Your Government Is Lying To You (Again)

[k4kyv]

The White House’s anti-marijuana propaganda campaign has continued to take on an increasingly alarmist and extremist tone, arguably crossing over any reasonable line of probity. The Bush Administration’s latest rhetoric does not qualify as mere exaggeration; they are flat-out lying to the American public about marijuana.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5513

[K8YS]

you would not think this if you ever known anyone that was addicted to marijuana... Do not try to tell me it is NOT addictive.

[kc7flr]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 20 2005,21:06)]The White House’s anti-marijuana propaganda campaign has continued to take on an increasingly alarmist and extremist tone, arguably crossing over any reasonable line of probity. The Bush Administration’s latest rhetoric does not qualify as mere exaggeration; they are flat-out lying to the American public about marijuana.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5513
And who do you cite as a source? NORML will say anything to get marijuana legalized.

I suppose you think NORML is an unbiased source that wouldn't lie to support their agenda.

[W8EFA]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 20 2005,21:17)]you would not think this if you ever known anyone that was addicted to marijuana... Do not try to tell me it is NOT addictive.
Ys is flat wrong, as usual. It is not physically addictive. Many, many, studies have shown this though you conservatives don't believe in science. Cigarettes with nicotine is one of the worst addictive drugs. Marijuana does not have any addictive substances. It is from the same family as beer hops. You can graft a marijuana plant onto a beer hop and it will grow! It is as physically addictive as beer which means none at all.

[kc7flr]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ July 20 2005,21:58)]Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 20 2005,21:17)]you would not think this if you ever known anyone that was addicted to marijuana... Do not try to tell me it is NOT addictive.
Ys is flat wrong, as usual. It is not physically addictive. #Many, many, studies have shown this though you conservatives don't believe in science. #Cigarettes with nicotine is one of the worst addictive drugs. #Marijuana does not have any addictive substances. #It is from the same family as beer hops. #You can graft a marijuana plant onto a beer hop and it will grow! #It is as physically addictive as beer which means none at all.
It may not be physically addictive, but it certainly is psycologically addictive.

I haven't met a single pot smoker who hasn't made the claim that it makes them 1) smarter, 2) concentrate better, 3) think clearer. None of these claims are based in reality, though. Even the claim that maraijuana has any medical benefit for the user is based on fantasy.

[W8EFA]

Psychologically yes it can be. But then again so can food.

There have been many studies showing it can be beneficial for Nausea and pain in Cancer patients. Studies also show it relieves pressure in the eyes and is beneficial for Glaucoma

[KC2ESD]

Marijuana may not be addictive like coke or crack but it does make one dumber and unable to hold jobs except for the low paying ones. No pot for me, I don't want it or need it. I need to stay sharp to keep my great handling Focus on the road.
73 de Rick KC2ESD the Red one

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ July 21 2005,00:12)]Even the claim that maraijuana has any medical benefit for the user is based on fantasy.
That is an ignorant crock of shít.

I practiced pharmacy for 25 years and have known many (over 100) patients who underwent chemotherapy. Those that used marijuana had far fewer episodes of nausea and vomiting and were better able to sustain their weight due to improved appetite. Marijuana markedly improved the patients' sense of well being and greatly reduced the nightmarish symptoms associated with chemo. As a result, marijuana users are more likely to complete the entire course of their chemo (non-users frequently give up and quit chemo) and enjoy better therapeutic response.

If the day comes where you need chemotherapy you better pray to God you can get your hands on some weed. It's just about the only thing out there that can dramatically reduce your level of misery.


WA5KRP
Texas

[kc7flr]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ July 20 2005,22:17)]Psychologically yes it can be. #But then again so can food. #

There have been many studies showing it can be beneficial for Nausea and pain in Cancer patients. #Studies also show it relieves pressure in the eyes and is beneficial for Glaucoma
Food is beneficial to life itself. Without food you will soon starve to death. Not so with marijuana.

Those so-called studies started with a conclusion and worked backward. No real study has shown where marijuana relieves pressure in the eyes. None.

[kc7flr]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ July 20 2005,22:37)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ July 21 2005,00:12)]Even the claim that maraijuana has any medical benefit for the user is based on fantasy.
That is an ignorant crock of shít. #

I practiced pharmacy for 25 years and have known many (over 100) patients who underwent chemotherapy. #Those that used marijuana had far fewer episodes of nausea and vomiting and were better able to sustain their weight due to improved appetite. #Marijuana markedly improved the patients' sense of well being and greatly reduced the nightmarish symptoms associated with chemo. #As a result, marijuana users are more likely to complete the entire course of their chemo (non-users frequently give up and quit chemo) and enjoy better therapeutic response.

If the day comes where you need chemotherapy you better pray to God you can get your hands on some weed. #It's just about the only thing out there that can dramatically reduce your level of misery.


WA5KRP
Texas
I tend to disbelieve those who use profanity and attack me personally in an attempt to persuade me of their "superior" knowledge.

All you have is anecdotal evidence. You have no clinical proof that marijuana is any better than any other theropy. Your claim that those who don't use marijuana "frequently give up and quit chemo" is not proved out with the facts.

Your assertion that I would ever want to use marijuana for any reason has no basis reality. You may well have worked in a pharmacy, but you cannot say for a fact that marijuana is "about the only thing out there" that could dramatically do anything other than cloud the user's perception of reality.

Next time you want to disagree with someone, drop the urge to attack them personally.

[K6BBC]

I only have this to say. #I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANY MAN BEATING UP THEIR WIFE AFTER A FOOTBALL GAME - after smoking grass! #Did you know Sunday afternoon is prime time for wife beating according to police? #Why you ask? #BOOZE! #Dumb-ass people love to drink beer and watch football. #After the game, a certain percentage like to take it to their woman. #

I have never heard of anybody getting violent from pot – NEVER.

BBC

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ July 20 2005,22:27)]Marijuana may not be addictive like coke or crack but it does make one dumber and unable to hold jobs except for the low paying ones. No pot for me, I don't want it or need it. I need to stay sharp to keep my great handling Focus on the road.
73 de Rick KC2ESD the Red one
REEFER MADNESS, I saw that movie.

[K6UEY]

WE Have a problem, right here in River City!!
POT heads UNITE our GOV has lied to us about the use of pot and getting stoned and refusal to face reality.

I'm sure it was a plot by President Bush,who probably Leaked it to Rove who told the press.

We must get a Special Prosicutor,and assemble the Senate Intelligence Committee,now there is an OXYMORON if I ever saw one.

Only on QRZ would you find this discussion!
Only in the United States of America could this happen!!

GOD Bless the United States of America!!

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ July 21 2005,01:29)]I tend to disbelieve those who use profanity and attack me personally in an attempt to persuade me of their "superior" knowledge.

All you have is anecdotal evidence. You have no clinical proof that marijuana is any better than any other theropy. Your claim that those who don't use marijuana "frequently give up and quit chemo" is not proved out with the facts.
Here is the FDA required package insert attached to every bottle of Marinol®, (http://www.marinol.com/pdfs/MARINOLPI.pdf) a canabinoid derived from marijuana. It will substantiate my anecdotes.

Attack you personally? Oh, please. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/jo1.gif



WA5KRP
Texas

[KW4MW]

Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC7YRA]

K, I read the marinol pamphlet. It the lower right had corner about 3 or 4 paragraphs up from the bottom it says this product should not be used by people with a history of substance abuse. They are more prone to abuse this product. While its true that people can abuse anything this is kinda interesting.

And in my pharmacological experience I find other medications
far more effective in treating all sorts of disorders associated with chemo. Am I a pharmacist, No. But as a medic and ER tech for 10 years I can throw a little knowledge into the conversation.

