Hamstick Dipoles

[kb9zcv]

I have recently been volunteering for antenna work in our local area trying to learn more about our hobby.

I helped put up an antenna that I had never seen before. #We put up an antenna that was made of 2 mobile #antennas, 2-20 meter hamsticks, used as a dipole for 20 meters.

I am new at ham radio and joined the local club. A fellow ham showed me how you can take 2- 20 meter hamsticks and convert them to a horizontal 20 meter dipole.

I was quite impressed! We are going to put up a 40 meter dipole too. #I got the job of climbing the tower, of course, I am the "young-new guy".

It was 36 degrees outside that day with a wind of about 20 miles per hour. (that is another story) #I actually learned quite a bit! #You can make low frequency dipoles from mobile antennas!

This has become the "ultimate" antenna in our area now. This antenna has all the same results of the "big" antennas but takes up a lot less space.

Can we get them in 160 meters? #I hope we can wait for warmer weather to find out!!

KB9ZCV, Jeff

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes Jeff, 160 meters is possible. #When I was a newbie a bunch of old timers show me a can of eXtended Range Antenna Wax that they just raved about. #I got so excited I put it on my home TV antenna. #When I reported to them that "nothing happened" they told me that "it's only forumlated for ham frequencies". #Ah Ha!, I thought, this is going to be a lifelong learning experience.

Welcome to the hobby!

-fred #AA7BQ
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

[kg4fjk]

I have to agree - those ham stick dipoles are the tops! I was running a vhf station at my club's hamfest w/ my 706 MKIIG. I took (and passed) the general and code tests, went to a vendor, bought the kit (about $50) and 15 minutes later was making psk contacts in Europe! I'll be getting a tower one of these days but for now I'm convinced.

73,
Jaime

[flyslow]

Sounds interesting. Is there a site that gives plans and layout for building these sort of antennas? Are they for towwers only or can they be hidden in an apartment?

73s

KG4RNB Mike

[ke5wj]

OK, let's see how to explain this.

A vertical antenna usually works because the ground reflects the signal and acts like a mirror image of the vertical antenna. With a dipole, the other half of the dipole does the same thing, so just about any vertical made to work over a ground plane can be used in a dipole configuration. Conversely you can take half of a dipole and use it over a groundplane, too.

As far as efficiency, shortened antennas are never as efficient as a full-sized one. The radiation resistance drops as you shorten the antenna and it also loses resonance. The resonance can be handled by loading it with a coil, tuner, or other impedance matching system, but there's not much to be done about the radiation resistance - which represents what actually gets radiated. When an antenna gets very short, the resistance in the wires, coils, etc. gets higher in relation to the radiation resistance, so the antenna efficiency drops.

Now, how important are those things? Well that depends. Two shortened verticals will never work as well as a full sized dipole. On 20m and higher the wavelengths are short enough that the shortening may not be too bad. (I don't remember the actual size of a ham stick.) In that case you may get fairly decent performance and not notice the difference with ham gear. If you go to longer wavelengths, the shortening is more severe, the physical resistance about the same (maybe a little less due to less skin effect), but the radiation resistance is much lower, hence poorer performance.

However, again, it's all relative. If you don't have room for a full sized antenna, at least the shortened version will get you on the air. You may be able to rotate a shortened version to take advantage of its pattern, whereas rotating a full size dipole can be very hard to do. If the ground plane you have is pretty poor, the other half of the dual vertical dipole may be much better and reduce your losses. In other words it all depends on your situation.

Don't forget, you can make lots of contacts with a miserable antenna. That doesn't mean antennas don't matter, but many people tend to over-estimate the effect of a poor antenna. For example, a dipole in free space has a gain of about 2 dBi, while putting it over a perfect ground runs the gain to around 5 dBi or so, depending on height. Let's say a shortened version has a gain of around 2 dBi mounted above ground, so you've lost 3 dB or half your signal. Since it takes about 6 dB to make an S-unit, you've lost 1/2 an S-unit. Take a look at the S-meter on your rig while listening to someone and see if you could tell the difference. In most cases, you couldn't, since the signal fluctuates that much anyway. Unless your signal was marginal with the full sized antenna, it will still be copyable with the shortened version.

