FCC NPRM

[K9STH]

If the following is adopted the know-code / no-code discussions will be moot.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-143A1.doc

Glen, K9STH

[W5MJL]

It looks to me they were in the MOOD to deny requests.

[K0RGR]

They did what they said they wanted to do 10 years ago.

[W5MJL]

This makes the bandplan a more important issue than it already was.

[K0RGR]

It didn't look like they'd done anything with that yet, either. We already had an NPRM on that, and it's seemed to disappear. Maybe they're planning to do the final R+O at the same time.

[W5MJL]

Hopefully they will be in their DENY mood again and leave the bands as they are currently.

[W3MIV]

Gentlemen, and er, uh, ladies, start your comments...


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ July 20 2005,18:04)]Gentlemen, and er, uh, ladies, start your comments...


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
You mean start the shipments of bicarbonate. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[k6bbc]

It’s nice to see the FCC has such high regard for the old fogies at the ARRL. As I said, shut them down.

Oh, and I’m trilled to be able to keep my ADVANCED CLASS license. Looks like I will be around awhile.

BBC

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ July 20 2005,15:21)]It’s nice to see the FCC has such high regard for the old fogies at the ARRL. As I said, shut them down.

Oh, and I’m trilled to be able to keep my ADVANCED CLASS license. Looks like I will be around awhile.

BBC
Nah! You're gonna eventually be forced to join the ranks of the Extras! In fact, *everyone* will be an Extra in a year. Then we'll see my 'one-class' ham radio, just the way it used to be on 27 mhz, go into effect.

Enjoy! While you can!

Ed

[ai4ep]

...so what IS their FINAL DECISION ?

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ July 20 2005,16:32)]...so what IS their FINAL DECISION ?
They'll be recinding my license despite an exemplary operating career. With the need for more letters for new call signs, they're taking over my callsign and using it for parts for new callsigns.

It's been fun fellas.

[N8CPA]

It's an NPRM, not an R&O...yet. #The dates specified are comment and response filing deadlines. #No change effective date, yet. But I haven't seen significant changes in what an NPRM says, and what an R&O says that I can remember. In the absence of a requirement, may brass keep pounding on! #

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[K7JBQ]

I feel a bit sorry for the phone ops, because the tsunami isn't likely to hit the CW portions of the bands, which is where I hang out between solar winds and other stuff that turn a transceiver into a paper weight.

Or have the crybabies already started whining about "all those frequencies down there going to waste?"

73,
Bill

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (K7JBQ @ July 20 2005,18:50)]I feel a bit sorry for the phone ops, because the tsunami isn't likely to hit the CW portions of the bands, which is where I hang out between solar winds and other stuff that turn a transceiver into a paper weight.

Or have the crybabies already started whining about "all those frequencies down there going to waste?"

73,
Bill
Trust me, the bulk of the cw frequencies have seen their last days.

[K0RGR]

It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, so the newcomers can copy me.

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 20 2005,17:03)]It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, so the newcomers can copy me.
It's an interesting solution to the problem of attracting people to the hobby. Do you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"? Doubtful. Those who are most likely to do any advancing are playing with Part 15 devices in the form of Wifi networking.

Certainly I don't see beer belches and farting on 75 SSB attracting any electrical engineers.

[ai4ep]

A lot of you folks were real nice to me ( and still are ) both here and ON THE AIR.

I will do my best to be nice to others....both IN PERSON and on-the-air.

Just like yesterday.

A I 4 E P

[KE7CWB]

Wont change anything for me. I still plan to be at least a General before this becomes R&O.

Maybe you could encourage the flood of new HFers to use 10 and 12. that would at least keep the illegal CBers off of it.

Start using all these bands we dont use right now. Less chance of losing it if you use it.

Im sure there will be more than a few lids in this new group. I am also sure there will be more than a few good operators as well.

I have heard NCTs that are very good courteous ops, and I have heard 20wpm extras that define the term LID.

[AK7V]

The CW portion of the band will be taken over by FSK. Let the computer copy.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 20 2005,18:24)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 20 2005,17:03)]It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, so the newcomers can copy me.
It's an interesting solution to the problem of attracting people to the hobby. Do you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"? Doubtful. Those who are most likely to do any advancing are playing with Part 15 devices in the form of Wifi networking.

Certainly I don't see beer belches and farting on 75 SSB attracting any electrical engineers.
I've never seen "attracting people to the hobby" as an issue. Hear a lot about it, but (OF hat ON), when I first became a ham and was active in the early 70's, this whole "growth" thing was a non-issue. And we had LESS THAN HALF the number of licensees we have today. The bands were very active, and more people were into the technical side of things than they are today, or so it seems.

When did it become a "more is better" numbers game? Is this in defense of HF frequency spectrum that is protected by International Law and nobody particularly wants anyway? What IS IT with this notion that we'll all get a prize if we manage to license a million hams in this country? Anyone over the age of 10 should know that quantity is no substitute for quality.

In a great sense, CW wins a victory this round because the allocations won't change. Time will tell if the phone portions of the HF bands will be overrun by "Good Buddies." I sure hope not. In a way, this is a good thing, because we all get to find out the results of no-code licensing, and the CW purists lose nothing.

My LTA paddles are feeling no pain. Yet.

73, Rob

[ai4ep]

When I first passed my tests for EXTRA and got on the air on HF, many folks ( well...every one really ) greeted me with cheers and congradulations, even those who had passed a 20 wpm test...and here I was, with only 5 wpm under my belt.

I plan to be as nice to the new folks as many of you were ( and still are ) to me.

It wont be all THAT bad...plus some folks will find that HF aint all it s cracked up to be, not like it and sell their equipment at a great price TO you. If you remember, many folks that got in on the NCT bandwagon did not last a full year or three. You were able and still are able to buy their equipment at a bargain price.

Amateur radio, it aint for everybody, and should not try to be.

Even as popular as cell phones are, there still are some folks that will NOT own one, for various reasons...and you may know of one or two folks like that.

...just typing away

ai4ep

[KE7CWB]

Im one of those who wont own a cellphone.

With this new arrangement one thing I would suggest be done is to create a dedicated digital section of each HF band. Completely seperate from Phone and CW band sections.

[AK7V]

Well, the rush to HF will happen during the sunspot low. I wonder if the new HF hams will be disappointed? Maybe they can get the FCC to fix that. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[N8CPA]

Quote[/b] (KE7CWB @ July 20 2005,23:53)]Im one of those who wont own a cellphone.

