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View Full Version : Green eggs and Ham? #That thar's Spam!


ks5d
04-09-2002, 04:38 PM
I've noticed a disturbing trend as of late with Spam I get in my Inbox. #As a computer professional I'm used to being barraged with all varieties of the processed meat product, but I've fiercely maintained the secrecy of my Holiest of Holies -- my One True e-mail address. #However, ever since obtaining an arrl.net alias I have said alias pointing to it. #Alas! #Rome was not built in a day, but was consumed by fire in one night as Nero fiddled! #

It's unbelievable how so many people out there want little old me to be richer, happier, thinner, smarter, et cetera. #Why, there was one person just yesterday who wanted to stash millions in an account in my name and then share it with me. #True friends are indeed hard to find.

Now let me put the levity and sarcasm aside for a moment. #What is undoubtedly happening is that websites are being scoured for e-mail addresses. #I would be quite surprised if QRZ.com and eHam.net both were not victims of this kind of abuse. #And abuse it is. #As hams, we have these forums in which to meet, exchange ideas, and otherwise communicate (aside from QSOs, that is). #These e-mail mass marketers are taking advantage of the fact that we supply e-mail addresses here that we tend to use often. #As a result, we get nailed with spam that hawks everything from pyramid schemes to bootleg Viagra.

How can we stop this? #Well, there is little that QRZ.com, eHam.net, and others can do to stop their websites from being abused. #Automated search engines called "crawlers" can scour a website and capture anything that looks like an e-mail address. #These crawlers are unstoppable without locking everyone out of the website. #What has to happen is on our end. #First and foremost, don't fall for the "Unsubscribe" or "Opt-Out" links found in most of the spam we get these days. #While some of these unsubscribe links are legitimate, others are simply used to see if the mass marketers found an e-mail address that someone actually uses. #The irony is that the attempt on your part to stop the spam might actually make it worse.

The best thing to do is find out where in your e-mail software you can set up message rules. #I use Outlook Express, and in that software you can configure a spam lockout rule under Tools -> Message Rules -> Mail... #The idea is to build up a list of key words and phrases that the spam uses but your valid e-mail does not. #You then instruct your software to automatically delete these messages from the server, or perhaps move them to another folder out of the way. #There will usually be separate sections for subject keywords and message body keywords, so that gives you much flexibility in determining what constitutes spam. #These keywords can be joined by an AND or an OR. #That part is important because if you connect all keywords with ANDs then each keyword must appear before the rule will dispatch your spam. #Set them to OR.

My current spam rule is still in its infancy as I lost my old one due to an operating system crash, but here are some of the words and phrases I trap: #xxx, web cam, web cams, financial freedom, making money, sex, no obligation, mortgage, earning, per month, adult video, FREE, $$$.

I hope that this tip helps folks from choking to death on the processed meat product of the Internet. #We are, after all, hams (pun intended).

73,
Edwin Alexander #KS5D

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would like to add that QRZ does not support and has never participated in SPAMMING operations. # Advertisers keep asking us and we keep saying NO. #In fact, we say HELL NO! ##My own personal mailbox gets at least 150 spams a day. # If you've been on the net long enough, you have SPAM. #I've had the same email address for the past 8 years and every spammer on the planet seems to know me. #Fortunately, I have a lightning-fast DELETE button and I've learned how to spot and kill SPAMS before opening them, which saves a lot of time.

The author of this article is quite correct about the 'Unsubscribe' options. #NEVER, EVER, RESPOND TO A SPAM. #Doing so only makes it worse.

-fred AA7bq
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

04-10-2002, 10:14 PM
This is a good article I'm going to e-mail it to my grandpa and all the other hams I know. This is a serious subject and with the humor actually kept my intrest and taught me something http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . I appreciate the info on how to cut down on the spam and even am going to tell all my non-Ham friends, and my mom.. and... KD7QQO@rn.com

w8ob
04-11-2002, 12:10 AM
although not 100 percent effective, I have used the software
"spam punisher" to get quite a few of these spammers kicked off
their ISP's. A very large bulk of this crap comes out of north korea
and other asian countries. When dealling with spammers there upon
tracking the orgin of the spam, you have to do a WHOIS search on
the govermental site before reporting the abuse. the best message
you can get is " we have investigated this abuse and have removed
this person from our site". I agree never ever reply to a spam message
or try to opt out. Of course the delete button works great too.

n8avx
04-11-2002, 01:08 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DocRF @ April 10 2002,19:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The moral to my story is that I keep a semi-anonymous email address (like przycki31@yahoo.com) around specifically for subscribing to newsletters, which is mainly where I step into the spam quicksand. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Boy, is Mr. Przycki going to be mad at you for publishing his email address!

The spammers have new tools to help them find you. They have "email address generators" that will take common address combo such as first initial/last name or lastname first initial (to use Mr. Przycki as an example) such as jprzycki@ and przyckij@ and then just start appending domain names to them and blasing them out. I have an address that uses a made-up word, not found in any dictionary. It isn't fool proof, but it does make the namespace that much larger to search... So far, no spam for almost a year...

73,
Jim N8AVX

KF4BOT
04-11-2002, 01:08 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w8ob @ April 09 2002,18:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">although not 100 percent effective, I have used the software
"spam punisher" to get quite a few of these spammers kicked off
their ISP's. A very large bulk of this crap comes out of north korea
and other asian countries. When dealling with spammers there upon
tracking the orgin of the spam, you have to do a WHOIS search on
the govermental site before reporting the abuse. the best message
you can get is " we have investigated this abuse and have removed
this person from our site". I agree never ever reply to a spam message
or try to opt out. Of course the delete button works great too.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've used Spam Punisher software. It does a search for the originating ISP. I've found that most of the time, Spam Punisher comes up with a dead end. Even when it comes up with a valid ISP, you send the e-mail to the ISP, and the same creep is using some other ISP the next day. As for key words in Outlook Express' message rules, these creeps keep changing what they put in the subject, or what's in the sender's e-mail address. One such royal pain in the butt is the one peddling "University Diplomas". Just when you think they're filtered out, they come up with U.N.I.V.E.R.S.I.T.Y. D.I.P.L.O.M.A.S. I am sick of wasting my time trying to filter them and "punish" them. It is just too time consuming, and its a losing battle. The "Delete" key is the easiest and quickest way to deal with spam. When an e-mail address becomes too saturated with this junk, its time for an e-mail address change. Warning: Don't ever publish your e-mail address on an eBay auction. You'll be getting 20+ spams a day! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

wa4cch
04-11-2002, 03:13 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I'll tell you what ticks me off is whenever i check in to arrl.net and check hamfest list or fcc actions the next day i will find anywhere from five to ten porno e-mails this only happens when i use the arrl.net site whats the deal here http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif? does anyone else have the same problem http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif? i don't mind the credit card offers ect but the porn crap pi*****s me off
thanks and 73 de wa4cch http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

K4VMO
04-11-2002, 03:28 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif The ARRL alias is evidently the porn headquarters of the internet! #Every day, I get from six to ten porn spams, all of which appear to have passed through the ARRL server. #I just hit "delete" as soon as I see the crap appear on the received list. #I then empty the Deleted folder. #If I get more than three from the same spammer, I use the "block sender" option.
73,
Frank, K4VMO

N7MK
04-11-2002, 04:55 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KF4BOT @ April 10 2002,18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've used Spam Punisher software. It does a search for the originating ISP. I've found that most of the time, Spam Punisher comes up with a dead end.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Try a program called "Mail Washer." #It goes out and checks your email on your POP server before your email program (like Outlook Express) and if you find SPAM, check it and the program bounces it back FROM the POP server, and the bounced message is from "Mailer Daemon". #It looks like your address is invalid. #

Eventually, some of the spammers stop selling your address to each other. Of course it doesn't work for the ones that do the "name@various domains" method of spamming mentioned in another reply on this topic.

