EchoLink and Emily

[N5PVL]

Hurricane Emily affected deep south Texas today with high winds, rain and tornadoes.

The local repeater was made almost useless for emergency communications during the weather events related to hurricane Emily, due to EchoLink- related QRM.

It started off OK , but hams who live up north but have resort property down here kept hooking up on EchoLink to ask about the weather, and worrying at length onair about their property.

At one point, two of them recognized each other and had a nice 40 minute QSO. Both were located way up north, far from the hurricane of course.

I sat in my shack and watched tree limbs being blown down in my yard and was unable to report the severe winds in downtown San Benito because of "old home week" between these two Internet chatters who were thoughtless enough to tie up our repeater during the storm. - You literally couldn't get a word in edgewise.

Neither one of them, by the way, was on a radio - but they sure managed to tie a perfectly good repeater up during an emergency. - Thanks to EchoLink!

"Yes, I like that brand of RV too, They are really nice inside, except the shower etc etc etc... Hey, this EchoLink sure is a great advance in radio technology! etc etc etc..."

Between that noise and the constant beeps and boops as various boobs around the world decided to hook up to a repeater in an emergency area, it got to where as the day went on, less and less of the hams who actually live here would bother to monitor the dern thing. Simplex beckoned.

Finally it happened... Some clown hooked up on EchoLink asking about the weather - and he got no answer. Everybody had either been run off to using simplex or they were like me and will not encourage that kind of behavior. Whatever the case was, he got no answer.

Rule one for EchoLink during an emergency: Turn EchoLink off.

If you have Internet access, there are a number of more sensible and reliable methods of moving information at your command than Echolink. Do not risk people's lives and property just so you can say that what you are doing is "Ham Radio". - Especially when it isn't.

Use the Internet responsibly. Use it effectively.

Do you have a story about EchoLink endangering lives and property during an emergency? Let's hear about it! #

I have a feeling that this is not a rare, isolated case here in deep south Texas.

Charles Brabham, #N5PVL

Director: USPacket (http://www.uspacket.org)
Admin: HamBlog.Com (http://www.hamblog.com)
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com (http://www.hampoll.com)

[WZ4I]

Dang! Too bad KF4VGX can't post.

He'd set ya straight in a heartbeat.

[KA8NCR]

That does sound pretty inconsiderate. I'm not a fan of echolink point-to-point or pc-to-repeater contacts. Why didn't the trustee just pull the ethernet on 'em?

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kb4qlz @ July 20 2005,17:52)]Dang! Too bad KF4VGX can't post.

He'd set ya straight in a heartbeat.
So true. Everyone would have been 20lbs on the old s meter.

[N5PVL]

When two "hams" both on computers instead of radios talk to each other over somebody's EchoLink repeater, the radio component of the repeater is not used in the communication process at all. Instead, the repeater broadcasts an ongoing Internet chat.

There are other, more advanced Internet chats that do not tie up a perfectly good repeater, or put a repeater trustee into the position of being a broadcaster.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ July 20 2005,18:58)]When two "hams" both on computers instead of radios talk to each other over somebody's EchoLink repeater, the radio component of the repeater is not used in the communication process at all. Instead, the repeater broadcasts an ongoing Internet chat.

Charles Brabham, #N5PVL

Director: USPacket (http://www.uspacket.org)
Admin: HamBlog.Com (http://www.hamblog.com)
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com (http://www.hampoll.com)
Yep, and for all practical purposes it should be considered tying up a repeater for no reason.

[KE7CWB]

the trustee should have pulled his echolink connection from the repeater.

could have broken into their QSO and explain that this repeater was supposed to be used for emergency contacts?

Though definately suggest to the trustee that he unplug the echolink during emergency ops

[kj5t]

I am not against Echolink, but that was not right. Now a different situation like that could have been a tool. Say the echolink set-up uses cable internet, the cable internet stays up, but the telephone service goes down. Someone needs to get a phone message to the north. Someone on their computer can relay that information.

Echolink can be a tool, when used right. What those guys did was not right, and they might as well been using MSN voice chat.

[KG6YTZ]

These two couldn't have just connected directly to each other? They HAD to use the repeater? Did they know they could move to "simplex," as it were? If not, then they REALLY need to read the EchoLink manual. Did they even realize what their connection path was? How many inbound EchoLink connections can that repeater accept? If it's more than two and nobody could get through their junk via RF, couldn't someone else have logged in via EchoLink and set these dimbulbs straight?

Many questions... Some have already been asked.

[N8CPA]

Thus the danger of intermeshing an amorphous network with infrastructure. Way to go Amateur wirelessless!

[ad4mg]

This illustrates how the integration of the internet into amateur radio is flawed. #In Emergency Communications, during an emergency, there is little room for error.

This isolated incident will become commonplace on amateur radio as time passes. #All the amateur radio service has left to justify it's existence is emergency communications. #Now it appears we will no longer be able to even do this correctly.

The huge influx of codeless HF operators with this integration in mind will amplify this problem. #Nobody is going to argue that there will be a huge increase in HF operators now that the CW requirement will be dropped. #How many of these new operators, now having the necessary priviledges, will demand their free internet e-mail service over their new allocations? #Even Winlink and similar networks, designed to provide emergency communications (so they say) will be rendered ineffective.

Look out Steve (k4cjx), your going to be very busy, very soon.

This incident should serve as a warning shot. #I'm not going to argue that change is not necessary, but if that change reduces our ability to provide emergency communications where life and property are at stake, then what is gained? #The new blood coming into this hobby (no longer a "service" in my mind) had better take notice and rethink some of their intentions. #The old guard is being removed, and with new priviledges come new responsibilities. #I would not want my name associated with the group held responsible for the death of amateur radio due to incompetence like this.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing is "free". #The new and improved amateur radio hobby had better take notice, else it will be a very short ride.

[KC5SAS]

Net Control should have shut down the link temporarily. Shut it down and after a couple of minutes the link could be reestablished with the stations operating within the affected area. Letting a couple of idiots take over your repeater for 40 minutes is uncalled for.
I've monitored the huricanes last year via ECHOLINK and the Net Controls always had the ability to close the link or boot unwanted stations.
"All Stations. This is a directed net for the purpose of relaying storm related traffic only. Only stations with priority traffic will be allowed on this repeater."
Simple.
Sounds like your guys just lost control.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (KC5SAS @ July 21 2005,08:45)]Net Control should have shut down the link temporarily. #Shut it down and after a couple of minutes the link could be reestablished with the stations operating within the affected area.
This is the crux of the situtation: this unwholesome situation resulted from operator failure. Blaming EchoLink is foolish.