With this new arrangement one thing I would suggest be done is to create a dedicated digital section of each HF band. #Completely seperate from Phone and CW band sections.
Hell! Given the success of 60M, let's channelize the HF allocations. Take all the concern out of accurately tuning
a VFO--that too is an outdated skill, after all, and a 'burden' to operators, not to mention how difficult to learn! We could even separate the channels with buffers to accommodate narrow modes, like PSK, Hellschreiber--dare I say the dread acronym?--CW--sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, or traumatized them.

I don't own a cellphone either.

[k7unz]

Frankly, I fail to see the reson for all this moaning and groaning.

I've been a CW-only guy for 45 years, and I don't see this proposed action as a threat. #We've already dropped the Extra morse requirement from 20 to 5 wpm. #Did the CW sub-bands suddenly become empty? #No, I don't believe they did. #More slow speed ops, yes....and that's to their credit in my opinion. #They're on the air, giving CW a shot, and it's up to us "old guys" to make them glad they did!

While it may be hard for a lot of you to accept, CW is just one mode of many available to ANY operator. #Some love it, just as I do, and others love RTTY, PSK, SSTV, and even AM phone. #To each, it is the "only" mode to operate, and I'm happy for them to have found something they like in the hobby.

AM is still around guys, and CW will surely last at least as long. #It's up to those of us who love it, to make it something that will attract others to use it. #Welcome the newbie, help them out on the air, encourage them, and most of all.....work 'em! #It ain't always easy guys, but do it!

The morse requirement never has kept the "bad" element out of ham radio. #If you believe it has, then you're living in a dream world. #

Frankly, if there is anything to learn from all this it's that the ARRL is concerned only with itself. #A shame it's come to this as I can remember 45 years ago when I was so proud to get that first membership certificate from ARRL. #I dropped membership a few years ago in disgust with what it's become.

73, Jim/k7unz

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (k7unz @ July 21 2005,10:41)]Frankly, if there is anything to learn from all this it's that the ARRL is concerned only with itself. #A shame it's come to this as I can remember 45 years ago when I was so proud to get that first membership certificate from ARRL. #I dropped membership a few years ago in disgust with what it's become.

73, Jim/k7unz
While I applaud the bulk of your post as being eminently reasonable, you end up with nonsequitor of significant mirth (in my view).

The FCC just issued the NPRM, not the ARRL.

The League had most of their ideas shot down, as did most of the other petitioners and commenters who filed. Why not blame Charlie or Bob or Harry or any of the other petitioners who also saw their ideas thrown out?

I am astounded when a man can post something as well reasoned as the beginning of the post, then follow it with "reiner Wahnsinn," to keep the slate free of bovine scatological similes.

[N8CPA]

Al, you're absoultely right! It's Charlie's fault! Just ask W3SY. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ka5s]

I think the Commission is on safe ground here (not that people won't/arent cuss/ing them). The only doubts I have are about folks who may try to operate CW without knowing it, but computers nowadays at least let them send decently, even if they can't read it by ear. Even on 2 and 6 meters, where no-code techs abound, this has not been a problem, so it may not be on HF.

However, the Commission still requires a Radiotelegraph license for non-Amateur CW (what little is left), and it may be that they'd support a CW endorsement for the Amateur bands. I've been considering whether to mention this option in NOI comments, but I don't want to accidentally persuade the FCC that CW should be confined to specified subbands -- it comes it too handy for mixed mode weak signal operations.


Cortland
KA5S

[K3STX]

The moaning and groaning is from people, like me, who think that removing the CW requirement will harm the hobby. It is a barrier to any old riff/raff who can read a book, memorize some answers, and then get on HF. I think the CW "barrier" has been a good thing; at least it required some skill to learn something.

Remember a month or so ago on the Tonight Show that those two Hams beat out those text-messaging kids. I felt a sense of pride with that. The next day I wondered to myself "I wonder if the "non-code" crew felt any sense of pride?" Sure, they are still Hams, but they dismiss as "irrelevant" the only thing in the performance that was remarkable.

If they take away the testing requirement, CW will not go away tomorrow, but it will certainly go away. They lowered the standards for CW when they dropped the requirement to 5 wpm, and the quality of CW on the air has dropped off sharply since then. When there is no requirement at all there will be little incentive to learn (except by those who fortunately learn that it is a great way to communicate long distances with a small station), and once people like me die off that will be that. I think it is sad, but not as sad as when the first new "General" comes out of a VE session.

paul

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (ka5s @ July 21 2005,11:32)]... I've been considering whether to mention this option in NOI comments, but I don't want to accidentally persuade the FCC that CW should be confined to specified subbands -- #it comes it too handy for mixed mode weak signal operations.


Cortland
KA5S
I think that you should bring up that topic in a comment. I don't believe the confinement issue would arise, even after the League eventually files the (shudder, shudder, shudder) bandwidth proposal sometime later this year.

I don't think you'll get very far, however, after closely reading the NPRM a few times. I believe that this decision is already firm, and that the FCC is merely dressing the windows with the comment period. That said, I believe, too, that a meritorious idea may still have impact on them.

I have a few issues that I plan to raise in a comment, though I don't (on the whole) find much to object to in the NPRM so far as it goes.

73

[W5MJL]

There is no doubt in my mind cw is dead. It will die with the people who currently know it. How anyone can believe there are going to people who will take the time to learn something they don't HAVE TO KNOW, when they didn't even learn it when they DID HAVE TO KNOW IT, is beyond me.

[AK7V]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ July 21 2005,09:05)]There is no doubt in my mind cw is dead. It will die with the people who currently know it. How anyone can believe there are going to people who will take the time to learn something they don't HAVE TO KNOW, when they didn't even learn it when they DID HAVE TO KNOW IT, is beyond me.
Oh, give it a hundred years or so. The SCA and other old-time re-enactment people might bother to learn it. heh

[K3STX]

Like the American Morse code. How many of us still know it? There is no requirement to know it (don't think there ever was?), so it is left to a few people who know it (and still use it) to keep it alive. But it is only a matter of time before it, too, is forgotten.

paul

[AC0H]

Well.....It looks like the cry baby, lazy, gimme everything now, and don't make me work for it, crowd got their way.

You reap what you sew.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ July 21 2005,13:02)]You reap what you sew.
Seems a threadbare attitude you have. Unless, of course, you are a cotton farmer.

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Seems a threadbare attitude you have. Unless, of course, you are a cotton farmer.

Mark my words, it will not stop with CW proficiency.

In the same subject thread over at E-Ham.net a poster was bemoaning the fact that 8-12 year olds were having trouble learning the Tech theory and suggested that the test should be "modified" to make it easier for the kids to pass the test.

How soon will it be before people start to say "we don't really need to know all that RF and rules stuff, we just want to talk on the radio"?

The FCC has opened Pandora's box. The Amateur Radio Service has just taken it's first step down the slippery slope of ineptitude and mediocrity.

[W3MIV]

So far over his head it didn't even ruffle his part!


