A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources [Archive]

K5SEP

03-30-2005, 09:50 PM

A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources
How The Amateur Radio Community Can Save Our Service Resources
By Bob Scupp WB5YYX

It seems in our instant gratification and communications society that we amateur radio operators might be better going back to some of our old ways. For example, due to several factors including rising expenses and lack of attendance many hamfests around the nation are cutting back from two days to one. Some also feel that a way to compensate for these expenses is to start charging admission prices or increasing same and to start charging or increase prices on space for sellers and local vendors. Others have all but discontinued mailing of hamfest flyers to the amateur community and local vendors. I have observed many of these practices and the net result is that if these prices go too high with no personalized mailing of flyers to last event's attendees and local vendors inviting them back for the current year it eventually leads to a spiraling downward trend that is the event's "Kiss Of Death".

Has there been any thought to pooling resources where perhaps not one club but two or more share the responsibility of planning and sponsoring a hamfest along with the expenses? Vendors plan more than six months in advance to attend a predetermined amateur radio hamfest circuit. They many times are not at liberty to make last minute changes for financial reasons. While the hamfest sponsors cannot guarantee a good P and L statement for the local vendors that is the one of the main draws for amateur radio attendance. Amateurs insist on hands on demonstration of amateur radio equipment and accessories. It appears to me in the recent several years that vendors are cutting back their hamfest circuit plans some perhaps eliminating it totally. What in the Amateur Radio community can we do to reverse the effects of this trend?

First, let us resolve ourselves to do what Dale Carnegie Courses and the Holy Scriptures have been saying for a long time LEARN HOW TO THANK THE EVENT ATTENDEES AND VENDORS WITH SINCERE AND HONEST APPRECIATION. We can do this several ways by allowing two or more clubs and their respective volunteers to share expenses and responsibility in sponsoring a hamfest, swapfest and tailgate event. In this way there are enough volunteers and financial resources to make it happen.

Please consider that an admission fee while it may assist with covering expenses could easily deter attendees and local vendors if it used as a device to make them pay for what the sponsors should be covering as an investment instead of treating it negatively as a liability. Any table spaces or parking spaces used for sellers and local vendors should be priced in a fair and reasonable manor so as to encourage participation for the next scheduled event. Again, it should be treated as an investment not negatively in the eyes of the attendees and local vendors as a liability. Without either element here it is a good event has been unnecessarily pre-determined or tainted as you pay for it because we do not want to! Both are the investment that makes any success event happen! It must be treated as such. One might say that they are the investors or stockholders that have the final word. Please pay attention to your stockholders and the signs they are giving you. Ask them for feedback for improvements especially in writing and e-mail and they will feel recognized that they are important and necessary for the event's success. This is the same teamwork theme needed by amateurs to sponsor it who are the volunteers and make it happen!

How about mailing by bulk mail, usually the least expensive, flyers to all of the last event's attendee's and especially the local vendors who attended. One way to reduce these expenses is to send hamfest, tailgate, swapfest flyers in e-mail as attachments. Therefore encouraging all who attend including local vendors on a sign-in attendance roster to include their e-mail addresses is mandatory these days! Use whatever least expensive bulk mailing you can thorough e-mail, other club newsletters, business and community bulletin boards and newsletters, etc. to your advantage! There is every advantage in this time of instant communications in telephoning the local vendors who attended the last event and even some new ones to come on down! These days a personal touch instead of an automated anatomical artificial invitation will go much further because unfortunately it has become so rare! Yes you are important!

Remember the SCI-FI 1950's cult classic comedy film "Mars Attacks" when actor Jack Nicholson as President says to the Martians "Can't we all just get along?" While we have many specialized interests in the amateur radio service "Can't We All Just Get Along?" pool our amateur radio resources and save them? How about your comments please?

73
Bob WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K3UD

03-30-2005, 10:06 PM

Bob,

My wife is an avid dog show and trial person and regional kennel clubs have been doing much of what you suggest over the past 15 years or so.

With two or three kennel clubs joining together a show, trial, or match can be staged that will run from Thursday through Sunday. Costs go way down, much more manpower is available and revenue and attendence soars.

The typical hamfest I can get to usually opens at 8 in the morning on a Saturday and is pretty much over by lunchtime.

73
George
K3UD

K5SEP

03-30-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Mar. 30 2005,22:06)]Bob,

My wife is an avid dog show and trial person and regional kennel clubs have been doing much of what you suggest over the past 15 years or so.

With two or three kennel clubs joining together a show, trial, or match can be staged that will run from Thursday through Sunday. Costs go way down, much more manpower is available and revenue and attendence soars.

The typical hamfest I can get to usually opens at 8 in the morning on a Saturday and is pretty much over by lunchtime.

73
George
K3UD
The typical hamfest I can get to usually opens at 8 in the morning on a Saturday and is pretty much over by lunchtime.

73
George

George-

I agree with you in certain situations. Some hamfests due to the expense of having it two days are cutting back to one day. This is for a wide variety of reasons but not limited to: 1) traveling expenses increasing for attendees and vendors, 2) much higher expenses to generate many hamfest menu items and 3) lower attendance. Thank you for posting to this forum George!

