PACEMAKERS & Amateur Radios

[ai4ep]

How much do the heart pacemakers work with folks using AMATEUR radios ? Do they tend to interfere only on HF frequencies, or in the microwave bands...or just on a " case-by-case " basis ?

Some of you folks who have had a pacemaker and running 2 kw into an antenna, who recieve no problems...yet another dude on down the road gets zapped every time he uses his 5 watt 2 meter H T !! ??

Just tell me ( and the rest of the modern world...notice this is NOT a radio discussion ) what YOUR experiences are , or have been with heart pacemakers & amateur radio...and I guess the cb gurus who need 1kw to talk to the next county can throw in a smidgen of syllables in for good mixture !!

( now every one goes to dictionary to find meaning of " smidgen "...got them folks perterbed !! hee hee hee http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

ai4ep

[K9STH]

Any pacemaker manufactured at least for the past couple of decades are immune from problems with r.f. At least any that passed the final quality control tests.

My wife's eldest sister's husband has had a pacemaker for a number of years. He has never had any problems either when here in Richardson, Texas, where I run up to 1400 watts output on HF and up to 200 watts output on VHF and UHF. Also, he has had no problems when riding in my vehicle with 10 meters, 2 meters, and 440 MHz up to 100 watts.

Glen, K9STH

[ai4ep]

Thanks k9sth

SO I guess it is either ---

they are better made than they used to be and are LESS likely to recieve interference from microwave ovens...rf ( cb & ham ) transmitters...etc..

or

the stores you used to see the window stickers that read " caution---microwave oven in use " arent in the doorways no more for one reason or another.

One of my relatives is recieving a pacemaker in the next week or so, and I was just wondering what worries ( if any ) there are to the current ways they make them compared to the past...no, the individual is NOT an amateur op or a cb op, but I was and still am wondering ...so I guess we will just have to go thru the old " key up & see " syndrone.

I figgered on getting a lot of responces to this question, since there are so many amateurs who DO have pacemakers and how they were dealing with the rf and so on...let us see who else has something to say.

ai4ep

[KC0NBW]

those signs were put up so no one could claim they were not warned about the equipment being there !

c.t.o.a. ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

(covering their own a...s !)

[ka5s]

For a look at present standards for medical device immunity testing, check out
http://www.devicelink.com/mem/archive/04/10/009.html

Implanted pacemakers revert to a fixed-rate pacing mode when excessive noise is detected.
http://userpages.aug.com/ddodd/CCS/SCS/emi.html

Most implanted pacemaker RF problems I've found on the Web seem to have been associated with security devices. See
http://www.devicelink.com/mddi/archive/00/01/016.html

Cortland
KA5S

[K8ERV]

I used to design microwave ovens. There was some early concern about the (small) door leakage affecting pacemakers. Never a proven problem that I knew of, and I WOULD know about such.

Then the pacemaker companies started shielding their units. During a visit to Medtronics I saw a pacemaker running properly inside an operating (Litton) oven. Impressive.

Those signs in stores really bug me. They just don't know what they are talking about.

PS: There are at least two types of pacemakers/situations. In one, the heart is run by the pacemaker. If it stops, so does your heart. A bummer situation.

The other situation is where the heart runs by itself, but maybe erratically and is only aided by the pacemaker. If the pacemaker fails, it is not necessarily an immediate problem.

Or so I read in the Times.

TOM K8ERV #Montrose Colo

[K7FE]

Cortland,
The link that your posted said that pacemakers are bothered by (EAS) Electronic Article Surveilance devices contained in large tubes installed near the exit in stores to prevent theft.



Quote[/b] ]ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELD MEASUREMENTS

Because of the paucity of information on the electromagnetic fields emitted by EAS systems, CDRH has measured these fields around a number of sample EAS systems (Figure 1 illustrates one of these measurements).14 A summary of the results were presented at the TEPRSSC meeting. The CDRH measurements did not encompass all of the types of EAS systems, but did include the following:


An extra-low-frequency (ELF) magnetic continuous wave (CW) system operating at 219 Hz.

