The Smashing and Bashing

[KC2KQH]

I have recently started reading some of the posts in the talk and opinion forum. I usually stick to the Q&A, but have pretty much caught up on that. Reading through this forum, its no wonder we as hams have a hard time getting new members. All one has to do is read through here and they will feel ashamed of their own license if it was obtained in the last few years. The talk of how the nct's and memorizers (of the question pool), it makes those of us who actually did try to do it right hang our heads in shame. Well, I have to go get my turnout gear from the firehouse and come back to read where this will go. So bring on the flames! I'll get back to the air now.
73, Ryan -KC2KQH

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KC2KQH @ Mar. 30 2005,08:50)]I have recently started reading some of the posts in the talk and opinion forum. I usually stick to the Q&A, but have pretty much caught up on that. Reading through this forum, its no wonder we as hams have a hard time getting new members. All one has to do is read through here and they will feel ashamed of their own license if it was obtained in the last few years. The talk of how the nct's and memorizers (of the question pool), it makes those of us who actually did try to do it right hang our heads in shame. Well, I have to go get my turnout gear from the firehouse and come back to read where this will go. So bring on the flames! I'll get back to the air now.
73, Ryan -KC2KQH
While I do not always agree with the posts in talks and opinions, I will defend anybodys right to speak their mind. It's exactly why that area is about opinions. Nobody has to agree with any of it, nor do they have to sit idly by if they have something of their own to say. Like listening to a radio, if you don't like it vote with your hands and

Spin the dial.

[W3MIV]

The short answer to the original post is no.

[K6UEY]

Can some one fill me in on the original question?
I re read it and all I see is a lot more whineing and crying, and moaning and groaning,which is begining to be the identifier for the 21st Century crowd. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

POST EDIT:
Suggestion,RYAN, wait for the ink to dry before you start rearranging the furniture!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[ai4ep]

Well if you go to a select few CB RADIO WEBSITES ( look for them your self..if you know how ) you will find the very same thing ..." waa waa, unit 456 walked on my contact with the east coast yesterday "... " waa waa my neighbor has an illegal linear amplifier and messes up my mom s old B & W tv with the bowtie antenna that has been up on the roof since the early 1960 's " & " waa waa ...truckers bleed over on to channel 20 from 19...why wont they stop ? " ....yet new cb radios are sold every day ( license free...dont forget that part ...no test at all required ; just buy the rig & antenna and go on the air with your very own coded handle )....so really, what the (*&^ is the &^%$ difference ?


You are thinking too much...behave or you might strain something !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W5HTW]

Your turn will come. Check this:

In 1951, Class A and B licensees resented that now a new Novice class license could get on the HF bands. No serious theory, and a code speed of only 5 wpm.

In 1968 General class hams resented that they lost privileges to Advanced and Extra hams.

Sometime in the 1970s, the rule was changed. Prior to then, a Novice licensee could hold that license only once in his lifetime, and could not renew it. Upgrade or quit. But now the rule was, it was for two years, and was renewable. I don't remember the date that happened.

Around that same time, all those who had had to have two years experience of General or Advanced, in order to even *take* the Extra Class test, resented that the rule was changed and now no experience was required to be an expert.

In 1991 all those who had taken the Technician Class and had been required to take a code test, resented the new Technician who had Tech privileges, but no longer had to take a code test. "Darn, I had to do it. Why don't that?"

After 1999, all those who had struggled to get 13 wpm code for General or 20 wpm code for Extra, resented those who were given the same licenses for 5 wpm. "Darn, I had to do it. Why don't they?"

Coming soon, to ham bands near you, today's hams will get to complain about the new code free General and the automatic upgrades of Novices and Techs to General. "Darn, I had to take the test. Why don't they?" And you'll be automatically upgraded.

Then, your turn comes! Code testing is removed from any class of license, and all current classes become Extra Class. You will be upgraded. But then, new "HAMS" coming into the hobby will be up there where you are! And you'll resent it. "Darn, I had to take a test. Why don't they?"

