View Full Version : Thread Removed?
W8EFA
06-17-2005, 02:11 AM
Perhaps some of you saw it - a thread somewhat tongue in cheek slamming Jews? Look's like it was removed and probably rightfully so.
However how can other threads continue slamming Muslims. YS was posting how he is planning on taking the Koran and using it to start his grill on Independence day. Nothing tongue in cheek about that, just pure unadulterated hate speech.
Is it just me or is this an incredible double standard?
I think it is safe to burn holy books, just not entire ethnic groups.
However, I am not a moderator, and I secretly fear dachshunds, fear is but a step from hate, and hate is but a step from genocide.
My Death to Dachshund movement is nearing its end anyway, because the puppies are so cute.
You better look a little harder. the thread in which you speak is still here. No one has deleted it.
Since you are such an expert on Muslims, I would expect you to know how to spell Qur'an the proper way........It's not Koran, as you spelled it.
And the people who brought down the WTC were of what religion?
Tom kcØw
W8EFA
06-17-2005, 02:53 AM
Quote[/b] (kc0w @ June 16 2005,19:38)]You better look a little harder. the thread in which you speak is still here. No one has deleted it.
Since you are such an expert on Muslims, I would expect you to know how to spell Qur'an the proper way........It's not Koran, as you spelled it.
And the people who brought down the WTC were of what religion?
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #Tom kcØw
No, I think you are talking about another thread.
Actually someone PM's me and said the poster himself probably removed it. #Don't know if that is even possible or that is what happened, if so my apologies for questioning the moderators.
In regards to your comment's you make my point, another slam prejiducing Millions of people for the actions of a few Extremists.
And the people that Brought down the Oklahoma City building were of what religion?
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 02:58 AM
As far as I can tell the thread was removed. How can you call that thread tongue and cheek? There was nothing tongue and cheek about it whatsoever.
N0KLT
06-17-2005, 02:59 AM
The thread was gone for awhile. Earlier when I clicked on the thread, it said something about missing data or something. I forget the message but when I got out of the area and came back again in a little bit the whole thread was gone. Now there are 2 threads, the original and another idential subject but with no replies the last time I saw it a few minutes ago. Looks like Ikonboard is acting up again.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 03:01 AM
No the other thread was called "great idea for a tv show"
W5HTW
06-17-2005, 03:09 AM
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,19:53)]And the people that Brought down the Oklahoma City building were of what religion?
Fringe Lunatic?
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 03:24 AM
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,21:11)]However how can other threads continue slamming Muslims. #YS was posting how he is planning on taking the Koran and using it to start his grill on Independence day. #Nothing #tongue in cheek about that, #just pure unadulterated hate speech.
Is it just me or is this an incredible double standard?
I don't know of any people of the Jewish faith that have a war against America. I don't know anyone of the Jewish faith that flew two airplanes into the wtc and killed 3000 people. I don't know anyone of the Jewish faith that is currently imprisoned at Gitmo. I don't know anyone of the Jewish faith that are trying to kill americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. It doesn't look like a double standard to me.
W8EFA
06-17-2005, 03:25 AM
Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ June 16 2005,20:09)]Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,19:53)]And the people that Brought down the Oklahoma City building were of #what religion?
Fringe Lunatic?
Exactly, every religion has it's extremists. In the case of the Murrah bombing Mcveigh supposedly was angered over the Branch Davidians. We wouldn't blame Christians for it.
The Branch Davidians are a sect (in the sense of "splinter group") of the Seventh-Day Adventists movement. Theologically, the various Davidian groups, of which Branch Davidians is best known, are considered cults of Christianity.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 03:32 AM
EFA? How can you COMPARE someone slamming ALL JEWS with someone slamming terrorist prisioners at gitmo? Don't you think that just might be a stretch?
I really have a hard time getting a handle on this entire hating of Jews thing. Why is it so malignantly omnipresent in both Western and Middle Eastern societies? Do Jews breed Dachshunds?
73,
Dave/al2i
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 03:44 AM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,22:38)]I really have a hard time getting a handle on this entire hating of Jews thing. #Why is it so malignantly omnipresent in both Western and Middle Eastern societies? #Do Jews breed Dachshunds?
73,
#Dave/al2i
I don't know what it is, but it is as strong here as it is in Europe, which is pretty bad. It absolutely makes no sense. I think it has more to do with jealousy than anything else.
W8EFA
06-17-2005, 03:50 AM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,20:32)]EFA? #How can you COMPARE someone slamming ALL JEWS with someone slamming terrorist prisioners at gitmo? #Don't you think that just might be a stretch?
FAP You know as well as i do that there have been plenty of posts on here condemning Islam as a whole. Give me a break
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,20:25)]Exactly, every religion has it's extremists. In the case of the Murrah bombing Mcveigh supposedly was angered over the Branch Davidians. We wouldn't blame Christians for it.
I have heard the entire Christian religion blamed because of fringe group activities quite often.
Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
73,
Dave/al2i
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 03:52 AM
I once saw a figure of 20% of islam are extremists. They said it was a conservative estimate. It was on a news documentary, and I cannot remember which one.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 03:55 AM
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,22:50)]FAP You know as well as i do that there have been plenty of posts on here condemning Islam as a whole. Give me a break
I think you allow your hate for the war and George Bush to totally slant your view on every subject. That is not a slam, just an observation.
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,19:52)]I once saw a figure of 20% of islam are extremists. #They said it was a conservative estimate. #It was on a news documentary, and I cannot remember which one.
Oh, THAT'S scientific.
What bunch of garbage. Nice sourcing.
EFA is right. Islam is routinely slammed on this board as a whole with "facts" just like yours, FAP.
Get real.
Dave WX7B
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,19:55)]Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,22:50)]FAP You know as well as i do that there have been plenty of posts on here condemning Islam as a whole. Give me a break
I think you allow your hate for the war and George Bush to totally slant your view on every subject. #That is not a slam, just an observation.
Yes, it is a slam.
You guys routinely play the "hatred of W" card whenever you get backed into a corner or can't rationally explain this administration's policies.
Bush and the Republicans are routinely wrong. Diagreeing with policy is not "hate". What part of that don't you understand?
The majority of the mudslinging and political name-calling comes from the right on this board. Seems like that is more indicative of "hate" than saying the President's policies are misguided and wrong.
Reality check, FAP.
Dave WX7B
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,19:50)]Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. #Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? #I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
You've got absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion, yet you'll make a blanket indictment of a large portion of the world's population by presuming the assertion is fact.
Nice going. I see Bush's propaganda works. Send my regards to Fox "News".
Dave WX7B
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,19:50)]Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
You've got absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion, yet you'll make a blanket indictment of a large portion of the world's population by presuming the assertion is fact.
Nice going. I see Bush's propaganda works. Send my regards to Fox "News".
Dave WX7B
LOL! I was actually wondering which would be higher, American hatred for Islamics, or Islamic hatred for Americans.
Your characterization of me is so far off base that it brings quite a chuckle.
Assumptions, assumptions. Tsk, tsk.
73,
Dave/al2i
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,20:27)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,19:50)]Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. #Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? #I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
You've got absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion, yet you'll make a blanket indictment of a large portion of the world's population by presuming the assertion is fact.
Nice going. I see Bush's propaganda works. Send my regards to Fox "News".
Dave WX7B
LOL! #I was actually wondering which would be higher, American hatred for Islamics, or Islamic hatred for Americans. #
Your characterization of me is so far off base that it brings quite a chuckle.
Assumptions, assumptions. #Tsk, tsk.
73,
#Dave/al2i
Boring, AL2I.
This is at least the second time you've used the "you don't know me" argument when questioned.
The printed word doesn't lie. Maybe if you framed your argument better, it would portray what you are trying to convey.
Tsk, Tsk, yourself...
Dave WX7B
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,19:50)]Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
You've got absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion, yet you'll make a blanket indictment of a large portion of the world's population by presuming the assertion is fact.
Nice going. I see Bush's propaganda works. Send my regards to Fox "News".
Dave WX7B
Hmmmm... I didn't indict anyone, yet. Do Islamics breed dachshunds?
Let me get on my soapbox, because I am full of tolerance to the various different religions of the world. Being openly involved in Paganism, and understanding that so often people think Paganism involves worship of evil and the killing of life. When in reality Pagans are very keen on what is good, and very far from evil.
I do not support the bashing of any religion on here for any reason. Not all Muslims are terrorists, in fact many live in America and many love this country. Some living in this country may dislike our political leader, but as I have said all Americans, including myself, have a right to dislike the current president.
The events of 9/11 to not give people the right to have hate or to speak bad about the muslim people. There is no reason I can think of to speak bad about any religion regardless of who they are. There is a reason to speak poorly of certain people who choose to do evil in the name of a certain religion, but let that be no reflection of the religion itself. Being Pagan, I know that people who are involved in "Satantic Cults" call themselves Pagans.. in reality they are far from being Pagan.
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:34)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,20:27)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,19:50)]Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
You've got absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion, yet you'll make a blanket indictment of a large portion of the world's population by presuming the assertion is fact.
Nice going. I see Bush's propaganda works. Send my regards to Fox "News".
Dave WX7B
LOL! I was actually wondering which would be higher, American hatred for Islamics, or Islamic hatred for Americans.
Your characterization of me is so far off base that it brings quite a chuckle.
Assumptions, assumptions. Tsk, tsk.
73,
Dave/al2i
Boring, AL2I.
This is at least the second time you've used the "you don't know me" argument when questioned.
The printed word doesn't lie. Maybe if you framed your argument better, it would portray what you are trying to convey.
Tsk, Tsk, yourself...
Dave WX7B
I cannot help it if you see the world in a narrow, two-dimensional right-wing vs left-wing mindset. Why insist that I am a right-winger? I would vote for Gore in a heartbeat if given the chance again. I try to learn from my mistakes. I do make them you know. Do you?
wd0ct
06-17-2005, 04:50 AM
I read the original now deleted post. I thought it was done in a humorous way. What is wrong with goofing on jews? Why are jews so protected by political correctness when other people aren't?
