Church expels Democrat

[w0aew]

A church expels all its Democrats. Pretty funny story. The video is here (http://home.comcast.net/~crackodawn37/wlos.wmv). (Right-click and "save attachment as")

One wonders if this church will now be considered a Republican political organization and lose its tax exempt status. But the rules of IOIYAR might apply here.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[KG4CGC]

Gee! Right in my backyard. They sound like one of the Professional Amateur Radio clubs we have around here. I would say that they are no longer a church but a political club. There is probably more to the story like infighting and bickering between members who have some issues with each other. Some people get old and wise, the rest just get old. Some are wise beyond their years but that doesn't apply here.

[w5klb]

Well, OES,

We finally agree on something. (It's about time). This "minister" should be "excommunicated" for doing this. I don't know about how the rest of you feel, but the God I worshop has NO POLITCAL affillation whatsoever.

Supporting Kerry or Bush should NOTHING whatsoever to do with ones RIGHT to worshop in the Church or Synagogue of their choice.

It's too bad that we have those extreamist people on the far right fringes making the rest of the conservatives look bad. I would not blame ANYONE for not wanting to go to that church.

Thanks for calling our attention to this and remember that the MAJORITY of conservatives DO NOT think this way.

[W5MJL]

We are missing something here. The first part of the tape is talking about abortion and homosexuality. If the church truly wants to excommunicate anyone for that reason, I think they should have the right to do so.

The second part talks about they have to support George Bush, which if true, should certainly take away their tax exemption status, and/or the pastor should be excommunicated.

[K8YS]

sounds reasonable to me!

Jesus said that you cannot serve two masters.

You either believe in the teachings of the church or you do not. By supporting policy that goes against the church, you cannot be a member in good standing.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ May 06 2005,09:52)]sounds reasonable to me!

Jesus said that you cannot serve two masters.

You either believe in the teachings of the church or you do not. By supporting policy that goes against the church, you cannot be a member in good standing.
I just got one small tiny liiiiitle question:

Where in the the KJV of the Bible does it say that we have be "political" about worshoping the Almighty? I can't seem to locate that particular scripture in my version. Hmmm... maybe I missed something. That's #the book I thought ALL Protestant religions went by, or am I wrong there also? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[K8YS]

what is so difficult to understand?

The church teaches one thing, you are a member of that church, but you do the opposite... that means to me that you do not believe what the church teaches, and you should not be a member.

Isn't that the very definition of HIPOCRITE?

Nothing political, just the very basis of your beliefs. If abortion, murder, homosexuality is wrong, but you all these activities, or go out of your way to not stop them, they you cannot believe what the church says, and you should not be a member.

I do not see what is difficult with this.

[W5MJL]

When you really get down to it, a church is almost like a private club. #Some churches require membership, some do not.

If I join any Christian church, and start telling the members I really think homosexuality is a great lifestyle, #or I verbally tell people in the church that I support abortion, I would imagine they would not want me as a member. #These are political and religious issues. #.

It could very well be that the pastor was explaining to these people why they were being excommunicated, and in the course of discussion about that reason, #politics could have easily been brought up afterwards. (after the excommunication). #The Pastor does have a right to have political associations. #Meanwhile, the people go to the press saying they were excommunicated due to political reasons.

I have no knowledge it happened this way, but I can certainly see HOW it could happen this way, and both parties would feel they were right in saying what they did.

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ May 06 2005,12:30)]Nothing political, just the very basis of your beliefs. If abortion, murder, homosexuality is wrong, but you all these activities, or go out of your way to not stop them, they you cannot believe what the church says, and you should not be a member.
Didn't Jesus spread the Gospel by teaching it to sinners? #I don't remember him excluding anybody. #Well, maybe Satan.




WA5KRP
Texas

[W5MJL]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 06 2005,14:26)]Quote[/b] (K8YS @ May 06 2005,12:30)]Nothing political, just the very basis of your beliefs. If abortion, murder, homosexuality is wrong, but you all these activities, or go out of your way to not stop them, they you cannot believe what the church says, and you should not be a member.
Didn't Jesus spread the Gospel by teaching it to sinners? #I don't remember him excluding anybody. #Well, maybe Satan.




