When your government perceives you as the threat

[kc7jty]

When your government perceives you as the threat, then YOU will be treated like the prisoners at Abu Graib & Guantanamo. And it will all be done in the name of national security. Do you trust them 100% in all they do and will do? Then you got nothing to worry about.

[w3sy]

Holy Moses! Some people talk about the Abu Graib prisoners like it was Auschwitz or something. I've seen Frat Initiation Rites that were more severe.

[WA5KRP]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lookaround.gif You ain't from the IRS arya?



WA5KRP
Texas

[KA3RFE]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 08 2005,15:23)]When your government perceives you as the threat, then YOU will be treated like the prisoners at Abu Graib & Guantanamo. And it will all be done in the name of national security. Do you trust them 100% in all they do and will do? Then you got nothing to worry about.
What in the world are you talking about?

[KB3MFB]

I think what he's trying to say is you or me could be imprisoned and treated the same way as those folks are if we are deemed a threat to the US.

[W2ILP]

I have great respect for the US government and the freedoms that we have in the USA. If we want to say something we can disagree between ourselves and eventually some intelligent minds will see some truth, when and if there is truth to be seen.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" are not necessarily the nine most terrifying words we can expect to hear (even though these words of supposed terror were indicated in a quote by Ronald Regan.)

I just received notice that Salman Rushdie, President of of PEN American Center, the national association of literary writers, chaired an awards committee which awarded its highest award for non-fiction to:-

"The End of Faith" by Sam Harris

I have read Harris' book. I agree with most of it.
I know that even I would be afraid to write what Harris wrote. He is able to explain logically important concepts, which I am unable or afraid to express as straight forward as he does. It is my gut feeling that many Americans would agree with Harris' philosophy, but are afraid that it might not be as mainstream as I believe it actually is.

I won't tell you to buy or read his book or exactly what it says. Maybe if you know that it has won a high award you might be interested in it. It is a wonderful feeling to know that authors in the US can be free to write books that challenge the establishments...both church and state. Some people might think that Harris is a threat to our government. I don't think his life will be threatened like Rushdie's life was threatened by Muslim leaders.

Where but in America?

w2ilp (Independent Literary Prizes)

[kc7jty]

I thought yesterday when there were still no hits on this plug (fishing term) that it would stay that way.
I have decided the best way to enjoy freedom of speech is to exercise it. Sometimes it makes me feel good just to express myself out loud even if its with a friend (single person) who usually shrugs off my political mumblings anyway.

You got me interested in Sam Harris now. Will have to at least do a quickie search on him.
I too felt squeemish about exercising my freedoms until I started listening to C span instead of just surfing by, and filling my mind with the materials in magazines such as Harpers. I loaned a library card to a friend once who wanted to check out the "Turned Diaries" (I suggested he read it). After he got the book he told me he got a lot of strange looks and treatment by the library staff and that it was I (me) who would probably get the credit for checking out the book (undoubtedly some black list for checking it out). I told him it was OK because I already READ THE TURNER DIARIES years ago.
I can't do it, my life is passing by right now. I can not confine myself to the useless cordial small talk that seems to please perfectly the masses. I just can't do it.

[K0RGR]

They say that if you take the pills, the black helicopters will go away. Personally, I don't trust them, though.

[n0ov]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 07 2005,16:23)]When your government perceives you as the threat, then YOU will be treated like the prisoners at Abu Graib & Guantanamo. And it will all be done in the name of national security. Do you trust them 100% in all they do and will do? Then you got nothing to worry about.
You don't have to worry about the government.
Just the other prisoners. Now there's a market for soap on a rope!

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (w0pee @ May 09 2005,17:12)]You don't have to worry about the government.
Hey...somebodys got to do it. I think our runaway, totally out of controll government is the biggest problem we face as Americans today. Completly amazes me that so few feel the same way as I. Oh well....

Oh and yes.....it don't matter if the soap is on a string or not, the gvt. is gonna get you anyway you look at it.

