeve T-shirt, and cornrow hairstyle. The suspect's vehicle is described as a newer model tan or beige/light colored sedan."

"There is something about withholding information that the police make public that is troubling in a case such as this," Getler writes.

Here's the link to the article... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/23/AR2005072300740.html)

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 26 2005,20:32)]WDØCT,
What are you blind too GOOFY? Or is it you can't read,just ask the Brazillian,the system works,as they say in Base Ball 120%. Nice thing about it NO REPEAT OFFENDERS,like we have with our judicial system.

Where is your Modern 21st Century Spirit. Is that not the modern man credo,get some one else to do the killing and defend your rights!!

Where else can you do them the honor of 75 virgins and do public service at the same time. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
uey, you said Death Squada will result in fewer terrorists - a Proven Fact as you say.

I guess you are just too stupid to face the fact that we have the best death squads in the world in Iraq and yet there are more insurgents and terrorists attacking than ever before.

Splain that oh delusional one.

[K6UEY]

WDØCT,
Well every one is entitled to their opinion,if you would prefer that the insurgents be on your front porch,or maybe in your town,I think your neighbors might have their own impression to where they should be engaged.

IF they show up in your town be sure to invite your friends on QRZ and take the terrorists to a nice lunch,they will be so apprecative they might even kill you before they decapitate you!! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KE7DFP]

Do you think the Brazalian Police would shoot a suspect fleeing, who was told repeatedly to stop, and was being trailed from a drug king-pins house? Just wondering, thought maybe things are done a little different in Brazil.

[K6UEY]

KE7DFP,
I must have missed the news item,how many were killed in Brazil when terrorists set off a bomb in the subway ?

I'm quite confident if bombs are being set off in places where masses of people are getting killed the Brazillian Authorities would take on the same priorities they have in London.

This is a serious WAR,it is NOT some damn Video play game!! These people are dedicated to killing those in the Western world,even if they have to meet Allah to do it!!

[N6WK]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 27 2005,05:51)]I must have missed the news
As Usual...

Quote[/b] ] (K6UEY @ July 26 2005,22:11)
The more DEATH SQUADS we have the FEWER terrorists and terrorist wannabees we will have !
That is a PROVEN FACT!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Some of us are STILL waiting for those " Facts"
Another
"Made Up Fact perhaps??

remember as you said " If you make it up, it Is LYING"
( from a Previous thread but a Quote from UEY)

[K6UEY]

El DOPO hombre muy GORDO,
Since you don't have the slightest idea what this thread is about why not return your crainium to it's normal storage orffice!!

[N6WK]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 27 2005,06:03)]El DOPO hombre muy GORDO,
Since you don't have the slightest idea what this thread is about why not return your crainium to it's normal storage orffice!!
You Know what Wilbur,
This crap is getting really old very Quickly. Why don't you just Grow up and act like an Adult? You Attack me every chance you get. Why not just crawl back into your Hole up there in Sacramento ??

I am not sure what it is you have going on here on QRZ, but it is obvious with the crap you post to still be here, that it is something.

Now, Just Quit following me around and harrasing me, and STOP sending Emails to my friends threathing to " Take Care of me".

You really need to be Banned from the Internet all together.

The name is GORDON

"JO"

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (N6WK @ July 26 2005,22:13)]Now, Just Quit following me around and harrasing me, and STOP sending Emails to my friends threathing to " Take Care of me".
I'll take care of you Gordo...nnn I call it "Death by 1000 insults!

Seriously, the e-mail thing, if proven, is unacceptible. Someone has spoofed emails here before to intensify conflicts. That sort of thing is pretty sick.

73,
Dave/al2i

[N6WK]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 27 2005,06:35)]Quote[/b] (N6WK @ July 26 2005,22:13)]Now, Just Quit following me around and harrasing me, and STOP sending Emails to my friends threathing to " Take Care of me".
I'll take care of you Gordo...nnn I call it "Death by 1000 insults!

Seriously, the e-mail thing, if proven, is unacceptible. Someone has spoofed emails here before to intensify conflicts. That sort of thing is pretty sick.

