Promoting simplex use

[kf4lne]

How do you promote using simplex (VHF/UHF FM) to other amateurs? Does anybody know why one of the trends in VHF/UHF operation is to use a hand held and a mag mount on top of the fridge for a station and what can we do as amateurs to promote more simplex use and improve the many stations that are "repeater only" stations so that those stations can be valuable assets during an emergency when the repeaters are unusable (such as extended power outages and antenna-breaking ice storms) This thread is open for your ideas and suggestions.

[WB2WIK]

I did what many considered to be a good job of promoting "simplex use" back in the 1970s when FM and repeaters were incredibly popular -- more than they are now.

Here's what I did: I built a big, very big and very powerful simplex station at home. I could routinely work farther on simplex than any repeater within 100 miles of me could. I could hear and work mobiles farther away than any local repeater, and a lot of people heard me doing just that.

I ran 500W output power to a 13 element vertically polarized rotational Yagi at fifty feet, living atop a 1280' hill that was about 400 feet above average terrain and had a 40-50 mile horizon in most directions, and "listened on 146.52 MHz" when I had a chance. When I announced I was listening -- just one time -- I would routinely get 30-40-50 replies, from stations as far away as 250 miles. I'd try to answer the weakest ones, and then encourage others listening to try working those same stations. Most could not, but occasionally somebody could and they'd get very excited.

A lot of people back East still remind me of those days.

I received an e-mail a couple of months ago from a guy in Vermont who used to hear me on 146.52 simplex every single night -- I lived in New Jersey, about 300 miles southwest of this guy. I occasionally heard him also, even though he was only running ten watts.

But, that's the way to "promote simplex." It's by getting off the repeaters and doing something unusual, and letting people hear you do it. The word spreads.

WB2WIK/6

[wg7x]

Dan,

Its quite simple really: Lead by example.

When ever I meet a friend on the repeater, I always check the input to see is he is hearable on simplex. I then suggest that we go to #FM simplex or 2 meter SSB.

Many times this has resulted in a nice roundtable chat as other hams follow us to the designated frequency.

Give it a try. That all you have to do.

73 Gary WG7X

[kf6rdn]

Would be nice to have a "mobile 146.52" on ssb somewhere. Not to eliminate home stations, but given most (all?) mobiles are vertically challenged/polarized, maybe more a vert. net/calling/qso frequency.

I did as '7x does, had a guy go to simplex, we were a little weak so we went to ssb. Our qso time was a bit short for all the freq changing though.

[KD6NIG]

Find out how close they are, and if they are in simplex range, ask to go to it to check your antenna, etc. When I put a new homebrew antenna (jpole) up last week, I did just that honestly to get opinions on if I had improvement from the old antenna.

Now I'm on simplex every night with a few other hams, I found out from one I tested from that they are almost on every night and they welcomed me to join in.

It never hurts to see how your transmitter is working. Have people go to simplex to see how your antenna, transmitter etc is working. That gets them there and plants the idea in thier head that there is more to it than repeater use all the time http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC5SAS]

146.52 simplex is pretty busy around here. There's even a weekly Simplex Net held every Wednesday night at 9pm local. Lots of checkins.
Every once in a while I'll hear someone who's been a ham for years say that they have never been on simplex. It's a shame really.

[ka0gkt]

I used to have a daily sked with WA0MQM (SK) and Tex, WA0OMB (SK) a quarter century ago. #We would meet on the .34/.94 machine in Omaha, then switch off to 146.46. #Ron had an 11 element Hy-Gain yagi and I had the 15 element Cushcraft. #I don't remember what antena Tex had, but it was a 65 mile+ path. #Other HAMs in Omaha used to wonder who Ron and Tex were talking to, then we'd have to switch back to a repeater so everyone could be in on the roundtable. #Fun times. #There isn't a day that I don't miss Ron and Tex.

[N5PVL]

During Hurricane Emily, the local repeater was QRM'ed out of any usefullness by EchoLink idiots connecting up to ask about the weather. - Then a pair of prize fools ( both located far away from the hurricane and both on computers, not radios ) tied up the repeater for 40 minutes through the miracle of EchoLink while I watched limbs being blown down in my yard and could not report it.

As the day went on, more and more of us went over to simplex, where we could talk without being interrupted by beeps, boops, and snatches of morse code as various mother's mistakes hooked up on EchoLink to "listen in" at the "ecomm hot spot". - This type of QRM is the worst of all, raising the noise level and general sense of confusion during an emergency, when things are already plenty hectic and confusing, thank you.

