The Daily Worker!!

[K6UEY]

With all the ANTI-AMERICAN comments on this board I thought it would be fitting to provide a one stop point. That way Bin Laden and all of his Loyal followers would not have to hunt for their posted support.

When the truth shows it's ugly head and the enemies of the US are discouraged,they can always turn to QRZ and find words of encourgement from the loser gallery.

What ever happened to the proud American who would give the ultimate sacrafice to defend his country,apparently he is on the battlefield doing that, so the Lily Livered Socialist can set home on their assets at the computer encouraging the other side.

The trading of Quality for Quantity is once again proved to be a FOOLS BARGAIN!!
Amateur Radio has become a corp of DISGUSTING LOSERS!!! # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[al2i]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I'm sorry you feel that way OM.

73,
Dave/al2i

[w5klb]

Wow.

If you feel this way, why continue to associate with us and why are you posting with this?

Just to make myself a little more clear, I agree with your sentiments on the war in Iraq. But, OM, as much I respect your political feelings on this, it doesn't make ANYONE here a "bunch of losers" just because we each hold different opinions. Do I think the liberals have it wrong? You betcha! But they are entitled. That's why you served in the Air Force, and I served in the Navy to ensure they could have a difference of opinion.

I just wish I had your knowledge about the ARS. I know that you feel the ARS is going to "hell in a hand basket" because of the dumming down of the test. I would agree with that, but I would have posted it a little differently. You won't "win over enemies" and "influeance people" with it, but this is, afterall, the internet.

I'm glad you're back "grumpy". #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

"You have a good day. I know I will" - UEY

[W2ILP]

This thread used the term "Daily Worker".

The "Daily Worker" was (and I dunno if it still is) a Communist Party newspaper.

Some time in the 1950s, when I first became a ham, a Ham friend showed me a copy of a "Daily Worker" newspaper.

It had a big article about Ham Radio and a big picture of a USSR QSL card. The card showed a picture of Popov, "The Inventor of Radio". The article went on to say that the USSR QSL bureau gets far more mail than the Voice of America, which beams high power broadcasts to the USSR. We will never know if this was really true because all mail to the USSR was probably subject to being censored. There were at that time no QTHs for Soviet hams in the call books...just the USSR QSL "bureau"...Box 88, Moscow.

Hope I'm not taking this too far off topic..."The Daily Worker" title reminded me about this.

w2ilp (Ivan Liked Popov?)

[K6UEY]

W5KLB,
No GARY,it is not ARS that bothers me,what has happened to ARS is a foregone conclusion,it is obvious to any intelligent observer,but what sticks in my craw is the way the LOSERS are aiding and abetting the enemy of this great country.

Yes we, unlike most young people served our country,and we did it proudly,but that doesn't give license to some ignorant uninformed Socialist loser to encourage the killing of those who are defending this country now.


They sit on their ignorant Assets,posting on an International Forum running down the country and it's leaders,encouraging those who want to see us all dead,with out the slightest thought of what their ignorance is costing in the lives of those who are willing to stand up for the US.

Yes the primary interest of most of the newbies in Amateur radio have little interest if any in Radio Communications,as most of us did. All they care about is meeting others and impressing them as to their social skills,well they should keep their coffee klatch on a private basis and not announce to the world what little they care about the future of this country.

BY GOD we are at WAR,with and enemy that has only one thought in mind,the dissolution and demise of the people of the United States and allof the free world,they will and have gone to any means to accomplish that goal,and to encourage them, whether through ignorance or intent is not in the best interest of the people of the United States.

Yes YOU have a GOOD day also, I have had better!!

[w5klb]

Don't mince words with us Orv, tell us how you REALLY feel. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w0aew]

Oh oh. Someone's off his meds!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[K8YS]

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ June 20 2005,07:23)]Oh oh. Someone's off his meds!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
personal attack time?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[W5MJL]

Hey Orv. #I've been wondering where you've been.

One thing I will totally agree with Orv. #If I came to this board for the first time this week, I would actually think that amateur radio operators were the least patriotic group in the US. #The sad part of that is I know the opposite is true.

We lost Vietnam because the media depicted the war on television in a bad light every single night. #Our enemies knew it was just a matter of time before we would have unrest.

Osama has mentioned many times that Americans don't have what it takes to remain in any conflict. #He also felt we would do nothing after the 9/11 attacks. #He would be so proud if he were to read some of the posts on this board.

[wd5kca]

This thread has a lot of potential.

[KA8NCR]

/*

Note: Edited 06-2005-20 21:34:00 z

Apparently, no one gets the idea that the below is SARCASM. Here's how it works; if you do not agree with dissenting opinions or free thinking individuals, you tear off one of these QRZ OO reports and send it to them...get it?? Okay, maybe not. 73 and good luck in the contest

*/






I think the comments are right on target. If you do not agree with what this country does or what the political leaders say, you need to pack up and leave immediately. But this being the home of the free and land of the brave, dissenters should be given at least one opportunity to correct their inappropriate behavior.

To start, on QRZ I propose the following checklist be posted and the appropriate boxes checked and given to those socialist dissenters.

Below is a sample.


If you do not agree with

[ ] Me
[ ] Us
[ ] Bush
[ ] Cheney
[ ] Any Large Corporate Donor
[ ] The Republican Party
[ ] Carl Rove
[ ] The QRZ.com Angry White Guy Cabal

Then You Must Be A

[ ] Terrorist
[ ] Socialist
[ ] Liberal
[ ] Democrat
[ ] CB'er
[ ] NCI Charter Member
[ ] ARRL Sock Puppet

Please Make the Appropriate Changes By

[ ] Listening More to Rush Limbaugh
[ ] Hanging a Large Portrait of Bush in Your Living Room
[ ] Attend Church
[ ] Attend Church Daily
[ ] Tithe 50% of your Income to the Republican Party
[ ] Burn Al Franken in Effigy
[ ] Create a Screensaver of Michael Moore Engaged in beastiality



If You Fail to See it Our Way, You Will Be

[ ] Shot
[ ] Deported
[ ] Deported and Then Shot
[ ] One Word, Gitmo
[ ] One Word, Xyklon
[ ] One Word, Canada
[ ] Forced To Kiss Kerry's Wife
[ ] Your Possessions Donated to Our Cause
[ ] Ridiculed on QRZ.com as a Liberal, Socialist Nut-job
[ ] Your Rights Curtailed Since We Do Not Agree With Your Rights


Thank you, the QRZ.COM angry white-guy cabal.

[K0RGR]

Don't blame the critics.

We're just reading the news and reporting what we see.

Your man in the White House has been caught red-handed again, and the truth is slowly gaining traction. We didn't make up the Downing Street memo, and I doubt the latest line from the GOP Noise Machine that George Tenet, Lord Snow, Condy Rice, and others were all "...misinformed...".

Sadly, you are very right about its potential impact on the war. I also have friends in that war, and I fear for them, so I am not at all happy about this news - not at all. It makes it that much more likely that our few allies will abandon us, and our enemies will just grow stronger.