Bitching about muslims is accepted policy on this forum as is whining about and condemning rednecks, brits, canadians, cbers, fat white people, and many other groups.
Quote[/b] (KD5OWO @ June 16 2005,21:40)]Let me get on my soapbox, because I am full of tolerance to the various different religions of the world. Being openly involved in Paganism, and understanding that so often people think Paganism involves worship of evil and the killing of life. When in reality Pagans are very keen on what is good, and very far from evil.
I do not support the bashing of any religion on here for any reason. Not all Muslims are terrorists, in fact many live in America and many love this country. Some living in this country may dislike our political leader, but as I have said all Americans, including myself, have a right to dislike the current president.
The events of 9/11 to not give people the right to have hate or to speak bad about the muslim people. There is no reason I can think of to speak bad about any religion regardless of who they are. There is a reason to speak poorly of certain people who choose to do evil in the name of a certain religion, but let that be no reflection of the religion itself. Being Pagan, I know that people who are involved in "Satantic Cults" call themselves Pagans.. in reality they are far from being Pagan.
Great. I come out of the closet on the whole dachshund thing, and now everybody wants out. Sheesh!
Where can I read about Paganism that gives the straight info?
73,
Dave/al2i
PS Are Pagans pro, or anti-dachshund?
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,20:45)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:34)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,20:27)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,19:50)]Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. #Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? #I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
You've got absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion, yet you'll make a blanket indictment of a large portion of the world's population by presuming the assertion is fact.
Nice going. I see Bush's propaganda works. Send my regards to Fox "News".
Dave WX7B
LOL! #I was actually wondering which would be higher, American hatred for Islamics, or Islamic hatred for Americans. #
Your characterization of me is so far off base that it brings quite a chuckle.
Assumptions, assumptions. #Tsk, tsk.
73,
#Dave/al2i
Boring, AL2I.
This is at least the second time you've used the "you don't know me" argument when questioned.
The printed word doesn't lie. Maybe if you framed your argument better, it would portray what you are trying to convey.
Tsk, Tsk, yourself...
Dave WX7B
I cannot help it if you see the world in a narrow, two-dimensional right-wing vs left-wing mindset. #Why insist that I am a right-winger? #I would vote for Gore in a heartbeat if given the chance again. #I try to learn from my mistakes. #I do make them you know. #Do you?
The country and world is what it is. Right now, we are as polarized a society as we have ever been since the Civil War.
All I can go by is what you post.
If you re-read my postings, you'll note that I said "Bush's propaganda worked", not that I called you a "right-winger". Big difference.
Same question to you, since you mentioned it. How do you know what I think or believe?
Oh, that's right. By what I post.
Dave WX7B
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 04:57 AM
Well this thread was started by comparing a hatred of all jews with some hatred for the prisoners in gitmo. I can honestly say, I have no problem with hating the people imprisoned at gitmo. They are there for a damn good reason. They WANT TO KILL YOU.
You can try to compare that to slamming Jews, but it doesn't compute with me. There is no similarity whatsoever.
Now I am going to bed. I hope one day that some of you will realize that patriotism is more important than friggin political views. You may disagree with the politics of the president, but when you place more importance on the terrorist prisoners at gitmo than you do on our soldiers, then it is time to take a break from politics. This was done in another thread, not this one.
The hatred you guys have for george bush is simply blinding you of what is important. I am sure I am not the only one that can see this.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 05:03 AM
Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ June 16 2005,23:50)]I read the original now deleted post. I thought it was done in a humorous way. What is wrong with goofing on jews? Why are jews so protected by political correctness when other people aren't?
Bitching about muslims is accepted policy on this forum as is whining about and condemning rednecks, brits, canadians, cbers, fat white people, and many other groups.
Really, please explain the humorous part. #Im really curious.
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,20:57)]Well this thread was started by comparing a hatred of all jews with some hatred for the prisoners in gitmo. #I can honestly say, I have no problem with hating the people imprisoned at gitmo. #They are there for a damn good reason. #They WANT TO KILL YOU. #
You can try to compare that to slamming Jews, but it doesn't compute with me. #There is no similarity whatsoever.
Now I am going to bed. #I hope one day that some of you will realize that patriotism is more important than friggin political views. #You may disagree with the politics of the president, but when you place more importance on the terrorist prisoners at gitmo than you do on our soldiers, then it is time to take a break from politics. #This was done in another thread, not this one. #
The hatred you guys have for george bush is simply blinding #you of what is important. #I am sure I am not the only one that can see this.
Blind patriotism doesn't fly with me, no matter what the issue. I'm not going to blindly support some stupid unnecessary foreign adventure solely based on "patriotism". What a complete bunch of bravo sierra.
You don't have any first hand knowledge of the prisoners in Gitmo, you're making a blanket indictment. Maybe they are all bad guys, but it doesn't give this administration the right to ignore the Geneva convention and torture people. This is NOT the American way. This has NOTHING to do with supporting prisoners over American soldiers. That's YOUR spin.
As the Bush hatred thing, read my previous post AGAIN. You are so off base on that, you aren't even in the same stadium or even in the same sport.
Dissent doesn't equal hatred. It's a boring smoke screen used by partisans who can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans of this criminal administration.
If you can't get a grip on these simple facts, maybe you should take a break from politics...
Dave WX7B
wd0ct
06-17-2005, 05:11 AM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,22:03)]Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ June 16 2005,23:50)]I read the original now deleted post. I thought it was done in a humorous way. What is wrong with goofing on jews? Why are jews so protected by political correctness when other people aren't?
Bitching about muslims is accepted policy on this forum as is whining about and condemning rednecks, brits, canadians, cbers, fat white people, and many other groups.
Really, please explain the humorous part. #Im really curious.
Go to bed now patriot. I know you have had a hard day typing all the propanganda you put on the forum.
I thought it was humorous. I don't have to splain myself to you.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 05:12 AM
Sorry, but dissent does equal hatred when you place more importance of our treatment of prisoners at gitmo over your own people. It truly is pathetic. It isn't justifiable under any circumstances although I know you will continue to try to justify it. I won't be around for that justification. Have a good night.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 05:15 AM
Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ June 17 2005,00:11)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,22:03)]Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ June 16 2005,23:50)]I read the original now deleted post. I thought it was done in a humorous way. What is wrong with goofing on jews? Why are jews so protected by political correctness when other people aren't?
Bitching about muslims is accepted policy on this forum as is whining about and condemning rednecks, brits, canadians, cbers, fat white people, and many other groups.
Really, please explain the humorous part. #Im really curious.
Go to bed now patriot. I know you have had a hard day typing all the propanganda you put on the forum.
I thought it was humorous. I don't have to splain myself to you.
Well apparently you have no clue why it was funny and you probably don't even remember anything about it. You were the one who made the statement in a public forum that the post was humorous. If you can't back up your statement, that is understandable.
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,21:12)]Sorry, but dissent does equal hatred when you place more importance of our treatment of prisoners at gitmo over your own people. #It truly is pathetic. # It isn't justifiable under any circumstances although I know you will continue to try to justify it. #I won't be around for that justification. #Have a good night.
You really don't get it. No justification, just reiteration of fact.
There is NO linkeage between the Gitmo prisoners and lesser treatment or not caring about our people. I'm not buying the "Islamic monolith" fable put out by this administration.
Speaking of that, where's Osama? Bush doesn't seem to be too interested in catching the alleged ring leader anymore. Maybe he served his purpose as "poster boy" and is/was irrelevant all along.
You show me where ANYONE ANYWHERE is saying we should place the Gitmo detainees above our people.
Running concentration camps and ignoring the Geneva Convention is NOT the American way, period, no matter who we're dealing with.
How hard is that for you to understand?
The only "pathetic" thing I see is Americans stooping to treating prisoners the same way others we have condemned have treated their prisoners in the past.
Dave WX7B
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 17 2005,04:54)]Quote[/b] (KD5OWO @ June 16 2005,21:40)]Let me get on my soapbox, because I am full of tolerance to the various different religions of the world. Being openly involved in Paganism, and understanding that so often people think Paganism involves worship of evil and the killing of life. When in reality Pagans are very keen on what is good, and very far from evil.
I do not support the bashing of any religion on here for any reason. Not all Muslims are terrorists, in fact many live in America and many love this country. Some living in this country may dislike our political leader, but as I have said all Americans, including myself, have a right to dislike the current president.
The events of 9/11 to not give people the right to have hate or to speak bad about the muslim people. There is no reason I can think of to speak bad about any religion regardless of who they are. There is a reason to speak poorly of certain people who choose to do evil in the name of a certain religion, but let that be no reflection of the religion itself. Being Pagan, I know that people who are involved in "Satantic Cults" call themselves Pagans.. in reality they are far from being Pagan.
Great. I come out of the closet on the whole dachshund thing, and now everybody wants out. Sheesh!
Where can I read about Paganism that gives the straight info?
73,
Dave/al2i
PS Are Pagans pro, or anti-dachshund?
I suspect there are some Pagans who dislike dachshund's. Assuming you are talking about the dog, since I am not sure what your obsession with dachshunds might be refering to.
As for a place to get straight facts. Perhaps everyone should visit www.religioustolerance.org
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:57)]If you re-read my postings, you'll note that I said "Bush's propaganda worked", not that I called you a "right-winger". Big difference.
Sorry. I apolize OM. I assumed wrong about what you were assuming about me.
Thank you BTW for recognizing that I am a mindless victim of Bush propaganda and not leaping to the wildly inaccurate assumption that I occasionally think for myself.
73,
Dave/al2i
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,21:25)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:57)]If you re-read my postings, you'll note that I said "Bush's propaganda worked", not that I called you a "right-winger". Big difference.
Sorry. #I apolize OM. #I assumed wrong about what you were assuming about me. #
Thank you BTW for recognizing that I am a mindless victim of Bush propaganda and not leaping to the wildly inaccurate assumption that I occasionally think for myself. #
73,
#Dave/al2i
Your posts speak for themselves...
BTW, when are we going to bury "apolize"? I'm not even sure how to pronounce that. "apple-eyes"? or "a-po-li-ze"?
It's QRZ grammar hall of fame candidate along with "your" for "you're"!