73,
Dave/al2i
Dave,
Oh, I can Prove it Dave, I have a copy of it here on my Computer, and I have the OK from my friend it was sent to, to use it if Needed and he will verify that it was sent to him by UEY.
UEY is trying to paint me as the bad guy here, but truely, there was NO fights or problems on QRZ while he was gone for 65 days or so.
I can and will provide the Email to anyone that doesn't believe I am telling the truth.
But, on a better note,
Dave, Did you get my posts about having your Future Son in-law tell us what he needs after he gets there, so we can all send him some Packages? I am in on that deal as is Mike KA5FAP. We all want to help when and were we can. I am sure many others will get on board also.

Please keep us informed and send me his address in an Email once he gets there.
73,
gordon


Oh, New Avatar I see... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K6UEY]

El Hombre muy GORDO,
You have a serious problem beginning to show up,first you thought you controlled the topic and was in charge of who could post.

Then you expanded your illusion to take control of QRZ,now you are under the impression that you should control who uses the Internet,
It is called Illusions of Grandeur,one hallucinates being in charge,often this is found in short fat people with a inferiority complex and it is treatable from a professional,you should seek help,that abnormal hatred you harbor can also be treated by a professional.

If left untreated it can expand and cause societal problems when interfacing with your fellow man.

GET HELP!!

[N6WK]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 27 2005,06:50)]El Hombre muy GORDO,
You have a serious problem beginning to show up,first you thought you controlled the topic and was in charge of who could post.

Then you expanded your illusion to take control of QRZ,now you are under the impression that you should control who uses the Internet,
It is called Illusions of Grandeur,one hallucinates being in charge,often this is found in short fat people with a inferiority complex and it is treatable from a professional,you should seek help,that abnormal hatred you harbor can also be treated by a professional.

If left untreated it can expand and cause societal problems when interfacing with your fellow man.

GET HELP!!
GO AWAY. QUIT Following and Harrasing Me Orville.

MY GOD What a JERK you are.

I have NO idea what you are babbling about. I seriously think, you need the Help Old Man.
Now, For the Last Time...GO AWAY before I file a Harrassment suit against you.

[al2i]

I feel a total lockdown coming. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 27 2005,01:25)]I feel a total lockdown coming. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Please not yet, I want to get a couple whacks in too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

BTW Orv, are you now or have you been affiliated with the Jesus freak or Hippie movement? I was looking at your profile on QRZ and the pic you have there, you know the long hair and the Buddy Holly glasses.

inquiring minds want to know... (mucho loco hombre)

kxq

[K6UEY]

K9KXQ,
Sorry I know nothing about your Jesus Freaks or The hippie movement,you seem to be well acquainted with it, but don't bother to explain, I'm not the slightest interested.As to Buddy Holly I have heard of him but was not a fan,I had matured and past that phase of juvenile behavior by the time he was popular.

Let me give you a word to the wise,there is a story about the long hair and also the glasses,so don't embarass your self by spouting off about something you have NO knowledge about what so ever.

And as to your enlightenment, it is NONE of your DAMN BUSINESS!!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[w5lda]

I see a need for the moderators to do their job and quit playing favorites.This crap has gone on long enough

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ July 27 2005,04:03)]K9KXQ,
Sorry I know nothing about your Jesus Freaks or The hippie movement,you seem to be well acquainted with it, but don't bother to explain, I'm not the slightest interested.As to Buddy Holly I have heard of him but was not a fan,I had matured and past that phase of juvenile behavior by the time he was popular.

Let me give you a word to the wise,there is a story about the long hair and also the glasses,so don't embarass your self by spouting off about something you have NO knowledge about what so ever.

And as to your enlightenment, it is NONE of your DAMN BUSINESS!!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
We have heard your story about the lost bet. We just don't believe it.

[K6UEY]

WDØCT
Quote[/b] ]We have heard your story about the lost bet. # #We just don't believe it.
Don't tell me about it,find some one who cares!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KI4FCP]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,15:12)]Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ July 22 2005,13:37)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ July 22 2005,12:18)]My point is that "racial profiling" has a lot a room for abuse. Just because someone, is black, muslim, Native Ameican, or Hispanic, doesn't give any law enforement official the right to stop someone just because they are part of an ethnic group.