So I would say "EchoLink Ecomms" is the best way I have seen to get everybody to abandon a repeater - even during the course of an emergency!

By early afternoon, dweebs hooking up on EchoLink to ask about the weather were ignored by the few amateurs still monitoring the repeater. - I heard several hook up and call, but I ignored them and apparently every other ham in deep south Texas was busy doing the same. - The vote for simplex was unanimous.

Note that the problem with obnoxious noise and the parade of clueless idiots goes on every day with every EchoLink repeater, whether there is an emergency or not. For this reason I would say that EchoLink is the single most effective mechanism to get amateurs off the repeaters and onto simplex that we have at our disposal.

Charles Brabham, #N5PVL

Director: USPacket (http://www.uspacket.org)
Admin: HamBlog.Com (http://www.hamblog.com)
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com (http://www.hampoll.com)

[KG4CGC]

Start a net for simplex.

[kf4lne]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ July 21 2005,21:30)]Note that the problem with obnoxious noise and the parade of clueless idiots goes on every day with every EchoLink repeater, whether there is an emergency or not. For this reason I would say that EchoLink is the single most effective mechanism to get amateurs off the repeaters and onto simplex that we have at our disposal.
I like that idea. There is an echolink simplex frequency here, someone put it on 146.52. never hear any use of it except to hear some repeater conecting followed by some repeater disconnected. Needless to say it gets annoying when working a mobile station who is not close enough to get over top of it when you are trying to have a qso and suddenly the other party is interupted by that damn thing. 146.52 is a bad place for echolink, put it on another simplex freq or better yet put it on a radio with a dummy load.

[WA9ZZZ]

I just wrote a note to remind myself to put my 146.52MHz rig back on the air. #I generally try to have radios at home dedicated to monitoring one or more of the national simplex channels. #You only need one channel, so older radios that take a crystal or only have a few programmable channels work fine. #There is not a lot of activity but I'll talk to an occasional mobile driving through the area.

[KC2ESD]

Start a net for simplex.[QUOTE]
Done! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Rick KC2ESD

[kf4lne]

So is anyone putting any of these ideas to use?

[KE7CWB]

You wouldn't use 146.52 for SSB. 144.200 is the 2m SSB call frequency. certainly wouldn't have an extended QSO on .52. I normally call CQ on .52 and then if a station answers I ask the person if they would like to QSY to a different frequency (I usually QSY to either 146.550 or 146.485 depending on location - .55 is a local simplex call channel)

[KE5APY]

I agree with starting a simplex net. We have been operating a simplex net on Monday nights at 8 pm for over a year now, on 146.44 in our area and it is doing very well. Several hams in the area, including myself, use the simplex frequencies as our primary means of communication. Someone is always trying out new antenna's and amps to increase our range without resorting to the repeaters in the area. When I began using simplex frequencies, it was me and one other fellow about 33 miles to the north. Simplex is alive and well in East Texas.

[W7DJM]

Quote[/b] ]146.52 simplex is pretty busy around here. There's even a weekly Simplex Net held every Wednesday night at 9pm local. Lots of checkins.



Quote[/b] ]There is an echolink simplex frequency here, someone put it on 146.52.


What I would like to see is getting people to understand that 146.52 is NOT a general purpose simplex frequency, and that the polite, the correct, the traditional thing to do, is use .52 what it is INTENDED FOR---a common freq that everybody "should" scan, and when contact is made, move somewhere else. It should not be used for long "chitty chatty" QSO's, nor should it be used for a net. The guy who thought up outputting echo link on 6.52 oughta be.........

[KD6NIG]

The locals I usually talk to on .52 lately have been exploring moving to 440 simplex. We only have one person in the group without a 440 rig, but that should be changing shortly.

440 tends to be a little quieter on recieve, so we have had to turn the volume up a little bit, and the signal stregnth tends to be a bit lower @ 5w versus 2m, but we can all communicate well without S9 signals. We're still mostly on 2m, but eventually I think we'll probably be on 440 more than 2m simply because of the fact its usually very quiet.

I have managed on occasion to talk to San Jose from Stockton with 5w when the interesting tropo was going on in the area. That helped us to move off the local machine too when another on the same pair was about S-7 because of the conditions.