W8EFA
06-17-2005, 05:32 AM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,21:57)]Well this thread was started by comparing a hatred of all jews with some hatred for the prisoners in gitmo. #I can honestly say, I have no problem with hating the people imprisoned at gitmo. #They are there for a damn good reason. #They WANT TO KILL YOU. #
You can try to compare that to slamming Jews, but it doesn't compute with me. #There is no similarity whatsoever.
Now I am going to bed. #I hope one day that some of you will realize that patriotism is more important than friggin political views. #You may disagree with the politics of the president, but when you place more importance on the terrorist prisoners at gitmo than you do on our soldiers, then it is time to take a break from politics. #This was done in another thread, not this one. #
The hatred you guys have for george bush is simply blinding #you of what is important. #I am sure I am not the only one that can see this.
Well once again FAP it has nothing to do with Gitmo! Do you want me to copy all the Kill all the Muslims, fire up the quaran on the grill comments posted here? I really don't think I need to, you have seen them, you are just trying to skate around the issue at this point.
OH well here are just a few:
Quote[/b] ]Here's a newsflash for ya; "Islam" and "Muslim" ARE SYNONIMOUS WITH HATE.
Response to above statementQuote[/b] ]Dan, you are absolutly correct in your assessment...
and anotherQuote[/b] ]Dan
You hit the nail on the head
Here is an intelligent one
Quote[/b] ]I have to correct you on one point, its no longer a diaper on their head, the new PC correct term is " porta potti on their head",
And of course I already quoted the starting the independence day grill with the Quoran.
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,22:23)]The only "pathetic" thing I see is Americans stooping to treating prisoners the same way others we have condemned have treated their prisoners in the past.
The revelations of the last couple of years about the treatment of prisoners by uniformed Americans have wounded me deeply. I am very shaken that these events happened, because they are so inconceivable to me.
Maybe other folks are less affected by it, but I've felt a great emotional agitation and discomfiture from the images of sadistic GIs splashed through world media.
73,
Dave/al2i
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,22:31)]Your posts speak for themselves...
Thank you!
BTW, if you must put a label on me, I was actually a Libertarian Party operative for some time, but I dropped out from despairing that it was too hard for most people to get off of the left-right axis.
FWIW, dachshunds are not official enemies of libertarianism, and I am not, strickly speaking, an anti-dach####e. I believe that dachshund puppies may be removed at an early age from their parents, and through surgery, indoctrination, and the miracle of modern training, dachshunds may become productive, well-behaved pets.
73,
Dave/al2i
Quote[/b] (KD5OWO @ June 16 2005,22:23)]I suspect there are some Pagans who dislike dachshund's. Assuming you are talking about the dog, since I am not sure what your obsession with dachshunds might be refering to.
Terry Schiavo was bain dramaged, and much of her drain was physically gone. However, she did have more brains than your average dachshund, so I wish people would stop feeding those as well. Dachshunds are unable to respond to the sound of a human voice telling them to shut up, and their eyes do not notice a tracking gunbarrel.
73,
Dave/al2i
WA5KRP
06-17-2005, 06:35 AM
JTY's thread was a disingenuously disguised slam against Jews and I found it appalling. I've drawn my own conclusions about the motives behind his post. Fortunately the thread was axed.
WA5KRP
Texas
kc7flr
06-17-2005, 07:10 AM
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,19:53)]Quote[/b] (kc0w @ June 16 2005,19:38)]You better look a little harder. the thread in which you speak is still here. No one has deleted it.
Since you are such an expert on Muslims, I would expect you to know how to spell Qur'an the proper way........It's not Koran, as you spelled it.
And the people who brought down the WTC were of what religion?
Tom kcØw
No, I think you are talking about another thread.
Actually someone PM's me and said the poster himself probably removed it. Don't know if that is even possible or that is what happened, if so my apologies for questioning the moderators.
In regards to your comment's you make my point, another slam prejiducing Millions of people for the actions of a few Extremists.
And the people that Brought down the Oklahoma City building were of what religion?
Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans. And, FYI, McVeigh and crew weren't real Christians. No Christian would kill 168 innocent men women and children. So, your slam, although expected, is moot.
kc7flr
06-17-2005, 07:34 AM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,22:07)]As the Bush hatred thing, read my previous post AGAIN. You are so off base on that, you aren't even in the same stadium or even in the same sport.
Dissent doesn't equal hatred. It's a boring smoke screen used by partisans who can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans of this criminal administration.
If you can't get a grip on these simple facts, maybe you should take a break from politics...
Dave WX7B
Hmmm... lessee... You deny hating Bush -- you call it "dissent" -- then you call him a criminal. You don't have any evidence of this criminality, but you go with it anyway.
You are transparant, Dave, you wear your hatred for Bush as a badge of honor while denying it.
You then claim that it's all a smoke screen by "partisans" who "can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans [sic] of this criminal administration."
It would be nice if you could substantiate what criminal behavior the administartion is involved in. I have yet to get anything from people of your ilk that is based in reality.
You can return to your spit spewing rant now.
Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 17 2005,00:34)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,22:07)]As the Bush hatred thing, read my previous post AGAIN. You are so off base on that, you aren't even in the same stadium or even in the same sport.
Dissent doesn't equal hatred. It's a boring smoke screen used by partisans who can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans of this criminal administration.
If you can't get a grip on these simple facts, maybe you should take a break from politics...
Dave WX7B
Hmmm... lessee... You deny hating Bush -- you call it "dissent" -- then you call him a criminal. You don't have any evidence of this criminality, but you go with it anyway.
You are transparant, Dave, you wear your hatred for Bush as a badge of honor while denying it.
You then claim that it's all a smoke screen by "partisans" who "can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans [sic] of this criminal administration."
It would be nice if you could substantiate what criminal behavior the administartion is involved in. I have yet to get anything from people of your ilk that is based in reality.
You can return to your spit spewing rant now.
Clinton was a criminal, did lie to us all, and did get impeached...
FWIW, Bush doesn't seem to have done anything criminal yet, but there is something about power that corrupts, and the phrase "criminally stupid" leaps to mind everytime I think about Osama sitting in Iran while the Mullahs work on nuclear power and we use up thousands of youth and squander a fortune in Iraq for no security at all.
73,
Dave/al2i
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 17 2005,00:46)]FWIW, Bush doesn't seem to have done anything criminal yet, but there is something about power that corrupts, and the phrase "criminally stupid" leaps to mind everytime I think about Osama sitting in Iran while the Mullahs work on nuclear power and we use up thousands of youth and squander a fortune in Iraq for no security at all.
Looking at my rant, I must say, for full disclosure, that Leonard Peikoff suggested that we attack Iran immediately after Sept. 11, and I thought he was over-reacting. Later, when Bush had his showdown with Saddam, I thought it was necessary to take out the possibility of nuclear weapons falling into terrorist hands, and I supported Bush.
I believed that nuclear weapons would fall into the hands of terrorists if we did not invade Iraq. I was wrong, and the French, who I was quite angry with, were right.
73,
Dave/al2i
wd0ct
06-17-2005, 09:06 AM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,22:15)]Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ June 17 2005,00:11)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,22:03)]Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ June 16 2005,23:50)]I read the original now deleted post. I thought it was done in a humorous way. What is wrong with goofing on jews? Why are jews so protected by political correctness when other people aren't?
Bitching about muslims is accepted policy on this forum as is whining about and condemning rednecks, brits, canadians, cbers, fat white people, and many other groups.
Really, please explain the humorous part. #Im really curious.
Go to bed now patriot. I know you have had a hard day typing all the propanganda you put on the forum.
I thought it was humorous. I don't have to splain myself to you.
Well apparently you have no clue why it was funny and you probably don't even remember anything about it. #You were the one who made the statement in a public forum that the post was humorous. #If you can't back up your statement, that is understandable.
Sigh. Is my post not clear enough for you?
Why would I try to splain something to someone that equates dissent with hatred? It would be a useless exercise.
Quote[/b] ]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans. And, FYI, McVeigh and crew weren't real Christians. No Christian would kill 168 innocent men women and children. So, your slam, although expected, is moot.
What realistic knowledge do you have about the Muslim religion to say that "real Muslims" hate America and want to kill us. It is extreme muslims who do those things. I have heard muslims before on the radio saying that those who did 9/11 were not real muslims. So umm... The Branch Davidians are a sect of the Christian religion. I don't blame all Branch Davidians, or Christians in general. I blame those who did the bombing.
Please show me documentation that supports the claim that the people involved with the Oklahoma City Bombing are in contact with terrorists. This is news to me.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 12:55 PM
Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ June 17 2005,04:06)]Sigh. Is my post not clear enough for you?
Why would I try to splain something to someone that equates dissent with hatred? It would be a useless exercise.
Yes, your post is VERY clear to me. #You made a comment that the post was humorous, and when I called you on it, you couldn't back it up. #Yep, that's clear to me. #I think it was also clear to the QRZ moderators. #You don't actually believe they pulled the thread because they didn't want their posters to have a "good laugh" now do you?
kf6rdn
06-17-2005, 01:30 PM
Quote[/b] (KD5OWO @ June 16 2005,22:23)]I suspect there are some Pagans who dislike dachshund's. #Assuming you are talking about the dog, since I am not sure what your obsession with dachshunds might be refering to.
As for a place to get straight facts. #Perhaps everyone should visit www.religioustolerance.org
I doubt it, most pagans I know are actually Wiccans, who revere ALL life..
His "obsession" is, I believe merely tongue and cheek.
As to religious tolerance, I read up on Islam during the first gulf war, it didnt seem too terrible, belief in a 1 God, (Allah) prophets, etc. Nothing too terrible. Though I havent read the actual Quran, or anything from Muhammad so I know I am missing alot.
People I know that are Muslims may have a few strange (to me) eating habits http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif but otherwise have been good people. However it does seem to breed a more extremist view on things, with their easy out of "jihad".
Maybe the people that are extremist like that would find a way to be extremist of they were of another religion, much like someone would be suicidal whether or not they ever listened to "Ozzy" or "Marilynn".