The idea is kinda the same as for the Telezapper. #


m

04-11-2002, 01:33 PM
MailWasher does seem to work. I takes a few bounces, but I went from about 20 spams a day to 2 or 3. And if you eat that much Spam in a day, well.......... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

kc0isu
04-11-2002, 02:41 PM
Don't make your email address too easy to spot. Registered here on QRZ, my email address is (at) instead of using the @. That way, it forces someone to manually type in the correct email. I'm sure spam bots will update and look for that, if everyone started doing that. You just have to think outside the box.

w7uy
04-11-2002, 03:43 PM
http://dns1.silverstar.com/~giese/bob3.jpg

I contacted ARRL about the SPAM problem and while they do not sell any email list, they do have visitors who collect email address for SPAM.

One thing that I do with SPAM would help if everyone did it. #One out of perhaps one to two hundrded SPAMs is something that I am really interested in. #However, I never contact those sites and put them in my mental SPAM list. #

If the SPAMers never got any response, they would give up.

73, Robert

kb9nxl
04-11-2002, 07:55 PM
I used mw ARRL.net address ONCE on an eham.net message board and immediately began recieving UCE (Unsolicited Commercial E-mails) in my inbox. Three or four every day. The delete button works, however I do not lke the idea of the ARRL server having to waste it's bandwidth to relay SPAM. If ARRL or any other server has to upgrade to handle the amount of mail because of UCE, we all pay for it sooner or later.

If you read the headers, and perhaps do a WHOIS you can often find a way to contact the sender other than the provided UNSUBSCRIBE (never use). A quick e-mail to the senders main address gets me off their list. More importantly, I tell them how their source got my address. If they REALLY don't like SPAM, they will find a different source.

This takes a little more work, but does actually reduce the amount of UCE in my inbox to 1 or 2 a week. I hope it also takes a bit of the profit from those "anything for money" people out there who trade your email addresses for dollars.

73 and don't let them ruin email for you. Scott

n9nrw
04-12-2002, 02:39 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb9nxl @ April 11 2002,12:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I used mw ARRL.net address ONCE on an eham.net message board and immediately began recieving UCE (Unsolicited Commercial E-mails) in my inbox[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I can't believe this is the first time anyone mentioned this. Folks, when you use your e-mail on any message board it WILL be picked up for spam lists. You want to reduce span in your mail box? Use an alias you don't really care about for posting, then change it when the spam gets to bad.

kc0msq
04-12-2002, 08:16 PM
Don't give up your email address or be afraid to use the net - make the spammers give up on you! Fight back. Use Mail Washer (http://www.mailwasher.net). I do and it works. It won't get rid of all spam, but it will reduce the onslaught and make the rest easier to identify and delete.

73,
Paul.

N1NKM
04-12-2002, 11:05 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7MK @ April 10 2002,21:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Try a program called "Mail Washer." #It goes out and checks your email on your POP server before your email program (like Outlook Express) and if you find SPAM, check it and the program bounces it back FROM the POP server, and the bounced message is from "Mailer Daemon". #It looks like your address is invalid. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I tried it, and it is ***SLICK***!!! Finally, I can ZAP that WRETCHED SPAM, and give the spammer indigestion at the same time!!! AWESOME!!!

Here's the address to get this NIFTY little program:

http://www.mailwasher.net/

BTW, it only seems to work with "POP3" type e-mail addresses. Thus, if you're using AOL, you won't be able to use this, there.

Another VERY effective method of getting SPAMMERS kicked off of their servers (and getting "open relays" closed) is to go to WWW.SPAMCOP.NET and check out their setup. It gives you a custom address that you FORWARD your SPAM to. It then sends an e-mail back to you, with a SPAM ID code that you copy & paste into your browser. This site then parses ALL of the mail headers, performing the WHOIS searches AUTOMATICALLY! It filters out all of the fakes, and usually boils it all down to a mere handful, where the system will send a note to the SysAdmin. Slick stuff. I've been using it for a year. It's not as slick as MAILWASHER, but you CAN use it with AOL, because you simply FORWARD the SPAM to it. Check it out. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

N1NKM

jxs2151
04-13-2002, 01:23 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ks5d @ April 09 2002,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now let me put the levity and sarcasm aside for a moment. #What is undoubtedly happening is that websites are being scoured for e-mail addresses. #I would be quite surprised if QRZ.com and eHam.net both were not victims of this kind of abuse. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know for a fact that the author of DXTelnet, a cluster application, scours QRZ.com for e-mail addresses and then spams hams.

I have asked him politely to stop sending me e-mail to no avail. #

You can go here: http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1692 to let others know that you do not appreciate having a fellow ham take advantage of the openness we display on qrz and eham.

ka2fir
04-13-2002, 02:42 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w7uy @ April 11 2002,08:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://dns1.silverstar.com/~giese/bob3.jpg

I contacted ARRL about the SPAM problem and while they do not sell any email list, they do have visitors who collect email address for SPAM.

One thing that I do with SPAM would help if everyone did it. #One out of perhaps one to two hundrded SPAMs is something that I am really interested in. #However, I never contact those sites and put them in my mental SPAM list. #

If the SPAMers never got any response, they would give up.

73, Robert[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Spammers mine websites for email addresses. Our aliases are exposed on the ARRL website. Try crawling the ARRL site using samspade and you'll see all the email addresses. If there is a way to hide them I don't know how other than keeping them on another server. We should suggest this to the ARRL, otherwise, I might let my membership expire. Lately, most of the spam is originating from South Korea. I've read that all the .kr schools have open relays because they were setup by the same people who don't know squat about security. Admins are now blocking whole address blocks from South Korea and China because the .kr and .cn admins don't respond to abuse reports. Even the Chinese Gov't is not happy about their address blocks now being blocked. Too bad. Our admins are doing their job protecting us from this invasion of privacy. NEVER REPLY TO THE UNSUBSCRIBE OR OPT-OUT LINK. They will only confirm your email address is good and sell it to others.

04-13-2002, 05:52 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jxs2151 @ April 12 2002,18:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
...that you do not appreciate having a fellow ham take advantage of the openness we display on qrz and eham.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you are open on the internet, who do you have to blame?

D-U-H ?

http://www.geocities.com/boxcarro/bobskullanim3_1_.gif

RM

IK4VYX
04-13-2002, 03:16 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Mr. jxs2151 wrote:
I know for a fact that the author of DXTelnet,
a cluster application, scours QRZ.com for e-mail
addresses and then spams hams.
...snip...
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Hi everybody de Fabrizio (IK4VYX),
the author of the software above mentioned by
mr. jxs2151.