EchoLink, like it or not, is just another tool that must be regulated by those who use it. In this case, the repeater's link to EchoLink should have been closed by the repeater's contol operator. No brainer.

The fault is not with EchoLink, but with an individual who failed to carry out his/her obligation.

But, of course, that does not make as hot a topic for those who cannot see forests for the trees.

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ July 21 2005,08:55)]Quote[/b] (KC5SAS @ July 21 2005,08:45)]Net Control should have shut down the link temporarily. #Shut it down and after a couple of minutes the link could be reestablished with the stations operating within the affected area.
This is the crux of the situtation: this unwholesome situation resulted from operator failure. Blaming EchoLink is foolish.

EchoLink, like it or not, is just another tool that must be regulated by those who use it. In this case, the repeater's link to EchoLink should have been closed by the repeater's contol operator. No brainer.

The fault is not with EchoLink, but with an individual who failed to carry out his/her obligation.

But, of course, that does not make as hot a topic for those who cannot see forests for the trees.
Good morning Albert. #You are right on target. #It was operator error on the contol op's part. #Which proves exactly what I stated a few minutes ago.

"With new priviledges come new responsibilities."

Failure to accept these responsibilities will result in this isolated incident becoming commonplace.

Additionally, that same control operator should make every effort to contact the operators who caused the problems and educate them about correcting their errors.

73,
Luke

[W3MIV]

I agree entirely, Luke.

This brings to the fore the issue that those folks who have gained some experience in the ins and outs of operating finesse need to become ever more involved in helping newbies to become acquainted with the responsibilities -- the first among which is TO THINK -- that make this kind of occurrence an anomaly rather than the norm.

The need for Elmers will never have been greater than in the next few months, years, whatever.

[N5PVL]

Amateurs read and hear all of the hysterical pro-EchoLink propaganda, and ( surprise! ) they leave the stuff on during emergencies, thinking that this is the clever thing to do.

Most of the QRM was from the "rubberneckers", a cadre of EchoLink devotees who just can't wait to plug in at the latest EchoLink hot-spot, where something like a hurricane might be going on. We heard beeps, boops, and snatches of morse code constantly from this kind of visitor. Whether they use their computer's microphone to ask about the weather or not, they still add to the noise level and confusion already present at any emergency, and interfere with ongoing communications more often than not.

One of the two hams who dominated the repeater for so long made the same reference about EchoLink two times; "It sure is great that EchoLink is here so that we guys who are not at the scene of the emergency can get information." You could tell that he was all puffed up about parroting that phrase, as if he was sure he was making a real point there.

Yet he made these statements while he was talking to another Internet chatter also living far away from the scene of the emergency. He wasn't hearing anything from where the hurricane was going on as he bragged about #- and neither was anybody else - precisely because of the EchoLink setup he was bloviating about.

Yes, limbs were being blown down in my yard and I was hoping my antenna would stay up as I sat and listened to all of this fine EchoLink propaganda - and so was prevented from using the repeater during an emergency.

If I had been the control operator of the repeater, I can assure all readers here that there would have been no EchoLink or other non-ham stuff on that repeater before, during, or after the emergency. - But it is not my repeater, and between EchoLink QRM sessions it was much better to have around than nothing.

If the control operator erred, it was in taking the EchoLink propaganda at face value and assuming that by leaving it on during an emergency, he was doing the right thing.

I don't blame the repeater's control operator, or even the two "old home week" blabbers nearly as much as I blame the EchoLink propagandists whose BS created the situation in the first place. They are the ones who really put lives and property at risk in deep south Texas. - And potentially at many other places where thier promotional fantasies have been taken at face value by trusting hams.

I remember hearing about EchoLink during a big blackout in the northeast. Most of them were dead in the water since thier Internet connections were gone of course - and the few who did retain an Internet connection were rapidly overwhelmed by rubberneckers and various well-meaning or curious idiots from around the world.

Imagine what kind of harm could be done to such a system deliberately... Is this kind of vulnerability what we really want for Ecomms?

[N8CPA]

At least with WL2K, the yachters email would get through--despite the land EMERGENCY. :rock:

[kf4lne]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ July 20 2005,10:47)]Between that noise and the constant beeps and boops as various boobs around the world decided to hook up to a repeater in an emergency area, it got to where as the day went on, less and less of the hams who actually live here would bother to monitor the dern thing. Simplex beckoned.
Rude, very rude. That should be considered malicious interference

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ July 21 2005,10:11)]Amateurs read and hear all of the hysterical pro-EchoLink propaganda... ..........

Is this kind of vulnerability what we really want for Ecomms?

Charles Brabham, #N5PVL

Director: USPacket (http://www.uspacket.org)
Admin: HamBlog.Com (http://www.hamblog.com)
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com (http://www.hampoll.com)
Charles: You could save yourself a whole lot of typing by simply using an easy code:

EchoLink Speech #1 would be the rant I just snipped.

WinLink Speech #2 would be your usual diatribe against WL2K.

TAPR Speech #3 would be your usual diatribe against the folks who asked you to vacate.

etc.

Save us and yourself, OM.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n0ov]

Was there a controlled net going on? Did anyone ask them to stop their QSO? What about the repeater control operator -- anyone think to disable Echolink?

I do not use echolink but view it as a potential useful tool in the tool bag during an emergency. Echolink was not the issue hear, it was undisciplined operators not taking time to think the radio may be needed by others during an emergency.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (w0pee @ July 21 2005,11:29)]Was there a controlled net going on? #Did anyone ask them to stop their QSO? #What about the repeater control operator -- anyone think to disable Echolink?

I do not use echolink but view it as a potential useful tool in the tool bag during an emergency. #Echolink was not the issue hear, it was undisciplined operators not taking time to think the radio may be needed by others during an emergency.
How dare you intrude on the uninspired and uninspiring genesis of this thread with mere logic and reason!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K0RGR]

I think you probably have a point here, Charles. I published the control code to shut my link off years ago, and some jerko, probably inspired by your anti-Echolink propaganada, kept shutting the thing off, so I changed the code and only give it out to club officers and members of the technical committee and ARES officials now. But, those of us with Echolink nodes should check occasionally to be sure that lots of folks know how to shut it down. Echolink nodes should also have an INDEPENDENT control link that can shut them down without depending on the repeater input frequency in case of malfunction or deliberate jamming, just like a repeater - mine does. Echolink has a provision to be securely controlled from a web browser, and trusted people should have that capability. We do shut ours down during controlled nets and other events.