And I rather like dachsunds, they are cute in a sort of "I accidently ran into a telephone pole" way.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 01:36 PM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 17 2005,00:23)]The only "pathetic" thing I see is Americans stooping to treating prisoners the same way others we have condemned have treated their prisoners in the past.
Dave WX7B
We are at war. #It is not the usual type of war, but nevertheless we are at war. #We are at war with people who are not from one specific country. #They ARE of one specific religion. #It is the ONLY way we can characterize them as a group, because they primarily come from about 10 countries. We are not at war with people of the Jewish faith. #In fact, they make up a very important part of this country. # #
If you were old enough during World War II, and there was an internet, would you be posting about how we should not hate the Germans and Japananese while they were killing our young men? #Would you be more concerned with the German prisoners of war, or your own countryman. #Based on what I have seen by your posts, if you didn't like Roosevelt, you would be more concerned with the treatment of the enemy.
You are concerned with prisoner rights. #Where is your concern for the captives who get their heads chopped off on television? #No, you are more worried what some people do with a muslim bible. #For some strange reason, I would think getting your head chopped off is more serious, but that's only an opinion. #Perhaps you can do a study on that and see which seems more important to the families of the injured.
KE7DFP
06-17-2005, 05:33 PM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,21:16)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,19:50)]Actually, it seems that a majority of the Islamic people in some countries hate Americans, not just some minority extremist groups. #Have there been polls taken to indicate how widespread the Islamic hatred of America really is? #I'm guessing it is HUGE, but I don't have hard data to back that up.
You've got absolutely NO evidence to support your assertion, yet you'll make a blanket indictment of a large portion of the world's population by presuming the assertion is fact.
Nice going. I see Bush's propaganda works. Send my regards to Fox "News".
Dave WX7B
Are you living in the twilight Zone? #Have you got a little #antiseptic bubble around you in Sonoma County? (Never mind, I got the answer already) The whole region is permeated with hate against us. #Largely because there would #be no Israel if the U.S. hadn't put Israel on the map. #If New York Jews hadn't put Israel on the map, to be more precise. #So this subject's Taboo? #Should we all just do the Ostrich dance. #That #country leaches us dry, and we pay for their sins. #How many times have we caught them spying on us, or selling arms to our enemies? #They didn't get the animousity of those they live around because they've been such good neighbors. #This isn't some irrational hate thing. #It's simply a fact. #Like the immigration issue, no politician dares touch it, and the reason for that is the immense influence of the Jewish lobby. # Now, that said, this does not excuse the predominant animousity against us, nor justify attacking us. If you start a war against us, it will most likely be a #very bad decision, and not in your countries interest. #The US should put her interests first, and quite being manipulated by foriegn powers like Israel. #How many Israeli citizens have dual citizenship in the US? #There is massive support among the ignorant masses in the Islamic world, and the enemy is an Islamic one. #The very war itself is, by THEIR definition, a religious one. #So we're not going to call them an anomaly like you want us to call #Illegal, #Criminal, Aliens "green card challenged". # #I'm not advocating dumping Israel as an ally at this point, we're stuck with them #now. #But how fortuitious for the Israelis. #You think there wasn't massive # influence peddling to position Israel where she sits right now in the world mosiac? #I say, crush the Islamics who fight or support those who fight us, lay the law down with Israel. #Not one more cent or defense backing until you give half of their country back, equal representation as in Post Apartheid So. Africa, and no more dual citizenship or influence peddling on behalf of a foriegn power. #Before anyone makes a ridiculous call of the "race card" let me just say those days are over, liberals can no longer slither away like little snakes with that bluff. #Besides, my sister married a Jewish man and I now have half a dozen nieces and nephews , whom I love, who arew 1/2 jewish. # Well, so much more to say on this, but I am going now before I start to flame. #We are fighting a war with Islam, not 20 people involved in 911 and another 500 already in Gitmo. Give my compliments to the New York Times
KA8NCR
06-17-2005, 05:40 PM
There isn't a double standard here, it's whatever the whim of QRZ and company so desire. They're free to do whatever they like and we're all free to leave if we don't like it.
W7DJM
06-17-2005, 05:44 PM
I can't believe that you people are so worked up over a thread that was and should have been removed.
KA8NCR
06-17-2005, 05:47 PM
Quote[/b] ]
Are you living in the twilight Zone? Have you got a little antiseptic bubble around you in Sonoma County? (Never mind, I got the answer already) The whole region is permeated with hate against us. Largely because there would be no Israel if the U.S. hadn't put Israel on the map.
Bzzzzt. I'm sorry, the correct answer is "What is the British Mandate for Palestine?"
KE7DFP
06-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 16 2005,22:23)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,21:12)]Sorry, but dissent does equal hatred when you place more importance of our treatment of prisoners at gitmo over your own people. #It truly is pathetic. # It isn't justifiable under any circumstances although I know you will continue to try to justify it. #I won't be around for that justification. #Have a good night.
You really don't get it. No justification, just reiteration of fact.
.
Speaking of that, where's Osama? #
.
Running concentration camps and ignoring the Geneva Convention is NOT the American way, period, no matter who we're dealing with.
How hard is that for you to understand?
The only "pathetic" thing I see is Americans stooping to treating prisoners the same way others we have condemned have treated their prisoners in the past.
Dave WX7B
Osama is in Iran right now. Don' not worry, he will be taken care off with an airstrike from our new tactical fighter/bomber, along witha few power plants. # #Concentration camps? Do you know what a concentration camp is? #Please look up the definition. #To qualiy for #Gulag or concentration camp you have to at least have 1) Forced haRD LABOR #2) STARVASTION LEVEL DIET. #These cutthroats live the life of a fat Buhdahist monk, puncuated with the occasional oral exam. # By the way, didn't the Times admit this week that the whole Gitmo Quran flushed down the toilet story was a lie? #Kind of makes you wonder what their motivation is, and why would they have to lie to achieve a point. # Can you say "Fabricated Agenda" # #We've seen this many times before. the rag running a screen play for the Dmocrats agendas. ?
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 06:01 PM
Chronology of how Israel was formed:
May 17, 1939: British White Paper on Palestine
May 25, 1939: Senator Harry S. Truman inserts in the Congressional Record strong criticism of the British White Paper on Palestine, saying it is a dishonorable repudiation by Britain of her obligations.
August 24, 1945: Loy Henderson, director of the State Department's Near East Agency, writes to Secretary of State James Byrnes that the United States would lose its moral prestige in the Middle East if it supported Jewish aspirations in Palestine.
August 24, 1945: The report of the Intergovernment Committee on Refugees, called the Harrison Report, is presented to President Truman. The report is very critical of the treatment by Allied forces of refugees, particularly Jewish refugees, in Germany.
August 31, 1945: President Truman writes British Prime Minister Clement Attlee, citing the Harrison Report and urging Attlee to allow a reasonable number of Europe's Jews to emigrate to Palestine.
October 22, 1945: Senators Robert Wagner of New York and Robert Taft of Ohio introduce a resolution expressing support for a Jewish state in Palestine.
November 13, 1945: The British government announces the formation of an Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry to investigate Britain's handling of the Palestine situation. The committee begins work on January 4, 1946.
November 29, 1945: At a press conference, President Truman expresses opposition to the Taft-Wagner resolution. He says he wants to await and consider the report of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry.
April 20, 1946: The Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry submits its report, which recommends that Britain immediately authorize the admission of 100,000 Jews into Palestine.
May 8, 1946: President Truman writes to Prime Minister Attlee, citing the report of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, and expressing the hope that Britain would begin lifting the barriers to Jewish immigration to Palestine.
June 21, 1946: A Joint Chiefs of Staff memorandum to the State-War-Navy Coordinating Committee warns that if the United States uses armed force to support the implementation of the recommendations of the report of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, the Soviet Union might be able to increase its power and influence in the Middle East, and United States access to Middle East oil could be jeopardized.
September 24, 1946: Counsel to the President Clark Clifford writes to the President to warn that the Soviet Union wishes to achieve complete economic, military and political domination in the Middle East. Toward this end, Clifford argues, they will encourage the emigration of Jews from Europe into Palestine and at the same time denounce British and American policies toward Palestine and inflame the Arabs against these policies.
October 4, 1946: On the eve of Yom Kippur, President Truman issues a statement indicating United States support for the creation of a "viable Jewish state."
October 23, 1946: Loy Henderson, director of the State Department's Near East Agency, warns that the immigration of Jewish Communists into Palestine will increase Soviet influence there.
October 28, 1946: President Truman writes to King Saud of Saudi Arabia, informing the king that he believes "that a national home for the Jewish people should be established in Palestine."
1947-48: The White House receives 48,600 telegrams, 790,575 cards, and 81,200 other pieces of mail on the subject of Palestine.
February 7, 1947: The British government announces that it will terminate its mandate for Palestine.
February 14, 1947: The British government announces that it will refer the problem of the future of Palestine to the United Nations.
April 2, 1947: The British Government submits to the General Assembly of the United Nations an account of its administration of Palestine under the League of Nations mandate, and asks the General Assembly to make recommendations regarding the future government of Palestine.
May 13, 1947: The United Nations General Assembly appoints an eleven nation Special Committee on Palestine to study the Palestine problem and report by September 1947.
August 31, 1947: The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine issues its report, which recommends unanimously (all 11 member states voting in favor) that Great Britain terminate their mandate for Palestine and grant it independence at the earliest possible date; and which also recommends by majority vote (7 of the member nations voting in favor) that Palestine be partitioned into Jewish and Arab states.
September 17, 1947: Secretary of State George Marshall, in an address to the United Nations, indicates that the United States is reluctant to endorse the partition of Palestine.
September 22, 1947: Loy Henderson, director the State Department's Near East Agency, addresses a memorandum to Secretary of State George Marshall in which he argues against United States' advocacy of the United Nations proposal to partition Palestine.
October 10, 1947: The Joint Chiefs of Staff argue in a memorandum entitled "The Problem of Palestine" that the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states would enable the Soviet Union to replace the United States and Great Britain in the region and would endanger United States access to Middle East oil.
October 11, 1947: Herschel Johnson, United States deputy representative on the United Nations Security Council, announces United States support for the partition plan of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine.