Then, in the next time, you, and hundreds of thousands of other hams will be moaning that the newest "HAM" can get his license by answering five questions on the rules, and he's equal to you. And my gosh, you struggled to get where you are. Now he's right beside you, and with practically zero effort. "Darn, I had to work for this, at least some. Why doesn't he?"

So hang in there, amigo. Your day is approaching!

Ed

[w8znx]

ahoy 2kqh

remember its all
meaningless internet
bs
nothing more
nothing less

most nct's here
can take it
and dish it out

nothing new
more things change
more they stay the same

there is a long letter to ed.
in magazine

old time, real ham op complaining
about how young squirt new ops
got their license too easy

and how these new hams
are wrecking amateur radio
for all the real hams
that realy had to work
for their license

in 1937 "radio magazine"
became cq after ww2

40 some yrs ago
i was young squirt
novice op
many older ops
at my local club
and on the air
treated novice ops like pond scum

( for code tecs was worse they were
looked down as failed hams
that could not cut it )

but often
these were same
ops that would help
get ur lash up, on the air

and when you could not
figure out why ur junk 30 year old
receiver would not work
they would help you fix it
and explain the how and whys

some of the ops here
on qrz that bash nct's
are same ones
also more than willing
to elmer nct's wanting
to learn morse code
and help them set up their
hf lash up

mac

the voice of the duke of madness radio
home of marconi the wireless pup

[ai4ep]

so...( tell me if I got this completely backwards or even just a tad-bit incorrect )...some folks want every one else to have a hard time upgrading; but they want it made easy for them and their cronies. .. ?

[K6UEY]

AI4EP,
Almost but no cigar,
Each succeeding group wants the same privileges and benefits as those who went before them,but they want them fo FREE!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Mar. 30 2005,11:34)]Your turn will come. Check this:

In 1951, Class A and B licensees resented that now a new Novice class license could get on the HF bands. No serious theory, and a code speed of only 5 wpm.

In 1968 General class hams resented that they lost privileges to Advanced and Extra hams.
Ed

You forgot to include 1953 when the Generals received all amatuer privileges and really steamed the Extra and Advanced (old Class A) ops as they had to EARN it and the damn FCC gave it it away.

73
George
K3UD

[W5HTW]

Yep, I did forget. Somewhere I have a list of when each change in licensing occurred, the year at least. I have no idea where that list is! Like Novice enhancement making it a two year license. Like Novice enhancement making it renewable. Like Novice enhancement making it a ten year license (and maybe a five year before that) and permanently renewable. (Beginner forever.) But I wasn't doing ham radio in 1953 -- although a sort of distant cousin tried to get me into it just about that time.

Ed

[al2n]

I can see the point the OP is making.

Imagine for a moment that you hear something about Amateur Radio. Sounds interesting enough that you want to find out more. Where does a good portion of folks look these days for information? The internet, of course.

Type in ham radio in Google and you will see that QRZ is the 4th site listed. Someone searching for info will more than likely come to this site in short order. They will then see the forums and start to read to get an idea as to the nature of real hams and what they are like.

How would that person, with no knowlege of ham radio, react when they read how some of the posters here refer to those who got their ticket in the last few years?

They will see words like "dumb", "CB user", "stupid", "ignorant", etc...

Now who in their right mind would want to join a hobby just so they can be called a poor excuse for a ham radio operator based simply on what period in time they got their lisence??

That is what a perspective ham can see when they come to this forum. What is worse is when that perspective ham takes the time to register and post a question. How many threads have you seen where someone asks a simple question only to get reamed by some OF who spends more time moaning about how dumb kids are these days when it would have taken less time to give a simple answer to the question?

If you want new hams to have more knowlege about ham radio, give this a try:

Help them pass the exam.

Then help them learn more about the hobby.