Best 73's,

Bob Scupp WB5YYX

KG4RUL

03-30-2005, 11:29 PM

My impression is that most of the venues are becoming exorbitantly expenseive. This, along with rising costs for insurance, is slowly draining the financial incentive from these events.

Also, some clubs rely on their hamfest for a significant amount of their operating funds. They may be a little reluctant to split the take with another group.

Dennis http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K5SEP

03-30-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote[/b] (KG4RUL @ Mar. 30 2005,23:29)]My impression is that most of the venues are becoming exorbitantly expenseive. #This, along with rising costs for insurance, is slowly draining the financial incentive from these events.

Also, some clubs rely on their hamfest for a significant amount of their operating funds. #They may be a little reluctant to split the take with another group.

Dennis http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Dennis-

I certainly do agree with you especially when we are talking about smaller clubs with limited financial resources. Thank you for you comments!

Bob Scupp WB5YYX

W3MIV

03-31-2005, 12:52 AM

I believe the biggest problems facing hamfests are both demographic and economic, and I believe the are leading to an evolutionary cul-de-sac of sorts.

This weekend at Timonium, the crowd will likely be split into two very different groups: the predominant number of hams will look more like an AARP convention than we would like to admit. The other group will be much younger and will likely be far more interested in the computer stuff than in the ham gear.

On the economic side of the ledger is the unfortunate reality of the costs of everything skyrocketing. The sponsors have to pay high rates for the facility and the insurance and all the other fees, and they must hope for a large crowd (paying ever higher gate tickets, and in some cases, parking as well) to sample the wares of a shrinking number of vendors.

It all conspires to lower the attendance, which fuels the cycle of having to charge more for table space, etc, and causes the vendors to do ever tighter calculations about the size of the return for their time and travel and costs, thus leading to fewer vendors, leading to fewer attendess, leading to fewer hamfests.

It is, essentially, the same thing that happened to the retail ham radio outlets forty years ago.

It will probably come down to a bunch of tiny, rural fests and a few big ones hanging on and slowly twisting in the wind. And Dayton. For a while.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

KF0RT

03-31-2005, 01:04 AM

Bob,

First of all, my brain left skid marks on the pavement when you said:

Quote[/b] ]First, let us resolve ourselves to do what Dale Carnegie Courses and the Holy Scriptures have been saying

That was where I stopped reading your post, so I'll have to guess at the rest.

Mostly, I just wanted to say that I've been to two hamfests (swapfests) recently (both in the Rocky Mountain region). The first was the RMVHFS gathering in Longmont and more recently, the ARA swapfest in Adams County.

I've never been to a "hamfest" such as Dayton, but it seems like the yearly swapfests that are put on by the local clubs are doing rather well. Being an "OF" who is just getting back into things, I well recall the 'fests back in the 70's. Today's are better attended from what little I can tell. There was a long line to get into the ARA fest a few weeks ago, and it cost $5 to get in.

Never have seen one that lasted two days. Outside of Dayton or a few ARRL national conventions, I don't think I've even heard of one lasting that long.

73, Rob

K5SEP

03-31-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Mar. 31 2005,00:52)]On the economic side of the ledger is the unfortunate reality of the costs of everything skyrocketing. The sponsors have to pay high rates for the facility and the insurance and all the other fees, and they must hope for a large crowd (paying ever higher gate tickets, and in some cases, parking as well) to sample the wares of a shrinking number of vendors.

It all conspires to lower the attendance, which fuels the cycle of having to charge more for table space, etc, and causes the vendors to do ever tighter calculations about the size of the return for their time and travel and costs, thus leading to fewer vendors, leading to fewer attendess, leading to fewer hamfests.

It is, essentially, the same thing that happened to the retail ham radio outlets forty years ago.

It will probably come down to a bunch of tiny, rural fests and a few big ones hanging on and slowly twisting in the wind. And Dayton. For a while.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
W3MIV-

I have to agree with you whole heartedly! Unfortunately due to upward spiraling expenses, it has led to both attendees and vendors narrowly picking and choosing which hamfests to go to. Not like the hamfests I volunteered to work for in my Amateur Radio early years. I still volunteer today.

Than you very much for your post!

Bob Scupp WB5YYX

K5SEP

03-31-2005, 03:34 PM

I want to personally thank the administrators of QRZ.COM for the ability to express our thoughts on this system. Your hard work does not go unnoticed or unappreciated! Thank you all!

Bob Scupp WB5YYX
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ai4ep

03-31-2005, 03:40 PM

Personally I have found better bargains at smaller " tailgate " functions than at large organized hamfests. The folks were less likely to ask too high prices, plus ..at the larger hamfests, a lot of the used sellers were unwilling to verbally testify whether the equipment actually even lit up when hooked up to power or not.

Soory to burst your bubble, but if a seller is unwilling to let you take an item to see if it lights up on an ac outlet or a dc power supply, then that is a GOOD reason to stay away from the entire table. But at least it IS better than buying thru " internet hook ups " where you are more or less buying something while blindfolded.