A voice-frequency magnetic CW system operating at 535.7 Hz.

Three low-frequency pulsed magnetic systems operating at 58 KHz.

Three frequency-modulated (FM) swept RF systems operating between 1.8 and 2.1 MHz or 7.2 and 9 MHz.


Note: #
They are operating EAS in ham bands, so if your ham station is near a shopping center, you could hear a sweeping sound radio interference caused by the store security system. #I am going to drive my HF mobil station near some major retailers and see what I can hear.

73,
Terry, K7FE

[K8ERV]

Terry, been there, done that. What you will hear is "Welcome to Wal-Mart, come on in and BUY!". Neat.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[ai4ep]

...so apparently so far ( based on info provided above ) there are only random situations of interference, and then, only for within a close proximity to the transmitter...so...by moving away from it ( the interference ) the less chance of problems.

Sounds like old-fashioned common sense to me.

Still need more info....preferably from an amateur who actually HAS a pacemaker and what kinds of problems he/she has had in reference to what frequencies & power levels he/she had to use/avoid to keep from " zapping " their selves....any one out there that actually HAS A pacemaker and can tell about YOUR personal experiences ??

ai4ep

[WA2ZDY]

Sounds to me as if Glen answered the question in the second post of this thread. He's first off a serious expert on matters of electronics and RF, and secondly, he describes the experience of his very own brother-in-law being around the K9STH shack while transmssions were in progress.

So to say you need more opinions is a bit much, and to say you'll have to ask someone with pacemaker . . . well, both of them have been covered already.

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (K7FE @ Mar. 31 2005,05:18)]The link that your posted said that pacemakers are bothered by (EAS) Electronic Article Surveilance devices contained in large tubes installed near the exit in stores to prevent theft.



Quote[/b] ]ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELD MEASUREMENTS

...An extra-low-frequency (ELF) magnetic continuous wave (CW) system operating at 219 Hz.

A voice-frequency magnetic CW system operating at 535.7 Hz.

Three low-frequency pulsed magnetic systems operating at 58 KHz.

Three frequency-modulated (FM) swept RF systems operating between 1.8 and 2.1 MHz or 7.2 and 9 MHz.


Note: #
They are operating EAS in ham bands, so if your ham station is near a shopping center, you could hear a sweeping sound radio interference caused by the store security system. #I am going to drive my HF mobil station near some major retailers and see what I can hear.
Hi, Terry,

There are a quite a few different EAS systems. These at least have the sensitivity advantage of detecting a resonating object. Metal detectors are another matter. I did find problems reported on the Web involving pacemakers or other implanted medical devices and low frequency airport systems, and handheld wands. Close in, the magnetic field is rather high.

HF... I served on a jury a few years ago and noticed my 40 meter mobile would set off the (Part 15) courthouse metal detector. #If you have an obnoxious fellow juror, this might offer "interesting" possibilities. Heh!

Cortland
KA5S

[K7FE]

Yes sir!

[kb2vxa]

Hi guys,

"...the stores you used to see the window stickers that read " caution---microwave oven in use " arent in the doorways no more for one reason or another."

The reason is simple, if the door seal on a mickeywave leaks that badly it would cause burns if fingers happen to be resting nearby and a strange warmish feeling all over like a drop dead gorgeous chick just slithered by.

"Those signs in stores really bug me. They just don't know what they are talking about."

My point entirely.

'Scuse me, someone's calling on 146.520.... "Yeah, KB2VXA answering, you're louaaarrrggghhhhhhhhhhh"...sssssssssssssssssssss

[W3MIV]

I keep my HT close during those long, cold winter nights.

It warms the plate in my head when I forget to wear my baseball hat (backwards, of course, since I am 62 and want to look like a kid on Duco Cement).

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ai4ep]

I just tried my rigs with the new " pacemaker " in the family and there was no hint of interference on any band...from 160 meters ---up to 446.000 Mhz.

Thanks for your help .

Of course we COULD have had some one around 60 years old climb my 42 foot tower in the dark, to be nearer to the antennas ( g5rv and a 2m / 440 vertical ) ...but... it did not happen.

Problably wont.