October 17, 1947: President Truman writes to Senator Claude Pepper: "I received about 35,000 pieces of mail and propaganda from the Jews in this country while this matter [the issue of the partition of Palestine, which was being considered by the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine from May 13, 1947 to August 31, 1947] was pending. I put it all in a pile and struck a match to it -- I never looked at a single one of the letters because I felt the United Nations Committee [United Nations Special Committee on Palestine] was acting in a judicial capacity and should not be interfered with."
Ca. November 1947: A subcommittee of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine establishes a timetable for British withdrawal from Palestine.
November 19, 1947: Chaim Weizmann meets with President Truman and argues that the Negev region has great importance to the future Jewish state.
November 24, 1947: Secretary of State George Marshall writes to Under Secretary of State Robert Lovett to inform him that British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin had told him that British intelligence indicated that Jewish groups moving illegally from the Balkan states to Palestine included many Communists.
November 29, 1947: The United Nations General Assembly approves the partition plan for Palestine put forward by the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine. The 1947 UN Partition divided the area into three entities: a Jewish state, an Arab state, and an international zone around Jerusalem.
December 2, 1947: President Truman writes to former Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr., encouraging him to tell his Jewish friends that it is time for restraint and caution. "The vote in the U.N.," Truman wrote, "is only the beginning and the Jews must now display tolerance and consideration for the other people in Palestine with whom they will necessarily have to be neighbors."
December 5, 1947: Secretary of State George Marshall announces that the State Department is imposing an embargo on all shipments of arms to the Middle East.
December 12, 1947: President Truman writes to Chaim Weizmann, president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization, that it is essential that restraint and tolerance be exercised by all parties if a peaceful settlement is to be reached in the Middle East.
February 4, 1948: Chaim Wiezmann, president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization, arrives in New York.
February 12, 1948: Secretary of Defense James Forrestal says at a meeting of the National Security Council that any serious attempt to implement partition in Palestine would set in motion events that would result in at least a partial mobilization of United States armed forces.
February 19, 1948: Secretary of State George Marshall says at a press conference, when asked if the United States would continue to support partition, that the "whole Palestine thing," was under "constant consideration."
February 21, 1948: Eddie Jacobson, a longtime and close personal friend of President Truman, sends atelegram to Truman, asking him to meet with Chaim Weizmann, the president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization.
February 22, 1948: President Truman instructs Secretary of State George Marshall that while he approves in principle a draft prepared by the State Department of a position paper which mentions as a possible contingency a United Nations trusteeship for Palestine, he does not want anything presented to the United Nations Security Council that could be interpreted as a change from the position in favor of partition that the United States announced in the General Assembly on November 29, 1947. He further instructs Marshall to send him for review the final draft of the remarks that Warren Austin, the United States representative to the United Nations, is to give before the Security Council on March 19, 1948.
February 27, 1948: President Truman writes to his friend Eddie Jacobson, refusing to meet with Chaim Weizmann, the president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization.
March 8, 1948: Counsel to the President Clark Clifford writes to President Truman, in a memorandum entitled "United States Policy with Regard to Palestine," that Truman's actions in support of partition are "in complete conformity with the settled policy of the United States."
March 9, 1948: Secretary of State George Marshall instructs Warren Austin, United States representative to the United Nations, that if a United Nations special assembly on Palestine were convened, the United States would support a United Nations trusteeship for Palestine.
March 12, 1948: The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine reports that "present indications point to the inescapable conclusion that when the [British] mandate is terminated, Palestine is likely to suffer severely from administrative chaos and widespread strife and bloodshed."
March 13, 1948: President Truman's friend Eddie Jacobson walks into the White House without an appointment and pleads with Truman to meet with Chaim Weizmann, the president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization. Truman responds: "You win, you baldheaded son-of-a-bitch. I will see him."
March 18, 1948: President Truman meets with Chaim Weizmann, the president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization. Truman says he wishes to see justice done in Palestine without bloodshed, and that if the Jewish state were declared and the United Nations remained stalled in its attempt to establish a temporary trusteeship over Palestine, the United States would recognize the new state immediately.
March 18, 1948: The United Nations Special Commission on Palestine reports to the United Nations Security Council that it has failed to arrange any compromise between Jews and Arabs, and it recommends that the United Nations undertake a temporary trusteeship for Palestine in order to restore peace.
March 19, 1948: United States representative to the United Nations Warren Austin announces to the United Nations Security Council that the United States position is that the partition of Palestine is no longer a viable option.
March 20, 1948: Secretary of State George Marshall announces that the United States will seek to work within the United Nations to bring a peaceful settlement to Palestine, and that the proposal for a temporary United Nations trusteeship for Palestine is the only idea presently being considered that will allow the United Nations to address the difficult situation in Palestine.
March 21, 1948: President Truman writes in his diary regarding the confusion caused by the State Department's handling of the trusteeship issue: "I spend the day trying to right what has happened. No luck. Marshall makes a statement. Doesn't help a bit."
March 21, 1948: President Truman writes to his sister Mary Jane Truman that the "striped pants conspirators" in the State Department had "completely balled up the Palestine situation." But, he writes, "it may work out anyway in spite of them."
March 22, 1948: President Truman writes to his brother Vivian Truman regarding Palestine: "I think the proper thing to do, and the thing I have been doing, is to do what I think is right and let them all go to hell."
March 25, 1948: President Truman says at a press conference that a United Nations trusteeship for Palestine would be only a temporary measure, intended to establish the peaceful conditions that would be the essential foundation for a final political settlement. He says that trusteeship is not a substitute for partition.
April 11, 1948: President Truman's friend Eddie Jacobson enters the White House unnoticed by the East Gate and meets with Truman. Jacobson recorded of this meeting: "He reaffirmed, very strongly, the promises he had made to Dr. Weizmann and to me; and he gave me permission to tell Dr. Weizmann so, which I did. It was at this meeting that I also discussed with the President the vital matter of recognizing the new state, and to this he agreed with a whole heart."
May 12, 1948: President Truman meets in the Oval Office with Secretary of State George Marshall, Under Secretary of State Robert Lovett, Counsel to the President Clark Clifford and several others to discuss the Palestine situation. Clifford argues in favor of recognizing the new Jewish state in accordance with the United Nations resolution of November 29, 1947. Marshall opposes Clifford's arguments, and contends they are based on domestic political considerations. He says that if Truman follows Clifford's advice and recognizes the Jewish state, then he (Marshall) would vote against Truman in the election. Truman does not clearly state his views in the meeting.
May 12, 13, and 14, 1948: Counsel to the President Clark Clifford and Under Secretary of State Robert Lovett discuss the different views held in the White House and the State Department regarding whether the United States should recognize the Jewish state. Lovett reports to Clifford on May 14 that Marshall will neither support nor oppose Truman's plan to recognize the Jewish state, that he will stay out of the entire matter.
May 13, 1948: Chaim Weizmann, president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the World Zionist Organization, writes to President Truman: "I deeply hope that the United States, which under your leadership has done so much to find a just solution [to the Palestine situation], will promptly recognize the Provisional Government of the new Jewish state. The world, I think, would regard it as especially appropriate that the greatest living democracy should be the first to welcome the newest into the family of nations."
May 14, 1948: late morning eastern standard time (late afternoon in Palestine): David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, reads a "Declaration of Independence," which proclaims the existence of a Jewish state called Israel beginning on May 15, 1948, at 12:00 midnight Palestine time (6:00 p.m., May 14, 1948,eastern standard time).
May 14, 1948, 6 p.m. eastern standard time (12:00 midnight in Palestine): The British mandate for Palestine expires, and the state of Israel comes into being.
May 14, 1948, 6:11 p.m. eastern standard time: The United States recognizes Israel on a de facto basis. The White House issues the following statement: "This Government has been informed that a Jewish state has been proclaimed in Palestine, and recognition has been requested by the provisional government thereof. The United States recognizes the provisional government as the de facto authority of the State of Israel." To see a color copy of this document click here.
May 14, 1948, shortly after 6:11 p.m. eastern standard time: United States representative to the United Nations Warren Austin leaves his office at the United Nations and goes home. Secretary of State Marshall sends a State Department official to the United Nations to prevent the entire United States delegation from resigning.
May 15, 1948: On May 15, 1948, the Arab states issued their response statement and Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq attack Israel.
January 25, 1949: A permanent government takes office in Israel following popular elections.
January 31, 1949: The United States recognizes Israel on a de jure basis.
February 24 to July 20, 1949: Israel signs armistice agreements with Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 06:05 PM
Link to the British White Paper of 1939.
British White Paper of 1939 (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/brwh1939.htm)
w8znx
06-17-2005, 06:24 PM
tnx Mike
good work
but
still does not explane
hillary's secret dachshund puppy farm
in up state New York
fluoridation being used
to polute my
precious bodly fluids
got to go now
need to fill more sand bags for
the back yard bunker
mac
mine fuhrer i can walk!
KE7DFP
06-17-2005, 06:44 PM
Didn't see mentioned, the Israeli Ben Franklin, Golda Meir ?
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 06:50 PM
She didn't become prime minister until the late 60's.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 07:07 PM
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 15 2005,20:53)]Actually someone PM's me and said the poster himself probably removed it.
ABSOLUTELY FALSE. I leave everything I post, even when it ACTUALLY (not imagined) casts me in a bad light, which is rare.
Like I have often stated: I would love to go into hyperdrive and exercise my American rights fully but realize QRZ is not the place for it.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 07:18 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 15 2005,21:44)]I don't know what it is, but it is as strong here as it is in Europe, which is pretty bad. #It absolutely makes no sense. #I think it has more to do with jealousy than anything else.
There you go.... and you also believe 9/11 happened because they (the terrorists) are jealous of our prosperity which was a very popular belief and probably still is.
Ignorance is bliss and heads in the sand are a wonderfull thing. I get the biggest kick out of you naive little girls calling me ignorant. This isn't some stupid game, we are loosing our way of life, our country is going down the tubes, and all you can do is wonder what is going on.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 07:27 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 15 2005,22:57)]#I can honestly say, I have no problem with hating the people imprisoned at gitmo. #They are there for a damn good reason. #They WANT TO KILL YOU. #
Is it possible....just possible they may have a good reason to "WANT TO KILL YOU"?
