Why are we so different? [Archive]

N6GOF

03-18-2002, 02:36 AM

I hadn't given it any thought up until last night. We are clearly a different breed of operators, but why are we still stereotyped?

Two days ago I was talking with someone in my family about our fantastic hobby. In the process of our discussion he stated "You guys are just snobby CB'ers." I was dumb founded and of course went on the defense of our hobby. Man I was on fire. I told him about attitude, passion, dedication, commitment and knowledge. Saving you from the entire discussion, suffice it to say that I convinced him that we are most certainly NOT to be classified in the same category as a CB'er.

Putting another notch on my belt and priding myself on the job I had done for our hobby, I still couldn't get over the anger that I was feeling regarding the comment. Here it is two days later and I'm still confused how we got this stereotype. Granted, looking in from the outside, I'm sure more think good of us than bad but the idea that anyone would think of us as being nothing but the perfect example of a fine service is frustrating.

In retrospect I suppose I am a bit biased and perhaps overly proud of what we are and that I shouldn't get so worked up over the whole deal.

During the recent release of Frequency we were portrayed as time traveling chatters (hi hi) but in general portrayed us as good people. This was a good start I think and I recall hearing a lot of talk about promoting our hobby during the release period. This was a good example of hams working the P.R. circuit and promoting us in a good light.

What can we do as a collective whole to promote and change our image? I don't have the answer but would enjoy hearing of some ideas. In the meantime I am going to be ready to jump on the next person that calls us a 'Snobby CB'er'. I'll set them straight in a hurry and I hope you will do the same.

Power to the HAM! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

k3zd

03-18-2002, 09:53 PM

I think ur overreacting a bit. #Once I was having a QSO with a ham in Florida. He was an older guy living in a condo. #He said that his neighbors were terrorized by his wire antenna, having no knowledge of what an antenna is about. #He said "most people are smart enough to cook a meal and that's about it."

ad6lr

03-18-2002, 10:33 PM

Hello N6GOF,
Not knowing more about your conversation, it is hard to say if you convinced or just over-powered your relative.
It also seems, from your post that your relative used his/her reference to CB as a put-down of ham radio. Some-times, it helps to find out what a persons objections to ham radio are, before trying to convince them of ham radio's merits. It may be that your relative had some bad experiences with ham radio operators, that you did not address in your response to his/her ham radio put-down.
Or maybe the media which some-times confuses CB with ham radio, may have confused your relative. In any case, I hope your relative was convinced, and that you now realize that ham radio operators have to do more to promote our hobby (service).
73
AD6LR

W5KRM

03-18-2002, 10:46 PM

One thing to keep in mind. CB radio was much more visible years ago then was amateur radio. In fat, many of today's ops were former (or still are) CBers.

Once 2 meter FM mobile became the rage in the late 70's and into the early 80's, that further influenced the public to think we were "all the same". Afterall, that big antenna down the street is that "cber's". IN fat many CB antennas (beams) are very much like the amateur antennas (quads, etc.).

It is a perception problem. Amateur radio isn't well defined with the public and as such, we are categorically called CBers. I don't take offense, but I do tend to correct them and tell them the difference.

No 10-4 stuff here !

N3BIF

03-18-2002, 11:09 PM

I know of many cbers and clubs that exist which are every bit as service oriented as some hams are,remember they are much more restricted in what they can bring to the table than what #amateurs can by virtue of the respective parameters they must adhere to. #
# # # # #I have been a ham for 22 years and I freely admit that my service to my fellow man via Ham radio has been nil , and most assuredly over shadowed by many cbers.....
# # # # # Are there differences ? absolutely ! #But lets be careful not to generalize,

KC2JCA

03-18-2002, 11:22 PM

It's a casual misunderstanding by someone uneducated in the field of either form of radio. The friction between the two comes into play when one person, who feels they have accomplished a goal in life by becoming a "Ham" is met head on by someone who, feeling they have some right to just have things handed to them, comes along and whines constantly about how oppressive Amateur radio is and how "stuck-up" the people who want to follow a few basic rules can be.

But in your case, it's just a simple misunderstanding from someone outside the spectrum. I was sitting at a local coffeeshop with my son and we were participating in a roundtable on 2 meters. Lady down the counter looked at her own son and said, "See how much fun CB can be?"

I said, "Oh, this isn't CB. We are members of the local Amateur Radio Emergency team and provide communication during disasters like Hurricanes and terrorist actions. In fact I can help you and your son get involved in helping the community in time of need through Amateur Radio if you'd like."

"No thanks." She said, and handed her son his GameBoy to shut him up while she phoned her girlfriend on her cell phone to find out what happened when her husband....

73, Jim - kc2jca

03-18-2002, 11:56 PM

Well, I hate being called cb'ers, but hey, oh well. You know people are too arrogant.........we can go on with what I just said, but this is g stuff and also only about amateur radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif But when they find out were the ones that help keep them from ending up in a supercell thunder storm, they will understand http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

73.........Dr. Love/KD5PDA watauga tx

n9xna

03-19-2002, 12:11 AM

Is there a difference between the CBer and the Ham? Its hard to tell some times. I hear a lot of angry words and pushy hams on 20 mtrs. The problem is its just people. There a lot of old timers that seem to think that because they were there "first" that somehow they have first dibs. There are bad cbers and bad hams. Hopefully, these people will be weeded out and courtesy will prevail. The nasty people will still be nasty, but maybe they will take out their anger somewhere else..hopefully not on real people. There is a lot of serious stuff going on in this world. If it hits the fan again, the hams may have to take an active role. Those cell phones may not be usuable, just ask those who lived in N.Y. on 9-11. But until if ever then, your neighbors haven't got a clue about cbers or hams. The guy next door to me couldn't figure who in the world I could be talking to and he did not care when his 49 mhz phone wouldn't work when my 6m rig was on. I fixed that, but he still was not happy. Most people just don't want to see, hear, smell or whatever anything that they can't or won't understand. In this neighbor, before a lot of the old timers moved or died, any change was a threat, including towers, new homes, etc. They just don't like it. The best thing to do is to keep a low profile and don't stress the majority of people with anything that they can't or won't understand. Think about it, one old neighbor was just totally bend out of shape by my gold clubs. Duhh!! Its just people.

73 Vic wk9v

n9kpn

03-19-2002, 12:27 AM

To the average non ham, Amateur radio is no different than CB. #This stereotype is easily formed especially with movie and television depiction of all radio services. #Face it, anything with an antenna and a microphone can communicate on the fourty channels of a CB. #Just watch the movies and television. #

Are we a bunch of snobs? #I have to admit I have met a number of very friendly hams as well as a number of snobs. #Ever had a repeater control operator either shut down the repeater while you were using it or ask you to leave because it was a closed system? #How about the debate of low (or no) code VS 20 WPM? #Or think about the low bands during a contest?

While on vacation I called into a repeater to get local information. #There was a "rag chew" session going on between two locals and I dropped my call sign in a break in the QSO. #One of the two then repeated my call sign (proving I made the repeater) and asked his buddy if he recognized the call. #His buddy said he did not (big surprise, I'd never talked to either of them) and they continued on with their chat. #That might not seem so bad except this same type of thing has happened numerous times to me. #And based on the Q and A section of this board, many new hams have had the same thing happen to them.

If I had to choose one way or another, I'd have to lean towards your relative's side. #Is Amateur radio CB? #As far as the masses are concerned, yes. #Are we High And Mighty, some bad apples make it appear that way. #Should we be upset about it? #No, we should correct the problems, stop infighting, and actually PROMOTE good will.

ve7gun

03-19-2002, 12:56 AM

at one time 13,000,000 cb-ers .5 million hams world wide hams , ratio of bad hams was greater, cb still gives day to day help more than hams, hams if they help, may call for help, cb operators go help when needed, on the road even some truckers will offer help they aren`t all bad .I had cb radio in 1960 was often first on scene of accidents in my area many have taken training in first aid and search and rescue volunter fire dept etc. there are bad apples on both, many hams never were cbers and aren`t good enought to make one, listen to 80m 20m mostly, listen to 2 letter calls contesting on 28.00000 using voice in US when told they say they aren`t out of band as a novice in portland Darell of Hood View club taught us stay from band edge 1.5 kc min. I travel from west coast to east on I-90 down to south Georgia scross south to Bakersfield up I-5 to British Columbia. It is hard to get a repeater with no tones a lot of places and when ARRL repeater guide lists a lot of mountain top sites what town is that ? I would not travel with out cb radio society class cb (2m) just don`t cut it other bands of little use for help . I was in Florida after Andrew emergency ham? some hand helds if you were lucky , all towers were down a lot was learned there .I have heard several hams complain their pic not in paper for helping , most cbers just like to feel good for helping ,want to know about attitude ?? try explaining good points in both systems . It took 25 years to pass cw, I still use cb I must be a bad ham ? 73 to all see you on I-link Larry

03-19-2002, 01:03 AM

hummm, snobs? well, if "snobby" means "worked hard to take examinations, and work hard to follow the rules", well, just sign me "SNOB" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

n5xm

03-19-2002, 01:16 AM

Eric, I don't know what difference it makes. It's real easy to preach to the choir. I think there is a lot of arrogance in our hobby, but in the same breath, I will agree that it is the finest hobby known to man. I can only think of one thing more fun to do, and I sure as heck can't talk about that here!
# # #I've said this before, and I will say it again, we are either part of the problem or we are part of the solution. I can't do a thing about some smug idiot who acts like he is God's gift to Radio. I can make sure I am the best Ambassador I can be for Amateur Radio. There are idiots EVERYWHERE, Eric, and some of them have Ham tickets. Generally speaking, Hams are intelligent, well-read, curious people who sometimes take themselves a little too seriously. I am reminded of the old saying about how we should "be serious, but not take ourselves too seriously". #There are a lot of people out there who take themselves WAY too seriously. #What we can do is educate the unknowing and unaware in a gentle fashion, so that they see the positive side of Amateur Radio. #We can hope that those who would not be good examples for the non-Ham public will be as far behind the scenes as possible, but that isn't always the case. #That being said, people like you and me, and some of the other who have posted on this very interesting thread, should do what we can do to make sure we represent Amateur Radio in the very best light we can, and that includes our on-air behaviour. #Sometimes I think we do forget that people are listening. #We're gonna have to settle for making haste slowly, because that is the only way it's gonna happen. Over time.

K4ZRP

03-19-2002, 01:17 AM

The bottom line? More effort needs to be spent on promoting amateur radio to the public. The ARRL for example, should be funding professionally made public service announcements explaining amateur radio, and in particular its role in disaster communications. Yep, it won't be cheap but it's time to bring this great avocation out of "stealth" mode!

Out of the following, which ones are the general public familiar with:

The Red Cross, the United Way, the American Heart Association, The ARRL. Get it?

kb1hwq

03-19-2002, 02:42 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #This sounds so familiar! #I'm new to Ham but this sterotyping is everywhere. #I drive a car with a loud dual exhaust so I must be a street racer even though you wouldn't see me spinning my wheels anywhere but the track. #I work in the computer industry so I must be a geek/nerd. #

People choose to be ignorant.
It's every where, can't let it get to ya though.

Sometimes it's even entertaining

k1xv

03-19-2002, 02:46 AM

When somebody ignorant and closed minded complains about the size of my antennas, or anything else about my activities, and calls it a "cb antenna", or calls me a "CBer", I do nothing to correct them.

However, for those who are truly curious, #my collection of QSL cards from all over the world, military and commercial radios, boatanchors, etc. demonstrates that we are very different from CBers.

03-19-2002, 03:01 AM

I have a feeling that when we go to meet our maker he’s not going to be asking what our call sign is or how many wpm we know or what kind of rig we have. #After wanting to become a ham for almost 50 years I finally have, but only for two reasons: 1)to prove to myself that I could and 2)to fulfill a lifelong dream before ham radio goes away and I no longer have the chance.

So far, (six days) I’ve met some really nice people that make me feel like I did the right thing and I’ve met some real snobs that could spoil the whole experience for me if I allow them to.

I haven’t paid attention to any of this before but what I have heard so far sounds like a lot of snobbery to me. So maybe as a ex-CBer I will go from being nothing to extra class in less that 60 days just to prove it isn’t all that hard and is nothing all that special.

After 911 I would have thought that most of us would have learned what we should have learned in Sunday school or in kindergarten the most important thing that we can learn in life is how we can all get along together.

So now I have to ask myself if I really feel that way why do I think I sound like I'm trying to pick a fight?

The devil made me do it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

AA2QA

03-19-2002, 03:10 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ve7gun @ Mar. 18 2002,17:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">at one time 13,000,000 cb-ers #.5 million hams world wide #hams , ratio of bad hams was greater, cb still gives day to day help more than hams, #hams if they help, may call for help, cb operators go help when needed, on the road even some truckers #will offer help #they aren`t all bad .I had cb radio in 1960 was often first on scene of accidents in my area #many have taken training in first aid and search and rescue volunter fire dept etc. # there are bad apples on both, many hams never were cbers and aren`t good enought to make one, listen to 80m 20m mostly, listen to 2 letter calls contesting on #28.00000 using voice in US when told they say they aren`t #out of band as a novice in portland Darell #of Hood View club taught us stay from band edge 1.5 kc min. I travel from west coast to east on I-90 #down to south Georgia scross south to Bakersfield #up I-5 #to British Columbia. # It is hard to get a repeater with no tones #a lot of places and when ARRL repeater guide lists a lot of mountain top sites what town is that ? I would not travel with out cb radio #society class cb (2m) just don`t cut it other bands of little use for help . I was in Florida after Andrew emergency ham? some hand helds if you were lucky , all towers were down #a lot was learned there .I have heard several hams complain their pic not in paper for helping , most cbers just like to feel good for helping ,want to know about attitude ?? try explaining good points in both #systems . It took 25 years to pass cw, #I still use cb I must be a bad ham ? #73 to all # see you on I-link # Larry[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Larry, if someone is using 28.0000 on voice, I don't care what the call is, it is most likely a bootlegger. Period. Your point on assistance is well taken; again, the numbers tell the story - you've got a lot more CBers than hams, and the likelyhood of nearby help from a CBer is greater than an amateur - unless you figure in the repeaters. Many have autopatches. Those tones are not to lock people out, they are there to avoid mutual interference. I've never had a problem talking to people I had not talked to before on any of the 440 repeaters I use - and I can reach 10 of them with my handheld sitting in my living room - some 30 miles away! From a friend's apartment building, on the 21st floor, I've hit repeaters over 100 miles away - and used 'em to boot. I don't understand about the only antennas surviving being on handhelds - a few years back we had a huge ice storm (didn't quite reach as far West as Rochester, NY) which destroyed power and telephone lines for hundreds of miles around. I have relatives in Watertown who were without power for two weeks. The police repeater tower was down and an amateur repeater pressed into service for the police department. Again, it isn't that the amateur (or CB, for that matter) towers are 'better', it is simply numbers. For that one police tower, there were a number of repeater towers (some repeaters are located on commercial towers). BTW, they were putting out the call for amateur mobile operators with HF capability. VHU/UHF don't help a lot if you are a hundred miles or more from ac power. CB won't help much in that situation either. As to how close you can approach the band edge, you must realize that modern equipment is a lot different from the stuff in the 60s. One couldn't trust those analog dials too closely. Modern rigs may come with a vcxo with a 1 ppm stability. Once accurately calibrated, you could operate within 30 Hz of the band edge on 10 meters - assuming you are running on a sideband going away from the given edge. Back to the 2 meter problems you mentioned - I have never seen folks ignored (at least on the 440 machines I use - which includes the megaplex repeater (N2HJD) which links 10 meters, 6 meters, 2 meters, 220 MHz, and 440 MHz. Hopefully, yours is an unusual situation. I'd like to think that some of the more forward-thinking amateurs and CBers could work hand in hand, with the hams providing the distance and the CBers providing the local coverage.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

NS1O

03-19-2002, 03:46 AM

I agree with you as far as defending the hobby if we don't then we'll lose it. This past fall a myself and a friend of mine where working 10 Ghz. a person thought that we where terrarrest and called the police because of our antennas.
Go figure? So all you can do is to try to teach people what is real and what is not as most people have no clue.
Hopefully you can get them on your radio and they'll pick up the hobby.

73
Al
NS1O

w6bbl

03-19-2002, 03:47 AM

Hmmmmmm. . . interesting note.
I remember WAY back when I first got into CB (late '60's). Everyone who saw my antenna on my car asked, "Are you a ham?"
I replied "No, just a CB'er."

Starting in the mid-'70's, after I got my Ham license, whenever someone saw my car with its forest of VHF/UHF antennas, they would ask if I was a CB'er!!! It's been that way ever since!
Now, of course, I proudly reply that No, I'm an amateur radio operator!
73,
Bob

03-19-2002, 03:52 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif In-so-far-as most people get their information on radio opperation form their neighborhood CBer's TVI ( while cooking http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) we shouldn't be suprised! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73 de Craig.....KCØGOA

n8avx

03-19-2002, 04:24 AM

When I was a kid, a friend of mine and I taped a bunch of D cells together to power our CB rigs on our bikes. He had a 102" whip on his, and I had a base loaded mobile ant. on mine. Lotsa fun, and had a few people express interest in what we were up to...

Maybe it is time I mounted my 2m rig on the bike... If you're not out there using it, no one knows what your up to... Politicos know that exposure is life, same for our hobby. Field Day PR isn't enough, emergency services isn't enough. People have short attention spans, we need to be out there more often.

Even if they think we are CB'ers, a simple 5 second sound bite "No ma'am, actually we are amateur radio operators. Have you ever heard of amateur radio?" is good. What that just did is give them a fact (we are amateur radio ops), and invite a question or comment (have you ever heard of...) based on them. We have just possibly started a conversation. Of course, if their neighbor IS a radio op (Ham/CB) and has an RFI problem, you may get an earful!

Modify to suit, of course, but never end the comment without inviting a reply. Nothing stops a conversation faster than a flat declarative statement. Keep it short, polite, and to the point. Don't tell them they are wrong, let them know there are more facts. It works for me...

Now, where did I put that pile of D cells...

Jim N8AVX

N0SCD

03-19-2002, 06:04 AM

JimAA2QA Said:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Back to the 2 meter problems you mentioned - I have never seen folks ignored [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I have. I'm sure, at least I hope, that it's just the town I live in but... I've had people ask me if the repeater in town is still up because they've come through and tried to call me or to get assistance and no one answers. Even if a QSO is going on at the time. If your call isn't recognized by the locals, they won't talk to you.

I remember last year during a Relay for Life event at the local high school, there was a storm system moving in. Someone started running around saying there was a tornado warning. I tried to raise someone on the local repeater to find out more info but NOBODY answered. I eventually found out by calling home via cellphone and asking someone to look at an internet radar site that it wasn't a tornado warning, but a tornado watch. Which goes to show how much people listen as many times as the TV weather rexplains the difference between a watch and a warning every time a storm is forecast. :\

Yes, some Amateur Operators ARE snobs, but so are some CB'ers, Computer Ops, cops, Doctors, Nurses, etc etc etc etc... No matter what field you're talking about, there are good and bad everywhere.

BTW, I'm a no-code tech and am reluctant to go any farther because of the things I've heard about operators on HF. If HAM Radio is going to grow and progress, older HAMS NEED to help newer operators and make them WANT to go farther. Not get snobby about code and who had their license first.

03-19-2002, 06:18 AM

I am sorry to say that because of the "NEW"(don't get me wrong I have only had my ham ticket for two years), and those NOT so new licence holders that do not or will not take the time to understand the many sides of the hobby we are creating a enviroment that can and will tear that hobby apart. Now please read that whole posting before you pop a top here..I at one time was a "CB'er". I can remember a time that I returned from a high school field trip to find my mother waiting at the school to take me home in a major winter storm because my "station" was the only one that was " In the right place" to talk to the stranded people at two oil sands plants and pass information and " Hi honey I fine, don't worry I'll be home when the roads are clear" messages. Yes at that time in the Mid 80's CB was not a bad place to be.. that day I stopped many wives from needless worry and passed information to the local radio station. In that storm I lost an 1/4 wave base ant. and spent many hours on both the radio and the phone, my parents gave me complete control of the "ONE" phone line in the house( not a small thing for the mid 80's), no one could call out or take calls with out my say so. Now when people respond with " Oh your're like a CB'er" we should take the time to check to see if they mean the guy that spent hours passing traffic and climbing to the top of the car port in minus 20 to break ice and snow off the antenna or the guy I found when I turned the radio back on 10 to 12 years later...I travel as part of my job as a driver. I have put my call "VE3NLP/W? MOBILE" out on a more then a few American 2m and 70cm repeaters, and most times there is never a problem. In a few case I have been told if I want to talk on HAM radio I should get a real licence and not try to "FAKE IT" with a made up callsign. Those these "LIDS" can be easily passed off as "NEW" hams, some(Though I will say there has only been one that did not want or could not know my call was real) are long time holders of NO-code licences. The real problem comes from that fact the some hams think that their party is the only one in town. They may be DX'ers or EME guys or VHF/UHF experts. The thing we have to remeber is that when we try to explain our hobby to the general public, is that there are three things we '***MUST***" do. One (1) make the message simple. They can't pay attention for more then 1 to 2 minutes without pictures on complex matters. Two (2) make the message easy. They are not willing to think behind the next bowel movement. Three (3) DO NOT talk about anything that can can their day to day lifes. I DO NOT CARE IF A TWISTER HAS DESTROYED THEIR HOME EVERY YEAR FOR THE LAST FIFTY(50) YEARS. They don't understand what you are talking about.. Do I sound like I have a low option on the general public? That's because I had to work with them for eighteen oout of the eighteen years I have been out of school, and working for a living. They as the one Gentleman said know how to cook a meal and that's the limit of their higher brain functions.

ranger320v

03-19-2002, 07:58 AM

Ok, I will respond to this post I am new to ham radio am still waiting on my call numbers. I took the test and passed just not entered into system yet . It seems to me that it is just a radio and a form of communication why get upset being called a ham or a CBer. It is just a hobby and not the end of the world, relax talk on your radio and live life, it is too short to complain about what someone says about your hobby. I am a CBer and a ham and dont really think much of it it is just a way to chat with others. #

Ranger320v

N9TTX

03-19-2002, 10:39 AM

I think our newest member (Who is waiting for the all important "ticket) is more in tune than a lot of the "older" crowd. I am proud to be a CB'er AND a Ham. I got into the radio hobby initially by wishing I had my CB call letters way back when. I never did get them (and secretly wish they could be issued still), but I picked up my 23 channel AM Sparkomatic rig from a friend almost 20 years ago and it is still going strong. I later picked up a sideband rig and learned to talk "skip". If you ask me I personally think the "Illegal contacts of over 150 miles" is rediculous. I have talked around the world on a legal CB rig. This does and did gave me a taste of working distant stations. I subsequently looked into ham radio, and have dabbled into learning radio/electronics repair as I don't care for labor costs. My Elmer (though I didn't know it at the time) told me about the test session 5 days hence, and I studied quick and got my call. I have since upgraded to General, and am studying for my Extra. I love working, building, talking on, and collecting radio equipment. I decorate my house with the BIG Tube "boatanchors" that CB had back when. I elmer who I can and have helped some get their tickets. I have had bad experiences on local repeaters and on 11 meters. there are bad apples everywhere. As for being different, I think not. It is all in the personal outlook of why you joined the hobby. I will defend CB'ers and chastise Hams or vice versa as situations come up. We are all the same, and we need new members, so maybe go out and recruit those CB'ers...they may be as ignorant of ham radio as your next door neighbor who can barely cook. 73's and meet ya on 10 meters and wherever. Ham call: N9TTX, and CB call: AE 976 Wisconsin (38 LSB). Proud of both and QSL for both.

Dave Aho N9TTX

N3HGB

03-19-2002, 12:21 PM

Hams ARE snobs, or at least some of them are. Just read this board for awhile.
How many post things like no code=no ham.
How many post negative comments about Ilink/IRLP because "real DX" is on HF.
Ever heard the expression "welfare General/Extra"?
Lucky for us there are enough fine operators on the bands to make up for it.
73

KC8PMX

03-19-2002, 01:51 PM

Although the link of Amateur Radio and CB can be easily made by the lack of knowledge by the general public can be easily understood, due fact we both use transcievers, I see another stereotype I am TIRED of defending.

The perception I am CONSTANTLY trying to defeat is the fact that alot of people I have encountered see's what they believe the average ham to be: the next cast of the Revenge of the Nerds movie series. Although we have people with a variety of backgrounds, the perception of over-intelligent, overly prudish, nerdish qualities also may be a turnoff. I am not knocking pursuing intelligence by any means, just saying we should wear it on our shoulders so loudly. We need to show better that we come from all walks of life.

03-19-2002, 03:18 PM

I have to jump in here one more time. If being a ham is so much better than being a “CB’er then why don’t I see more talk and effort being put into encouraging “CB’er to become hams? Could it be that hams want to remain the privileged few?

If a few of the local hams had taken the time to work with our scout group when I was a kid I would have become a ham 50 years ago. The best I could do at the time was go to the library and read the ARRL handbook and try to figure it out on my own.

I am a ham now because just by some very odd circumstances I happened to ask a stranger if he was a ham and mentioned that I had always wished I had become one. He gave me enough encouragement to do so in that one conversation.

As for those that turn up their noses at “no-coders”, how many of them are helping people learn code? I’d love to have some help. I know this doesn’t apply to everyone because as I have monitored the 2 meter repeaters in my area I’ve heard people offering new hams help with code.

What are you “proud to be a ham” hams going to do if you ever run out off people to look down upon? I’ve even seen a club web site in my area that stated that membership was by invitation only.

Why cann’t we just all learn to get alone and help each other out?

03-19-2002, 03:41 PM

CB'ers are not Hams. The CB'ers in the area where I live run illegal amps, are not really interested in two way communications, just one way transmissions, interfere with the local TV, Cable, and Telephone service. Many have expanded their interests to include scanning, ease dropping and tape recording telephone calls.

Nothing happened until they started interfering with the local cable TV. Then the FCC came out and took some equipment.

They try to convince the local authorities that they have no jurisdiction, as radio is controlled by the federal govenment. CBer's have become such a problem on a national level that the federal laws have been changed and local communities can now pass ordinances to address these issues.

For the newer hams out there, the no code tech license was an attempt to tap the vast CB community and bring them into Ham Radio. There was some mixed success with this approach, but some of the bad manners you experience on 2 meters is because of this.

I believe that many of the negative feelings the general public has about ham radio are because of this confusion between hams and CB'ers. People running illegal 500 watt amplifiers have a tendency to interfere with a lot of devices.

If you have a ham license, and you operate CB equipment in an illegal manner, your ham license can be taken away from you, and you can be subject to fines.

If you modify your tranceiver to tranmit on eleven meters, you can lose your ham license.

There are certainly good CB operators out there, and CB can be very useful when traveling, but they are not ham operators, and those who pursue the illegal aspects of the CB hobby have created a lot of animosity between the general public and the Ham Radio community. Certainly, at this point in the history of Ham Radio, there is no reason why anyone who wants a license can't obtain one.

AK6S

03-19-2002, 03:41 PM

I think we need to understand that we have people who don't understand us. We have people who don't understand and are unwilling to or can't! It happens everywhere in life!
"God grants, me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change The Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to know the difference".
I try to use this as a rule or guide. I think education is the best way but not everyone wants this education. As a Ham I try to let everyone know how great it is as long as they will listen! I think the little kids are our best avenue for they don't have all these "bad habits" and even if they don't become a CBer and/or Ham at least they have an understanding. Every little bit helps. "You can get more bears with honey"! It is fun to see the light go off in someones eyes when they hear that first contact. We have a job to do with mankind in general to be helpful and kind and let the rest go so it won't hurt or get under your skin if possible! I know that it is a whole lot easier said than done but this is how I try to make a difference and Yes we do make a difference. Remember the good contacts and try to make the difference in the over all picture. And yes I was a CBer first but it wasn't enought and it brough me to a wonderful Elmer Bob KE6AT and into Ham Radio which I will alway remember him (silent key). It seem to be harder these days to put your best foot forward and the language is getting worse and I am only one person but I make a difference. A very small difference but a differece just the same. It is all up to us to be a shinning star. The more the better! You never know what you say to someone that will turn that light bulb on! Sorry I got a little carried away but thats how great this hobby is! I will get off the soap box now. 73 to all
Sherry AK6S

[U]

ag4hy

03-19-2002, 05:10 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif gentlemen?
it happens a whole lot of times, i've gotten the samething here at my home town. have been told that "hammers" were a""s and stuffed shirts, and richmans cb. i live outside of adrian ga, and there isn't a lot of ham radio going on, not that i can hear. the repeater that is still up in vidalia ga has the most deafining silence you have heard in a while.
about the "snobbery" yes it's proved every day right here and on eHam, what with all the slurrs,and insinuations, and name calling, in the code/no-code crap that goes on, and fellows non-hams read this"crap" and it does not serve any purpose than to alianate the CBers from our hobby and also serves to alianate the ones who are trying to learn the code. and really (please, give this some serious thought) just how is anybodies, lack of understanding or care about a certain mode, going to affect your operation? or is a person's desire to not be a ham, and use citizens band, going to affect the love you have for "your" hobby. if it is then you my friend are fickle.
you don't need to blast someone's ears out just because they don't understand. just speak softly and have,polite information available.
as for as what keeps cropping up on here, an "elmer". I wouldn't know one if i fell over one. i had to do it all myself. there was no one to help even, when i asked for help. just me and the books and tapes and morse tutor..i'm not defending or persecuting any one. just trying to show you how i believe,and get you to think about it. lets you and I "sweep around our own door, before we start sweeping around someone else's...???
73 and have a good week http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
willie ah4hy

W1KLM

03-19-2002, 07:09 PM

It strikes me odd that, of the two words your family member used to describe amateur radio, (ie., "snobby" and "CB'r"), you take offense of the latter. From my vantage, one would think that being considered a snob would be far worse. In short, to answer your question regarding stereotypes; people like you are the reason we carry that tag. You're own response to the comments from your family member are the reason we're looked upon so. I will spare you the discussion on one stereotype fueling the other. I think the inflamation of the Ham vs. CB issue has been beaten to death, with no good result. My $0.02 de W1KLM

ab2hr

03-19-2002, 08:25 PM

This whole thread started because a Ham operator got offended because he was called a "snobby CBer."

Let's think about this folks... WHY did the operator get offended? Was it because he considers CB operators to be inferior people in some way to his exhaulted position as an Amateur Radio Operator? Was it because he felt that the effort, dedication and work involved in obtaining his Amateur Radio Operator's license was not held in the awe, reverance and respect as befits a person of his stature?

Or let's think about THIS... Was it a knee-jerk reaction to PREJUDICE and DISCRIMINATION and a PREDETERMINED image of a STEREOTYPICAL CB operator? Rather than "convince" the relative that Amateur Radio operators are "better" than CB operators, why not EDUCATE the relative of the fact that while the Citizen's Band SERVICE is different from the Amateur Radio SERVICE, both are bound by certain laws and regulations and hence while one SERVICE may require a license, the other is accessible to non-licensed users. Why not also EDUCATE the relative that while there are a large number of CB operators out there who operate outside the law, that there ARE also a VERY large number of CB operators out there who recognize the law and endeavor to operate entirely within those laws. Why not EDUCATE the relative that not all CBers are truckers, and by the same token, not all truckers abuse the CB (in fact, many are FB Ham operators!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif... Why not EDUCATE the relative that not all CBers are pirates and "freebanders" and also note that not all Hams operate according to the letter and/or spirit of the regs either? Why not EDUCATE the relative that the reason for the current state of the CB service was and is not necessarily the fault of the majority of the operators, but due to the fact that the FCC essentially abandoned the CB service (as far as enforcement is concerned) in the late 1970's? Believe me, if it weren't for the FCC, our own ham bands would probably be in the same condition!

Rather than CONVINCE your relative that you are somehow superior to the "CB scum", why not EDUCATE that relative that both radio services exist to fulfill a purpose? As a CBer (and a LEGAL one) for over 25 years and a Ham for 5, I can say I've seen the best and the worst of both services. Part of the image problem of Amateur Radio is our hurry to villainize CB operators (remember the "snobby" adjective?), which often comes at the expense of our own approachability. Instead of setting ourselves apart from CB, we should be accepting it and trying to improve operating practices on the "criminal band." I'm not saying we should all, as hams, go out and buy 11 meter equipment, but when someone approaches us asking for advice (FRS or CB, CB or Ham?) why not provide a well thought out explanation and describe ACCURATELY the merits and deficits of each? CB is great if you want short range communications in excess of what FRS offers, if you don't want to hassle with a license, and are willing to put up with a less "polite" operating atmosphere... It's low-cost, low-power, and low-maintenance. Across town communications are easily and cheaply taken care of with CB... By the same token, if you just want to keep in touch with the other half and the rugrats while you're all shopping in the mall, FRS works well, and provides some degree of privacy. Interested in making contact with people in other countries? Well, definitely Amateur Radio...

Besides.... as has already been noted, CB commucations are often a gateway to the Amateur Radio Service. By encouraging more people to become better CB operators, we provide a basis for sound operating practices BEFORE those operators think about becoming Hams... Leading by example goes a long way...

Frankb

03-19-2002, 08:55 PM

[B][U]
As stated in another comment hams and CBer's are alike in many ways. There is not much difference except the limitations and the privilages that we are given. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I am also a CB operator and know that there good radio operators and bad operators. As qouted by many "a group is only as good as there weakest link and that's how we get these bad remarks.

Frank A. Bosak
KC8PUZ

W7WV

03-19-2002, 09:01 PM

Who said you had to have a radio to be a "snob"http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

You "are" whoever and whatever you are. Represent yourself and the hobby in a proper light and they both look good.

Since my return to the hobby, if I am working outside and someone asks about my antennas while walking by, (yes, I will talk to strangers on the street, will you?) I invite them in and get on the HF airspace and do a little demo.

I let them listen and participate if they are willing. I had one get interested enough that he is now a licensed Technician working on that General, and he's 74.

It seems to me that anything you are involved in is only as good as the people that are involved in it with you.

73's Ken W7WV

KC0lBk

03-19-2002, 10:52 PM

I know just what you meen. I'm in the 8th grade and you would think I would get the most greif from the kids but id don't. It's the adults in my life who ask that everepeating question "Why don't you just use the telephone?"
So of corse i'm off trying to explain to them that where "different" I tell them about public service, dxing, about feild day, and all the other aspects of Amature Radio that I love so much. Then they walk away wondering what horrible thing could make a kid so passionate about a hobby. Oh well I gess you just have to do it to understand.
73s Kc0lbk

KC2JCA

03-19-2002, 11:00 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0mpp @ Mar. 19 2002,08:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why cann’t we just all learn to get alone and help each other out?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

What would you like help with there, young fella? I don't have all the answers, but if you need help, and I can't answer your question, I'll help you find someone who can.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Jim - kc2jca

KC9AZL

03-20-2002, 12:25 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif MY FRIENDS THOUGHT THAT WHEN I MENTIONED HAM RADIO THEY THOUGHT IS WAS TALKING ABOUT CB. TELLING THEM ABOUT MORSE CODE THEY THOUGHT NO ONE NEW IT. THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS PRETTY DUMB WHEN IT COMES TO HAM RADIO.

FMCCARTER

03-20-2002, 03:55 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6GOF @ Mar. 17 2002,19:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"different breed of operators" ????

"You guys are just snobby CB'ers."

I am going to be ready to jump on the next person that calls us a 'Snobby CB'er'. #I'll set them straight in a hurry and I hope you will do the same.

Power to the HAM! #;)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Different breed than what. From Walkie-Talkie , to Civil Air Patrol Radio Operator with an HF , to Truck Driver with a CB , to Computer Engineer with an Amateur Radio......Yea , call me a snobby cb'er. Where ever you started , I know you have used the free band at least once. And if not , then radio was not always in your heart.
I have been playing with radios for 40 years and I am no better than anyone else. We used radios in scouts for good deeds. Radios in the civil serivce for good deeds. CB's in the trucks to aid motorists (good deeds). And now finally , ham radio - I GET TO PLAY. FIELD DAY , HAMFESTS , RACHET-JAWING DURING TRAFFIC ......oh yea , and doing good deeds.
73s,
KD5MID

w6th

03-20-2002, 05:09 AM

Really never had a problem being called anything but a Ham Radio Operator. #Possibly because most hams did not boast of being a ham. #It most certainly is a different breed today and as you sew, so you reap.

kt6k

03-20-2002, 12:20 PM

I guess I'm what you call an old-timer Eric, and I have seen both sides. Back in the "old" days, and still today, Amateur radio gives us a means to experiment and pursue academic interests as well as be snobby CB'ers.

Besides antenna and electrical construction projects, and before CB, many of us hams have been involved as a volunteers in communications for Civil Defense, message forwarding during wartime, emergency disaster communications, and community events.

Many CB'ers have volunteered to use their radios for neighborhood Watch type volunteer efforts and community events also. But I havent seen many CB'ers with that interest in experimentation and academic interest I referred to. Am I being snobby?

We were two different worlds. With the restructuring of Amateur licensing to grade school requirements to get the more advanced ticket, probably so the vendors of no-brainer store-bought equipment can sell more radios to the folks who just want to chit-chat or make noise, our two worlds are noticeable closer together.

How do we prove we are different? By doing a better job of course! Promote academic interest. Volunteer to use your superior-to-CB equipment. There are things we can do the CB can not.

Don't argue. Show them!

73s,

Fred
KT6K

K7RME

03-20-2002, 12:38 PM

Whoa, my friend - Get off that high horse just for a moment. # Before you go condemning CB'ers to the lower class of life, try this experiment: # Drive through a city you are not familiar with and call for help on a 2 meter repeater, then do the same thing on CB radio! # Guess which one will be there first? # Get my point? #
Also, you asked what can we do to prevent the public from perceiving us as CB'ers? # That is a no-brainer, my friend - quit acting like that! # Listen on 75 and 40 SSB for a while and I think you will understand my point! #To protect our image and our band widths, we need to act like adults (even if we are just kids in adult clothing). #
Wen
K7RME

kc0isu

03-20-2002, 02:36 PM

What can we do to counter any stereotypes? Get out there and get public! I have made one presentation on ham radio to the IEEE society in this area last year, and I am doing another in April. The message is that ham radio is not just a mythical hobby about old-timers tapping our Morse code on radios built in the '20s. I plan to demo some 20m PSK31 after the slide show. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif If you ARE an old-timer who DOES tap out Morse code on '20s radio equipment, no offense. The message is that ham radio was wider horizons, not necessarily shifted ones.

When somebody blows up and calls ham radio snobby, the answer isn't "no it's not." You just sound like a little kid. I don't know what the conversation sounded like, but the response should have been, "why do you think ham radio is snobby?" The puts you a path of figuring out where this guy is coming from, and sets you up for leaving him with the right message.

The answer is definitely not to use CB as your scapegoat. CB is CB and ham is ham. Stick with ham and leave CB out of the loop. Since I never touched a CB rig, I have nothing to throw evil and wicked about CB at 'em.

KG4ROT

03-20-2002, 02:50 PM

I am very new to amatuer radio and am extremely obsessed with the hobby. Most of my conversations at work and with people I know end up with some mention of amatuer radio at some level. It is very disheartening to me when I hear CB'ers gripe about HAMS bleeding into the 11 meter band when most CB'ers think that you must have 3000 watts to talk down the street. I started with a CB and an antenna 10 years ago and listened to mostly yelling and screaming. Now that I was fortunately enough to buy a scanner that would pull in 2 meters, I found the conversations to be polite, informative, and incrediblity funny. It did not take much for me to realize where I wanted to be. #

For the hams that I have and have not met ,who insist that I need cw, who help me build antennas, who correct me when I am wrong, and who allow me get up every morning hearing a kind word, I think you have no PR problem and that eventually more people will releaize this. The reason we are different is because we learn to be this way from those we respect and #admire. Have fun, be nice, keep building, and pass it on. Hats off to amateur radio.

KG4ROT

kj7vj

03-20-2002, 04:40 PM

I have been a ham for 8 years now and find there are snobs in ham radio as well as good down to earth folks. You kinda proved that by your response. I find arrogance #a lot in ham radio and that is just a fact. Some of the worst operators are on the hf bands just listen.2 Meters is not really different from cb, you have cliques and my crap don't stink owner and control ops. One of the most go by the book and only tech talk owners in our area got a card from an oo and he wined and moaned on the air for an hour like a little cry baby because he "god" got a card for not IDing for over 10 minutes. Arrogance is alive #and well in the ham community. When I was a technician the old timers said to be a real ham you have to upgrade and learn code, well I learned it on my own because when I asked them for help they coward out cause they had forgotten what I was suppose to learn. My wife and daughter are hams and we do use it when we have to and I have met some good people too. But as in life I find many hams who are just phony backstabbing people! It is funny, you can hear hams chatting away on 2 meters one moment and then someone will come on needing help or a phone call and no one answers, I will if I can get to a phone but many times have heard people get no response. Also have heard some of the biggest bitchers about proper ways to leave a space so others can get in if need be, break their own gripes about others huumm! Also find it interesting if you say "CB" some people take offense, it is "11 Meters". It is funny because many hams including some old farts use to be "CB" operators, but now they are hams and look down on the very same people they use to talk to on their "CB'S. Well that's it for now, but remember "SNOBS" you eat, drink, crap, and bleed the same as the rest of us!!!!
Mike KJ7VJ

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

w4paj

03-20-2002, 04:54 PM

The problem is simple- public awareness. Amateur radio is this country's best kept secret. And that will be our downfall with frequency allocations. The public has no clue how amateurs work behind the scenes in RACES, ARES, NTS, Skywarn, and other volunteer work. It's our own fault. Some amateurs treat this service as some secret society.
If the public was aware of our valuable contributions to THEIR communities, then perhaps these misunderstandings would be a thing of the past. Call your local newspapers, TV stations, and radio stations. It is up to us to get the word out. Nobody is going to do it for us.

K7PIG

03-20-2002, 04:56 PM

Hams vs. CB'ers, CB'ers vs. Hams, different or alike, alike or different.
I know of not one single ham radio operator with a valid license blatantly and deliberately getting on CB Radio jamming radio communications as the dam CB'ers and Trucker's do on the 10 meter amateur band.
You want but, no sweat to earn a thing, just give me. Yes, there is one heck of a difference.

KD7KOY

03-20-2002, 06:41 PM

K7RME has a good point. Lots of good CB'ers. Further 11 meters was at one time part of the ham bands.
# I hate to say this, but out of 100 contacts on the ham bands, perhaps 3 or 4 were good fun contacts. Most were 5/9's kind of stuff.
# Hams in my experience are not known for "personality" (although as I said, there are a few whom I have contacted that I enjoyed a good conversation.) thus perhaps one of the reasons why the hobby is perceived as it is by the public; lack of "communication" ( or more of lack of social skills) on a one to one basis with the public.
# What ever it is, ham radio in itself is a "solitary" hobby,(most operate in the shack alone, build the gear alone, buy equiptment alone etc.) and perhaps draws "loners" who has a hard time communicating on a one to one basis, face to face or in groups face to face. The only times they get together is at perhaps an occasional "hamfest" or repeater meeting.
# CB'ers on the other hand seem to be more a "group" thing, thus the reason you hear them all the time. They even meet in parking lots for meeting at the local Dairy Queen. May not be what would be "professional" but at least they are social types.
# Some 2 meter/440 freqs and repeaters are wastelands. The HF side of hams bands are mostly 5/9's, 73's, DE Wxxxx..etc. There are also a perception among many new hams, call it "passive intimidation" if you will, that using the repeater for anything except "emergency" or "official traffic" (whatever that is..) is wrong, so alot of these guys never speak or seek out QSO's with others just for fun. This is wrong IMHO.
# #One thing that disturbed me was hearing hams say they have "friends" on the radio, people they have never met face to face. I'm sure these people are very nice people. But there is more to social contact than "hearing" or "typing" a message. Many I am sure have heard of the "internet syndrome", people who have made a "life" from contacts in chatrooms etc. Although this is fun, it is not "social".
People need contact with others face to face.
# #I'm not getting into a "CB vs ham" debate. But it does seem that we need to start getting together more, talking more and having fun more. If there is anything we can learn from CB is that it drew alot more people because of the "perception" that it was for fun.
# #Maybe we should all loosen up and as one post said, not to take ourselves too seriously and have fun.
# #Just a thought.

G4NSJ

03-20-2002, 06:43 PM

CB here in the UK seems to have died a death. We now have the CEPT channels (EU channels) and 80 channel CB rigs are for sale, but no one uses them. As for being called a CBer, I remember driving along listening to the guy in front chatting on two metres. He said, "There's a CBer right behind me, I can see his aerial." I grabbed the mic and put him right. If a neighbour looks up at my ten metre vertical and calls me a CBer, I just smile and nod. I used to try to explain the difference between CB and HAM radio but I gave up. Is that wrong?
73s G4NSJ Ray.

KB9VSB

03-20-2002, 10:30 PM

This scenario could be applied to many hobbies.No matter what you do there will always be someone who feels the need to put you in your proper place.When my hobby was Shorin Ryu With out even bringing up the subject people would bring up the "any good street fighter could beat a black belt" issue which put every martial artist into one group that has never spent any time in the real world. Every radio I own has at one time or other been called a C.B. (one of them actually is) .If some one doesen't understand you or your point of view get over it because the more you force your point of view the less interested they become.I have even given up trying to explain to our local dispatcher how I am getting my information from my wife about an accident or something in the road when i call them, the are dumbfounded when you try to tell them you are talking to the third party on anything other than a cell phone. And then they call us wanna-be cops. this debate could go on for ever,or, you could just do your thing and focus on what you are doing and remember the old saying "sticks and stones May break my bones but calling me a C.B.er will never hurt me!" sounds childish but it works for me. 73's

ag4hy

03-20-2002, 11:01 PM

only trouble with trying to explain anything is "They only hear what they want to hear, not what you said".
one can explain, till the cows come home, and they still don't have an inkling as to what one was trying to explain. selective hearing? dunno. had it happen to me several times, explain, explain, and they still looked at me with the, "HUH?" look. It is exasperating, to say the very least http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
73 have a good day http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
willie ag4hy

VE6BUD

03-20-2002, 11:54 PM

You know, something really interesting happened to me in the last 10 years. The story goes something like this:

I first fell in love with the radio when I turned 12 years old. My father had purchased a camper van with a 40 channel AM CB in it and while we were on a trip somewhere I couldn't wait to turn it on and listen to channel 19. I'd plug in my headphones so I wouldn't bother my father.

About 2 years later, I asked my father if I could "have" the CB. He took it out of the van with a screwdriver and a hacksaw. (A dual whip configuration doesn't work all that well without the other whip and no groundplane! However neither he or myself knew any better.) So here I was chatting it up with the locals. No formal radio code to be followed at all. We chatted as if it was a telephone. There were no roger beep mics or anyone using crazy amounts of echo.

I never worked "skip" (I didn't even know what it was until I read up on it.) and actually found it to be an annoyance when the bands got clogged full of truckers and the like all yelling over each other. I couldn't wait until the nighttime when the bands quieted down so I could chat with the locals in the city. (Hey, how's that!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

One day I heard "Quacking" on channel 34 and wondered what on Earth it was. So I started asking around and nobody knew. Eventually, a CB'er told me all about how Single Sideband worked and demonstrated it to me.

Skip forward another year when I was 15 and saw someone with a big 2-element Quad in the backyard. When I asked about it, I was told it was a "Pidgeon Catcher". Then I asked this guy (Who eventually became my elmer) if he was into CB radio at all. With a bit of a laugh, I was told that he was a Ham.

Fast forward another year and I got my Basic license when I turned 16. I noticed that the ham community #was a bit different from the CB community. Sometimes a little more social in some areas. There were flea markets, auctions, social events, volunteer events, etc... a LOT more than whatever I experienced with CB.

However, on the repeaters I obtained a feeling from a lot of hams that CB was undisciplined. It was anarchy filled with poor users who didn't care about following rules and regulations. (Even though none of my friends on CB that I knew had a linear amp or maliciously jammed the channel.) I was told that because I had trained for my license, I had to follow an operating code and thereby I would be a superior operator. I was told that if I broke the rules, I could be fined. Or I could lose my license. Fear controls!

Anyway, fast forward another 3 years. I decided that due to my interest in Ham radio, I would take a Broadcast Engineering course at the local technical college. Not only would I be able to work with Television and Radio transmitters, but I'd REALLY understand how things worked from a professional standpoint.

And you know, I learned something. All of those professionals who work at the TV & Radio Transmitter sites look down upon Ham radio operators in the same way that Ham radio operators look down upon CB'ers. They view the Ham as being "Unprofessional", like a bunch of tinkerers who don't quite know what they are doing some of the time.

That might not necessarily be the truth. There are some hams I've met who can homebrew like nobodies business. However, these professionals are expected to be able to "homebrew" and if they can't, they are not doing their job. See what I'm getting at?

It's not a matter of operating procedure anymore with these people. It's a matter of knowledge. The people in that industry consider themselves very educated. I mean, when was the last time you worked on a 50 Kilowatt Transmitter? Or, worked on in an Antenna Tuner shack with capacitors that talked and inductor coils with wire as thick as your arm?

I learned something else after another two years. Regardless of ANY level of education one might have, Broadcast Engineer, Ham or CB'er (Isn't that what really differentiates us?), if you are an a$$h**e, knowledge is NOT going to make you a better person. If you violate operating policies, you are operating not as a ham, but now as a CB'er.

You guys think that the "Old-Timer" hardcore CW'ers like to think of themselves as "Elitist" or an old boys club? Well, you try getting your foot in the door to work for a TV or Radio facility! It's really an old-boys network there. Those pepole who work at the transmitter sites own that job and will have it until they die... and anyone who is a "Newbie" is looked down upon until they can build a complete facility up from scratch. #

It took me nearly 10 years to learn that because I did it all. I became so disgusted with the elitism that I decided to get back into a profession where you HAVE to be social. I got into the computer industry. I do computer desktop technical support and I absolutely love it.

In this profession, there is elitism but only because there are people who just do not want to learn. These people want to use their computer without understanding what they are doing. These are most likely the same kind of people who have "12http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0" blinking on their VCR and wonder why circuit breakers blow when they use a hairdryer and a microwave on the same circuit. But, you know, I put up with them because without them, I wouldn't have a job.

Sometimes you have to wonder how much more educated your typical CB'er is to one of the people I've mentioned above. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif As long as someone is willing to learn and understand, that makes me happy.

To answer the thread above, the BIG difference between the Ham Radio Operator and the "Typical" individual is that we are willing to learn. As long as we are willing to learn how things work, that's what matters. Sometimes even the CB'ers can be "Typical" individuals. They want to talk but they don't want to put in the effort to learn anything beyond that.

If a CB'er wants to learn how to become a Ham, I will encourage them. If all they want to do is yell on their roger beep echo mic, I'll let them but it's their loss! If they want to run a Henry 8K on 11 meters, I'll gladly demonstrate to them what happens when a transmitter end up transmitting into an infinite SWR! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Anyway, thanks for the thread.

N3WVB

03-21-2002, 04:08 AM

Honestly I am surprised the person you talked to
was able to even think of CB !!!!! Most people
seem shocked that anyone would use any form of radio in this day of cell phones and the world wide web. The biggest response I get when mentioning Ham Radio is "Do people even do that anymore??"
Even in my own household I have ,at best, tolerance for a hobby that has cost several thousand dollars. One which has caused the erection of multiple towers , beams, dipoles and verticals. Stimulating any interest in satellite communications or 50mhz and up SSB with HF
diehards let alone outsiders is almost impossible. One
HF enthusiast asked how many elements on that array
did it take to work Minnesotta on 2m SSB then laughed as he said why bother when you work there easily on 80m with a dipole. So at times we are our own worst enemies. Keep up the enthusiasm for the hobby but be careful before degrading our primary resource of radio enthusiasts that just need a good Elmer's hand up!!!!
73
From EN90 oh in HFville thats Metro Pittsburgh (lol)
N3WVB

w0raa

03-21-2002, 11:07 PM

I don't blame you for being upset. But, have you listened closely on the ham bands lately? The language is terrible. Four letter words are commonly used, some hams are just plain nasty. I was listening to a group of guys who were trying to work Ducie Island (VP6DI) on 20 meters SSB. Well, the DX operator had gone to dinner, yet there were guys calling him on his transmit frequency when he had clearly stated that he was operating split and listening "up". He also said he was taking a break for some chow. Well, one guy says (and I quote), "That low life S** of a B**** needs to improve his operating skills and make arrangements to see that someone is on the air at all times." The response to him from others sounded just like a CB frequency would sound. I've turned the air blue a few times myself, but never on the air. We need to clean up our act and keep in mind that we are not the only ones within earshot of this kind of language. Sure there are snobs out there but for the most part, the hams are there to have fun but will give you the shirts off their backs when help is needed. You can't find a more dedicated bunch of men and women anywhere when the chips are down. But even when frequencies are in use handling emergencies, these low lifes with the fould mouths and no concerns for anyone except themselves are there. They live to make life miserable for everyone elso because they are miserable. Just ignore them and they will go away. At least we all hope so. Thanks for letting me speak my 2 cents worth.

73,

Dick, WB0DUL, Colorado Springs, CO

KD7PNH

03-21-2002, 11:30 PM

I was once showing a friend (who has been a trucker off and on) my ham radio equpiment. I was working on a two meter ground plane antenna. He asked my if Ham radio was just a souped up version of CB radio. I kindly explained that no, it was quite different. I have nothing against CB radio, I just like Amatuer radio so much more! I like the challenge of passing an exam to get my "ticket". It is just my personal opinion.

73,
KD7PNH

KO4PO

03-22-2002, 09:15 PM

I have been licenced since the early 1970's. The negative perception, of ham radio, may be well deserved. Most hams buy their equipment, plug it in and turn it on. The code requirements are not what they use to be either. If you dont believe that ham radio is similar to CB, tune across the 20 meter band. Everything seems to be the same except for the 10 code.

ke7mbl

03-23-2002, 06:48 PM

I have an idea where your friend came up with snobby
cb'ers probably hearing some lids on the air. That I found
on the air myself around here in Spokane. But I heard
some hams put down the cb'ers too so it is not all one
sided. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

KB4FOS

03-24-2002, 12:46 AM

I sure don't feel segregated or classed (stereotyped) by my antenna farm here in my own neighborhood. I have had RFI problems here with Mr. Heart across the street but we both came to a solution, if not a total cure, using diplomacy and courtesy to both of our benifits, trying to understand the problem. (It was eventually realized by both of us that his TV, rabbit-ear, "amplifier" was the perpetrator.) I never had to tell him the awful, Part 15 truth.

I was a CB'er once. KMR-7229 (issued in 1976). Back then, folks didn't much need a linear amplifier to "stomp" on another station and RFI was just as likely to be coming from the ham down the street (Pappy and his Collins amp) as from my Lafayette Comstat-23. Back then, the ham bands were also full of courteous and well-spoken ops, professionals in their own right. I guess the ham bands have changed just about as much as CB has in that time.

If you want to keep your neighbor's fears at bay, open your door to them and show them your shack. Seeing is believing. Explain radio to them without denegrating their lack of knowledge about it. "Plain talk" doesn't mean "talking down" to them. Be empathetic, willing to listen to their complaint and don't appear hurried to explain away their misconceptions. If a person gains your confidence, they will quickly side with you and learn...

JaxJoe
SpectrumArc (http://www.joe.firstcoastonline.com/index.htm)

ve1fz

03-24-2002, 04:46 PM

Way back in the 1970"s I seen cb radio and it all fell into place starting there.How to build antenna"s intro. into the spectrum off HF,getting fingers into broken cb and fixing it etc etc.So I see no reason for someone to hide behind there ticket and say CB"er are low life,some out there could dance around a HF radio and fix them ,and oh my god there not even Amateur"s...

n1vdo

03-25-2002, 03:09 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #I never had a problem with a fellow Ham yet. Good honest respectable people, for the most part. Lot of older and wiser are the Ham's then the CB crowed.
The only a people that don't Like Ham's are the CB'ers ....

PS. My only complaint is I wish the Cellphone was not invented yet.

Ron n1vdo

wa3fhm

03-25-2002, 10:32 PM

If you just want someone to understand that there is a difference between a ham and a CBer, just give them copies of QST and S9 (if it still exists).

There are many facets to this problem and it has a long history. #I have been a ham since 1966 and I have seen the CB evolution. #Two friends decided to go CB when I became a novice. #One of them had been a radio operator in the service, but still went the easy way. #This was back when hobby operating on CB was strictly illegal, and probably still is, technically.

I worked in a radio repair shop while the CB thing was booming and there was plenty of arrogance on the CB side. #There were two men who decided they were going to be hams, one way or another, so they started an organization called "Highway Assistance Modulators." #They even had business cards made up saying, "You have just met a ham." #On the card was a picture of a hind quarter with wheels and an antenna. #They went to ham fests and expected to be treated as equals. #This is like me expecting to be treated as an equal by truck drivers just because my little Suzuki has a manual transmission.

There were CBers who bought 2 meter rigs and were outraged when they were kicked off repeaters. #There were others who took the philosophy of the airwaves belonging to the people and the FCC being the trustee to an absurd extreme and sued the FCC for all of the amateur spectrum, generally stating, "We don't need your trusteeship any more, give it all to us now." And there were the CBers who went on to become free banders.

There was a bitterness when we didn't welcome them with open arms and they passed that bitterness on to whom ever would listen to them, which was any one who could walk into a Radio Shack with a non-maxed credit card and buy a CB set.

There seems to be something cool about not knowing what you're talking about. There seems to be something cool about talking about balums and co-wax and adjusting your SWRs by changing the cable length. #If you're a bull S---ter you're a folk hero. #If you really know what you're talking about, you are a social outcast. #This has become true with just about every discipline. #This has caused a very serious problem, one that must be corrected immediately.

The media has literally refused to give us any coverage. #There is the obligatory field day coverage, but that is as far as it goes. #When there is a natural disaster, the local TV stations send out a reporter and a photographer to the State EOC to get a story. #If the hams who form the backbone of the state communications are lucky enough to get their pictures taken, there is no mention at all of who they are, no mention of field day and how they are now putting their practice to work. #Everyone thinks they are state employees.

This attitude achieved an infuriating flagrance recently. #I was watching a TV show about Mount St. Helens, I know there has been a number of them, but this one I had never seen before. #This show had the gall to actually interview the volunteer radio amateurs. #I didn't even know there were hams there, their existence had been so skillfully blacked out. #But, they weren't called hams or radio amateurs, merely volunteer radio operators. #They had put their lives on the line, but up until that film, they had not even been mentioned.

We all know that when they were asked who they were by the people doing the research for the film, they didn't say, "Oh, we're nothing, we're just lil ole radio operators." Somewhere, between the hams and the final script, all mention of amateur radio was systematically removed.

There you have it. #Is it ignorance, or misology or some other form a malice? Or are we just too uncool to even be tolerated? #What ever it is, we have to fight it. #Push for recognition. #If your area has skywarn classes, get your local TV weatherman to cover it. #If you volunteer at a state EOC, put up a sign. #If you volunteer for a parade or something make sure it is obvious that you're a ham. #You'll get your share of rolled eyes but at least people will know we exist.