[KC5SAS]

How about posting the callsigns of the 2 A$$hats that took over the ECHOLINK connection for so long so that we can properly ridicule them. Once we know who they are we can find pictures of them and photoshop the images so they may be added to the photo albums of numerious websites alongside Half-Shirt guy and the HamScooter gang.

[K0RGR]

Actually, it turns out that there was supposed to be a controlled net - the VOIP WX NET on EchoLink, and there were supposed to be rotating net control operators. If they were running that on the only 2 meter repeater in the area, that was a pretty poor choice. The only reports I've seen so far are that it was pretty much dead in terms of activity at the time the hurricane came ashore, so they shut it down fairly early. Their version of events may be somewhat different.

[N5PVL]

K0RGR says:
Quote[/b] ]
Actually, it turns out that there was supposed to be a controlled net - the VOIP WX NET on EchoLink, and there were supposed to be rotating net control operators.


Oh, that group... Those folks are a cllique of obnoxious jerks who nobody here will associate with anymore, but they are well-connected up north and get most of the credit for what other hams do down here.

The incompetent clowns couldn't find anybody to work with them, so they took turns being the net control amongst themselves. They lost thier Internet connection early on ( nobody else that I know of did at that time ) then they dithered around an hour or so and decided to just go home and relax.

Tornadoes, bands of heavy rain and high winds kept right on going throughout the Lower Rio Grande Valley that afternoon, but STX ARES took a powder early and threw in the towel. Later on I heard a NWS guy looking for them on the repeater and not having any luck.

This is the deep south Texas ARES group I'm talking about. - It's a local joke, or would be if there was anything funny about it.

The Cameron County EC stole over $2,000.00 from one of the local clubs in that county a few years back, for example. The Willacy County EC doesn't live in Willacy county, but he is part of this clique so details like that can be kind of glossed over. The OO down here is involved, as are most if not all of the ARES group here. The assistant section manager K5DG defrauded a local ham club a few years back, filling in his friends' names instead of the club's elected officers on the club's incoporation papers when he was entrusted to renew them with the state capital at Austin... An election had not gone his way, and so he thought that fraud was the answer.

We all just kind of ignore them. - They make a lot of noise and snatch up credit for what others do, and get away with it because they are well-connected up in Austin.

There's nothing that can be done about it, so we do what we can outside of ARES, which is FUBAR here in deep south Texas.

I know what real ARES groups are like as I used to participate in SKYWARN when I lived up in north Texas ( tornado alley ) and this group here is not anything like the real thing.

Charles Brabham, #N5PVL

Director: USPacket (http://www.uspacket.org)
Admin: HamBlog.Com (http://www.hamblog.com)
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com (http://www.hampoll.com)

[N5PVL]

KC5SAS says:
Quote[/b] ]
How about posting the callsigns of the 2 A$$hats that took over the ECHOLINK connection for so long so that we can properly ridicule them.

I know both of those hams... One is an elderly gentleman living up north and the other is an idiot, also living up north.

I am reserving the pleasure of gigging the idiot for myself, in private, when he returns to this area for the winter. I do not think the elderly ham should be either blamed or pestered at all, and I wouldn't stand by to see that happen.

[WA5KRP]

PVL,


I find your experience appalling to say the least. #If you haven't already done so, PLEASE report this incident to QST. #Not to drop those ops or repeater trustee in the grease, but to make folks aware of what NOT TO DO with EchoLink when a repeater is situated in an area requiring emergency communications.

You have a very important lesson for the entire amateur community and it needs to be heard.



WA5KRP
Texas

[N5PVL]

WA5KRP says:
Quote[/b] ]
You have a very important lesson for the entire amateur community and it needs to be heard.

I think that this kind of incident goes unreported much more often than not, for a variety of reasons. - You don't want to embarass a fellow ham who made a mistake, or you don't want EchoLink to look bad, or whatever.

I seriously doubt that QST would publish such a 'negative' view of EchoLink, safety and good operating practice be damned. It would run counter to the Intergration of the Internet and Ham Radio propaganda the ARRL is currently pumping out. They would view such a report as being counterproductive in relation to thier primary agenda.

It seems like I've seen not one, but several polls where the amateurs polled here and elsewhere overwhelmingly voted for the ARRL and its officers to promote Ham Radio, not the Internet but I guess we cannot expect the ARRL to let a little thing like the opinions of the hams they claim to 'represent' get in the way of thier in-house agenda.

[WA5KRP]

PVL,


I sent the following email to Jim Haynie, Coy Day, Ray Taylor, and Dave Woolweaver:

Quote[/b] ]Hi guys,


As Emily moved ashore in northeastern Mexico, the Rio Grande Valley was significantly impacted by high winds, flooding, and tornadoes. Check out this incident reported by N5PVL, Charles Brabham, in the "Talk and Opinions - Amateur Radio" forum on QRZ.com:


http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin....t=96901 (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=96901)


Personally, I don't think there was any malicious intent to interfere with EComs. But I think people are unaware of the potential harm they may do using EchoLink during (potential) emergency situations.

The point of this email is to ask your assistance in getting this incident written up as an example of WHAT NOT TO DO WITH ECHOLINK DURING AN EMERGENCY in QST. The amateur community needs to be made aware of this bad operating practice and strongly discourage it. Anybody that reads about what happened in this incident will think twice before keying up EchoLink during an emergency, and hopefully it will make repeater trustees more mindful of their charge.



73


Danny McCarty
WA5KRP
San Antonio

It remains to be seen what good it will do, but I just can't sit back and do nothing. That incident should have NEVER happened.



WA5KRP
Texas

[N5PVL]

I'll bet it happens all the time, but generally goes unreported.

I wouldn't have reported it either, except I remember how useful that repeater used to be.

The problem with persons who would interconnect the Internet with Amateur Radio is that they forget the Internet's power. - In the old days, you might encounter one or maybe two clueless jerks or malicious troublemakers during the course of an emergency situation on the repeater. - But now, thanks to the miracle of EchoLink, you have a global pool of clueless jerks and malicious troublemakers that have been given access to your repeater!

Ain't progress grand? #You get like multi-mega- rubberneckers! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

It would be funny if it weren't lives and property we were talking about being effected here.