I hope that the Iraqi government is able to defend itself soon, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ June 20 2005,08:12)]We're just reading the news and reporting what we see.
As happened before in Vietnam, we expected something different from the local population in Iraq, and all of America's might and hope cannot make them something they are not.

73,
Dave/al2i

[ai4ep]

any one can get long winded

any one can take up half a page with some facts

about 75 - 125 folks is all that will read your words, mostly within 12 hours of posting.

you will have a larger audience on the radio


but then, YOU already knew that.

[KE7DFP]

You are so right about Nam. #The #V.C. were savvy enough to know they would not achieve a US withdrawl militarily, but by convincing Americans to do it for them. #Of course, they had a lot of help from "americans". #The director of KGB for the U.S. said latter, that the anti war movement accomplished much more for Russian interests, than all their other efforts combined. #The Communists actively involved themselfs then, as now, in the anti-war movent. #The Jihadists studied this war and know, theirs is a war pf propaganda. #iT WILL BE WON IN THE PRESS. or not at all. # Google: Ramsey Clark, the founder of International Action Committee, and the Director of (International) ANSWER. #That's right, the group that sponsored all the big #demonstrations a couple of years ago. #The ones that Susan Sarandon and what's his name fronted for. #Don't forget" Not In Our Name" #or the"Worker's World Party"either, it's all the same people and funding sources. #I guess Ramsey Clark was an LBJ cabinet member. #Their own newspapers will tell you quite openly what they are up to. They are very active in Democratic Party politics. #Just read what they say and make up your own mind.

[KE7DFP]

You have the right to dissent and speak your opinions. #No problem there. #You can write poems about fires, you can express scientific opinions about fire, you can tell us you fear fire, or fire disgusts you. But during a time of war, # you don't have the right to scream FIRE! in a crowded theater. #Especially if you actions cause the death of brave soldiers.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ June 20 2005,10:34)]You are so right about Nam. The V.C. were savvy enough to know they would not achieve a US withdrawl militarily, but by convincing Americans to do it for them. Of course, they had a lot of help from "americans". The director of KGB for the U.S. said latter, that the anti war movement accomplished much more for Russian interests, than all their other efforts combined. The Communists actively involved themselfs then, as now, in the anti-war movent. The Jihadists studied this war and know, theirs is a war pf propaganda. iT WILL BE WON IN THE PRESS. or not at all. Google: Ramsey Clark, the founder of International Action Committee, and the Director of (International) ANSWER. That's right, the group that sponsored all the big demonstrations a couple of years ago. The ones that Susan Sarandon and what's his name fronted for. Don't forget" Not In Our Name" or the"Worker's World Party"either, it's all the same people and funding sources. I guess Ramsey Clark was an LBJ cabinet member. Their own newspapers will tell you quite openly what they are up to. They are very active in Democratic Party politics. Just read what they say and make up your own mind.
The Vietnam Anti-War Movement.

Did the anti-war movement lose the war in Vietnam? If there was no anti-war movement would we have "won" the war or would we still be there fighting? If there was no anti-war movement would more or less soldiers have died in Vietnam?

I really don't understand what people are thinking here. There are references to dissent costing soldier's lives, etc.

[W5MJL]

In a very real way, yes the dissent lost the war. #Yes the dissent cost American lives.

If I know my enemy is having problems at home with support, I gain additional strength from that fact.

We knew communism was going to collapse because of the news that they were doing poorly financially. #Ronald Reagan saw this weakness, and expanded our funding for the miltary. #He played a psychological game with star wars to make the Russians think they would have to spend trillions to keep up with us. #When the Russians saw that they did not have the sources of revenue, and that the american people were behind him they gave up.


It's easier to put all of this into a one-on-one situation. #After all, individuals are just a microcosm of the world situation. #Let's say you are the individual who is happily married. #My wife knows your wife very well.

We get into a lawsuit. #It's costing both of us a fortune. #I want to win this lawsuit, but I am running out of money, and I am beginning to feel like it is not worth the fight. #I say nothing about this. #Meanwhile, your wife tells my wife, that you just spent your last nickel. #You have tapped your financial resources totally. # Don't you think I would fight on knowing this?

The dissenters are your wife in this instance. #They are letting the enemy who is beleaguered know that if they can just hang on a little longer they will win.

If I am fighting you, and you know I will never give up until I die, you know you will have to kill me to win. #We have to make all our enemies know that we have the strength and resolve to see this thru to the end. #This will not only help in this case, but will be important for our future.

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,11:28)]We have to make all our enemies know that we have the strength and resolve to see this thru to the end. This will not only help in this case, but will be important for our future.
Then we should have attacked a weaker country to show our resolve to see things through to the end. We could've gone after Bermuda. They had as much to do with 9/11 as Iraq and as many WMDs as well! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ June 20 2005,12:41)]You have the right to dissent and speak your opinions. #No problem there. #You can write poems about fires, you can express scientific opinions about fire, you can tell us you fear fire, or fire disgusts you. But during a time of war, # you don't have the right to scream FIRE! in a crowded theater. #Especially if you actions cause the death of brave soldiers.
I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately how the news covers the war feeds the frenzy. If they show everything bad it will change the polls quickly. I have talked with at least 6 people that were there for more than a year. Every one of them feel like great strides are being made. Every one of them said it was nothing like you see on the news. Every one of them said that most of the Iraqi people want this. They want us to leave, but not until they can handle it themselves.

I firmly believe that some here are so politically motivated, that they cheer any news about the war that is not good for the US. I have to be honest, but I never thought I would live to see that day in this country.

Whether anyone likes it or not, we are there. Put aside your political motivations, and support the government and our troops until this is done. Is that so much to ask?

[KE7DFP]

Al2I- #In reponse, yes, yes, less. #Our application of military principle was constantly hamstrung by the pressures from antis. #When you begin a military assault, you use your artillery (air can be artillery) #to reduce the enemy to a point where he scan be overun #with a minimull amount of losses on your part. #Hopefully you also decimate him to a point where at least those units are out of the war. #You don't want to let up on the pressure, allowing him to regroup, resupply, or rest. #In Nam, we consistantly were ordered to back off for "peace talks" which were not good faith negotiations. #Their purpose was to simply buy time. Many a hill was taken, given back, retaken. #Paying many times over for the same piece of real estate. #Air cover was not permittedl to operate effectively. #Pressure from the anti war movement forced Presidents to continually back off just before the coup de grace. Recently, the top V.C. generals have admitted they were more than once prepared to surrender. #But every time we had them, we backed off. #They couldn't figure out why we were doing this. #They were prepared to surrender (sue for peace) when we finally pulled out. Remember, there were americans meeting with them and co-ordinating strategies, between the V.C. and the Anti War Organizers, in Paris. # #Emboldened by the events at home,and cooperation from the Anti war movement, #they gained courage and helded out. The result was of course, another massacre. #That's what I remember, if someone's an expert on military history they might remember it a little different. #Many lives would have been saved on both ends had we been allowed to fight a war. #Hope that helped- 73s- Randy

[KE7DFP]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,12:06)]#


I firmly believe that some here are so politically motivated, that they cheer any news about the war that is not good for the US. #I have to be honest, but I never thought I would live to see that day in this country.