WA5KRP
Texas
An extremely valid point!!! It looks like that would make the church hypocritical no matter which course they chose. So what would be the solution?

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ May 06 2005,12:34)]So what would be the solution?
Withdraw tax exemption status from all organizations and let 'em include or exclude whomever they want. That means churches, ham clubs, whatever.

I'm not excited about supporting such organizations indirectly with my tax dollars (by picking up any of their slack).

But maybe that's too fiscally conservative for the modern neocon to grasp. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[k0ews]

This whole thing is just plain wrong. Whatever happened to the idea that who I voted for was nobody's business? There is a word in the vocabulary for being able to say, read, speak and vote one's own thoughts and conscience. It's called FREEDOM.
This whole theocratic idea of tacking morality to a candidate's positions is engaging in a dangerous, blind faith. Excommunication is for those who have rejected Christ. George Bush, and the Republicans don't have positions that one could consider non-Christian? There is no pecking order of sin. In God's eyes, sin is sin is sin. The last time I looked, voting in an election for a Presidential candidate wasn't sin.

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ May 06 2005,09:52)]sounds reasonable to me!

Jesus said that you cannot serve two masters.

You either believe in the teachings of the church or you do not. By supporting policy that goes against the church, you cannot be a member in good standing.
You live in America. Not the country of Jesus.

[KA9VQF]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ May 06 2005,12:34)]{edited quote}

#So what would be the solution?
Got any good koolaid recipies?

[W5MJL]

Why is everyone so against religion? What is wrong with having faith?

[KW4MW]

I read the same account at WorldNetDaily
Minister ex-communicates Democrat church members (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44152).

I don't agree with his call at all.

Personally, I believe we should keep politics out of the pulpit and religion off of the stump.

I am not a Baptist but I know some good folks that are. #

Unfortunately an incident like this tends to paint them all with the same brush.

Good for the 40 others that left in protest, Rev. Chandler is going to miss them when the collection plate is passed around.

[w4rot]

Faith is good.
Hope is good.
Talking to God is good..how ever you do it,
but...BS is indeed BS.
It's a fine line.
w4rot

[w5klb]

OES tells us this:

Quote[/b] ]I'm not excited about supporting such organizations indirectly with my tax dollars (by picking up any of their slack).
OES,

I don't know where you get the idea that tax payers dollars are supporting a church ANYWHERE but, you are only "picking up their slack" by voluteering to contribute to their "cause". As matter of fact, there are churches that have their own welfare programs to keep their members off the "Goverment Cheese". There are Catholic Charities and the Mormons have some of the best church welfare systems around. There may be others.

I am with KRP. Churches should be all INCLUSIVE and not EXCLUSIVE. How a person feels privately about a particular issue is between them and their God, however they percieve Him or Her to be. You might think they are wrong but you can show them how wrong they are, not by excommunicating them, by being an EXAMPLE of your faith. Let the Almighty sort these matters out. He is the Ultimate Judge, not us mere mortals.

[W5HTW]

I think they should expel all CBers, too.

Or ban 'em to the Satan channels, below channel 11 or 13 or whatever it is.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ May 06 2005,17:30)]Why is everyone so against religion? #What is wrong with having faith?
Who said anything about being "against religion"? Is this another one of those "Christian as victims" moments? No one is advocating taking away their right to worship.

You're making the assumption that the extreme fundamentalist interpertation of the Bible is correct. Just because some fundy fire-breathing preachers scream the loudest doesn't make them correct.

Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit and sending out "voting guides" should be grounds for revocation of tax exempt status...

Dave WX7B

[KE7DFP]

How many black churches would you have to shut down if you exclude politics from the domain iof religion. Virtually every major player is a REV. I say bring it on. Scratch that churches tax exempt status, but also pull exempt status for the REV. Jesse Jackson and the REV. Al Sharpton. #It's always the same with Libs, one standard for your people, a whole different yardstick for everbody else. #No one discriminates like a #lib, but they pride themselfs in being non-discriminatory (to other Dem voters) they say the don't supoport politics of hate, but no one hates like an anti-hater. #You lost the election by a huge (historically) margin. #The rest of us decided we didn't want your insane nonsense, and you only represent but a few little blue spots on America's map. #Anywhere those like you control poltics and can actually impliment these kooky ideas, you have complete disaster. We have higher murder rates in cities that implement your "progressive" agenda than we do on the battlefield . California has the highest education budget per child in the world, but it's third from the bottom worldwide. Due to the immigration/welfare policies pushed by the "progressives ,"it only surpasses Mexico and Paraguay. This endless Moore-ish anger and bitterness does nothing but eat you away inside and is frankly, childish. #Pick up your marbles and show everyone you have some class . You can be a loser, but still be a good loser. #Get your news from other sources than just international communist blogs. Don't inanely report lines you've been fed verbatim like "we let Bin Laden slip away in Afghanistan". #You discrace our brave sons and daughters who are fighting, to give you the right to shoot your mouth off. Show a little respect for the rest of America, which is really , a pretty nice place. #Don't be such a sore loser and show a little respect for the majority of Americans. #This doesn't have to be personal, just accept our system, and the will of the American people. #Spend your time constructively instead of fuming all day about this stuff. #When it comes right down to it, no body hears you, anyway, you can't change a thing, and basically, you don't even count. #Go check out the bands or read a book. #I would suggest "Taliban" by Rashid to give you an initial understanding of our enemy and the Holy war being waged against us. #It is a very even handed account published right before 9-11, #devoid of political slant. #Please, stop #the politics of hate and discrimination against those you disagree with. #Joins the rest of America. Stand up for your country! God Bless America # # # # SEMPER FI # # #KE7DFP

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] ]How many black churches would you have to shut down if you exclude politics from the domain iof religion. Virtually every major player is a REV. I say bring it on. Scratch that churches tax exempt status, but also pull exempt status for the REV. Jesse Jackson and the REV. Al Sharpton.

Well, yeah. They shouldn't be exempt either.

Quote[/b] ]It's always the same with Libs, one standard for your people, a whole different yardstick for everbody else. #No one discriminates like a #lib, but they pride themselfs in being non-discriminatory (to other Dem voters) they say the don't supoport politics of hate, but no one hates like an anti-hater.

Gibberish. What are you talking about?

Quote[/b] ]You lost the election by a huge (historically) margin. #The rest of us decided we didn't want your insane nonsense, and you only represent but a few little blue spots on America's map.

The only people still talking about the last election are guys like you. How is the last election relevant to the topic at hand? Go peel your "W" sticker off your car. Your vote didn't do you any good in Oregon anyway...

Quote[/b] ]We have higher murder rates in cities that implement your "progressive" agenda than we do on the battlefield

Another fine example of apples and oranges logic. That sentence has no basis in fact and makes absolutely no sense.


Quote[/b] ]California has the highest education budget per child in the world, but it's third from the bottom worldwide. Due to the immigration/welfare policies pushed by the "progressives ,"it only surpasses Mexico and Paraguay.


That's so outrageous, it's almost funny. Care to quote a source on that one Randy?

Quote[/b] ]This endless Moore-ish anger and bitterness does nothing but eat you away inside and is frankly, childish. #Pick up your marbles and show everyone you have some class .

The only anger etc. seems to be eminating from you. I got over losing the election months ago. What's your excuse? Nice Moore cliche, BTW.

Quote[/b] ]Get your news from other sources than just international communist blogs. Don't inanely report lines you've been fed verbatim like "we let Bin Laden slip away in Afghanistan".

Yeah, right. Communist Blogs...uh, huh...Sorry I don't get my news from sources like NewsMax or talk radio.

Quote[/b] ]This doesn't have to be personal, just accept our system, and the will of the American people. #Spend your time constructively instead of fuming all day about this stuff.

Seems like you're the one fuming. Not sure what set off your little tirade.

Quote[/b] ]When it comes right down to it, no body hears you, anyway, you can't change a thing, and basically, you don't even count. #Go check out the bands or read a book.

Heh...Seems like YOU heard SOMETHING...As for the bands, maybe you should use your freshly minted license (3/11/05) and check out the bands yourself instead of ranting on some internet board.

Quote[/b] ]Please, stop #the politics of hate and discrimination against those you disagree with. #Joins the rest of America. #Stand up for your country! #

Standing up for your country doesn't mean accepting everything the administration (either Republican or Democrat) says verbatim. I'm sure when a Democrat is President, you'll support the Democrat no matter what, right?

You seem to be unclear on the rights of free speech and free expression.

If your post was a troll meant to incite a volley of attacks for your amusement, I'm letting you know in advance, I'm not going to play.

Have a nice day.

Dave WX7B
Liberal in California and proud of it.

[k9kxq]

My cousin is a retired minister, we talked about politics and religon in church, he is against any politics in church and I think he explained to me it was illegal to do so.

Is that church in Georgia or South Carolina, got to be someting in the water they drink... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

kxq

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (k0ews @ May 06 2005,16:27)]This whole thing is just plain wrong. #Whatever happened to the idea that who I voted for was nobody's #business? #
Very simple and to the point. I don't want some pastor dictating my politics any more than I want some politician dictating my religion. Either is a formula for disaster.



WA5KRP
Texas

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 07 2005,15:20)]Quote[/b] (k0ews @ May 06 2005,16:27)]This whole thing is just plain wrong. #Whatever happened to the idea that who I voted for was nobody's #business? #
Very simple and to the point. #I don't want some pastor dictating my politics any more than I want some politician dictating my religion. #Either is a formula for disaster.



WA5KRP
Texas
Very well said and I totally agree...

kxq

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ May 07 2005,11:12)]they say the don't supoport politics of hate, but no one hates like an anti-hater.
Oh, really (http://www.littlegeneva.com/)?

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ May 06 2005,18:30)]Why is everyone so against religion? #What is wrong with having faith?
Faith is great - JUST KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!!!

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 07 2005,07:21)]Who said anything about being "against religion"? Is this another one of those "Christian as victims" moments? No one is advocating taking away their right to worship.
It's how the Nazis came tp power.

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 07 2005,13:20)]Very simple and to the point. I don't want some pastor dictating my politics any more than I want some politician dictating my religion.
That's precisely the point of "separation of church and state."

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KE7DFP @ May 07 2005,11:12)]You lost the election by a huge (historically) margin. #The rest of us decided we didn't want your insane nonsense, and you only represent but a few little blue spots on America's map. #
Yeah, the blue spots where the majority of college educated people live. Isn’t it great we now celebrate ignorance in America?

K6BBC

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,00:17)]Yeah, the blue spots where the majority of college educated people live. #Isn’t it great we now celebrate ignorance in America?

K6BBC
BBC,


Back that comment with demographic facts........such as those provided by the Census Bureau.

SHOW ME. I'm tired of folks wading in here with their alligator mouth overloading their canary ass. Go ahead. If anybody can back up what they say, it's you. You strike me as an intelligent individual. I'm betting you can come through.



WA5KRP
Texas

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 07 2005,22:30)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,00:17)]Yeah, the blue spots where the majority of college educated people live. #Isn’t it great we now celebrate ignorance in America?

K6BBC
BBC,


Back that comment with demographic facts........such as those provided by the Census Bureau.

SHOW ME. #I'm tired of folks wading in here with their alligator mouth overloading their canary ass. #Go ahead. #If anybody can back up what they say, it's you. #You strike me as an intelligent individual. #I'm betting you can come through.



WA5KRP
Texas
Come on KRP. #The blue was centered in urban, higher income centers. #I will be so bold to draw an inference. #

Oh, and BTW, I voted for GWB - but I think I was in error now. There is a lot of bad SHI* going on around him.

K6BBC

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,00:33)]Come on KRP. #The blue was centered in urban, higher income centers. #I will be so bold to draw an inference. #

Oh, and BTW, I voted for GWB - but I think I was in error now. #There is a lot of bad SHI* going on around him.
NOPE. #I'm not buying.


I voted for W as well. #I would HATE to have his Presidency. #He inherited a looming economic depression followed by 9/11.

At least you and I did all we could reasonably do to keep Al Gore out of office. #WHEW!

Back up your original assertion.

Quote[/b] ]Quote (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,00:17)
Yeah, the blue spots where the majority of college educated people live. #Isn’t it great we now celebrate ignorance in America?

K6BBC



WA5KRP
Texas

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ May 07 2005,22:47)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,00:33)]Come on KRP. #The blue was centered in urban, higher income centers. #I will be so bold to draw an inference. #

Oh, and BTW, I voted for GWB - but I think I was in error now. #There is a lot of bad SHI* going on around him.
NOPE. #I'm not buying.


I voted for W as well. #I would HATE to have his Presidency. #He inherited a looming economic depression followed by 9/11.

At least you and I did all we could reasonably do to keep Al Gore out of office. #WHEW!

Back up your original assertion.

Quote[/b] ]Quote (k6bbc @ May 08 2005,00:17)
Yeah, the blue spots where the majority of college educated people live. #Isn’t it great we now celebrate ignorance in America?

K6BBC



WA5KRP
Texas
I love it KRP – were fight in one post and agreeing in another – only in America!

K6BBC

[KC2HJN]

This was introduced a while ago (2003)

Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to state that churches and other houses of worship shall not lose such designation because of the content, preparation, or presentation of any homily, sermon, teaching, dialectic, or other presentation made during religious services or gatherings.

So if this were to pass (not likely, I don't think) political activism by churches would not take away their tax exempt status.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.235:

[KG4CGC]

The Pastor of the church in question just resigned. Details pending.

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (KG4CGC @ May 10 2005,21:03)]The Pastor of the church in question just resigned. Details pending.
Sounds like the Deacons decided their pastor had twisted off.


Thank goodness.




WA5KRP
Texas

[K0RGR]

Boy and while this is going on, the local synod of our very mainstream church voted to continue blessing gay unions and ordaining gay ministers. This will come up for a vote at a nation conference this summer, which will probably be fairly bloody, and could split the church.

I can't tell you when the Lutherans stopped using King James, but it was way before my time.

I don't remember there being any process for 'excommunicating' a Baptist when I was one. That sounds much, much too Catholic for any self-respecting Baptist minister to even think the words, let alone do it. How could a Baptist minister excommunicate someone from a religion that emphasizes a person's direct connection to God without the need for any intermediaries?

In the long run, I'm afraid that Chrisitianity is going to tear itself to pieces. The most fervent zealots are going to look like the biggest idiots.

My God can kick your God's ...

[W5MJL]

To me, that is the biggest problem with religion today. Everyone thinks they are right, and there is no tolerance for other religions. Kinda like politics http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K7JBQ]

Quote[/b] (ka5fap @ May 11 2005,11:45)]To me, that is the biggest problem with religion today. #Everyone thinks they are right, and there is no tolerance for other religions. #Kinda like politics http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Today?

How about since Day One?

73,
Bill

[KG4CGC]

Update, well to me it is. The issue was if the church members had voted for John Kerry and therefore a vote for Kerry was a vote for abortion. That was what it came down to, abortion. The church is of course against abortion and even if one of their members thought that Kerry was the better candidate it was considered by the pastor to be a pro abortion stance. So as you can see, it came down to everything being a black or white view of the issues.

My comentary on this: In a world of grey one needs to consider all sides of an issue and not just follow what one side or another tells you is true. Follow the heard and just say moo. They'll be waiting for you at the slaughter house.

[w6ez]

Quote[/b] (K8YS @ May 06 2005,09:52)]sounds reasonable to me!

Jesus said that you cannot serve two masters.

You either believe in the teachings of the church or you do not. By supporting policy that goes against the church, you cannot be a member in good standing.
That's about it.

Right and wrong are, well, right and wrong.

One either belives or they don't belive.

If I were to become a member of a church and then follow a path that didn't follow the teachings of that church they would have every right to move me to the curb.

Churches are protected in the areas of freedom of speech just like the population. If they want to speak a political view or sway other people's views, they have the right to do so. I don't think they have the right to contribute cash or service to polital parties or agendas as a church. They can ask their members to do these things as individuals.

''of course these just my views."