Marines find insurgent torture house

[KG4ZQZ]

from:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005....&emc=th (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/international/middleeast/19torture.html?th&emc=th)

interesting snippet:

..."the 2005 First Edition of 'The Principles of Jihadist Philosophy,' by Abdel Rahman al-Ali. Its chapters included "How to Select the Best Hostage," and "The Legitimacy of Cutting the Infidels' Heads.""

[al2i]

"Infidel" is a term that is really getting on my nerves.

Thanks for the link.

73,
Dave/al2i

[K8YS]

I apolise for calling these murderous, foreign assassins, insane death wish terrorists, "insurgents".

The news morons needs to start calling these assassins what they are and stop "sugar coating" it.

[KC2KFC]

And some people think Gitmo is bad.

[K0RGR]

I hate to ask a question like this, but do you expect these folks to follow the Geneva Convention?

As I recall, we consider them to be 'enemy combatants' and therefore, they are not eligible for the Geneva Convention. I doubt that they teach them about the Geneva Convention in the terrorist training camps.

What are the remedies here? We can be just as ruthless and brutal as they are, or as Saddam's thugs were. That should win us the Nobel Peace Prize, not to mention making the other several billion Muslims in the world trust, respect, and love us.

We could nuke 'em, I suppose, but somebody might notice all those corpses rotting in the desert eventually, and ask questions.

How do you propose that we win the 'hearts and minds' of these people? The military answer is always to grab them by the gonads. That doesn't seem to be working entirely well at the moment.
Any other suggestions?

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ June 19 2005,15:47)]I apolise for calling these murderous, foreign assassins, insane death wish terrorists, #"insurgents".

The news morons needs to start calling these assassins what they are and stop "sugar coating" it.
The "news morons" also need to get a clue.

[KC2KFC]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ June 19 2005,20:31)]I hate to ask a question like this, but do you expect these folks to follow the Geneva Convention?

As I recall, we consider them to be 'enemy combatants' and therefore, they are not eligible for the Geneva Convention. I doubt that they teach them about the Geneva Convention in the terrorist training camps.

What are the remedies here? We can be just as ruthless and brutal as they are, or as Saddam's thugs were. That should win us the Nobel Peace Prize, not to mention making the other several billion Muslims in the world trust, respect, and love us.

We could nuke 'em, I suppose, but somebody might notice all those corpses rotting in the desert eventually, and ask questions.

How do you propose that we win the 'hearts and minds' of these people? The military answer is always to grab them by the gonads. That doesn't seem to be working entirely well at the moment.
Any other suggestions?
I don't expect them to follow the Geneva Convention at all. I also don't expect members of our government to equate Guantanamo to the insurgents and their torture rooms.

Several times I've seen statistics bandied about on here about the percentages of followers of Islam who are non-violent vs violent. Some say 99% of followers of Islam are peaceful. Okay, I'll buy that. So if that is the case, then only 1% of the population of Muslims of Iraq is part of the insurgency. That tells me we are winning the hearts and minds of the majority of the Iraqi people. Of course I could find some other statistics and argue just the opposite.

I get first hand reports from friends, who are serving in the Tikrit area, weekly. These are people I've worked with in the past so they have no reason to sugar coat anything for me. They tell me of the highs and lows of their daily jobs. They talk about the Iraqi people and how they truly want representative government. They tell me of people thanking them for being over there to help them build schools, build hospitals, repair power stations, build water delivery systems. I could go on, but I think you get the point. They also tell me about cleaning up after bombings and ambushes and trying to quell the insurgency. How frustrating it is to watch CNN and not see the good things the soldiers are doing there.

Has the administration made mistakes? Has the military leadership made mistakes? Have the officers and NCOs on the ground made mistakes? Have the soldiers and marines themselves made mistakes? The answer to all of these questions is yes. They're human and not perfect.

I guess my point is there is a lot of good going on over there, but you don't hear that much about it because it doesn't sell advertising time. The good news stories are not what the media wants to sell to advertisers. Do I sound cynical? Perhaps, but lets face it, the media is in the business of making money, just like those big mean nasty auto, oil, financial corporations. Of course it is difficult for the media to get the interviews of the terrorists as well.

So my questions are. What should we do with the real terrorists? Should we coddle them? Should we let them go so they can go back kill more Americans? If we should close the facility at Guantanamo what should we do with captured terrorists? Do they have rights under our constitution? Do they deserve due process? Do they even believe in due process? They don't provide due process to their prisoners.

I don't think there is any one right answer. Man is combative by nature, just look at some of the political discussions on this board.

My solution for Iraq is continue on the course we are on. If you follow the latest news coming out of there, you see the Iraqi forces are taking on more and more of the responsibility for their security. You hear more and more about joint U.S./Iraqi operations. You see the Iraqi military and police taking more and more of the casualties and fewer U.S. servicemen and women. Although that doesn't make it any easier for the family and friends of servicemen. We just buried a friend last week and I can tell you it is very painful.

It is going to take time for this to work out. I think some people think it should be like a two hour Arnold movie where the bad guys are all identified in the first hour and then are decimated in the second hour then everbody gets to go home and none of the good guys are killed.

It just doesn't work that way.

[n0ov]

Quote[/b] (KC2KFC @ June 18 2005,17:07)]And some people think Gitmo is bad.
Fact is Gitmo is a country club compared to the alternatives.

Only bad thing for them is they don't have freedom.............to kill others

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (KC2KFC @ June 20 2005,07:49)]My solution for Iraq is continue on the course we are on. If you follow the latest news coming out of there, you see the Iraqi forces are taking on more and more of the responsibility for their security. You hear more and more about joint U.S./Iraqi operations. You see the Iraqi military and police taking more and more of the casualties and fewer U.S. servicemen and women. Although that doesn't make it any easier for the family and friends of servicemen. We just buried a friend last week and I can tell you it is very painful.

It is going to take time for this to work out. I think some people think it should be like a two hour Arnold movie where the bad guys are all identified in the first hour and then are decimated in the second hour then everbody gets to go home and none of the good guys are killed.

It just doesn't work that way.
I totally agree. Not only that we are winning. Do you know how I know? The insurgents are attacking more Iraquis than anything else. They are trying to put fear into anyone that will represent the new government. That my friends, is a last ditch effort.

[n9vo]

Seems you have to register to view the article. I guess no harm in that but personally I dont like having to register for things I really dont need.

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (n9vo @ June 20 2005,15:35)]Seems you have to register to view the article. I guess no harm in that but personally I dont like having to register for things I really dont need.
You don't. Go here first:

www.bugmenot.com (http://www.bugmenot.com)

[KW4MW]

Or Here: #http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/19/news/torture.php

Did you notice there hasn't been a peep out of the anti-Gitmo crowd deploring the brutal tortures reported in this article?

Give them time though - as soon as they can figure out how to spin this story so as to blame Bush we will get the full blast of their rants.

[KC2KFC]

I was really hoping some of them would answer my questions and provide their solutions.

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ June 20 2005,21:27)]Give them time though - as soon as they can figure out how to spin this story so as to blame Bush we will get the full blast of their rants.
I guess none of the democratic "spin sites" have given them their course of action yet. Of course, it does take awhile for the european socialists to agree on anything.

[KC2KFC]

Here is a rather interesting article that contains a poll concerning public opinion on the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo.

Republicans slam Pelosi's comments as 'demoralizing' (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050623-121633-8873r.htm)