Whether anyone likes it or not, we are there. #Put aside your political motivations, and support the government and our troops until this is done. #Is that so much to ask?
I know, if you honestly ask yourself, " John Kerry is sitting in a room with all his campaign ad execs, his King makers, and they are watching the news one week before elections. He sees on T.V. a breaking news report. We've taken 10,000 casualties and are effecting a hurried retreart from Baghdad, our Marines are being picked off by snipers as they flee. What would his reaction be? would he be deeply troubled,( OR ) Would he say YES!!! !, the room erupting into shouts of glee and Jigs danced all around. We've got the Presidency)? Remember, this is one of the Anti War Organizers who met Madame Dhou, the Viet Cong representative, in Paris. It's sad that Politics have gotten so bad we can't even put them a side in a time of war. Well that's it for me. I'm getting off this and going to work. Just something to think about 73s- Randy

[W5MJL]

Although I am not of the WWII era, I am familar with Rosie the Riveter. #For those of you who are too young or not even born yet, Rosie stood for the American women that went to work in our factories to keep the war supply production lines moving. #They worked in aircraft industries, steel mills, lumber mills etc. #Their support was just as essential as the men fighting the war.

How comforting would it be if our troops found out that Rosie went out on strike because they thought Hitler was just a cool misunderstood dude? #How would it make you feel if you were fighting for our freedom and the people at home thought you were fighting for the wrong reasons, or in a war that should have never been fought? #How would it make you feel if you were fighting, and the only thing you heard about home is that your commander in-chief is a CRIMINAL?

After Vietnam, our veterans were spat upon and called baby killers. #I am sure the same people that encouraged those actions are also against this war. #Nice company. #Remember, you are the company that you keep!!!

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,11:28)]In a very real way, yes the dissent lost the war. Yes the dissent cost American lives.

If I know my enemy is having problems at home with support, I gain additional strength from that fact.
I can't help but think in retrospect that even if we had been absolutely steadfast in our resolve to win the war in Vietnam and never even had a single dissenting voice here at home, that we would not have "won" in Vietnam. I am not convinced that the war would be over.

I am fervently hoping that Iraq will be better for us, and that the Iraq government will be able to stand on its own better than the Vietnamese government did.

73,
Dave/al2i

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 20 2005,14:59)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,11:28)]In a very real way, yes the dissent lost the war. #Yes the dissent cost American lives.

If I know my enemy is having problems at home with support, I gain additional strength from that fact.
I can't help but think in retrospect that even if we had been absolutely steadfast in our resolve to win the war in Vietnam and never even had a single dissenting voice here at home, that we would not have "won" in Vietnam. #I am not convinced that the war would be over.

I am fervently hoping that Iraq will be better for us, and that the Iraq government will be able to stand on its own better than the Vietnamese government did.

73,
#Dave/al2i
So what you are saying is you don't believe the US has the power to defeat a country the size of NJ?

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,13:06)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 20 2005,14:59)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,11:28)]In a very real way, yes the dissent lost the war. Yes the dissent cost American lives.

If I know my enemy is having problems at home with support, I gain additional strength from that fact.
I can't help but think in retrospect that even if we had been absolutely steadfast in our resolve to win the war in Vietnam and never even had a single dissenting voice here at home, that we would not have "won" in Vietnam. I am not convinced that the war would be over.

I am fervently hoping that Iraq will be better for us, and that the Iraq government will be able to stand on its own better than the Vietnamese government did.

73,
Dave/al2i
So what you are saying is you don't believe the US has the power to defeat a country the size of NJ?
America beat the NVA and VC repeatedly. America totally crushed the Iraq armed forces a long time ago. In both cases, our military might is/was supreme. Unfortunately, brute force domination does not always solve the problem.

73,
Dave/al2i

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,13:06)]So what you are saying is you don't believe the US has the power to defeat a country the size of NJ?
Perhaps he's saying we'd have accomplished just as much if we had attacked NJ.

Why did we attack Vietnam, anyhow? What US interests were threatened by a N. Vietmanese takeover? Were these interests indeed harmed by the eventual takeover?

[n0jaa]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,10:17)]I think the comments are right on target. #If you do not agree with what this country does or what the political leaders say, you need to pack up and leave immediately. #But this being the home of the free and land of the brave, dissenters should be given at least one opportunity to correct their inappropriate behavior.
I think YOU need to leave! It's okay when you post what YOU think, but when someone differs with your opinion, or offers an opinion that YOU think is inappropriate, YOU want them to leave! How childish is that?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it!

You want to get heated? Go sit on your old boat-anchor and toast your butt for a few hours!

You'd better reseal your can of worms before they slither away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Paul, N0JAA.

[k6bbc]

Good to see you back in form ORV!!!

K6BBC

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ June 20 2005,10:41)]You have the right to dissent and speak your opinions. No problem there. You can write poems about fires, you can express scientific opinions about fire, you can tell us you fear fire, or fire disgusts you. But during a time of war, you don't have the right to scream FIRE! in a crowded theater. Especially if you actions cause the death of brave soldiers.
Explain to me how writing your opinions about how this government is screwing up is going to cause casualties? Sounds like a convenient excuse for censorship.

Maybe this needs to be looked at another way; we didn't have much dissent for WWII because the enemy was obvious. Not so with Vietnam and Iraq, so maybe we need to make sure our enemies are really our enemies or do a better job of selling the war.

I don't think the Bush administration did a very good job of either. Fact is, we're in a war that will accomplish little in the fight against terrorism except cement stronger bonds among Muslim extremists and bring them all into Iraq. They were not there before. And Bush isn't smart enough to have though about fighting them in someone else's backyard. It's just a singular fortunate consequence of a bad decision.

With that said and not being one to fail to give credit where credit is due, Bush handled Afghanistan rather nicely.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 20 2005,15:16)]America beat the NVA and VC repeatedly. #America totally crushed the Iraq armed forces a long time ago. #In both cases, our military might is/was supreme. #Unfortunately, brute force domination does not always solve the problem.

73,
#Dave/al2i
I agree. #Brute force doesn't always solve the problem. #We didn't have to leave vietnam with our tail between our legs. #We could have won very easily but the politcal environment in this country at the time made it political suicide to continue the war.

By making that mistake, we have encouraged others to take us on. #Our enemies know if they hang in there our people will grow tired of war. #Osama was very happy to point that out. We cannot afford to make that mistake ever again. #If we do, you will get to see what the Roman Empire felt like. #We have to finish the job.

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ June 20 2005,13:21)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,10:17)]I think the comments are right on target. If you do not agree with what this country does or what the political leaders say, you need to pack up and leave immediately. But this being the home of the free and land of the brave, dissenters should be given at least one opportunity to correct their inappropriate behavior.
I think YOU need to leave! It's okay when you post what YOU think, but when someone differs with your opinion, or offers an opinion that YOU think is inappropriate, YOU want them to leave! How childish is that?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it!

