For CW Fans: What's up with this? [Archive]

WF7I

12-24-2004, 03:25 PM

I've heard it too. I think it's mainly because they were spinning the dial, caught the tail end of your callsign, and then heard nothing, so were wondering if it was a CQ or you were in QSO.

I usually do the same thing you do. I will give a very brief CQ and give my call. Most times the "?" station will come back and we'll have a QSO. Other times they vanish (maybe hoping you were a rare DX, and seeing that you weren't, continued to spin the knob).

I've also heard guys send a long series of "?" right on top of a QSO, usually followed by a very long CQ session, which is obviously used only for interference purposes. My only guess to that one is that one station did not reply to THEM, so now they'll get even.

N8CPA

12-24-2004, 03:33 PM

I think maybe they're trying to zero beat. So when I hear it, I simply resend the call sign, a little bit slower to give them time to copy.

W5HTW

12-24-2004, 04:35 PM

I've heard this all of my ham career. (48 years) Like others, if someone sends it after I have called CQ or ended a QSO, or even just sent a VVV test, I'll repeat my call sign immediately, so the other guy can identify me. It's like he's saying "Huh" or "Who was that masked man?" So I let him know. I'd say most of the time it results in a conversation. Once in a while, though, the guy was actually directing the ? to someone I didn't hear, and he continues with a QSO with someone else.

Nothing wrong with it. Before recent years, it was, though, considered an unidentified transmission, for transmissions had to start with call signs, and if this did not result in a QSO, no call sign was given. In fact, except for the part about starting with a call sign, that still holds true.

So you have just ended a QSO. The guy tunes across your signal and all he gets is SK and 'dit dit.' He knows you are signing but he doesn't know who you are, or if you will be back. So he sends ? You can answer or not, your choice.

However, to each his own in the form of procedures, as long as they remain within the rules. We are quite rapidly moving away from any sort of standardized procedure anyway. If someone doesn't like it they can simply move or not bother to answer, and there's nothing wrong with that, either. In fact, if I am winding down a QSO and I have to go eat dinner or leave or something, and someone sends me a "?" I'm not going to answer. If I'm open to a quick - or long - chat, I probably will just send my call sign and then wait to see if he returns. If not, he probably didn't want me anyway.

73
Ed

ae4fa

12-24-2004, 05:40 PM

It's quite common, especially on VHF, where propagation may be quite unstable and short exchanges are best. #Very effective when you only get a partial call.

But aside from that, I've missed some potential QSOs with guys whose calls I only got a piece of because I didn't send '?' - and the guy apparently gave up. #Who knows, he might have put out four or five cycles of CQ before I found his signal . . .

QRZ isn't technically correct, since the fella was calling CQ, not me . . .

Ah, well . . . to each his own.

WS2L

12-24-2004, 05:59 PM

Charlie,

I have run into this many times over the past 26 years, I guess it depends on the particular circumstances at the time. It is possible that the other station caught your callsing (or part of) while tuning around and thought you were calling CQ. IMO I think if they continue to send question marks more than once they are impatient and downright rude. If I here someone and I'm not sure if they are in a QSO I will sit and listen for a few minutes to see what there status is. If more people would do the same it wouldn't be one of the aggravating little problems.

Dave, WS2L

nz3m

12-24-2004, 07:44 PM

Some people will send a question mark after a QSO has ended. They do this because they are not sure which station is using the frequency.

..--.. What did you say?
Who's freq?
Want another QSO?

Dave

WB2RJR

12-24-2004, 11:21 PM

Poor operating practice. Just ignore it. Treat it the same way as the "dit dit" some people send. If you operate properly, it forces others to do the same. Never respond to this stuff or things will get worse than they are already. Plenty of good CW ops out there, work them, and let the inovators/"free" thinkers/extra lites/ VE examined hams etc. take a hike.

They can send "?" till they drop. Personally, I need a callsign, or part of it, to answer someone. Plus, it's not legal.

Lots of info around on the proper way to operate, IF you are able to read.

73, Marty WB2RJR

WA2ZDY

12-25-2004, 03:49 AM

I agree with HTW. I've done it, and I've answered others who've done it. And it isn't illegal now with the "ID within the first ten minutes" rule. Though of course I'm sure plenty of folks don't ID, but then again, how many of us have heard a station call "QRL?" and upon finding the frequency to in fact be busy, go on and ID anyway after that?

Rude? I dunno. I kinda find it nice to know that someone wanted to work me when I was done on a frequency, but not knowing my call or if I was closing down still wanted to chance that I'd be there and stay and chat.

If it's poor operating practice as RJR suggests (and I don't feel it is) then at least half the guys on CW are poor operators.

Given the circumstances Ed and I have put forth, I think it's an entirely appropriate tool. If it bothers you that someone just sent a "?" you can always "QRA?" and have your question answered.