Of course with a decent quad, yagi, etc. you could get 10-20 dBi gain or more, depending on design and other factors, and that would be noticeable.

As a side note, I am currently operating from inside an apartment with a 6 ft base loaded telescoping whip and 2 radials. I work lots of stations from all over the world (got DXCC last year alone) and I know that my antenna isn't great. Modeling indicates that it may do as well as a dipole, if I ignore losses in the building, walls, etc. But, there's not much other option, so I use it to advantage.

Good luck and enjoy operating. If you have room and resources for either a full-sized dipole or some sort of beam, you'll do better, but maybe not much depending on your situation. A full-sized dipole is easy to build and would certainly be cheaper.

Take care and 73,

[N8YV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke5wj @ April 10 2002,18:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as efficiency, shortened antennas are never as efficient as a full-sized one. The radiation resistance drops as you shorten the antenna and it also loses resonance. The resonance can be handled by loading it with a coil, tuner, or other impedance matching system, but there's not much to be done about the radiation resistance - which represents what actually gets radiated. When an antenna gets very short, the resistance in the wires, coils, etc. gets higher in relation to the radiation resistance, so the antenna efficiency drops.

However, again, it's all relative. If you don't have room for a full sized antenna, at least the shortened version will get you on the air.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree with the quoted portions of this post. #I also disagree with other points made in the rest of it. #Bottom line is this---if you have the room, make it count and use a well-designed, full size antenna. Otherwise, use what you can get away with.

As far as the side note about six meters, I congratulate its author on his VUCC. #However, six meters is much more affected by one's location than many HF bands. I too, earned VUCC on 50 MHz, but I guarantee I could NOT have done so with the author's arrangement in the attic---so a Yagi was installed last year, which helped solve my problem of bad geographic location. #Without that Yagi, I could not have earned VUCC.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W5ATX]

Bottom line: A compromise in size is a compromise in performance. A rubber duck will work just fine on your 2 meter walkie talkie, but move away from the repeater and it won't work as well as a 19" whip. Fact, not fiction. If the repeater is a mile away, you'll never notice. But that doesn't mean the duck is working as well as a whip would work.

No sir, that hamstick dipole is NOT as good as a full size dipole. But if that's the only game in town, it beats not playing.

Good luck,

Chris

[kc9aic]

I have heard of hamstick Yagis. That would give you some gain, so you may be able to out-perform a dipole (of course,you would need a rotator, though). I don't know how they work, but I guess you proably change the size of the whip or otherwise make the reflectors longer and directors smaller. Hamsticks are 7 feet long, so the elements would be about 14 feet across. It may be better just to get a tribander.
KC9AIC

I use a variant of the HamStick dipole for 10M. My 10M rigid-rotatable dipole is made from 2 normal fiberglass CB whips, pruned to 10M, and works well with no more than 1.5 SWR across the 10M band. It is up at about 32 feet. Also, with the tuner, it will work 10, 12, 15, 17, & 20M. I also have experiment (at a JOTA event) with one made out of 1/4" diameter 304 stainless, with equal results. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ka2vey]

I just recently tried this for 40 m, and it worked ok. I had the two elements up about 15 feet (one possible reason for poor matching) and the two elements are not identical. One is a Ham-Stick from about 10 years ago, and the other is an MFJ variant about a year old. The are of slightly different physical dimensions (coil size, whip length are a few inches different.) As far as the Yagi goes, shorter antennas have lower radiaton resistance, and using parasitic elements may likely compound this problem. My antenna support was a PVC mast that requires no guying and holds two pair of these dipoles, although to date I have only put one up in the air at a time. Since I live in a basement appartment, I wanted something that could be put up/taken down by one person in 5 minutes, in the dark, and this works fairly well.

73,
Scott

[KC2JCA]

Murphy's law has taken effect. Up until I read the original message yesterday, at least once a day I would come across the website that sold the required adapter to construct this Ham Stick Dipole.