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]So far over his head it didn't even ruffle his part!
Oh no........I got it. I just chose to ignore the mindless fluff. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wa4brl]

Here's my answer to the FCC:



July 21, 2005

re: WT Dockett # 05-235
Amendment of Part 97 of the Commission’s Rules
To Implement WRC-03 Regulations Applicable to Requirements for Operator Licenses in the Amateur Radio Service


Sirs:

I strongly oppose the elimination of the telegraphy examination requirement as a qualification for certain amateur radio licenses.

In paragraph 3 of the NPRM, you erroneously conclude that that this action will result in three positive results:

(1) encourage individuals who are interested in communications technology, or who are able to contribute to the advancement of the radio art, to become amateur radio operators;

(2) eliminate a requirement that we believe is now unnecessary and that may discourage amateur service licensees from advancing their skills in the communications and technical phases of amateur radio; and

(3) promote more efficient use of the radio spectrum currently allocated to the amateur radio service.

I submit that the results will be the opposite. I have listed rebuttals to each of these supposed results below.

(1) With no regulatory incentive, most Individuals will choose not to learn Morse telegraphy, and thus will never be able to communicate with the many radio amateurs throughout the world who can afford only basic CW stations. Moreover, with no regulatory incentive, these Individuals will remain unable to utilize CW, the single mode that might still result in successful communications when no other mode can. CW is still very necessary when a message must be communicated during very poor conditions. Your rule would result in a significant loss to the radio art.

(2) Central to advancing skills in the communications and technical phases of amateur radio is encouraging individuals in learning to build basic functional radio equipment. There is no more basic radio equipment than a simple oscillator transmitter. By eliminating the regulatory incentive to learn Morse telegraphy, licensed radio amateurs will have no use for this most simple of transmitters. They may well be discouraged from attempting to try building the more complex devices required for phone or other modes. The experience and pride of succeeding at building that first ultra-simple transmitter has great value in encouraging further experimenting and learning.

Similarly, Morse telegraphy is a skill uniquely suited to worldwide amateur radio communications. Rather than encourage advancing skills, removing the telegraphy requirement will allow an immediate reduction of the amateur radio skill set.

(3) Setting loose thousands of new HF licensees to overwhelm the phone segments of the amateur radio bands would be a serious detriment to the efficient use of the spectrum. Promoting efficient use of the spectrum logically must include encouraging greater use of the CW segments of the amateur radio bands. Removing the Morse telegraphy requirement accomplishes the opposite.

Further, my arguments above demonstrate that this NPRM is counterproductive to the very “basis and purpose” for amateur radio service set out in part 97. Removing the Morse telegraphy requirement would:

lessen amateur radio’s viability as a “communications service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications” 97.1(a);

reduce and retract “the amateur’s proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art” 97.1(b);

cause a reduction “of the existing reservoir of trained operators, technicians, and radio experts” 97.1©; and

result reduce and retract “of the amateur’s unique ability to enhance international goodwill” 97.1(d).

Details of WRC-03 notwithstanding, there is still great value in maintaining the Morse telegraphy requirement for access to the HF amateur radio bands.

In paragraph 9 of the NPRM, it is noted that the largest group of your petitioners requests that you eliminate all telegraphy proficiency testing. Please remember that the majority is not always right. It is for this reason that our constitution specifically guarantees rights of minorities under the law. We supporters of telegraphy requirements may be a minority, but we are not wrong.

For these many reasons, I urge you to drop this proposed new rule.


Sincerely,


Norman S. Silsby Jr.
Amateur Radio licensee WA4BRL

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ July 21 2005,13:57)]The Amateur Radio Service has just taken it's first step down the slippery slope of ineptitude and mediocrity.
Seems I've heard this one before. 2000? 1991? 1968? 1955? 1934? 1912?

So hard to remember...... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K8ERV]

I think that semaphore should be required. Actually, it is a very practical way to communicate over short distances. I put a flag on my dawg's tail, and she is quite good at it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (K8ERV @ July 21 2005,14:52)]I think that semaphore should be required. Actually, it is a very practical way to communicate over short distances. I put a flag on my dawg's tail, and she is quite good at it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

TOM K8ERV #Montrose Colo
Not to mention helping to keep the shack cool and ventilated.

[K3UD]

While I don't like the NPRM as it concerns the code I can live with it. We will have a comment period for whatever it is worth.
Unfortunately there are other issues that might have some longer term effects.

The FCC chose not to address the issue of a true beginners license and they also have left the Novice and Advanced as orphaned classes. The Tech+ is slowley being merged into the Technician class as renewals come up but the Technician class will be mixed with those who have additional privileges because they have passed element 1.

As far as the written tests becoming tougher, I think that would be up to the VECs as they really control the question pools.

Since 1997 the ARRL has twice tried to interest the FCC concerning the modernizing of the basic license structure and privileges, but they have failed both times. All of the problems associated with the license classes, privileges, the so called VHF wasteland from which few ever escape to HF, the dropout rate, the inactivity rate, and the slow decline in the numbers seems to have been ignored by the FCC. It is making the ARRL look a bit impotent.

So what should we do?
I hope that the Techs take the time to learn what is required to get the General now that the expected grandfathering seems to be out of the question.

The big question:

Will eliminating the code requirement actually stop the erosion, foster more license upgrades and attract new people? Another question might be; will it help increase ARRL membership?

The playing field is changing, into what, we do not yet know.
It will be interesting to see how all of this shakes out over the next 5 years or so. I just hope we do not see a repeat of what happened to some of the early no code Techs when they tried to use local repeaters.

This certainly does not mean the death of the code though. I suspect it will continue to be used on the air long after many of us are gone.

Believe it or not, we are all in this together.

73
George
K3UD

[WB2WIK]

Whatever happens, amateur radio in the U.S. will be as it already is. I doubt eliminating the code testing requirement will suddenly increase our numbers, although that's a great thought.

If we really want to increase not just our numbers, but our importance and relevance, and create substantially more activity on the bands: We need to get rid of antenna restrictions which are crippling the hobby to a great degree annually.

If we can't eliminate restrictions and we can't convince licensed hams or parties interested in becoming hams to move only to properties without antenna restrictions, "wireless communications" and the hobby based on it are doomed. Unless some new technology emerges allowing us to work DX with indoor paperclips for antennas, that's the reality.

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 20 2005,17:24)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 20 2005,17:03)]It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, so the newcomers can copy me.
It's an interesting solution to the problem of attracting people to the hobby. Do you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"? Doubtful. Those who are most likely to do any advancing are playing with Part 15 devices in the form of Wifi networking.