This is 30 years of CW speaking.

ky5u

12-25-2004, 04:33 AM

Appreciate the feedback and guidence. It had always seemed to me these were folks who were too much in a hurry to wait a second or two. Glad to hear the other side of the story.

One more question on the dit dit...I understand this came from the commerical ops. I see radio text going back to the 30's with the EE (dit dit) in it. Why do some folks find this objectionable?

WA2ZDY

12-25-2004, 05:19 AM

Objectionable? #No, but juvenile I guess. #Dit dit is the end of "dit didi dit dit. Dit dit."

Recognise it?

"Shave and a haircut, two bits." #

Doesn't do a thing for me at all, but I wouldn't call it ojectionable. #Maybe not juvenile, just kinda hokey.

nz3m

12-25-2004, 06:16 AM

The dit dit is after a "thank you" at the end of a qso. Just moments ago on 3.510, "73 73 AB3BK de YZ1EW _ .._ . .". I didn't "dit dit" back, but sometimes I do. I don't understand why it's a big deal. It's just two people talking to each other.

It's not just us "extra lites" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
It's worldwide http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Dave

post edit: I just noticed the "thank you dit dit" in my signature. I guess I am the extra lite who is ruining CW.

k9cn

12-25-2004, 06:22 AM

I don't know. Never had a problem with a "dit #dit" at the very end of a contact. #In a way, I always thought it was kind of nice -- sort of an indication to the other guy that you stuck around for his 73 and final comments. #

When I was last to sign, a couple dits from the other guy let me know he heard me out and wasn't in too big a hurry to crank the knob. #I always hoped a couple dits from me when he was last to go would tell him the same. #Just seems kind of courteous to me. (Never really associated it with the "shave and a haircut" but don't actually know its origins.)

nz3m

12-25-2004, 06:28 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2RJR @ Dec. 23 2004,17:21)]Plenty of good CW ops out there, work them, and let the inovators/"free" thinkers/extra lites/ VE examined hams etc. take a hike.

73, Marty WB2RJR
The more I read this, the more pissed off I get.

I am all of the above, and I love CW. I hope I never meet you on the air.

I would say more, but I will certainly be banned from QRZ.

_ .._ . .
Dave

W8FAX

12-25-2004, 01:27 PM

Usually, but not always, I will send a dit dit at the end, but only after signing. If the other op has the last round, I still send 73, sign my call, then SK or SK CL as the case may be. If he dits, I dit, or often will just dit myself and he answers. This at least lets him know that I didn't tune out during his last Xmssn. I do not however, respond to, or send, "?". If I am at the end of a CQ, QSO or whatever, and someone wants a repeat or my call, he will send his own, or wait until I CQ again. I do not believe "?" is listed as a "Q" signal. Even back in the dark ages when a freq was often checked with a "shave and a haircut", the answer would be dit dit de UR CALL. I agree with Marty up to a point. Good operating is good operating..............not limited to anyone however.

K3STX

12-25-2004, 02:40 PM

I also send the "dit dit", and if nothing else it lets the guy you are talking to know that you actually heard HIS goodbye to YOU. Otherwise the "73, CUL, and GB" could go on for years. It simply lets the guy know you heard him and everything is A-OK. It is also sent at the end of a valid QSO in the CW Sprints so the guy knows all is cool before you QSY and he calls CQ.

The "shave and a haircut" part I can do without, but I bet there are many who don't even know where the "dit dit" comes from. So what?

paul

W8MW

12-25-2004, 02:43 PM

Ah, yes, that famous question mark appearing out of nowhere, usually at the end of a QSO. #I'd agree with others interpretations and, if it originates from someone looking for a contact, might also be decoded as:

whatsup,dude?

going my way?

can you come out and play?

There have been times when someone's question mark led to a QSO. #And other times when I've tried to reply in some way and nothing else was heard. #In those cases, I feel sorta used because he more or less received a signal report with minimal investment. #Maybe in that case the definition becomes:

I just dropped in to see what condition my condition is in.

My fond memories of the novice cw bands of the 50's and 60's include the fact that those bands were #populated and sometimes saturated with enthusiastic operators. #The shave and a haircut two bits thing was all over the place and although not good amateur practice, one operator I know very well was guilty of making that the entirety of many a QSO with many an equally shameful op.

CW contacts on 80 tended to become rather lengthy and a desire to wrap it up usually required a few more rounds, since parting is such sweet sorrow. #You could sign clear SK several times and still not get outta there. #For some reason dit dit became the absolute, final, it really is over now, designator. #Still works.

73 Mike

dit dit

ky5u

12-26-2004, 04:48 AM

For awhile after seeing a post from Glen here on the dit dit as being immature, I stopped doing it first. If the other OP does it I answer. I thought "shave and a haircut" was from the WWII era yet the text of some early telegraphy traffic in the shipping arena show the "EE" at the end of transmissions back in the 30s.