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 07:30 PM
Nope it is not possible. They know nothing about me.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 07:31 PM
Quote[/b] ]There you go.... and you also believe 9/11 happened because they (the terrorists) are jealous of our prosperity which was a very popular belief and probably still is.
Ignorance is bliss and heads in the sand are a wonderfull thing. I get the biggest kick out of you naive little girls calling me ignorant. This isn't some stupid game, we are loosing our way of life, our country is going down the tubes, and all you can do is wonder what is going on.
I see you are now able to magically determine what I believe. #Congratulations on that accomplishment. #Let's see how good you are. #I am thinking of something in CW, what is it?
Why do I have a feeling that one day we will be seeing you on the news in a not so favorable light?
w8znx
06-17-2005, 07:49 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,22:55)]I believe that dachshund puppies may be removed at an early age from their parents, and through surgery, indoctrination, and the miracle of modern training, dachshunds may become productive, well-behaved pets.
73,
#Dave/al2i
Dave
please do not fall for AKC lies
WE are all counting on YOU
our LEADER in the battle aganst
the dark forces of dachshunds
yea look cute when puppies
but they grow up to be Dachshunds
doing my best to promulgate
your warning
of international dachshund conspiracy
Dave
should I also be worried about
other breeds of small dogs
Yorkshire Terriers,
and Toy Poodles come to mind
yours truly
Mac
kf6rdn
06-17-2005, 08:20 PM
Quote[/b] (w8znx @ June 17 2005,12:49)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 16 2005,22:55)]I believe that dachshund puppies may be removed at an early age from their parents, and through surgery, indoctrination, and the miracle of modern training, dachshunds may become productive, well-behaved pets.
73,
#Dave/al2i
Dave
please do not fall for AKC lies
WE are all counting on YOU
our LEADER in the battle aganst
the dark forces of dachshunds
yea look cute when puppies
but they grow up to be Dachshunds
doing my best to promulgate
your warning
of international dachshund conspiracy
Dave
should I also be worried about
other breeds of small dogs
Yorkshire Terriers,
and Toy Poodles come to mind
yours truly
Mac
Maybe with a small operation the dachshund can be converted.
To a datsun. Good for transportation.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:21 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 15 2005,23:38)]Maybe other folks are less affected by it, but I've felt a great emotional agitation and discomfiture from the images of sadistic GIs splashed through world media.
[/SERIOUS]
73,
Dave/al
Yeah...and I'll bet it would have been much less emotional agitation for you had it NOT been in the media on a world scale but still existed just the same.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:23 PM
Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ June 16 2005,00:35)]JTY's thread was a disingenuously disguised slam against Jews and I found it appalling. I've drawn my own conclusions about the motives behind his post. Fortunately the thread was axed.
WA5KRP
Texas
The forces of good and all things righteous have prevailed and the evil one has been smitten with another blow.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:25 PM
Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,01:10)]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans.
You're serious?!!??
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:31 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,07:36)]It is the ONLY way we can characterize them as a group, because they primarily come from about 10 countries.
Does the word ARAB ring a bell?
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:40 PM
Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ June 16 2005,11:33)]Before anyone makes a ridiculous call of the "race card" let me just say those days are over, liberals can no longer slither away like little snakes with that bluff.
Liberals!!?? are they supporting W? The incessant mind wash has been complete and highly effective. ALL rush to play the race card when it comes to those peoples who have been given the shield against a level playing field by those who benefit from it most.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 09:44 PM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,16:31)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,07:36)]It is the ONLY way we can characterize them as a group, because they primarily come from about 10 countries.
Does the word ARAB ring a bell?
Yes, but arab doesn't accurately describe who is teaching them. It is the radical muslims that are teaching the hate.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:46 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,13:31)]Why do I have a feeling that one day we will be seeing you on the news in a not so favorable light?
It is because our freedoms, including freedom of speech , are slipping away and I won't concede.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:48 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,13:31)]I see you are now able to magically determine what I believe.
Nothing majgic about reading your posts.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 09:48 PM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,16:46)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,13:31)]Why do I have a feeling that one day we will be seeing you on the news in a not so favorable light?
It is because our freedoms, including freedom of speech , are slipping away and I won't concede.
Other than this board, where have you lost your freedom of speech?
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 09:54 PM
JTY
You don't want to learn morse code. You feel Jews are holding you back. I can honestly say I have never seen one post of yours that had ANYTHING positive to say.
Don't you think that is strange? Why are you the only one being held back? Why are you the only one with the most negative attitude about life on this board? Answer those questions and you will find out that you are holding yourself back, and for no good reason. You have brains and intelligence. Use them for something good. Find a way to be happy about something.
KE7DFP
06-17-2005, 09:56 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 17 2005,11:50)]She didn't become prime minister until the late 60's.
I'm speaking of Golda the purveyor of gold. Golda the Zionist financier and Lobbyist. The fund raiser in America. She became Prime Minister much later.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 09:58 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,15:48)]Other than this board, where have you lost your freedom of speech?
In America freedom of speech is lost by those who don't wish to stand in the sandstorm of criticism for exercising it. Its subtle and very effective. There are quite a few people in my world that I'm very careful not to overload with something they will probably find personally offensive even though there is no reason to.
Get up on the soap box. Use the media and other ways to speak free and if you are ruffing some big wig feathers you will be attacked by powerfull forces who will try to intimidate you by all means imaginable. Yes it is a form of loss of freedom.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 10:00 PM
It is only a loss of freedom if you allow it to be.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 10:02 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,15:54)]JTY
You don't want to learn morse code. You feel Jews are holding you back. I can honestly say I have never seen one post of yours that had ANYTHING positive to say.
Don't you think that is strange? Why are you the only one being held back? Why are you the only one with the most negative attitude about life on this board? Answer those questions and you will find out that you are holding yourself back, and for no good reason. You have brains and intelligence. Use them for something good. Find a way to be happy about something.
Ok doc. BTW: It is you that have said the Jews are holding me back. They are not holding me back., but they sure got a pretty good grip on quite a few others.
kc7jty
06-17-2005, 10:03 PM
Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,16:00)]It is only a loss of freedom if you allow it to be.
Wonderful blanket wisdom there.
ai4ep
06-17-2005, 10:04 PM
Hasnt this been a fantastic day ? Just full of mystery and awe and wonder.....
a great day to practice the fine art of morse code.
a great day to LEARN the fine art of morse code.
a great day to USE morse code.
Long live morse code.
Long live morse code.
second verse...same as first... a little bit louder, a little bit worse.
{ repeat 17, 295 times and fade }
You're basically saying, "Waaaa! Freedom of speech is impaired because if I say what I want, other people will criticize me!"
If your freedom of speech is prevented by others using their freedom of speech, I guess it's a deadlock. In orther words, you're as free to spew BS as we are to call it.
As far as this website goes, someone owns it and pays for it, and they can delete what they want.
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 10:09 PM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,17:02)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,15:54)]JTY
You don't want to learn morse code. #You feel Jews are holding you back. #I can honestly say I have never seen one post of yours that had ANYTHING positive to say.
Don't you think that is strange? #Why are you the only one being held back? #Why are you the only one with the most negative attitude about life on this board? #Answer those questions and you will find out that you are holding yourself back, and for no good reason. #You have brains and intelligence. #Use them for something good. #Find a way to be happy about something.
Ok doc. BTW: It is you that have said the Jews are holding me back. They are not holding me back., but they sure got a pretty good grip on quite a few others.
Let's not forget what you said. You said life is difficult swimming upstream against the torrent. Which referred to the Jews because I specifically asked you that question. Now you say they are not holding you back. If you are going to be a person who is oppressed by someone, you need to be consistent about who is oppressing you.
ai4ep
06-17-2005, 10:12 PM
long live morse code
W5MJL
06-17-2005, 10:17 PM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,17:03)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,16:00)]It is only a loss of freedom if you allow it to be.
Wonderful blanket wisdom there.
It's your choice not to speak because you are worried about what people think. There is a hate group for every type of person in America. Certainly you can find one that suits your needs.
w8znx
06-17-2005, 10:22 PM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,14:58)]I'm very careful not to overload with something they will probably find personally offensive even though there is no reason to.
oh like
your offensively clamorous
anti-Semitism
Mac
how can we be sure that 7jty is not
a secret dachshund breeder
W3MIV
06-17-2005, 11:05 PM
Quote[/b] (w8znx @ June 17 2005,18:22)]how can we be sure that 7jty is not
a secret dachshund breeder
Ye mean like those sheep=breeders with the high boots?
You gotta get pretty low for that, Mac!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ June 17 2005,13:30)]Quote[/b] (KD5OWO @ June 16 2005,22:23)]I suspect there are some Pagans who dislike dachshund's. Assuming you are talking about the dog, since I am not sure what your obsession with dachshunds might be refering to.
As for a place to get straight facts. Perhaps everyone should visit www.religioustolerance.org
I doubt it, most pagans I know are actually Wiccans, who revere ALL life..
His "obsession" is, I believe merely tongue and cheek.
As to religious tolerance, I read up on Islam during the first gulf war, it didnt seem too terrible, belief in a 1 God, (Allah) prophets, etc. Nothing too terrible. Though I havent read the actual Quran, or anything from Muhammad so I know I am missing alot.
People I know that are Muslims may have a few strange (to me) eating habits http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif but otherwise have been good people. However it does seem to breed a more extremist view on things, with their easy out of "jihad".
Maybe the people that are extremist like that would find a way to be extremist of they were of another religion, much like someone would be suicidal whether or not they ever listened to "Ozzy" or "Marilynn".
And I rather like dachsunds, they are cute in a sort of "I accidently ran into a telephone pole" way.
Indeed, all the Pagans/Wiccans I know revere life. That does not mean one can not like a certain kind of animal. I would not wish any Pit Bulls dead, but I certainly don't want to own one. Not bad dogs if they are well trained for the family, but even then, you never know when one might snap. I don't know ever much about dachshunds. I am much more of a cat person myself. We do have a Boxer dog that I adore, I suppose the dumber the dog the cuter they are. hi.