Charles Brabham, #N5PVL

Director: USPacket (http://www.uspacket.org)
Admin: HamBlog.Com (http://www.hamblog.com)
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com (http://www.hampoll.com)

[N5PVL]

Throughout this topic, the subjects of training and peer pressure keep coming up, and those suggestions honor time-proven methods that have served amateur radio very well for many years.

When systems that integrate Amateur Radio with the Internet are being considered though, we cannot depend upon training methods that have served us well in the past, nor can we depend upon peer pressure to have the same impact we are used to seeing.

The social aspect of repeater operation is altered by Internet integration to the extent that peer pressure loses much of its previous effectiveness, becoming watered down to almost nothing when the repeater has hundreds of thousands of potential users from all over the globe instead of a small, local and known group of hams.

If we assume that one ham out of one hundred is a troublemaker of some kind, then a stand-alone repeater can count on having from 1/3 of a troublemaker up to two or maybe three of them in a busy metro area.

An Internet-integrated repeater, no matter where it may be located, #is accessable to thousands of potential troublemakers from all over the globe, all the time. - This is the power of the Internet that 'Ham/Internet integrationists' tend to play down or ignore.

Tools serve us by magnifying our abilities, or giving us new powers that we were not gifted with by nature. ( I would argue that since we are natural, then so are our tools but that's just me. )

This magnifying effect is what makes a chainsaw a great labor-saver but also a great danger. - You can cut down a tree in minutes but if you grab the wrong end of the chainsaw, it will take your fingers off just as efficiently.

Generally speaking, both the danger and utility a tool offers is related to the level of magnification it offers. A rifle chambered in .458 magnum provides more 'magnification' and so it will do more - and is more dangerous - than the Daisy Red-Ryder lever-action BB gun.

Amateurs grabbed the wrong end of a very powerful tool with our very first effort at integration of Amateur Radio with the Internet, way back when it was only universities, large corporations and the government that had Internet access. At universities here and there around the USA, the first Packet/Internet gateways were being established.

Prior to the establishment of these first gateways, the heaviest traffic load on the US Packet network was the @ALLUS Packet distribution. - SYSOPs used to gripe all the time about the load it represented.

The first Packet/Internet gateways eliminated @ALLUS as the big problem when they introduced all of Europe's traffic into our already at-capacity system with a sudden, overnight flood of @WW bulletins. That was the beginning of the end for the US Packet network as we had known it in its prime.

When Internet access became generally available to the public, Packet/Internet gateways proliferated here in the US and soon almost totally undermined the digital net here in the US, with the result we are all familiar with.

At the same time, in Europe the Packet/Internet gateways were regulated and so while we stagnated and decayed for a decade, they continued right on advancing and growing. #

The Europeans avoided grabbing the Internet tool by the wrong end, but we did not. The results speak for themselves.

Now, despite all the hype ( Packet/Internet gateways were hyped-up too ) the dangerous "wrong end" of Internet repeater linking is just now starting to be noticed.

My point here is that it is about time we reconsidered 'Integration of Amateur Radio with the Internet' #and started shifting our focus back to Amateur Radio where it belongs.

In the long run, I think we will discover that for every benefit that integration offers, it will also give us an unforeseen danger to deal with, a liability that makes the overall concept of questionable value to us as Amateurs. - Especially since it tends to break down our social system in various ways, endangering and undermining the hobby.

It simply isn't worth it, more often than not. The price is too high, the benefit too nebulous to seriously consider. It tends to backfire and embarrass us, undermine our sense of mission.

That's not what we need right now, and I am sure that is why the polls all say the same thing; - That the ARRL staff should concentrate on promoting the use of Amateur Radio and let the Internet take care of itself.

Nobody in Congress, in the FCC , or anywhere else is impressed with what we do with the Internet. - They all want to know what we are doing with Radio.

There are already sufficient facilities for training Internet technicians, and it's a trained pool of radio operators we are supposed to be maintaining in the first place, not IP techs.

Think it through... When things get complicated and dangerous you should always go back to the heart, back to your prime motivation and reason for being.

Let's get back to seeing what we can do with Radio. In this day and age, staying on-mission should be job number one.

[n0ov]

Ok, what's your point in 3 lines or less

[wa4brl]

Quote[/b] ]Ok, what's your point in 3 lines or less
Cut the cord.
Stand on your own.
Become one with your RF.

[N5PVL]

That was pretty good.

[WA5KRP]

PVL,

You're an asset to amateur radio. NICE YOB. Glad you're out there.



WA5KRP
Texas

[kj5t]

@PVL

I still think that Echolink can indeed be a tool, and also fun. No its not as fun as RF, but for instance my friend in Maryland who taking her tech test on Tuesday will be able to use her HTX-202 and connect to my link, I will then be on my radio talking to maryland. Yes there is a gateway, the internet. No its as fun as using the radio. But until she gets her general and an HF set-up, that will be the only form of radio in which we will be able to use. She is currently also working on her morse, and has been working it. I am Extra class, and have taken the morse. Echolink is not for any lower class hams, but a tool we can use. Like the Texas lynx system, which links up repeaters all around Texas. Echolink is the same concept, yet like the internet itself, links hams from all over the world. That does not mean that it will kill RF, and I am not fearful of the internet.

As a SYSOP of an echolink node (KD5OWO-L it is offline when I am not on echolink, it uses a simplex channel, and I monitor the simplex channel for atleast 10 minutes before turning on the node) I know that I can limit connection to 1 person. Therefore my friend can connect to me, and we can chat. If its a repeater, you can limit it two 1 or more people. You can also kick anyone. I can kill the node remotly, using my DTMF pad. A repeater trustee can do the same. That will keep what happened the other day from happening.

[KC5SAS]

Wow. Your signature is almost as long as your entire post.

[kf4lne]

Quote[/b] (wa4brl @ July 22 2005,16:59)]Quote[/b] ]Ok, what's your point in 3 lines or less
Cut the cord.
Stand on your own.
Become one with your RF.
I am inclined to agree with that

[kj5t]

Quote[/b] (KC5SAS @ July 23 2005,12:48)]Wow. Your signature is almost as long as your entire post.
Used all the characters allowed.. down to where it said "Zero Characters Left". Hey, its allowed.

I am with ECI.. the SYSOP should have pulled the link. I don't agree with what the guys did, but the SYSOP should have pulled the link.

[N5PVL]

I always thought OWO's signature was cool.