I have been using AR at the end of my message text before call signs, and SK in its place on final transmission. I use "K" after calling CQ and once in a QSO I use KN if I don't want anyone else. Otherwise I use K. I have stayed away from any abbreviations except the basics like "ES" "HR", "PWR", "BK" etc. I spell out "going" should" and other words. Nobody has complained. But again, I want to know the proper thing to do so that is why I asked here.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your opinion on this. Like many, I want to be a good CW OP. You hear different things from different folks on using abbreviations or not using them, the dit dit, use of SK before signing or after. I hear folks these days ending a CQ with AR. Guess it really doesn't matter (it has not been a bone of contention in any CW QSO I have ahd yet), but would be nice if there was a standard to follow. I bet there would be a big fight if anyone ever tried to standardize. Maybe not.

NF6E

12-26-2004, 12:48 PM

From my experience, a "?" heard right after you finish a CQ is usually someone who happened upon you at the tail end of your CQ but didn't catch your full call sign.

When this happens to me, I simply send my call twice, then send "K" to give the guy an opening. #If he takes it, off we go. #If not, I send CQ again and the guy will either still be there or wander off to something else. #No worries either way.

I also think sometimes a "?" is sent to you just so the other guy can test to see if you can hear him. #Sort of like kerchunking a repeater.

As for the "dit-dit" salutation, I consider that a CW form of a tip-of-the-hat or a friendly wave goodbye. #I hear it done at the end of both domestic and DX QSO's. #I have no problem with it at all...other than the last character of my call sign being nothing more than a "dit". #Sometimes folks get confused. #But throwing an "SK" in there prior to the dits usually averts confusion.

Jason NF6E SK . #.

n0nwo

12-27-2004, 02:53 AM

I think if you would, instead of ignoring the question mark, just send out another SHORT cq, you would find out they missed your call and would like to work you. Happens to me all the time.

This ain't rocket sience... geeeeeze.....

Minton

n0nwo

12-27-2004, 03:01 AM

Quote[/b] ]Poor operating practice. Just ignore it. Treat it the same way as the "dit dit" some people send. If you operate properly, it forces others to do the same. Never respond to this stuff or things will get worse than they are already. Plenty of good CW ops out there, work them, and let the inovators/"free" thinkers/extra lites/ VE examined hams etc. take a hike.

They can send "?" till they drop. Personally, I need a callsign, or part of it, to answer someone. Plus, it's not legal.

Lots of info around on the proper way to operate, IF you are able to read.

73, Marty WB2RJR

Your kind of attitude we ALL can do without. Hope I have not yet worked you, or ever will.

Minton

w3sy

12-27-2004, 03:46 AM

OK, I'll just pile on here, even though I'll be echoing some of what has already been said. FYI - I've used CW for over 34 years, and am definitely "old school" by today's standards.

I have always believed that whatever makes CW quicker, more efficient, and more conversational is good for the mode. My opinions -- On the first point: Blasting out a quick question mark is an acceptable way to say "Who dat?" or "Say wut?" It's quick and dirty, and most veteran ops immediately grasp its meaning. If it were ME, I'd probably send "? DE W3SY" because it's a bit more courteous to say, "Hey, who's that? I'm W3SY" than just "Hey, who's that?"

"Dit dit" at the conclusion of a QSO is a nice shorthand way of saying "see ya." I completely agree with whoever said that "dit dit" is better than hearing dead silence after the (I love this term) final-final.

Yes, yes.... There was a time when the end of the QSO was followed by an endless exchange of "shave and a haircut" back and forth, multiple times. But I always thought of that as playful sillyness -- not stupidity or poor operating.

Comment for AG4YO, who said:

I have been using AR at the end of my message text before call signs, and SK in its place on final transmission. I use "K" after calling CQ and once in a QSO I use KN if I don't want anyone else. Otherwise I use K.

Music to my ears. That's good operating. The advantage of following the protocol is best realized when operating under heavy QRM or weak signals. If the receiving operator is missing some or most of the transmission, he can figure out what's happening by hearing the right prosigns in the right places. This all is less critical when the signals are strong and easy to copy, but good habits should always be used, because they become second nature. Also, when newer operators hear this, they (might) imitate it. I know I learned good operating by imitating good operators.

I have stayed away from any abbreviations except the basics like "ES" "HR", "PWR", "BK" etc. I spell out "going" should" and other words. Nobody has complained. But again, I want to know the proper thing to do so that is why I asked here.