I'm looking forward to more 440 simplex work around here.

As for echolink, I think we may be down to one repeater in the area with it now. Used to be 4, but 3 of them have either shut it off, or its simply not being used when I'm around. Used to hear more use of it, but I'm only hearing it on one machine here now, a 440, and the use there is pretty sporadic. It could be that the popularity and fad of it is now waning.

[ai4ep]

There USED to be a lot of folks in north Alabama using 146.520 simplex...on a base running all 45 watts of power to talk to another base 5 miles away.....but...I dont hear them now. Either they left, found cell phones, went to CB, or went to repeaters. It is rather quiet now. You do hear 2 mobiles using handhelds going up/down i-65 around Decatur / Cullman area, but then they fade out.

No I dont use 146.520 but I DO listen, and some times hear a bit of DX in there... hard part is getting folks to tell where they are.

FM simplex is a bit like listening to HF... if you listen long enough, eventually you will hear something worthwhile. Best part of it is, no ID is necessary since you dont transmit, and 99% of the time, they dont know you can hear them.

It aint my fault how the radio waves bounce around.

AI4EP

[wb7dmx]

I have used simplex fm on two meters for many years, I have had many long time qso's, now I have a scanner running with all the call frequency's, and all my riggs are programmed with them also.
I also have a couple of motorola xtal cont. riggs running on simplex all the time, incase one comes on the scanner.
now I have added ssb and cw to the freq's I listen too.
and also added a amp for all mode, 160w to help out, and extended the coverage to include 440, it should be a interesting winter up here in the thumb area of michigan
I have 2 dualband beam antennas on the top of my 50ft tower, one vert and one horiz, great coverage from here.

[w8cbc]

I generally leave it on 146520 on the road, will announce every now and then that I'm listening. I don't often hear anything. 147555 is occasionally active around here.

[K3XR]

In this area of PA we have a decent size group on 146.580. #It is very rare, for most of our group, to work a repeater, it has been around 10 years since I have used one. If you have not tried it, simplex coverage, with the modern gear and antennas available, works rather well both from a fixed station and mobile. #Often times our activity exceeds that of the repeaters in the area. #Don't forget there are a group of simplex freqs in the 147 segment of the band also, i.e. 147.480

[K9STH]

I disagree about making a contact and then immediately moving from the calling frequency. If someone comes on and needs to make a call, then most certainly standby and QSY if necessary. However, the more the activity on the frequency the more activity that it is going to "scare up". If someone listens to the calling frequency and doesn't hear something every once-in-a-while then many are just going to stop monitoring the frequency.

It is the same thing with SSB calling frequencies. Since most weak signal VHFers monitor 50.125 MHz and 144.200 MHz any conversations on those frequencies are going to alert many stations if the band is open. When the band starts to open, then move off the calling frequencies. But, until the band is open having activity on the calling frequencies will "tip off" people when the band does start to open.

There are a few operators who really get bent out of shape when someone is talking on the calling frequencies. However, those same stations almost never call CQ and put some activity on the calling frequencies. There are many openings, especially on 6 meters, and to a lesser extent on 2 meters, that go completely unnoticed because everyone is listening and no one is transmitting.

Glen, K9STH

[WA2ZDY]

I'm with Glen on this one. I'd rather have folks chewing the rag on 52 than nowhere. For the years I had the rigs in my car for my 40 minute one way commute, I left the 2m rig on scan with 52 as the primary. I heard a few guys on there and had a couple of contacts with one of them. Sure, I did my ragchewing on cw on HF, but I was listening to 52 and heard diddly.

Here in central NJ, midway between New York City and Philadelphia, 52 is dead. If anyone wants to use it to ragchew, more power to them. It would be a start.

[w8cbc]

I heard some activity on 146520 last night on the way home. A bit of tropo combined with a good setup - someone was getting out well and talking up a number of stations. I answered a QRZ but he didn't hear me.

I'll probably leave it on simplex on my trip aside from the occasional repeater scan. It'd be great if I could hook up on it with someone going the same way.

[WA5KRP]

In San Antonio the 2M call channel is called "Club 52" and it can get fairly busy late in the evening. Guys are good about leaving breaks so any station can jump in. Mobile stations passing through are promptly recognized and get priority. Generally, they just say hi and get put into rotation until they run out of string. But occasionally they need directions or local information and they get their answers.