Brad

[k4kyv]

I find it incredible that the very same people who constantly preach "individual liberty", "less government control", "private property rights" and "free enterprise" are more than willing to have federal and state governments prosecute people for growing a natural weed on their own property and consuming the product in the privacy of their own homes.

What a bunch of hypocrites!

"Get the government off our backs and into our bedrooms."

[K8YS]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ July 20 2005,23:58)]Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 20 2005,21:17)]you would not think this if you ever known anyone that was addicted to marijuana... Do not try to tell me it is NOT addictive.
Ys is flat wrong, as usual. It is not physically addictive. Many, many, studies have shown this though you conservatives don't believe in science. Cigarettes with nicotine is one of the worst addictive drugs. Marijuana does not have any addictive substances. It is from the same family as beer hops. You can graft a marijuana plant onto a beer hop and it will grow! It is as physically addictive as beer which means none at all.
EFA, put the joint down and open your eyes. I have SEEN the effects of marijuana use.

If you think it is so great, give it to your kids.

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 21 2005,07:33)]I find it incredible that the very same people who constantly preach "individual liberty", #"less government control", "private property rights" and "free enterprise" are more than willing to have federal and state governments prosecute people for growing a natural weed on their own property and consuming the product in the privacy of their own homes.

What a bunch of hypocrites!

"Get the government off our backs and into our bedrooms."
This is the major problem I have with the current administration, current bunch of right wing republicans. #Most of my attitudes would be considered "rightish", such as my attitude on gun control, fiscal responisibilty, welfare, immigration etc. The current admin wants, AGAIN to have an amnesty program. #You came across ILLEGALLY, NO problem, we'll just reward you by making you legal. #Then you have some total whack jobs that feel if you say anything against the admin you are some kinda anti american spy/commi/terrorist wannabe that has been dumbed down from television and modern attitudes to complete idiot level, and OH for that golden age of yesteryear, when men were men, women were in the kitchen, sheep ran scared, blacks were at the back of the bus and life was just oh so peachy!

But it's SOOOO important to illegalize gay marriage and flag burning via editing and ripping our constitution. And god forbid someone use an herbal substance that affects no one, only themselves. (I am not only talking about pot, I am talking some some bodybuilding substances that have been quietly taken off the market).

They are "republican" when it comes to THEIR rights, not others.

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,06:42)]Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
That was REALLY stupid. Oh, gotta go, Rush is on.

[KA9VQF]

Many years ago I read a scientific paper all about how using marijuana, even in mass amounts has absolutely no psychological effects.

The report went on to say that the moon is trying to eat the earth.

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (KC7YRA @ July 21 2005,09:11)]K, #I read the marinol pamphlet. #It the lower right had corner about 3 or 4 paragraphs up from the bottom it says this product should not be used by people with a history of substance abuse. #They are more prone to abuse this product. #While its true that people can abuse anything this is kinda interesting.

And in my pharmacological experience I find other medications #
far more effective in treating all sorts of disorders associated with chemo. #
They would also be prone to abuse narcotic analgesics, hypnotics, and the minor tranquilizers (Xanax, Valium,etc) - should cancer patients with a history of substance abuse be deprived of these drugs?

What's out there for chemo patients that will stimulate their appetite? That is a huge problem for most of these folks.



WA5KRP
Texas

[KW4MW]

I have to agree with K8YS, I have had kids working for me that were habitual weed users. #Their speech and thought processes were slower than normal. #Yes, the same problem exists with habitual drinkers also. ##

Is marijuana habit forming? #Probably to the same extent that a fat lady enjoys her Hagen Daas and Whitman chocolates. #Chemically addictive - No, Psychologically addictive, IMHO #Yes. #

Now, it is not my intention to pass judgement on the legality of marijuana one way or another. #I will say that while I was in the Navy I was placed in the position of having to enforce anti-marijauna policies and I felt I was being the hypocrite, i.e., enjoying the pleasures of good whiskeys or a few cold beers while saying No-No to the weed crowd.

I will say this, moderation is the key, whether you are using marijuana or alcohol. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[ab8ma]

I remember reading somewhere about a simulation where pilots were asked to injest THC (not sure if it was smoked or otherwise administered). They all said that they felt the effects of the substance, and the tests indicated less than stellar performance. I also believe that the test was repeated multiple times with similar results.

After a time passed during which the substance was no longer present in the system, the test was repeated. There were still signs of degradation from the baseline, even though the subjects "felt" absolutely normal.

I also remember that the primary problem associated with the substance was apathy. I can vouch for that (5 wonder years at the University in the 60's).

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,08:42)]Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
And do you all suppose conservatives drink booze and beat their wives after the sunday football game. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

kxq

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 21 2005,09:52)]EFA, put the joint down and open your eyes. I have SEEN the effects of marijuana use.

If you think it is so great, give it to your kids.
Typical thinking by the conservatives, I would not expect any thing less...

kxq

[K8YS]

Quote[/b] (k9kxq @ July 21 2005,11:02)]Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 21 2005,09:52)]EFA, put the joint down and open your eyes. I have SEEN the effects of marijuana use.

If you think it is so great, give it to your kids.
Typical thinking by the conservatives, I would not expect any thing less...

kxq
KXQ:

Higher praise never spoken... thank you!

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 21 2005,11:13)]Quote[/b] (k9kxq @ July 21 2005,11:02)]Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 21 2005,09:52)]EFA, put the joint down and open your eyes. I have SEEN the effects of marijuana use.

If you think it is so great, give it to your kids.
Typical thinking by the conservatives, I would not expect any thing less...

kxq
KXQ:

Higher praise never spoken... thank you!
Wrong again YS, it was not ment to be a praise, but I expected a flip flop on your part.

If you think it is so great, give it to your kids.[/quote]

That was absolutly brilliant OM....

kxq

[K9STH]

According to a program on The History Channel the main reason that marijuana was criminalized early in the 20th century was that large numbers of Mexican agricultural workers were smoking it and getting "high" especially on weekends. This "upset" many of the Anglo community, especially religious women, in the "border states".

To placate these persons, and as a punitive measure to these workers (you can read discrimination) laws were passed making smoking of marijuana illegal.

As for medical uses: There are definitely situations where marijuana (either smoking it or taking derritives of the drug) can definitely help. However, for every person that does require marijuana for medical reasons there are probably one hundred that are using the drug for recreational purposes.

The same thing goes for the "harder" drugs. For every person who requires the drug for pain, etc., there are at least one hundred who are using them for recreation.

Although marijuana has not been shown to be physically addictive, many (if not the vast majority) of persons who use it on a regular basis "graduate" to the "harder" drugs.

Personally I am not opposed to the use of marijuana for proven medical reasons. Providing it through specific channels to those persons should be legalized. However, for those who want marijuana for recreational purposes should be denied.

Glen, K9STH

[K8YS]

Quote[/b] (k9kxq @ July 21 2005,11:23)]KXQ:

Higher praise never spoken... thank you!
Wrong again YS, it was not ment to be a praise, but I expected a flip flop on your part.

If you think it is so great, give it to your kids.[/quote]

That was absolutly brilliant OM....

kxq[/QUOTE]
I'm not John Kerry, I am not Shillary Rodham-Rodam, I do not flip-flop.

[KW4MW]

k9kxq Posted on July 21 2005,08:43
Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,08:42)
Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

# # # # # # # #

And do you all suppose conservatives drink booze and beat their wives after the sunday football game. #

kxq

I made 4 happy faces - it was intended as a subtle, tongue in cheek humor and I certainly didn't expect a knee-jerk reaction.

kxq #Notice the differences in what was said. #I didn't say that all Democrats and no-code guys smoked dope, I did say that there was a possible connection that the dope smokers were Democrats and couldn't learn code. #In other words I didn't paint all Democrats and no-coders as dope smokers.