I understand that "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure" for these matters, but I am NOT for "racial profiling". There's got to be a better way.
If you were a cop on a subway with orders to search every fifth passenger you count and thereby search a male anglo college student, a 28 year old black business woman, an elderly latino retiree, a 50-something anglo businessman, and a 71 year old Italian lady, and because your statistical headcount makes you ignore two young adult Arab males, what have you done to insure the saftey of the passengers you're there to protect?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

If your car has been hijacked by a Mexican male, would you want to see the cops checking out anglos and blacks?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

England, Spain, and the US have been targeted by male Arab extremists. #Who the hell do you want the authorities to target - Dutch immigrants?

Wouldn't that be kinda stupid and ineffective?

I can't think of anything more fundamental to police work than deductive reasoning, and that would suggest their efforts be focused on the most likely suspects.

And they would be ___.




WA5KRP
Texas
Danny,

So we target whole ethnic communities. We let our law enforcement people harass perfectly innocent people at will. Detain them just because their ancestry isn't #of the "right flavor". Is that what you are getting at? Deja vous, didn't we help defeat a country like that during WWII? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Newsflash....Id rather the authoritys do it then the terified public taking the law in there own hands, trust me if this keeps going and more attacks happen in the US the folks we are so woried about not offending are gonna have bigger problems when joe Q gets his gun and does it himself. #When the public feels unsafe they will take up arms and do it themselves, right or wrong it dont matter. #In the wild west folks used guns not because they liked them, it was because they needed them to feel safe. #Mark my words we know what the bad guys look like sorry but its the truth, id rather check them out then have to pick up the dead bodies of the innocent. #Thats the facts when you get down to raw human nature, I will protect myself and family at any cost. #And your a lier if you say you wouldnt do the same thing.

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] ]Mark my words we know what the bad guys look like sorry but its the truth, id rather check them out then have to pick up the dead bodies of the innocent.

Yep, the cops in London thought they knew what the bad guys looked like too. Now their pickin' up the body of one innocent. So what is the difference between a mob and the terrorists?...

NONE!

WE become THEM when we first decide to let protections of rights go down the toilet... When presumption of innocence if left flapping in the wind, like so much toilet paper, then we have become them... Then we are the terrorists, terrorizing a race, or a religion, or an idea...

And when we become them, they have won... Are you all willing to let that happen, are you willing to become mobs of terrorists? If not then each of us has to stand up for each others rights... It is the only way we stay ahead...

What they cannot stand is our freedoms, for they cannot control a free people, so, when we let our freedoms lapse, and we stop protecting each others rights, when we stop protecting everyone's rights, then they have won... They have denied us our rights... and we become that much easier to control... because we are scared...

Why is this so difficult for some of you to see...

[KI4FCP]

Quote[/b] (N0PU @ July 27 2005,11:16)]Quote[/b] ]Mark my words we know what the bad guys look like sorry but its the truth, id rather check them out then have to pick up the dead bodies of the innocent.

Yep, the cops in London thought they knew what the bad guys looked like too. Now their pickin' up the body of one innocent. So what is the difference between a mob and the terrorists?...

NONE!

WE become THEM when we first decide to let protections of rights go down the toilet... When presumption of innocence if left flapping in the wind, like so much toilet paper, then we have become them... Then we are the terrorists, terrorizing a race, or a religion, or an idea...

And when we become them, they have won... Are you all willing to let that happen, are you willing to become a mobs of terrorists? If not then each of us has to stand up for each others rights... It is the only way we stay ahead...

What they cannot stand is our freedoms, for they cannot control a free people, so, when we let our freedoms lapse, and we stop protecting each others rights, when we stop protecting everyone's rights, then they have won... They have denied us our rights... and we become that much easier to control... because we are scared...

Why is this so difficult for some of you to see...
You missed my point, its a far cry from simply stoping someone and asking a question..to shoot first and then ask the question. That is wrong, but i see no action will lead to the shoot first then ask your question. I didnt say i approve of it, its just the stone cold reality.

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (KI4FCP @ July 27 2005,13:28)]You missed my point, its a far cry from simply stoping someone and asking a question..to shoot first and then ask the question. That is wrong, but i see no action will lead to the shoot first then ask your question. I didnt say i approve of it, its just the stone cold reality.
And my point was that the tazer worked, the bomber was disabled, and they have a suspect they can question... WHY wasn't this used on the Brazilian? ... Because someone paniced and said 'shoot to kill' then after the Brazilian incident they blustered up and said the same rules are in effect, but somehow, I just don't think that is true, or this fella on the train would have been just as dead...