Mr. jxs2151 is telling you half the story.
Have you ever known a spammers' real name?
I would guess no.
So if I were a spammer, now, for the first time, you
would know a spammer's name ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

In my modest opinion *SPAM* is when your address
gets into a sort of black box and you start
receiving dozens emails every day, dealing about junk
you're not interested in: they don't know you,
you don't know them.
Spammers are linked together in a chain.
Of course this rule *IS NOT* appliable to me
and I am not a ring of that dirty chain!!!

Mr. jxs2151, I can't see your callsign
or your name anywhere, while mostly everybody here
is visible with his callsign and name.

Never mind, but this shows that you are
someway throwing a stone, while hiding your hand.

If you click on the link of jxs2151's message
above, you will see that there are 8 reviews,
about my software, and only one is bad...
Who's that Guy? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Also, it seems it took mr. jxs2151 from 6 to 12
months to decide that a certain software is
junk... mmm... that's quite a long decision! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Believe me or not, after reading his review,
a few days ago I contacted mr. jxs2151 politely
asking him if he could describe the problems he had
with my software... no answer so far.

By the way it is not my intention to fall off topic
opening a polemic with mr. jxs2151
and even if he throws again I will try not picking
up his stone next time, unless he hits me too hard http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Coming back to *REAL SPAM*, keep in mind that
search engines see everything!
If your address is on a web page as user@hostname.com
and somebody runs a google search for "hostname.com"
(a list of main hostnames is easily available
to anybody) your address will probably show up
together with many others at the same hostname.
You cannot complain to the hostname keeper if
he is visible by search engines!

Then my suggestion is:
enter your address in such a way it is readable
by the humans but not by bots, by scrambling the
hostname field, more than the username.

Example:
user@hostname.delete_this.com
You will minimize spam cause it will be almost
impossible to retrieve your address with a
search by hostname.

Finally, never, never answer any spammer nor hit
their remove link:
otherwise you will confirm that your email
is valid and that you read their emails.
I bet that part of their commerce is based upon
exchange of valid email addresses!

P.S.
Have you ever heard of a spammer who tells you
how to avoid spam?
Or about a spammer that while visible to thousand
users does not get the chance to even mention
the name of his product?
Or about a spammer who, since recently, receives
tens of korean unreadable emails every day? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #

Mr. jxs2151, no hard feelings from this side
but please, try to be more correct when you
review and express comments about me and
the result of my honest work. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Best (((73))) de Fabrizio IK4VYX

KF4BOT
04-13-2002, 06:05 PM
I'd like to thank the person who suggested Mailwasher. I downloaded this nice piece of freeware yesterday. Now, I always screen all my e-mail through Mailwasher before retreiving any e-mail in Outlook Express. I bounce the spam first, then I retreive my legitimate e-mail. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As for the ARRL e-mail forwarding service, I've never received any spam through this source. The reason is that I've never given my ARRL e-mail alias out over the Internet. Don't blame ARRL or their web site. The only way you can get spam through ARRL is if you post to QRZ or eHam.net using your ARRL alias, or if you put it on your own web site. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

This brings up another point. I have a web site on QSL.net. I get no spam through my qsl.net alias. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #I have another non-ham related web site on Geocities. I get no spam at the e-mail address that is on that site. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Spammers seem to get e-mail addresses from QRZ and eHam. Its an even bigger problem with any e-mail address that you publish on eBay auctions. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

kb6nzv
04-13-2002, 10:43 PM
Hi there,
As a fellow sysadmin, you can (if your email server uses sendmail on some form of Unix) add the
domain-banning-function by compiling in the "access.db" feature.
You can protect large numbers of people by using this method.
I use it where I work to drop almost all the spam-garbage those bozo's try to send. The employees regularly alert me to new domains to block so everyone benefits.
The feature works *very* well and rejects the initial connection request thereby blocking the junkmail.
You need to keep on top of the logfiles though to block the new ones as they pop up like mushrooms!
73! de Phil KB6NZV http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

KAMR
04-14-2002, 03:02 PM
I recieve from time to time and often spam from the pornographer pushers. I have talked to several Senators and Representatives about this and the idea I tried to convey to them is: How would you treat the situation if someone out of nowhere called you on the telephone and began to engage you in "teen sex" dialouge etc. You would treat it as an obscene phone call and if it persisted you would have legal avenues at your disposal to get it stopped.

So what IS the difference of recieving e-mail in the same fashion? I see no difference whatsoever. I treat it as an obscene e-mail. So why hasn't our elected officials acted accordingly. Probably because as long as the money for relection comes forward not much thought goes into the source of the donation. So if you were selling porography the best way to stay in buisness is to donate to those who have the power to make the laws. The bigger the donation always give better results in getting the politician to do as you say not the will of his real constutuants. After all politicians no longer work for the people they represent unless they are a large doaner of money.

Look how much Enron accomplished and are walking away scott free and very rich with the help of our ridiculously lame banking laws that allow one to move money offshore to bank accounts untouchable. How many politicians have the same accounts I wonder.

Bob KA0MR

jxs2151
04-14-2002, 07:43 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 13 2002,17:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Fab,
You are a spammer who takes advantage of others. #You send unsolicited email and then rationalize it away with excuses about how you let people know how they can keep from getting your garbage. #You are no better than the average porn spammer.

I will try to be more correct with you as soon as you come to terms with the fact that you are a spammer. #Stop making excuses for your behavior and cut out the victim crap too, it makes you sound like a baby. # I have real difficulty feeling sorry for someone who pollutes email and then acts like someone is picking on them. #

BTW, the reason I use the alias jxs2151 is so scum like you cannot send me more garbage in my inbox. #I am really surprised that QRZ.com hasn't terminated your account since they know you scour their site and spam hams. #

Now don't go acting like a crybaby because I have the guts to call you what you really are- a spammer and a scourge upon the ham community for your spamming actions. #

The truth hurt?

jxs2151
04-14-2002, 07:45 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Radiomercenary @ April 13 2002,07:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jxs2151 @ April 12 2002,18:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
...that you do not appreciate having a fellow ham take advantage of the openness we display on qrz and eham.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you are open on the internet, who do you have to blame?

D-U-H ?

http://www.geocities.com/boxcarro/bobskullanim3_1_.gif

RM[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorta like if I leave my keys in my car then it is my fault that my car is stolen from my driveway.

Your logic is infantile.

04-14-2002, 08:53 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your logic is infantile.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well where is your logic OB? Whine?

If you don't "gate" your email, who is the infant who doesn't defend himself because he doesn't know any better?

Your logic is non-existant!

Use "throw accounts" like web based emails to buffer or "gate" exposure on the net is the only step you can take in response. Whining about a mechanically harvestable address is truly infantile because even a machine understands it!!!

RM

IK4VYX
04-14-2002, 08:56 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
BTW, the reason I use the alias jxs2151
is so scum like you cannot send me more
garbage in my inbox. #I am really surprised
that QRZ.com hasn't terminated your account
since they know you scour their site and spam hams. #
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Mr. jxs2151:
1)
I had not any qrz.com account before having to
create one yesterday to defend myself from your
hard words.