K4KWH

03-31-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Mar. 30 2005,15:06)]Bob,

My wife is an avid dog show and trial person and regional kennel clubs have been doing much of what you suggest over the past 15 years or so.

With two or three kennel clubs joining together a show, trial, or match can be staged that will run from Thursday through Sunday. Costs go way down, much more manpower is available and revenue and attendence soars.

The typical hamfest I can get to usually opens at 8 in the morning on a Saturday and is pretty much over by lunchtime.

73
George
K3UD
Then plan to take the week prior to Labor Day off and come to the Shelby Amateur Radio club 'fest on Labor Day weekend! It is a two day #'fest with plenty of tailgating space, camping facilities, and a relaxed atmosphere that makes it much like a vacation. #Come down as early as Monday prior and set up a campsite, or camper and treat the 'fest as a real vacation! #It is one of the BEST, IMHO, hamfests around. #You will find that the "hamfesting" will actually begin about Wednesday prior with "wheelin' and dealin' and tradin' going on with NO additional charges right thru Sunday! I've been going to this hamfest since I was a teenager in 1966! #There are plenty of nice motels, food and nearby attractions such as Kings Mountain Battleground where, in 1780, a pivotal Revolutionary War battle was fought. It is a beautiful trail where one can almost FEEL the presence of those that fell there. #Further south is Cowpens National Battlefield where another battle was fought just prior to Kings Mtn. Walking trails, hiking, scenery galore. #Blue Ridge Mountains less than an hour away with breathtaking mountain scenery such as
Chimney Rock (where the 1990 movie "Last of the Mohicans" was filmed), Biltmore Estate, the largest castle and still privately owned home in America, is also about an hour away. Visit Brevard, NC, a quaint and scenic little town with mountain-built furniture, antiques, and an utterly fantastic hobby shop called "O.P. Taylor's".
And more! Oh, don't miss a soda at the old Varner's Drug store and Ice Cream Shoppe!

So, if the expense is not horrible this year (who knows?) and you plan to get away this fall for a nice vacation, then I invite you to come to the Shelby Hamfest, labeled
"the granddaddy of them all". It *may* not be the biggest (but you'll need good legs or a golf cart to get around it), but it will reveal why it got that name when you attend. It is one of the best vacations experiences you can have if you plan it right and can see the sights that Western North Carolina has to offer.

73

Note: I am not a member of the Shelby club, but I know these guys and I live in another nearby city. I just love this particular hamfest for the reasons mentioned

K5SEP

03-31-2005, 11:53 PM

K4KWH

04-01-2005, 02:14 AM

Bob,

That also works both ways! I once reworked a Swan 700 CX complete with new, matched 8950s and it was in perfect condition. I talked on it the night before taking it to a July 4 hamfest nearby. #Guy bought it, and didn't know (****censored- from shinola)! Stupid idiot took it to an outlet, plugged it in with_OUT an antenna and put it in the tune position for Lord-knows how long. #Brought it back wanting his money back. Now I knew durned and blasted well the radio was fine. #Heck, you should SMELL the radio and it was still warm! After arguing a bit, I returned his money, but I told him to never even THINK of trying to buy anything from me again! Stupid, idiot so'n'so http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif People like that (transistor, plug 'n play appliance operators should never be allowed NEAR a tube transmitter.

Yeah, it still makes me mad to think about it after 8 years!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

K5SEP

04-01-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ April 01 2005,02:14)]Bob,

That also works both ways! I once reworked a Swan 700 CX complete with new, matched 8950s and it was in perfect condition. I talked on it the night before taking it to a July 4 hamfest nearby. #Guy bought it, and didn't know (****censored- from shinola)! Stupid idiot took it to an outlet, plugged it in with_OUT an antenna and put it in the tune position for Lord-knows how long. #Brought it back wanting his money back. Now I knew durned and blasted well the radio was fine. #Heck, you should SMELL the radio and it was still warm! After arguing a bit, I returned his money, but I told him to never even THINK of trying to buy anything from me again! Stupid, idiot so'n'so http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif People like that (transistor, plug 'n play appliance operators should never be allowed NEAR a tube transmitter.

Yeah, it still makes me mad to think about it after 8 years!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
K4KWH -

I certainly agree with you on that one! I too would have been very upset if a buyer did that to me. Especially a Swan 700CX is a very classic piece of amateur radio gear.
To me it would be total sacrilege to have that occur. There is one saving factor though, better to have it happen upfront so they do not come back. By the way was the Swan 700CX a low production item compared to the 500CX? Just curious.Yes unfortunately it does work both ways and I am sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing the experience so it can assist others. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

n8yx

04-04-2005, 10:55 AM

Entrance fees aren't a concern here. What really torques me is the amount of non-radio-related stuff that shows up at the typical hamfest.

If I pay an entrance fee to a hamfest, I expect the "signal-to-noise ratio" (radio vs. non-radio items) to be fairly high. In other words, leave your Beanie Babies, kid's toys, plumbing supplies, fruits, vegetables and motorcycle parts at home.