I think, although the Brits won't admit it, I think the rules have changed... (I mean after all, it wouldn't be a good idea to TELL the terrorists you were changing the rules now would it?)

[gw4rcm]

The tragedy in this whole affair, is not that an innocent has been killed. It is maybe, when it happens again, as it most probably will, the police, #with this at the back of their minds , not shoot to kill, and again get it wrong Difficult times indeed.

There was a suggestion in the Brit press that this unfortunate Copper was trained in America. I totally refute that idea, as being in bad taste.

RCM http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (gw4rcm @ July 27 2005,11:56)]The tragedy in this whole affair, is not that an innocent has been killed. It is maybe, when it happens again, as it most probably will, the police, #with this at the back of their minds , not shoot to kill, and again get it wrong Difficult times indeed.

There was a suggestion in the Brit press that this unfortunate Copper was trained in America. I totally refute that idea, as being in bad taste.

RCM http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
The man was wearing a heavy coat and ran when approached by the police. A tragedy indeed but what would we have done in their place. It's very easy to find fault after the fact.

[KI4FCP]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ July 27 2005,12:01)]Quote[/b] (gw4rcm @ July 27 2005,11:56)]The tragedy in this whole affair, is not that an innocent has been killed. It is maybe, when it happens again, as it most probably will, the police, #with this at the back of their minds , not shoot to kill, and again get it wrong Difficult times indeed.

There was a suggestion in the Brit press that this unfortunate Copper was trained in America. I totally refute that idea, as being in bad taste.

RCM http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
The man was wearing a heavy coat and ran when approached by the police. #A tragedy indeed but what would we have done in their place. #It's very easy to find fault after the fact.
well this is rare but i have to agree

[KE7DFP]

He grew up in Brazil, the Brazilian police will shoot you dead if you run from them. #What ever happened to people being responsible for #their own behavior? #The British Police are some of the best and fairest police in the world. #If an accident has been made, it wasn't intentional. It's the moral equivelent of the same man running in front of a speeding truck. #I still haven't ruled out that he WAS a bomber. #A suicide bomber whose mission was to get shot down, thereby creating PR problems and confusion in the public sector. #The enemy knows there are plenty of liberals who will jump in and finish their work for them. #As to profiling, of course we have to, and we will. #If you have a rash of car jackings across the city by, say, Puerto Rican gangs, you put out an APB to check out groups of Puerto Ricans driving around. #Is that so hard to understand? #99.9% of Terrorist attackers have been late teens, to early twenties, young Arab, muslim men. #We don't have much to go on and we have to use every edge we have. #We are going to have to start doing it soon, so let's start now. #Save a few more lives. #I'm mean, If that's a concern to you. They would get searched at will in their own countries. #So what's the big deal, compared to the alterantives.

[al2i]

Sadly, the accidental shooting of a Brazilian man by the normally excellent law enforcement personnel of Great Britain probably makes the terrorist mentality quite happy. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] ] Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, wore a denim jacket and walked into Stockwell station in south London, stopping to pick up a newspaper moments before officers shot him seven times in the head the morning of July 22, photos and documents leaked to ITV News show. The material was in an initial report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps....efer=uk (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=a21aOw6vQpVA&refer=uk)

[W5MJL]

Wow, if that story is true they sure did screw it up big time.

[w5ljm]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 22 2005,12:50)]Seems to me like an Asian who might not have understood that he was supposed to have stopped.

#
Doesn't matter if I spoke Swahili and I'm visiting Spain. If an officer of the law looks my direction and makes any gestures or remarks that I don't understand, I'm going to stand there and wait to find out what his intentions are. #To run is almost a guarantee that I'm (stupid for one) either up something or have done something that I'm gonna regret.

If I'm wearing a bulky overcoat, appearing to be filled with something, I know what these guys want and I'd better let them see right then and there that I intend no harm. #If I run, I know what to expect when I'm caught.

Law enforcers can't be too careful.
Chioce: #100s of people die or let an idiot, who wants to run because (example) he stuffed fresh baked bread into a coat and wants to run in a time when terrorism is at a desperate level and not stopping because he speaks a different language, live. #I know my choice.
They made the correct choice.

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (w5ljm @ Aug. 17 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 22 2005,12:50)]Seems to me like an Asian who might not have understood that he was supposed to have stopped.