Such a good question! If you listen to two experienced operators, you will hear them abbreviate the crap out of everything. GG = going. SHUD = should. HV = have. WID = with. TT = that. And so on into the night. Again, it makes CW quicker and more conversational. That should be the goal. But beware -- If you work a less experienced operator, they may not understand all the abbreviations you use. You need to develop a sense for how experienced the other op is by how THEY abbreviate. I will usually abbreviate to the extent the other op does, plus a tiny bit more. Reason is that I want them to understand me, or course, and I want them to get a taste for some new abbreviations that they will hopefully pick up on for future use. There are definitely what I would consider beginner, intermediate, and advanced abbreviations!

So.... DO abbreviate. Sometimes you can be creative in your abbreviations and still be understood. Try it! Sometimes, it's as simple as dropping vowels. And forget about commas and periods. Some people hate CW because they think it's tedious. Make it conversational, quick, and slick, and it's a LOT more fun.

Fo' shizzle....

Out.

ky5u

12-27-2004, 05:17 AM

Quote[/b] ]This ain't rocket sience... geeeeeze..... Minton

Hey, I am not too proud to ask for the opinion of others. Lots of experience here to draw from if you are willing to suffer a few goofy comments like the one above. LOL. Thanks to all for your help!

ae4fa

12-27-2004, 10:24 AM

Nice post from Steve. Now THERE is a First Class Operator!

n0nwo

12-27-2004, 07:35 PM

I have been re-thinking my first two posts on this thread.
My apologies to both AG4YO and especially WB2RJR. I can make a lot of excuses about last night being an off night, but they are only excuses.

Having said that, I still defend the sending of dididahdahdit as a quick efficient way to inquire of the CQ just barely heard, and also the dit dit at the end of a qso as a friendly handshake or tip of the hat before finally parting.

The thing that sometimes frustrates me about hams that have been hamming 30 or 40 years, is that so many feel that things should always be done the way they learned, and there is no room for change.

This philosophy seldom runs through one's entire life, but, where this hobby is concerned...

I humbly suggest that if one would look honestly at their life, we seldom continue to live our lives exactly as we did 30 years ago. The number of hams on this forum is case in point. Our cars and trucks are different, entertainment is different, the way we eat is different, our vocabulary is different, political views may be different... and the list goes on.

Why should ham radio, which is just a hobby, always remain stagnant?

I guess my point I would like to try to suggest to my more senior fellow hams, is-- different is not always good or bad. Different is sometimes just different.

Some hams who paved the way for people like me, see the question mark and the dit dit as rude, immature or just plain wrong. I see it as a quick efficient way to relay a point. Rather than rude, I feel this newer form of CW shorthand (of which we have many) as just as valid and polite.

I learned radio procedure on the novice sub bands. Un fortunately, that also meant I worked a lot of other new hams who knew as little or less as I did. My suggestion to those who are discouraged or down right mad about how some newer hams work the HF bands, it for you to work them. LOTS of them. and help spread what you know and what works for you. Dust off the straight key and work that reeeeal sloooow coooode and elmer the newer hams.

If you don't... expect even more procedural changes to accrue. But once again please keep in mind that different operating styles are not necessarily bad, it is just different. So please do not get down on those who's style is different... WORK 'EM and make a new friend, and appreciate the fact that they are using CW.

Minton

WF7I

12-27-2004, 09:11 PM

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Dec. 26 2004,20:46)]
Quote[/b] ]Comment for AG4YO, who said:

I have been using AR at the end of my message text before call signs, and SK in its place on final transmission. I use "K" after calling CQ and once in a QSO I use KN if I don't want anyone else. Otherwise I use K.

Music to my ears. That's good operating.

Same here, I use the same procedures. I either read it in my Novice manual or learned it from the OT's of the day, and it has stuck with me.

Quote[/b] ]There are definitely what I would consider beginner, intermediate, and advanced abbreviations!

That's for sure. The 35 WPM (and up) guys abbreviate everything, even their abbreviations! It's almost like another code after awhile. I use all the standard ones but don't go too far out on a limb with it, unless the other guy is going hog wild.

w3sy

12-28-2004, 07:48 AM

From N0NWO:

I learned radio procedure on the novice sub bands. Un fortunately, that also meant I worked a lot of other new hams who knew as little or less as I did. My suggestion to those who are discouraged or down right mad about how some newer hams work the HF bands, it for you to work them. LOTS of them. and help spread what you know and what works for you. Dust off the straight key and work that reeeeal sloooow coooode and elmer the newer hams.

Years and years ago, there was a magazine article called "Your Novice Accent." It was a lighthearted look at poor operating technique in the Novice bands brought about by inexperienced ops copying each other's style. And yes, it became an "accent," just as people from a certain region tend to eventually sound about the same. The unfortunate Novices were "ghetto-ized" amongst themselves, and soon started to sound the same, and pick up the same bad habits.