2)
There has never been any kind of relationship
among me and QRZ people, proved by this:
If you search for the name of my software on
QRZ site you will find 0 matches

3)
you still did not honour this round table
with your callsign and name

4)
take it easy breath deeply and smile:
being so angry shortens your life http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As you see I kept my word, your heavy stone did not
hit me ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Best Regards

N2RJ
04-15-2002, 02:25 PM
I've disabled my arrl.net address. #Spam bots don't just crawl pages for addresses anymore. #With the arrl.net address they go sequentially in alphabetical order. #How I discovered this is that I was looking at all the other recipients of one piece of spam and I saw that the recipients were all in alphabetical order. #Holy cow! #The minute I turned off my arrl.net address my mailbox was as clean as a whistle.

I also don't support spammers by not buying any of their products. #This goes for the snail mail variety of spam as well. #It's a small effort on my part, but I figure one day people are going to take note and get the message and stop spamming me!

MAB2003
04-15-2002, 07:21 PM
who doesn't hate spam

kg6ktz

jxs2151
04-15-2002, 11:00 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 14 2002,22:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
BTW, the reason I use the alias jxs2151
is so scum like you cannot send me more
garbage in my inbox. #I am really surprised
that QRZ.com hasn't terminated your account
since they know you scour their site and spam hams. #
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Mr. jxs2151:
1)
I had not any qrz.com account before having to
create one yesterday to defend myself from your
hard words.

2)
There has never been any kind of relationship
among me and QRZ people, proved by this:
If you search for the name of my software on
QRZ site you will find 0 matches

3)
you still did not honour this round table
with your callsign and name

4)
take it easy breath deeply and smile:
being so angry shortens your life http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As you see I kept my word, your heavy stone did not
hit me ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Best Regards[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Where do you get the idea that I must use my callsign on these boards? In case you haven't noticed, Qrz.com sets the rules here and not you.

Your attempts to have me reveal my callsign are pathetic and do nothing to answer my assertion that you are a scum spammer. Your response to that charge by questioning my willingness to share my callsign shows that you are unwilling to face the facts about your spamming practices.

I do not reveal my callsign because people of your ilk have destroyed the trust necessary to maintain healthy public forums. You feel that your need to profit from your software is more important than that trust, I disagree and therein lies our disagreement.

BTW, I am as calm as can be, I sleep well at night knowing that I do not have to utilize the same practices as pornographers to make a living.

I would say that if you have to come on a public forum to defend your practices you should probably take a good, hard look at what you are doing and reconsider your actions. Your spamming, no matter how good your intentions, is wrong.

jxs2151
04-16-2002, 01:58 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Radiomercenary @ April 14 2002,22:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your logic is infantile.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well where is your logic OB? Whine?

If you don't "gate" your email, who is the infant who doesn't defend himself because he doesn't know any better?

Your logic is non-existant!

Use "throw accounts" like web based emails to buffer or "gate" exposure on the net is the only step you can take in response. Whining about a mechanically harvestable address is truly infantile because even a machine understands it!!!

RM[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Mr. Mercenary, I have been using the Internet since before you probably heard of it. Way back in 1993 things were a little different for a couple of reasons. It was literally a 'leave your door unlocked' neighborhood. People like the author of DXTelnet changed all that and placing the blame on the victim does not make it alright.

Saying that I don't know any better presumes that I do not have the knowledge to filter and combat spam. Bad presumption on your part. I am well aware of the concepts of 'throw away' accounts and other blocking mechanisms. However, these are of no use to one if they actually wish to receive email from users of a site like qrz.com and others. Your methods do not allow any email to reach you and this is not suitable. Perhaps you are anti-social to the point where you wish to isolate yourself from others but I am not.

Also, a lesson in discourse- One who disagrees with you is not whining. Your attempts to paint me in that light are pathetic and are more appropriate on the AOL boards.

Regards,
Jeff

IK4VYX
04-16-2002, 11:50 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Where do you get the idea that I must use my callsign
on these boards? In case you haven't noticed,
Qrz.com sets the rules here and not you.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I must say that in this case (fortunately)
some wise people makes the rules...
Having to say who you are or not, depends
on the weight of the statements that come
from your mouth; in this case, a correct person,
accusing directly and making names (like you did),
should have included his identity.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
you do nothing to answer my assertion
that you are a scum spammer.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I thought I had already answered this point in my first
message in this thread.
I will try answering again shortly and in other words:
I know what real spam means cause I bear it daily.
I can't be defined a spammer, because I intentionally
miss many of the spammers' important "requirements".
So you say I am a scum spammer, like pornographers
I answer you "Sorry to disappoint you but you are
absolutely in the wrong direction!"
I would be glad to explain my position and answer
your statements more in detail, privately.
But I need your permission, otherwise if sent you
an email then you could say:
"You see, just got an unsolicited mail from you, therefore
you are a spammmer" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Your attempts to have me reveal my callsign are
pathetic
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, No... I was asking it for yourself, more than for me.
It would someway have added value to your statements,
otherwise of no worth.
I know your callsign, but that's not hard to guess:
just enter jxs2151 on Google and bingo, there I have
your callsign http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Guys, you see how hard it is to be anonymous on the net, and this someway helps spammers http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif.
Well, now you could tell all us who you are but it's
too late http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
If you prefer not say who you are, it may mean nothing
but it may also mean a lot, and it does to me.
I have an opinion about all this, but I keep it for me
and I will let the others judge and build up their
opinion about you, without being influenced by mine.
Let me add this: I am respecting you as person
but I don't feel respected by you, at all.
If you don't respect others, then YOU ARE THE SPAMMER!.
Discussions with no reciprocal respect bring to nowhere;
moreover ping-pongs are meaningless in a forum,
so I would stop this, if you agree, and switch it
to private before the sysop pulls our ears.

That's why I would like now to close this message
with some more useful spam-relevant considerations.

I have read this thread carefully and found some
interesting thoughts and hints that may be helpful
in fighting spam.
I will say something now, someway more integralistic
than anybody's else statement in this thread.

Spam emails should NEVER even be open or read.
They should be deleted on the fly
(you can easily guess a spam email from it's title
or sender)
If you open or read any spam email then you someway
play the game of spammers.
Spammers are all but fool.
Some HTML spam emails may contain hidden
references that bring your PC to a connection
to their sites (a sort of hidden hit counter).
This means that they can even trace you and see
how many persons (sometimes who) have read their emails!
If they counted 0 accesses over 1000 emails,
they would probably stop it, cause useless.
If only one fellow buys their products they will
keep spamming because sending emails costs (them) almost
zero.

Final consideration:
What is spam and what is not?
What is more spam than other?

When you are looking at a nice movie on TV and they
break it suddenly for minutes with junk advertising,
isn't that someway spam?
At least against the story of that movie...
or at least against your will.

Did you request that advertising in that
particular moment of the movie?
But we no longer fight this... only a crazy would.
You could switch off the TV the same as you hit
the delete button... easier to say than to do,
isn't it?

Moreover we prefer to buy advertised products,
better than others, and we finance advertising,
when buying.
And this loop makes the companies more and more
aggressive with their commercial strategies...
simply because their strategies work!
They study ancestral human behaviours to shock
us better with flashes and sounds...
and we bite, day after day, without being aware.