Without exception, visitors seem very happy to have somebody out there on 520 to keep them company or help them find their way around.



WA5KRP
Texas

[n2nh]

It would be easier to work simplex here if there was a frequency chart, since many frequencies that are simplex in other areas are occupied by repeaters.

[ai4ep]

KRP...I like your wording of " till they run out of string " !!

good work !!

AI4EP http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N0ZWG]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Oct. 12 2005,12:55)]It would be easier to work simplex here if there was a frequency chart, since many frequencies that are simplex in other areas are occupied by repeaters.
Say what? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[w8cbc]

NYC - I looked in the repeater directory (I lived nearby for years and visit in December) - the band's jammed full. As would be reasonably expected.

[W9AFB]

I have a dedicated rig on .52 at home and anytime i'm mobile, the left side of the radio is also on 146.52. I grew up real close to 3 Interstates so there was always a few people each week passing through on .52, however, it was still quiet in the Chicago area mostly.
Having a QSO and leaving breaks for other stations is a great way to stir up some action. Out here in the cornfields of Illinois, simplex goes quite a distance! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KD6NIG]

We usually move off .52 since there is other activity in our area, but we only move a bit off of it, enough that we aren't interfering with it. Then, we should be able to be found right in the vicinity of it.

When tropo is good around here, San Jose usually has a few guys on .52 which is why we tend to move a little bit. Just trying to prevent QRM. But if conditions are bad and we can't hear them, we'll stay on .52 with 5 second pauses between transmissions so anyone else can jump in and out as needed. We'll also move if asked.

[ai4ep]

Not as much simplex use on 146.520 as there used to be. Why I dont know.

[K9STH]

Activity normally drops off during the summer months. As the temperature drops activity increases.

Glen, K9STH

[wa9cwx]

The original idea of .52 as a "calling only" frequency is a good one. That way, unless there are thousands of hams within ten miles of your house, you can leave a rig or scanner on .52 in the living room or kitchen. #You will #only hear a 'few quick voices' and not be bothered by other stations, yet you CAN monitor all evening. #(you WILL recognize your OWN call).
If there are a lot of QSOs, round tables, etc, either you, your wife, or dog, or kids will shut it off.
With .52 calling ONLY, there is a nice meeting place, and minimal BOTHER over the long haul.

As far as getting people OFF repeaters and ON simplex...
I guess I like the system we have worked out here in S. Wi.
The people populating our towns' repeater are, in my opinion, a great reason to work simplex, yet those who wish to stay there are welcome.

I enjoy a nice station that I set up just to work simplex on 2 meters. But it SURE ain't what WIK had out East.
Man, THAT would be a gas. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

I have a 400 watt amp and pair of home brew 3 element close spaced beams at 60 feet, wide pattern, DEEP side and rear rejection, great for simplex and following mobiles out a good distance.

I agree, by example, using the simplex freqs is a an excellent way to promote simplex. But, if a ham listening on his HT isn't curious as to who or what he is missing, you can't MAKE him work simplex

[KI4GKW]

Well I would really like to see more hams in my area move to the repeaters. In my town, there are 2 excellent coverage repeaters and 1 medium coverage repeater and no one uses it except for the net once a week. But most everyone on 52 here has big beams or very high gain verticals (i'm one of the small stations with a 10 element beam and a 6 db gain vertical).

There's always someone around and it gets fun with the band opeinngs as of lately. I was hearing Wisconsin in a mobile from EM57 (western Ky) about 2 months ago. There's still hope for simplex, but I think that there's no hope for repeaters here.

Paul

[kg4kww]

I prefer VHF SSB to VHF Simplex. Why? Less power needed to get the signal out and it can be received at greater distances than a FM Simplex signal.

As for me I would like to see more use of VHF/UHF Simplex and SSB and would like to see the ARRL do more to promote its use.

[kd7msc]

I like things the way they are. Keep the ya whos, jammers, etc. on the repeaters and leave us alone on simplex. The repeaters have there place, but simplex is more fun. Around here we use 146.52 as calling only then move to .58 or another. I also enjoy ssb but not everyone has ssb.

[kd5rpo]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Oct. 13 2005,19:22)]I prefer VHF SSB to VHF Simplex. Why? Less power needed to get the signal out and it can be received at greater distances than a FM Simplex signal.

As for me I would like to see more use of VHF/UHF Simplex and SSB and would like to see the ARRL do more to promote its use.