[wg7x]

Neo,

Will you take the red pill or the blue?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ May 10 2005,15:41)]They say that if you take the pills, the black helicopters will go away. Personally, I don't trust them, though.
Black Helicopters you say, never seen one, have any of you?

kxq

[KA7RRA]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ May 09 2005,17:26)]I have great respect for the US government and the freedoms that we have in the USA. #If we want to say something we can disagree between ourselves and eventually some intelligent minds will see some truth, when and if there is truth to be seen.
But don't look suspicious, I was on a Washington State ferry and I was talking on my hand held radio and listening to the scanner some of the passengers reported me has suspicious I got to meet the Capt. of the ferry boat the first gorilla and a Washington State Patrol Officer

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (KA7RRA @ May 10 2005,21:54)]But don't look suspicious, #I was on a Washington State ferry and I was talking on my hand held radio and listening to the scanner some of the passengers reported me has suspicious #I got to meet the Capt. of the ferry boat the first gorilla and a #Washington State Patrol Officer
I don't like all this security BS any more than you. But just imagine how intimidated somebody who fits a terrorist profile must feel in the same situation. We'll never know how many attacks may have been discouraged because people are watching out for their own.

No American asked for this pain is the ass.



WA5KRP
Texas

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 09 2005,23:01)]No American asked for this pain is the ass.
Every American who votes for the status quo Dem. or Rep. asks for this pain in the ass, and gets what they ask for. Take your shoes off, you might be a terrorist.

[n0jaa]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 08 2005,11:23)]When your government perceives you as the threat, then YOU will be treated like the prisoners at Abu Graib & Guantanamo. And it will all be done in the name of national security. Do you trust them 100% in all they do and will do? Then you got nothing to worry about.
"Our" government already perceives us as a threat. It's called, innocently enough, "The Patriot Act." It gives government an excuse to spy on its own citizens, and it allows government to presume that all citizens are guilty of being terrorists unless and until proven otherwise.

Examples of lunatic idiocy...

If you like to take pictures of trains in public places...
If you like to watch airplanes...
If you look like an ordinary Joe but talk into a black box...
If you park your car too close to a school zone...
If you have more than two antennas on your vehicle...
If you utter the words "God" and "freedom" in the same sentence...
If you're an independent truck driver...
If you believe that guns aren't only for police officers...

Then you just might be a terrorist!

I'm sure there are many more idiotic examples!

Paul, N0JAA

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[kc7jty]

jaa:
I wuz smilin ear to ear when I read your piece.
respond thusly:
Officer: Did I do anything wrong? Am I under arrest? When he says no just walk away like you own the whole friggin town. Its one of the best feelings in the universe. Not difficult to intimidate a police officer, they can't exceed a certain IQ (requirement) for the job. I think its around 90.

[kb2vxa]

Hi Paul and readers,

"If you like to take pictures of trains in public places..."

You must be a rail fan and well aware that many railroads like New Jersey Transit have a photo ban. Hoboken Terminal (ex Lackawanna) is a favorite place to get busted by the railroad bulls.

"If you like to watch airplanes..."

The PAPD will get you shooting pictures from the terminal observation windows at the NY area airports.

"If you park your car too close to a school zone..."

I was hassled by the NYPD a decade before 911.

"If you're an independent truck driver..."

If you're a truck driver, period.

You forgot the most famous one, if you had long hair and wore tie-dye clothes in the 60s. that got many of us on Hoover's list, that's why we called him The Grand High Executioner. Don't think anything has changed except it's electronic now, the database has replaced the filing cabinet.

Nah, I don't wear a tin foil hat but due to the close proximity of Lakehurst NAS we DO have black helicopters overhead from time to time. When one lands on the athletic field I'll start worrying but not until then.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 10 2005,23:01)]Quote[/b] (KA7RRA @ May 10 2005,21:54)]But don't look suspicious, I was on a Washington State ferry and I was talking on my hand held radio and listening to the scanner some of the passengers reported me has suspicious I got to meet the Capt. of the ferry boat the first gorilla and a Washington State Patrol Officer
I don't like all this security BS any more than you. But just imagine how intimidated somebody who fits a terrorist profile must feel in the same situation. We'll never know how many attacks may have been discouraged because people are watching out for their own.