How it will go with email spam, mostly depends
on governements' decisions.
If nobody does anything important, we will
slowly agree to tolerate it (as we do with TV)
and maybe, who knows, in a few years many will buy
viagra online because it costs less, nobody sees
them and they were told to do so via email...

Sorry to say, but spam is everywhere and email spam
is even softer than other spam faces.
BTW if you don't kill something before it grows too much,
you will probably have to bear it forever.

Mr. jxs2151,
Please be sincere: how many spam emails do you
receive daily?
In today's world, if you leave your door open
you can't complain then if someone opens it.
And you're very lucky if the one who first opens it
has good intentions.
You should thank him if he teaches you how to
keep your door closed to those that have bad
intentions.

Best (((73))) de Fab (IK4VYX)

jxs2151
04-16-2002, 01:19 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 16 2002,13:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Last question Fab:

Do you or do you not scour QRZ.com and/or eham.net for email addresses and then send email to those addresses unsolicited?

IK4VYX
04-16-2002, 04:06 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Last question Fab:

Do you or do you not scour QRZ.com and/or eham.net
for email addresses and then send email to those
addresses unsolicited?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Dear Jeff,

Here is what I really did, in a few words:
I told my users:
"Hey Guys if you really like my software and its
services let's try to extend it to other DXers
to make it even more interesting and valuable.
Please email me a list of all your ham friends that you
think could be interested in this".
Collected many emails, filtered them for
dupes and for those who already were my users
with a sofware made by me, then sorted emails
into chunks of 20 emails comma separated
and started sending 2 chunks a day (40 emails)
with an info message (see below).
Used the BCC field to hide any email to any reader.
So far got positive feedback from many hams who found
it very interesting and useful.
One thing to say is that unlike many sharewares
my software is fully functional and has no expiration
date in its evaluation.
I mean: you can evaluate it for years without having
to register.

Now that I answered your question, I do hope you
will answer mine: how many unsolicited emails
did you receive from me in your lifetime?
I bet ONE.
Do you have any idea of how many unsolicited emails
you would have received so far from a SPAMMER?
Would you like to touch it with your hands?
Just ask me: next spams I receive I would just hit
the unsubscribe links and fill their boxes with YOUR
email ... then bingo: you would really see what
the word SPAM means.
Don't worry: of course I will not do it!!!

This because I'm not the kind of person you think I am.
But you still in time to change your mind about me
and I really hope you will http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Now if anybody would like to know more about
the object of the discussion between
me and Jeff, just visit:

http://209.202.196.70/dxhunter0/cqdx.htm

(note: I've put the hardcoded IP to avoid DNS problems)

Jeff, NA4M, Phil told me that eHam reviews can be
changed... up to you: should you change your mind,
maybe not about me, but at least about my work.
Please be honest: is it really junk as you state?
So are all my users fool???

Ciao everybody
Stay UnSpammed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Fab (IK4VYX)

tomahawk1
04-16-2002, 04:21 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know your callsign, but that's not hard to guess:
just enter jxs2151 on Google and bingo, there I have
your callsign [http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif]
Guys, you see how hard it is to be anonymous on the net[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

It is not hard to be anonymous on the internet. See if yiou can get a callsign or any information on tomahawk1 on google. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

IK4VYX
04-16-2002, 04:50 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tomahawk1 @ April 16 2002,09:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is not hard to be anonymous on the internet. See if yiou can get a callsign or any information on tomahawk1 on google. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
is/was your email ad thomahawk1 (at) usa.net ?
Does the word "markoradio" tell you anything?
Was Tomahawk your CB nick?
Ciao
Fab (IK4VYX)

jxs2151
04-16-2002, 08:12 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 16 2002,18:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Last question Fab:

Do you or do you not scour QRZ.com and/or eham.net
for email addresses and then send email to those
addresses unsolicited? #
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Dear Jeff,

Here is what I really did, in a few words:
I told my users:
"Hey Guys if you really like my software and its
services let's try to extend it to other DXers
to make it even more interesting and valuable.
Please email me a list of all your ham friends that you
think could be interested in this".


Used the BCC field to hide any email to any reader.
So far got positive feedback from many hams who found
it very interesting and useful.


One thing to say is that unlike many sharewares
my software is fully functional and has no expiration
date in its evaluation.
I mean: you can evaluate it for years without having
to register.

Now that I answered your question, I do hope you
will answer mine: how many unsolicited emails
did you receive from me in your lifetime?
I bet ONE.
Do you have any idea of how many unsolicited emails
you would have received so far from a SPAMMER?
Would you like to touch it with your hands?
Just ask me: next spams I receive I would just hit
the unsubscribe links and fill their boxes with YOUR
email ... then bingo: you would really see what
the word SPAM means.
Don't worry: of course I will not do it!!!

This because I'm not the kind of person you think I am.
But you still in time to change your mind about me
and I really hope you will http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Now if anybody would like to know more about
the object of the discussion between
me and Jeff, just visit:

http://209.202.196.70/dxhunter0/cqdx.htm

(note: I've put the hardcoded IP to avoid DNS problems)

Jeff, NA4M, Phil told me that eHam reviews can be
changed... up to you: should you change your mind,
maybe not about me, but at least about my work.
Please be honest: is it really junk as you state?
So are all my users fool???

Ciao everybody
Stay UnSpammed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Fab (IK4VYX)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So you had your friends do the dirty work. I still do not believe that someone is not scouring these sites for e-mails for you. Quite simply, I do not believe you.

Who cares if some found your software useful? Your idea that any means justify what you believe to be a useful end is a destructive concept and has already had a negative effect. Do you believe that the good you feel comes from having people spot DX is more important than the fact that your actions force others to hide their addresses on QRZ, therefore limiting communications with others? If this is your belief, you are mistaken. If this is not your belief then you should cease your spamming.


How many emails I received from you is not the issue. I have received only a single email from most porn spammers as well. Does this make you equal to them? Are you less of a spammer if you do not repeat your efforts? Lycos must have agreed with me that your actions constitute spamming because they closed your account there at my request. Sounds like a unbiased third party thinks you are a spammer and shut down your account when you violated their TOS, which upon your supposed honor you agreed to.

If I do notice an increase in my spam levels that indicates you have done what you threatened to do I will lobby my ISP to block all mail from your ISP. Imagine not being able to email Mindspring. Your actions provide all of the proof I need. Your actions constitute spamming by all ISP's that I know of. Your actions violate the Terms of Service that you agree to. No matter how you try to rationalize or justify your actions, by definitions used by ISP's you are spamming and violating TOS.

I know exactly what kind of person you are. Your actions speak so much louder about you than your words. Nothing you say speaks more about you than the fact that you Spam.

I happen to be in the software industry and have implemented software on every platform you can imagine. Yes, your software is junk.

IK4VYX
04-16-2002, 09:25 PM
In reply to Mr jxs2151 (Jeff)

Oh Man, are you married?
If so, how does that Saint bear you?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Bye bye
Fab (IK4VYX)

jxs2151
04-16-2002, 10:15 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 16 2002,23:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In reply to Mr jxs2151 (Jeff)

Oh Man, are you married?
If so, how does that Saint bear you?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Bye bye
Fab (IK4VYX)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was thinking the same thing about you. A rather weak response was anticipated once you were faced with the reality of your actions though.