Certainly I don't see beer belches and farting on 75 SSB attracting any electrical engineers.
No, I think Wayne Green was right over 20 years ago when he said you couldn't give away Extra Class tickets on the street corner if you tried. Ham Radio is something you are either interested in or not. What has chapped my arse for the last 30+ years is the loss of a lot of potentially good hams who had no interest in the CW that I happen to really enjoy. I've seen too many people work hard to get their ticket and then let it go. This has accelerated to an intolerable level since the creation of the no-code license - suddenly we got all the interested parties in the door, but quickly turned them into uninterested parties.

I think what will happen is that the relatively small number of newbies that this attracts will eventually figure out that SSB is not the cat's meow, and will either come up with something better, or they too will turn to CW in some numbers. 'New' techniques for teaching the code make this more attractive (I put 'new' in quotes because I think the techniques are really so old that nobody alive today can remember that they used to do it that way all the time.).

Now that this witch am dead, perhaps we can focus on something more interesting, like advancing the state of the art and building a new digital network based on 802.11 or DSTAR...

[NY7Q]

NONE IF THIS WILL BOTHER ME, I HOPE TO BE A UN-HAM BY THE TIME THIS GOES IN EFFECT. ALL GEAR IS SOLD, BOOKS BURNED, ANTENNAS AT THE DUMP.
ACTUALLY THIS IS A GOOD THING FOR THE NEW HAMS. I AM FOR ELIMINATING THE WRITTEN TESTS. THE CB LICENSE WAS SIMPLE, ONE LITTLE MAILIN FORM AND THAT WAS IT. ITS A GOOD THING NOW. I DID KEEP MY BRASS KEY, FRAMED IT, SO MY GREAT GRANDCHILDREN CAN ASK, "GRANPA, WHAT IS THIS THING?"

[W5MJL]

N7YQ

I am as upset about this decision as you are. The hobby has been in decline for quite some time. Relax and enjoy the hobby. Yes, amateur radio is going down the tubes, there is no question about that, but it won't happen while you are still alive. I'm 55, and I still believe there will be enough good people on the air to keep it enjoyable. When it's not enjoyable we all need to get out.

[ng5e]

CHILL PEOPLE!!! # The sky isn't falling. #Amateur radio isn't turning into CB. #Dogs and cats aren't going to start sleeping together. #Get a grip. #It's probably true that CW will die eventually but it wont happen tommorow. #I work on a ship and we realized many years ago that CW was out-dated and we replaced it. #No big deal. #I will; however, be sad to see it go. #CW is one of my favorite modes. #In fact, I've made thousands of CW contacts this year alone. #

#I have two good friends that I work with who will both be getting thier tickets when the morse requirement is dropped. #These are intelligent, hard-working guys who have a sincere interest in electronics and have a lot to contribute to amatuer radio. #I can't wait to work them on HF (although it wont be CW). #I can't wait to hear some real activity on HF again. #I only hope that my friends don't run into some bitter old geezers who dismiss them as "no-code scum". #

Dave, NG5E

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 21 2005,15:22)]I think what will happen is that the relatively small number of newbies that this attracts will eventually figure out that SSB is not the cat's meow, and will either come up with something better, or they too will turn to CW in some numbers.

...

Now that this witch am dead, perhaps we can focus on something more interesting, like advancing the state of the art and building a new digital network based on 802.11 or DSTAR...
I think that digital modes, such as PSK, will prove very attractive to this group, and that, yes, a certain number will sample some CW and find it satisfying to develop and use that skill.

The essential fact of the NPRM, like it or not, is that amateur radio technology IS changing. We must either change with it, or let the license lapse and take up knitting. Probably crotchet would fit the temperments of many hereabouts!

CW will not go away soon, but go away it eventually will -- with the probably exception of novelty demonstrations and historical communications exhibits. By that time, none here (probably even the youngest) will be left to mourn its passing.

Goodness! D-Star? Is that not a link to the dreaded underworld? An invitation from Ol' Scratch to follow Dante's descent through the dark portal?

Fie! Say it ain't so!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N1XHF]

I think everyone should now focus on BPL instead of CW and let the dead horse now rest in peace. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n9zxk]

What is the time table we are looking at for this to happen. I saw someone said they have to put it up for 60 days. Can we say by the first of the year? Just wondering here

[W5MJL]

Most likely it will start Jan 2006.

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ July 21 2005,15:27)]The essential fact of the NPRM, like it or not, is that amateur radio technology IS changing. We must either change with it, or let the license lapse and take up knitting. Probably crotchet would fit the temperments of many hereabouts!

CW will not go away soon, but go away it eventually will -- with the probably exception of novelty demonstrations and historical communications exhibits. By that time, none here (probably even the youngest) will be left to mourn its passing.
Albert,

I think the only way CW and the code will completely go away would be if the FCC banned it as a mode, like they did with Spark back in the 20s.

There are a lot of so called old technologies that have existed for very long time periods and have their adherents. Black Powder shooting is one, ceramics using wood fired kilns is another, hand grinding mirrors and lenses for telescopes is still another. These have the weight of centuries behind them, and there are more examples than I can count.

There will always be someone curious enough the find out what it is like to become proficient in in the code, and as long as the FCC allows it, it will be used, and even if the FCC bans it, there will still be people who will learn it and use it some other way. Dead languages are never really dead.

73
George
K3UD

[K6UEY]

I tend to agree with George K3UD, that CW will be around as long as it is allowed on the air.
I have just read all 9 pages of this thread and one thought seems to have been weaving in and out to be addressed in a short comment by one poster

That is the new people as we have witnessed refused to learn anymore than they need to "Shoot Skip".One of the offered excuses for not learning CW is they will use their computer to send and copy CW. I know those who have been around awhile are already ahead of me,thats fine if everyone is using a computer.

Many of the old timers are quite proud of their ability to send with a key,or a bug ,or any other manual device. Experienced CW operators need not hear the call they can recognize the fist of many operators,each one has a distinct sound.

A keyboard is a keyboard is a keyboard,it is that quality that allows the computer to copy CW.Introduce a manual sender and the computer gets confused. As one poster put it they can send with their keyboard ,but if they can't copy by ear they can not have a QSO. This fact is going to drive a wedge between the 0ld and the new. For crying out loud we already have seen the trouble a lot of new people have with a chip on their shoulder because some one with 20 years experience knows more than they do.

It would not surprise me to see petitions filed to restrict CW being sent manually, Keyboard only allowed!!

Of course all this is a moot point if the action of the FCC is to eliminate Amateur Radio totally.
It is a commonly known fact many FCC engineers think that the Amateur Service is nothing more than a pain in the butt.It is like being sent to Siberia to be assigned to any section dealing with Amateur Radio. Afew Engineers are Hams and most of the staff gladly let them deal with the problems. Amateur Radio has been an albatross on their back. A DO DO bird that refused to go extinct.