Getting back closer to the topic, I just received an email from a local ham who is also outraged at the local ARES situation in deep south Texas being as it is, but who sees it from a different perspective. - His report goes far in explaining why I heard an NWS guy on the local repeater, looking for ARES and not finding them:

Quote[/b] ]

Echolink was not the only internet problem during Emily. The local ARES idiots were using IRLP to keep intouch with the NHC. the hook-up went down and presto the head idiot N5SIM left the EOC to see if he could get the thing back up and working, while at the same time the local backbone for the repeater link that links the valley together went down. Now all the repeaters being used for the emergency net were stand alone repeaters and the EOC's could not talk to each other as before. Now you would think that it would be more important to get the RF up and going before the internet to the NHC. Well not here. They finally got the backbone up and working today. What a bunch of glory seeking idiots we have here in deep south texas. ARES is a big joke here along with RACES. The whole group is a joke.

When the linked system went down, the wide-coverage system I was on became the best Valley-wide VHF communications system at our disposal. This was not anticipated... ( Emergencies are full of surprises like that. )

Now I know why the NWS guy was looking for the ARES group on the wrong repeater, and why the EchoLink stuff had been left on there. Note that the ARES group never considered utilizing the wide-coverage repeater to continue thier work as best they could, after the linked system they maintain fell down... You know... Like they were primarily interested in saving lives and property, or something like that?

It appears that all thought of radio communications, public service etc. completely left thier heads as soon as thier invaluable Internet connection went down. - They didn't even prioritize getting thier own repeaters back online, much less go on to utilize the wide area repeater that was available and functional ( though QRM'ed as I reported ) throughout the day.

Thier false report of shutting down due to a lack of weather to report is typical of this group. There was plenty of weather that day - Just no ARES.

Sorry, that was an insult to great ARES folks everywhere... What I should have said was "no ARESCOM".

A real ARES group would have hung in there and worked with whatever was still at hand, in the great tradition of that service. Obviously the NWS was capable of using the wide-area repeater because I heard them on there. The only thing that prevented south Texas ARESCOM from using it too was their preoccupation with 'Integrating Amateur Radio with the Internet' instead of just acting like hams.

ARESCOM ? #- So far all I have seen is an unseemly and foolish dependence upon the Internet, linked with a basic inability to work cooperatively with others. When that Internet link goes down, panic and disorder follows.

Is this really what we want for our ECOMMs? #- Groups that lie about the weather not being there, and ignore thier RF situation in thier panic-driven hysteria to get that invaluable Internet link going again?

This is a situation created ( in part ) by ARESCOM. - A real ARES group would never have quit - and would never have had any non-ham shenannigans to lie about in the first place.

[N5PVL]

From the web page "Ethics - Section Manager and Section Staff" :http://www.qsl.net/n5lyg/official/ethics.htm

Quote[/b] ]You are an elected official of ARRL, an amateur radio organization -- your decisions must be for the good of ARRL and its members and there should be no opportunity for criticism that your decisions have benefited you or any small circle of your friends.

The entire deep south Texas ARES group, inluding the DEC, the asssisant DEC, and the EC's of Hildalgo, Cameron and Willacy counties are all involved in a clique ( small circle of friends ) that has taken over the entire ARES organization here in deep south Texas, contrary to ARES' published ethic.

In an earlier post, I mentioned:
Quote[/b] ]
The Cameron County EC stole over $2,000.00 from one of the local clubs in that county a few years back, for example. The Willacy County EC doesn't live in Willacy county, but he is part of this clique so details like that can be kind of glossed over. The OO down here is involved, as are most if not all of the ARES group here. The assistant section manager K5DG defrauded a local ham club a few years back, filling in his friends' names instead of the club's elected officers on the club's incoporation papers when he was entrusted to renew them with the state capital at Austin... An election had not gone his way, and so he thought that fraud was the answer.


The Club that Tom Tanner K5DG defrauded was TSARC (http://www.tsarcinc.com) ( Texas Southmost Amateur Radio Club ). The club that Greg Sargent KA0ARS ( now EC of Cameron county ) stole over $2,000.00 dollars from was - you guessed it! The same club.

KA0ARS had been the club treasurer for two years, and when K5DG defrauded the club KA0ARS left with him, cleaning out the club's bank account on the way. - He got away with just over $2,000.00, by our best estimate.

KA0ARS is currently the EC of Cameron county, the county that TSARC is located in. - Want to take a guess as to why this ARES group has trouble finding volunteers?

In fact, the "small circle of friends' that K5DG put into the club's incorporation papers instead of the club's elected officers include all of the present members of the deep south Texas ARES group, inluding the present DEC ( Toby Driscoll N5SIM ), the asssisant DEC ( K5DG ) , along with the EC's of Hildalgo and Cameron counties. The OO down here ( John Teer AK5Z ) is also named on that document, as he is in cahoots with this group as well.

Can you say - 'conspiracy to commit fraud' ?

Will ARES do anything to clean up STX ARES? #- The story I keep hearing is that members of this group are well-connected with the ARES bigshots in Austin and San Antonio and so there is little if any chance of correcting this problem.

With ARES in deep south Texas undermined and corrupted this way, what are we supposed to do when another hurricane comes along?

P.S. : It would be nice to have a legitimate OO down here, too. AK5Z is, as they say, a 'joke' and his association with this clique does not recommend him to this important position at all. - We need a real OO in the Lower Rio Grande Valley, someone who will actually do the job, not just take on the honors.

[K0RGR]

Things sure sound interesting in Texas. I think I'll stick to working on the problems up here. But I will lock that WX net out of my Echolink node so nobody accidently dials it up during the next storm, just in case.

[KC5SAS]

Seems to me the ARES monoploy isn't getting the job done for you and it's time for some healthy competition. Those who are unhappy with the way STX ARES is going should peel off and start their own groups. Nobody said ARES is the only way to go. Leave the Clique to play by itself while you get on with the important business of public service to your citizens. Form a separate Group, elect your own officers, get trained and equipted. When you are ready, offer your services to those who can benefit from them.
Give REACT a call. http://www.reactintl.org They are always looking to get a few new Teams started. Join SATERN or another established group. You have other choices.