You want to get heated? Go sit on your old boat-anchor and toast your butt for a few hours!

You'd better reseal your can of worms before they slither away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Paul, N0JAA.
Didja bother to read the entire post or is your Internet firewall also filtering sarcasm and hyperbole?

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,13:29)]Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ June 20 2005,13:21)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,10:17)]I think the comments are right on target. If you do not agree with what this country does or what the political leaders say, you need to pack up and leave immediately. But this being the home of the free and land of the brave, dissenters should be given at least one opportunity to correct their inappropriate behavior.
I think YOU need to leave! It's okay when you post what YOU think, but when someone differs with your opinion, or offers an opinion that YOU think is inappropriate, YOU want them to leave! How childish is that?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it!

You want to get heated? Go sit on your old boat-anchor and toast your butt for a few hours!

You'd better reseal your can of worms before they slither away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Paul, N0JAA.
Didja bother to read the entire post or is your Internet firewall also filtering sarcasm and hyperbole?
Hmmm. Was his post just sarcasm and hyperbole pushed up to the next level?

LOL!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


73,
Dave/al2i

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,15:26)]Maybe this needs to be looked at another way; we didn't have much dissent for WWII because the enemy was obvious. #Not so with Vietnam and Iraq, so maybe we need to make sure our enemies are really our enemies or do a better job of selling the war.
Just because your enemy is not obvious, it does not make them any less of an enemy. The world is on notice if you harbor or aid terrorists you will be dealt with by force. There is no other way to handle this. You can't use diplomacy because you have no one with which to negotiate. If anything, people should be more upset about why we are not getting full cooperation from all of our so-called allies. This is a world problem. We and the Brits are the only ones with guts enough to do something about it.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ June 20 2005,13:18)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,13:06)]So what you are saying is you don't believe the US has the power to defeat a country the size of NJ?
Perhaps he's saying we'd have accomplished just as much if we had attacked NJ.

Why did we attack Vietnam, anyhow? What US interests were threatened by a N. Vietmanese takeover? Were these interests indeed harmed by the eventual takeover?
Good question. But we didn't, strictly speaking, "attack" Vietnam, so there are encouraging differences in the Iraq situation..

But discouragingly, maybe we fought in Vietnam for exactly the same reason we are fighting in Iraq: a real or imagined fear of danger eminating from the country.

73,
Dave/al2i

[W5MJL]

Kennedy put us in Vietnam because we were worried about the domino effect of communism. #If one country falls to communism, the others might too. #We had only sent advisors to Vietnam during the Kennedy administration. #Under the Johnson adminstrations a N. Vietnamese boat attacked one of our PT Boats and from that the Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin resolution which basically gave the president full power to use whatever force was necessary.

And Dave, you may be right about the "perceived" danger being more of a reality than it appeared, but nevertheless we are there, and must make the best of it.

[W2ILP]

k8ncr

I failed your test.

I can not put a check mark in any of your choices...at least without any explanation.

I dunno where you could deport me...Maybe back to The Bronx, New York.

w2ilp (Independent Logical Poster)

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 20 2005,13:41)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,13:29)]Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ June 20 2005,13:21)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,10:17)]I think the comments are right on target. If you do not agree with what this country does or what the political leaders say, you need to pack up and leave immediately. But this being the home of the free and land of the brave, dissenters should be given at least one opportunity to correct their inappropriate behavior.
I think YOU need to leave! It's okay when you post what YOU think, but when someone differs with your opinion, or offers an opinion that YOU think is inappropriate, YOU want them to leave! How childish is that?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it!

You want to get heated? Go sit on your old boat-anchor and toast your butt for a few hours!

You'd better reseal your can of worms before they slither away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Paul, N0JAA.
Didja bother to read the entire post or is your Internet firewall also filtering sarcasm and hyperbole?
Hmmm. Was his post just sarcasm and hyperbole pushed up to the next level?

LOL!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


73,
Dave/al2i
Quit using hyperbole and sarcasm on me, I don't like it! Watch it pal, or a bucket of daschunds will be arriving UPS.

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,13:42)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,15:26)]Maybe this needs to be looked at another way; we didn't have much dissent for WWII because the enemy was obvious. Not so with Vietnam and Iraq, so maybe we need to make sure our enemies are really our enemies or do a better job of selling the war.
Just because your enemy is not obvious, it does not make them any less of an enemy. The world is on notice if you harbor or aid terrorists you will be dealt with by force. There is no other way to handle this. You can't use diplomacy because you have no one with which to negotiate. If anything, people should be more upset about why we are not getting full cooperation from all of our so-called allies. This is a world problem. We and the Brits are the only ones with guts enough to do something about it.
Okay, so who was the enemy in Iraq?

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,10:17)]Here's how it works; if you do not agree with dissenting opinions or free thinking individuals, you tear off one of these QRZ OO reports and send it to them...get it?? Okay, maybe not. 73 and good luck in the contest...
ROTFLM*O!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,16:29)]Okay, so who was the enemy in Iraq?
Sadaam Hussein and his support for terrorism.

[W2ILP]

We did not know that Saddam directly supported terrorists until very recenntly...and there still remains some doubt about it. We did not know about it when we invaded Iraq nor did the President of the U.S. claim it was a reson for invasion at that time.

w2ilp (Initially Late Proof)

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,15:12)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,16:29)]Okay, so who was the enemy in Iraq?
Sadaam Hussein and his support for terrorism.
I'm not clear on who he supported. Who did he support?

[n2nh]

If you're talking of "The Daily Worker" (Commie Rag), they were a bunch of headcases. Nobody and I DO mean Nobody takes them seriously.

[KE7DFP]

1)I just did explain 2)There was a LOT of dissent before we went into WW11, but unlkike now, it stopped the minute 2000 plus American boys died on American soil, at Pearl. Everyone got behind the ball together #3)Afghanastan and Iraq are the same thing. Just as Italy, No. Africa, and Midway were the same in WW11. #It is absolutely imperative for the liberal arguement, to seperate them, but it's the same war. #It's semantical gesticulation , #nothing #more!!#Iraq's position is strategic and absolutely essential. Iraq and #Afghanstan, these are only Fronts. #What battlefield did the Al queda remnants flee to when we crushed them in Afghanistan. (hint: it's near Baghdad ) They joined their brothers in Iraq. #You see, the same war you feel is righteous has simply shifted geopraphy!!! #Just like WW11, I expect it to shift a few more times. #We beat Rommel's Afrika Corp n No. Africa, #so we have to go to go Sicily, Sardinia, Italy, etc. #Never fought a single day on German soil until the very end, and never really on Japanese soil at all. #(a couple of small Islands. # don't remember the names) #I would just ask that you try to see the whole thing in a historical perspective. #You think Iraq looks bad? #Check out the early years of ww11 in the So. Pacific. #Relax, it's all going to be ok. #It's going to work out. #Victory in Jihadastan!!!