We are all aware of the need for the commercial use of the VHF/UHF/Uwave frequencies,but there is a calling for the HF frequencies also. HF is used for 3rd world countries for telephone service. There are already services in the 75 meter Ham band,they have been there for years,and even though they are located in the South Pacific, they boom in on the west coast.

I'm sure all adults have heard the term" reel out enough rope and they will hang themselves".Well in my opinion the FCC has started reeling out the rope. # # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[kg4kww]

Yehhhhhhhhh Hawwwwwwwww happy days will soon be here again and it's about time http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

The US has finally heard what other nations have been saying. CW is an old and out of date means of communication. These dudes on the commission are doing what should have been done a long time ago.

Now, make the written exams harder.

Breaker 20m Does anyone have their ears on? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KL7FZ]

Looks like the "dumbing down" of Amateur radio started with the "dumbing down" of the FCC. These truly are people without a clue.
KL7FZ

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 21 2005,23:22)] Yehhhhhhhhh Hawwwwwwwww happy days will soon be here again and it's about time http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

The US has finally heard what other nations have been saying. CW is an old and out of date means of communication. These dudes on the commission are doing what should have been done a long time ago.

Now, make the written exams harder.

Breaker 20m Does anyone have their ears on? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Well, that does it! I am going to use my big arrays for radio astronomy and SETI searches from now on. I am looking for INTELLIGENT LIFE!

KL7FZ

[af2cw]

And the NCVEC will continue to push their garbage of the current entry level exam as
being too hard.

Quote[/b] ]The current entry level exam is overly complex.

NCVEC petition (http://www.rrsta.com/rain/ncvec.html)

The FCC really won't care what is in the examinations, as long as Part 97 questions are
asked so the applicant has an understanding of them. #

I can now see what the new band plan will be when the ARRL gets done with it. #Can
you say lost spectrum for CW and other digital modes? #It is on the way.

[W1SMC]

Big, huge mistake.

I say, bring back the 13 & 20 wpm tests and make the written exams extremely difficult.

When my membership to the ARRL expires I will not join again.

A very sad day in my opinion.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ July 21 2005,21:59)]Albert,

I think the only way CW and the code will completely go away would be if the FCC banned it as a mode, like they did with Spark back in the 20s........ Dead languages are never really dead.

73
George
K3UD
I agree entirely, George. I did not mean that it would utterly disappear, but will eventually become an anachronistic curiosity. And, no, I do not believe that it will be outlawed as was spark, for there is no valid reason to do so as there was with spark.

The plain fact is, there are now other modes that are exploding in popularity that rival CW in many ways, though not yet so robust in times of radical condx.

The essential point is, times change and so must we.

I believe that the end result of this NPRM will make the bandwidth proposal that much more important for all of us, for this removal of all Morse testing requirements really WILL bring an influx to the phone bands. The "CTT" deregulation petition discussed in the News thread will, in my view, make this situation far worse now that we can really expect lots of new folks grabbing mics. Narrow band preserves makes far more sense, IMHO, than does removal of all barriers.

73

[K3STX]

KWW,

You are a ********. Some of us are actually upset about this, and all you can do is gloat that your retarded point of view has finally been accepted by a bunch of morons. And your reference to the idiotic lingo of CB at the end of your post; well that is just precious and entirely consistent with what we all fear.

One idea that is going around my local radio club is for all of us to CANCEL our ARRL memberships. Obviously they have absolutely no clout with the FCC, so why support them?

Ban me, I will wear it as a badge of honor. Just don't take away my paddles.

paul

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ July 21 2005,09:05)]There is no doubt in my mind cw is dead. #It will die with the people who currently know it. #How anyone can believe there are going to people who will take the time to learn something they don't HAVE TO KNOW, when they didn't even learn it when they DID HAVE TO KNOW IT, is beyond me.
Maybe we Americans are different than the rest of the world. In both Germany and UK, who have dropped a code requirement, there has been an increase in interest in learning the code and obtaining proficiency certificates. If American hams are as smart as those in the rest of the world they will discover for themselves the usefulness of CW for a variety of activities that they wish to pursue. When the noise makes the phone segments useless, the CW segments show lots of activity. I predict we will see about the same percentage of new hams using CW after the requirement is dropped as we do now because of the advantages it offers and because of the challenge in learning it.

73,
Mike WA3KYY
CU on CW

[K9STH]

STX:

I sincerely suggest that you remove the name calling from your most recent post.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Now that this witch am dead, perhaps we can focus on something more interesting, like advancing the state of the art and building a new digital network based on 802.11 or DSTAR...
I do have to chuckle when the "advancing the state of the art" argument comes out. Tom, W8JI says it best.

"Now we have people interested in emergency communications and using "cutting edge" digital emergency communications systems who don't understand how an antenna works, and who think people who do understand antennas (an "older Elmer") are stupid."

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (K3STX @ July 22 2005,09:12)]One idea that is going around my local radio club is for all of us to CANCEL our ARRL memberships. Obviously they have absolutely no clout with the FCC, so why support them?
Paul:

You are far more intelligent than that statement makes you out to be.

If an organization of 155,000 hams has so little influence on the FCC, just how much do you think you will be able to exert with your club?

The ARRL had nothing to do with this NPRM. Get over it. The reality is simply that, ever since the wrc-03 report was filed in Aug or Sept of 2003, a very large number of the nations all around the world have been dropping the Morse requirement from their licensing standards. That is the fact. No matter how much you may hear about how few in the world have done this, do the simple arithmetic for yourself.

The League tried to retain CW testing for the extra license class, contrary to any and every indication that the FCC wanted to retain it.

If you want to open a vein over this, please do so without blaming the League for something the FCC has wrought.

And get over it.

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]I did not mean that it would utterly disappear, but will eventually become an anachronistic curiosity.
Been hearing that one for years too, yet it hasn't come to pass.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ July 22 2005,08:33)]#In both Germany and UK, who have dropped a code requirement, there has been an increase in interest in learning the code and obtaining proficiency certificates.
I think it is more wishful thinking than it is statistical fact. # What has probably happened is people that fear the loss of cw on the bands have taken a renewed interest in the mode.

I believe that will happen here as well. #Anyone who knows it now will use it more. #As far as new CW operators under the proposed license structure, no way it will happen.

[N8CPA]

After the announcement of 12-30-99, whatever FCC-Doc#, there was a rush of candidates to VE sessions for 13 & 20 WPM tests, hams who wanted to avoid being perceived as "one of THOSE." I wonder if there will be a similar rush this time.

And to you who will benefit from the change, remember, No Code need not mean "no brain" or "no class." There's still a code of HF behavior to master. Now's the time to show you have the mininal discipline to comply with that. So, don't gloat!