Yes, experienced ops should visit the Novice bands and spread that good Ol' Time Religion. I used to do it all the time when there were still Novice bands with Novices in 'em. I owe what *I* learned to the OF's who had the time and patience to give me a QSO when I was still just learning. I tried to pay them back by doing the same for the next generation of Johnny Novices. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Also, there was the old Novice Roundup contest. The good operators were very easy to spot. I remember guys like WP4DHD and WP4DIW. They didn't just send fast -- they were also slick and efficient. The Novice Roundup was always a chance to ratchet up the code speed and operating ability. Such a shame that it's gone now.

Also from N0NWO:

The thing that sometimes frustrates me about hams that have been hamming 30 or 40 years, is that so many feel that things should always be done the way they learned, and there is no room for change.

What kinda changes did ya have in mind? EVERYTHING evolves, so changes DO sneak in over time. I will say that a lot of what we consider "good operating" -- and this applies to CW and phone -- is procedures that have been time tested and WORK. As I've said, standard "protocol" is good, especially when conditions are bad.

I'm not all that thrilled with some of the changes I've seen over my hamming years. I kinda remember when "QSL" suddenly meant "yes" or "I agree." The newbies of the late 1970's gave us that one (see "Novice Accent" above) and it stuck.

Some changes are GOOD. Old OLD time ops used to "swing" their CW (hard to explain) to give it "personality." They had great disdain for the mechanical precision of the electronic keyer. Me, I like precise, rhythmically consistent code. (The musician in me steps forward!)

As far as changes go, as long as they make CW more quick, efficient, and conversational, bring 'em on! Anything else... well, no thanks.

For WF7I -- It's interesting how the level of abbreviation is silently "negotiated" between experienced ops. It's like, "Here, get a whiff of THIS abbreviation," and the other op picks it up and uses it too, then tosses up one of his own. Once each op becomes hip to the fact that the other op can abbreviate, and make up abbreviations on the fly, you can go 10 minutes without hearing a vowel! (Okay, so I exaggerate a little...) But I have been in 30+ wpm QSO's where the unspoken subtext was "abbreviate all you want -- I'll still understand you." It's a ton of fun when you can do that. It becomes very (as I keep saying) conversational.

As we used to say on the Novice bands: di-dah-di-dah-dit daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah dit daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

N8CPA

12-28-2004, 10:57 AM

A "swing" I use on straight key is an elongated final dah on the procedural K. I started doing that because an occasional tic messed up my spacing. Some ops hearing it thought I was appending another letter to my call. The long dash distinguishes it as a prosign, rather than a letter. But that's the only swing I use.

Yes, I know "swing" refers to the distinctive keying pattern of a bug, which I don't use. I've heard a few that are indecipherable, though they sounded like the aural equivalent of filigree. Although penmanship can be clean and pretty, some of it is better decoration than communication. So I prefer to read print. And that preference is reflected in reading Code. I like dots and dashes of uniform shape. But then, I'm someone who types my personal checks--mostly becasue I can't read my own handwriting. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

w3sy

12-28-2004, 06:13 PM

Well, you can swing with a bug or with a straight key. Involves mixing up the length of dashes and the the speed of the dots -- sometimes in the middle of a single character.

Present day ops would call it a "bad fist." OLD OLD timers call it "personality." Heh, whatever....

Want to know about a change in CW procedure that was met with resistance at one time? Giving your name! True! In the Dark Ages of hamming, operators might have been known by their initials. Generally, hams just called each other OM (old man), OB (old boy) or OT (old top). And not just on the first transmission. All the time. At first, giving your name was considered bad form for some reason.

So sure, there's room for change. But don't throw away good operating for the sake of making a change.

N8CPA

12-28-2004, 09:28 PM

My wife is an NCT. I can just imagine how she'd react if I told her I sometimes swing. Can I claim living about 100 miles from Lake Erie as an excuse? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

K0RGR

12-28-2004, 09:49 PM

Another use for the "naked question mark" is in place of a 'QRL?' - this used to be a pretty common practice - just throw a question mark out there a few times to see if the frequency is occupied.

As for 'dit dit', the 'shave and a haircut' routine was regarded as 'juvenile' at best back in the 60's. Now, those of us who were juveniles back then are AARP members today, so 'dit dit' is not immaturity. A bad habit, perhaps, but not immaturity. Those who key their mikes on FM to make the 'dit dit' sound at the end of a QSO, particularly on Echolink, go too far.

KI4FZU

12-28-2004, 11:48 PM

Quote[/b] (AB3BK @ Dec. 24 2004,23:28)]Quote[/b] (WB2RJR @ Dec. 23 2004,17:21)]Plenty of good CW ops out there, work them, and let the inovators/"free" thinkers/extra lites/ VE examined hams etc. take a hike.

73, Marty WB2RJR
The more I read this, the more pissed off I get. #

I am all of the above, and I love CW. #I hope I never meet you on the air.

I would say more, but I will certainly be banned from QRZ.