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] (KC5SAS @ July 25 2005,10:29)]Seems to me the ARES monoploy isn't getting the job done for you and it's time for some healthy competition. Those who are unhappy with the way STX ARES is going should peel off and start their own groups. #Nobody said ARES is the only way to go. #Leave the Clique to play by itself while you get on with the important business of public service to your citizens. #Form a separate Group, elect your own officers, get trained and equipted. #When you are ready, offer your services to those who can benefit from them. #
Give REACT a call. http://www.reactintl.org #They are always looking to get a few new Teams started. Join SATERN or another established group. You have other choices.
That is a banner idea. #Happened here in central Virginia. #A small group of us, fed up with Newington politics, formed Virginia RACES, Inc., now well over 600 strong.

We're doing quite well. #All decisions are made locally, and we have absolutely no budget with which to operate. #All expenses are paid out of our own pockets. #Why? #Because we're given the opportunity to do what we enjoy doing, helping others. #That out of pocket thing is the best "lid" filter ever!

All of our training material is available to anyone, free for the asking. #All of it was created by volunteers. #Training sessions are held free of charge to anyone who wishes to attend. #Free breakfast and free lunch has been provided at the vast majority of these sessions, again, all out of pocket.

You want to play ARESCOM or whatever they call it and be a VA-RACES member? #OK by us. #We do like to know when and if you can be called on, however. #A necessary planning issue.

We're getting ready to produce a training video for our hospitals. #All costs out of pocket. #This is to relieve the hosptal folks of having to be tied to a specific training time. #We believe they are busy with more pressing issues, like saving lives.

Check out our site, and if you see training material that you would like to use, just contact us and let us know.

Virginia RACES Emergency Communications (http://www.varaces.org/)

Forgive our slightly dated web page, the new hospital system has been keeping us pretty busy. #I understand updates are coming soon.

I've seen more than one suggest that if you don't like the way things are done at the ARRL, then form your own organization. #Well, we did!

Please, just ask if we can be of assistance.

Best 73,
Luke

[N5PVL]

Personally, I'd rather see ARES back on its feet here in deep south Texas than to try to start a new organization here. I do appreciate Luke's kind offer but I don't think I could apply it in deep south Texas.

We average one hurricane event every 6-8 years ( used to be 11 ) and between those, weather is an almost nonexistent phenomena. - It's always sunny except every now and then, when it rains a little.

Up in north Texas, we had storm fronts and tornadoes, hail and so on, all the time but that's 650 miles north of here. Deep south Texas is semi-tropical. Palm trees and so on. Year-round tomatoes instead of tornadoes and more often than not you run the air-conditioning on Christmas day. The average ham here is retired, and has or had a home in one of the northern states. Close to two-thirds of the ham population migrates every year, in fact.

Key infrastructure like access to the NWS center in Brownsville and a working relationship with Valley government officials would be very difficult to develop in direct competition with an ARRL sanctioned ARES group under these conditions. - This has been the sticking point that comes up when alternate ecomms are discussed here. The subject comes up regularly due to our misfortune in this area.

The weather is really too good ( and too hot! ) 95% or more of the time to keep a regular group properly trained, but when it is bad, it can really get bad in a major way, very fast.

This is why I see more potential in rehabilitating ARES down here than I do in starting up an alternate ecomm group. - None of those clowns have any business in ARES in the first place, and the resources/connections they command in ARES' name are important.

What if Emily had swerved a little bit north and hit us head-on?

Yesterday the EC of Willacy county ( the one that doesn't even live there ) was heard talking on the repeater, saying that if a really big one came at us, he would be heading out of town.

My Dad is in his eighties, and his farm is up in Willacy county.

[al2i]

http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/80echolinkcommunism.jpg

[W2IK]

"You are an elected official of ARRL, an amateur radio organization -- your decisions must be for the good of ARRL and its members and there should be no opportunity for criticism that your decisions have benefited you or any small circle of your friends."

It's too bad that this isn't followed in a lot of places within amateur radio. I have seen "ARES Cliques" in many places, however, it is up to the ARRL and it's Section Managers to prevent this. So what happens when a deaf ear and a blind eye?? It just helps engrain the cliques and erodes the "Silent Armor" of emergency communications. People who don't have "badges" turn away from public service and we are the poorer for it. We had a "badge" who would parade around on Long Island a few years ago and when the flight 800 crash came about we told him to get out of our way so we could get the job done and relegated him to fetching dog food for the search dogs. Of course, who did the good old ARRL thank for doing such a great job... him, of course. It's the same thing down here in Texas. Ok, there are a few groups who don't let titles get in the way, but I have seen it so badly erode the morale here that the "badges" were even having problems finding net control ops to cover the HF hurricane net during Emily. This probably is one reason why it shut down so early. Many of us were monitoring, but why should we step in and assist a group of small minds who only care about their so-called stature in the ecom world? So what are many hams doing.... either dropping out of the support ranks or forming their own groups or joining REACT or SATERN. You can change an old saying to: "What if they gave an emergency and no one showed up?" This is what will happen as long as those who are in a position to change things turn a deaf ear. But then, they are too friendly with those they've placed in "badge positions". If you really think it's just in the Rio Grande area you are mistaken. I live in the San Antonio area and have faced the deeply entrenched ARES/RACES clique here. A firmer "good ole boy's club" there never was. It needs a good house cleaning to bring back respectability to ARES. I'm sorry to say that the people who can do something about it lack the courage to do so.

Bob W2IK
Ham Radio and the WTC Disaster (http://hometown.aol.com/realhamradio/)

[kf4lne]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 28 2005,20:15)]http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/80echolinkcommunism.jpg
HA! I love it! I want a poster of that to hang in my shack!

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (kf4lne @ July 30 2005,14:24)]I want a poster of that to hang in my shack!

I don't have a very high quality version, but you should be able to right-click on this link to save the highest-quality one I have available:

Large Echolink-Communism Image (http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/fullecholinkcommunism.jpg)

Perhaps you could print a decent 8x10 from that.

73,
Dave/al2i

[kf4lne]

SWEET! I have some anti-echolink commie propaganda in my shack now! Now if I can find some anti-lid commie propaganda and some anti-illegally modified cb radio leeeeenyar using idiot commie propaganda i will be all set http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC9BKA]

Quote[/b] (kf4lne @ July 30 2005,14:24)]http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/80echolinkcommunism.jpg
That is an offensive picture to people who like echolink. That is like saying using APRS on the internet is supporting cummunisim. You may like it but others dont. So dont offend the ones that do.

[N5PVL]

You hit the nail on the head about APRS... Besides being mind-numbingly boring and almost without utility, it's use supports cummunism, as you say.

That's like - really disgusting! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #- I suppose it must be their way of dealing with the boredom after looking at all those little icons for so long.