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (w1smc @ July 22 2005,06:26)]Big, huge mistake.

A very sad day in my opinion.
And you're cetainly entitled to that opinion. The FCC doesn't agree with it, however.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">I say, bring back the 13 & 20 wpm tests and make the written exams extremely difficult. [/QUOTE]

Once again, the FCC doesn't agree. They've already shot down FISTS' petition as part of this NPRM.

Quote[/b] ]When my membership to the ARRL expires I will not join again.

The ARRL didn't petition for code removal, yet you blame them. What a crock of bull. I'd suggest you stick to the facts and not some emotional fantasy.

And the stupidity just keeps on coming....... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ July 22 2005,12:34)]After the announcement of 12-30-99, whatever FCC-Doc#, there was a rush of candidates to VE sessions for 13 & 20 WPM tests, hams who wanted to avoid being perceived as "one of THOSE." #I wonder if there will be a similar rush this time.

And to you who will benefit from the change, remember, No Code need not mean "no brain" or "no class." #There's still a code of HF behavior to master. Now's the time to show you have the mininal discipline to comply with that. #So, don't gloat!
I could be wrong, but this is how I look at it. If you can't take the time to learn 5wpm code, I doubt very seriously that you would rush to get tested. Some of these guys have been waiting and waiting for 5-10 years. To me, that is not exactly showing interest, yet some of them are so proud they waited.

Yes, there will be an initial rush. I bet we get 45,000 new hams in the first year. It will drop to 15,000 the next year, and then back to the way it has been for years. 1 or 2 % growth, just like every other country that has dropped the code.

[K3STX]

Actually, I believe the ARRL DID petition the FCC to drop the code requirement FOR ALL BUT AMATEUR EXTRA. The FCC simply took the ARRLs idea and left out the "FOR ALL BUT AMATEUR EXTRA" part. How can you say that the ARRL did not support the basic idea of removing CW testing when their own petition, in 2004, called for removing it (at the entry level)? Clearly the ARRL thought that eliminating the CW requirement would increase the numbers of Hams. I guess the FCC agrees.

paul

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (K3STX @ July 22 2005,14:12)]Actually, I believe the ARRL DID petition the FCC to drop the code requirement FOR ALL BUT AMATEUR EXTRA.
You are correct. They tried to come up with a compromise so they wouldn't lose either constituency.

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (K3STX @ July 22 2005,15:12)]Actually, I believe the ARRL DID petition the FCC to drop the code requirement FOR ALL BUT AMATEUR EXTRA.
If that's the case, then I stand corected. This is what happens when you're not an ARRL member; you don't pay attention to anything they say in the first place. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Quote[/b] ]The FCC simply took the ARRLs idea and left out the "FOR ALL BUT AMATEUR EXTRA" part.

And I'll tell you why. If you propose to remove code for General, then you can't really justify keeping it for any other class either. Certainly not a logical justification. An emotional one, maybe. No Code HF is No Code HF.

There is certainly enough incentive in the Extra priviledges to motivate someone to upgrade and improve themselves. Just because your favorite mode isn't among them, isn't a reason to go on an emotional tirade.

I'd much rather see real testing standards on things that really matter.

That doesn't mean CW, BTW. I can show quite a number of examples of 20 WPM Extras that would barely know what end of a hot soldering iron to pick up.

It means the Guild system they have in the U.K. and Australia. Actual classes in electronics and radio that you have to pass before you even sit down for your amateur test.

[w1gfh]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ July 22 2005,11:43)]Quote[/b] ]If you can't take the time to learn 5wpm code, I doubt very seriously that you would rush to get tested. #Some of these guys have been waiting and waiting for 5-10 years. #To me, that is not exactly showing interest, yet some of them are so proud they waited.
I am personally spreading the word to anyone who's been waiting for the CW requirement to be dropped that they need not strain themselves -- if they wait a bit longer, the written test will be simplified so they will hardly have to study. If (eventually) the written test gets simplified, I will spread the word that they should STILL not strain themselves -- but wait until the written test is dropped altogether. That way I should avoid hearing the "something for nothing" crowd on the air for at least another 10 years... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC9ECI]

I want to be an Extra class op, but I don't think I should have to take the test. In fact, I think the FCC should eliminate the entire testing process and eliminate the need for VEC. While I'm at it, I don't think we really need to waste time and resources to license people, I think we'd be far better off if we could just pick a callsign and start talking on the radio anywhere we wanted, using whatever mode we felt like, at whatever power lever we wanted.
I feel discriminated against because the FCC required me to not only listen to morse code and demonstrate that I could make sense of what I was hearing, but I think I might have gotten carpal tunnel from taking those two multiple guess tests. I might have strained my eyes a bit as well now that I think about it.

[N3ATS]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ July 21 2005,12:05)]There is no doubt in my mind cw is dead. It will die with the people who currently know it. How anyone can believe there are going to people who will take the time to learn something they don't HAVE TO KNOW, when they didn't even learn it when they DID HAVE TO KNOW IT, is beyond me.
I won't HAVE to know code to become a General with HF privileges, but I WANT to learn it. I've been studying today.

I want to learn it and use it, I was planning on it being part of upgrading anyway, so it's no big deal to me.

I am almost ready...

--... ...--
-. ...-- .- - ...

[KC9ECI]

Steve, you will be glad you did. The FCC is about to take something far more important away from amateur radio than just the code, they're about to take away a rite of passage and a tradition.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ July 26 2005,18:39)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ July 21 2005,12:05)]There is no doubt in my mind cw is dead. #It will die with the people who currently know it. #How anyone can believe there are going to people who will take the time to learn something they don't HAVE TO KNOW, when they didn't even learn it when they DID HAVE TO KNOW IT, is beyond me.
I won't HAVE to know code to become a General with HF privileges, but I WANT to learn it. #I've been studying today.

I want to learn it and use it, I was planning on it being part of upgrading anyway, so it's no big deal to me. #

I am almost ready...

--... #...--
-. #...-- #.- #- #...
I think you are the rare exception, and I applaud you for it.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (n3jja @ July 22 2005,13:35)]There is certainly enough incentive in the Extra priviledges to motivate someone to upgrade and improve themselves. Just because your favorite mode isn't among them, isn't a reason to go on an emotional tirade.

I'd much rather see real testing standards on things that really matter.

That doesn't mean CW, BTW. I can show quite a number of examples of 20 WPM Extras that would barely know what end of a hot soldering iron to pick up.
I don't see a couple of kc's as a big incentive. I agree that the testing should be revised such that some substantial effort/study, must be made in order to pass.

As for the 20 wpm extras that don't know which end of a soldering iron to pick up, I suspect there might be a few in nursing homes that may have forgotten.