There are flea markets held every weekend at which one may peddle their non-ham-radio wares. Utilize them; thankyouverymuch.

Of course, part of the blame lies with the hamfest organizers. It's up to them to regulate what gets brought in and what doesn't. What seemingly matters more to them than the quality of the 'fest (IMHO, of course) is the vendor setup fees...gotta have that club dollar. In the process of doing business as such, you're turning a LOT of us away. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Overall, 'fest quality is probably a big reason why eBay and online classifieds such as the one hosted by this site have taken off so well. One can usually find exactly what they're after...and NOT have to wade through mountains of 20-year-old computer software packages and books in order to get to it.

K5SEP

04-04-2005, 12:16 PM

n8yx -

I agree that there are more and more non-amateur items showing up at hamfests every year. It is not just limited to the larger ones outside of Dayton and some others though. I have personally seen an increase in more non-amateur radio items at the medium and small hamfests as well. I really do not know if clubs and hamfest organizers can limit or prohibit non-amateur radio items. But I certainly would like to see more comments about this from others. It is getting to be a big issue as you mentioned. For example, is it possible the reason more non-amateur items are showing up because hamfest organizers need to cover costs and make a profit? There already has been many posts similar to yours. That is why I would like to see more comments on this specific question. Very good thoughts! Thanks!

Bob Scupp WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

wu3u

04-04-2005, 04:02 PM

I have come to the conclusion that Hamfests (which really are little more the radio flea markets) are rather outdated in the age of the Internet.

By the time one drives to one, pays the entrance fee, #wades through all the junk, negotiates a price....pays for lunch....and all of it ...well it simply is easier and faster and sometimes cheaper and less aggravating to shop the Net for what you want.

Now if Hamfests could be something more than just a flea market - lectures, speakers, presentations, and such, then maybe there would be a reason to go.

But as they are now, hamfests are more aggravation than they are worth - at least in terms of buying equipment when we can do so right here on the Net.

TP

K5SEP

04-04-2005, 09:16 PM

This was posted to EHAM.NET:

RE: A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources #Reply #
by WB5YYX on April 4, 2005 #Mail this to a friend! #
A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources Reply
by KB3MCU on April 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I just attened a hamfest / yard sale this past weekend in my area. There was more useless garbage, that had absolutely nothing to do with amateur radio or electronics. This is very discouraging. I walked around for hours and saw maybe 3 HF rigs, and no vfh-ufh anything. If I wanted to buy tshirts and gloves, I would have gone to wal-mart around the corner from my house, not drive an hour and a half to the hamfest.

We need to find a way to keep the junk dealers out of the hamfests.

KB3MCU-

I can certainly understand your frustration with going to a hamfest like the one you described in your post. I myself have been volunteering my services to assist with hamfests, tailgates, swapfests. I get great satisfaction from participating in bringing it to fruition. Perhaps you might also volunteer your time and creative efforts to assisting them? They may need and welcome your input.

Bob Scupp WB5YYX

KG4RUL

04-04-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Mar. 31 2005,04:40)]Soory to burst your bubble, but if a seller is unwilling to let you take an item to see if it lights up on an ac outlet or a dc power supply, then that is a GOOD reason to stay away from the entire table. # But at least it IS better than buying thru #" internet hook ups " where you are more or less buying something while blindfolded.
I guess that I have been going to the good hamfests. #SOme even have a test bench set up with antennas, power supplies and some test gear.

Dennis #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K5SEP

04-04-2005, 09:23 PM

Again from EHAM.NET:

RE: A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources #Reply #
by WB5YYX on April 4, 2005 #Mail this to a friend! #
A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources Reply
by N4VOX on April 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The Orlando HamCation was held in February. Here is part of the commnets about the crowd,"

Another One For the Books
A huge “thank you” goes to each and every volunteer for the 2005 Orlando HamCationsm and Computer Show. Without you this hamfest would never have happened. This year’s event took place on February 11-13, 2005, at the Central Florida Fairgrounds and boasted a larger crowd than even last year, which was a record-breaker. The parking lots were full by 11:30 am on Saturday. If one must have a problem, this isn’t the worst one to have. Steps have already been taken to alleviate this problem for next year with the cooperation of the Fairgrounds and the City of Orlando. Our advance ticket orders broke all records and we estimate the attendance at approximately 7,000 plus or minus. This doesn’t include forum speakers or vendors who like to shop as well"

Good hamfests can survive. But it takes the work of all in the community. They are very expensive, expenses over $50,000.00. Big gamble with the weather. And there will always be problems. The Orlando hamfests, shares profits with other groups that participate. So get out and attend the hamfests.

Gill, N4VOX

Gill-

RIGHT ON BROTHER!!! This is exactly what I am speaking about in my article. The Orlando HamCation is one of the largest and older hamfests nationwide. Their website stated that they had a record breaking attendance over 7,000!!! Several groups shared the planning, expenses and profits. Unfortunately some of us believe territorial and egotistical lines be predetermined between us. That preprograms several groups and the amateur community into the defeatism mode and failure. IT IS NOW TIME IN THE AMATEUR RADIO NATIONWIDE COMMUNITY TO REFORMAT THE HARD DRIVE!!!