You on the other hand say we all supposedly believe "conservatives drink booze and beat their wives after the Sunday football game", i.e. you paint all conservatives with the same brush.

First of all an increase in the incidence of the wife beatings, or more correctly incidents of domestic violence (not necessarily the wife), occured only when the home team lost. #

Having lived in the greater Washington DC area for 5 years I can attest to the fact that whenever the Redskins lost the incidence of domestic violence increased dramatically. #Considering the area in which the overwhelming majority of the domestic violence occured it would be very hard for me to tag that portion of the population as "conservative". #

Again kxq it was a joke.

In the words of the Great WX7B #"Relax" # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KW4MW]

k6bbc Posted: July 21 2005,08:10
Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,06:42)
Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

# # # # # # # #

That was REALLY stupid. #Oh, gotta go, Rush is on.

BBC, read my previous to kxq
I really expected better from you.

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,12:36)]k9kxq Posted on July 21 2005,08:43
Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,08:42)
Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

# # # # # # # #

And do you all suppose conservatives drink booze and beat their wives after the sunday football game. #

kxq

I made 4 happy faces - it was intended as a subtle, tongue in cheek humor and I certainly didn't expect a knee-jerk reaction.

kxq #Notice the differences in what was said. #I didn't say that all Democrats and no-code guys smoked dope, I did say that there was a possible connection that the dope smokers were Democrats and couldn't learn code. #In other words I didn't paint all Democrats and no-coders as dope smokers.

You on the other hand say we all supposedly believe "conservatives drink booze and beat their wives after the Sunday football game", i.e. you paint all conservatives with the same brush.

First of all an increase in the incidence of the wife beatings, or more correctly incidents of domestic violence (not necessarily the wife), occured only when the home team lost. #

Having lived in the greater Washington DC area for 5 years I can attest to the fact that whenever the Redskins lost the incidence of domestic violence increased dramatically. #Considering the area in which the overwhelming majority of the domestic violence occured it would be very hard for me to tag that portion of the population as "conservative". #

Again kxq it was a joke.

In the words of the Great WX7B #"Relax" # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

OK Mike, I'm relaxing but I didn't find your post to be that humorous, guess I'm a little over defensive at times.


NO,I do not paint all conservatives with the same brush,this may come to be a surprise to you but their are some conservatives who I agree with on topics, and also politics.

I'm an old school democrat like my Grandfather and Father, I think government should be there when you need them, I don't like this gun grabbing crap that some of the far left try to shove at me, and I certainly dislike a liar be they republican or democrat.

This also may be a surprise to you, I voted for President Bush in 2000 and after 4 years of what I seen, I voted in 2004 for a change.


kxq

edit for spelling so you don't have a hissy.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KW4MW]

kxq Quote[/b] ]edit for spelling so you don't have a hissy....touche' http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,10:47)]k6bbc Posted: July 21 2005,08:10
Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,06:42)
Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

# # # # # # # #

That was REALLY stupid. #Oh, gotta go, Rush is on.

BBC, read my previous to kxq
I really expected better from you.
You are just messing with words.

[KA3RFE]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ July 20 2005,21:58)]Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 20 2005,21:17)]you would not think this if you ever known anyone that was addicted to marijuana... Do not try to tell me it is NOT addictive.
Ys is flat wrong, as usual. It is not physically addictive. #Many, many, studies have shown this though you conservatives don't believe in science. #Cigarettes with nicotine is one of the worst addictive drugs. #Marijuana does not have any addictive substances. #It is from the same family as beer hops. #You can graft a marijuana plant onto a beer hop and it will grow! #It is as physically addictive as beer which means none at all.
Alcohol is also an addictive drug. Beer is an alcoholic beverage. 12 ounces of beer equals 4 ounces of wine, and 1 ounce of any hard liquer.

Take a tour of any detox unit sometime and watch the alcohol addicts withdraw. It's not pleasant, and for some alcohol addicts, detox can be deadly unless medical help is immediatly available. One other job I had was as a trained counselor in a substance abuse agency and I got to see first-hand what alcohol addiction meant. It can kill. Many alcoholics only drink beer. They may put away 10 or more beers an evening, on average. Go through 1.5 cases on a weekend.

Don't tell me beer isn't addictive. It is.

It's not an "innocent" substance. It has deadly effects on the nation's roads. If an 150 pound adult drinks 2 beers in an hour's time, he or she is DUI.

[ka5s]

As usual, we're oversimplifying a complex matter to the point of absurdity. I've always been a bit puzzled that doctors can legally prescribe morphine -- but not THC. Then again "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

A nation that is as addicted as we are to the small pleasure of candy bars and soda pop needs all the help it can get resisting greater vices.


Cortland
KA5S

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (ka5s @ July 21 2005,13:52)]A nation that is as addicted as we are to the small pleasure of candy bars and soda pop needs all the help it can get resisting greater vices.


Cortland
KA5S
UmmmmMmmmm Dooonnutsss.. aahhhhggg

[n0jaa]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,09:42)]Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
That's not quite true. One of the tenets of the Libertarian Party is a legalization of all "recreational" drugs.

Paul, N0JAA.

I used to partake in some of the good Lords finer marijuana.I also used to drink.I also learned code.I also know for a HARD CORE FACT that it does in fact grow out of the ground. I would like to se it legalized.Politically motivated?Not a bit.I just think t
here are a lot worse things than pot. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I wish they would spend more time on more important things.Like identy theft,terrorism,and domestic violence.
just my own personal opinion. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KF0RT]

Interesting topic. And KRP is right, as are a few others here. Marijuana is not physically addictive and has few of the problems associated with tobacco or alcohol which are both legal. The biggest problem with pot is the social cost. Because it's illegal, our prisons are full of people who could otherwise be contributing to the tax base.

Remember Ronnie Ray-gun's "Zero Tolerance" drug policy? In effect, it said that if any evidence of drugs were found on your property, you stood to forfeit the property. No trial, no due process. The property was just siezed and became the property of whatever law enforcement agency made the claim. At one time (I'm not sure how true this is today), there were police departments that received a lot of their funding this way. Find one pot seed? Well, that's a $150,000 house the government gets to keep, and even if you're never charged with a crime, you're out on the street.

I'm not a big supporter of drug use, but let's get real here. Marijuana is less dangerous than some things that are legal. Lung cancer wards are not full of pot smokers and nobody ever lost a liver from smoking pot. Fatal overdose? Never happens. Medical benefits? You bet. It's often cited that for everything where marijuana provides a medical benefit, there is an equal drug, available by prescription. This is mostly true. And some of these drugs are nothing more than marijuana derivatives. I guess that makes them "better" somehow -- it sure shifts the economics.

Here's one for the anti-addicted... I know that some of you who can't fathom being addicted drink a lot of coffee. Statistics are on my side here. Give the coffee up for a week (no cheating - no substitutes!), and tell us how it goes. But don't tell me that caffeine is okay because it's "legal." Caffeine is an addictive drug, plain and simple.

U.S. drug policy is the worst case of "deferred success" I've ever seen. We have "drug czars" to deal with it (a Russian term). You won't find a "czar" in the Department of Homeland Security or in the FHA, FBI, CIA, NPS, NFS or the NEA. No, we must demonize this best we can.

Drugs, you see, are pure evil (unless the medical community gets a cut of the profits, of course).

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm feeling a tad parched and have some beer around here somewhere.

Any takers to quit the coffee for a week? Didn't think so.

73, Rob

I happen to be a caffine junkie myself.Actually,I am going to give up coffee for a week.just to let you know how it goes.I know for starters that around the second day I will srart having severe headaches and probabally some irritability but after that I don't know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
starting tomorrow(already had my java today.) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[w6ez]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,06:42)]Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Oh I like that one!