[KI4FCP]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 20 2005,17:24)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 20 2005,17:03)]It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, #so the newcomers can copy me.
It's an interesting solution to the problem of attracting people to the hobby. #Do you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"? #Doubtful. #Those who are most likely to do any advancing are playing with Part 15 devices in the form of Wifi networking.

Certainly I don't see beer belches and farting on 75 SSB attracting any electrical engineers.
And what advancements have you gave us? By the way im a EE III with a masters and 12 us patents.....oh by the way im a NCT and proud of it. so i guess thats why im not on 75M, cuz the good ole boys like the fact no newbes are there holding there feet to the fire like we should be doing to clean up the bands instaed of uncle charlie doing it for us. Ever think of that? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KD5WYU]

I always said I would stay out of the no-code/know-code debates. I very much agree with Glen that "that horse is dead, cut up, and in a Testor's tube" at this point.

This NCT is another one of the NCTs that is going to get his 5 wpm before Uncle Charlie does away with it.

I've taken the code test once, and I did horribly. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

To me now, it is personal. I don't like walking away from a challenge, and the code test is a challenge.

Not sure how much I'll actually use it, though I've always heard that "use it, and speed will come in time, young grasshopper"

Yes, I could wait and it'd just be given to me, but I don't see much point in getting on HF without speaking the language.

I can't put up much of a station here in my apartment, so CW is probably one of the only modes besides PSK that would get out enough to work decently.

The next exam is in September here locally, and I hope to be ready by then.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (KI4FCP @ July 27 2005,10:37)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 20 2005,17:24)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 20 2005,17:03)]It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, #so the newcomers can copy me.
It's an interesting solution to the problem of attracting people to the hobby. #Do you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"? #Doubtful. #Those who are most likely to do any advancing are playing with Part 15 devices in the form of Wifi networking.

Certainly I don't see beer belches and farting on 75 SSB attracting any electrical engineers.
And what advancements have you gave us? # By the way im a EE III with a masters and 12 us patents.....oh by the way im a NCT and proud of it. #so i guess thats why im not on 75M, cuz the good ole boys like the fact no newbes are there holding there feet to the fire like we should be doing to clean up the bands instaed of uncle charlie doing it for us. # Ever think of that? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
And what advancements have you gave us? #

Congradutations on making EE, I too am an EE. #Unlike yourself however, we were forced to learn english as a condition the university placed on us for graduation.

They thought that we may have to write technical correspodence some day. #How silly.

[KI4FCP]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ July 27 2005,11:37)]Quote[/b] (KI4FCP @ July 27 2005,10:37)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 20 2005,17:24)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 20 2005,17:03)]It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, #so the newcomers can copy me.
It's an interesting solution to the problem of attracting people to the hobby. #Do you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"? #Doubtful. #Those who are most likely to do any advancing are playing with Part 15 devices in the form of Wifi networking.

Certainly I don't see beer belches and farting on 75 SSB attracting any electrical engineers.
And what advancements have you gave us? # By the way im a EE III with a masters and 12 us patents.....oh by the way im a NCT and proud of it. #so i guess thats why im not on 75M, cuz the good ole boys like the fact no newbes are there holding there feet to the fire like we should be doing to clean up the bands instaed of uncle charlie doing it for us. # Ever think of that? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
And what advancements have you gave us? #

Congradutations on making EE, I to am an EE. #Unlike yourself however, we were forced to learn english as a condition the university placed on us for graduation.

They thought that we may have to write technical correspodence some day. #How silly.
I guess sarcasm is something they didn’t teach you either, read the sig file I misspell and use bad grammar intentionally. And I posed the question to you; you are the one who pointed out NCT techs have nothing to offer. And what have I done for you? Well the project I work on have improved portable construction lighting to allow for near daylight conditions at night, this allows road work to be done in the off hours. Also my units have brought power to folks would normally be in the dark. Now I ask what have you done?

[W5MJL]

So you are saying you hold 12 US Patents in the lighting industry. Can you give us the patent numbers so we can check it out? I know I would love to know of a ham radio operator this prestigious.

[K5UOS]

KI4FCP,

Hey, my hat is off to you sir! Its not an easy task to intentionally act and sound like an illiterate buffoon. Good job all around! I only have a BS. But I have found simple BS is sometimes very effective when communicating with EE's acting like buffoons. My dad was an EE and certainly did not have your talent. Yet he never understood my BS. Maybe you will?

K5UOS

PS. One good thing. I thought you were going to tell us you invented the internet. If so, I certainly would have appreciated your illiterate buffoon act even more.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (KI4FCP @ July 27 2005,11:47)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ July 27 2005,11:37)]Quote[/b] (KI4FCP @ July 27 2005,10:37)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ July 20 2005,17:24)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 20 2005,17:03)]It's a race - will CW go away before the noise level on HF makes it worthless anyway? Stay tuned for further developments. I'm hoping neither of those things happens, but both are possibilities. I'll have to hang up the Vibroplex and start using a keyboard again, I guess, #so the newcomers can copy me.
It's an interesting solution to the problem of attracting people to the hobby. #Do you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"? #Doubtful. #Those who are most likely to do any advancing are playing with Part 15 devices in the form of Wifi networking.

Certainly I don't see beer belches and farting on 75 SSB attracting any electrical engineers.
And what advancements have you gave us? # By the way im a EE III with a masters and 12 us patents.....oh by the way im a NCT and proud of it. #so i guess thats why im not on 75M, cuz the good ole boys like the fact no newbes are there holding there feet to the fire like we should be doing to clean up the bands instaed of uncle charlie doing it for us. # Ever think of that? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
And what advancements have you gave us? #

Congradutations on making EE, I to am an EE. #Unlike yourself however, we were forced to learn english as a condition the university placed on us for graduation.

They thought that we may have to write technical correspodence some day. #How silly.
I guess sarcasm is something they didn’t teach you either, read the sig file I misspell and use bad grammar intentionally. #And I posed the question to you; you are the one who pointed out NCT techs have nothing to offer. #And what have I done for you? #Well the project I work on have improved portable construction lighting to allow for near daylight conditions at night, this allows road work to be done in the off hours. Also my units have brought power to folks would normally be in the dark. #Now I ask what have you done?
OK, sounds like fun. #Lets sea if eye kan doo it. #Yoo sayd eye sed no koders dident have nothing too ofer. #Wel yer rong #I dident say that.

Boy, that's fun. #I should have figured out by the poor grammar and misspellings in your second response that you were doing it on purpose. #I stand corrected.

By the way, I wasn't being sarcastic. I am now.