No American asked for this pain is the ass.



WA5KRP
Texas
Aren't we just cultivating smarter terrorists?

73, Rob

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ May 12 2005,20:52)]Aren't we just cultivating smarter terrorists?
Sadly, that may be true.


What plan do you have?




WA5KRP
Texas

[KW4MW]

Big Gov't is getting bigger and more intrusive every day but we are just too comfortable with our 4BR/2+BA, Central AC&H, 2CG, w/w carpet, HDTV surround sound system, fully equipped SUV or mini-van, full refrigerator/freezer and adult beverages or recreation drugs to really give a damn.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 12 2005,19:58)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ May 12 2005,20:52)]Aren't we just cultivating smarter terrorists?
Sadly, that may be true.


What plan do you have?
I plan to mind my own beeswax.

While it may be altruistic to be the champions of the world, we're pretty good at failing, and it's costing us a fortune. I'm not one to say that we're getting our just desserts, but it might be time to understand that cultural differences are at the root of it all. That is, not everyone in the world worships Jebus or desires a 3-car garage full of SUV's.

We (and by that, I mean the U.S.) are where we are today because we ASSume that we're perfect and everyone should be just like us. Utter bullcrap on a grand scale. This alligator is biting our collective asses from every angle today.

73, Rob

[n0jaa]

I was reading a science fiction short story today by A. E. van Vogt, titled, "The Weapons Shop." While reading, I happened upon a couple of interesting quips...

"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free."

"People always have the kind of government they want."

Paul, N0JAA.

[KB3MFB]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 11 2005,22:01)]Every American who votes for the status quo Dem. or Rep. asks for this pain in the ass, and gets what they ask for. Take your shoes off, you might be a terrorist.
Amen to that kc7jty. #.

Republican and Democrats. #Same $***, different pile.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ May 11 2005,20:04)]Big Gov't is getting bigger and more intrusive every day but we are just too comfortable with our 4BR/2+BA, Central AC&H, 2CG, w/w carpet, HDTV surround sound system, fully equipped SUV or mini-van, full refrigerator/freezer and adult beverages or recreation drugs to really give a damn.
Good one!...but the whole thing is like a dining table completely set for dinner with someone ready to pull the tablecloth out from under it all. When it happens things will change dramatically overnight.

BTW. They said Afghanistan's opium production was almost completely eradicated under the Taliban rule.....now its overflowing and ready to burst at the seams.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ May 11 2005,21:06)]#

We (and by that, I mean the U.S.) are where we are today because we ASSume that we're perfect and everyone should be just like us. #Utter bullcrap on a grand scale. #This alligator is biting our collective asses from every angle today.

73, Rob
Don't forget the government's plan to expand the economy (and skim off their share through inflation, taxes, etc) through continuous explosive growth by accepting millions of imigrants into the country annually .

[W2ILP]

nojaa:

Good post and quotes:-

"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free"

True! The US wants to free the world BUT it gives Israel the right to buy weapons while preventing most Muslem nations from having the right to buy weapons.

I know the US has to do that since 9/11 to "prevent terrorism"
The trouble is that the US did that BEFORE 9/11 and that is why we got attacked on 9/11.

"People always have the kind of government they want."

True! Eventually the masses will win out over tyranical leadership....BUT it could take a revolution for the masses to win.
It could take a very long time.

The British, at one time, controlled a large part of the world. Their secret was divide and conquer BUT make each small country dependent on the British selling them arms so they could protect themselves from their neighbors or attack them. If the fighting got too rough the Brits could leave the area and let the natives continue their revolutiuons or wars and come back when they got tired of fighting themselves. This tactic almost worked in the founding of our nation. Some of the British were hoping that the US collonies would go to war with Canada or Mexico and when they got weakened by fighting each other the Brits could come back and take it all. This never happened to us in the USA...BUT if you look at maps and histories it sure happened and is still happening worldwide. Look at the independent port cities arround Arabia or even China that the British created. At one time what is now India was a hodge podge of feudal like states;..each with its own governor but none with enough power to think of repelling British rule. We are supposed to not be colonialist imperialists .The US government does not seek more territory (although private US corporations may seek more international control)...BUT sometimes we do things that make us look even worse to small nations that fear a return to the imperialist past. We fail to see ourselves as others see us..."The ugly Americans"...even worse than the British...because we seem to them to do the same thing that British, French, Spanish, etc colonists did but deny it.

w2ilp (Imperialistic Libaration Plot?)

[wa9cwx]

?
People have the Government they DESERVE.
"Want" has nothing to do with it.

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 10 2005,17:23)]Quote[/b] (w0pee @ May 09 2005,17:12)]You don't have to worry about the government.
Hey...somebodys got to do it. I think our runaway, totally out of controll government is the biggest problem we face as Americans today. Completly amazes me that so few feel the same way as I. Oh well....

Oh and yes.....it don't matter if the soap is on a string or not, the gvt. is gonna get you anyway you look at it.
You would replace it with what?

You are amazed? Does that mean you consider yourself smarter and/or more perceptive than the majority of Americans?

Ed

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ May 12 2005,21:24)]You are amazed? # Does that mean you consider yourself smarter and/or more perceptive than the majority of Americans?

Ed
Either I am smarter/more perceptive or the majority sits on their mouths. Whats your take on it my good man. Am I completely off base in my position?

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ May 12 2005,21:14)]?
People have the Government they DESERVE.
"Want" has nothing to do with it.
The MAJORITY has the government THEY deserve, the rest of us are STUCK.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ May 12 2005,21:24)]You would replace it with what?
The fine details of what can be taken from what we are supposed to be/say we are, as a country. Its the understanding that conditions have deteriorated so far down that something needs to happen. WHAT would be better than the current free fall.

I am convinced this Iraq fiasco will turn out for the worse, as it is doing now. This is however a good thing for we obviously need to be taught the Viet Nam lesson every generation or so. I just wonder how many more years of it must pass before the people start to reject our government's failure there, as was the case in V. N. Read my signature.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 14 2005,10:28)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ May 12 2005,21:24)]You would replace it with what?
The fine details of what can be taken from what we are supposed to be/say we are, as a country. Its the understanding that conditions have deteriorated so far down that something needs to happen. WHAT would be better than the current free fall.

I am convinced this Iraq fiasco will turn out for the worse, as it is doing now. This is however a good thing for we obviously need to be taught the Viet Nam lesson every generation or so. I just wonder how many more years of it must pass before the people start to reject our government's failure there, as was the case in V. N. Read my signature.
I find this rather amazing. Here we have someone that not only distrusts our government, but dislikes it also. This is not to say that he hasn't made some interesting points, but I would hate to be that paranoid. But take keen notice that he dislikes it so much that he STILL hold a US AMATEUR license. I also wonder if he and others like him ever actively participated in the democratic process like voting, joining a Political Action Committe, or getting involved with a candidate's election? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

It's one thing to be a "keyboard commando" and post your dislikes about the present situation. ANYONE can do that. It's entirely another matter to have the COURAGE to be involved to affect change.

Freedom requires eternal vigilance. Nothing wrong expressing an opinion and drawing attention to a problem. But it takes more that just whining and sniveling about it. It requires ACTION in a DEMOCRATIC process.

Post to be filed under "For What It's Worth".

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ May 12 2005,20:52)]
That is, not everyone in the world... desires a 3-car garage full of SUV's.
True, true. I'll fill mine with a Miata, a Viper and a 'Vette. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ain't that America, Home of the Free...

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ May 15 2005,20:04)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ May 12 2005,20:52)]
That is, not everyone in the world... desires a 3-car garage full of SUV's.
True, true. I'll fill mine with a Miata, a Viper and a 'Vette. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ain't that America, Home of the Free...
Little pink houses for you and me...

(All due respect for Mr. Mellencamp) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Rob

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 08 2005,09:23)]When your government perceives you as the threat, then YOU will be treated like the prisoners at Abu Graib & Guantanamo. And it will all be done in the name of national security. Do you trust them 100% in all they do and will do? Then you got nothing to worry about.
Waco or Ruby Ridge ring a bell?

JTY is your point to overlook what the Clinton/Reno debacle did and go after the mess from a year ago and it's somehow the fault of the current administration?

Just curious... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[kc7jty]

klb: It is by getting involved in the guaranteed outcome of current politics that one who sees a desperate need for change will be most disappointed.....in fact he will be aiding the very thing he seeks to defeat.

I opposed the Viet Nam war. I participated in the anti war rally in DC back when Nixxon (mispelled purposely) was prez in 1969. Tell me what I heard so many times back then....I'm unamerican and should leave the country. Should we still be in Viet Nam today or can you let that one go?

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ May 15 2005,09:31)]Just curious... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Dear Just curious:
# # #Notice the word government in my original post that you yourself have quoted.
# # #Something to help you:
# # # # # # # # #Were Clinton and Janet baby part of any government at any time in their careers?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif???

BTW: Waco & Ruby Ridge do ring a bell. I was about 50 miles from Ruby Ridge when it was going down. I know people in the area.

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 16 2005,04:38)]Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ May 15 2005,09:31)]Just curious... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Dear Just curious:
# # #Notice the word government in my original post that you yourself have quoted.
# # #Something to help you:
# # # # # # # # #Were Clinton and Janet baby part of any government at any time in their careers???

BTW: Waco & Ruby Ridge do ring a bell. I was about 50 miles from Ruby Ridge when it was going down. I know people in the area.
You also did not leave out neither the Republicans and Dems in one of your posts, but what was motive behind the posting?

Just a non-chalant jab at Bush and the military, while painting with a broad brush that it's strictly the government's fault?

Let's not be smug now jty...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 16 2005,04:38)]Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ May 15 2005,09:31)]Just curious... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Dear Just curious:
# # #Notice the word government in my original post that you yourself have quoted.
# # #Something to help you:
# # # # # # # # #Were Clinton and Janet baby part of any government at any time in their careers?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif???

BTW: Waco & Ruby Ridge do ring a bell. I was about 50 miles from Ruby Ridge when it was going down. I know people in the area.
Something more close to home is I know a FBI agent who was my parents neighbor that lived in N. Virginia that went on that trip to Ruby Ridge.

[G0GQK]

If some people who post on QRZ regard Abu Graibh as a normal prison, that is the reason why many throughout the world fear the US government. Not Americans, the US government.

There are many Americans who fear the US government

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ May 15 2005,12:14)]Something more close to home is I know a FBI agent who was my parents neighbor that lived in N. Virginia that went on that trip to Ruby Ridge.
Did he survive?

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ May 15 2005,14:45)]There are many Americans who fear the US government
Yes...but they don't let on they do.

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ May 16 2005,09:14)]Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ May 15 2005,12:14)]Something more close to home is I know a FBI agent who was my parents neighbor that lived in N. Virginia that went on that trip to Ruby Ridge.
Did he survive?
As a matter of fact he did. The impression he left with me is that he didn't agree with being there. I never asked and didn't feel it was appropriate. Kind of rude to do so...

What's more ironic is he now lives in Omaha, NE where he's originally from. He used to be a cop for Omaha PD before going to the fed's. I live on the other side of town down here in Bellevue, NE. I can't get away from this guy. Big Cornhusker fan might I add.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ May 15 2005,21:25)]As a matter of fact he did. #The impression he left with me is that he didn't agree with being there. #I never asked and didn't feel it was appropriate. #Kind of rude to do so...

What's more ironic is he now lives in Omaha, NE where he's originally from. #He used to be a cop for Omaha PD before going to the fed's. #I live on the other side of town down here in Bellevue, NE. #I can't get away from this guy. #Big Cornhusker fan might I add.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
With the impression he left you I'd be very tempted to draw him out. Course it depends on how well you know him.....then again my being overly inquisitive about everything, and not being afraid to discuss whatever has gotten me into hot water more than once.
I find a free and honest exchange of beliefs and ideas with others most stimulating. To me its part of being American. I think it should be a requirement, not something to be avoided as unmannerly.