Doesn't matter if I spoke Swahili and I'm visiting Spain. If an officer of the law looks my direction and makes any gestures or remarks that I don't understand, I'm going to stand there and wait to find out what his intentions are. To run is almost a guarantee that I'm (stupid for one) either up something or have done something that I'm gonna regret.

If I'm wearing a bulky overcoat, appearing to be filled with something, I know what these guys want and I'd better let them see right then and there that I intend no harm. If I run, I know what to expect when I'm caught.

Law enforcers can't be too careful.
Chioce: 100s of people die or let an idiot, who wants to run because (example) he stuffed fresh baked bread into a coat and wants to run in a time when terrorism is at a desperate level and not stopping because he speaks a different language, live. I know my choice.
They made the correct choice.
Some one didn't READ the article...

Light levi coat, didn't run, WALKED unimpeded into the station, stopped for a paper, walked to the platform, than ran WITH EVERYONE ELSE to the train, was apprehended, and executed!

AND it is on CCTV!

[N7VQM]

If this is a true account of the event, what's the likelyhood the shooters will be treated justly? If anyone else were to do something like this, it would be homicide, plain and simple.

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (N7VQM @ Aug. 17 2005,22:15)]If this is a true account of the event, what's the likelyhood the shooters will be treated justly? If anyone else were to do something like this, it would be homicide, plain and simple.
THAT remains to be seen....

I'M staying in the basement!
I'm more scared of the idiots with badges than I am of the terrorists!

[KE7DFP]

Quote[/b] (N0PU @ Aug. 17 2005,20:07)]Quote[/b] (w5ljm @ Aug. 17 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 22 2005,12:50)]Seems to me like an Asian who might not have understood that he was supposed to have stopped.

#
Doesn't matter if I spoke Swahili and I'm visiting Spain. If an officer of the law looks my direction and makes any gestures or remarks that I don't understand, I'm going to stand there and wait to find out what his intentions are. #To run is almost a guarantee that I'm (stupid for one) either up something or have done something that I'm gonna regret.

If I'm wearing a bulky overcoat, appearing to be filled with something, I know what these guys want and I'd better let them see right then and there that I intend no harm. #If I run, I know what to expect when I'm caught.

Law enforcers can't be too careful.
Chioce: #100s of people die or let an idiot, who wants to run because (example) he stuffed fresh baked bread into a coat and wants to run in a time when terrorism is at a desperate level and not stopping because he speaks a different language, live. #I know my choice.
They made the correct choice.
Some one didn't READ the article...

Light levi coat, didn't run, WALKED unimpeded into the station, stopped for a paper, walked to the platform, than ran WITH EVERYONE ELSE to the train, was apprehended, and executed!

AND it is on CCTV!
The problem is every single news report on this is different. #I've heard four versions since last night. #Every since the first report, 30 minutes after the fact, it's changed multiple times each and ever day. That's when I posted #this, first report. #Don't hold your breath on any one report being the final version. In fact, # senseless even discussing the events, because we won't know for quit some time what the events even are. #Last night the guy was shot eight times in the head. #This morning I heard three head, two body, etc. etc. etc.

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (N7VQM @ Aug. 17 2005,20:15)]If this is a true account of the event, what's the likelyhood the shooters will be treated justly? #If anyone else were to do something like this, it would be homicide, plain and simple.
It appears from the report in The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1551401,00.html) that Menezes, unknown to him, was surrounded by plainclothes police when he got on the train. He was subsequently immobilized by one undercover policeman, and shot by at least one other.

"I placed my left foot against the open carriage door to prevent it shutting ... I shouted 'He's here' and indicated to the male in the denim jacket with my right hand. I then heard shouting which included the word 'police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket."

According to this officer, Mr de Menezes stood up and walked towards him: "I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had previously been sitting ... I then heard a gunshot very close to my ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage."


Cortland
KA5S

[KE7DFP]

We already had one Gaurdian article posted earlier, and look how accurate it turned out to be. These are the good guys, worse case, it we was accidental # If some are obsessed with finding a single case of police brutality, I would be happy to post some recent cases of Tijuana police brutality, then we would really have something worth our time #discussing. #Want a few hundred examples some?