[KI4FCP]

no there not in lighting, there for portable light plants. #and you still havent answered the main question. #What do YOU have to offer the service. #You stated NCT's have nothing to offer, so what is it you have to offer knowing code please do tell.

"you think that having it remarkably easy to get a license is going to attract anyone who can possibly "advance the radio art"?

I belive this is what you wrote, so now again i ask since you know code what have you done to advance the art? By the look at the number of posts and the number I have id say one of us is on the air more than the PC. HMMMMMMMMMMM I wonder who?

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (KI4FCP @ July 27 2005,15:14)]no there not in lighting, there for portable light plants. #and you still havent answered the main question. #What do YOU have to offer the service. #You stated NCT's have nothing to offer, so what is it you have to offer knowing code please do tell.
Patent numbers please?

[W5MJL]

Tell you what. I'll cut you some slack. How about you tell us the institution that gave you a masters in electrical engineering and the year you graduated?

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 21 2005,23:22)] Yehhhhhhhhh Hawwwwwwwww happy days will soon be here again and it's about time http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

The US has finally heard what other nations have been saying. CW is an old and out of date means of communication. These dudes on the commission are doing what should have been done a long time ago.

Now, make the written exams harder.

Breaker 20m Does anyone have their ears on? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I still have not had anyone help me to understand why CW is any more out of date NOW than it was circa 1970 when I first was licensed as a 5wpm Novice.

Not any help at all. CW was obsolete when radiotelephony became widely available in the 1920s.....right?

The only thing I can come up with is this cable. (http://home.att.net/~n8st/cwhardkey.html) We didn't have that cable when I was a novice. Is that why Morse is now obsolete?

[KI4FCP]

Quote[/b] (w5mjl @ July 27 2005,13:26)]Tell you what. #I'll cut you some slack. How about you tell us the institution that gave you a masters in electrical engineering and the year you graduated?
i see your game sir, and im not playing sure is funny you question me once you dont like what i have to say well my last statement to you is simple ,,!,, haw

as for patents there under our corp name as a shared property, and the school simple USC 1996

now with that said, drop off and twist, jerks like yourself are the reason this service will fade away. Oh yea if your so great coddie why cant you crack the code i placed in my posts, what 13wpm is hard for ya to read.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (KI4FCP @ July 27 2005,15:31)]Quote[/b] (w5mjl @ July 27 2005,13:26)]Tell you what. #I'll cut you some slack. How about you tell us the institution that gave you a masters in electrical engineering and the year you graduated?
i see your game sir, and im not playing sure is funny you question me once you dont like what i have to say well my last statement to you is simple ,,!,, #haw

as for patents there under our corp name as a shared property, and the school simple USC 1996

now with that said, drop off and twist, jerks like yourself are the reason this service will fade away. #Oh yea if your so great coddie why cant you crack the code i placed in my posts, what 13wpm is hard for ya to read.
I'm not playing a game at all. #You came here and said you hold 12 US patents, and have a masters degree in EE. #I knew you didn't hold any patents, and when I check with USC I would not be surprised if your name is not listed. #You said you made major contributions to amateur radio, but I fail to see how lighting has anything to do with amateur radio. # #You may have worked on lighting projects, but for all we know you could be the guy that got the real EE some coffee. #I just want to make sure we are listening to someone who is an expert, not a legend in his own mind.

I'm not a fan of people who blow smoke.

[al2i]

Please note that I posted some time ago about educational standards in this country. We had a communications engineer with a year 2000 college degree spend days trying to have his installers make a 10.9 gHz microwave system work with 18 gHz waveguide. It boggles the mind.

[W5MJL]

Well KI4FCP, so far you are coming up with a blank. #Did you graduate from the Viterbi school of engineering at USC? #Are you sure you have a masters in EE? #Does USC stand for something other than University of Southern California, or should I have asked the University of South Carolina?

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (w5mjl @ July 27 2005,14:36)]Well KI4FCP, so far you are coming up with a blank. #Did you graduate from the Veterbi school of engineering at USC? #Are you sure you have a masters in EE? #Does USC stand for something other than University of Southern California, or should I have asked the University of South Carolina?
If you read his previous post he said " simple USC". You probably looked up the wrong school. Everyone knows simple USC is a famous school of electrical knowlege and stuff.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ July 27 2005,16:40)]If you read his previous post he said " simple USC". #You probably looked up the wrong school. #Everyone knows simple USC is a famous school of electrical knowlege and stuff.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Yep, you are probably correct. simple USC probably doesn't even keep records of their graduates. That would be too difficult.

[K0RGR]

Well, don't look down your noses at him, just because you'all went to Harvard and all...

I've worked with a number of good engineers that couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted them the 'c' and the 't'. That's probably why they kept me around, as a proofreader.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 27 2005,16:03)]Well, don't look down your noses at him, just because you'all went to Harvard and all...

I've worked with a number of good engineers that couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted them the 'c' and the 't'. That's probably why they kept me around, as a proofreader.
I myself can't spell for beans but spelling aside, I bet all of engineers you worked with could at least write a coherent sentence.

I don't recall any of my peers being functionally illiterate.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 27 2005,18:03)]Well, don't look down your noses at him, just because you'all went to Harvard and all...

I've worked with a number of good engineers that couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted them the 'c' and the 't'. That's probably why they kept me around, as a proofreader.
I only look down my nose at him because he came here and tried to blow smoke up everyone's butt. He said he had a masters degree in EE, and 12 US Patents. He admitted to not having the patents, and I called USC and they have no record of him in their masters program in 1996.

He also said he PURPOSELY uses bad grammar. Give me a break.

That all speaks volumes to me.

[KB1JLI]

Whats the big deal? You all afraid that no one will be around to to it anymore? There will always be people doing CW. So dont dump in your pants.

[K7FE]

JLI,
Your green text is very difficult to read.

Gentlemen,
The comments are becoming a bit too personal.

Terry, K7FE
One of the QRZ.Com Moderators

[n9zxk]

WYU and others,

You can take my word on this TESTOR'S dont use horse's in their glue.....

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (n9zxk @ July 28 2005,13:14)]WYU and others,

# #You can take my word on this TESTOR'S dont use horse's in their glue.....
What do they use?

[N8CPA]

"Yes, I could wait and it'd just be given to me, but I don't see much point in getting on HF without speaking the language."

And that was the essence of the old (pre '87)Novice license. #Theoretically, you didn't get speech privileges until you learned to read and write the language of Amateur Radio by using it. #And if you made regular use of your #Novice privileges, by the time you got General prvilieges, the only the thing that gave you away as a newbie, was your informing the other guy that you were new. #

That is what was lost when Technician became the entry level license, the experience before voice privileges, and probably due to the misguided expectation that books could substitute for the practical orientation.

You have the right attitude. #Good luck!