@JTY...
The time you spend on QRZ.com could be spent learning the morse code. I have admitted many times that I am not a code operator, but what I did when I wanted to learn it was LEARN IT. Now I am Extra class and having a blast. This is not a personal attack, but just a suggestion. Not sure what your problem with the Jewish Faith is, I am sure there are Jewish and Muslims hams out there, so we all might consider leaving our personal attacks towards any religious group off of a very active amateur radio website. That is directed at everyone.
Again: www.religioustolerance.org
Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,23:10)]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans. And, FYI, McVeigh and crew weren't real Christians. No Christian would kill 168 innocent men women and children. So, your slam, although expected, is moot.
Quote[/b] ]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans.
What deluded nonsense are you trying to spread now? McVeigh and his buddies were all white supremacists! They wouldn't be caught anywhere near any non-whites. BTW, it's "Philippines"
Quote[/b] ]And, FYI, McVeigh and crew weren't real Christians. No Christian would kill 168 innocent men women and children. So, your slam, although expected, is moot.
Not "real" Christians, eh? So the Bibles they carried around and the scripture they quoted wasn't Christian? Just what was it?
I guess your buddy Bush isn't a real Christian either with the blood of countless innocent Iraqi citizens on his hands.
Hypocrisy, thy name is FLR.
Dave WX7B
Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,23:34)]
Helllooo to Washington state clue-free zone! Hellloooo!
Quote[/b] ][Hmmm... lessee... You deny hating Bush -- you call it "dissent" -- then you call him a criminal. You don't have any evidence of this criminality, but you go with it anyway.
One more time just for you. Dissent does not equal hate. It's convenient for Bush toadies such as yourself to scream YOU HATE! at the top of your lungs when you're bankrupt of ideas.
Criminality? You obviously haven't been paying attention! Hello, starting a war based on false premises and lying about it? That's criminal in my book. You can spin it all you want, but it is what it is and Bush's actions in this whole Iraq mess ARE criminal.
Quote[/b] ]You then claim that it's all a smoke screen by "partisans" who "can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans [sic] of this criminal administration."
Uh, Mr. Ed, the linguist professor! SIC? Is there any OTHER way to spell "shennigans"? Hmm? Is this an attempt to look smart? You failed.
Quote[/b] ]You can return to your spit spewing rant now.
No thanks. I'll leave the foaming at the mouth to you.
Dave WX7B
W2ILP
06-17-2005, 11:48 PM
ka5fap
I want to thank you for the chronology that you posted here. It seems to agree with what I myself remember. I was very interested in following the news when Israel was created. I was attending High School at the time and my classes were made up predominently of Jewish American students, who were excited by the whole idea of Israel being a new Jewish state. One of my friends was Stanley Milgram who later became famous as a social psychologist. The late Dr. Milgram is in all of the sociology and psychology text books because of his obedience to authority "electric chair" experiments. Of all my Jewish friends, it was only Milgram who realized in 1948 that Isreal would be big trouble for Jews worldwide and also for the USA. Milgram's father was a Turkish Jew, who understood all to well the minds of the Muslems and of the Jews and how the Ottoman Empire had functioned prior to WW1.
Milgram said that the Jews would never be satisfied with a nation the size of Israel and that the Muslims would never want to accept a Jewish state in the middle east. Even if their leaders would accept it...there was no way that the Muslim in the street could accept it.
After the chronology you posted ended, new reasons for the U.S. to aid and arm Israel emerged. Egypt and Syria merged to form the United Arab Republic (UAR). Nasser, who was the leader of Egypt and the UAR, began to get aid from the USSR...but we know that the UAR was not really about to become a loyal Soviet satellite. Anyway the US decided to aid and arm Israel at that time because it was believed that the USSR was or would be aiding the UAR. Israel who was supposed to have been attacked by the "UAR" defeated Egypt and the USSR had done little or nothing to help Egypt in the war. Sadat became leader of Egypt. He wanted the territory that the Israelis had won in the war returned to Egypt, so he decided to make peace with Israel. Syria did not sign for any peace treaty, so the UAR was broken...but Israel had not won any land from Syria so they had no need to sign. The pot was enriched by the USA which promised monitary grants to both Israel and Egypt (more to Isreal) if they would sign a peace treaty. The PLO, under Arafat wanted to sign such a treaty if they could have gottren back the land that Isreal won from the PLO plus money incentives as Egypt had managed to get. This was never completely settled and Arafat could not give up any part of occupied territory...nor would Israel.
Do you know that the US now continues to give Israel grants of at least $2.7 Billion every year (out of our taxpayer's money)? Enuf sed. I don't want this thread to get censored.
Like many Americans of Jewish ancestory...I am deeply troubled by Israel and all the hate it has brought us from the Muslims. I am not anti-Jew...but I have become anti-Israel...because like my old friend Milgram, I know that there will never be peace in the middle east if Israel continues to exist. It is a religious war for the religious fanatics...and has become a nationalistic war for all native born Israelis.
I am thinking only of the future good will of the US to all nations. I don't think that money, trade, politics or even land can ever solve the problems between Jews and Muslims in the middle east.
Certainly the U.S. has done all it could to try to help make peace...and what thanks do we get? 9/11 attack by Muslim terrorists and Israel asking for more money and more arms from us and continous help in disarming its neighbors. Enuf sed.
Bob w2ilp (Israel's Lingering Problems)
K9STH
06-17-2005, 11:55 PM
I am having trouble actually making any sense out of this thread. Since this forum, and ONLY this forum, allows a "bit" more controversal subjects, and since the posts, so far, haven't gone "overboard" with personal comments (but are definitely coming VERY close), I am allowing the thread to continue. However, I am closely monitoring it to make sure that it doesn't "cross the line".
Now, for JTY in particular and for some others in general:
I have posted this before, but it didn't seem to "sink in", at least to some people. There is NO such thing as "freedom of speech" on the Internet. In fact, what some people think is "freedom of speech" is not "freedom of speech". What "freedom of speech" means is that you are free to criticize the government without fear of retribution. You are NOT free to say things that are not true about someone. You are NOT free to call out "fire" in a crowded theater. You are NOT free to use a public address system in the middle of the night in a residential area. And so on.
When you post in an Internet forum that is owned by someone else, you are legally obliged to comply with the rules set forth by the owner of the site. It is just like you were sitting in that person's living room. If the person doesn't like what you are saying, he/she has several options as do you. The person can "ask" you to change the subject and you can comply. The person can ask you to "shut up" and you can comply. The person can ask you to leave the premysis and you can comply. If you do not comply with the request then you can be forcibly evicted. If you resist, then you can be arrested if the person seeks to "press charges".
It is the same with an Internet site. If the owner does not "like" what you have posted then you can edit your comments (or the owner or his/her representatives can edit them), you can delete your comments (or the owner or his/her representatives can delete them), and so forth. If you insist on posting things that are not allowed by the owner of the site then you can be banned. The owner is definitely within his/her rights to do so and you have NO legal recourse in the matter.
Personally I do not like to recommend that someone be banned. In fact, I usually "bend over backwards" to keep other moderators or the "powers that be" of QRZ.com from banning someone. However, certain individuals keep "pushing" the line, even crossing it once-in-a-while, until I have no choice but to recommend that they be banned.
So far, the "powers that be" have not "overruled" my recommendations and the handful of persons that I have recommended for banning have been banned. I do not like to have to recommend banning. But, I am losing patience with certain individuals (especially JTY who has accused me in the past of not being "specific" with those that I am chastising) and I certainly recommend a change in attitude.
Again, I do not want to have to recommend that anyone be banned. But, if I do not see a rapid improvement I will do so. Also, I do NOT want to hear from anyone about this (by message function, in any thread on this site, by E-Mail, by telephone, or by any other means including posting on another site). If someone insists on contacting me I will definitely take that into consideration towards the banning of the individual.
Posting on QRZ.com is a PRIVILEGE, not a "right". Protect your privilege by watching what you post. A "word to the wise is sufficient".
Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators
wd0ct
06-18-2005, 12:05 AM
Are you actually serious that you don't want to see anything referring to your suggestions even on another site?
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 16 2005,21:11)]Is it just me or is this an incredible double standard?
you funny
W5MJL
06-18-2005, 12:32 AM
W2ILP
Israel has always been our friend so I have some difficulty leaving them high and dry. I wouldn't mind distancing ourselves from them, but it has to be done on a gradual basis so as not to look like we have succumbed to pressure. Once it can be shown that you succumb to pressure you get nothing else but more pressure.
K9STH
06-18-2005, 01:28 AM
CT:
Actually, I have no control what happens on another site and, frankly, I do not usually read other sites (even eHam) since I don't have the time.
But, it seems that whenever someone is severely chastised on QRZ.com or is banned from QRZ.com they do go off to a couple of other sites and "bitch" to high heaven that their "freedom of speech" has been violated. Myself, and several others of the QRZ.com staff have been called all sorts of things on other sites. If we really wanted to "push it" we could very easily have the site "shut down" and even bring a lawsuit against those who have posted the comments. But, as for myself, I just "ignore" the comments because I realize the character of the person(s) who posted them in the first place.
People try to insult me. However, I have to respect the opinion of someone who is insulting me and, so far, none of those who have tried do I respect their opinion. Those who post in the forums that I moderate have to realize that I am probably the most lenient of the moderators of this site. It takes a "lot" to upset me. But, once I am upset it also takes a lot to calm me down!
What I don't want to do is to get "involved with" someone who is "defending" his/her position. In the past I have gotten all sorts of "excuses" most often "the other guy started it and all I was doing was 'defending' myself".
I don't care "who" started it. I like to think that everyone who posts on QRZ.com is mature enough to realize that he/she has a responsibility to obey the "rules of the road" of QRZ.com:
No profanity
No obscenities
No personal attacks
Unfortunately, it is the 3rd "rule" that seems to cause the most problems. Too many people get "caught up" in the moment and cannot control their emotions. As such, they post things that have no business being posted on this site.