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 18 2005,07:30)]We already had one Gaurdian article posted earlier, and look how accurate it turned out to be. These are the good guys, worse case, it we was accidental # If some are obsessed with finding a single case of police brutality, I would be happy to post some recent cases of Tijuana police brutality, then we would really have something worth our time #discussing. #Want a few hundred examples some?
You're trying to change the subject again, DFP.

The cops screwed up...It should be obvious even to you...

Dave WX7B

[KE7DFP]

WX7B--How do we know if they screwed up until the data's in? #Their innocent until proven guilty. #Isn't that called "bias" when you assume someone is guilty because they are a white police officers? #N0PU has already tried and sentenced and he's never heard a word of testimony from anyone involved. #I would be the first person to say they were wrong in the face of hard evidence. #Until then, I give the benefit of the doubt to the good guys. #I've heard you stand up for the rights, of even child molesters,until they are absolutely proven guilty. #No rush to judgement. So what's different about this case? #They're police?

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 18 2005,08:56)]WX7B--How do we know if they screwed up until the data's in? #Their innocent until proven guilty. #Isn't that called "bias" when you assume someone is guilty because they are a white police officers? #N0PU has already tried and sentenced and he's never heard a word of testimony from anyone involved. #I would be the first person to say they were wrong in the face of hard evidence. #Until then, I give the benefit of the doubt to the good guys. #I've heard you stand up for the rights, of even child molesters,until they are absolutely proven guilty. #No rush to judgement. So what's different about this case? #They're police?
YOU assumed the Brazilian was guilty! Look at the title of YOUR thread.

Now you're concerned about the accused cop's civil liberties, when it's clear by the CCTV tapes they screwed up.

DFP, Civil Libertarian. Wait, only for cops and Republicans...

Dave WX7B

[KE7DFP]

The thread started when the first report came in which was"police shoot terrorist, five shots to head , before he can detonate bomb. #That's why this thread is here. #When the smoke all clears, and we get the final version, I will make my call. #I have not seen any CCTV, have you? #Now, I , unfortunately must beginning working before the heat starts rising. #Talk to ya soon Dave, 73s #Randy

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 18 2005,09:44)]The thread started when the first report came in which was"police shoot terrorist, five shots to head , before he can detonate bomb. #That's why this thread is here. #When the smoke all clears, and we get the final version, I will make my call. #I have not seen any CCTV, have you? #Now, I , unfortunately must beginning working before the heat starts rising. #Talk to ya soon Dave, 73s #Randy
Right.

I can't find any reference to "denot(ing) a bomb". Your post was your usual knee jerk reaction to cops "doing the right thing."

Don't get sunstroke. I did the chainsaw thing on a fallen tree last weekend in Tulelake and it wasn't fun.

Dave WX7B

[VA7SST]

Basically, the cops grabbed this guy, who had done nothing wrong, sat on him, and shot him in the head seven times. Bloody lovely! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KE7DFP]

Dave-- Tulelake? isn't that right on the Oregon border? #Love that area, but it's hotter than sin in the summer. I had a friend who did a praire falcon study for USFW down there. #Hope your chain saw was sharp so the job went fast. No, we've been blessed with two days of overcast and even a sprinkle of rain. I was getting a ceiling fan and insulation in the garage roof. # It was hitting 135 degrees on a sunny day.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 18 2005,13:44)]Dave-- Tulelake? isn't that right on the Oregon border? #Love that area, but it's hotter than sin in the summer. I had a friend who did a praire falcon study for USFW down there. #Hope your chain saw was sharp so the job went fast. No, we've been blessed with two days of overcast and even a sprinkle of rain. I was getting a ceiling fan and insulation in the garage roof. # It was hitting 135 degrees on a sunny day.
Yep, one of our properties is 500 feet from the Oregon border and it WAS hot. It's a tremendous area. I love being up there, even when it's hot.

I'm going up again this weekend, so if you have anything ridiculous to say, do it now, so I can respond before tomorrow afternoon... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Dave WX7B

[yv6azc]

Police officers are supposed to protect and to serve. They haven't been trained to hurt innocent civilians. So, in this case, I assume that the shot man represented an inminent danger for the public because he was carrying a gun or bomb, or perhaps because he was an activist of a terrorist organization. If not, there are two choices: (1) There is a trial in court because an innocent civilian has been killed or, (2) the incident will #become in fake paradox, that gray spot where the true is always hidden from justice and nobody seems to know what is right and what is wrong.