Thanks Gil for the fantastic positive post!!!

Bob Scupp WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K5SEP

04-05-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote[/b] (KG4RUL @ April 04 2005,21:19)]I guess that I have been going to the good hamfests. #Some even have a test bench set up with antennas, power supplies and some test gear.

Dennis #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Dennis KG4RUL-

It is a fantastic idea to have a repair/workbench at a hamfest! Nothing elaborate but just the basic test equipment such as a VOM/VTVM, tube tester, etc. I am now bringing a Precision Instruments Model 920 tube tester and VTVM RCA Volt Ohmyst Junior (WWII) on my display table (both are working!). If for no other reason
they are great conversation pieces and attract attention! Tube testers are now strictly collectors items. Many antique radio collectors clubs sponsor repair clinics for antique radios. I am a life member of the New Mexico Radio Collectors Club in Albuquerque. Radio Amateurs can do the same at hamfests or other special events
Anything unique such as I mentioned can attract interest at a hamfest. Great idea Dennis and I second your motion!!!

Bob Scupp WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

AC4BB

04-06-2005, 06:12 AM

The problem with the majority of hamfests is the stuff is "Over priced" The tailgaters have gone totally nuts on some of the items they have. For example: last year, a tailgater had a "very used" TS 520 not "S" just analog 520. And they're asking $400.00 get real that radio's almost 40 years old. And in rough shape . And wouldn't guarantee it would even work LOL. And a lot of what's at them today are 11 meters Scanners"Old ones" junk computers jewelery, toys. If I wanted to pay full price I would just order it online. And not have al;l that hassle.

I went to hamfest 2 years ago and went tailgating, and it came a torrential downpour. The fellow tailgating took cover and let it rain all over everything on the truck bed. Some nice radio's included. Would you buy a radio that had been out in the rain knowing it had.? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

K5SEP

04-06-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote[/b] (AC4BB @ April 06 2005,06:12)]The #problem with the #majority #of #hamfests #is #the #stuff #is "Over priced" # The #tailgaters #have #gone totally #nuts #on some of the #items #they #have. #For #example: #last year, #a #tailgater #had a #"very used" #TS 520 #not #"S" #just #analog 520. #And #they're #asking #$400.00 #get real #that radio's #almost #40 years old. #And in rough shape . And wouldn't #guarantee #it #would #even #work #LOL. #And #a lot #of #what's #at them today #are 11 meters Scanners"Old ones" #junk #computers #jewelery, toys. #If #I #wanted #to pay #full price #I #would #just #order it online. #And #not #have #al;l that #hassle.

I went #to #hamfest #2 #years #ago #and #went #tailgating, #and #it #came #a #torrential #downpour. #The #fellow #tailgating #took #cover #and #let #it rain #all #over #everything #on the #truck #bed. #Some #nice radio's #included. #Would #you #buy a #radio #that #had #been out in the rain knowing it #had.? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
AC4BB -

If a seller does not take care of their equipment there is no incentive to consider buying it! I do not blame you for that. But what about having eyeball QSO's, making new friends and sharing experiences with our fellow Radio Amateurs? It is more personable to do this in person at a hamfest. E-Bay, chatrooms and forums like this one are fine. But whatever happened to Radio Amateurs setting an example of human relationship principles which earned us a license (elmering)? Sharing the on the air experiences and relating to others at a hamfest is a great joy. Moreover it gives us a good image to the public and authorities to justify our frequencies and other privileges. It also is beneficial to attract new Radio Amateurs and retaining as many of the ones we already have got. It goes far beyond just giving us an image. It gives us as Radio Amateurs a purpose for being here.

Best 73's,

Bob Scupp WB5YYX

w4fjf

04-12-2005, 07:42 AM

When I go to a hamfest, I expect to see vendors of ham radio gear. I expect to see the flea market full of used RADIO gear. I expect to see tailgaters outside selling their RADIO gear. I do not want to see the building #half full of old, unreliable computer junk ( sound cards, modems, mother boards laying exposed without their anti static packaging ). Several hamfests in Alabama and in the Atlanta area were like that last year. Its real disappointing, going to a hamfest to look for a good used radio, and finding a bunch of trash 80's, and other computer crap, no vendors, and no fellowship from other hams because they had abandoned the hamfest early due to the computer stuff overwhelming the real purpose of a hamfest. There are two hamfests that I've written off because of the lack of real radios, and real radio parts. Sorry fellas, if it aint a real hamfest, better call it a "compufest" so I know not to bother coming.:angry:

K5SEP

04-13-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote[/b] (w4fjf @ April 12 2005,07:42)]When I go to a hamfest, I expect to see vendors of ham radio gear. I expect to see the flea market full of used RADIO gear. I expect to see tailgaters outside selling their RADIO gear. I do not want to see the building #half full of old, unreliable computer junk ( sound cards, modems, mother boards laying exposed without their anti static packaging ). Several hamfests in Alabama and in the Atlanta area were like that last year. Its real disappointing, going to a hamfest to look for a good used radio, and finding a bunch of trash 80's, and other computer crap, no vendors, and no fellowship from other hams because they had abandoned the hamfest early due to the computer stuff overwhelming the real purpose of a hamfest. There are two hamfests that I've written off because of the lack of real radios, and real radio parts. Sorry fellas, if it aint a real hamfest, better call it a "compufest" so I know not to bother coming.:angry:
w4fjf -

