View Full Version : Undocumented Aliens
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 04:59 AM
I believe a rock is solid and the ocean is wet. Apparently I’m ignorant. I once though a person who enters this country illegally was breaking the law. Apparently that is no longer reality. A person entering America without permission is now called undocumented. If I were to equate undocumented with illegal, I will be labeled a racist. I’m so lost in this America.
K6BBC
k0ews
05-08-2005, 05:09 AM
You may be labeled a racist, but that doesn't mean that you are wrong.
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 05:13 AM
Here is the bottom line – I DON’T CARE WHAT I’M LABELED ANYMORE. It’s time to stand up and take this society back.
KC0LFV
05-08-2005, 05:21 AM
They ARE illegal. I refer to them as illegal aliens in school, and have gotten chastised for it.
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 05:22 AM
Quote[/b] (KC0LFV @ May 07 2005,22:21)]They ARE illegal.
See, you’re a racist too.
WA5KRP
05-08-2005, 05:55 AM
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 07 2005,23:59)]I believe a rock is solid and the ocean is wet. #Apparently I’m ignorant. #I once though a person who enters this country illegally was breaking the law. #Apparently that is no longer reality. #A person entering America without permission is now called undocumented. #If I were to equate undocumented with illegal, I will be labeled a racist. #I’m so lost in this America.
K6BBC
You are not ignorant. You're right. And thanks to the latter-day Minutemen there is a growing tide of outrage about the permeability of our borders. Bush is WAY off base on his border policies.
Those policies will come back and haunt his successor Republican presidential candidate. NOBODY in America is comfortable with wide open borders and there will be a growing rebellion against them.
WA5KRP
Texas
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 06:04 AM
Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 07 2005,22:55)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 07 2005,23:59)]I believe a rock is solid and the ocean is wet. #Apparently I’m ignorant. #I once though a person who enters this country illegally was breaking the law. #Apparently that is no longer reality. #A person entering America without permission is now called undocumented. #If I were to equate undocumented with illegal, I will be labeled a racist. #I’m so lost in this America.
K6BBC
You are not ignorant. #You're right. #And thanks to the latter-day Minutemen there is a growing tide of outrage about the permeability of our borders. #Bush is WAY off base on his border policies.
Those policies will come back and haunt his successor Republican presidential candidate. #NOBODY in America is comfortable with wide open borders and there will be a growing rebellion against them.
WA5KRP
Texas
I hope you are right KRP. I would hope we Americans know right from wrong and it is not right to allow this invasion, because that’s what it is, to continue. Apparently, illegal immigration is costing California 10 billion a year. And major kudos to Governor Swarchenegger for sticking up for the minutemen.
K6BBC
ke4zhn
05-08-2005, 10:07 AM
And another thing....why is it that our own government tries to ram a foreign language down our throats to make it easier to communicate with people who arent even supposed to be here?
W5NIG
05-08-2005, 10:47 AM
zhn,
...because your government wants you to be able to communicate with your fellow worker who is paying his taxes with a stolen SS#, and his other 5 friends that are at different jobs using the same number...that uncle same knows about but doesn't care.
Illegal immigration and workers may hurt tax paying citizens in the long run but it's tons of money in pockets somewhere or it woudn't have gone on this long.
N2ACX
05-08-2005, 11:06 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
We as LEGAL Citizens of this country will end up in court or jail or fines or all three for infractions of a local ordance such as leaving our trash out before 8pm the night b4 trash day before these Illegal Aliens' will be for violating a FEDERAL law which says.........entering the country illegally is a crime punishable by a short incarceration period, (pictures, fingerprints, and a free balloon) then deportation.
What a joke, when we as the citizens watch our own government VIOLATE IT'S OWN LAWS. Then they tell us to "Follow the Law"
How many United States of America citizens have you seen this week getting a speeding ticket and paying close to $150 for the fine? Or, like in Jersey a $596 fine for exceeding the speed limit in a work zone...... while passing illegals making money and using our healthcare facilities for free, as well as many other services?
Well, like "they' say, "nothing in life is fair" and the same apparently can be said for government, "nothing in government is fair" So either you stand up in protest.... or stay the "H" home and play with your toys, which is it going to be?
73 Gary N2ACX
I have been told by the Border Patrol that they don't like me looking for them while I am carrying a gun. I have truned a few over to the Border Patrol in the past. Note that carrying a gun in the open (handgun in a holster) is legal here in AZ. No permit required.
I informed the Border Patrol that I really did not care what they liked. I was not trying to be friends with these people. If they are in and around my property, they are going back where they came from and if they get agressive with me I will defend myself.
We need stop illegals but the #only way to do that is dry the jobs up. Start treating the employment of these people like we do drugs now.
Put the people in jail that hire them and confiscate the holdings of the business. If they can't get jobs, most will stop coming.
Note that 25% (About 260,000)of the arrests made in this country were made here in my county and area. A full 50% of the 1.1 million arrested last year nationwide were arrested in AZ. These are numbers released by various agencies like the Border Patrol and Homeland Security, I did not make them up. PS, if the catch 25% of those that come here, that means another 3,000,000 made it, each year!!
You can't afford enough Border Patrol to stop this. We must stop the employers, period. The laws are on the books and they are not enforced. We need to enforce them and if that still does not work we need to increase the serverity of the penalty for the employers.
These people can make more money here than they can to the South. So they are not going to stop coming. We can't throw them all in jail as we can't afford that either.
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 07 2005,23:59)]I believe a rock is solid and the ocean is wet. Apparently I’m ignorant. I once though a person who enters this country illegally was breaking the law. Apparently that is no longer reality. A person entering America without permission is now called undocumented. If I were to equate undocumented with illegal, I will be labeled a racist. I’m so lost in this America.
K6BBC
Where is my PDA, I need to mark this date as one one and only time I think that I have agreed with K6BBC.
SoCal, it is time to wake up and smell the tamales, same goes for all the border states.
NO blanket amnesty.
NO drivers licenses.
NO tax refunds for illegal use of a social security number (oh, maybe you have not heard, the plan is that an illegal who has used a stolen SSN, can file an amended return once they get a legal SSN and request a refund).
Send the bill to Vincente Fox for all the illegals held in US jails.
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 05:46 PM
Quote[/b] (W5NIG @ May 08 2005,03:47)]Illegal immigration and workers may hurt tax paying citizens in the long run but it's tons of money in pockets somewhere or it woudn't have gone on this long.