[KE7DFP]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ June 20 2005,15:18)]We did not know that Saddam directly supported terrorists until very recenntly...and there still remains some doubt about it. #We did not know about it when we invaded Iraq nor did the President of the U.S. claim it was a reson for invasion at that time.

w2ilp (Initially Late Proof)
Wrong! we knew the Al queda training camp was there, and we knew his was giving money to PLO and other terrorists.org

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ June 20 2005,16:07)]Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ June 20 2005,15:18)]We did not know that Saddam directly supported terrorists until very recenntly...and there still remains some doubt about it. We did not know about it when we invaded Iraq nor did the President of the U.S. claim it was a reson for invasion at that time.

w2ilp (Initially Late Proof)
Wrong! we knew the Al queda training camp was there, and we knew his was giving money to PLO and other terrorists.org
I don't think there was a training camp in Iraq. Under Saddam, those were people who could cause trouble for him and that wouldn't have been tolerated.

Giving money to terrorist organizations? I buy that.

[N6WK]

Oh My God.
So now if I question the Politicians that run this country, I am being labeled a "Traitor".
By who's reasoning is this? I have the right to question our leadership anytime I see fit.
There is a difference between This Fiasco in Iraq and World War II.
In world War II, Congress DECLARED War on Japn and then on Germany. Although I have heard Congress gave it's approval to invade Iraq, I have yet to see a Declaration of War on it.
Spin as you will, It is a bad deal and It's a NO win situation for us Americans.
To the comment
"Amateur Radio has become a corp of DISGUSTING LOSERS!!! "
All I can say is, Turn in your License and go your merry way!
I disgaree that we are losers.

Gordon
N6WK

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,18:24)]I don't think there was a training camp in Iraq. #Under Saddam, those were people who could cause trouble for him and that wouldn't have been tolerated.

Giving money to terrorist organizations? #I buy that.
There was a terrorist training camp. We found it with the help of the kurds before we started our assault on northern Iraq. After we destroyed it there were news organizations did live reports from the camp.

We have satellites that can take us down to a resolution of a few feet. Give our intelligence a break, we do and did know of weapons there. Unfortunately, things can be moved when the satellite loses it's position, during sand storms, and at night.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,14:27)]Quit using hyperbole and sarcasm on me, I don't like it! Watch it pal, or a bucket of daschunds will be arriving UPS.
*GULP* http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 20 2005,19:56)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,14:27)]Quit using hyperbole and sarcasm on me, I don't like it! Watch it pal, or a bucket of daschunds will be arriving UPS.
*GULP* http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Ahhh... the old daschunds in the Trojan Uninterrupted Power Supply trick!

[w5klb]

Feel da love.

Gordon N6WK, I disagree with you, but you are not a loser.

Dave, WX7B, I disagree with you, but you are not a loser.

Bill, W8EFA, I disagree with you, but you are not a loser.

OES, I disagree with you, but you are not a loser.

NCR, I disagree with you, but you are not a loser.

etc, etc, etc.

Where are the "losers"? I have yet to meet anyone in the ARS who are "losers". "Misguided" maybe, but not "losers". Damn, if felt that way, I think I would be for turning in my license and take up stamp collecting.

We can set in judgement of others, tell all newbies that we are too good to come down and talk to them on their "2 meter CB" and continue to ensure the DEATH OF AMATEUR RADIO by our words and deeds. To hell with setting an example for anyone. That would be like showing a weakness. REAL AMATEURS don't do this. We would rather whine and snivel than to get off our dead arses. That would require REAL EFFORT on our part when whining and sniveling about Amateur Radio being a "corps of LOSERS" is soooo much easier.

Sorry about the rant. But by gawd, someone around here need to adjust their attitudes. I am for supporting my country in EVERY way, and did it for 12 years. But, I remember that I also support and ALLOW dissenting opinions. This is another reason why I served. Some people have forgotten this. I won't ever forget.

[w6ez]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,15:19)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 20 2005,15:12)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 20 2005,16:29)]Okay, so who was the enemy in Iraq?
Sadaam Hussein and his support for terrorism.
I'm not clear on who he supported. Who did he support?
One example is that he paid a bounty of about 10K to the family of any bomber that blew himself up along with a jew or american.

I read about that long before 911.

[K6UEY]

As the IGNORANT and UNINFORMED amass they need a public podium to display their illiteracy.The Internet is the tool made to order!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[w5lda]

So Orv

Was the internet your podium when you started this topic?As for the ignorant and uninformed,one wonders why the shoe fits you so well.

[G8ADD]

Let's step back to the origins of this thread. I am not sure where these anti-American posts are and would like to have a few identified so that I can go and read them.

Anti-American (or for that matter, anti-British, I'm sure I've seen some of that!) sentiments should always be treated seriously and without anger, because you NEED to know where these sentiments are coming from. The fact that people are prepared to sacrifice their own lives to kill Americans indicates that America has failed badly somewhere. It is not enough to invade countries that are considered to be terrorist havens, or to destroy terrorist training camps and wipe out cells of terrorists and their support organisations. They expect to die and more will appear to replace them. In fact the more successful you are in destroying terrorists, the more recruits they will get. The need is to find ways of reducing their desire to kill Americans, to reduce their support in their populations without using fear as a weapon - because it won't work. Not with people that expect to die and welcome death.

I think that describing the campaign against terrorism as a war was a serious mistake because it glamourises their cause. It is not a war, it is at the most an international police action. It ignores the simple fact that disarming your enemy is only a first step rather than the only aim.

There was a time, not so far back, when all that most of the world knew about America was what they learned from Hollywood. Much of the world knew of and admired what was called the American Dream. What does Hollywood teach them now?

You have an image problem, and behind that a reality problem. Using brute force to root out the results of those problems is like trying to use positive feedback to control machinery.

Calling each other names is fiddling whilst Rome burns.

73

Brian G8ADD (Always Defends Daschunds)

[w5lda]

Orv

You really need to understand that we see who the real loser is!

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (G8ADD @ June 21 2005,03:34)]I think that describing the campaign against terrorism as a war was a serious mistake because it glamourises their cause. It is not a war, it is at the most an international police action. It ignores the simple fact that disarming your enemy is only a first step rather than the only aim.
America really doesn't win any wars anymore. We had the "War on Poverty", "War on Cancer" and the "War on Drugs", which are all apparenly un-winnable wars, as I guess the "War on Terrorism" will be.

If there is a war, the government can take away the wealth and rights of its citizens more easily. If they complain, they can be tagged as unpatriotic. The neat thing about war on improper nouns is that the government can keep on taking and tagging: improper nouns never surrender.

73,
Dave/al2i

[N6WK]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 21 2005,09:24)]KD5VSG,
Larry I'm some what surprised and really disappointed,all you can offer in retalitation is the N6WK Profile,personal attack!!