_ .._ . .
Dave
Dave,

I agree wholeheartedly with your response, and hope to run into you on the air one day. I hope like <censored> I never run into Marty WB2RJR on the air, because I'd likely end up having my licence revoked. Operators like Marty WB2RJR give Amateur radio a black eye.

What is it with internet forums dredging up the bottom of the barrel anyways? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K7JBQ

12-29-2004, 12:34 AM

Gentlemen,

Kindly cool it with the personal attacks. This is getting close to the line.

73,
Bill, K7JBQ
One of the moderators at QRZ.com

ky5u

12-29-2004, 04:58 PM

Thanks for the reminder, Bill.

I have another question: You send a CQ at 30WPM and someone answers at 15WPM. Should you slow down to 15WPM or assume the person answering can copy 30?

I had it happen to me last night answering a CQ from a faster Op. As it happens, I can copy code much faster than I can send it so we had a wonderful QSO, him at 30WPM and me at 20 WPM. On the flip side, I always slow down to match the the other OP.

WA2ZDY

12-29-2004, 06:17 PM

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Dec. 28 2004,17:49)]Those who key their mikes on FM to make the 'dit dit' sound at the end of a QSO, particularly on Echolink, go too far.
This unfortunately is a practice I picked up flying. The quick double click of the PTT is heard more often on the aviation band than not. When ATC hands you off to the next controller, that's usually how one says "thanks and good day."

The commercial/airline fellows all do it, so there it was good enough for me. Doesn't make it right on the ham bands, but there is a basis for it.

n0nwo

12-29-2004, 06:23 PM

AG4YO

Very good question. My take on whether to slow down is this, I tend to slow down to somthing closer to their speed but slightly faster. Then I ask If I am still sending too fast. Sometimes I find they can copy faster then they can send, and other times I find they want me to qrs even more.

My feeling is, whatever it takes to make the other guy comfortable enough to get whatever I am sending.

Minton

w3sy

12-30-2004, 12:44 AM

Old FUDDY DUDDY that I am, I actually have no problem with the double mic click at the end of a 2 meter QSO. It's just an acknowledgement that the last transmission was heard, and a simple "see ya." The problem with coming back with your voice to say "okay, thanks again, see ya" is it invites the old final-final-final-final endless loop that we hams, by our talkative nature, fall into. And as I mentioned in the CW context, it's friendlier than dead silence after the last transmission.

As for CW speed, if someone can at least decipher my call at 30 wpm, but wants to go slower, that's ok. What's that line in the Amateur's Code about "slow and patient sending...?" It's not a contest.

WB2RJR

12-30-2004, 01:33 PM

Voice operations:

Who's the DX?

Hey!, who's the dx?

HEY!, ANYBODY HEAR ME? WHO'S THE DX?

CW operations equivalent:

dididahdahdidit

The NeverEnding story:
"When you decide to end the contact, END it." (emphasis by the ARRL) from the ARRL Handbook p.648 1977 edition.

"SK indicates the end of your communications with a particular station, and that you are expecting no further communications from him." from p.297 Understanding Amateur Radio, ARRL by George Grammer 1963.(see if you ditdit people can figure this out)

"It's just an acknowledgement that the last transmission was heard, and a simple "see ya." W3SY Steve, your written reference for this interpretation and it being proper operating procedure is....? Perhaps you are using your 34 years of expierence, no problem, I'll use my 42 years, which trumps yours. You are wrong.

Another question. If this is "an acknowledgement that the last transmission was heard", do you need an acknowledgement that the acknowlegement was heard, if so where does this end in your Class A op opinion?

I've seen plenty of messed up DX pileups, because someone send SK or KN and does not really mean it. I've also seen a whole pileup start and some moron continuing to add to an ended QSO, which the DX op then acknowledges creating a mess since everyone has lost track of what's occuring. I've also seen pileups where to make it "more conversational" the DX isn't giving both calls on exchanges resulting in people not knowing if they really worked him or not and morons coming on asking "Who's the DX?" constantly until "Mr. Helper" also shows up on freq to tell them.

Hey, don't know what's happening on a frequency. Maybe you ought to listen until you do.

Failing that, just send:
dididahdahdidit

Some of us need to know who the 21 Century Class A ops are.

Marty WB2RJR

WA2ZDY

12-30-2004, 03:47 PM

Quote[/b] (WB2RJR @ Dec. 30 2004,09:33)]Perhaps you are using your 34 years of expierence, no problem, I'll use my 42 years, which trumps yours. You are wrong.
. . .

Some of us need to know who the 21 Century Class A ops are.
Wow, I only have 30 years, so I must be REALLY way off. # I stand humbled, but not corrected.

And no, I was never a class A op. #Never had an Advanced either. #And heck, for that matter, I was never invited to join the FOC either. #Maybe I should just go get on channel 19, huh?