Introduce them to homebrewing, offer to help with CW, suggest some reading on basic electronics theory. Invite them to a club meeting, give them some of your old ham magazines, introduce them to other hams in the area.

Of course, those that really need to take this post to heart will either not read it or ignore the content in exchange for the flame.

[K6UEY]

I think what we should do is invite them to Aunt Emma's Quilt patchin and Social Club and Offer to take the TEST for them,after all we would probably have as much trouble spelling their name as they would.
Maybe we could pass the Hat around and get enuff to get them a 2 meter handi talkie to put on their belt.
BOY!! Wouldn't that make amature radio a proud organization to belong to ,wouldn't it?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Mar. 30 2005,18:58)]Like Novice enhancement making it a ten year license (and maybe a five year before that) and permanently renewable. #(Beginner forever.)
KB2GSD ring any bells?

[W5MJL]

I think qrz is an information resource, and should be used as such. I don't like rudeness to legitimate questions no matter how simple they may seem. I do have absolutely no respect for anyone who cannot follow the rules, and/or requirements for amateur radio.

If you want in on the privileges of amateur radio, then do what is required of you. It is a privilege, not a God Given Right. Anyone can come up with 10,000 reasons as to why they shouldn't have to take a code test, or take a written test to be in amateur radio. The point is THERE IS A REQUIREMENT. If you want to be in amateur radio you have to meet the current day requirements.

Nuff said.

[kb2vxa]

Hi Ryan and all,

Unbenownst to all but friends and associates, perhaps until now is the fact that I was well bersed in radio electronics, antennas and all that good stuff 30 years before acing my test in 15 minutes and walking away with a 100% score. I just ignore all the crap they toss at us NCTs, little by little the gang on QRZ is figuring out that I know my stuff.

Yeah, I have heard all the whinging from the "I had to learn it so they have to too" regardless if the whole subject is irrevelent today. It's an ever changing world and if the dinosaurs want to hold their ground we mammals will take over the world, I don't care.

Forget the A license, I know a guy who drives a Ford Model A 2M mobile and draws a crowd. Naturally once they get past the shiny green and black car the focus is on the RADIO.

Let them say what they will, like a duck in the rain you'll stay dry without your turnout suit but sometimes you may need the Scott air pack.

[K9STH]

UEY:

Do you remember the "Aunt Emma" cartoons that used to be syndicated? This was the one where the main character had a "hairdo" that looked like a television antenna?

Glen, K9STH

[K6UEY]

K9STH,
No GLEN,that's one I don't recall. I used "Aunt EMMA"since most mature adults either had an Aunt Emma or had a friend who recalled one. Especially true of those in the central part of the country who were born after the 1920's.

The Ladies would gather at Aunt Emma's and have a Quilting and Gossip catching up party,while the men went out to the barn to smoke and embibe on the newly fermented cider,while looking over the newly acquired BULL.
I guess it was the need to Gossip and the BULL that I associated with modern day Ham Radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ April 01 2005,20:23)]UEY:

Do you remember the "Aunt Emma" cartoons that used to be syndicated? #This was the one where the main character had a "hairdo" that looked like a television antenna?

Glen, K9STH
STH:

I believe it was "Aunt Tenna" (making the obvious pun on the hairdo with, if I recall, a comb in her hair).

[K7KBN]

Yep, "Aunt Tenna". The cartoonist was Bil Keane, who still does one of W3SY's favorites, "Family Circus".

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Mar. 30 2005,14:38)]You forgot to include 1953 when the Generals received all amatuer privileges and really steamed the Extra and Advanced (old Class A) ops as they had to EARN it and the damn FCC gave it it away.
That all culminated ten years later when the ARRL published their (in)famous editorial in QST suggesting a return to "incentive" licensing.