I don't think you understand what simplex is in your first sentence, or you are using a rare linear repeater.
I do understand what you tried to say.

SSB VHF / UHF is 99% simplex.

[kf6rdn]

Have a feeling he meant FM, not simplex..

I wish these DC-daylight radios like the 706 had duplex functionality. Or at the least dual recieve. Usually I am on hf, and would be nice to be able to monitor V/Uhf at the same time. Don't really feel like putting in another radio, with limited space in my car.

[WS2L]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ Oct. 14 2005,00:26)]Have a feeling he meant FM, not simplex..

I wish these DC-daylight radios like the 706 had duplex functionality. Or at the least dual recieve. Usually I am on hf, and would be nice to be able to monitor V/Uhf at the same time. Don't really feel like putting in another radio, with limited space in my car.
I agree with you not only for the mobile but for the house also. Last year I decided that I wanted to get active on 2 meter SSB/CW and wanted to buy a rig that covered 160 meters to 70cm all mode with dual receive. I figured instead of having to run 2 different radio's to accomplish what I wanted was out, I have limited space for my radio equipment in the shack. I bought a TS2000 as it met my requirements to a T and everything I wanted was in one box instead of two or more. I don't know about others but even when I'm on HF I like to monitor the local repeater at the same time. For this and other reasons I like the dual receive that the 2000 offers, it would be nice to see more of the mobile HF rigs to have the dual receive.

[ki5dx]

here in paris texas 146.520 is alive and well...it seems more and more people are using this freq now than are using the local repeaters..why? i think it is just because there has just been more and more activity there,i know almost every evening there is quite a few on 52..we do get the occasional jammer or qrm spewer or W.I.A. but they usually dont stay around too long and they go back to their qrm spewing repeater repeater...that brings up something else, if i want to talk dx i get on hf, i really dont care to hear guys talking 800 miles away through dozens of linked repeaters,what is being accomplished here? just think, they are tying up all of those repeaters for nothing, they could have been on simplex and not wasted all the band space and not created all the qrm..linked repeaters,echolink, irlp and the like, in my opinion just create more problems...i think it is a great idea if used in an emergency or maybe a net once in a while but not 24 hours a day..again to get more people on simplex, keep linking repeaters, hook them up to the internet, put all sorts of alerts, voice messages and whirly gigs and this will drive more to use simplex

[w8cbc]

One reason I tend to leave it on 146520 is there are a couple of "It's all about MEEEEE" types around here that haunt the repeaters and tend to hog them whenever they're active. Since I leave my obnoxious switch off when I'm on air, I tend to monitor the simplex calling freq. The meemeemee types don't use it. Perhaps they don't know what simplex is anyway.

[KC0LOE]

We use simplex around here more than the repeaters also. We usually BS on 146.550 or go to 144.240 SSB. The repeaters around here are getting bad too. What you don’t belong to this and this club? Then get off our repeater. Another good one is, I was talking to a guy from Sioux Falls, about 70 miles from me, so we were using a repeater for contact since simplex wasn't working.

We got some not so nice guy tell us to get off the repeater and go to simplex. Yeah.... we can't go to simplex; we are out of range of each other. Then they guy says, then get off I’m tired of hearing u guys talk. What a…. you know what. Simplex all the way or 2 meter SSB.

[KD7WHQ]

We have a regularly scheduled net on 146.540 out here, and a good number participate, myself included.

When the 146.96 machine was down, I was talking with a number of the regular users on the output frequency.

Simplex is alive and well here ;)

[kb2vxa]

Hi all,

FM simplex on 2M, 220 and 70cM is alive and well but nothing beats a wide area repeater to go the distance. Linked repeater networks REALLY do the job, BUT the land line lids can keep the VoIP stuff, it's not radio when all you need is a computer and an Internet connection, BAH! (I VERY seldom hear that stuff around here, I guess I'm not alone, hi.)

Then there's SSB, it's where it's AT when the band(s) open.

"When the 146.96 machine was down, I was talking with a number of the regular users on the output frequency."

I've done that too and sometimes goof on them, some never know the difference. (What happened to the courtesy tone?) (;->) That brings up another related topic, why do the regulars who are all within simplex range use the repeater?

Then there's another, I know a big gun (1KW into an H stack @ 90') who can time out simplex and HAS, by the time he shuts up everyone is gone. Funny, he doesn't do that on 20M. (;->)