IK4VYX
04-16-2002, 11:03 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I was thinking the same thing about you.
A rather weak response was anticipated once
you were faced with the reality of your actions though.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

HeHe
Jeff, you don't know me.
Writing takes time.
I am married with Gabriella and have a nice little
Daughter (Martina) 2 years old next month.
Yes, they bear me a lot http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I must write in other than my natural langauge
so it takes even longer.
Here is my final reply to all your points

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
So you had your friends do the dirty work.
I still do not believe that someone is not
scouring these sites for e-mails for you.
Quite simply, I do not believe you.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

They simply sent me their outlook ham folders
You must be in one of them.
Then I had to do the dirty work to filter and
sort all.
I will look for the callsign of the user who
sent me your email then will contact him and
ask for permission to tell you his name.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Do you believe that the good you feel comes from
having people spot DX is more important than the
fact that your actions force others to hide their
addresses on QRZ, therefore limiting communications
with others?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


This is the point Jeff.
First, my email is communication from ham to ham
not spam.
Second, as a good rule, you have to scramble
your email on any site, not only on QRZ,
otherwise you're subject to spam (the real one).
Did you read the articles in this thread?
Now if a spammer scanning web sites for mindspring
found your email (it is well visible), your spam
level would increase and you can't think that
I am guilty for the spam you receive:
they take your address from you, not from me.
I warmly suggest that you scramble any email address
you have placed on any site, otherwise I'm afraid
I will have to bear your complaints again in the
future.
Do you understand the concept?


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
How many emails I received from you is not the issue.
I have received only a single email from most porn spammers
as well.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

With the "little exception" that porn spammers
like other spammers, talk each other;
there are hundreds, so you get
hundreds but different emails! That's spam!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Lycos must have agreed with me that your actions
constitute spamming because they closed your account
there at my request.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

My LYCOS account is still there; it has been down
for one week because LYCOS.IT was under
construction, so this might have brought you
to the wrong conclusion (as usual).
Your complaints had no effects; sorry for you,
but glad to know that some wise people exist.
You were lucky that they did not close it.
If they had done, because of you, this would be
a really good temptation for a revenge.
Also, my patience has a limit, like everything
in this world: please do not trespass it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
If I do notice an increase in my spam levels
that indicates you have done what you threatened
to do I will lobby my ISP to block all mail
from your ISP
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

As I said before, this will not happen
if you don't tempt me too much.
In any case you said a very silly thing.
No ISPs would block traffic from another ISP
only because you've asked them... this is
simply ridiculous http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
You are probably on the internet since 1993
but you do not sound like an internet expert...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I happen to be in the software industry and have
implemented software on every platform you can imagine.
Yes, your software is junk
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And it took you more than 6 months to come to this
decision: man, you slow!
Also, you do not sound like a software expert...
Sorry.

Take Care, God Bless

Fab (IK4VYX)

jxs2151
04-17-2002, 03:08 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 17 2002,01http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It seems as if we have a basic disagreement about what SPAM is. #You seem to believe that if you are a nice guy, sending email once to people who share your interests that you are not spamming. #I, on the other hand, feel that receiving *any* email that I did not ask for consttitues spamming. #It seems as if Tripod, where you store your web page agrees with me.

From Tripod.com (Lycos):

What is SPAM?


Answer
#SPAM is defined as Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) or Unsolicited Bulk Email (UBE). SPAM is any email you receive that you did not request. #


Read the part about *any email you did not request*.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
They simply sent me their outlook ham folders
You must be in one of them.
Then I had to do the dirty work to filter and
sort all.
I will look for the callsign of the user who
sent me your email then will contact him and
ask for permission to tell you his name. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Then one of your stooges must scour eham or qrz. #Within hours of my callsign change showing up on those two pages, I received my second spam from you. #It's looking pretty guilty on your part. #Lying is not a good way to gain credibility.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Do you understand the concept?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I well understand the fact that you feel that whatever your goal is overrides the bad karma you create. #Your actions limit communications potential by forcing hams to remove their email addresses from sites like this. #You know this but your profit motive is more important. #Your greed blinds you to the results of your spamming actions.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

my email is communication from ham to ham
not spam.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Again, here is how your provider defines spam:

What is SPAM?


Answer
#SPAM is defined as Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) or Unsolicited Bulk Email (UBE). SPAM is any email you receive that you did not request. #

Can you continue to deny that you are a spammer? #Your own provider says that you are a spammer. #Every definition of spamming points to what you do. #You are a spammer along with the porn spammers. #You can rationalize it all you like but the simple fact remains- your actions constitue spamming.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
With the "little exception" that porn spammers
like other spammers, talk each other;
there are hundreds, so you get
hundreds but different emails! That's spam![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So the only way that you can differentiate yourself from a porn spammer is that they "talk to each other"? #That is so weak. #I guess if it makes you feel better about yourself then whatever. #I could not sleep well at night knowing that the only difference between myself and a pornographer is that they talk to each other.



</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Also, my patience has a limit, like everything
in this world: please do not trespass it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I have no problems getting into a fight with someone who is in violation of TOS. #The person who is wrong *always* loses these kinds of fights.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
No ISPs would block traffic from another ISP
only because you've asked them... this is
simply ridiculous [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I've seen it happen. #Look up the terms "death sentence".



</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

And it took you more than 6 months to come to this
decision: man, you slow![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

At first I couldn't believe that you were actually charging money for the junk so I set it aside for a while to look at it another day. #Months later, it was still a POS.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, you do not sound like a software expert...
Sorry.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

If I wasn't I would have to settle for writing software.

04-17-2002, 05:00 PM
I oce had an e-mail account that I had not checked for a week and had EXACTLY 237 spams... I had one that said "Anthony, if you get this message you must call me now I have important information for you"
-Cleo...


What the H*ll? I said I also got 20 or so different credit card offers one from the "New Visa Blue plated" thing-a-mu-jig that is supposed to help to stop "Thiefs and Hackers" from getting your password... what does that mean??? I'm only 13

THEN I GET A FREAKIN' JAPENESE PORN E-MAIL, WRITTEN IN JAPENESE!!!! seriously c'mon now!!! I deleted like 15 before I changed the password to somthing I had forgotten and vowed never to use that e-mail account again... well just before I wrote this down I decided to dig up that password and check the account...

They erased ALL the spams (low on space) and there in its spot was 15 BRAND NEW that day spams!!! guys I'm going to tell you that e-mail adrress and hope you don't fall for there FREE E-mail scam! it wasYourOnlyFriend@37.com remember DO NOT USE 37 DOT COM!!!

IK4VYX
04-17-2002, 07:48 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Months later, it was still a POS
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Jeff, congrats for your nice vocabulary and education.
I answer your prophanity with a link:

http://209.202.196.70/dxhunter0/comments.htm

There you find the TRUE comments of my users.
Would you like me to bring them here to confirm?