Here we Go aGAIN!. # #
sHEESH.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (G8ADD @ June 21 2005,05:34)]Anti-American (or for that matter, anti-British, I'm sure I've seen some of that!) sentiments should always be treated seriously and without anger, because you NEED to know where these sentiments are coming from. The fact that people are prepared to sacrifice their own lives to kill Americans indicates that America has failed badly somewhere. It is not enough to invade countries that are considered to be terrorist havens, or to destroy terrorist training camps and wipe out cells of terrorists and their support organisations. They expect to die and more will appear to replace them. In fact the more successful you are in destroying terrorists, the more recruits they will get. The need is to find ways of reducing their desire to kill Americans, to reduce their support in their populations without using fear as a weapon - because it won't work. Not with people that expect to die and welcome death.
I agree we have an image problem. #Unfortunately that image problem has been going on since 1947 when we recognized Israel as a legitimate government. #That is 58 years worth of hate.

You cannot get rid of 58 years of hate. #We cannot look at long term plans to change our image as our ONLY solution. #It will take too long. #We have an immediate problem with terrorism, and our people will not allow anyone to tell them that EVENTUALLY we can bring about change.

I think it's more important to look at why people become terrorists. #The middle east is filled with a few EXTREMELY WEALTHY people, and an enormous amount of peasants. #When people feel unimportant and worthless they are more apt to become a martyr. #They are more apt to FIND someone to hate or blame. #Fix that problem, and you won't have as many people wanting to give up their lives.

Regardless of what anyone says about the success of this war on terror, we have kept terrorist actions off of our shores. #The terrorists know that if Iraq turns into a democracy their chances of continuing to have a major impact on the region will lessen dramatically.

[KE7DFP]

OK, so a bunch of 7th century cavemen are the barometer that America must gauge herself by. #We don't make a move unless it cedes something to their demands. #Maybe if we give into every demand and threat, we can eventually become just like them. # The fact that people are willing to give their lives means simply they are dillusional, and beyond rehabilitaation. People gave their lives in Jonestown, too They are simply identifing themselves to the world as #culls. # The Japanese in WW11 gladly stepped up to be #suicide bombers. #They did it also with view of religious reward in heaven. Was this an indication that there was something wrong with America? #Did that mean America should just change and cede to the wishes of the Japanese? #I think your a little off here. #Please step back, my friend, and take another look. If your theory is correct I would typing this to you in Japanese. #In fact , the ONLY way to deal with these types it to cull them from the breeding population. #I'm sorry, but , I was just reading the World Workers paper (WWP) and that is the very line they called for in their official stance. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # They went a little further than that, they also said America just wants to turn the world into a big chicken farm, fattening up the hens on Coca Cola and Hamburgers, taking them to the slaughter when their usefullness has been served. #They were quoting George Calloway, your PM on that one. #As far as the burgers and Coca Cola, sign this chicken up!!!! # #73s #G8ADD #(Brian, right?)

[KC0QOR]

This message goes on a rant for a bit....sorry.

I do not disagree that the enemies of our country need to be killed. What makes me mad is that so many innocents have died as a result of this campaign. Children, mothers, students are all in the line of fire. Iraq was a soveriegn nation that never posed any threat to gool ol USA. The only threat from Iraq was against the Bush/Cheney pride. I can't believe how many of you blindly follow a fool and never question anything he says....

OMG we're at war!!!! Our Pres is infalliable! In the name of GOD kill those terrist Arackees 'Merica will be safer!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
An example of the rhetoric of our illiterate leaders. 'Merica is not a country...And niether is America. We live inthe United States of America, or U.S.A. for short. Not 'Merica TerrORists, Mr. Bush. You can't leave out a whole syllable and still sound like you know what the hell you are talking about.

The neocons and the Taliban are so similar it sends chills down my spine. God, while great and powerful, has absolutely no pupose in government. We should all develop our own relationship with God and keep it to ourselves. Stop the theocracy...impeach Bush.

[k9kxq]

Impeach Bush (http://www.impeachbush.tv/)

kxq

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (k9kxq @ June 21 2005,13:38)]Impeach Bush (http://www.impeachbush.tv/)

kxq
Impeach away, it won't do any good except to give the minds of the delirious something to occupy their minds.

[G8ADD]

KE7DFP.....In fact , the ONLY way to deal with these types it to cull them from the breeding population......

The point is that they will quite happily cull themselves from the breeding population, as long as they can take an honour guard of Americans with them. Such ferocious hate is chilling, and it can't be dealt with in the long term by using Gung Ho tactics. I don't advocate giving in to demands, I'm not even sure that any recognisable demands have been made, and I don't advocate that America should change (Dammit, I like you as you are!) but the source of their hate needs to be understood and if possible dealt with. If your only answer is to kill them as you find them, then the ones you don't find will kill you. You have to stop them from wanting to kill you, and if possible quickly, because it can become quite wearing having to live with regular bomb alerts.

By the way, George Galloway may be an MP but he is not a PM. He has some strange ideas and hasn't sold any of them to me!

I'll sign up for the chicken but can't stand any brand of cola - make mine a beer!

73

Brian G8ADD.

[KE7DFP]

Howdeee Brian. #I just wrote you a post and # before I clicked "send" the computer crashed and it flushed into cyberspace. #Just as well, it was a bit of a Tome. #It was a journey through the European middle ages, Maoist thought, Pax Romana, #and the futre of modern Robotic armies and the Cosa Nostra.--so that will have to wait for another time (Thank goodness he says). #I will just quickily say, this conflict is most like the war of the Sicilian people with the Cosa Nostra. #They won by standing up and taking their licks once, instead of over and over. #As far as the drinking of Coca Cola, I was #NOT advocating the use of straight Coca Cola. #I wrongly assumed a disclaimer was implied. #Always mix 50-50 with Bourbon whiskey (not the good stuff you have over there) #then drink a beer. # Coke does make a great solvent thopugh. #PM, MP, I thought i had that wrong when I typed it. I thought PM, that's Prime Minister, MP, that's a yaseu ft-1000. #Oh well. # Was the band open on twenty last night or what? (I guess this morning to you). You guys, and the rest of Europe, #were coming in over the pole like mad. #Don't know how many I worked who were #getting on the radio quick before they went to work. #73s #I'm going to get something done. # Randy # KE7DFP

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (G8ADD @ June 21 2005,06:34)]Let's step back to the origins of this thread. I am not sure where these anti-American posts are and would like to have a few identified so that I can go and read them.

Anti-American (or for that matter, anti-British, I'm sure I've seen some of that!) sentiments should always be treated seriously and without anger, because you NEED to know where these sentiments are coming from. The fact that people are prepared to sacrifice their own lives to kill Americans indicates that America has failed badly somewhere. ...

There was a time, not so far back, when all that most of the world knew about America was what they learned from Hollywood. Much of the world knew of and admired what was called the American Dream. What does Hollywood teach them now?

You have an image problem, and behind that a reality problem. Using brute force to root out the results of those problems is like trying to use positive feedback to control machinery.