Of course, now that this info would be good to have, I can't find it.

But I'm still looking.

It's really quite easy to construct, two fiberglass whip bumpermount adapters put back to back...offset so PL-259s can be attached. But I wish I could find the website...


73, Jim - kc2jca

[WA3WDK]

For those interested, here is an article on the subject of the Hamstick Dipole. #Included in the article are several references, including one to what I believe must be the web site that Jim was looking for.

http://www.eham.net/articles/2621

Jonathan
WA3WDK

[n5pht]

QUESTION PLEASE: I have one of these adapters that allow the two hamsticks to be used. What about then using them as a 'sloper dipole?' I have used 1/2 wave wire dipoles as slopers very effectively. Would this work for the two hamsticks? Any ideas appreciated.

Please send to my email any responses. email is:

gary@dav.net

I thank you in advance. If this would create a little gain (like a full wave sloper does) that would be excellent for 40 meters.

73 de N5PHt, Gary

[KC2JCA]

Not what I was thinking of on hamstick.com, but if I can upload this graphic successfully, it will give you the idea of what I had seen several times somewhere else.

73, Jim - kc2jca

[MAB2003]

stick dipoles are the best they work really great for me at least

kg6ktz~mab2003~mike

[NQ4S]

I can't say enough good things about the Hamstick dipole. #Due to local restrictions I have to keep all my antennas indoor. #With a small townhouse, and an even smaller actic space, this doesn't leave a lot of room to work.

My first (and still primary) antenna is a 58-foot wire loop run into a SGC SG-239 autotuner. #This work across all the HF bands from 80m to 10m. #80m and 40m tend to be rather marginal, but it works pretty well on 20m on up through 10m.

To try and get a little extra boost, I put a Hamstick dipole in for 20m. #At 14' from end to end, it barely fit in the attic. #Still, on 20m, it gets about one S unit better signal than the loop does. #This has made a real difference several times.

Of note, with either antenna, I've worked all over Europe and as far as Australia from Virginia using only 100 Watts. Even indoors, there is some serious DX to be had.

If you are space limited, I highly recommend the solution. #HRO had the bracket with dual lugs for holding the two Hamsticks in place. #All that had to be custom built was a harness for the coax (two ring adapters).

73 de NQ4S

[AC7RO]

HRO carries the mtg bracket that alows two of these HAMSTICKS to be mounted as a dipole.
I wouldn't recommend this technique for a home QTH solution but for traveling, it will work.
Just remember that a shortened antenna will have a very narrow bandwidth.
AC7RO

[ad4c]

Yes Jeff like the other guy wrotte,you can use them anywhere you like,but remember the wavelenght of short antennas for low bands(160,80,40) is not enough to have decent gain,,so when you put them up,they work certainly but they are low profile antennas,also,the lower the freq you are,the narrower bandwith you will have and then you MUST use a tuner,having them less gain when you are off the resonant point,I have used that combination of hamsticks in dipole configuration for some years now,and the do work fantastically well on higher frecuencies over 20M,but poorly below 40M,the one I had for 80 it just had 20Khz bandwith and the results were too poor in terms of signal radiated at 45 feet over the ground,always remember that the shorter the antenna is in terms of wavelenght the less efficiency it will has,right now I do have for 15 and 10M hamsticks dipoles as antennas and I am pleased with them,but for 80,40 and 20M I use the famous double bazookas.
Have succes,73 and good DX's
Hector AD4C

[N5TJU]

I ordered a mounting adapter and two mobile whips from buxcommco and was pleased with the quality and customer service. Here's the information for those interested

http://www.buxcommco.com/budget_ant.htm

73,

Cliff

[kc8ppd]

How interesting. I've been thinking about this and I'm glad to hear your experiences with it. My 40m ant. is a single hamstick with a counterpoise wire on my 17th floor and it is a terrible perfomer. I'm considering to use it in this configuration.

This subject is probably not so foreign. My 1990 ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook explains this in the Antenna Chapter under a paragraph that describes "Helically Wound Shortened Dipole". Maybe this can give you additional info on the subject.

