Officials Urge Renewal of Patriot Act

[KB9YCO]

Read this: Officials Urge Renewal of Patriot Act (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050405/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/patriot_act_10)
Quote[/b] ] FBI Director Robert Mueller also asked lawmakers to expand the bureau's ability to obtain records without first asking a judge... He also asked Congress to expand the FBI's administrative subpoena powers, which allow the bureau to obtain records without approval or a judge or grand jury... Among the controversial provisions a section permitting secret warrants for "books, records, papers, documents and other items" from businesses, hospitals and other organizations.
Please, let us continue with our un-Constitutional, next to neo-Nazi , purely un-American legislation for a little longer, we're having so much fun using it for more than just terrorism, all the while broadening the definition of 'terrorism' as well. In the face of some sensible, thinking Americans from both sides of the political spectrum looking to curb some of the ILLEGAL, un-Constituional garbage in the in-aptly titled Patriot Act, Gonzales, Mueller, and his ilk, want to continue to disregard basic American rights in the name of 'safety' and 'security'. Sickening and disheartening to anyone that truly values their rights as an American citizen...

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security
deserve neither." Benjamin Frankin

[N2ACX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
We've been warned over the years about this and we still are just skipping along and having fun not even paying attention to the fact we are headed for a nation wide Police State where the citizens have NO rights.

Geeesh here in NJ I heard two ham ops talking on UHF, one was pulled over by a state cop who threatened to impound his vehicle for having his antenna hanging over from the side of the vehicle by a few inches, and then saw a remote head for his dual band radio mounted on his dashboard and accused him of listening to police broadcasts. He said he kept his mouth shut, since if you apparently, if you have an opinion, and state it to the cops then you have even more trouble. He got a citation only.

What kinda BS is this when these guys run around like gestapo agents harassing the citizens?

Iam really troubled by alot of this nonsense and continue writing my congress people, still nothing happens, the machine is still running over the constitution and us.

thats my 2¢ 73 Gary N2ACX

[KG4ZQZ]

- nice troll... i'll give you +1 pt. on the attempt due to linkage, historical quotation, and formatting...

- however, since this seems to be consistent behavior, you've earned -1 on your Karma points...

- trollin', trollin', trollin'... keep those trolls a rollin'!

:-)

[K6UEY]

Well for those with some thing to hide the borders are still open to Canada or even Mexico,it would not be the first time some one has crossed the border to avoid responsibility #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (KB9YCO @ April 05 2005,12:33)]Read this: Officials Urge Renewal of Patriot Act (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050405/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/patriot_act_10)
Quote[/b] ] FBI Director Robert Mueller also asked lawmakers to expand the bureau's ability to obtain records without first asking a judge... #He also asked Congress to expand the FBI's administrative subpoena powers, which allow the bureau to obtain records without approval or a judge or grand jury... #Among the controversial provisions a section permitting secret warrants for "books, records, papers, documents and other items" from businesses, hospitals and other organizations.
Please, let us continue with our un-Constitutional, next to neo-Nazi , purely un-American legislation for a little longer, we're having so much fun using it for more than just terrorism, all the while broadening the definition of 'terrorism' as well. In the face of some sensible, thinking Americans from both sides of the political spectrum looking to curb some of the ILLEGAL, un-Constituional garbage in the in-aptly titled Patriot Act, Gonzales, Mueller, and his ilk, want to continue to disregard basic American rights in the name of 'safety' and 'security'. Sickening and disheartening to anyone that truly values their rights as an American citizen...

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security
deserve neither." Benjamin Frankin #
Yip...this is the sort of stuff that almost makes me ashamed to be a Republican >(

[KG4CGC]

It's no troll unless you just don't want to talk about it.

[KB9YCO]

Quote[/b] (KG4ZQZ @ April 05 2005,14:57)]- nice troll... i'll give you +1 pt. on the attempt due to linkage, historical quotation, and formatting...

- however, since this seems to be consistent behavior, you've earned -1 on your Karma points...

- trollin', trollin', trollin'... keep those trolls a rollin'!