But now I have a very bad new for you Jeff.
Sit down and relax cause this time I will
beat you very hard http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

This is a message header posted by Jeff on a news group
on January

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
From: jxs2151@mindspring.com
Newsgroups: alt.education.research
Subject: Visual learning of a primarily auditory task
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 01:42http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <a34um2$kkq$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 42.20.40.fb
X-Server-Date: 29 Jan 2002 01:42:26 GMT
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


This is a spam message header posted two weeks ago
by "someone" on a newsgroup using my email both in
the from field and in the body of message;
the clear intention of the sender is to show my email
address in plain text so that I get spammed in the
future, or worse, to have the members of the
newsgroup get angry with me.
I must say I received some complaints from newsgroup
users saying "do your tests somewhere else"...
That's why I know of that message but there might be others...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
From: dxtelnet@lycos.it
Newsgroups: alt.food.wine
Subject: test
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:20:25 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <a85rq0$um1$4@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 42.20.40.68
X-Server-Date: 31 Mar 2002 02:20:48 GMT
X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01


dxtelnet@lycos.it
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Any of you can check the above original headers by clicking
the following links:

http://groups.google.com/groups?....=gplain (http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a34um2%24kkq%241%40slb7.atl.mindspring .net&output=gplain)

http://groups.google.com/groups?....=gplain (http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a85rq0%24um1%244%40slb6.atl.mindspring .net&output=gplain)

Do you know what this means to me Jeff?
I can't have posted any message using mindspring
cause I have no mindspring account or access, of course.
I would never post such a message with my email
in the body.
So it was not me but somebody else, somebody
with a mindspring account that is upset with me.
I know one...
By looking at the above headers and at the headers
of other messages posted by you and by other
mindspring users I came to a conclusion.

If I am right, this time you will pay for your actions.
I will copy the header of the above message
(the spam one) and send it to abuse@mindspring.com
asking them to verify if sender was jxs2151
They will investigate and probably confirm my
suspicions; I bet this is a TOS violation.
But before doing this, I offer you a last chance:
if you are the author of that message just
admit it and send me your formal apologies
(here or in private, if you prefer: that will do).
After this, I will evaluate your position and decide.

Also, I blame you for the "POS" word you wrote
which is prophanity and should not be used by a
serious person in a serious forum like this.

SHAME ON YOU!!!

With this email I would like indeed to close the loop.
Thanks all for patience and attention.

I think this thread can teach a lot to all of us.
On the internet (better say in life?) you may never
know who is good and who is bad.
But if you pay attention and use your brain, sometimes
it is not impossible to guess it.

Best Regards

Fab (IK4VYX)

ve3cuz
04-18-2002, 12:37 AM
Greetings, fellows, from the great white north..(today the great HOT north.. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif )

Another method I have discovered, and only works if your email service/reader supports looking in the CC: and BCC: fields. I used to use this feature on operamail.com till they changed to another service bureau. If your email prog can interrogate these fields, you can do something like this:

if to: <> me and (cc: = me or bcc: = me) then delete.

Nine times out of ten, the spammers will use a bogus address and use cc or blind cc to send you their crap.
With one or two others filters, already mentioned, I have been able to reduce spam by about 99% !! Pretty cool, I think. This allows legit emails to get thru, cuz most friendly people will use mailto: to send you one.
One proviso,, you may have to use something to exclude this rule if you belong to a mailing list. Chances are, they use bcc: to send you legit emails.

Happy spam hunting http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73 de VE3CUZ

jxs2151
04-18-2002, 01:03 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 17 2002,21:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
After this, I will evaluate your position and decide.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

If you feel confident that you are correct then I suggest that you do whatever you feel you need to do. I have, however, warned my ISP days ago to expect to receive some rantings from you, so they are aware. The contents of your original spam were included as well as my requests for you to cease spamming me.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Also, I blame you for the "POS" word you wrote
which is prophanity and should not be used by a
serious person in a serious forum like this.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Again, if you feel strongly enough that I have violated the TOS with QRZ by posting acronyms then by all means, contact them. Your credibility can't go much lower. BTW, POS is a commonly used acronym in the software industry to describe.....well, you know.


Just think, all of this because you insist on sending spam to people who don't want it.

04-18-2002, 04:42 AM
Wow, http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif good volleys from both Jeff and Fab. I was rolling on the floor http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif with some of the replies.

Jeff, I think Fab got you good on the TOS thing. Judging by the voracity of your responses I think you did that dirty deed. I do not think that you are a bad person but one who is frustrated with this issue. Those of us who are "do gooders" (myself included) often cross the line when battle what we perceived to be evil. It is known as "the end justify the means" syndrome. If and only if you did what Fab suggested then you need to come clean with it. We the "do gooders" would unsterstand and support you. After all, you want the spammer to taste his own medicine.

Fab, I agreed with Jeff on the point of you being a "Spammer". In my opinion a "spammer " is one who sends unsolicited e-mail. On the other hand you do not fit the profile of the typical "spammer" discussed here in this thread. We are talking about spammers who hound his/her victims with messages after messages.

I do like your style in handling Jeff in this thread. Your calm, cool ,and collective method of dealing with Jeff is commended. This added more credibility to your argument. I particularly like that "death blow" (the POS thing) you dealt Jeff at the end. The timing is excellent and it is a fatal one

Thank you both for this evening entertainment. I learned a lot from your exchanges. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73 to you both de KC6VLG

IK4VYX
04-18-2002, 04:56 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I have, however, warned my ISP days ago to expect
to receive some rantings from you, so they are aware. #
The contents of your original spam were included as well as my requests for you to cease spamming me. #
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You did not answer my question:
did you post that message on that newsgroup with my email?
YES/NO
If answer is YES, I am satisfied.
If answer is NO, I will go further and ask your provider.
If the provider does not answer I have other ideas.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
BTW, POS is a commonly used acronym in the software
industry to describe.....well, you know.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Now I understand the kind of industry you work for
And I confirm you must be an expert in that field.
I had never heard such an "advanced" terminology,
thanks for teaching me something raelly useful.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Read the part about *any email you did not request*.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

This is a too simple definition which covers most cases
but not the one we are discussing here.
Consider this:
if you put your callsign well visible on a ham web site
it means that you welcome other ham's contacts
otherwise why should you put it there?
Is it for your friends?
Your friends already know about your email.
Well so it is for other hams, I guess.
From your definition, if another ham contacts you
because he reads your email on a ham web site
that is spam... should he phone you first
to ask your permission?
Your permission is implicit because nowhere
you specify that you don't wish to be contacted
by other hams.
Otherwise you would have to remove your address
from any ham web site.

As a ham I contacted other hams to share
DX related info in a very polite and non
intrusive way, with a one time email.
Of course I did reply any follow up, doubts and
requests; spammers never did.
I said who I am in my info (unlike you),
spammers never did.
I am reachable by anyone who has received
my email; spammers never are.

In the end of my info I mention about my software but
the main subject of my info is a free resource
created by hams for hams.
A free resource whose value depends on the number
of users that join it.
Then my software is just one of the tools
(the best, for a DXer's needs, as they say)
to connect to that resource, and it can be registered
or used for free, as you did for months
(I saw you logging in many times and I could tell
you how many times cause the sysop keeps a log)
The fact that I got a lot of positive feedback
and just one complaint (yours) proves that
mine is not spam because spam is never welcome
by anybody.

Please answer my YES/NO question above as
I answered all your questions before.