I only wonder if one would need a balun transformer since it is a dipole.

Have fun!
Ketut, KC8PPD

[wb0whm]

As one of my "elmers" would say, "any antenna is better that no antenna". Check the website "www.hamstick.com" for a dipole connector. 73--Jeff/wb0whm

[n2ea]

Hamsticks actually work quite well as short dipoles.
They're not overly efficient....but very convenient.

Radio Works has blocks which allow you to screw
two of these together. I think there are also
brackets which can clamp on an apartment balcony
railing.

You have to be reasonable in your expectations, though.
On 20, it's a 33' piece of wire, compressed down to...
what..10'? On 160, it'd be a 256' piece of wire
compressed to something like 14'. The former will
work with reasonable efficiency. The latter will not.

Jim/N2EA

[K9IDX]

Honestly, I've just put together what I honestly think is the best you can do from an apartment with a balcony.
A combination of the Hamstick dipole, an Alumiglass retractable pole from Home Depot and a coax wound in 6 loops at the feedpoint (balun), this thing rocks!
With the help of the Alumiglass pole, I can jack the dipole up over the roof of the apartment and then ease it down and hide it under the eaves when I'm done.
If anyone wants pictures, drop me a line.
Regards - Jim K9IDX

[k0xu]

The adapter is sold by the Lakeview company for their ham stick line:

www.hamstick.com

Jim, K0XU

[W8OKN]

Much has been said on this thread. #

Food for thought... #I once read an article about 20 years ago that said this, #"The more wire in the sky, the better." #That's true to a point. #I am sure that the smaller whips work. #I've used them. #I also know that my dipole works better. #It's simple math. #

This is a great thread, though. #These discussions are fantastic for learning about this great hobby.

[w8cbs]

Just one question...........are the hamsticks fed with
50 or 75 ohm coax??????Interesting either way!

[VU3SNM]

Hi folks,
Someone asked for a website which gives details on constructing a portable HF antenna.
Go to
www.qsl.net/w3ff
Budd has designed this multiband pedestrain mobile antenna that can be used by a walking station or even by travellers like me!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Its a terrific antenna that can do wonders. I have one and I have used it while travelling.The site gives you info on how to go about. Budd sells them also..for around USD 50' ish.
73'
Sasi
9V1SM / VU3SNM

[kr6dj]

I reguarly use a 20M hamstick on my balcony with a wire counterpoise. I've had terrific results and work DX just about every night. I tuned it by trimming the stinger for 14.025 and use a manual tuner to adjust it for the phone portion of the band.

I'm thinking about getting a 40M hamstick for use in the CW portion of the band. If anyone has done that with good (or bad) results please let me know.

73
Ken

I made a 75 meter hamstick dipole. Best radiating dummy load I ever saw. The vertical work SSO much better.

BB, K5HDG

[w0ifl]

I'll be using a 20M dipole hamstick up about 25 feet at the Earth-day special event station KØC from the Missouri State Capital on Friday, April 19 from about 1500 to 2000 UTC. All WX permitting. I'll also be QRP. Look for us around the CW QRP Frequencies. Even though it is a 20M antenna, I have tuned it on several bands.

If we QSO, We will QSL with a certificate.

RonE.
WØIFL

[wa7fje]

I use 2 Valor 40M whips connected with a dipole
mounting I got at HRO. #I use a tuner with it to
get decent coverage on 40-20-15. #I have used a
decoupling loop at the feed point as "BuxComm"
shows, but it doesn't seem to affect much. #Its
mounted outside my motorhome, on a 15' PVC
pipe, so to rotate it, I just open the window and
turn the pipe....Randy....WA7FJE

[KD5LHG]

I found this web site a while back and it has the bracket and antennas for the dipole you were working with.
http://www.buxcommco.com/budget_ant.htm

73's
KD5LHG

[n6ajr]

HRO in oakland Ca has lots of these adapters,and they work ok, mine was a full s unit down from a 5 band vert on 40, but still useable.. tom N6AJR