Five years later the FCC adopted incentive licensing, but it was not what the ARRL was seeking nor what the OT's were assuming would happen. Instead, the FCC came with its own plan and divided the bands into segments, leaving us with a matrix of subband privileges based on licence class and emission mode, saddling US hams with the most complex subband structure ever created anywhere in the world.

It turned out to be a dismal failure, in terms of the stated intent of incentive licensing in the League's original editorial. But today it allows a lot of people to demonstrate their ability to memorise Q-A's verbatum, whether or not they have any knowledge of the subject matter - much as in high school.

So watch what you ask for, especially to the FCC. You just might get it, but not necessarily in the format you requested.

[n7wsb]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Mar. 30 2005,09:33)]Well if you go to a select few CB RADIO WEBSITES ( look for them your self..if you know how ) you will find the very same thing ..." waa waa, unit 456 walked on my contact with the east coast yesterday "... " waa waa my neighbor has an illegal linear amplifier and messes up my mom s old B & W tv with the bowtie antenna that has been up on the roof since the early 1960 's " & " waa waa ...truckers bleed over on to channel 20 from 19...why wont they stop ? " ....yet new cb radios are sold every day ( license free...dont forget that part ...no test at all required ; just buy the rig & antenna and go on the air with your very own coded handle )....so really, what the (*&^ is the &^%$ difference ?


You are thinking too much...behave or you might strain something !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I don't think people buy cb-radios anymore really. Plenty of articles state that cb radio sales are so poor that no consumer electronics group even tracks them anymore.

Cell phones have replaced cb radios.

[K6UEY]

It is nothing to worry about,Cell Phones may have replaced CB ,but Ham radio will reinstate CB. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[k7kwh]

Quote[/b] (n7wsb @ April 02 2005,10:53)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Mar. 30 2005,09:33)]Well if you go to a select few CB RADIO WEBSITES ( look for them your self..if you know how ) you will find the very same thing ..." waa waa, unit 456 walked on my contact with the east coast yesterday "... " waa waa my neighbor has an illegal linear amplifier and messes up my mom s old B & W tv with the bowtie antenna that has been up on the roof since the early 1960 's " & " waa waa ...truckers bleed over on to channel 20 from 19...why wont they stop ? " ....yet new cb radios are sold every day ( license free...dont forget that part ...no test at all required ; just buy the rig & antenna and go on the air with your very own coded handle )....so really, what the (*&^ is the &^%$ difference ?


You are thinking too much...behave or you might strain something !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I don't think people buy cb-radios anymore really. Plenty of articles state that cb radio sales are so poor that no consumer electronics group even tracks them anymore.

Cell phones have replaced cb radios.
Yah not too many CB's are being sold in 'mainstream' stores (i.e. Wal-Mart, K-Mart, et.al.)...however just go to your friendly neighborhood truck stop and you'll either find a complete selection there, or just find one of those 'CB shops' near a truck stop and you'll find ANYTHING you want (right up to those 10KW leeeeenyars!)

K7KWH

[ka9inv]

Ditto. And you definitely can get CB radios at Walmart, most gas stations along major interstates, and of course our beloved Radio Shack!

[ai4ep]

You can buy CB radios at your friendly local hamfest, along with those illegal linear amplifiers !!

[W0LC]

Quote[/b] (KC2KQH @ Mar. 30 2005,06:50)]I have recently started reading some of the posts in the talk and opinion forum. #I usually stick to the Q&A, but have pretty much caught up on that. #Reading through this forum, its no wonder we as hams have a hard time getting new members. #All one has to do is read through here and they will feel ashamed of their own license if it was obtained in the last few years. #The talk of how the nct's and memorizers (of the question pool), it makes those of us who actually did try to do it right hang our heads in shame. #Well, I have to go get my turnout gear from the firehouse and come back to read where this will go. #So bring on the flames! #I'll get back to the air now.
73, Ryan -KC2KQH
Bring up the value in "pro-code" testing and see if smashing and bashing is "dead". Hi!