I'm starting to feel like a kid, a lid, AND a space cadet here. #Riley, come get my license now before I hurt myself with it.

K7JBQ

12-30-2004, 04:58 PM

RJR,

A bit earlier in this thread, I asked politely for the personal attacks to cease. I had in mind those addressed to you.

That said, it seems to me that you are going out of your way to encourage such attacks. I am asking you to consider the impact of your words prior to posting them.

Remarks belittling those who passed their Extra under the current rules, those who were licensed under the VE system, those who work a pileup differently than you do, etc. etc. are not helpful to a civilised debate.

Further, 42 years in service do not give you special status. Frankly, many of us here, myself included, have more than that. This is amateur radio, not a union.

You may be a first class operator, but kindly remember the Amateur's Code. It applies here as well as on the air.

73,
Bill, K7JBQ
One of the QRZ.com moderators

w8znx

12-30-2004, 07:02 PM

Hello to all

when receive
question mark
no call letters
if feeling obtuse' I send QRA

sometimes
sharp op on other end will send
de radio podunk hollow w1***

while here note
some ops
seem to love to slow things down
with extra un needed
punctuation and words

my favorite "my name here is"

yours truly
Mac W8ZNX

K7JBQ

12-30-2004, 07:10 PM

followed by:

QTH here is...
Rig here is...
Ant here is...
WX here is...

Meanwhile, the OP HERE is drifting off to sleep.

73,
Bill

w8znx

12-30-2004, 10:03 PM

also
dont you just love ops
that must repeat
back to you
every thing you just sent

and why
oh please why
must
some ops send your and their call letters
at the beginning and end of every blinking
transmission

how often have you sent a
BK
get no reply from other station
who is siting their waiting for his call your call
and KN

yea and whats with all the
KN's
if somebody is reading the mail
and has something to add
I want them to join in
cw contacts do not need to be just between
two stations

its still great fun

thank you
Mac

gw4rcm

12-30-2004, 11:29 PM

Most East Europeans send A ?. mark, as a QRL,? "are you busy," or is this frequency in use.
If They hear you calling back with your sign, they will assume that the freqency is in use, and they will QSY.
They also send VA, instead of KN to mean they have no more traffic.
RCM

w3sy

12-30-2004, 11:43 PM

WB2RJR corrects me with:

"It's just an acknowledgement that the last transmission was heard, and a simple "see ya." W3SY Steve, your written reference for this interpretation and it being proper operating procedure is....? Perhaps you are using your 34 years of expierence, no problem, I'll use my 42 years, which trumps yours. You are wrong.

Your written reference is impressive, and I'm sure you could have provided that information without being such a dick.

Haw!

(wotta tool....)

K7JBQ

12-30-2004, 11:56 PM

sy,

Sigh.
Steve, please see my previous note to RGR on the subject, and (this goes for everybody) cease and desist from throwing gas on the fire.

73,
Bill, K7JBQ
One of the QRZ.com moderators

w3sy

12-30-2004, 11:57 PM

MY bad, Bill. I thought his name was Richard.

Hee....

Seriously, though, I see where this big load is coming from, and I have only the highest regard for the publications he's quoting chapter and verse. But when it comes to "dit dit" at the end of a QSO, quite frankly it doesn't bother me. It's NOT a procedure you'll find in any ARRL publication, but it's a friendly gesture and adds minimal QRM to the airwaves. And I've heard VERY fine operators (even by the great WB2RJR's standards) use it. So what's the beef?

I, for one, sometimes "dit dit" at the end of a QSO, and sometimes not. But now that I know it cheeses this guy off, I think I'll make it a regular habit. HAW! And if ya don't like it... SPIN THE DIAL, BABY!

Good day to YOU sir. I *said* good day!

Out.

W5MEJ

12-31-2004, 01:51 AM

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Dec. 30 2004,16:57)]But when it comes to "dit dit" at the end of a QSO, quite frankly it doesn't bother me. It's NOT a procedure you'll find in any ARRL publication, but it's a friendly gesture and adds minimal QRM to the airwaves. And I've heard VERY fine operators (even by the great WB2RJR's standards) use it. So what's the beef?
I'll have to agree with you on this one, Steve.

I think you and Richard...oops, sorry that wasn't his name...you and WB2RJR are talking apples and oranges here. #He talks about DX and pileups, and you are talking about good old ragchew contacts on CW. #Like he said:

Quote[/b] ]I've seen plenty of messed up DX pileups, because someone send SK or KN and does not really mean it. I've also seen a whole pileup start and some moron continuing to add to an ended QSO, which the DX op then acknowledges creating a mess since everyone has lost track of what's occuring. I've also seen pileups where to make it "more conversational" the DX isn't giving both calls on exchanges resulting in people not knowing if they really worked him or not and morons coming on asking "Who's the DX?" constantly until "Mr. Helper" also shows up on freq to tell them.