[W5HTW]

Question:

If marijuana does not affect the mind, why would anyone use it? Like alcohol; if it doesn't give you a 'high' why bother? Why not just walk by and throw your money into a trash can? Better idea. If MJ does nothing at all to affect the consciousness, and you insist upon buying it, why not just send me the money? Thanks.

Conclusion: Marijuana affects the consciousness. If it doesn't, it is simply incredibly dumb to buy it.


Question:

If marijuana does not lead to higher, more addictive drugs, why do so many crack addicts claim they got their start on joints?

Conclusion: There is probably no evidence that marijuana use leads to addiction to cocaine, heroin or other drugs. However, since it is illegal, it does put one seeking it in the circle of 'friends' who also deal in other drugs, and who would love to have one hooked on the more expensive drugs. I'm not sure, though, that means MJ is an automatic trigger for more dangerous drug use.


Question:

Should marijuana be legalized?

Since it apparently affects the consciousness, or its users are really, really dumb for they *believe* it affects the consciousness, if it were more readily available at over the counter drug store prices, would those who crave that consciousness-altering substance buy more of it? If so, would they spend more time lying around the house smoking pot instead of getting a job and supporting the family?

If they weren't working, how could they afford to buy the higher quantities of legal mj? Would they have to use their welfare check? Or resort to mugging little old ladies? Or burglary?


Question:

Is there proof football fans who beat their wives do not use marijuana?

Conclusion:

Unless getting a blood test from them, I don't think we can reach any conclusion.


Question:

Medical MJ.

Conclusion:

No problem here with me. If it can be classified as a medicine, with all the certifications of a prescription medicine, I'm all for it. Likewise, I wish I could grow in my back yard things like Paxil, insulin, and even aspirin. In other words, I disagree with growing it personally. Get it from the drug store, on a prescription basis. We are not permitted to grow our own medications for high blood pressure, stomach flu, heart disease, and others. Why should we be permitted to grow THIS narcotic? I think that "grow my own' thing is simply a hope that one can raise his own pot and stay high. If it is to be treated as a medicine, then do so ALL the way. Make it available only by prescription from the pharmacy. I'd have nothing at all negative to say about that.

Ed





But the bottom line is:

If MJ doesn't affect the mind, then why bother?

Ed

[W8CEI]

Haveing just coming off of 4 months of chemothapy, I wish I had know about Marijuana. as the other drugs did not help & are much more addictive. Until lately M.D.Anderson cancer center gave marijuana to its patients. 73 to all [good post]

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (W8CEI @ July 21 2005,21:00)]Haveing just coming off of 4 months of chemothapy, I wish I had know about Marijuana. as the other drugs did not help & are much more addictive. Until lately M.D.Anderson cancer center gave marijuana to its patients.
That sounds brutal. I'm sorry you didn't have the option. Chemo is a tough row to hoe.

I hope your recovery is swift.



WA5KRP
Texas

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (ki4bnc @ July 21 2005,18:50)]I happen to be a caffine junkie myself.Actually,I am going to give up coffee for a week.just to let you know how it goes.I know for starters that around the second day I will srart having severe headaches and probabally some irritability but after that I don't know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
starting tomorrow(already had my java today.) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Please let us know how it goes! I think you already have the "symptoms" of caffeine withdrawel down pat. Headaches and irritability. (Expect some sleep loss, too).

I know a guy who was once so addicted he would chew raw coffee beans. It took him about three weeks to "get over it" but he was miserable the whole time. FWIW, the same thing can happen with cola (Pepsi, Coke, Jolt) addiction.

The whole subject of "drinking" is an interesting one. Through social norms and MadAve conditioning, we have been taught some bad things. Coffee is really pretty harmless -- nobody dies from drinking coffee, but it is physically addictive.

Man, as a society, we spend a TON of money on drinks, when plain old water is what's best. I love my beer and my XYL loves her Starbucks (we buy that stuff by the case at Costco). When the beer's not on tap, I drink Diet Coke -- well beyond the "diet" stage here, but sugared drinks are real nasty on the teeth. I spend (and this is no joke) over $1,000 a year on drinks, when water is free. That's a brand new IC-706MkIIg every year. Every Friday, I go to lunch with the guys at work and order an iced tea. Water is free, but iced tea is $1.75. Over a year, that's about $80 and it contributes to the $1,000. Kind of a lot, I think. Who wins? It sure isn't me.

To each his own, though. I love microeconomics (a class I almost failed in college). A lot of what we do isn't in our better interest, but we do it anyway. And I'm as much a hypocrite as anyone else.

Any more takers on the coffee challenge? C'mon all you addicts. If you can't give it up, you're no better than the crack head down the street. How long before we hear "I can give it up any time I want?" And long justifications about how it's "okay" because it's legal and "harmless". Talking coffee here, for Chistsake, not pot, not cocaine, not exstacy, not acid. Coffee.

73, Rob

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ July 21 2005,22:28)]I spend (and this is no joke) over $1,000 a year on drinks, when water is free. #That's a brand new IC-706MkIIg every year. #
Try smoking 2 packs a day: $7.50 x 365*

OUCH!




WA5KRP
Texas


*you're on your own when it comes to math

[kf4lne]

I quit using caffine at the first of the year. I drink water and juices and kool-aid. I gave up caffine because it can contribute to esophegerial erosion in people who have nasty acid reflux problems. I also quit smoking and cut back heavily on the fast food. Nature has far more experience making weed than man has making anything else. The plant has a use in the ecosystem otherwise it wouldnt be here.

The sleep loss thing.oh yeah,I forgot about that.I was thinking that when I was diagnosed with an ulcer I did give up the coffee,and the cokes and ALL products containing caffine and carmel.I will admit that the prospect is frightening,but I gave up pot(not happily:angry::angry: http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif )I gave up alcohol and some other stuff.I am scared to give up smoking because I know that it will be the hardest thing I have ever done!(learning code was a cakewalk compared to cigs.)I think I am ready though.I told the wife that if I did quit that I would still want the money for my radio fund(general for 2 months now and still no hf rig:angry: )and she did not reply.Guess I need to run it past her again. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[KG4CGC]

I agree with anyone who pointed out that the government is wasting waaay too much tax money going after the demon weed when there are so many other things that should be of a greater priority.
#Smoked demon weed in high school and quit after I graduated without a second thought to it. Been trying to quit cigs for the last 13 years and it's the biggest effing #B%&@h of all things unholy.

[al2i]

I hate pot. Well, actually I love it, but it makes me stupid, really stupid. In fact, most potheads are total dumbos after a while.

However, I plan to use pot heavily, or whatever else I damn well please when the doctor tells me I have six months to live.

If you feel a need to tell someone else here in the "home of the brave" what they can and cannot drink, smoke, swallow, or stick in their eyeball, then you need to go to a nice nazi or commie society where you will fit in. Otherwise, leave your stinking unAmerican controlling BS at the border. Thanks. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[KG4CGC]

The Chronic:
http://www.ganja.co.uk/cannabis-seeds/doggies-nuts-cannabis-seeds/images-large/chronic.jpg

The Chronic chronic:
http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~juicy/the%20chronic.jpg

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ July 21 2005,21:41)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ July 21 2005,22:28)]I spend (and this is no joke) over $1,000 a year on drinks, when water is free. That's a brand new IC-706MkIIg every year.
Try smoking 2 packs a day: $7.50 x 365*

OUCH!