It’s great for the business man who can hire a hungry, willing, hard-working illegal, rather than a fat American who wants to be treated with respect. #It’s just a big give-away #to business that’s subsidized by you tax dollars. #Do you have any idea how many children of illegals are being educated in California at $8,000 a pop per year? #Now figure these people are mostly from a religious group that does not believe in birth control – DO THE MATH!!!
K6BBC
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 05:51 PM
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,10:46)]Quote[/b] (W5NIG @ May 08 2005,03:47)]Illegal immigration and workers may hurt tax paying citizens in the long run but it's tons of money in pockets somewhere or it woudn't have gone on this long.
It’s great for the business man who can hire a hungry, willing, hard-working illegal, rather than a fat American who wants to be treated with respect. #It’s just a big give-away #to business that’s subsidized by you tax dollars. #Do you have any idea how many children of illegals are being educated in California at $8,000 a pop per year? #Now figure these people are mostly from a religious group that does not believe in birth control – DO THE MATH!!!
K6BBC
K6BBC,
you are clearly a race baiting, hate mongering, fascist.
K6BBC
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 05:53 PM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 08 2005,10:48)]X E N O P H O B I A...
Notice how the name calling starts.
Frankly, call away because I don't give a DAMN any more. I'm mad and I've had enough.
K6BBC
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,09:53)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 08 2005,10:48)]X E N O P H O B I A...
Notice how the name calling starts.
Frankly, call away because I don't give a DAMN any more. #I'm mad and I've had enough.
K6BBC
Did I address you?
NO.
Xenophobia is a time honored tradition in California. The reach stretches back to the beginnings of statehood. More recently, it worked for Pete Wilson in 1994, and Arnold is trying it now. Whenever a politicians standing in this state is weak, the specter of "immigration reform" is whipped out.
If Wilson had and Arnold would address the root cause of illegal immigration, this wouldn't be an issue. The problem is to address the situation would make thier biggest supporters angry by shutting down businesses that employ these people.
Can't do that. Big loss of campaign cash...
Dave WX7B
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 06:06 PM
And another thing… I believe most American live between in the area between left and right wing extremes. I would recommend the following book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec....2292827 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761563733/qid=1115575305/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/002-0071278-2292827)
for a look at how the left extreme is trying to control your speech.
For a look at what the right is doing, watch CSPAN or listen to the Senate Leader Frist. It’s all of us in the middle who allow these wackos to run about without control.
Do not let the name caller control your thought!
Enough is enough!
K6BBC
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 06:07 PM
Don’t pull this weasel nonsense Dave. You were addressing me by inference. Don’t play word games. Everybody see through it.
K6BBC
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,10:07)]Don’t pull this weasel nonsense Dave. #You were addressing me by inference. #Don’t play word games. #Everybody see through it.
K6BBC
Nothing "weasel" about it at all, Tony. My comment was directed at the whole tone of the thread. If you took it personally, I apologize.
California history is what it is...If you disagree, that's your perogative, but it doesn't change the facts. This issue has been manipulated by politicians since statehood. The only thing that's changed is the ethnicity of the targets...
Dave WX7B
k6pme
05-08-2005, 06:33 PM
I believe the current PC phrase is "undocumented immigrant". (According to the Sacramento Bee here in NorCal) I think it only just a year or two ago that it was still illegal alien. But now it is "immigrant' and since this country was founded upon immigration it will soon become only an issue of 'documentation'. Soon thereafter it will be 'guest worker'.
When I was growing up it was 'wetback', later it became 'migrant farm worker', that later evolved into something I don't remember, then 'illegal alien' and now 'undocumented immigrant'.
Call it what you will but one fact remains.... Those that rely on them for labor benefit while the taxpayers pay for it with health care, education, ect ect....
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 06:44 PM
Dave,
Give me a number. How many illegal aliens do you want to take care of?
Tony
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,10:44)]Dave,
Give me a number. #How many illegal aliens do you want to take care of? #
Tony
Tony:
The obvious answer to that set up question is zero.
I believe we're focusing on the wrong people by targeting the immigrants themselves in the immigration battle. The real battle is elsewhere.
It's real simple. Dry up the jobs, and they won't come. No politician is willing to take on the agricultural interests (among others) who employ these people. It's easier to focus on what services illegal immigrants do get (which I think is over-hyped, but I don't have any direct proof at the moment) than to legislate and enforce labor laws aimed at offending businesses. Agriculture and the garment industry are the two main offenders, but nothing is ever done.
Why? Because those industries have significant clout in Republican circles and some in Democratic circles as well.
I'll have to give W savvy points for one thing. He was able to appease his business interest friends in Texas and the latinos at the same time. How? By avoiding the extreme Wilsonesque rhetoric we often hear in the great state of California. Bush took care of his friends and got votes from a historically hostile (to Republicans) voting constituency.
Dave WX7B
k0ews
05-08-2005, 07:17 PM
Gotta agree with WX7B on this one. My hometown in Iowa has seen a huge influx of Mexican immigration in the last decade. So much that the INS officers don't even bother to do anything anymore. A lot of them are legal, but a lot aren't. Where are they working? Packing plants. How do they know that there is work at the packing plants? Word of mouth, and the companies advertise.
They could get these companies very easily on violations of RICO statutes and start fining them X amount of dollars per day for illegal labor, but the political will isn't there; too much money from the lobbyists to both parites.
Neither party has the courage to take a stand on this, and this isn't a partisan issue, it's an American issue.
It was actually a Republican, Ronald Reagan, who gave the first blanket amnesty for illegal immigration.
I am not anti-Mexican. If they are legal immigrants and pay back into the system that they take from through payroll deduction, than fine, but if they are not legal, we need to do something about it.
Hey! I have it now.
If they are caught within 25 miles of the borders, where the Border Patrol and other federal agencies can come on your land and look all they want (can't go inside structures though), they are illegal aliens we send them back.
If, on the other hand, they get beyond the 25 miles, they will hence forth be called "undocumented aliens".
Are we in agreement???
To bad too many that come through my immediate area find themselves in CA. I think I heard that CA has more than any other state?
I think that depends on how many we have coming through. May is the highest month for illegal entry into the US from the South. This time of the year, by Border Patrol estimates, means that we have some 800-1200 per night coming over into Cochise County.
n0jaa
05-08-2005, 08:41 PM
Quote[/b] (KG6QQL @ May 08 2005,07:33)]Before going any further, a warning... or disclaimer.