Please read my responses in the replies below:

Posted: April 04 2005,12:16 n8yx -

Posted: April 04 2005,21:16 # #

This was posted to EHAM.NET:

RE: A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources #Reply #
by WB5YYX on April 4, 2005 #Mail this to a friend! #
A Pooling Of Amateur Radio Resources Reply
by KB3MCU

Bob Scupp WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

n8yx

04-18-2005, 10:52 AM

Quote[/b] (WB5YYX @ April 13 2005,14:52)]Quote[/b] (w4fjf @ April 12 2005,07:42)]When I go to a hamfest, I expect to see vendors of ham radio gear. I expect to see the flea market full of used RADIO gear. I expect to see tailgaters outside selling their RADIO gear. I do not want to see the building half full of old, unreliable computer junk ( sound cards, modems, mother boards laying exposed without their anti static packaging ). Several hamfests in Alabama and in the Atlanta area were like that last year. Its real disappointing, going to a hamfest to look for a good used radio, and finding a bunch of trash 80's, and other computer crap, no vendors, and no fellowship from other hams because they had abandoned the hamfest early due to the computer stuff overwhelming the real purpose of a hamfest. There are two hamfests that I've written off because of the lack of real radios, and real radio parts. Sorry fellas, if it aint a real hamfest, better call it a "compufest" so I know not to bother coming.:angry:
We went to another one yesterday; the location of such will be withheld to protect the guilty.

Better than 50% of the stuff was NOT RADIO related, let alone ham-radio-related. With a few notable exceptions, most of the radio gear that was on display had been beat straight halfway to he!!...and was priced at a premium! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

When I go to a 'fest and pony up $$$ for admission, I do NOT want to see:

A) Your kids' toys;
B) Your wife's Beanie Baby collection
C) Your cabinet full of Wayne Newton and Dean Martin LPs;
D) Yours and your wife's Avon/Amway product display booth;
E) 15-year-old computer equipment that was garbage then and is smoked-filled garbage now

Slowly but surely I'm crossing our local 'fests off my list. There was a day when the quality of merchandise was much higher...and the events stayed truer to their roots.

Never been to Dayton; am going for the first time this year. If that event is plagued with the same bullspit as our local 'fests, I'll likely not go back. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

WA2ZDY

04-18-2005, 12:37 PM

I've gone to a few local hamfests in the past few years and been very disappointed. As others have said, the non-ham junk, and even that junk that IS (or was) ham gear, outnumbers the decent buyable stuff by a large margin. And the vendors that were at most of the fests were selling garbage. One vendor was selling ham antennas for what seemed to be a fair price. I even bought one. Then I read on the net that the company is an old time CB vendor who sells junk. Yep, the antenna I bought fit into that category.

For the same risk of non-working stuff, the online auctions are just as reliable and less hassle than hamfests. And as for items at hamfests being overpriced, they are only priced at what folks are willing to pay. And the online auctions are selling the same rigs for the same prices, so . . .

I go to the fests just for the social interaction, and more and more that's a waste of time as I don't know the newer guys who still think the fests are all that. I feel like an OF at some of these fests, knowing what the old stuff is and knowing all too well it's junk.

K5SEP

04-18-2005, 02:31 PM

n8yx, WA2ZDY and others-

I know it is frustrating going to a hamfest under the conditions you both mentioned. It is unfortunate this occurs. However as I have mentioned before, HOW SHOULD THOSE RUNNING A HAMFEST FILTER THE SELLERS OR SHOULD THEY? It may not be as easy as it seems! LET'S HEAR COMMENTS WHETHER THIS ISSUE CAN OR SHOULD BE ADDRESSED! HAVE YOU SUGGESTED ANYTHING TO HAMFEST SPONSORS AND WHAT WAS THEIR REPLY? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Thanks,

Bob Scupp WB5YYX

KC0NBW

04-18-2005, 11:45 PM

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ April 18 2005,03:52)]Never been to Dayton; am going for the first time this year. If that event is plagued with the same bullspit as our local 'fests, I'll likely not go back. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
i went to dayton last year for the first time and most likely the last time !

it was mostly over priced computer junk and the other stuff you mentioned unless you had the bucks to buy brand new . #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

n8yx

04-19-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote[/b] (WB5YYX @ April 18 2005,07:31)]HOW SHOULD THOSE RUNNING A HAMFEST FILTER THE SELLERS OR SHOULD THEY? It may not be as easy as it seems!
Sure it is.

I (they) own the club.

I (they) organize the 'fest.

I (they) state up front and in no uncertain terms what is acceptable to put on display and what isn't. Then include a statement to the effect that anyone violating those terms will be asked to pack their stuff up and leave the event.