Calling each other names is fiddling whilst Rome burns.

73

Brian G8ADD (Always Defends Daschunds)
The people who hate America now, hated the Soviet Union before this, the Jews before that, ad infinitum... Is it cultural? Is it religion? Is it conditioning? I don't really know. But, hate seems to be an ongoing heritage for them - hardly something that can be blamed on America, Russia or anybody else.

Most movie studios in Hollywood are no longer American owned. The Japanese bought them and you may have noticed that movies are no longer "American" looking. This also explains movies like "The Ring" etc. that were originally Japanese or based on Japanese stories.

I will agree that there is a reality problem. But the problem is hardly one that America has a monopoly on. Image (media) is being substituted for reality in almost every area of the globe. The question isn't whether or not there's a reality problem, or why the problem exists. The question is who is creating the problem.

In the face of this adversity, I totally agree with you Brian. We, the US and our allies and friends, must be and think together rather than be divisive.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ June 22 2005,13:02)]The people who hate America now, hated the Soviet Union before this, the Jews before that, ad infinitum... #Is it cultural? #Is it religion? #Is it conditioning? #I don't really know. #But, hate seems to be an ongoing heritage for them - hardly something that can be blamed on America, Russia or anybody else. #
Absolutely the best post of the thread.

[KE7DFP]

I second that.

[kc7jty]

Welcome back Orv.

[KG4CGC]

So let's just give away American jobs, done by Americans in America, to illegal aliens who cross the border with fake documents or access to fake documents so they can just undercut the American family all in the name of "good business".

[KG4CGC]

Close the borders! You come in LEGAL or NOT AT ALL!

[wd5kca]

America should have closed the borders in 1621 but were out gunned by England, France and Spain.

[KG4CGC]

Quote[/b] (wd5kca @ June 25 2005,22:10)]America should have closed the borders in 1621 but were out gunned by England, France and Spain.
Good point!

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,21:50)]Close the borders! You come in LEGAL or NOT AT ALL!
The big problem is that if they close the borders, they'll just outsource more jobs.

[KG4CGC]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ June 26 2005,00:33)]Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,21:50)]Close the borders! You come in LEGAL or NOT AT ALL!
The big problem is that if they close the borders, they'll just outsource more jobs.
Maybe, but not the same kind of jobs I'm thinking of. Take my job for example.

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,18:50)]Close the borders! You come in LEGAL or NOT AT ALL!
And perhaps increase the penalities for hiring illegal labor?

Just what are the penalties anyhow?

[KG4CGC]

Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ June 26 2005,09:38)]Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,18:50)]Close the borders! You come in LEGAL or NOT AT ALL!
And perhaps increase the penalities for hiring illegal labor?

Just what are the penalties anyhow?
There are indeed penalties in the form of fines but they are not enforced because businesses have been clamoring for years that other countries have an unfair advantage with their cheap labor. I don't think we should be competing with China to produce cheap goods. This is America! We should be producing the BEST! The highest quality possible. There will always be a market for RELIABLE high quality products and we should be setting the standard for the rest of the world.
In the business I was involved in, it was decided in an undisclosed memo that quality was no longer an issue. Just get the product out the door and if the customer doesn't like it replace it or give them a credit but don't waste any time looking at things like customer specifications that may cut into our profits. You have got to figure that if we get it right 50% of the time then the customer will be happy, afterall, look at all that crap coming out of China.
And that, is how they see it. If the powers that be won't enforce illegal labor laws then where is the incentive to comply? And, who gets screwed in the end? That's right, The American Family. Joe Average with 2 or 3 kids and his wife has to work a fulltime job just to make ends meet. With a mortgage or rent and two car payments, insurance, meeting all the requirements the school imposes on their children (financial impositions that go beyond clothing, school supplies and food), then he is taxed into oblivion on every piece of property real or imagined by the state. Guess Ole Joe won't be getting that boat anytime soon so the kids won't be going fishing and poor Old Granpa wants to help out but he can't. Old Granpa is on a fixed income and he lost his pension because the company that he was loyal to for over 45 years decided it would not be profitable to pay Old Granpa the money that they promised him but the CEO still got to walk away with hundreds of millions in his pocket not to mention all the prescription drugs Granpa and Granny have to take.
Yes, let's just give this country away and work our way back to the dark ages of slavery.

[KB9YCO]

Yes Orv, I too see many anti-American sentiments; such as the in-aptly titled Patriot act, flag burning amendments that completely defy the meaning of the flag (though most people that burn flags do deserve to be ostracized and/or pummelled), FCC bans on free speech in the supposed 'free' media, erosion of private ownership of land, especially in regards to emminent domain, government intrusion into the private lives of citizens and their choices over their bodies and their life and death decisions, and of course the government's complete complicity with big business coporate interests, with little or no regard for the rights of the average person.
Indeed, I see many anti-American sentinments, most of them come from the polarized party extremists in the government.
(My apologies for returning to the initial point of this post.)

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 26 2005,07:40)]Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ June 26 2005,09:38)]Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,18:50)]Close the borders! You come in LEGAL or NOT AT ALL!
And perhaps increase the penalities for hiring illegal labor?

Just what are the penalties anyhow?
There are indeed penalties in the form of fines but they are not enforced because businesses have been clamoring for years that other countries have an unfair advantage with their cheap labor. I don't think we should be competing with China to produce cheap goods. This is America! We should be producing the BEST! The highest quality possible. There will always be a market for RELIABLE high quality products and we should be setting the standard for the rest of the world.
In the business I was involved in, it was decided in an undisclosed memo that quality was no longer an issue. Just get the product out the door and if the customer doesn't like it replace it or give them a credit but don't waste any time looking at things like customer specifications that may cut into our profits. You have got to figure that if we get it right 50% of the time then the customer will be happy, afterall, look at all that crap coming out of China.
And that, is how they see it. If the powers that be won't enforce illegal labor laws then where is the incentive to comply? And, who gets screwed in the end? That's right, The American Family. Joe Average with 2 or 3 kids and his wife has to work a fulltime job just to make ends meet. With a mortgage or rent and two car payments, insurance, meeting all the requirements the school imposes on their children (financial impositions that go beyond clothing, school supplies and food), then he is taxed into oblivion on every piece of property real or imagined by the state. Guess Ole Joe won't be getting that boat anytime soon so the kids won't be going fishing and poor Old Granpa wants to help out but he can't. Old Granpa is on a fixed income and he lost his pension because the company that he was loyal to for over 45 years decided it would not be profitable to pay Old Granpa the money that they promised him but the CEO still got to walk away with hundreds of millions in his pocket not to mention all the prescription drugs Granpa and Granny have to take.
Yes, let's just give this country away and work our way back to the dark ages of slavery.
But other than that, things aren't so bad!