WA5KRP
Texas


*you're on your own when it comes to math
I've cut WAY back on the smoking. (Er, and for the record, quit smoking that debil weed about 18 years ago). Quit smoking tobacco twice and need to go for round 3. The tobacco isn't such a big thing for me now, but I smoked 2 packs a day for a lotta years. Some say nicotine is as addictive as heroin. I've never tried heroin, but nicotine is plenty addictive -- moreso than alcohol, IMHO.

If we gave up all the stuff that's bad for us (and even the the stuff we ingest that isn't bad for us but is expensive), we could all probably retire a lot earlier.

"I gave up smoking, drinking and sex. It was the worst 15 minutes of my life." Forget who said that...

73, Rob

[W8EFA]

Rob, good luck. #I have very good willpower - enough to run Mini-marathons, get through college etc. #But I have been smoking for 30 years and I can not seem to quit. #Some reseach has been published showing Nicotine to be the most addictive drug next to Heroin and Morphine and I believe it!!

[KF3EG]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ July 21 2005,06:42)]Do you all suppose that there may be a connection that all marijuana users vote Democrat and can't learn code?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
That must be it, who would do that without being stoned http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


kf3eg

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ July 22 2005,17:03)]Rob, good luck. I have very good willpower - enough to run Mini-marathons, get through college etc. But I have been smoking for 30 years and I can not seem to quit. Some reseach has been published showing Nicotine to be the most addictive drug next to Heroin and Morphine and I believe it!!
EFA- I have ZERO willpower and have quit twice. Once for 3 months and later for a month (January, this year). The devil is in thinking you can have "just one" after you've quit.

The first trick here was to ban smoking in the house (XYL smokes, too). Tobacco smoke does horrible things to a house. So, the rule was "smoke all you want, but do it OUTSIDE." That cut things in half immediately. We still adhere to that rule. Y'know... I have a "white board" in the shack here that I make notes on. I went to erase it once and it wouldn't erase. The smoke made it "permanent." (Well, some 409 took care of that).

2-3 years ago, I went "all out" and got a prescription for Zyban (wellbutrin). This cost $125/mo and best I could tell, had no effect. Wellbutrin is a prescription antidepressant -- paying for it depressed me! The patch works for me, though. But the real trick is just cutting back and making it "inconvenient." And not starting back up once you've quit (that's where my lack of willpower comes in). Another thing that might help is switching to cheap cigars. No joke.

Today, my XYL and I smoke a little over a pack a day between us (and I know I smoke more than she does). On a typical work day, I leave for work at 5:30 AM and get home at about 3:30 PM. From the time I get in the car to leave till the time I arrive home, I don't smoke. Period. This is no longer even difficult.

I usually go to bed at 9 PM and get up at 4:30 AM, smoking isn't an issue there, either.

My best advice is to set up barriers. PLAY with the addiction like it's a toy. Experiment.

As for the pot.... I smoked pot almost daily for about 10 years. When the time came to give it up, it happened overnight and with little effect. Those who think pot is addictive need to consult their Funk & Wagnalls on the meaning of the word.

73, Rob

[N6WK]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ July 23 2005,04:55)]Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ July 22 2005,17:03)]Rob, good luck. I have very good willpower - enough to run Mini-marathons, get through college etc. But I have been smoking for 30 years and I can not seem to quit. Some reseach has been published showing Nicotine to be the most addictive drug next to Heroin and Morphine and I believe it!!
EFA- I have ZERO willpower and have quit twice. Once for 3 months and later for a month (January, this year). The devil is in thinking you can have "just one" after you've quit.

The first trick here was to ban smoking in the house (XYL smokes, too). Tobacco smoke does horrible things to a house. So, the rule was "smoke all you want, but do it OUTSIDE." That cut things in half immediately. We still adhere to that rule. Y'know... I have a "white board" in the shack here that I make notes on. I went to erase it once and it wouldn't erase. The smoke made it "permanent." (Well, some 409 took care of that).

2-3 years ago, I went "all out" and got a prescription for Zyban (wellbutrin). This cost $125/mo and best I could tell, had no effect. Wellbutrin is a prescription antidepressant -- paying for it depressed me! The patch works for me, though. But the real trick is just cutting back and making it "inconvenient." And not starting back up once you've quit (that's where my lack of willpower comes in). Another thing that might help is switching to cheap cigars. No joke.

Today, my XYL and I smoke a little over a pack a day between us (and I know I smoke more than she does). On a typical work day, I leave for work at 5:30 AM and get home at about 3:30 PM. From the time I get in the car to leave till the time I arrive home, I don't smoke. Period. This is no longer even difficult.

I usually go to bed at 9 PM and get up at 4:30 AM, smoking isn't an issue there, either.

My best advice is to set up barriers. PLAY with the addiction like it's a toy. Experiment.

As for the pot.... I smoked pot almost daily for about 10 years. When the time came to give it up, it happened overnight and with little effect. Those who think pot is addictive need to consult their Funk & Wagnalls on the meaning of the word.

73, Rob
Rob and Bill,
I smoked for almost 35 years. I played with Pot for about 5 years. Quitting pot was NO problem. Did it over night. Never even cared about it. Cigarettes on the other hand, that was tough. I quit for 18 months one time when I was about 38. then On my 40th birthday, we were all out celebrating and I decided to "have just one". yea right. next thing ya know I was back up to a pack a day. All smoking by the XYL and myself was done outside. That helped a lot! Well, about 6 years ago I did the Wellbutrin <sp> thing, helped but didn't finish the job, so I started the "Patch". I would wear the patch all day at work, then come home tear it off and smoke for the evening. then I would put the patch back on and go to bed. Did that routine for about a year. Then one day in March 2000 I decided "This is Stupid", So I took the Patch off, Threw away all the cigrettes and before I knew it, I was smoke free. Been that way every since March 18, 2000 at 9:30 am.. ( not that I am keeping track) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif The wife continued to smoke for about a year after I quit, but then she quit also. So Don't give up guys, it can be done but I will say it is a BITCH. You just have to be Stronger then it is. ( yea Easy for me to say now that I have quit)
Just set a date to quit, and STICK TO IT

Good Luck Guys... You CAN do it!!

Gordon

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (N6WK @ July 22 2005,22:31)]Rob and Bill,
I smoked for almost 35 years. I played with Pot for about 5 years. Quitting pot was NO problem. Did it over night. Never even cared about it. Cigarettes on the other hand, that was tough. I quit for 18 months one time when I was about 38. then On my 40th birthday, we were all out celebrating and I decided to "have just one". yea right. next thing ya know I was back up to a pack a day. All smoking by the XYL and myself was done outside. That helped a lot! Well, about 6 years ago I did the Wellbutrin <sp> thing, helped but didn't finish the job, so I started the "Patch". I would wear the patch all day at work, then come home tear it off and smoke for the evening. then I would put the patch back on and go to bed. Did that routine for about a year. Then one day in March 2000 I decided "This is Stupid", So I took the Patch off, Threw away all the cigrettes and before I knew it, I was smoke free. Been that way every since March 18, 2000 at 9:30 am.. ( not that I am keeping track) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif The wife continued to smoke for about a year after I quit, but then she quit also. So Don't give up guys, it can be done but I will say it is a BITCH. You just have to be Stronger then it is. ( yea Easy for me to say now that I have quit)
Just set a date to quit, and STICK TO IT

Good Luck Guys... You CAN do it!!

Gordon
Yup, definately agree, Gordon. Having done it twice, it seems the trick now isn't quite so much in the quitting, but avoiding going back. And as KRP mentioned, this is getting pretty expensive! Sin tax, ya know...? Even at a pack a day, that's $1200 a year...

73, Rob

[k4kyv]

Decades ago I used to smoke weed quite regularly, but rarely indulge now, because of the possible health effects of inhaling smoke with all the tar and other toxins. Never got in the habit of smoking cigarettes or other tobacco products, but I would get to the point where one cannabis session would give me a case of bronchitis that would last for days or even weeks, so I decided that my body was trying to tell me something. I just discontinued using the stuff with no withdrawal effects whatever, and I didn't really miss it.