I certainly hope these APRS people wash thier hands when they are through!

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Aug. 01 2005,09:06)]I hope these APRS people wash thier hands when they are through!
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[N5PVL]

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[W3MIV]

Instead of just repeating what I say, Charles, try posting it on the board 100 times.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC9BKA]

I didnt say I dont like APRS I love it but I saw that kf4lne does it so I used it as an EXAMPLE. No offence was ment by it.

[N5PVL]

It's just like shooting fish in a barrel. - Hardly sporting at all!

[KC9BKA]

have you tried it?

[KD6NIG]

Ok, lets get realistic here:

Echolink isn't likely to be going away soon.

With that, why not improve the technology to prevent this from happening again. I haven't used the program, but I would think things I'm about to mention below could be somehow implemented:

1) Each echolink user has to have a valid callsign. Thus, repeater owners should have the ability to block users by callsign. The 2 people mentioned in this thread who decided to monopolize the repeater? Block them from using it if they aren't responsible enough to use it, simple.

2) If people want to just yack on a repeater via Echolink and not allow proper breaks to come in, and/or people to break in with emergency traffic, then program into the Echolink software something that makes them pause, ie a 5 second delay before they can transmit again after the courtesy tone/repeater drop. If someone else on the repeater keys it, then they are blocked from transmitting until the 5 second lapse of silence/drop occurs. In this case, you give "real" RF users priority. If Echolink users don't like it, they can connect directly to each other, in which case this provision wouldn't apply for pure internet "QSO".

3) The software should, when someone connects to a node, allow the node (the RF end) to send some kind of message to the screen that the person using the node has to acknowledge before connection to the node is completed and they can use the repeater via internet. This could be used for the repeater owner to make sure the ground rules for said repeater are known. If the person just clicks the box away and ignores said rule, then the repeater owner has the right to block them for violating said rules.

4) And I agree with the previous poster with having multiple people available to "kill" the echolink if need be in an emergency situation, unless the emergency directly involves someone using the echolink (ie, a ham calls in for help and an echolink connected user is calling 911 for them)


I know many of you don't like the technology involved here, and I personally don't use nor see a use for echolink when my HT is working perfectly fine. But, since it appears that some Ham Radio users as well as repeater operators will be using the software, lets use the software to ensure good operating practice. We can't get people on RF to pause properly on a repeater like they should, but we could do this with the software. We can't, except by taking thier radios away, prevent them from using or abusing a repeater, but we can with the software.

Since its not going away, lets make the software as RF friendly as possible-they may get to link to repeaters, but let the repeater owners set some paramaters, and let them block those people they don't wish to use said medium to connect.

Course, the ideal solution is to be rid of it, but I don't see this happening. I won't be using it, but many others will, so make it harder to abuse!

Just a thought.....

[w5bdj]

Quote[/b] ]
1) Each echolink user has to have a valid callsign. Thus, repeater owners should have the ability to block users by callsign. The 2 people mentioned in this thread who decided to monopolize the repeater? Block them from using it if they aren't responsible enough to use it, simple.


This is already built into version 1.9.891.

Quote[/b] ]
2) If people want to just yack on a repeater via Echolink and not allow proper breaks to come in, and/or people to break in with emergency traffic, then program into the Echolink software something that makes them pause, ie a 5 second delay before they can transmit again after the courtesy tone/repeater drop. If someone else on the repeater keys it, then they are blocked from transmitting until the 5 second lapse of silence/drop occurs. In this case, you give "real" RF users priority. If Echolink users don't like it, they can connect directly to each other, in which case this provision wouldn't apply for pure internet "QSO".


This sounds like an excellent ides to me. Maybe make the delay selectable by the node owner.

Quote[/b] ]
3) The software should, when someone connects to a node, allow the node (the RF end) to send some kind of message to the screen that the person using the node has to acknowledge before connection to the node is completed and they can use the repeater via internet. This could be used for the repeater owner to make sure the ground rules for said repeater are known. If the person just clicks the box away and ignores said rule, then the repeater owner has the right to block them for violating said rules.


I like this idea also. Until this is actually implemented you could put this info in your "station info" file and it would be displayed on the right side of the EchoLink screen when someone connects directly to the node from their computer. Now this, of course, would not help if someone were to connect to the node using a link or repeater as they cannot see the EchoLink screen themselves.

Quote[/b] ]
4) And I agree with the previous poster with having multiple people available to "kill" the echolink if need be in an emergency situation, unless the emergency directly involves someone using the echolink (ie, a ham calls in for help and an echolink connected user is calling 911 for them)


You can do this now using the web interface or a seperate modem connected to the computer that EchoLink is running on.

Great ideas.

[kf4lne]

Quote[/b] (KC9BKA @ July 31 2005,17:02)]Quote[/b] (kf4lne @ July 30 2005,14:24)]http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/80echolinkcommunism.jpg
That is an offensive picture to people who like echolink. That is like saying using APRS on the internet is supporting cummunisim. You may like it but others dont. So dont offend the ones that do.
I don't really see the comparison between Echolink over internet and APRS over internet. By the nature of how APRS works internet APRS access doesent tie up the RF any more so than another RF connection would, however Echolink allows for the lids to overrun a frequency in the middle of use and the constant "xx1xx repeater connecting" every other minute gets old quick, especially when it has been connected to 146.52 via an aligator station. There is an aligator echolink station near here and it makes listening to 146.52 an irritation where as operating APRS via internet can be useful when you cant seem to get RF to work (must not be any aprs activity close enough to me to connect to it) Anyway, I use APRS mainly to keep track of the weather and various bullitens in the area and sometimes I do forget to close the app so it looks like i have been on for a while. Anyway, I found the image in another thread and felt it would fit in here http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . Besides, its not the fault of Echolink that these things happen, but you would think the developers would add features to allow for lid-blocking or something like that. Someone on here has a quote that says any tool is a weapon of you hold it right, those lids are just holding echolink differently and it hurts us all in the long run.

[KD6NIG]

Someone using 146.52 to run a echolink link would need to study the bandplan. #Unfortunately, since the bandplan for 2m is more of a gentleman's agreement to some people and a loose guide to others, it is kind of hard to get people to follow the rules.

But as you said, and I agree with your assessment as you said it, some people will use the tool correctly and some will use it to abuse. #I wonder if the powers that be at Echolink would be supportive of said persons being blocked from use, provided they have valid complaints about such activity..... well, that could be faked probably, so maybe not a good idea.