[N0PU]

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/07/31/uosman.jpg
Osman, The suspected terrorist
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40697000/jpg/_40697022_menezes203.jpg
Menezes, The brazillian electrician

Mistaken Identity
OR
Murder out of fear of the unknown?

Quote[/b] ]"I heard shouting which included the word 'police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket. He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the SO19 officers. I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back onto the seat where he had been previously sitting. I then heard a gunshot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."

Quote[/b] ]The forensic police photos of the scene are shocking. Many are too graphic to show but this one does confirm John Charles was not wearing a padded jacket as had been reported by witnesses at the time. There are also blood stains on the third seat from the doors, apparently confirming reports John Charles was sitting down when shot. We know from the documents, one officer fired seven bullets; this photo shows one of the spent cartridges, another policeman fired three times. The postmortem shows John Charles was hit seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.



http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,15935,1551415,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4157892.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1550815,00.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/july-dec05/london_8-18.html

[KE7DFP]

Got any sourced stories from reputable news agencies? #These all have secret sources, and all contradict eyewitnesses. #Read back over all the different stories the Gaurdian has printed the last month. The truth doesn't change. The Gaurdian does. #I'll wait until actual evidence, and all of it, #is released to make up my mind. Unless you have nothing better to do, #I would suggest you do the same. Oh, and Harry, p-l-e-a-s-e, no more Gaurdian, OK?

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 19 2005,17:00)]Got any sourced stories from reputable news agencies? These all have secret sources, and all contradict eyewitnesses. Read back over all the different stories the Gaurdian has printed the last month. The truth doesn't change. The Gaurdian does. I'll wait until actual evidence, and all of it, is released to make up my mind. Unless you have nothing better to do, I would suggest you do the same. Oh, and Harry, p-l-e-a-s-e, no more Gaurdian, OK?
OK, so when you can't find fault with the facts, you attack the one telling the story...

Very good, you are showing your true colors...

[KE7DFP]

Harry, those aren't facts.

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 19 2005,17:48)]Harry, those aren't facts.
Quote[/b] ]"I heard shouting which included the word 'police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket. He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the SO19 officers. I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back onto the seat where he had been previously sitting. I then heard a gunshot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."


This is a quote, referenced in my previous post, from the man who actually grabbed Meneze and had him detained. He then heard a shot and was pulled off Meneze and "was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage." ...

How much more detail do you want... When will you give it up that this was a bad shoot, and that this fella was executed...

Good Grief!

[al2i]

N0PU must get a lot of spam at that earth2.net address because he has it in the open.

I don't know why I am compelled to comment. I now return you to your ongoing "discussion". May the most determined Ham win!

73,
Dave/al2i

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K9STH]

Well, it came out on cable news (including Fox) a little while ago that Scotland Yard has admitted that this was a royal "screwup" from the "git go". What actually happened will probably never fully come out. But, as far as anyone can tell, the only thing was that the man was living in the same building as several of the terrorists.

He was NOT wearing a heavy coat, he did NOT jump the turnstile, and so on. The original story was basically a "cover up" by those in the field.

As the story was originally told it definitely pointed to the fact that the man was part of the plot. However, as the facts have unfolded the original story was a fabrication compiled by a very few overzealous policemen.

Glen, K9STH

[KE7DFP]

Execution? #I guess that's like Bush killed Cindy Sheehan's son. No matter how hard you try to make it #that, you will never suceed. Get a grip on reality. I think you've read to much Malcom X or Lenin or something. #I'll be the first to admit it was a mistake or an accident if that's what it turns out to be. #I read everyone of N0PUs articles, and all said "from #a #secret source", ITV reports. The original citizen witnesses all still stick by their original story. They (ITV) say they have cctv, but I could not find it googling. Do they show us any? #No, they explain to us what the TV pics look like, instead.#They have all this new info, but's it's leaked from a secret source. They have pictures that are too gory to show us, (ya, right, they would print those so fast just to make the police look bad.), but they WILL show us the one of an unidentifiable man's legs laying on a train car floor. Come'on, British photoshop, tabloid nation, black market journalism.. #Don't you think it's more likely, some enterprising sort saw a market and sold them that. #Like I said , if this turns into an incident of friendly fire, I wil be the first to say, O.K., they were doing they're job and had an accident #But I'm not rushing to judgement over every sound bite rumor that comes over the air. #N0PU-- Ok, so that quote says one of the person's subduing the man said the cops shot him, so. #We already knew that. #Read the other testimonies. #Man was being chased by twentry cops, wouldn't stop, etc. #That's in your article, too. #STH, If there is something on FOX news I will catch it later, but nothings coming over the internet. #Missed FOX tonight, went to see "The March of the Penguins". I wanted to nuture my gentlier side.#