If I happen to be where someone else is smoking the evil weed and someone offers me a "hit" I am not above taking a toke, but at my age that situation occurs very rarely.

I would rather see the government spend all those billions in an effort to eradicate poison ivy, than cannabis. That would eliminate infinitely more human misery than the current effort to stamp out pot.

[kb2vxa]

Hi pot heads and the misinformed,

I can flat out say and stand by my convictions that both the government AND NORML have their own agendas and spew propaganda based on experience, both that of clinical studies and personal. FYI, a study can serve to prove whatever you want depending on how it's done, the Rutgers University vs. rhesus monkeys study is classic. Pot can give you cancer if you smoke it continuously until you die from smoke inhalation poisoning, the human equivelent of over a pound a day. (gasp)

"I tried it once but I didn't inhale." (;->)

I used to "do it" in the 60s and 70s when half the population did and now won't admit to it. I stopped because it really did nothing for me, quit due to lack of interest. If it's so addictive then how come I'm not still a smoker? HUH?

I have read and understood the pharmacological data while helping a friend study for his board exams, I'm happy to say he's been an RP for 15 years now. Then there's the example of ingnorant bull-headedness arguing with an RP on page one. Just who studied the subject from how it's grown and it's properties and effects from joint to urine, you or the pharmacist?

Let me remind you that "the books" contain the truth and most, nearly all of you haven't read them but argue from absorbed propaganda from the side of your choice. From having "been there, done that" I can say in all sincerity that you are BOTH wrong. There is no inherent danger in any drug, only in how they're used or abused.

As for my personal opinion, there is absolutely no benefit in drug abuse, only harm. So called primitive peoples who rely on herbal medicine have known this since antiquity but modern Man somehow can't tell the difference. Here's some food for thought, a person who normally feels good takes a drug to feel better while a miserable person takes it to feel good. Obviously a miserable person has "issues" that cannot be addressed by drugs, they only make him more miserable in the long run. In the words of Dr. Timothy Leary, "You get out of it what you bring into it." which is why some have good trips while others have bummers.

Since we don't live in a perfect world where drugs can be used recreationally to enhance pleasure rather than inflicting pain (since we tend to abuse rather than use) they're best left in the hands of the physician. Ask any American Indian, they never had a drug or alcohol problem until the White Man came along, they left the drugs up to the wisdom of the shaman.

[w6ez]

Doodes!
Like man, pot don't make you stupid or nothing. Man, like it can make you tink or all kinds of real smart stuff and come up with new ideas too.
Man like I was at aparty once and a doode there was smoking and he figured out how like the government was telling everyone that pot and hemp were the same thing because like if everyone was growing thier own hemp and making like clothes and stuff out of it and then like smoking the leaves off the plants too they would be like taking a whole lot of like taxes away from the government and stuff.
And then if everyone was like taking taxes away from the government there wouldnt be no money to fight wars and stuff and then the government would have to leagalize pot just to keep everyone high so they would like be real mellow and stuff and not start no wars..and stuff.
So I think pot should be legalized and we should all like vote for George McGovern.
Dig?

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (w6ez @ July 25 2005,20:18)]Man like I was at aparty once and a doode there was smoking and he figured out how like the government was telling everyone that pot and hemp were the same thing because like if everyone was growing thier own hemp and making like clothes and stuff out of it and then like smoking the leaves off the plants too they would be like taking a whole lot of like taxes away from the government and stuff.
Actually, the most effective measure the government could take to fight domestically grown marijuana would be to legalise industrial hemp production.

Not only would it help the environment and save a lot of trees, it would make it very difficult to grow marijuana crops outdoors. It is not the same as the marijuana plant, but the two are closely enough related that hemp would spoil high quality marijuana crops by cross pollination. Pot growers would have to move their operations indoors wherever there was a nearby hemp farm. The industrial hemp plant has extremely low levels of THC, and is worthless as a drug source.

Now that tobacco use is being increasingly discouraged, maybe hemp would be a good substitute crop for tobacco farmers.

[KG4CGC]

The status quo will never allow any change that would threaten DuPont and others.
[edited for spelling]

[k6pme]

I'm 45 and I started smoking when I was 17. Those cigs are the devil incarnate when it comes to quitting. On the other hand, when I gave up someking pot (many many years ago) it was easy. I stopped smoking it.

Professionally speaking, when dealing with someone under the influence of a substance, I would MUCH rather deal with a 'stoner' than someone drunk, or on pills, or meth....

As for a medicinal value, the 'guvmint' party line means diddly squat compared to what a physician, hospital or other medical professional says. (that would include our favorite Pharmacist)

A government talking head or a research physician? Thats a slam dunk no brainer.

[JayTheHun]

Quote[/b] (WA5KRP @ July 21 2005,08:20)]Quote[/b] (KC7YRA @ July 21 2005,09:11)]K, I read the marinol pamphlet. It the lower right had corner about 3 or 4 paragraphs up from the bottom it says this product should not be used by people with a history of substance abuse. They are more prone to abuse this product. While its true that people can abuse anything this is kinda interesting.

And in my pharmacological experience I find other medications
far more effective in treating all sorts of disorders associated with chemo.
They would also be prone to abuse narcotic analgesics, hypnotics, and the minor tranquilizers (Xanax, Valium,etc) - should cancer patients with a history of substance abuse be deprived of these drugs?

What's out there for chemo patients that will stimulate their appetite? That is a huge problem for most of these folks.



WA5KRP
Texas

About 15-20 years ago I recall an article in Scientific American about a study that showed how people that are truly experiencing pain do not exhibit dependence on opiates (not to be confused with marijuana). So, given that, there should be even less concern that chemo patients become addicted.

Jay

K7sumpinsomeday

[W2LYS]

Daves not here, man...

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ July 19 2005,22:17)]you would not think this if you ever known anyone that was addicted to marijuana... Do not try to tell me it is NOT addictive.
Its as addictive as being in love.

[w4rot]

Stoned in love.
Got that BC touch to it.
Run with the addiction.
Ergot on rye wears off.
Love has no cure.
w4rot

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (W2LYS @ Aug. 02 2005,07:52)]Daves not here, man...
THC affects everyone differently. I was a THC addict in my senior year of High School, and I regret every microgram that got into my bloodstream.

Marijuana is extremely harmful. I think it should be legalized, but it is extremely harmful.

However someday, when the docs give me 3 months to live, I am going to try all of these illegal drugs just to see what the fuss is about. Ecstacy especially sounds intriguing. Maybe I can effectively kill myself as a rapturous thrill.

73,
Dave/al2i

[k6pme]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Aug. 03 2005,06:41)]Marijuana is extremely harmful. #I think it should be legalized, but it is extremely harmful.
Yea, I agree with that. But short of a 'Daniel Diet', what ISN'T harmful when over used or abused?

As I sit here I can feel my heart racing from too much caffiene this morning. Can't be good. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (WA5KRP @ July 21 2005,20:41)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ July 21 2005,22:28)]I spend (and this is no joke) over $1,000 a year on drinks, when water is free. #That's a brand new IC-706MkIIg every year. #
Try smoking 2 packs a day: # $7.50 x 365*

OUCH!




WA5KRP
Texas


*you're on your own when it comes to math
10.50*365 in my neck of the woods.

Say, if I sent you -- well, never mind.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ July 25 2005,19:30)]Here's some food for thought, a person who normally feels good takes a drug to feel better while a miserable person takes it to feel good. Obviously a miserable person has "issues" that cannot be addressed by drugs, they only make him more miserable in the long run.
Here's a possible mechanism in play.

The person who normally feels good takes a drug to feel better and becomes, over time, a miserable person who takes it to feel good.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (w6ez @ July 25 2005,20:18)]Doodes!
Like man, pot don't make you stupid or nothing. Man, like it can make you tink or all kinds of real smart stuff and come up with new ideas too.
Man like I was at aparty once and a doode there was smoking and he figured out how like the government was telling everyone that pot and hemp were the same thing because like if everyone was growing thier own hemp and making like clothes and stuff out of it and then like smoking the leaves off the plants too they would be like taking a whole lot of like taxes away from the government and stuff.
And then if everyone was like taking taxes away from the government there wouldnt be no money to fight wars and stuff and then the government would have to leagalize pot just to keep everyone high so they would like be real mellow and stuff and not start no wars..and stuff.
So I think pot should be legalized and we should all like vote for George McGovern.
Dig?
Exactly. Well put.

And, I voted for McGovern. Last Tuesday, right?

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Aug. 03 2005,07:41)]Marijuana is extremely harmful. I think it should be legalized, but it is extremely harmful.
Can you cite any independent research to back this up, Dave?

More to the point, I guess I should ask, harmful in what way? It certainly doesn't kill like alcohol or tobacco. I'm just wondering what your basis is for this statement. To my way of thinking, I can see the "harmful" part as debatable, but extremely harmful?

73, Rob

[ab8ma]

Just some Stuff from the web: Top hits on google "Marijuana IQ"

1. Workers distracted by phone calls, e-mails and text messages suffer a greater loss of IQ than a person smoking marijuana, a British study shows.

2. Email users suffered a 10 per cent drop in IQ scores, more than twice the fall recorded by marijuana users.

3. A study commissioned by Hewlett-Packard has found that excessive day-to-day use of technology - whether it's sending e-mails or using mobile phones - can be more distracting and harmful to the IQ than smoking marijuana.

[WA5KRP]

Can you spot which cat ate your stash?

http://rock103.com/pages/crew/pics/catstash1.jpg




WA5KRP
Texas

[w0aew]

Oh yeah?










Crap. I forgot what I was gonna say. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (WA5KRP @ Aug. 03 2005,18:39)]Can you spot which cat ate your stash?
It's the one on the far left, looking paranoid. The one in the middle is just clowning for the camera and the rest aren't paying attention.

Great to have you back, Danny!

73, Rob

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Aug. 03 2005,17:03)]3. A study commissioned by Hewlett-Packard has found that excessive day-to-day use of technology - whether it's sending e-mails or using mobile phones - can be more distracting and harmful to the IQ than smoking marijuana.
Wonder how harmful operating ham radio is to the IQ?

Does operating Morse code harm the IQ more, or less, than codeless operating?

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WA5KRP @ Aug. 03 2005,17:39)]Can you spot which cat ate your stash?

http://rock103.com/pages/crew/pics/catstash1.jpg




WA5KRP
Texas
The white one who is checking out the kitty tail in the room.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Aug. 03 2005,16:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Aug. 03 2005,07:41)]Marijuana is extremely harmful. I think it should be legalized, but it is extremely harmful.
Can you cite any independent research to back this up, Dave?
I have my own research. I was headed to college with great SAT scores, a nearly perfect memory, and then spent the next two years stoned, first on weed, then on hash, hash oil, and a couple of snortable, refined substances we referred to with the street names as "Cannib" and "THC". It took me until I was 26 to head back for more schooling.

As with most drugs, some people are not very affected. I however loved the high I got off of THC and constantly craved more. I have friends who used it without the descent into serious abuse and corresponding negative effects, however for me, it was unbelievably damaging. I don't need an independent study.

73,
Dave/al2i

[K0RGR]

I don't believe we need any more intoxicants in this country. 51% of the voters are already completely numb from the shoulders up, anyway. Why do we need more like that?

I do object to the outrageous cost of trying to stamp out the demon weed. The statistic is so unbelievable that I can't keep it in my mind, but the percentage of the adult male black population that has done time in prison for drug-related offenses is absolutely staggering. It's somewhere on the order of 1 in 4 or 5. These are ex-felons now, with criminal records that are going to make it much more likely that they will not be gainfully employed for the rest of their lives. We can't let up on the drug dealers, but we need to be catching the customers and dealing with them just as harshly, or not at all. If you can't cut off the supply, and we can't - you have to cut off the demand.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Aug. 03 2005,20:07)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Aug. 03 2005,16:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Aug. 03 2005,07:41)]Marijuana is extremely harmful. I think it should be legalized, but it is extremely harmful.
Can you cite any independent research to back this up, Dave?
I have my own research. I was headed to college with great SAT scores, a nearly perfect memory, and then spent the next two years stoned, first on weed, then on hash, hash oil, and a couple of snortable, refined substances we referred to with the street names as "Cannib" and "THC". It took me until I was 26 to head back for more schooling.

As with most drugs, some people are not very affected. I however loved the high I got off of THC and constantly craved more. I have friends who used it without the descent into serious abuse and corresponding negative effects, however for me, it was unbelievably damaging. I don't need an independent study.

73,
Dave/al2i
Thanks for the honesty, Dave. Of course, we weren't talking of hash or "snortable refined substances," but simply pot.

I loved the high, too, but never really took it to the next step. I smoked pot for quite a number of years in my "youth" and still managed to "pay taxes and get ahead."

I guess what I'm suggesting is that it wasn't the pot that was "extremely harmful" but the other things. Pot as a "gateway drug" is a different subject, and I'm sorry it had that effect on you. MOST people are not that affected. This just proves that you never know up-front. Some also drink alcohol all their life without ill-effect, too. Fat housewives and Beanie Babies; now, that's an ugly addiction with no future. (See how lucky you were?)

We'll have to get into the schooling stuff sometime.

73, Rob

[w6ez]

As far back in the history of mankind one cares to look, I think you will find we have been drinking, eating, snorting or smoking something to make us feel different.

Maybe it's just in our nature.

[KG4CGC]

Quote[/b] (w6ez @ Aug. 04 2005,10:44)]As far back in the history of mankind one cares to look, I think you will find we have been drinking, eating, snorting or smoking something to make us feel different.

Maybe it's just in our nature.
That's an objective observation and probably very very true.
I believe the real gateway drugs are Marlboro and Budwieser however, if the government has lied and keeps lying about pot and someone under the age of 18 or 21 tries it and discovers the lie, would that NOT prompt them to think that the government is ALSO lying about cocaine and other hard substances? Without the lies of the government there is no way that marijuana can even be considered as a gateway drug execpt for the fact that they made it one with their lies.

[kc7jty]

KF0RT:
I tried Moose Drool again. I think its pretty good now and will be drinking it again with a friend who loves the stuff. I guess I'm maturing beer taste wise.
Bill K

[n0ov]

Dave

It takes a big man to stand up and share your experiences on this post. Well done.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ Aug. 04 2005,14:13)]I tried Moose Drool again. I think its pretty good now and will be drinking it again with a friend who loves the stuff. I guess I'm maturing beer taste wise.
Right on, Bill. It's funny... When the XYL and I were sitting in that little tavern in Cooke City, MT, Moose Drool was the only thing I tried, and they had quite a selection of microbrews. I think it was the sign on the wall that made it impossible to resist. Good stuff in any case, and probably good stuff BY the case. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73, Rob

[KC0IVY]

I just finished reading the posts, and noticed that noboby thought of the big reason the gov't will not legalize it. Our gov't is not going to legalize something that they cannot control, and cannot realize a monetary gain by TAXIATION. There is no way they can control it. And what the gov't can't control, they will not legalize.



Gene

[K8YS]

Quote[/b] (KC0IVY @ Aug. 04 2005,21:15)]I just finished reading the posts, and noticed that noboby thought of the big reason the gov't will not legalize it. Our gov't is not going to legalize something that they cannot control, and cannot realize a monetary gain by TAXIATION. There is no way they can control it. And what the gov't can't control, they will not legalize.



Gene
of course they could control it, just like beer, booze, tobacco and guns.

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ Aug. 04 2005,21:22)]of course they could control it, just like beer, booze, tobacco and guns.
That's right. And they would tax it just like tobacco. They couldn't tax it excessively - people would grow there own. Those caught growing it without a permit would be subject to penalties.

All those details aside, the potential savings in terms of money wasted on law enforcement and incarceration would be enormous. ENORMOUS. But there's no way to put a dollar amount on the human misery associated with marijuana trafficking. And that could be eliminated virtually overnight with legalization.



WA5KRP
Texas

[KG4CGC]

Quote[/b] (KC0IVY @ Aug. 04 2005,22:15)]I just finished reading the posts, and noticed that noboby thought of the big reason the gov't will not legalize it. Our gov't is not going to legalize something that they cannot control, and cannot realize a monetary gain by TAXIATION. There is no way they can control it. And what the gov't can't control, they will not legalize.



Gene
If that were true then the only solution would be to outlaw an ineffectual government.

[w8znx]

big brother
loves you

the war on drugs will never end
can never be won !

would have thought
somebody
would have relised that after the Volsted act

you can not keep people from geting high

note
post by father of kid died from huffing

kid
would still be alive
if had been playing with
something safe like weed

just can not make drugs legal
there is too much money and power
in waging this never ending war

better we die from booz and tobaco
than get high from weed

think of all the money
spent by the DEA
all the cash and property grabed by law enforcement

the drug dealers and the cops
do not this war to end
better for them that it goes on forever

too much money to be made
by
locking up people that buy and sell drugs

mac

[al2i]

The drug war is perpetuated by small, statist minds that propagate the very thing that they seek to stamp out.

[WA5KRP]

http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/tsmtwilightzone.gif #


http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/ups/the_turtle/supasmsm0.gif #I don't remember doing that.



WA5KRP
Texas

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ Aug. 05 2005,02:20)]Quote[/b] (KC0IVY @ Aug. 04 2005,22:15)]I just finished reading the posts, and noticed that noboby thought of the big reason the gov't will not legalize it. Our gov't is not going to legalize something that they cannot control, and cannot realize a monetary gain by TAXIATION. There is no way they can control it. And what the gov't can't control, they will not legalize.



Gene
If that were true then the only solution would be to outlaw an ineffectual government.
With a good Marketing Dept., anything's possible.

In other words, how to spell disaster.

[KB9YCO]

The government? Lying? Surely you jest?!!
I'm still waiting for them to tell the truth about pretty much anything.
The drug war is a fallacy, always was, just like prohibition, if you don't seek to cure the root cause of the problem, and then incarcerate people with little or no rehabilitation, then the problem only increases. Pot being the least of the problems out there, alcohol and hard drugs being the worst (make no mistake alcohol is a hard drug), most of the drug war (and the war on pot which really isn't a drug by definition) is based on 75 year old propaganda and paranoia.
But hey, when you have a state like say ummm, TEXAS, where the former governor and his father legalized and invested heavily in privatization of prisons, it's just good business to keep busting people for some reason or another, real or imagined.
And let's see, to take a step furhter, who have we actually busted with the inaptly titled Patriot Act? Terrorists? Guess again, drug dealers and gang bangers, not that that's all bad, but it certainly wasn't it's intention, nor does it again solve the root cause of the problem. Some people never learn.
Those who IGNORE history doom the rest of us to repeat it.

[KB9YCO]

WAIT, I actually do remember one instance where the government told the truth, sadly it was over 60 years ago. It was called Hemp For Victory (http://www.globalhemp.com/Archives/Government_Research/USDA/hemp_for_victory.shtml), a film released by the United States Department of Agriculture. Unfortunately people these days don't seem to be able to seperate in their minds marijuana and hemp. While we waste our resources we have a yearly renewable source of fuel, fiber, paper, etc. that is completely forgotten. Remember hemp does not contain the chemical THC that causes the 'high' in marijuana.
So, I guess they did tell the truth, at least once.

[KA9VQF]

In the early to mid 60’s the local DNR would hire us youngsters to cut an gather the feral hemp that was growing along the railroad tracks and in swamps and other unused bits of land. We got $.50 a bushel.

When we would get a dump truck load of the stuff the fellows would take it away and burn it. I always wondered why they seemed so happy and had lots of munchies when they came back.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kb2vxa]

Hi again,

Here's another unfortunate example of ignorance. Sorry if it's out of context but the context is actually besides the point.

"It is not the same as the marijuana plant, but the two are closely enough related that hemp would spoil high quality marijuana crops by cross pollination."

First of all, marijuana (Spanish for Mary Jane) IS hemp, cannibis sativa linnae. Your confusion lies in cannibis indica linnae, the one having shorter fibers and a higher delta 9 tetra-hydra canibanol (THC) content. There are also genetically selected species as well as hybrids but I won't add to the confusion. (;->) The bottom line here is the hemp twine you tie packages with is marijuana (sativa l.) genetically selected for it's long fibers which BTW have practically zero THC content so don't bother smoking it.

Those familiar with George Washington and his personal diary especially know that he grew hemp to supply the shipping industry with rope. In his diary he mentions a special patch of genetically selected hemp he grew for "medicinal purposes". The quote is not something I made up, those are his words. Yeah, the original Dubya was a pot head. (Maybe that's why he instituted the liquor tax and started the Whiskey Rebellion.)

"Editor's note":
The tax was on alcohol, tobacco and firearms, the ATF is older than you think.

Hey, I like that photo of "This Bud's for you.", it clearly shows the flourescense of THC. Under UV or a strong light such as from a photographer's strobe it shows an opalescent greenish white glow, hence the name "Kryptonite" given to a hybrid otherwise known as "Skunk number 1". I tried it once and I can tell you WHY Kryptonite kicks the crap out of Superman. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[kb2vxa]

Hi again,

Quote (kb2vxa @ July 25 2005,19:30)
Here's some food for thought, a person who normally feels good takes a drug to feel better while a miserable person takes it to feel good. Obviously a miserable person has "issues" that cannot be addressed by drugs, they only make him more miserable in the long run.

"Here's a possible mechanism in play.

The person who normally feels good takes a drug to feel better and becomes, over time, a miserable person who takes it to feel good."

Sorry, not true, you misunderstand. A person who normally feels good has no need to take a drug, merely a desire. That means he is the occasional user who can do without it rather than the habitual user who can't. The difference is in psychological make-up, that was my point all along. There's a BIG difference between the one who has a few hits at a party and the one puffing his way to mental oblivion.

"When we would get a dump truck load of the stuff the fellows would take it away and burn it. I always wondered why they seemed so happy and had lots of munchies when they came back."

That reminds me of those fabulous 60s and the abandoned garbage incinerator in Jersey City NJ. The county narcotics unit used it to burn confiscated drugs, primarily pot, but since the gas supply wasn't working it made plenty of smoke. One day the wind shifted and sent the smoke through the city, panicked little old ladies flooded the hospital while the hippies danced in the streets. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ Aug. 05 2005,19:06)]"Editor's note":
The tax was on alcohol, tobacco and firearms, the ATF is older than you think.
Seen on a T-shirt for sale at a conservative web site:

"Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency."

Kinda left the neo-cons in the dust with that one. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(Yes, I want one!)

73, Rob

[KG4CGC]

Stupid Monkeys!