Seeing Gigaparts' current ad, I wonder if this will fuel the fire. I only have one question-why doesn't my HT shoot that cool looking lightning bolt when I key it? hehehe

[kf4lne]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Aug. 01 2005,12:54)]Someone using 146.52 to run a echolink link would need to study the bandplan. Unfortunately, since the bandplan for 2m is more of a gentleman's agreement to some people and a loose guide to others, it is kind of hard to get people to follow the rules.

But as you said, and I agree with your assessment as you said it, some people will use the tool correctly and some will use it to abuse. I wonder if the powers that be at Echolink would be supportive of said persons being blocked from use, provided they have valid complaints about such activity..... well, that could be faked probably, so maybe not a good idea.

Seeing Gigaparts' current ad, I wonder if this will fuel the fire. I only have one question-why doesn't my HT shoot that cool looking lightning bolt when I key it? hehehe
Open the cover, look in the middle of the RF stage for a black screw inside a metal can. Put your golden screwdriver into that screw and press really hard and turn it 8 times clockwise or until it stops turning. Reassemble the HT and transmit http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC9BKA]

NOW THAT IS DOWNRIGHT STUPID! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I wonder what person would put echolink on 146.52. I WOULD HATE THAT. I didnt compare aprs to echolink but (key here) I WAS USING AN EXAMPLE! I like aprs a lot and would never think of offending anyone about it.


But echolink does not support communisim and that picture is very innappropriate.


73s

[KC9BKA]

No offence meant by the post.

Maybe we can meet up on APRS someday http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

I say ask the guy on 146.52 to move his node!


73s
Check out my website @
http://www.hamradiomania.com

[k9kjm]

The comparison of Echolink as a tool to a chainsaw might me just a little bit extreme.....

I would put it more like Echolink being a tool like a hammer.... Able to drive nails to build a nice structure,
OR could be used to smash out windows........

As other posts have already mentioned, The solution to the problem in the original post is clear. The repeater control operators, OR Any user should have cut the BS session short. OR also as mentioned, Echolink does have the provisions to block those LID type users out.......

To those who compare Echolink to some type of Commun ism, GROW UP! That type of post is not welcome here.

Echolink is not a cure all communications mode. But it is a great new tool in the ham operators arsenal of ways to communicate.

I suspect that those who hate Echolink the most are the ones who actually know VERY LITTLE of how it REALLY functions. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kj5t]

I put up a link at times. I choose an odd simplex frequency, I listen and then I put up the link. When I am done, I take the link back down. The link goes up about once a week for the echolink net. Other then that, I don't find much that interests me on echolink. I have gotten to talk with my friend in MD who just got her ham license over echolink (we also worked on HF with her dad being control op). She is already working on the code, and soon will be on HF.

[al2i]

OK, I made the Echolink-Communism poster (from original art supposedly from Microsoft about open-source) because it was so far over-the-top that it is totally ineffective as an advertising tool against Echolink, and I thought a couple of folks here would enjoy the humor.

That is all it was... FOR FUN. I was RIBBING. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST ECHOLINK! THE "NETIQUETTE" GUYS ARE RIGHT! THESE CAPS LOOK LIKE "SHOUTING" AND THE CONSTANT USE OF EXCLAMATION POINTS IS IRRITATING AS HELL!!!!!

SEVENTY-THREE!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAVE/AL2I

[KD6NIG]

I've seen that poster used for the RIAA also, and I assume it was modified for that usage.

I don't know if I would go as far to say Echolink users are that, though. Its another "mode" so to speak, one I don't wish to use so I simply don't use it.

But of course, in the tradition of QRZ, if you're for something, you're 'for' it as hardcore as you can be, and if against, same thing http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kf4vgv]

It just amazes me how some people think echolink is the "saviour" of ham radio. #What advantage does echolink have on a cellphone, internet chatroom and of course a regular landline telephone?? #Answer: Absolutely nothing!
Some would like for you to believe that echolink is great for emergency communications. It's no greater than trying to pass traffic on a Yahoo chatroom. At least on a Yahoo chatroom you don't have someone tuning up a $1 microphone from Walmart yelling, "whats the weather like where you are" during an emergency!! #I would prefer my landline phone over echolink for contacts if I had the choice and everything is up and running. If there is a black out, there is no choice but true RF ham radio. Everything else is down including the internet and echolink. That is when ham radio operators are at their best. Many repeaters are set up on emergency power via generators and/or batteries. At best, echolink is limited to non emergency assist coms before and also after a disaster, once the internet is restored. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the internet like most do but i know the limitations of the internet and I know what a ham radio can do as well. There is something else too. #I have posted once before on this reasoning......"Why is the FCC so supportive on echolink and other related internet connections?" #It gives the FCC another reason to reissue ham frequencies to another radio service. Consider this...if the majority of ham operators decides to use echolink as their "dx" for their QSOs or use echolink to communicate on local repeaters, many ham frequencies will become vacant and unused. The shrinkage of frequencies will continue for ham radio, perhaps more of an alarming rate than ever before. Some may call it progress but I call it another form of deregulation. #One day you may wake up in the morning and grab your mic and call CQ on one of your favorite freqs and get no response. #Later in the day, you will hear from a ham collegue that your favorite frequency is no longer available for ham operators. #

[N5PVL]

If you have Internet access, insisting upon using Echolink over it only serves make your communications slower, more prone to interference, and less secure.

It really is a misuse of both Amateur Radio and the Internet, preventing either system from performing at its best.

When it comes to emergency communications, this is a critical point. Use of Echolink can very well end up costing lives and property that might otherwise have been saved.

[N5PVL]

KF4VGV says:
Quote[/b] ]
Some may call it progress but I call it another form of deregulation.


That's an excellent point, sir. - #Echolink does have that smell about it, most definately.

[N5PVL]

I hope that EchoLink and ARESCOM idiots do not end up putting lives and property at risk with thier moronic behavior during this hurricane, as they did with Emily in deep south Texas.

My wish is that the hurricane ( Katrina ) would take another jog and wander out into the gulf again - to dissipate harmlessly.

I know it is not likely, but this is my wish.

[N5PVL]

ai4cb says:
Quote[/b] ]
You know what will happen next.

There will be a news item on the ARRL web site about this incident, describing it as how Echolink provided vital hurricane communications.


That's precisely what they did after the hurricane Emily snafu.

They decided a 'nice lie' would serve their purpose better than to tell what actually happened.