[W2ILP]

There will always be debates among hams; especially avid hams.
That is simply because ham radio means different things to different people. Older hams complain about the exam and the regulation changes that have taken place since they themselves were licensed and began to operate. Newer hams can not understand why the old hams critisize the supposed changes in the interests and the technical abilities of newer hams. To keep the ham bands occupied ham radio must attract those interested in modern technology...not so much as ancient ham traditions.
I was first licensed in 1951 and there were old hams alive at that time who bad mouthed anyone who used the phone bands and didn't use CW. They called them "Phone Band Phonies". They also critisized the new youngsters who could get licensed as Novices and/or Technicians after passing only a 5 wpm test. I guess it is human nature to resist change. I remember when some hams were blaming other hams for giving ham radio bad PR because they didn't make their rigs more TVI proof. Most of us still critisize the hams who use fowl or bigoted language on the air.

Yep....As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy...and they are us."

73,
Bob W2ILP

[N0KLT]

ILP,

You are right, somethings never change, they just take a different form. I can remember back in the distant days of my youth, we had a kid in my class who was a licensed amateure operator. This was probably jr high or the very early days of high school. I wasn't the slightest bit interested in radio in those days and paid no attention to what he was showing off to us. His parents had money and bought him anything he wanted in great quantities. All I remember is seeing a lot of wires strung in the air around his house and a whole wall full of radio gear in his basement. He was probably at the most 13 when this was going on maybe a little older. And he was already what we would call an "OF" these days. I can remember being down in his basement working on some car or plane models and listening to him complain and b***h about those d*** fool donald duck sounding jerks ruining the airways with their single side band transmissions and how things were going to hell in a hand basket because of this. Guess all that big fancy gear of his was AM only. Looking back, I wish I had paid more attention to the gear and what he was trying to demonstrate to us. But like you said, any change brings out the "OF" types who complain and see the end of civilization as we know it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Happy Monday folks.

[W2ILP]

By the way.
It was I W2ILP who originated a new designation for hams who pass dumbed down and no code exams. I called them "CMBers". CMB means Citizens' MultiBand, and it would apply as:
CMB = No Code + No theory Licensed Amateur Radio Operators.

If it applies to whoever it may apply to, let it stand as the way to bash not CBers but the CMBers who call themselves hams.

The ham radio market is worldwide and most hams are willing to spend more on their stations than CBers do. The manufacturers realize this and know that the Internet and cell phones has caused the market for both CB and Ham equipment to shrink.
Japanese manufacturers (Yaesu, Kenwood and I-Com) continue to succeed by producing not just for U.S. hams but for a world ham market. Locally the ham market can not support many stores dedicated to the sale of ham equipment. Most stuff is bought by mail or internet order or at Ham flea markets. The ARRL is requesting more contributions from hams because the revenue from ham sales can not afford to pay for sustaining the advertising that formerly supported ham radio pubs.
Ham Radio is, for most of us, a non-profit hobby. Many hams do voulnteer their time to work as VEs, participate in ARES/RACES, or experiment with new and exotic modes. But hams and the ARRL may not be able to sustain the hobby as it exists now, unless ham radio can mean something interesting to people who are not already licensed or related to people who are licensed. It is a shame that hams are so divided between Technology and Tradition that they can no longer motivate most people to want to be the hams of the future.

As I read the gripes here on QRZ, there is little that can be agreed upon that can save the future of ham radio any more than the future of Tesla coil communication. Ham who are experimenting with the evolution of digital communication are far behind what is now used commercially. Hams do not have any full duplex protocols and are not permited to use spread spectrum techniques on HF. Hams are not permited to send music on any band. The amateur regulation were made so that hams could not compete with commercial stations. Commercial stations have little to fear from ham communication content these days..
For ham radio to survive we will have to get rid of some of the old regulations...but hams themselves do not agree on that sort of change.

73,
Bob W2ILP