Glen, K9STH
wd0ct
06-18-2005, 01:46 AM
Okay thanks for the explanation.
KE7DFP
06-18-2005, 02:17 AM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 17 2005,16:32)]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had # #
What deluded nonsense are you trying to spread now? McVeigh and his buddies were all white supremacists! They wouldn't be caught anywhere near any non-whites. #
[QUOTE=Quote ]And, FYI, McVeigh and crew weren't real Christians. No Christian would kill 168 innocent men women and children. So, your slam, although expected, is moot.
Not "real" Christians, eh? So the Bibles they carried around and the scripture they quoted wasn't Christian? Just what was it?
I guess your buddy Bush isn't a real Christian either with the blood of countless innocent Iraqi citizens on his hands.
.
Dave WX7B
Actually, white supremicists consider Muslims radicals as their allies, because (they believe) they are both trying to exterminate the Zionist Occupational Goverment. They are against the war in Iraq and pres. Bush. #Come to think of it, your ideas are almost identical to theirs as regards Bush and the war. #You have more in common with them than most Americans. #At one point the Klan even offered an alliance with the Nation of Islam, saying we both share a greater enemy than the threat we pose to each other. #So what you are saying is deluded nonsense. # # Secondly, as to McViegh being a christian (or not being a real christian), he was an "Identity Christian" # They have there own translation and revised Bible, and no it is not the same Bible that he was carrying around. #They believe, among other things, that they are the Lost tribe of Israel, and the Jews imposters. #So you see, it is not even the same thing as a christian. #Also their emphasis is on the old testament, or Jewish scriptures in the bible. #Then ones that do not relate to Jesus Christ. # As to your third point, what in the heck are you talking about? #That's nothing more than the rantings and ravings of a lunatic. #Maybe you should move to Iraq, where you'll find like minded folk amongst the criminal element.
Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ June 17 2005,18:17)]#That's nothing more than the rantings and ravings of a lunatic. #Maybe you should move to Iraq, where you'll find like minded folk amongst the criminal element.
Lunatic? Criminal element? Move to Iraq?
Hmmm. Sorry you can't deal with an opposing opinion without stooping to ridiculous personal attacks.
Guess you didn't read STH's post a page back...
Dave WX7B
kc7flr
06-18-2005, 04:04 AM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,14:25)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,01:10)]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans.
You're serious?!!??
Yes, I'm serious. Maybe you should look into it.
kc7flr
06-18-2005, 04:06 AM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,14:40)]Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ June 16 2005,11:33)]Before anyone makes a ridiculous call of the "race card" let me just say those days are over, liberals can no longer slither away like little snakes with that bluff.
Liberals!!?? are they supporting W? The incessant mind wash has been complete and highly effective. ALL rush to play the race card when it comes to those peoples who have been given the shield against a level playing field by those who benefit from it most.
You're rambling...
W8EFA
06-18-2005, 04:07 AM
Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 17 2005,21:04)]Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,14:25)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,01:10)]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans.
You're serious?!!??
Yes, I'm serious. Maybe you should look into it.
Perhaps you can provide us some evidence? I have never heard of this anywhere.
kc7flr
06-18-2005, 04:10 AM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,14:46)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,13:31)]Why do I have a feeling that one day we will be seeing you on the news in a not so favorable light?
It is because our freedoms, including freedom of speech , are slipping away and I won't concede.
Has the government denied you the right to speak freely? Remember, the Constitutionally recognized right to free speech only limits the government's power. Your right to free speech does not mean I have to listen.
kc7flr
06-18-2005, 04:17 AM
Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,14:58)]Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ June 16 2005,15:48)]Other than this board, where have you lost your freedom of speech?
In America freedom of speech is lost by those who don't wish to stand in the sandstorm of criticism for exercising it. Its subtle and very effective. There are quite a few people in my world that I'm very careful not to overload with something they will probably find personally offensive even though there is no reason to.
Get up on the soap box. Use the media and other ways to speak free and if you are ruffing some big wig feathers you will be attacked by powerfull forces who will try to intimidate you by all means imaginable. Yes it is a form of loss of freedom.
Are you serious??!
kc7flr
06-18-2005, 04:59 AM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 17 2005,16:32)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,23:10)]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans. And, FYI, McVeigh and crew weren't real Christians. No Christian would kill 168 innocent men women and children. So, your slam, although expected, is moot.
Quote[/b] ]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans.
What deluded nonsense are you trying to spread now? McVeigh and his buddies were all white supremacists! They wouldn't be caught anywhere near any non-whites. BTW, it's "Philippines"
Quote[/b] ]And, FYI, McVeigh and crew weren't real Christians. No Christian would kill 168 innocent men women and children. So, your slam, although expected, is moot.
Not "real" Christians, eh? So the Bibles they carried around and the scripture they quoted wasn't Christian? Just what was it?
I guess your buddy Bush isn't a real Christian either with the blood of countless innocent Iraqi citizens on his hands.
Hypocrisy, thy name is FLR.
Dave WX7B
Actually, McVeigh and Co. were willing to ally themselves with anyone who hated the US government as much as they did. Your portrayal of them is an over simplistic one.
Thank you for the spelling help. I do sometimes misspell words.
It is documented fact that Terry Nicols traveled to the Philippines to meet with al Qaida operatives.
Oh, and I have never suffered from delusions. You must have me confused with one of those people who think Diebold helped Bush win this last election.
Just because they may have carried Christian Bibles doesn't make them Christian. I do not remember hearing of McVeigh carrying a Bible around anyway.
Oh, now Bush is my buddy, eh? Just what innocent Iraqis would you be referring to? Saddam's sons? Yeah, they are soooo innocent.
K9STH
06-18-2005, 05:10 AM
FLR:
Your most recent post is infringing on the "personal attack" area. I suggest that you edit it and "tone down" your response.
Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators
kc7flr
06-18-2005, 05:15 AM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 17 2005,16:48)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,23:34)]
Helllooo to Washington state clue-free zone! Hellloooo!
Quote[/b] ][Hmmm... lessee... You deny hating Bush -- you call it "dissent" -- then you call him a criminal. You don't have any evidence of this criminality, but you go with it anyway.
One more time just for you. Dissent does not equal hate. It's convenient for Bush toadies such as yourself to scream YOU HATE! at the top of your lungs when you're bankrupt of ideas.
Criminality? You obviously haven't been paying attention! Hello, starting a war based on false premises and lying about it? That's criminal in my book. You can spin it all you want, but it is what it is and Bush's actions in this whole Iraq mess ARE criminal.
Quote[/b] ]You then claim that it's all a smoke screen by "partisans" who "can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans [sic] of this criminal administration."
Uh, Mr. Ed, the linguist professor! SIC? Is there any OTHER way to spell "shennigans"? Hmm? Is this an attempt to look smart? You failed.
Quote[/b] ]You can return to your spit spewing rant now.
No thanks. I'll leave the foaming at the mouth to you.
Dave WX7B
Oh my, aren't you the bright one?
The clue free zone is north of here... it's called Seattle.
You go beyond dissent, Mr. Dave. Dissent would be mere disagreement, not making thinks up about supposed crimes committed.
"Bush toadies?" I voted for the guy, but I don't agree with all he does or says. You see, I think for myself. I'm not one to vote party line like some people.
You have no evidence that Bush lied about anything. All you have is a couple British documents that use British phrasialogy which you misinterpret to say that Bush was trying to cook the facts to support his supposed pre-drawn conclusion to go to war with Saddam. When those documents are explained, you and your ilk start your spit spewing attacks calling anyone not agreeing with you names. It all says much more about you than it does about those you attack.
It is spelled *shenanigans*. There is no such thing as a "shennigan" (sic).
Your attempt to look smart failed miserably.
kc7flr
06-18-2005, 05:44 AM
Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ June 17 2005,21:07)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 17 2005,21:04)]Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ June 17 2005,14:25)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,01:10)]Actually, the guys who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been in contact with al Qaida operatives in the Phillipeans.
You're serious?!!??
Yes, I'm serious. Maybe you should look into it.
Perhaps you can provide us some evidence? #I have never heard of this anywhere.
Google search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Timothy+McVeigh+al+Qaeda&spell=1)
Results 1 - 10 of about 38,800
Have at it.
Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 17 2005,21:15)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ June 17 2005,16:48)]Quote[/b] (kc7flr @ June 16 2005,23:34)]
Helllooo to Washington state clue-free zone! Hellloooo!
Quote[/b] ][Hmmm... lessee... You deny hating Bush -- you call it "dissent" -- then you call him a criminal. You don't have any evidence of this criminality, but you go with it anyway.
One more time just for you. Dissent does not equal hate. It's convenient for Bush toadies such as yourself to scream YOU HATE! at the top of your lungs when you're bankrupt of ideas.
Criminality? You obviously haven't been paying attention! Hello, starting a war based on false premises and lying about it? That's criminal in my book. You can spin it all you want, but it is what it is and Bush's actions in this whole Iraq mess ARE criminal.
Quote[/b] ]You then claim that it's all a smoke screen by "partisans" who "can't adequately substantiate the stupid shennigans [sic] of this criminal administration."
Uh, Mr. Ed, the linguist professor! SIC? Is there any OTHER way to spell "shennigans"? Hmm? Is this an attempt to look smart? You failed.
Quote[/b] ]You can return to your spit spewing rant now.
No thanks. I'll leave the foaming at the mouth to you.
Dave WX7B
Oh my, aren't you the bright one?
The clue free zone is north of here... it's called Seattle.
You go beyond dissent, Mr. Dave. Dissent would be mere disagreement, not making thinks up about supposed crimes committed.
"Bush toadies?" I voted for the guy, but I don't agree with all he does or says. You see, I think for myself. I'm not one to vote party line like some people.
You have no evidence that Bush lied about anything. All you have is a couple British documents that use British phrasialogy which you misinterpret to say that Bush was trying to cook the facts to support his supposed pre-drawn conclusion to go to war with Saddam. When those documents are explained, you and your ilk start your spit spewing attacks calling anyone not agreeing with you names. It all says much more about you than it does about those you attack.
It is spelled *shenanigans*. There is no such thing a