If you don't like what I have to say, don't read this post. #I you read this post, then don't bellyache and complain about it!
Paul.
---------------------
I believe the current PC phrase is "undocumented immigrant". (According to the Sacramento Bee here in NorCal) I think it only just a year or two ago that it was still illegal alien. But now it is "immigrant' and since this country was founded upon immigration it will soon become only an issue of 'documentation'. Soon thereafter it will be 'guest worker'.
I couldn't care less about "PC". #Being "politically correct" is nothing more than a load of crap. #I am politically incorrect and proud of it!
We need to just go back to what we had. #An immigrant is someone who comes into the USA legally from another country and registers as a resident alien. #A visitor is someone from another country who is here temporarily on a Visa. #An illegal immigrant is just that... someone who has entered this country illegally. #An illegal immigrant is nothing short of a criminal.
When I was growing up it was 'wetback', later it became 'migrant farm worker', that later evolved into something I don't remember, then 'illegal alien' and now 'undocumented immigrant'.
Yepper, that's the leftist "PC" crowd for ya'. #They can't bear to have anything illegal, so they legalize everything.
Even Libertarians aren't that bad!
Call it what you will but one fact remains.... Those that rely on them for labor benefit while the taxpayers pay for it with health care, education, ect ect....
Call it what you will but one fact remains.... Those that rely on them for labor benefit while the taxpayers pay for it with health care, education, ect ect....
Before going any further, a warning... or disclaimer.
If you don't like what I have to say, don't read this post. #If you read this post, thoughtful and meaningful debate is welcome, but no bellyaching, complaining or thoughtless remarks are allowed!
Paul.
---------------------
Soapbox mode ON.
Quote[/b] ]I believe the current PC phrase is "undocumented immigrant". (According to the Sacramento Bee here in NorCal) I think it only just a year or two ago that it was still illegal alien. But now it is "immigrant' and since this country was founded upon immigration it will soon become only an issue of 'documentation'. Soon thereafter it will be 'guest worker'.
I couldn't care less about "PC". #Being "politically correct" is nothing more than a load of crap. #I am politically incorrect and proud of it!
We need to just go back to what we had. #An immigrant is someone who comes into the USA legally from another country and registers as a resident alien. #A visitor is someone from another country who is here temporarily on a Visa. #An illegal immigrant is just that... someone who has entered this country illegally. #An illegal immigrant is nothing short of a criminal.
Quote[/b] ]When I was growing up it was 'wetback', later it became 'migrant farm worker', that later evolved into something I don't remember, then 'illegal alien' and now 'undocumented immigrant'.
Yepper, that's the leftist "PC" crowd for ya'. #They can't bear to have anything illegal, so they legalize everything.
Even Libertarians aren't that bad!
Quote[/b] ]Call it what you will but one fact remains.... Those that rely on them for labor benefit while the taxpayers pay for it with health care, education, ect ect....
Which of course is not right. #If they want to come to this country, that is fine. #They can do it LEGALLY! #Let them register for their green card, and pay their own way. #If they want to become a citizen, then they can go through whatever is required to become naturalized. #I am getting sick and tired of paying taxes for benefits that illegal alien criminals are getting for free! #If that's not politically correct, then so be it.
And yes, I have already contacted my Congress Critters and told them what I think, not that it matters. #Talking to them is like talking to a brick wall.
One other thing... I suppose this could come under the category of "rant."
I have noticed that most people here (in the Americas anyway) refer to themselves as "Americans." #While there is some truth to that, we need to clarify this a little.
Any person who resides in any country in North or South America is an American. #However, if you reside (legally) in the United States of America, then you are a US citizen!
It is amazing to me how so many people fail to #understand this little fact.
Paul, N0JAA.
Soapbox mode OFF.
A good documentary for everyone to see would be "A Day Without a Mexican".. Perhaps some of you might change your minds.
Quote[/b] (ke4zhn @ May 08 2005,03:07)]And another thing....why is it that our own government tries to ram a foreign language down our throats to make it easier to communicate with people who arent even supposed to be here?
Yeah, but they've backed off a little on that; Dineh kids are no longer whipped for speaking Navajo at school.
Cortland
K9STH
05-08-2005, 09:56 PM
Cool it on the rhetoric that is starting to get personal. Illegal immigrants, undocumented aliens, or what ever you wish to call them are definitely a problem in the United States. The topic is allowed in this particular forum. But, personal attacks are not.
Again, a "word to the wise is sufficient".
Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 10:05 PM
Dave,
Perhaps we agree more than we disagree. However I am going to state one major difference. You would like to lay this more on the Republicans than the democrats. I disagree. The two parties are equally corrupt. It is afterall the democrats who want to award the illegals with driver’s licenses. But, you have nailed my frustration. Which one of the two parties represents ME? I now firmly believe they are both part of the same corruption.
K6BBC
k6bbc
05-08-2005, 10:11 PM
Quote[/b] (KD5OWO @ May 08 2005,13:48)]A good documentary for everyone to see would be "A Day Without a Mexican".. #Perhaps some of you might change your minds.
This is not a discussion about Mexicans. #I’m not arguing anyone’s contribution to our society. #The point is illegal immigrants are being used to drive down the prevailing wage because they will work for less money. #If this labor force were not avlible, the wages offered would be higher. #So be it. #Business is taking advantage of this situation and that is wrong. #
This discussion is not about race; it’s economics and politics.