But...wait...I can hear the screaming and crying now - "We're gonna miss out on all that muuuu-nnnneeee!!!!"

Sure you will. For now. But it'll be back, when word gets around that the quality of your event has improved.

Hint: Ebay is making a killing for the simple reason that if a person wants a certain item, he or she can usually find it there. Apply said logic to the 'fests...keep the content pertinent to the event...and people will begin to show up again. In droves. With $$$.

WA2ZDY

04-19-2005, 12:24 PM

I think N8YX is right, but I've never been involved in organising a hamfest, so it's just my hunch. Sadly though, I don't think most clubs can afford the time it will take for the message to get around and attract profitable numbers of hams again.

I think seminars and social functions added to a hamfest would be a big help. But how many speakers can a small club gather for such a thing?

K5SEP

04-19-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ April 19 2005,10:02)]Quote[/b] (WB5YYX @ April 18 2005,07:31)]HOW SHOULD THOSE RUNNING A HAMFEST FILTER THE SELLERS OR SHOULD THEY? It may not be as easy as it seems!
Sure it is.

I (they) own the club.

I (they) organize the 'fest.

I (they) state up front and in no uncertain terms what is acceptable to put on display and what isn't. Then include a statement to the effect that anyone violating those terms will be asked to pack their stuff up and leave the event.

But...wait...I can hear the screaming and crying now - "We're gonna miss out on all that muuuu-nnnneeee!!!!"

Sure you will. For now. But it'll be back, when word gets around that the quality of your event has improved.

Hint: Ebay is making a killing for the simple reason that if a person wants a certain item, he or she can usually find it there. Apply said logic to the 'fests...keep the content pertinent to the event...and people will begin to show up again. In droves. With $$$.
n8yx-

I understand the "they" concept, but have you yourself personally tried to enforce this and if so what were the results? HOW ABOUT OTHER COMMENTS FROM AMATEURS WHO ENFORCED THIS POLICY PLEASE?

Thanks!

Bob Scupp WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

k4kyv

04-19-2005, 11:56 PM

I used to go to hamfests mainly for the fleamarket to look for transmitting components, old radio books and magazines, hard-to-find antique/vintage items and occasionally some item of good used gear. Sometimes real bargains could be found. In the early 70's I can recall driving as far as 400 miles and filling my car with goodies (one of those early 60's tanks with tailfins, requirement for two parking spaces and a trunk that would hold more than my compact pickup does today) . I would return with the trunk full. So would be the back seat and even the front passenger seat, leaving just enough room in the vehicle for me to squeeze in to drive. The leaf springs would often be inverted.

Luckily I during the 60's and 70's I accumulated enough stuff to create my own private radio parts warehouse while it was cheap and abundant. Last time I went to Dayton (2 years ago) I could have packed everything I purchased in one large Wal-mart shopping bag.

The "goodies" just weren't there. Most of the used gear was overpriced. Loads of non-radio industrial surplus and junk computer stuff.

I suspect one of the reasons the good stuff is getting scarce is the decline in interest in homebrewing within the amateur community. Who wants to lug several hundred pounds of transformers, capacitors, meters, and other construction material only to lug most of it back home after the event is over. There is less and less military surplus available, and declining interest in WW2 vintage radio gear except amongst the speciality collectors.

Plus, in my case, I am much more picky about what I bring home nowadays because of the storage space problem, and the fact that many of the items I would have been tempted to commit murder for in earlier days are now lying around in abundance in my junk collection.

With less likelihood of finding something of interest to bring home, my interest in attending hamfests has declined.

The Dayton fleamarket has gone semi-commercial. Because of the high cost of fleamarket space and the necessity to register long in advance, you rarely any longer see the individual ham who decided at the last minute to bring some junk to peddle. A large fraction of the spaces are rented by the "professional" hamfest dealers, who go from hamfest to hamfest with their travel trailers, offering few bargains. I see some of the same pieces of equipment bounce from space to space from year to year.

Don K4KYV

K5SEP

04-20-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ April 19 2005,23:56)]I used to go to hamfests mainly for the fleamarket to look for #transmitting components, old radio books and magazines, hard-to-find antique/vintage items and occasionally some item of good used gear. #Sometimes real bargains could be found. #In the early 70's I can recall driving as far as 400 miles and filling my car with goodies (one of those early 60's tanks with tailfins, requirement for two parking spaces and a trunk that would hold more than my compact pickup does today) . # I would return with the trunk full. So would be the back seat and even the front passenger seat, leaving just enough room in the vehicle for me to squeeze in to drive. #The leaf springs would often be inverted.

Luckily I during the 60's and 70's I accumulated enough stuff to create my own private radio parts warehouse while it was cheap and abundant. #Last time I went to Dayton (2 years ago) I could have packed everything I purchased in one large Wal-mart shopping bag.

The "goodies" just weren't there. #Most of the used gear was overpriced. #Loads of non-radio industrial surplus and junk computer stuff.