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[w8znx]

so whats new

world has been going to hell
in a hand basket for over 3,000 years

rich and powerfull
screw over the little guy

always have
always will

blame it all on
the international dachshund conspiracy

mac
the poodle bites the poodle chews it

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 24 2005,19:50)]Close the borders! You come in LEGAL or NOT AT ALL!
Sorry Bud....not politically correct. Now you know why we should bounce all the f*^@ing politicians and take our country back.....whats that you say?.......you can't because you're too busy voting!?.......then you are in no position to complain!

[KG4CGC]

I'm not politically correct anyway so I don't care.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,21:15)]I'm not politically correct anyway so I don't care.
There is nothing more politically correct than a politician. Do you vote? If the answer is yes you are more politically correct that you think.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,13:48)]Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,21:15)]I'm not politically correct anyway so I don't care.
There is nothing more politically correct than a politician. Do you vote? If the answer is yes you are more politically correct that you think.
OK, let's follow this logic. All uninterested parties don't vote. So, the person with the largest amount of friends and relatives win. Now what does that accomplish? How is your voice heard? It's far better to vote for the lesser of two evils than to not vote at all.

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,11:48)]Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 25 2005,21:15)]I'm not politically correct anyway so I don't care.
There is nothing more politically correct than a politician. Do you vote? If the answer is yes you are more politically correct that you think.
it's a really very simple idea , if you deliberately do not vote, you have no right to complain about who gets elected. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[KG4CGC]

I should have clarified. I don't care, to be politically correct. I feel that part of the problem with society is the teaching in the schools that one must call a shovel a garden tool and not call it by its name, shovel.
Oops! We can't call something a tool because it could get construde as an insult so it must be refered to as an earth moving implement which would also cover picks and hoes.
For the original topic, each side is so polarized that millions will be spent on smear campaigns because politicians think voters are stupid and the rationale is always, "Well, the other side is doing it".
I'd like the mess in the Middle East to be cleaned up but considering all the fighting that has been going on in that region since the begining of recorded history I doubt that it will ever end. I agree on some of Bush's policies but disagree on others. Our current border situation is an area where I disagree. In Iraq I feel that the sooner we get the job done the better. Problem is, shock and awe has turned into anything but.
So, to recap, I support the President to finish what was started in the Middle East but it will take years. I do not support the current blind eye policy on the borders and jobs. Too bad it is all more complicated than just these simple terms.
Thanks All.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,12:56)]#It's far better to vote for the lesser of two evils than to not vote at all.
Yeah!...you just keep telling yourself that as our country goes down the drain.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ June 26 2005,13:06)]it's a really very simple idea , if you deliberately do not vote, you have no right to complain about who gets elected. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Yeah!....you just keep telling yourself that as our country goes down the drain.

BTW: Donnie baby (Rumsfeld) says it might take another 12 years to quash the insurgency in Iraq. I wonder who he is talking to?....oh....maybe people like you. I wonder who he is the lesser evil to?

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,16:03)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,12:56)]#It's far better to vote for the lesser of two evils than to not vote at all.
Yeah!...you just keep telling yourself that as our country goes down the drain.
I guess your resolution of the problem would require revolution?

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ June 26 2005,13:32)]In Iraq I feel that the sooner we get the job done the better.
# So, to recap, I support the President to finish what was started in the Middle East but it will take years.
Some felt that way about Viet Nam. Too bad people like you don't always get your way....or is it?
The fact that we are and will be a complete failure in Iraq & Afghanistan is a very good thing. It is the lesser of 2 evils.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:10)]I guess your resolution of the problem would require revolution?
That may well be the case. Once a tick gets its mouth into the juices its quite difficult to extract it without doing some damage. To the tick or the victim.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,16:17)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:10)]I guess your resolution of the problem would require revolution?
That may well be the case. Once a tick gets its mouth into the juices its quite difficult to extract it without doing some damage. To the tick or the victim.
We have our problems, but revolution is not going to solve any of them.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:22)]We have our problems, but revolution is not going to solve any of them.
Divine words of wit? The future cannot be seen, a possible revolution may well be the best scenario in the months/years ahead. Rapid deterioration of an already poor situation can change things significantly.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,16:45)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:22)]We have our problems, but revolution is not going to solve any of them.
Divine words of wit? The future cannot be seen, a possible revolution may well be the best scenario in the months/years ahead. Rapid deterioration of an already poor situation can change things significantly.
I mentioned in another thread that I felt one day I would be reading about you in a not so favorable light. The more you post, the more you convince me I was right.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:48)]Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,16:45)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:22)]We have our problems, but revolution is not going to solve any of them.
Divine words of wit? The future cannot be seen, a possible revolution may well be the best scenario in the months/years ahead. Rapid deterioration of an already poor situation can change things significantly.
I mentioned in another thread that I felt one day I would be reading about you in a not so favorable light. #The more you post, the more you convince me I was right.
Are you a betting man? I may well make the big time, but as to whether I am in a not so favorable light there will be up to the beholder.

BTW: I've got 6 months on you my brother.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,17:16)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:48)]Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 27 2005,16:45)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 26 2005,15:22)]We have our problems, but revolution is not going to solve any of them.
Divine words of wit? The future cannot be seen, a possible revolution may well be the best scenario in the months/years ahead. Rapid deterioration of an already poor situation can change things significantly.
I mentioned in another thread that I felt one day I would be reading about you in a not so favorable light. #The more you post, the more you convince me I was right.
Are you a betting man? I may well make the big time, but as to whether I am in a not so favorable light there will be up to the beholder.

BTW: I've got 6 months on you my brother.
Six months on me in terms of what?

I'm sorry, but I just think you make the perfect candidate to be recruited by some extreme group.

You feel helpless to change your life, the environment around you, and the federal government. You seem hopeless in all areas.

Seriously, find something good about what is going on in your life and expand it somehow.

[kc7jty]

Edad....age my good man age. Some of us were born to bitch and it makes us feel great doing it. I'm having a blast rubbing the noses of all the stalwart farts in their own doodoo.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 28 2005,12:30)]Edad....age my good man age. Some of us were born to bitch and it makes us feel great doing it. I'm having a blast rubbing the noses of all the stalwart farts in their own doodoo.
Your perceptions are extremely abnormal.

[kc7jty]

And you seem to be on QRZ all the live long day.
I pride myself in being abnormal. My take on normal people is very unflattering.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 28 2005,13:00)]And you seem to be on QRZ all the live long day.
I pride myself in being abnormal. My take on normal people is very unflattering.
I guess that is one of the advantages of owning your own business. You can stay on qrz all day if you choose to do so without a cut in pay.

There is nothing wrong with being abnormal. It just depends on whether you are constructive or destructive.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 28 2005,10:56)]Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 28 2005,12:30)]Edad....age my good man age. Some of us were born to bitch and it makes us feel great doing it. I'm having a blast rubbing the noses of all the stalwart farts in their own doodoo.
Your perceptions are extremely abnormal.
Hey fapazoid! This is the most undeniably normal thing he is doing. It flows from the earliest dawn of civilization when nubian slave girls spit on roast antelope before it was served to the Pharoes.

[kc7jty]

Nubian slave girls!!?? Thats politically incorect isn't it? See...even way back then there were problems.