:-)
I find it amusing you consider it a troll post, certainly the part of it that I wrote is my opinion, but the rest of what I posted is what is going on. If you don't want to face the fact that some of these politicians are overstepping their bounds, as well as blatantly disregarding The Constitution, all in the name of imagined safety and security, then I guess you would see it as a trolling comment. I see it as the sad reality of a government out of control. Many people, from BOTH parties, are coming to the same realization. Besides, it seems on this site that more 'trolling' comes from calling someone a troll instead of just stating your opinion. Obviously you continually disagree with me, so I guess that makes it consisent, at least for you. Thanks for checking in... 20 extra points for you...

[K0RGR]

It's good that Congress has the opportunity to review many of the provisions of this law, which was adopted rapidly after the 9/11 infamy. In some places, it needs to be strengthened, and in others, safeguards probably need to be restored to keep the government out of things that really don't concern them. In any case, at least some of these provisions should be reviewed periodically to ensure that there is no abuse.

[kb2vxa]

Hi all,

Many of you don't remember or had no experience with Hoover's List. Well, you had to have been a "peacenik" back in the 60s but from what I've gathered QRZ is populated mostly with conservitive war hawks, no ofense guys.

Re Gary N2ACX:
Many folks don't know that at least in NJ and NY the "highway patrol" is where the rookies start out. The kids wet behind the ears tend to be arrogant and moreover ignorant so you can expect all sorts of idiocy. By the time they graduate to regular patrol and other duties the seasoned veterans are usually (qualifier there) the most polite officers in the state and they'll cut you all the slack they possibly can. Don't get me wrong, you DON'T want to mess with the NJSP!

[KB9YCO]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ April 06 2005,15:07)]It's good that Congress has the opportunity to review many of the provisions of this law, which was adopted rapidly after the 9/11 infamy. #In some places, it needs to be strengthened, and in others, safeguards probably need to be restored to keep the government out of things that really don't concern them. #In any case, at least some of these provisions should be reviewed periodically to ensure that there is no abuse.
On that I'm sure we can all agree. I'm not nearly so partisan as to not understand some of the good intention reasons behind the act, but much of it is troublesome when compared to our constitutional rights. Once again, good intentions in legislation gone awry, precedents get set and become difficult to purge later. The biggest problem I have with the Patriot Act is the lack of accountability in regards to 'secret' investigations, surveillance, and prosecutions and holding of people without legal counsel. Obviously there are other issues as well and thorough review can't possibly hurt.

[KB9YCO]

Pretty sad that CB gets the top slots on page one, and when someone posts about something that's actually important (regardless of whether you agree with my opinion or not) it's virtually ignored. Sad...
This doesn't worry, concern, or seem important one way or another to anyone else?

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ April 06 2005,13:33)]Many of you don't remember or had no experience with Hoover's List. Well, you had to have been a "peacenik" back in the 60s but from what I've gathered QRZ is populated mostly with conservitive war hawks, no ofense guys.
Support the President in Iraq-yes. I liked seeing Iraqis with purple fingers.

Brett YCO, has pointed out something that concerns me greatly. I do not think that it's a "troll". This has the potential to give the Feds absolute power and to trample on our Constitutional rights. This act needs to be changed. I think that it is dangerous to bypass our courts without showing "probable cause". Judges are the ones most qualified for making this call, NOT the FBI, or The Department of Homeland Security.

This Act reminds me of the days of McCarthy and "Palmer's Red Raids" when the boys on Capitol Hill classified good people of being a communist. The only difference between those days and now is that people like us could be on a list somewhere and classified as terrorist or supporting terrorist. You would think that we should of learned the lessons of history on this and if we cannot learn the lessons of history, we are doomed to repeat it.

ALL OF US need to pay attention to this and ALWAYS remember that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[KB9YCO]

Quote[/b] ]ALL OF US need to pay attention to this and ALWAYS remember that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

THANK YOU! At least someone is paying attention without a partisan agenda out there!!

[KC7UP]

In my state the current legislature has instructed the state police not to use any unconstitional acts that have been incorpuated into the patriot act.
Curt

[KG4ZQZ]

Quote[/b] (KB9YCO @ April 07 2005,12:58)]Quote[/b] ]ALL OF US need to pay attention to this and ALWAYS remember that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

THANK YOU! At least someone is paying attention without a partisan agenda out there!!
- no partisan agenda, mind you...

- but may i suggest the power of apathy? that way we won't get upset?

:-)

- even though some folks think Americans have become polarized on issues, the truth is that most of us pretty much think along the same lines on many issues...

- is the sky falling due to the Patriot Act? i don't think so... i'd also bet that if you walked down the street and asked 10 people the question "What tenets of the Patriot Act interest you the most, or most concern you?" you'd get a blank stare nine out of 10 times...

- as far as the Patriot Act being unconstitutional: Unfortunately in our system of government, the 'People' don't make those kind of decisions, do they? and guess who makes those kinds of decisions?

- so it's nice to have an opinion about the current state of affairs... that's why i love reading these threads, as they're always good for a laugh or two...

- i also get a good laugh out of the anti-Bush crowd... so little historical perspective really... if you want to talk about an evil President, how about Kennedy? or Nixon?

[KB9YCO]

Quote[/b] ]- as far as the Patriot Act being unconstitutional: Unfortunately in our system of government, the 'People' don't make those kind of decisions, do they? and guess who makes those kinds of decisions?
The problem is the government is trampling the very document that their power is derived from, 'we the people' is rapidly becoming 'us and them', not good.
Quote[/b] ]- i also get a good laugh out of the anti-Bush crowd... so little historical perspective really... if you want to talk about an evil President, how about Kennedy? or Nixon?
Comparing one to the other does not negate the misdeeds of either, bad is bad.

[KG4ZQZ]

Quote[/b] (KB9YCO @ April 07 2005,18:21)]Quote[/b] ]- as far as the Patriot Act being unconstitutional: Unfortunately in our system of government, the 'People' don't make those kind of decisions, do they? and guess who makes those kinds of decisions?
The problem is the government is trampling the very document that their power is derived from, 'we the people' is rapidly becoming 'us and them', not good.
Quote[/b] ]- i also get a good laugh out of the anti-Bush crowd... so little historical perspective really... if you want to talk about an evil President, how about Kennedy? or Nixon?
Comparing one to the other does not negate the misdeeds of either, bad is bad.
- definitely agree that 'bad is bad'!

- AFA the Patriot Act: it appears that the main problems seem to be conflicts with amendments I, IV, and VI...

- however, many folks forget Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus and the arrest of 13,000 Americans, along with subsequently ignoring a U.S. Supreme Court writ.

- some may also argue that the U.S. gave up our sovereign rights when the Congress approved the 1945 United Nations Treaty...

- the President has the power to enact law and bypass Congress: it's called Executive Order... however, i haven't see an abuse of this power in the current administration (at least one of Clinton's EOs was struck down)...

- the separation of powers is a pretty good balance and check in our government and seems to have worked well since our Nation's birth - despite a number of hiccups along with way...

- it seems to me that the moaning, whining, and gnashing of teeth today is no worse, nor more dire than those of other tortured colonial souls long before us...

- i have every confidence in our collective power and in America, but i also realize that screaming louder doesn't give my vote any more credence than that of my fellow citizen...

- but ah, ... the entertainment value ...

:-)

[kb2vxa]

Hi guys,

"I think that it is dangerous to bypass our courts without showing probable cause."

It was done in NJ long before 911 or the Patriot Act. The wiretap/surveylance law was changed so that law enforcement can eavesdrop without any probable cause or court order.

"Judges are the ones most qualified for making this call..."

Now just WHAT would you call a qualification? The judge just went by whatever "cause" was presented knowing nothing more than what he was told and weighed it against the law. The question simply was "Is it legal?" and nothing more. STILL I would rather it be in the hands of a judge considering all the curious cowboys in uniform out to screw someone on personal matters and such, it HAPPENS.

Bottom line, don't single out the Act, our rights and freedoms have been eroding steadily for a LONG time while apathy reigns supreme. Don't be surprised when the REAL men in black come a knockin', Hitler is alive and well in Washington DC and has a son in every State House.

[k4ah]

Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ April 06 2005,08:33)]Many folks don't know that at least in NJ and NY the "highway patrol" is where the rookies start out. The kids wet behind the ears tend to be arrogant and moreover ignorant so you can expect all sorts of idiocy. By the time they graduate to regular patrol and other duties the seasoned veterans are usually (qualifier there) the most polite officers in the state and they'll cut you all the slack they possibly can. Don't get me wrong, you DON'T want to mess with the NJSP!
This is the same all over. The worse ones to deal with are the guys straight out of the academy. They think they are gods gift to police work. They usually straighten up fast when they get out into the real world but some take longer than others. Most of the rookies I saw in the DPS in Texas turned out good once they learned they weren't invincible.