I suspect one of the reasons the good stuff is getting scarce is the decline in interest in homebrewing within the amateur community. #Who wants to lug several hundred pounds of transformers, capacitors, meters, and other construction material only to lug most of it back home after the event is over. #There is #less and less military surplus available, and declining interest in WW2 vintage radio gear except amongst the speciality collectors.

Plus, in my case, I am much more picky about what I bring home nowadays because of the storage space problem, and the fact that many of the items I would have been tempted to commit murder for in earlier days are now lying around in abundance in my junk collection.

With less likelihood of finding something of interest to bring home, my interest in attending hamfests has declined.

The Dayton fleamarket has gone semi-commercial. #Because of the high cost of fleamarket space and the necessity to register long in advance, you rarely any longer see the individual ham who decided at the last minute to bring some junk to peddle. #A large fraction of the spaces are rented by the "professional" hamfest dealers, who go from hamfest to hamfest with their travel trailers, offering few bargains. #I see some of the same pieces of equipment bounce from space to space from year to year.

Don K4KYV
Don K4KYV -

Thank you Don for your excellent observations by comparison of past hamfests with the ones of today. I certainly agree with you that travel expenses have made hamfest attendance a choice of expense versus benefit more so today, especially for sellers. While I have already covered overpriced amateur, computer, etc. equipment, more individuals should realisticly price and be somewhat flexible. What is the sense of traveling from hamfest to hamfest with the same overpriced equipment, no or little sales, and continuing to only increase expenses out of sight? At least recover one's expenses and hopefully some profit. Better a little profit than only hugh expenses! Good
comments and thoughts Don! Thank you.

Bob Scupp WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

n8yx

04-20-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote[/b] (WB5YYX @ April 19 2005,06:44)]I understand the "they" concept, but have you yourself personally tried to enforce this and if so what were the results?
I haven't for a ham-radio-related fleamarket, but I have for other venues. We typically don't have problems.

To wit:

The organizers of an event such as a hamfest need to state the rules clearly and up front. Those who break said rules will be asked to leave - vendor fees being returned in full. Those who refuse to do so may subsequently be charged with trespassing. (A security presence is ALWAYS a good thing, the size of which depending on the nature of the event.)

If a radio club wishes to hold a computer show independently of a regularly-scheduled hamfest, I'm all for it. The main reason I go to computer shows is so that I can find any pieces/parts I may need without having to root through mounds of cr@p. The argument that computer equipment can be used in a ham shack -MIGHT- be a valid one, but tell me how and where the aforementioned Beanie Babies, Moldie Oldies LPs and other non-electronic items fit into said radio shack?

The point of one having to pay an entry fee to a "hamfest" then being inundated with heaps of non-ham JUNK is what frosts me the most. If the 'fests were free, I wouldn't care as much. But they're not...and IMHO, I (along with all the other attendees) should be getting better value for my entry dollars.

K5SEP

04-25-2005, 01:44 AM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Mar. 31 2005,15:40)]Sorry to burst your bubble, but if a seller is unwilling to let you take an item to see if it lights up on an ac outlet or a dc power supply, then that is a GOOD reason to stay away from the entire table. # But at least it IS better than buying thru #" internet hook ups " where you are more or less buying something while blindfolded.
ai4ep -

Actually you have re-enforced my bubble! In a previous post I stated that I myself have encountered sellers who where inflexible in pricing and could not plug in the equipment. I also thank them politely and just continue on my way. I do think that it is unfortunate that it effects attendees. Some complain that it was a bad hamfest with prices too high, etc. I refuse to let it bother me to the point of spoiling my own positive experience. I can always swap tall tails, meet my old acquaintances and make new friends! I can also find newcomers, potential Amateurs and experienced ones who I can assist in someway.

In Albuquerque, New Mexico yesterday we had a tailgate swapfest. My computer monitor smoked on me a week ago. I had a freind give me an old working Wang 15" monitor. I also found a low hours usuage 19" Samsung flat screen monitor, like new condition. It came with an instruction manual and Windows install disk and is high resolution. I know the person (W9EKB) who sold it to me for $40.00. I had no way to test it but he contacted me today on 2 meters to see how I and it was doing. I did not need to use the install disk. The Samsung monitor worked perfectly and looks like HDTV/projection TV very high resolution. I also purchased an excellent condition Hallicrafters S-76 receiver with original instruction manual (1955). It also came with an instruction manual for a Central Electronics Sideband Slicer (also 1955). He is going to send me the Sideband Slicer. I have his name, callsign and e-mail address. All this for $60.00!
He also has an inventory of over eleven thousand electron tubes and e-mailed me the list! I collect and repair antique radios/classic Amateur Radio equipment. I also have a part-time business where I buy, sell, trade and repair all this and more. I also purchased an Emerson tabletop AM clock radio (circa late 1950's-early 1960's) and Motorola "Solid State" transistor battery operated radio, both in excellent condition, for twenty dollars!

I was very happy to say the least to get this equipment. This is a case perhaps for letting such things into a hamfest for diversification in related cross-interests. There are always exceptions and I was happy I found a few!

Thank you for posting to my topic,

Bob Scupp WB5YYX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif