View Full Version : UHF & above ... ?
ai4ep
02-15-2005, 05:33 PM
Just looking through the new ARRL repeater directory, and I notice nationwide a lack of systems above 448.000 Mhz.
Every licensed amateur of any class has a license to use these frequencies, above 448.000 Mhz...yet apparently hardly any really USE it ( including myself ).
So, instead of squabbling consistently about " no code on hf " or other useless petty squabbles, why dont we ALL use the higher frequencies above 448.000 Mhz. ?
Because it we dont, some one in a business - type situation might just take a liking to them ( hint, hint ) !!
KC7YRA
02-15-2005, 05:54 PM
Not a real big hint. We all know about that prospect anyway. The reason I don't use them is they don't serve my purpose. There is no infastructure built in this area (Wyoming) for any of it and it usually doesnt travel as well as 2 meters over this terrain. Why would I use an inferior frequency when all of my needs are being met by another? To keep other interests from getting it? Quite honestly I would rather leave those bands for the people who are actually interested in them (But by the looks of it not many are)
Brad
Equipment is more expensive, not only the radio, but the cable, connectors, components to work at those frequencies, etc. etc.
For that, you get less range and dependabilty, fewer users ( self fullfilling situation ) more critical adjustments to the equipment to get it to work properly, etc.
I go along with Brad, in that the people who might actually have a use for them should be the ones to get it. A ham might not be able to afford a UHF station, but it would not be a big issue for a commercial user.
Just my humble opinion. ( which may not be popular, I realize ! )
kg4kww
02-15-2005, 09:47 PM
The reason most ham don't use the VHF/UHF spectrum is because, it requires them to know how to assemble a beam, set the swr's, get a rotator and either a tower or put up a sturdy enough mast on their chimney to support a mast and rotator. Some hams don't know how to set swr's and work propagation. It's easier for them to hang a wire between two trees and let the antenna tuner in the rig tune the radio. Plus if they have to use VHF/UHthe have to work for their contacts. Where as, with HF you turn it on and it's like CB land, dozens of people trying to talk to each other.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Oh yes, this is just my opinion, which has been derived from talking to hams at the radio club, and does not refelect upon any of the hams here.
With UHF/VHF it is a good idea to use 'N' connectors indtead of PL259's as they are more water proof and have less signal loss.
KWW, that sounds like "trollin' " to me ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
K9STH
02-15-2005, 09:58 PM
KWW:
What belongs to the SWR ("swr's")? The term SWR is normally singular ("SWR" or "swr", preferably the former) and I can't think of anything that your SWR would own!
Making SWR plural is definitely a Class "D" Citizen's Radio Service "trait" and making it possessive doesn't make any sense at all.
Glen, K9STH
Come on guys cut the guy some slack. He apparently knows nothing about HF. Since we use beams and towers on HF also. Most of us even know how to set VSWR since it is just as important on the lower frequencies. I don't think I have ever used a wore antenna. Is this something new? I personally use a doublet dipole and have also used dipoles on VHF and UHF.
I don't know what ham band he was listening to, but I have never heard it sound like a CB group. If this is what the operators in the VHF/UHF spectrum act like I will stick to HF. The good thing is I know it is only a small minority of Techs that think like this.
Upgrade and get the thrill of working another country using five watts or less. I will get off my soapbox now.
KC0KBH
02-15-2005, 10:40 PM
A poster said equipment is expensive. UHF commercial rigs are so cheap, and sometimes free. Just need to reprogram it, which is not hard, especially if you know the guy who owns the local Motorola place, and he is a ham.
Quote[/b] (KC0KBH @ Feb. 15 2005,10:40)]A poster said equipment is expensive. #
Ham radio is like any hobby. You can spend as little or as much as you want. You can build a good HF rig pretty cheap and there are a lot of stuff for sale or trade.
Problem I have always had with VHF/UHF is you're limited to how much you can do with it. Especially using commercial equipment that is reprogrammed.
Check out field day in your area. It is a great time to try out HF and meeting some of the the local hams. Most are not to busy to help out someone really interested.
KC0KBH
02-15-2005, 10:58 PM
Well, I like the look of the commercial stuff too. I have an old Midland UHF mobile, a Standard HX-240 UHF HT I got free, and if everything goes right, I will have a Motorola GP-350 UHF HT.
WB2WIK
02-15-2005, 11:01 PM
The Repeater Directory is a very poor place to find out what spectrum is being used, or not.
It only lists, um, "repeaters."
There is a lot of activity on 33cm, 23cm, 13cm and above -- it's all "weak signal" work, using SSB-CW-digital modes, and not FM or repeaters. Thus, this activity will not be listed in any Repeater Directory. If you open QST and read the "World Above 50 MHz" column, you'll note that most of the reading involves reporting station activities, breakthroughs and milestones on the bands way above 448 MHz. There's amateur activity on 10 GHz and 24 GHz all over the world, including a lot in the U.S.
The cost-per-QSO-per-mile quotient isn't very good for FM-repeater operations above 448 MHz, and that's why it never caught on well. The gear's expensive, and always will be. Connectors, transmission lines and antennas are far more critical -- meaning fewer neophytes would be able to use or install them correctly, compared with the common VHF-UHF bands. And terrain becomes a big problem for repeater coverage. A repeater for 23cm works great when it's on a mountaintop surrounded by flatlands, but there aren't many places like that.
WB2WIK/6
Thanks for stating it so clearly ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
K9TOD
02-15-2005, 11:25 PM
Lack of systems???
Definitely no shortage of systems in my neck of the woods, but a shortage of users. But I guess it all depends on where you are.
K5USS
02-16-2005, 12:59 AM
Beams and towers??? #Beams I have, tower(s) I do not. #ALL of my antennas are in my attic, and each one was made by me. #Antennas for VHF/UHF are SIMPLE to construct so that cannot be used as an excuse. #Also, the SWR is easily set if one takes the time to do it.
Want to find a lot of people on VHF/UHF and on up into the microwave range? #Look up a weak signal club. #Here in the NTX area we have the North Texas Microwave Society (http://www.ntms.org/). #
LOTS of people from all over TX and surrounding states are members. #Look into it and you will realize that there are a lot more on the weak signal bands than most believe.
Charlie
K5USS EM12px
KC0OFZ
02-16-2005, 02:04 AM
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 15 2005,14:47)]The reason most ham don't use the VHF/UHF spectrum is because, it requires them to know how to assemble a beam, set the swr's, get a rotator and either a tower or put up a sturdy enough mast on their chimney to support a mast and rotator. Some hams don't know how to set swr's and work propagation. It's easier for them to hang a wore between two trees and let the antenna tuner in the rig tune the radio. Plus if they have to use VHF/UHthe have to work for their contacts. Where as, with HF you turn it on and it's like CB land, dozens of people trying to talk to each other.
Very intelligent indeed. #Funny, I can build a beam for HF or VHF OR UHF it is NOT that hard. #Setting up an antenna so the "swr" (not swr's) is correct, well that is not too hard either. #No tower or mast on HF? #Just how the heck do you think HF beams are supported or large dipoles and their varients for that matter? #Oh yes, hams on HF don't know how to assemble towers or masts, yeah, whatever. #Since when does an antenna tuner in a rig tune a radio? #I always thought that it worked on a matching principle between the rig and the antenna so that the radio "sees" a good match. #Must be a new tuner if it tunes my radio for me. #And last but not least, only hams on VHF/UHF "work for their contacts"? #If you say so, however, I would wager bet that QRP portable using a simple random wire on HF will give a similar challenge if you try. #If one wants to there are plenty of challenges on HF where you "earn the contact". #
Why is it some people want HF handed to them in one thread and in another thread hold such contempt for HF?
KC0OFZ
ai4ep
02-16-2005, 02:05 AM
WIK...the ONLY reason I used the ARRL repeater directory as a reference was the fact that ( look at your own copy and see for yourself ) how many pages there are dedicated to just 2 meter repeaters. If ( as an uneducated guess ) there are 25 folks that normally use any repeater on any band, then look how FEW there are above 448.000.
That is all I meant by using the ARRL repeater directory as a reference...plus the fact that most of us have a copy ( may be a few years old , but a copy none the less ) in our shack .
Still the fact remains that EVERY licensed amateur radio operator CAN LEGALLY use all the bands ABOVE 448.000 Mhz, yet so few DO IT. ( myself included ).
AI4EP
VHF to Light is very popular. As WIK said, check out "The World Above 50 Mhz" in QST. There is not much hanging out on these bands. It's more of a sked type environment. You make the contact on 2m or whatever, then "run" the bands until you cannot hear them. A very low noise floor with good preamps is very helpful. Here are some links.
N.E.W.S. (http://www.newsvhf.com/)
PackRats (http://members.ij.net/packrats/)
G3PHO microwave (http://www.g3pho.org.uk/)
Dave
ai4ep
02-16-2005, 02:57 AM
interesting information
kg4kww
02-16-2005, 03:26 AM
Quote[/b] ] WB2WIK--Connectors, transmission lines and antennas are far more critical
How right you are. That's why most HF types will not fool with UHF/VHF gear. It requires, skill to set it up and skill to to make the ssb contacts. With HF, like CB, turn it on and tons-o-people talking. Wow, no work required to make a contact. UHF/VHF ssb, turn it on, listen, scan, hear a faint signal, get the beam closer and closer to signal lock on, then when the time is right,XMIT.
Later dudes, Condi is on the red line.
VHF SSB DX coming in.
af2cw
02-16-2005, 09:13 AM
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 15 2005,22:26)]Quote[/b] ] WB2WIK--Connectors, transmission lines and antennas are far more critical
How right you are. That's why most HF types will not fool with UHF/VHF gear. It requires, skill to set it up and skill to to make the ssb contacts. With HF, like CB, turn it on and tons-o-people talking. Wow, no work required to make a contact. UHF/VHF ssb, turn it on, listen, scan, hear a faint signal, get the beam closer and closer to signal lock on, then when the time is right,XMIT.
Later dudes, Condi is on the red line.
VHF SSB DX coming in.
And the last time you worked HF was when? What frequencies
were you using? We know what mode you used, if you
were on HF.
Again you show your ignorance when it comes to operating
HF. #Of course you really don't have much, if any, experience
in operating HF since you mostly do it during field day with
someone there to watch you. #
If you do hear a pile up, it is probably for a rare one. #You
know what those are right Greg? #I don't mean Maine, or Idaho
or California either. It takes skill to make the contact when
there is a pile up on HF, along with a good set up. Some do it
with 1kW, some with 100W and some with QRP. #Some with
a quad, a yagi or a simple random wire, and some with CW,
RTTY etc.
Ahh but you don't have those experiences yet do you? #Many
of the people that operate HF have also operated VHF/UHF,
and I'm sure many still do. I guess when/if you ever are able
to work HF you'll continue to operate strictly VHF since that
is where the challenge is. So I guess you really don't want
HF privileges any more do you?
Say hello to "Condi" for us all ok? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kg4kww
02-16-2005, 12:18 PM
Rich, you are Trolling!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 16 2005,00:18)]Rich, you are Trolling!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kww, two quick questions. Why is it you can cut down HFers but if they say anything about VHF users it is trolling? You keep telling us how ignorant we are but yet we had to take more test to get where we are. Some of us "GASP" even had to learn 20 wpm cw.
Do you feel superior telling us you are so much smarter than we are? I may prefer HF but I can design and build anything for radio needed. That is any frequency. I have worked from DC to daylight so am I stupid because I don't want to work with VHF/UHF. By the way I do use them I just don't prefer them. There is no challenge to designing antennas for those frequencies.
I am glad you enjoy it and hope that is where you stay.
kg4kww
02-16-2005, 03:51 PM
4AH, you HF types think you are better than VHF types who are NCT's because you passed CW. Well you are not. CW is only and old outdated mode of communications that shouldn't be required for HF Phone access. Also, most of the HF people I know with the exception of 2 folks in the club, use dipoles for HF. Why, because they don't know how to properly set the SWR for a HF beam and they say they just don't have the yard space to accomadate a HF beam. and it's easier to let the antenna tuner on the radio tune the antenna for them and hang a wire between 2 trees at 30 feet. That's why a lot of them will not use dipoles, loops, or beams for UHF/VHF ssb work, because it requires the antenna being tuned by the operator prior to use. It's easier to get a vertical, put it up on a mast and say that all UHF/VHF is good for is repater cur-chunking. Which is wrong, I made my first 2 meter ssb contacts on a 2 meter dublet that I built my self. It worked very well, in fact I made contacs into parts of NC, DC, MD and even DEL. I wanted more gain and a chance to get some even further UHF/VHF ssb DX, so, then I went to a home brew (key word here) 5 element beam. It worked great, but I wanted more gain so, I bought a ten ele VHF beam and a 7 ele UHF beam and that worked great. I made it as far north as toronto Canada on 2 m ssb using 100 watts. I have also worked Maine on 440 ssb using 75 watts, But, when I talked to one of the bigs guns and found out about the contacts he was making, I went from a gabel mount and a TV rotator and a cushcraf 10 ele VHF beam at 45 feet and a Cushcraft 7 ele UHF beam at 50 feet, to a Rohan 56 foot tower, CDE 3 Rotator, 17 ele m2-2m5wl vhf beam at 62 feet, m2-44018 18 ele uhf beam at 68 feet to improve my chances of getting more dx. The new system has just gone into service and I'm hearing propagation beacons not heard before, like W3CCX in FM29 on 144.283. I'm looking forward to seeing how much of a diff the new system is going to make over the old beams.
Also back in 73 I aquired my first radio license, it was a third class radio phone with a ele 9 broadcast endorsement. I now have a GROL. I may not have passed CW to make me a HF person or a member of the so called elite, but, I'm just as much a ham as any HF person is. I'm tired of the HF types putting down people because they have not passed CW. You know that you are afraid that if more people don't pass code, it will go the way of the doedoe and cw will not be rquired for HF access. I will be happy to take and pass the written for Gen or Extra, but it's my choice not to take CW, and I shouldn't be put down for it nor do I have to justify it, to anyone.
I hope your questions are answered.
Later, I have a client in need of my services.
73
kww I have nothing against no-coders. My wife and two of my sons are no code Techs. That is their choice.
You do not know anything about RF or ANtennas if you think you can just through a wire up and not worry about the vswr. Yes I use a tuner. No it is not in my radio and it will not tune an antenna unless the antenna was designed right in the first place.
Big deal I have a GROL too. Doesn't make me special. Problem I have is people whining about having to learn 5 wpm to get phone privilages on HF. It takes a little work to learn code and if you want the privilages you should have to work a little for them.
I don't think you or anyone else is less of a ham than I am. I just wish you would quit bitching about our knowing code. We were willing to do the work and I am proud to have passed the twenty wpm test. If I was getting mu ticket today I would study and pass the 5 wpm to get my extra. If you don't want to upgrade that is fine. Just don't put us down for doing it.
Maybe evreyone doesn't talk to you at the club because of your attitude. Most hams can set vswr on any antenna. Theory is the same no matter what frequency. Also it is not not that difficult to use a tape measure. I learned how before I became a ham. It doesn't make you special because you think an HFer is dumb and doesn't know about antennas and propagation. Just the way you talk about making contacts on HF shows you have no real experience. I suggest if you don't know what you are talking about don't talk about it. Enjoy your VHF/UHF and we will enjoy our privilages. We choose HF not because we have to, we want to. We also could work VHF/UHF but not all of us do. I have equipment that can do ssb on HF/VHF and UHF and the best thing is I can if I want to. Can you?
WB2WIK
02-16-2005, 05:04 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Oh, wow, nice nap. Upon waking, I find that AI4EP's original post didn't have many direct replies at all.
My reply about the Repeater Directory being a poor source of information is something I very much believe, and stand by. I'll tell you how bad a source it really is:
When the FCC was petitioned to allocate part of the 135cm amateur band for a new mobile radio service which UPS (United Parcel Service) wanted to use several years ago, the FCC actually did use the Repeater Directory to help determine how much use the 135cm band (which was then 220-225 MHz) had. "Not much" was the result, because not many 220 MHz repeaters were listed.
We lost the lower two MHz of the band as a result of this. Nobody at the FCC ever polled the amateur population to see who had major funds invested in weak signal work between 220 and 220.5 MHz -- which was a lot of people, including myself. I had probably $10K or so tied up in my 220 MHz weak signal station, which included a 1500W amplifier (8877) and four stacked yagis on a 60' tower, fed with 7/8" hardline. I was routinely chit-chatting with other hams on SSB and CW from Newfoundland to North Carolina, and inland to Indiana, Kentucky and Tennessee, all the time, using 220.1 MHz SSB. So were many others, including all the guys I was chatting with!
Then, whoops! We lost the lower 2 MHz. The weak signal population on the band never truly recovered, because we had lost what was the entire weak signal segment of the band.
All because there weren't many repeaters on the band, per the directory.
That's why I warn this is a really poor resource to determine "activity." There's a LOT of activity, it's just not on FM.
WB2WIK/6
n5tjd
02-16-2005, 05:12 PM
It seems KWW attacked HF operators first. A VHF beam is hard to make and adjust? It is fairly easy. What is challenging is building an HF beam, and worse having a tower and rotator capable of turning it, not to mention getting that bad boy in place.
On HF, we don't just throw up a wire and break out the tuner, though that is a technique. I don't own a singal "tuner." All my antennas are homemade and adjusted by me. I have verticals and wire dipoles. With antennas over 120ft long, you definitly can run into issues on getting them up to a height that they will preform decently.
Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Feb. 16 2005,05:04)]That's why I warn this is a really poor resource to determine "activity." #There's a LOT of activity, it's just not on FM.
WB2WIK/6
WIK, I agree with you 100%. A lot of activity here in North Georgia on the VHF/UHF bands is not on the repeaters or listed in the directory.
A good way to find out what is happening in your area , on any band, is to find someone with similar intersests and talk to them Every year there is a group from our club that enters the contests for VHF/UHF ssb and CW.
One of my friends designed and uses his own 900 MHz spread spectrum system. It is neat to play with.
Sometimes around here the only way you would know there are any repeaters is to hear them ID.
Quote[/b] (KD5WZB @ Feb. 16 2005,05:12)]What is challenging is building an HF beam, and worse having a tower and rotator capable of turning it, not to mention getting that bad boy in place.
What really sucks is laying in bed and hearing a guy line go "sproing" during a wind storm. Doesn't help your mast,antenna or rotator. That is why I don't currently have a HF beam up. Of course the VHF beam that was under didn't survive either.
One of the things I love about Amateur Radio is the many options. #Not everyone has to do the same thing, or at the same time. #Some are in it for the stamp collecting on QSL cards. #I try to enjoy as much of it as possible, however building brings me the most pleasure. #I have built a number of projects from 400 Mhz to 15 GHZ, frankly it is hard to find someone new to talk to. #I run into the same people, but then the same could be said for 40 meters in the daytime.
I am not sure that any UHF antenna is more difficult than some of my monobander HF. #Four elements on 40 m or six elements on 20 meters is a rather formidable project. #With UHF, I can build it in a weekend and carry 22 elements in one hand while climbing the tower. #It is all fun and my fun may not be yours. #Ready made rigs and antennas help fill the bands, because fewer hams are willing or able to build to get on a band, so lets encourage more building.
73,
Terry, K7FE
K5USS
02-16-2005, 06:12 PM
KWW,
I have posted these numbers before, read them and then tell us if your opinion is still valid.
During the January VHF/UHF contest I took all of my contacts and looked up the license class. #Then I entered all of the license classes into Excel and did a pie chart. #Below are the results of the license classes that I contacted. #This is not scientific, and does not represent the nation as a whole, but I'll bet it is close.
Extra 61%
Gen. 13%
Tech. 13%
Advanced 10%
Club 3%
Looks like your assumption of the HFers not knowing how to set the SWR, and have the willingness to get on VHF/UHF is a bit off...
If you are as serious about VHF/UHF as you profess to be, you will need to use CW to squeeze in some of the states and grids before it is all said and done. #Most any serious weak signal operator will tell you that is an important tool to have in your arsenal.
Get off of the internet, turn on the CD player, grab the oscillator and in no time at all you will learn something you think is impossible. #I did!
Comments?
Charlie
K5USS
Quote[/b] (K5USS @ Feb. 16 2005,06:12)]Get off of the internet, turn on the CD player, grab the oscillator and in no time at all you will learn something you think is impossible. #I did!
Well said Charlie. I once thought I would never get 5 WPM then I decided 13 wpm was too tough. After that 20 seemed impossibe. But I did it. If I can anyone can.
ai4ep
02-16-2005, 06:22 PM
wik...I knew ( and stated ) that the ARRL repeater Directory was a lousy ( bad ) reference, and we both know it. However you refuse to mention that part, and instead attempt to chastise me something extremely trivial.
But it does prove one point --- that you are willing to jump on some one for the trivialist of things, which does not make YOU look all that good to the casual reader.
Your turn.
KG4YUV
02-16-2005, 09:05 PM
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 15 2005,23:26)]It requires skill to set it up and skill to make the contacts.
Sounds awfully familiar to me... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Anybody??
KG4YUV
02-16-2005, 09:09 PM
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 16 2005,11:51)]4AH, you HF types think you are better than VHF types who are NCT's because you passed CW. Well you are not. CW is only and old outdated mode of communications that shouldn't be required for HF Phone access. Also, most of the HF people I know with the exception of 2 folks in the club, use dipoles for HF. Why, because they don't know how to properly set the SWR for a HF beam and they say they just don't have the yard space to accomadate a HF beam. and it's easier to let the antenna tuner on the radio tune the antenna for them and hang a wire between 2 trees at 30 feet. That's why a lot of them will not use dipoles, loops, or beams for UHF/VHF ssb work, because it requires the antenna being tuned by the operator prior to use. It's easier to get a vertical, put it up on a mast and say that all UHF/VHF is good for is repater cur-chunking. Which is wrong, I made my first 2 meter ssb contacts on a 2 meter dublet that I built my self. It worked very well, in fact I made contacs into parts of NC, DC, MD and even DEL. I wanted more gain and a chance to get some even further UHF/VHF ssb DX, so, then I went to a home brew (key word here) 5 element beam. It worked great, but I wanted more gain so, I bought a ten ele VHF beam and a 7 ele UHF beam and that worked great. I made it as far north as toronto Canada on 2 m ssb using 100 watts. I have also worked Maine on 440 ssb using 75 watts, But, when I talked to one of the bigs guns and found out about the contacts he was making, I went from a gabel mount and a TV rotator and a cushcraf 10 ele VHF beam at 45 feet and a Cushcraft 7 ele UHF beam at 50 feet, to a Rohan 56 foot tower, CDE 3 Rotator, 17 ele m2-2m5wl vhf beam at 62 feet, m2-44018 18 ele uhf beam at 68 feet to improve my chances of getting more dx. The new system has just gone into service and I'm hearing propagation beacons not heard before, like W3CCX in FM29 on 144.283. I'm looking forward to seeing how much of a diff the new system is going to make over the old beams.
Also back in 73 I aquired my first radio license, it was a third class radio phone with a ele 9 broadcast endorsement. I now have a GROL. I may not have passed CW to make me a HF person or a member of the so called elite, but, I'm just as much a ham as any HF person is. I'm tired of the HF types putting down people because they have not passed CW. You know that you are afraid that if more people don't pass code, it will go the way of the doedoe and cw will not be rquired for HF access. I will be happy to take and pass the written for Gen or Extra, but it's my choice not to take CW, and I shouldn't be put down for it nor do I have to justify it, to anyone.
I hope your questions are answered.
Later, I have a client in need of my services.
73
Just out of curiosity--
Here, you are banging HF and its users.
2 or 3 weeks back, there was a post about Canada dropping code and you were about to wet your pants to get on HF.
---Man that's odd... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Quote[/b] ]Well said Charlie. I once thought I would never get 5 WPM then I decided 13 wpm was too tough. After that 20 seemed impossibe. But I did it. If I can anyone can.
Sounded like me when I first thought about learning the code. I even went a step further and said I would never use it after learning it......I was SO wrong when said that! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
On the original topic:
I think it's a very good question! From my experience, UHF is not widely used in my area(atleast not in 96-97 when I was on 70cm). In most cases, I think cost isn't worth the reward. Local FM work can be achieved on 2 meters, so I see no real reason to spend the extra money to do that on 70cm when 2 meter gear is more commonly used. I would consider using bands above 70cm if another satellite like AO-40 was operational.
Anyways, things may have changed here, but weak signal activity was very low when I was active on 70cm. I'll still give it another shot when I can get the equipment!
KWW: Keep making the same comment about how setting up VHF/UHF takes more "skill", because it provides me with a good laugh....
WB2WIK
02-16-2005, 09:16 PM
AI4EP, are you paranoid or just not understanding what I've posted?
I haven't chastised you in any way. Your original post, which was a good one, simply asked why it seems there's little activity above 448 MHz, and it clearly stated that you based that conclusion on the ARRL Repeater Directory.
Rather than chastise you, I simply spoke facts: That your conclusion is exactly correct, if you base it on the Repeater Directory -- but, unfortunately, that's a poor source of information....and unfortunately, the FCC based a very important conclusion on the same source!
Unfortunately, in the case of the FCC decision to delete the 2 MHz of the 135cm band where all the weak signal activity was, this was a fairly fatal blow.
You also mentioned that you were among the guilty, not using the bands above 448 MHz -- and of course, you're also in the majority! I only attempted to point out that it's unfortunate if people conclude there isn't much activity "up there" based on the Repeater Directory, because that source doesn't list any of the weak signal activity going on, which represents the vast majority of users of the spectrum above 448 MHz.
Cheer up, nobody's chastising you.
WB2WIK/6
ai4ep
02-16-2005, 09:41 PM
wik...I did not really think ( based on your words, and the STYLE ) that you were belittling ME as an individual, just my choice of sources of reference ( arrl repeater directory ). What I was trying to use as a reference was a commonly used book that was nationwide and not on the internet ONLY.
SO if I offended you, I -- DO -- apologize from the bottom of the heart that some say does not exist.
Now, if we can just get more folks ( including myself ) to use at least some of the frequencies above 448.000 Mhz, we just might be able to use them before the INDUSTRY / COMMERCIAL world grabs it from us.
...oh, and watch how kww squirms out of his mess - if he can !!
AI4EP
I don't have the equipment.. if I did, I might use it..
KC0KBH
02-17-2005, 12:32 AM
OWO-
Pick up some commercial gear at a hamfest or off ebay. If it is Standard, I can help you.
W5MEJ
02-17-2005, 02:46 AM
I don't use the UHF (and above) frequencies these days, but as many others have mentioned here, they are not being neglected by amateurs. #I have always been fascinated by the microwave work being done, but I haven't quite managed to convince myself to expend the time, money and effort that is required there.
KWW, I did a lot of VHF weak signal work for about the first five years that I was licensed. #I found it very enjoyable, and keep telling myself that I am going to get back into it one day. #My 2m beams are out in my storage shed instead of in the air right now, but I have been thinking about putting them back up. #You really shouldn't limit yourself, though, by having such a bad attitude about HF. #Even though the challenge of working a rare one is the same, no matter what band...it is pretty satisfying when the station that you pulled out of the noise and worked is halfway around the world instead of halfway across the country. #I applaud the fact that you are working 2m SSB instead of just working the repeaters or FM simplex, but you really should think about expanding your horizons!
Your attitude really bothers me for some reason. #Then you throw in this statement:
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 16 2005,09:51)]Also back in 73 I aquired my first radio license, it was a third class radio phone with a ele 9 broadcast endorsement. I now have a GROL.
While I respect the technical knowledge that goes with the GROL, #as others have said it has no bearing on your status as an amateur radio operator.
With your vast knowledge, you must know that the FCC ULS database has information on all license classes in all services.
Did you get your GROL under a pseudonym?
73
Chuck
Quote[/b] (KC0KBH @ Feb. 17 2005,00:32)]OWO-
Pick up some commercial gear at a hamfest or off ebay. If it is Standard, I can help you.
One of these days I will pick something up... I keep looking at Motorola stuff.. I know a guy who programs them, and gives good rates to hams..
Quote[/b] (W5MEJ @ Feb. 16 2005,14:46)]Did you get your GROL under a pseudonym?
I never thought I would be one to defend KWW, but only on this one thing. He does have a GROL, I checked the FCC commercial database and found it.
I agree that having a GROL doesn't have anything to do with being a ham. Just one more test you passed. Memorize the answers and it is easy. It is just like ham test all the questions and answers are there to study.
I have administered the commercial test to some people that even though they passed I wouldn't ask them to change a light bulb for me.
Unless you want to repair certified radios, why get GROL? Unless you want something else to show off. Though is KWW took the time to learn the stuff to get his GROL (and since he did) I would think he could take the time to get hsi general and extra class ham tickets..
Quote[/b] (KD5OWO @ Feb. 17 2005,01:46)]Unless you want to repair certified radios, why get GROL? #
If you work in the electronics field it helps. Most companies like either an FCC or NABER certification. Even though it is no longer required except for aviation and marine radios there are a lot of companies that won't hire you without one or the other.
Also in the industry you tend to get paid more with the GROL or NABER certs. I interviewed for a job running a lab in an engineering group. The head engineer asked me one question before he hired me. He asked what I knew about RF. I told him I had my GROL and my Extra ticket. Afterwards he told me the Extra was what he was impressed with. The GROL helped but not as much as my Extra.
K9STH
02-17-2005, 06:28 PM
The commercial license tests have been "dumbed down" just like the amateur radio tests in the fact that all of the questions and all of the answers (as well as all of the wrong answers that are included) are now published.
In the late 1950s and well into the 1960s it was just like the amateur examinations. That is fill in the blank, draw schematics, calculate the value of the component, and so on. There were some pretty thick "study guides" that helped you study but you had to know the material.
There were some "license mills" that were generally a 12 week long course that "guaranteed" that you would pass the license examination. If you didn't pass then they would just let you sit in on the next class and so on until you did pass. Those classes were pretty expensive and most of the graduates were about as clueless as some of those who just memorize the amateur radio tests these days and forget everything the day after they take their test.
Although you do not have to now hold a commercial operator's license to work on land mobile equipment and even in most broadcast applications, international agreements do require them to work on either aviation or marine communications equipment. Also, the FCC can require a commercial operator's license to make repairs on equipment if certain technical specifications were noted in a violation notice.
Glen, K9STH
I don't plan on working on any other gear other then amateur radio stuff, and I don't plan on taking a carreer in electronics.
KC0OFZ
02-17-2005, 08:02 PM
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 16 2005,08:51)]4AH, you HF types think you are better than VHF types who are NCT's because you passed CW. Well you are not. CW is only and old outdated mode of communications that shouldn't be required for HF Phone access. Also, most of the HF people I know with the exception of 2 folks in the club, use dipoles for HF. Why, because they don't know how to properly set the SWR for a HF beam and they say they just don't have the yard space to accomadate a HF beam. and it's easier to let the antenna tuner on the radio tune the antenna for them and hang a wire between 2 trees at 30 feet. That's why a lot of them will not use dipoles, loops, or beams for UHF/VHF ssb work, because it requires the antenna being tuned by the operator prior to use. It's easier to get a vertical, put it up on a mast and say that all UHF/VHF is good for is repater cur-chunking. Which is wrong, I made my first 2 meter ssb contacts on a 2 meter dublet that I built my self. It worked very well, in fact I made contacs into parts of NC, DC, MD and even DEL. I wanted more gain and a chance to get some even further UHF/VHF ssb DX, so, then I went to a home brew (key word here) 5 element beam. It worked great, but I wanted more gain so, I bought a ten ele VHF beam and a 7 ele UHF beam and that worked great. I made it as far north as toronto Canada on 2 m ssb using 100 watts. I have also worked Maine on 440 ssb using 75 watts, But, when I talked to one of the bigs guns and found out about the contacts he was making, I went from a gabel mount and a TV rotator and a cushcraf 10 ele VHF beam at 45 feet and a Cushcraft 7 ele UHF beam at 50 feet, to a Rohan 56 foot tower, CDE 3 Rotator, 17 ele m2-2m5wl vhf beam at 62 feet, m2-44018 18 ele uhf beam at 68 feet to improve my chances of getting more dx. The new system has just gone into service and I'm hearing propagation beacons not heard before, like W3CCX in FM29 on 144.283. I'm looking forward to seeing how much of a diff the new system is going to make over the old beams.
Also back in 73 I aquired my first radio license, it was a third class radio phone with a ele 9 broadcast endorsement. I now have a GROL. I may not have passed CW to make me a HF person or a member of the so called elite, but, I'm just as much a ham as any HF person is. I'm tired of the HF types putting down people because they have not passed CW. You know that you are afraid that if more people don't pass code, it will go the way of the doedoe and cw will not be rquired for HF access. I will be happy to take and pass the written for Gen or Extra, but it's my choice not to take CW, and I shouldn't be put down for it nor do I have to justify it, to anyone.
I hope your questions are answered.
Later, I have a client in need of my services.
73
Here we go again, attack all HF operators while wanting the privilage to operate HF anyway.
Some HF hams do not use beams, SO WHAT? #You stated yourself that one reason is "lack of room. #Do you realize how large some of those beams are? Also, if they spend alot of time operating 40 meters to 160 meters, a beam antenna is in many cases impractical due to physical size. #There are a few beams for 40 meteres, only a couple "HOMEBREW" (HF hams do know the word) on 80 meters ( all though those traps that are the size of 5 gallon pails are cool) and none that I have seen on 160 meters, why? SIZE. #Tuning a beam is NOT hard however building a beam for 40 meters is but many do try it. #There is a whole world above 50Mhz, some of it very challenging and fun. #However, don't think VHF/UHF ops are the only one who can build and "tune" a beam or know how to earn a contact.
By the way, why is this a CW issue again? It wasn't until you started it with you put downs about HF operators that it bacame one on this thread
KC0OFZ
kg4kww
02-17-2005, 09:16 PM
yawn