K6BBC
KE7DFP
05-08-2005, 10:13 PM
1/10th of all Mexican citizens live in the United States. One third of all violent felons in our prisons are Mexican citizens. America must budget, for it's schools ,1.5 x the cost ,for each illegal (Mexican Citizen), that it spends on an American child. So every two illegals is stealing the funding for 3 U.S. children by sitting in our classrooms. Do not buy into the nonsense either that they are all just hardworking poor unfortunates who are here to work. Even if they were ,it, doesn"t give them the right to break in, and it's certainly not my responsiblity to pay for them. Millions of criminals have invaded our borders. How many Americans have been beaten, robbed, raped, and murdered because of the goverment's lax immigration policy? Our right to live unmolested far exceeds their "right to have a job." They have a country. They are Mexico's responsibility. I don't care if a housewife in L.A. has to do her own housework or pay a decent wage to get someone else to do it. . If we need workers we bring them in on buses and set them up in work camps. We only let in what we need and no, they can't bring their families, and no, we aren't going to pay for their education, health care and incarceration costs if incurred. They have schools, doctors, and prisons in Mexico,thankyou. Both sides are wrong on this one, but the liberals want us to play "the Emporer's New Clothes". Hey, if the Emperor doen't have any clothes on, we should say he doesn't have any clothes on!. On top of this, there's a whole national security issue; and we ARE at a time of war. Our enemy IS coming across that border. Would it really be so unreasonable to mine every inch of it? Plenty of warning signs, though. Pellagro!! Pellagro!! EL BOOMO!!!. That's what I would expect if I was trying to break in to another country. I support our troups, and our Border Patrolmen. I will adress the "we are a nation of immigrants" next post. But as far as the "No body else will do those jobs", we would be a far sight ahead by taking a fraction of the cost of having these illegal (criminal)Mexican citizens here, and using it to subsidize wages on the low end for American Citizens . You've got to remember, paying a Mexican citizen 10x the low wage in Mexico, is like paying an American ten times minimum wage, or about 60-80 dollars an Hr. ! So keep that in perspective , too.
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,14:05)]Dave,
Perhaps we agree more than we disagree. #However I am going to state one major difference. #You would like to lay this more on the Republicans than the democrats. # I disagree. #The two parties are equally corrupt. #It is afterall the democrats who want to award the illegals with driver’s licenses. #But, you have nailed my frustration. #Which one of the two parties represents ME? #I now firmly believe they are both part of the same corruption.
K6BBC
Tony:
You are correct, we may agree more than we disagree. For example, I'm not a big fan of the driver's license thing either. Having said that, if the state (or federal gov't) is going to allow these people to BE here, a driver's license is at least one way to track them, whether they be Mexicano, Irish, Canadians, etc. etc. etc. With a driver's license, they buy cars. You can't register a car in CA without insurance. At least in Sonoma County, if your car is out of reg for more than a month, you WILL get pulled over, so they have to buy insurance. Insurance protects against accidents they might cause. Less of a societal drain if they hurt someone because they have insurance.
This isn't an easy issue. It'd be real easy to just say "kick 'em all out" and everything would be fine. Despite some of the stuff we hear about immigrants sucking off of CA's benefits, they also contribute to the economy. It's a two-way street and the government and business interests know that. You kick out the illegals, and the economies of El Centro, Brawley, Calexico, San Ysidro, Indio and most of San Diego and Imperial counties start to dry up. Do the locals and their representatives want that to happen? No. Illegals contribute FAR more to the economy than they take out from government handouts, and I think anyone who lives in an area populated with them (as I do) knows that.
The trick is to replace cheap immigrant labor with domestic legal labor. There's no incentive for businesses to do that in the current environment. Republicans tend to support (and receive contributions from) the business interests. Some Democrats, seeing the political hay they can harvest from some of the xenophobic noise from the other side will garner sympathy to the "lenient" view toward immigration.
I think both sides are culpable. I just object to the focus being on the people rather than the businesses that employ the people. If the businesses were monitored more closely or shut down, we wouldn't have nearly the problem we do now. We WILL pay more for lettuce and California wine, but that's the trade-off.
Dave WX7B
The last time I checked, Mexicans can still get drivers licensees in Mexico that are usable here for the purpose of driving, (buying auto insurance), or identification while visiting our country. #What the illegal immigrants want is an American drivers license which will entitle them to American benefits and American travel privileges. #Remember that our drivers license is valid identification for airport security, unemployment and welfare.
I read last week that oil is Mexico's number one source of foreign income. #Number two is money sent home by illegal Mexican workers in the USA. #The same article stated that 70% of Mexican immigrant workers in the USA are illegal................. as in they broke our laws to get here and are continuing to do so.
#Illegal immigration costs California 10 Billion dollars each year and is growing.
President Bush where are you?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif # # # # #Earth to White House is anybody home?
73,
Terry, K7FE
W5MJL
05-09-2005, 03:53 AM
Well I still say there is no way to stop people living in poverty looking for opportunity. Our forefathers came here legally only because there were no immigration laws on the books. #In fact, there wasn't even an immigration department in the government. # We have to find a way to let these people come in legally within a reasonable length of time. #They will pay their way with taxes, and they will save our social security system if we let them. #If we keep doing what we are doing, we will bankrupt this country.
k6pme
05-09-2005, 04:02 AM
n0jaa,
Unfortunately, I believe you misunderstood me as I agree with you 100% if not more. Perhaps the next time I'm being extremely sarcastic and somewhat cynical I should indicate something to that effect.
Just about anyone that know's me can tell you that I'm NOT leftist PC by any means. If anything I'm hardcore rightist redneck.
I just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding. Take it in the spirit of grace and tact, that is what this post is meant to be.
KC0NBW
05-09-2005, 04:04 AM
how about if we call them ''dorsally damp refugees ''? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
The auto insurance game is played like this:
A Mexican citizen (legal or otherwise) working here , who is under 25 years of age driving in California would pay an insurance premium of $2000 to $2500 per year.
So he buys a currently registered car for $500 to $1000, never puts it in his name and drives it uninsured. He can safely drive it until the registration expires and if he is cautious, for several years. (Have you noticed latino drivers driving under the speed limit?) If stopped and the car is impounded, he buys another car. It is still cheaper than paying the insurance and the traffic citation. Worst case he goes home to Mexico for a few weeks and enters the USA as a different person.
Juan this week and Jose the next. These guys are like phantoms. If Juan or Jose are involved in an accident that requires medical attention, they just go to the hospital emergency room where treatment is FREE, so who needs insurance.
$10 Billion loss each year in California alone, just say no!
73,
Terry, K7FE
Quote[/b] (K7FE @ May 09 2005,05:39)]The auto insurance game is played like this:
A Mexican citizen (legal or otherwise) working here , who is under 25 years of age driving in California would pay an insurance premium of $2000 to $2500 per year.
So he buys a currently registered car for $500 to $1000, never puts it in his name and drives it uninsured. He can safely drive it until the registration expires and if he is cautious, for several years. (Have you noticed latino drivers driving under the speed limit?) If stopped and the car is impounded, he buys another car. It is still cheaper than paying the insurance and the traffic citation. Worst case he goes home to Mexico for a few weeks and enters the USA as a different person.
Juan this week and Jose the next. These guys are like phantoms. If Juan or Jose are involved in an accident that requires medical attention, they just go to the hospital emergency room where treatment is FREE, so who needs insurance.
$10 Billion loss each year in California alone, just say no!
73,
Terry, K7FE
Terry,
Very good point.
My youngest son, was involved in 5 accidents. 4 were NOT his fault. All involved mexicans( can't say if they were Illegal or legal) and NOT ONE had insurance. Luckily we had Uninsured Motorist insurance which covered our cost 100% even on the one that was my sons fault. So I agree, The best way to solve this problem is for the White House to close the borders and Quit talking of Amnesty again. I work with a Legal immigrant from Mexico and he tells me that there are many coming here right now in hopes that Bush gets his way with the Amnsety program. That way, they all will get a free pass just like Reagan did in the 80's.
The Problem is with the businesses that hire them, Not the individual that comes here.
Gordon
n6wk
Quote[/b] (KG6QQL @ May 08 2005,11:33)]I believe the current PC phrase is "undocumented immigrant". (According to the Sacramento Bee here in NorCal) I think it only just a year or two ago that it was still illegal alien. But now it is "immigrant' and since this
FWIW, my (former) in-laws probably still call border crossers "mojados;" it's only when terms cross into English that folks get PC about them. No esta problema . . . .
(From Blazing Saddles, Mel Brooks, as Indian Chief: "Schvarzes! Loz im gehn! Dey darker'n us!")
Now things gets "interesting," because the only way out for some of our benefit programs is to tax more workers -- and if people who already live here don't work, we'll have to import others to pay for our bennies. (Predicted in 1962 in the same February issue of Time that had a picture of John Glenn on the cover.)
So... Ut veniant omnes!
Cortland
KA5S
KG4CGC
05-09-2005, 06:46 AM
Here in the southeast, it is a mecca for illegal immigrants. The town of Berea has been renamed Little Mexico by the locals. In Spartanburg the problem of gang culture has set in and is the headquarters for Batos Locos. While working with some of our Latin brethren, I noticed they would practice writing signatures. Several different names they would practice. Hmmm, must have been instructions in the brochure.
I hear a lot of people talking about illegals holding jobs with false IDs and such. That is true in a lot of cases.
In many cities there is a work force of workers that compete for jobs daily under the table. They are paid in cash and pay no taxes and have no benefits.
Quite common here in AZ
KW4MW
05-09-2005, 12:15 PM
I don't think that anyone blames the illegals from coming north for jobs, if we were in their shoes we would do the same thing for our families.
We should -
(1) #Enforce employment laws:
# # #a. #require all employers to certify that their employees are registered workers.
# # #b. #require all employers to pay minimum wages
# # #c. #require all employers to deduct for social security, state and federal taxes, etc.
# # #d. #provide for the general health and safety of their employees in accordance with standardized guidelines.
# # #
Employers found not in compliance should be fined in an amount greatly exceeding whatever excess profits they were anticipating by acting illegally.
(2) #Require all alien workers to register with the Immigration service
# # #a. #announce a grace period of six months in which all illegals must register
# # #b. #registered workers will be given a permit to work for a period of two years, renewable every two years.
# # #c. #registered workers must report their whereabouts every 3 months or be subject to deportation
# # #d. #any alien worker, registered or not that commits a felony will be tried under US laws and if convicted
# # # # # may be incarcerated after sentencing and will ultimately be deported and not allowed back into the US.
Local, state and federal facilities that provide health and social services should be re-imbursed.
Each agency should keep complete records of all such services and submit them yearly for re-imbursement.
Re-imbursement funds would be deducted from the foreign aid that we are 'donating' to their home countries, Mexico, Honduras, Guatamala, etc.
kl7aj
05-09-2005, 03:33 PM
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 07 2005,21:59)]I believe a rock is solid and the ocean is wet. #Apparently I’m ignorant. #I once though a person who enters this country illegally was breaking the law. #Apparently that is no longer reality. #A person entering America without permission is now called undocumented. #If I were to equate undocumented with illegal, I will be labeled a racist. #I’m so lost in this America.
K6BBC
They're still wetbacks in my book.
eric
And then, on top of it all, they'll want to get their "no-code" tech license so they can get on Echolink!
KE7DFP
05-09-2005, 04:18 PM
Quote[/b] (n4rll @ May 09 2005,08:44)]And then, on top of it all, they'll want to get their "no-code" tech license so they can get on Echolink! No, the F.C.C. will actually make them prove citizenship to receive an American license! What a concept. They would qualify, however for a taxpayer billed interpreter and attorney to contest it.
o, the F.C.C. no actually make them prove citizenship
kf6rdn
05-09-2005, 04:24 PM
Quote[/b] (KC0LFV @ May 07 2005,22:21)]They ARE illegal. #I refer to them as illegal aliens in school, and have gotten chastised for it.
You should then ask, "Oh.. sorry, are they then legal, legally here?"?
Or maybe not.. #I suppose I shouldn't encourage someone to get in trouble at school, but I tend to get pissy at the media when they say "undocumented". #Like, someone just forgot the "readme.txt" file on them.
The only "media" that I know of is kfi that calls them illegal. #They call THEM racist too.
OMG what's with the echolink crap, that's getting worse then code/no code. Use echolink if you like it, don't use it if you dont.
W5MJL
05-09-2005, 04:27 PM
The only documented illegal alien in the U.S. was ET. He returned to his homeland because he was intelligent enough to make a homebrew radio without the internet. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
k6bbc
05-09-2005, 04:51 PM
Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ May 09 2005,09:24)]The only "media" that I know of is kfi that calls them illegal. #They call THEM racist too.
KFI 640 ROCKS!!! John and Ken - 3-7 PM. If you want to listen, go to kfi640.com and listen on the INternet.
K6BBC
kf6rdn
05-09-2005, 05:05 PM
Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 09 2005,09:51)]Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ May 09 2005,09:24)]The only "media" that I know of is kfi that calls them illegal. #They call THEM racist too.
KFI 640 ROCKS!!! #John and Ken - 3-7 PM. #If you want to listen, go to kfi640.com and listen on the INternet.
K6BBC
LOVE J & K. #Fav though is Bill Handel. #He cracks me up. #But I like Jon & Ken for riling people on issues. #I think they were just about responsible for the Davis' recall.
I can't quite stomach Dr. Laura or Rush Limbaugh though.
Used to love Phil Hendrie, but he left, and I work nites so am asleep by then anyway.
K7JBQ
05-09-2005, 06:27 PM
Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ May 09 2005,09:18)]Quote[/b] (n4rll @ May 09 2005,08:44)]And then, on top of it all, they'll want to get their "no-code" tech license so they can get on Echolink! # # # # # # # # # # No, the F.C.C. will actually make them prove citizenship to receive an American license! #What a concept. #They would qualify, however for a #taxpayer billed interpreter and attorney to contest it.
o, the F.C.C. no #actually make them prove citizenship
Nope.
You don't have to be a citizen of the United States to qualify for a U.S. amateur radio license. As long as you're not a representative of a foreign country, that is.
73,
Bill
K9STH
05-09-2005, 08:03 PM
If you are not a citizen of the United States and have a vailid amateur radio operator's license from your home country, you can usually operate from the United States under various agreements. Most of those agreements allow full privileges. However, if you get a United States amateur radio operator's license then you are limited to those privileges granted by that license. Once you have obtained an FCC issued license you CANNOT claim privileges under your original license.
There have been numerous amateurs who have found this out the "hard way". That is, they decided to get an FCC license before checking out the entire picture.
Glen, K9STH
n0jaa
05-09-2005, 08:56 PM
Quote[/b] (KG6QQL @ May 08 2005,17:02)]n0jaa,
Unfortunately, I believe you misunderstood me as I agree with you 100% if not more. Perhaps the next time I'm being extremely sarcastic and somewhat cynical I should indicate something to that effect.
Just about anyone that know's me can tell you that I'm NOT leftist PC by any means. If anything I'm hardcore rightist redneck.
I just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding. Take it in the spirit of grace and tact, that is what this post is meant to be.
My apologies if you thought that I thought that. I did not infer that you were of the PC crowd, I only intended to comment on the general PC comment.
My intent is always to comment on the issue, not on the individual. There are issues that I do feel strongly about, that I do go a little overboard at times, and this is one of them.
I've never been known to be the most diplomatic person on the planet! I share Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott's viewpoint on it: "The only diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank!" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Paul, N0JAA.
W5HTW
05-09-2005, 10:10 PM
It is an untruth that Americans will not take those low-paying jobs. First the agricultural minimum wage is lower than the federal minimum wage for other types of work. Yet, I have been in agricultural fields where all of the workers were either White (US) or Black. The will take the jobs if the jobs are available. It is, though, true that the Mexican will come here and accept even less than the agricultural minimum wage, which makes the jobs no longer available to Americans.
Leaving the fields, it is also a falacy that the illegal alien continues to work for very low wages. In a quite large percentage, he may start that way, but he will work up to supervisor level in construction, laundry, auto repair, and other labor fields, and will be earning ten to fifteen dollars an hour. I know some of those personally. In a few cases he will even move into union labor and earn in excess of 20 dollars an hour. I don't personally know any of those, but have seen the complaints by Americans.
It is not by any means a totally economic situation, either. A good many of the Hispanics in the US are here to expand the Latino population. A couple of years ago, in an interview with NBC's Katy Couric, the female editor of an Hispanic magazine told Katy, "I can't wait for the day my daughter asks me, 'Mommy what was it like when Hispanics were a minority?'" The message is clear; the intent is also clear; to control the USA politically. And it IS happening.
When I grew up, there were many actors and singers I admired: Edie Gormez, Rita Moreno, Ricardo Montelban, Ceasar Romero, Vikki Carr, Anthony Quinn, and others. Elizabeth Pena was one of my favorites, another was Rachel Ticotin. It did not dawn upon me that they were Mexican (or in some cases Puerto Rican.) They were actors and singers, exactly that. Their politics were not important to me. Nor were politics that important to them. They were Americans, in my eyes and in theirs.
But in the past two decades, they have dropped half of their citizenship. They are now "Half Americans." The other half is Mexican. Now I can no longer call them Americans. They don't *want* to be Americans. They want to be Mexicans, or if that can't happen, Mexican-Americans.
They also dropped more than half my admiration for their talents. They ceased joining, and became divisive. In the 1980s I wrote an article in which I stated people coming here must, "Take part IN America, not part OF it." I later created a bumper sticker of the same slogan.
Today each new arrival wants a portion of the pie for himself and his heritage. He does not respect the place to which he comes; he wants to convert it to the place from which he came. We had generations of Europeans, and even Africans, who came here to *join* America. Those days are gone. Now those from the Latino world come here to divide.
And they are succeeding. I find myself asking what our military is for. Isn't it to protect our nation? If so, then why isn't it posted along our southern borders, to stop the invasion? For that is what it is, an invasion. The intent is clear. The methods are clear. And our government doesn't care, and will not take action. We are turning the country over to an invasive force, and, though we can't say it is without a shot being fired, as many are, in gang warfare and crime, there is no visible military attack.
It is, though, just as effective.
Ed
w9dms
05-10-2005, 04:44 AM
Reading these posts and some of the other threads concerning the war in Iraq and such made me think of an email I received from a friend a while back. I will paste it below but please remember that it is not intended to aggravate or offend any particular person or group. I just thought it was appropriate for this thread and might make a few people think about what it says. Please enjoy the following plan as proposed by Robin Williams.
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. #What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message. #Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!) I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. #So, here's one plan:
# #1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' #We will never "interfere" again.
# #2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. #They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.
# #3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. #We'll give them a free trip home. #After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. #France would welcome them.
# #4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. #No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. #Asylum would never be available to anyone. #We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
# #5. No "students" over age 21. #The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.
# #6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. #This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
# #7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. #They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
# #8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." #They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. #The people who need it most get very little, #if anything.
# #9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. #We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. #Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
# #10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. #The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...
Now, ain't that a winner of a plan. "The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me'"
KC0NBW
05-10-2005, 04:56 AM
Quote[/b] (KC9HMB @ May 09 2005,21:44)]Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. #What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message. #Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!) I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. #So, here's one plan:
# #1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' #We will never "interfere" again.
# #2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. #They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.
# #3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. #We'll give them a free trip home. #After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. #France would welcome them.
# #4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. #No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. #Asylum would never be available to anyone. #We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
# #5. No "students" over age 21. #The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.
# #6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. #This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
# #7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. #They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
# #8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." #They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. #The people who need it most get very little, #if anything.
# #9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. #We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. #Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
# #10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. #The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...
Now, ain't that a winner of a plan. "The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me'"
right on, mork !
get 'er done ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Quote[/b] (KC9HMB @ May 09 2005,20:44)]Reading these posts and some of the other threads concerning the war in Iraq and such made me think of an email I received from a friend a while back. I will paste it below but please remember that it is not intended to aggravate or offend any particular person or group. I just thought it was appropriate for this thread and might make a few people think about what it says. Please enjoy the following plan as proposed by Robin Williams.
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. #What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message. #Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!) I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. #So, here's one plan:
# #1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' #We will never "interfere" again.
# #2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. #They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.
# #3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. #We'll give them a free trip home. #After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. #France would welcome them.
# #4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. #No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. #Asylum would never be available to anyone. #We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
# #5. No "students" over age 21. #The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.
# #6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. #This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
# #7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. #They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
# #8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." #They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. #The people who need it most get very little, #if anything.
# #9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. #We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. #Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
# #10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. #The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...
Now, ain't that a winner of a plan. "The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me'"
This isn't a Robin Williams (the comedian) #bit.
More BS Internet garbage.
Some of you believe every falsehood you read if it supports your agenda.
Right wing prevaricators are down right shameless...
Anyone who knows anything about Robin Williams knows he'd never support any of these stupid comments.
Get real, stand up, argue based on facts, rather than falsehoods and BS false internet swill... #
Dave WX7B
KC0NBW
05-10-2005, 05:09 AM
yes, there are a lot of people that only believe what the party tells them to believe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ May 09 2005,21:09)]yes, there are a lot of people that only believe what the party tells them to believe #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
You mean like Republicans? Seems like you've bought into their bs bigtime...
KC0NBW
05-10-2005, 05:25 AM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 09 2005,22:14)]Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ May 09 2005,21:09)]yes, there are a lot of people that only believe what the party tells them to believe #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
You mean like Republicans? Seems like you've bought into their bs bigtime...
no, i do not follow any party line, i make decisions on my own, unlike some some who come unglued when they don't hear what they want to hear. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
KA7RRA
05-10-2005, 08:40 AM
I think it is time to put up a wall along the boarder from California to Az. It may not stop them but I bet it would slow them down some.. or either that we could set up some more check points along the boarder. We neeed to do something...
If we were in a country illeagley #we would be shot. thank good we don't have a law about spelling
Dave
KA7RRA
k6pme
05-10-2005, 02:52 PM
Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ May 09 2005,13:56)]Quote[/b] (KG6QQL @ May 08 2005,17:02)]n0jaa,
Unfortunately, I believe you misunderstood me as I agree with you 100% if not more. Perhaps the next time I'm being extremely sarcastic and somewhat cynical I should indicate something to that effect.
Just about anyone that know's me can tell you that I'm NOT leftist PC by any means. If anything I'm hardcore rightist redneck.
I just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding. Take it in the spirit of grace and tact, that is what this post is meant to be.
My apologies if you thought that I thought that. #I did not infer that you were of the PC crowd, I only intended to comment on the general PC comment. #
My intent is always to comment on the issue, not on the individual. #There are issues that I do feel strongly about, that I do go a little overboard at times, and this is one of them.
I've never been known to be the most diplomatic person on the planet! #I share Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott's viewpoint on it: #"The only diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank!" # # # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Paul, N0JAA.
Hmm....Looks like the egg is on MY face this morning! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
w0aew
05-10-2005, 03:47 PM
Quote[/b] (KA7RRA @ May 10 2005,01:40)]I think it is time to put up a wall along the boarder from California to Az.
And who would you hire to do this kind of labor?
Hire the Mexicans, but make them work from THEIR side of the wall.
KE7DFP
05-10-2005, 05:56 PM
Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ May 10 2005,08:47)]Quote[/b] (KA7RRA @ May 10 2005,01:40)]I think it is time to put up a wall along the boarder from California to Az.
And who would you hire to do this kind of labor? . We have a consideral supply of University faculty members excessive to our needs. Perhaps a chain gang of those teaching "made up" subjects" would be sufficient to pick the grapes of the Sonoma Wine country.
Part of the problem is there is no punishment for them invading our soil. If they are caught here crossing the border, they are sentenced to 6 mos. for violating our federal laws. I have no problemn with the idea of prisoners working to pay costs and fines. They will be expected to work in chain gangs throughout Sonoma Valley, or where ever farmers and businessmen need subsidies of cheap labor. When they finish their sentence, they will be deported far from the border. The word will quickily spread in Mexico that America is not a place you can go to scam for freebies anymore. Price of food and wines drop , and we begin charging Mexico barrels of oil for any aid they claim they need, and they economy gets a big boost. It's a self sustaining win-win. If you don't like it , don't come, it's your choice. What would my treatment be I wonder, if I broke into Mexico, was caught working or committing crimes, and sentenced to their jail system?
W2ILP
05-10-2005, 07:38 PM
Hmmm...
I wonder if it is true that the (then recent) immagrants were met at the ferry from Ellis Island by horse drawn coaches that took them to vote in New York elections. This was before they were legal citizens, leagally eligible to vote and before some could speak or read English. They were alleged to have been told to vote for the "Tammany" party's symbol. Today I assure all that that would be impossible. I dunno if the present illegal immigrants will be allowed to vote right away ...but they may have friends and relatives here that they may influence.
Why else would a party that used to be against minorities and newbees be protecting the rights of people who enter illegally?
I'm not against the kind of language written on the pedistal of the Statue of Librerty which stands in New York harbor
It says: ...give me...the refuse of your teeming cities...
BUT some say we have already gotten all the refuse we can handle...Some of that early refuse have become our mayors and governors.
Enuf sed.
w2ilp (Immigration Literacy Polling?) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
w0aew
05-10-2005, 08:10 PM
The Dutch have a similar problem with illegal immigration. However, recent crackdowns on the hiring of illegal immigrants has caused them to resort to crime rather than return to their countries of origin.
Quote[/b] ]Life has become increasingly tough for those without the right papers in the Netherlands. Economic recession and strict government policies aimed at stamping out clandestine work are hitting the illegal population hard. Critics warn the government crackdown is set to fail and may even backfire as it drives illegal immigrants into the arms of criminals.
...
This situation has changed radically. New regulations now make it almost impossible to employ illegal immigrants. Companies are regularly checked and the fines are hefty. The strict measures have just about closed off the official labour market to illegals.
...
"It takes the grace of God to survive now." Festus from Nigeria, who came to the Netherlands about seven years ago, is one of the estimated 100,000 to 150,000 illegal immigrants who try to carve out a living in the Netherlands. They make up about seven percent of the total immigrant community, an average percentage when compared to other countries.
Over the years, Festus has seen a blossoming illegal labour market change to one that's virtually non-existent. "No jobs, so what do you do? You are forced to do what you don't want to do."
...
Both critics are calling for a system of flexible temporary working permits, to be renewed on the basis of 'good behaviour' and work results. The final aim should be a permanent legal residence permit for those who want to stay on, says Tom Marfo.
More here (http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/features/dutchhorizons/weeklyfeature/050301doc).
Certainly other countries are facing similar problems with illegal waves of migration. After all, some archaelogists now believe that the Anglo-Saxon "invasion" of Britain in the fourth and fifth centuries, as the Roman occupiers receded, probably resembled that of the Mexican invasion of the American southwest more than an armed incursion from the continent. The Britons were gradually overwhelmed culturally, then the celts intermarried with the invading germanic tribes gradually forming a different culture.
And so it goes, and so it goes.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
K7JBQ
05-10-2005, 08:20 PM
Actually, the Romans left on their own.
They had a couple of problems at home.
73,
Bill
KE7DFP
05-10-2005, 10:04 PM
It the Celts intermarried with the "German Tribes", then they were not intermarrying. They were just marrying other Celts, not much of a theory, I'll stick with the historians.
KG6OPR
05-10-2005, 10:40 PM
"I want a Mexican Radio." The Wall Of Voodoo. Rock of the '80s stuff ya know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
n0jaa
05-10-2005, 11:06 PM
Quote[/b] (WA5OES @ May 10 2005,04:47)]Quote[/b] (KA7RRA @ May 10 2005,01:40)]I think it is time to put up a wall along the boarder from California to Az.
And who would you hire to do this kind of labor?
Hire all the brick layers and masons in this country, who are out of a job because of the stinkin' illegal job stealers!
Paul, N0JAA.
n0jaa
05-10-2005, 11:11 PM
Quote[/b] (KG6OPR @ May 10 2005,11:40)]"I want a Mexican Radio." The Wall Of Voodoo. Rock of the '80s stuff ya know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
You actually LIKE that song? Yuck!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
N0JAA.
W2ILP
05-10-2005, 11:23 PM
I think I know why some politicians want to legalize the poor immigrants. That is so the politicians pals who own the big chicken plucking, shrimp cleaning, fish fileting, clam schucking, pig squelling industries can find workers who will be willing to work for low wages AND have part of their pay deducted for income tax and Social Security benefits. The trick is that they want the workers to pay into the social security program when they are young. If Social Security runs out of money to pay them in their old age then the US can make laws to deport them back to Mexico or where ever - with no SS benefits.
This would be a last come - No SS benefits served plan.
w2ilp (Illegals Lost Payments?)
K7JBQ
05-10-2005, 11:26 PM
ilp:
Illegals don't get SS benefits now. That's another thing they're carping about, along with drivers' licenses.
73,
Bill
W2ILP
05-10-2005, 11:44 PM
Big companies that hire illegals "off the books" have been fined for not taking out tax and FICA, paying below minimum wages, hireing people who have no SSN, having unsafe work places...but they still may try to do it. Obviously illegals won't be eligible for SS benefits if they dont even have an SSN or work record. The politicians have a problem now. Should they let big buddys continue to hire off the books or should thay make the illegals as well as their buddies contribute to the SS program. Remember that employers must kick in money as well as legal workers. IMHO this is the problem for the Government and will be solved by the lobbiests who can "influence" Congress to do the right thing, the wrong thing or the government bureaucratic thing about it. Most people who don't own big business or arent illegal don't know or care about this problem...unless it causes prices of chicken, shrimp, fish, etc. to change. The prices are getting higher and no matter what is done we may see them getting even higher...because anything that is done will eventually be paid for by consumers.
w2ilp (Illegals Lower Prices?)
K7JBQ
05-10-2005, 11:50 PM
No argument there.
And people might actually have to go back to -- gasp -- raking leaves.
73,
Bill
On the other hands people, how many of you have traced your own ancestors into this country?
My wife did some research on my ancestors and found where all but the male entered the country legally. He apparently worked on a ship and jumped ship when it got here.
Irishmen!
Maybe they will deport me!
Don't get us started on the Irish. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
WA5KRP
05-11-2005, 05:58 AM
Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 11 2005,00:40)]Weak, KRP.
You're better than that...
Dave WX7B
OK
WA5KRP
Texas
KE7DFP
05-11-2005, 06:18 AM
The Irish din't get welfare or free health care. They had to work....No THERE was some good immigrant stock! Couldn't of had the revolutionary war without em. When slavery was abolished, they filled the unused slave ships up with the Irish and built a country!!!. They sure had a bone to pick with King George . Might have been a few criminals amongst them, but criminals that knew good poetry when they heard it. Guess it didn't really matter though.....they didn't have policemen yet.
kf6rdn
05-11-2005, 12:06 PM
Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ May 10 2005,16:11)]Quote[/b] (KG6OPR @ May 10 2005,11:40)]"I want a Mexican Radio." The Wall Of Voodoo. Rock of the '80s stuff ya know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
You actually LIKE that song? #Yuck!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
N0JAA.
I do, as well as other stuff the band has done.. Good band!
W2ILP
05-12-2005, 02:00 AM
Most of my grade school teachers were Irish. They were excellent teachers whose parents were all Irish immigrants. Unfortunately my own children did not have the good luck to have such teachers and I believe that their education suffered for it. Many others who are my age say that they also had better teachers than their children have had. I recently went for a Masters in Education, planning to be a teacher myself. Unfortunately I found that the teachers who were teaching the teachers of the future were not all very good . Even some who were Irish were too Americanized to take their job seriously or to understanbd good teaching methods. I don't know why this is true but , you guys are talking about Irish and I must comment about it.
The Irish had an advantage when they came to the US in that they could speak English. This gave many the opportunity to prepare to be teachers and to be police men, politicians, etc. where the job required good speaking skills. As time went on others (non-Irish) became teachers who came from places where English was not spoken. In my opinion they not only spoiled American-English but they influenced the good English speakers to spoil English. Once you mess up a language you mess up reading skills and communication about everything else and you mess up education in general. That is my humble opinion.
I never kissed the Blarney Stone.
w2ilp (Irish Like Potatoes?)