[N0PU]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 19 2005,21:30)]STH, If there is something on FOX news I will catch it later, but nothings coming over the internet. Missed FOX tonight, went to see "The March of the Penguins". I wanted to nuture my gentlier side.
Ya just didn't look hard enough...
Even Fox is covering this...

http://www.fohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165960,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165960,00.html)

[KF0RT]

I'm not sure what you're after here, Randy. On one hand, you seem to be an apologist for the administration (ANY administration) and on the other... well, I'm not seeing a lot of searching for the truth.

What is it that makes you so sure that the "establishment" is always right? Or is it a fear that you might be wrong?

Here's the latest from CNN: Link. (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/19/police.shooting/index.html)

Quote[/b] ]"Police later admitted that de Menezes, a 27-year-old electrician, had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks and apologized to his family and the Brazilian government."

What more proof do you need? Are your credentials better than London's finest?

For my part, I think the mistake may be understandable given the recent attacks in London. Further, I think it's both admirable and professional that the London police owned up to this mistake (many wouldn't, you know).

All that matters is the truth. From that, we can learn and move ahead. Yet, you seem to be hanging on to the "bad guy" theory long after the truth is known. This really is "old news" today. Do you really need full-color footage to see the light? And, to what extent should the world go to in order to prove this to you?

What I see is someone who is so afraid of being wrong that he'll defend his position to the point of embarassment.

Quote[/b] ] I'll be the first to admit it was a mistake or an accident if that's what it turns out to be.

Now might be a good time to cut your losses. Do you perchance bet on horses? (Sorry, just an idle curiosity).

73, Rob

[KC0LFV]

Quote[/b] (ka5s @ July 21 2005,19:26)]Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ July 22 2005,09:26)] Hats off to the Brits. Give 'em hell mates. Let's see some of that here in the good ol' USA. Isn't about time for a little "racial profiling".
Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.
-- Judges 12-6



Cortland
KA5S
You forgot to read the verse before it, sir.

Post Edit: Police in my town don't do anything anyway, so I don't need to worry about this stuff. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
No, I'm not exaggerating. There was a shooting across town a couple months back. Cops showed up five hours later.

[KE7DFP]

I'm not clinging to the idea that the guy was a terrorist, I'm just saying this isn't some big plot to execute people the police don't like. #I think the police were just doing the best they could at the time, and I don't think they did anything malicious. #They didn't get up in the morning and say, let's go kill a Brazilian. As to the leaked report, I'm saying wait until that's verified. #There are some in the press who would love the story to turn in a way to support their agenda. The eye witness accounts contradict the "new secret source". #There's nothing here for me to lose or any losses to be cut. #I'm just being a good juror and waiting until the evdence is substanciated and admitted to court. #I just read Fox news' account and it was pretty fairly handled (as usual). When I first started this thread the story had just come over the wire, and it said they had just stopped a terrorist from setting off a bomb by shooting him in the head five times. Hence the tittle. #A lot of innocent people died those two weeks in July, this is just starting to lok like another casualty of the bombings. #War is hell, but the alternative is even more hell.

[KE7DFP]

Quote[/b] (N0PU @ Aug. 19 2005,19:58)]Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ Aug. 19 2005,21:30)]STH, If there is something on FOX news I will catch it later, but nothings coming over the internet. #Missed FOX tonight, went to see "The March of the Penguins". I wanted to nuture my gentlier side.
Ya just didn't look hard enough...
Even Fox is covering this...

http://www.fohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165960,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165960,00.html)
Thanks for taking the time to find that for me. #Eyewitness accounts and "secret source" still do not jive. But fox news lists both sides of the story. ( I read the links to the story, too). #Well, the official report will becoming out soon enough. #I think part of the problem (according to your article) was: #There were two tails on the guy, and the first tail implied to the second team he was the bomber from the day before. #We'll see. # # # # # # # # # # 73s # # # # #Randy