Best Regards

Fab (IK4VYX)

IK4VYX
04-18-2002, 05:45 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (john english @ April 17 2002,21:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Thank you both for this evening entertainment. I learned a lot from your exchanges. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73 to you both de KC6VLG
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Thank you for watching John.
Must be better than TV http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Jeff has some good points but he is too angry.
That's why I like to beat him http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
After all, I would like if all this could end up with an handshake: I don't like blood http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I agree with you about the message.
He must have done it for anger.
But now I am just asking him YES/NO.
No apologies but just satisfaction of being
right with my suspicions http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ciao

Fab (IK4VYX)

IK4VYX
04-18-2002, 06:43 PM
Hi All,

After reading again and carefully all this thread,
if I want to be honest, I must admit there was
a low percentage of spam in my email activity.
This means that Jeff is not totally wrong,
but he is too narrow in applying his definition
of spam to me.
Also he is very acid, which does not help much,
in any kind of discussion.
I totally disagree when he compares me
to worst spammers, of course, and I think
I demonstrated who I really am with facts and words.
Having sent out many emails with 2 received complaints
(I must also admit that Jeff's was not the only one)
but many positive replies, the exact spam percentage
is hard to define but I'm sure it's low.
BTW I've just found the way to reduce the complaints
from 2 to 0 .

Now I would like to virtually move my right
hand towards Jeff, not to beat him http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif but just to
handshake, even if he totally disagrees with me.

And if it's OK for Jeff we could close the loop here
as I think there's not much more to say.

Jeff, I still need your YES/NO answer though.
You could provide some kinds of answers:

1) the Truth
2) the most convenient answer for you
3) the one which improves your credibility

If you think on it, I'm sure you will see that
1) 2) and 3) bring you to the same answer.

You have my word that I will never proceed
with any activity against you, anyway.
I never hated anyone in my 40 years life
(even if I must say that nobody so far had tempted
me much to hate him) and I will not try to hurt
you because it goes against my pacific nature.

On the other side, if that ng message came from you,
you are invited to immediately stop such kind
of activity against me, at least now that we
spent so many words to explain our positions each other, almost in a civil way.

I owe you some apologies as I see that for an
error you got two emails from me, instead of one.
BTW this would not give you the right
to send messages on newsgroups,
using someone's else email.

Best Regards

Fab (IK4VYX)

N2EIO
04-22-2002, 02:43 PM
My ISP started using a filtering service (Postini). It's optional and customizable for each user. I was skeptical, but now I "can't live without it". Basically all your incoming messages are screened for viruses and spam, and suspect messages are quarantined in your "message center". You can review all suspect messages by originator and subject before they ever get to your mail box. Send any you want to your mailbox and delete the rest. In my experience, it catches about 90% of the spam. It would occassionally catch a non-spam message, which you could then forward to your mailbox. The legitimate originators are added to your "acceptable" list, so there are fewer "false positives" as you go along. (I haven't had any for a while).

I mention all of this because the service is out there and it works well to solve most of the spam problem. Perhaps people could encourage their ISP's to offer this type of service. #If all of them did, it would be the end of spammers!

N2RJ
04-22-2002, 05:29 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2EIO @ April 22 2002,10:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My ISP started using a filtering service (Postini). It's optional and customizable for each user. I was skeptical, but now I "can't live without it". Basically all your incoming messages are screened for viruses and spam, and suspect messages are quarantined in your "message center". You can review all suspect messages by originator and subject before they ever get to your mail box. Send any you want to your mailbox and delete the rest. In my experience, it catches about 90% of the spam. It would occassionally catch a non-spam message, which you could then forward to your mailbox. The legitimate originators are added to your "acceptable" list, so there are fewer "false positives" as you go along. (I haven't had any for a while).

I mention all of this because the service is out there and it works well to solve most of the spam problem. Perhaps people could encourage their ISP's to offer this type of service. #If all of them did, it would be the end of spammers![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
For free webmail users, Yahoo! Mail provides a convenient "bulk mail" folder that automatically moves spam there. It is VERY effective. The only thing though is that it began moving my ARRL mailings there http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . But I quickly corrected that.

N2RJ
04-23-2002, 12:51 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N8PCA @ April 22 2002,17:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I repeatedly tried to change my e~mail address on Yahoo. I could not seem to do it. (I am still a bit of a newbie at comp's) The "staff" at Yahoo was no help. I felt they were deliberitly dodging me. So, all I did was go into my machine and delete every stinking thing with "Yahooligan" on it. I probably have a thousand spam's in there by now. My big mistake was puting my MSN community on three or four search engines. After that it was all down hill. A lesson learned. No matter how many times I would block one or two specific spammers, they would come back at me again by using another address or IP. Yahoo stinks. Spammers stink!! 73' N8PCA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't think so. Have you tried Yahoo! recently? They have a new feature called a "bulk mail" folder. They have a known "blacklist" of spammers and will direct spam to that folder.

As for changing email addresses, why don't you just kill the old one and sign up for a new one?

jtrolinger
05-01-2002, 11:57 PM
The only way to stop junk mail is to not have an address.

KD5NRH
05-03-2002, 05:15 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IK4VYX @ April 16 2002,16:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First, my email is communication from ham to ham
not spam.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Let me put this in really simple terms for you: unsolicited commercial email is, by definition, spam.

People didn't ask you to email them, so it was unsolicited. You are selling something, so it is commercial. You are a spammer.

IK4VYX
05-05-2002, 07:36 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5NRH @ May 03 2002,10:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are selling something, so it is commercial. #You are a spammer.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I do not agree, Joe.
I'll try to explain my modest point of view
With my email I'm not selling anything.
The node I refer to in my email has totally
free access, it is a good resource and there's no
connection between me and the people who created
that node.
The tool I suggest to access that node can be used
forever without registering it.
This means that anybody can use it lifetime and never
contact me.
So the "commercial" word drops, together with
the word "spammer".
I may agree with you on the "unsolicited" word
but there's something important to say, in this case:
if an ham contacts another ham whose email address
is published on an ham web site, to share ham relevant,
non commercial info, with a one time email, then
there's no violation.
Otherwise if an ham does not wish to receive an
"unsolicited" email from another ham
he should avoid publishing his email address on a
ham site, for a very simple reason:
how could any other ham contact him with an email
not "unsolicited" by definition?

Best Regards

Fab (IK4VYX)

AE4TM
12-19-2002, 10:44 PM
SPAM Statistics (http://www.raingod.com/angus/Computing/Internet/Spam/Statistics/)

This is becoming an increasingly important topic. As the ecomony becomes slower, people seem to sit around home thinking of new ways of SPAMMING us. Over time, more and more IP addresses will get blocked causing difficulty at sending useful emails.

Although I get less than 100 spams a day, I have been getting 3 copies of an unsolicited Chinese newspaper a day that I can neither read nor unsubscribe. I have sent numerous complaints to the newspaper, the Federal Government, and my ISP because the email's contain Chinese characters that are crashing my hospital computers where I work. So far no one has helped to block this site because it is considered a non-commercial newspaper read by many US citizens who speak Chinese.

Does the fact that it is non-commercial mean it is not SPAM? It is just a matter of time before someone somewhere suffers a computer crash leading to the death of a hospital patient because we are entering a new paperless era where hospital orders are being entered into computers.

In the meantime, I was forced to change my email address out of necessity. I also switched my operating system to LINUX because there is far less spying on Linux browsers than Windows browsers. The latter being one of the reasons for this recent surge in SPAMMING.