If I had just sent a rare one a "tu 5nn w5mej", I wouldn't dream of throwing in anything else. #In my normal operating, though, when I've spent an hour or so talking about anything and everything, signed off, and the other station sends a very eloquent final...I'll send them a "dit dit" to let them know that I heard it!

Chuck

dit dit

w3sy

12-31-2004, 02:52 AM

Well Chuck, the next time I hear chaos on the band caused by someone sending a friendly "dit dit" after a nice ragchew, I'll be sure to whip out the nearest ARRL publication from the Kennedy administration and tell ya why you're such a froggin' imbecile for making a mockery of League Sanctioned Operating Procedure. Why you..... I'll teach you to deviate even a nanometer from written-in-stone proclamations from the Mother Church in Newington! haw....

Pay no nevermind to the excessive hair-splitting on the part of our esteemed colleague. It's good therapy for him, and doesn't hurt anyone.

Well, good day, then.

dit dit

W5MEJ

12-31-2004, 03:07 AM

dit dit

n2nh

12-31-2004, 03:11 AM

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Dec. 26 2004,22:46)]OK, I'll just pile on here, even though I'll be echoing some of what has already been said. FYI - I've used CW for over 34 years, and am definitely "old school" by today's standards.

I just want to thank the people who posted here. I'm very interested in CW but living in NYC makes it hard to operate.
Even though I'm pretty good at CW, I haven't had too many contacts due to this. Reading the thread here has taught me
a lot about operating and I just wanted to thank those who posted. Personally, I feel that abbreviations are great, but it
does take some experience to get the feel for them.

w3sy

12-31-2004, 03:35 AM

Hiya John in the Big Apple.....

I guess you are dealing with some antenna restrictions. Maybe try a QRP CW rig with an indoor, or outdoor stealth, antenna? If you can get it to load up on 40 meters, you can really be in business.

You'll notice that a lot of the abbreviations are made simply by dropping vowels. I've seen lists of suggested abbreviations around too. Maybe one of us can dig it up and post it here.

Number One rule of operating is to be considerate and remember that the frequencies are shared. All the other "skill stuff" comes with practice. There isn't a radio operator on the planet who didn't fumble around a bit when first learning.

See ya,
Steve W3SY

dit dit

ky5u

12-31-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote[/b] ]Hello to all

when receive
question mark
no call letters
if feeling obtuse' I send QRA

sometimes
sharp op on other end will send
de radio podunk hollow w1***

Wonder how many CW fans are e.e.cummings fans too?

N8CPA

12-31-2004, 07:53 PM

I've always liked Langston Hughes better. Snoop, Puff, & co. seem to think rap is a modern rhythmic phenomenon.

w5alt

12-31-2004, 09:50 PM

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Dec. 30 2004,23:35)]... There isn't a radio operator on the planet who didn't fumble around a bit when first learning.
Steve, I beg to differ, OM. I didn't fumble around a bit, as you said.

I fumbled around a lot!

But 73 anyway and a dit-dit to you.

Walt, W5ALT

WA2ZDY

12-31-2004, 11:52 PM

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 31 2004,17:50)]I fumbled around a lot!

Took the words right off my keyboard and out of my mouth Walt.

I really remember my fumbling too. #Looking back on it, it was all fun and understandable anyway, but I still felt then like "D-oh, why did I just do/say/send THAT?"

Hey John, exactly what is your housing situation there? #You living in a high rise, brownstone, "normal" apt house . . . ? #I'm sure there are enough of us who know how to get RF out of the worst situation. #I for one grew up in the projects in north Jersey and I managed to make TONS of contacts in the 6 years between getting my ticket and moving out of Mom's place.

Happy New Year y'all.

w3sy

01-01-2005, 07:27 AM

DIT DIT!

DIT DI-DAH-DIT DIT.....?

w3sy

01-02-2005, 03:05 AM

Bumpety Bump!

n2nh

01-02-2005, 03:56 AM

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Dec. 31 2004,18:52)][quote=w5alt,Dec. 31 2004,17:50]

Hey John, exactly what is your housing situation there? You living in a high rise, brownstone, "normal" apt house . . . ? I'm sure there are enough of us who know how to get RF out of the worst situation. I for one grew up in the projects in north Jersey and I managed to make TONS of contacts in the 6 years between getting my ticket and moving out of Mom's place.

Happy New Year y'all.

The situation here is a 6 story detached brick bldg. on top of a hill within line of sight to the ocean. I've tried an indoor loop, a slinky-tenna and a dipole all with a Vectronics tuner. Now I've got the dipole hooked up to an LDG autotuner (From Santa) and am now able to hit the 10 meter repeater about 5 miles away. I'm going to try 30 or 40 tommorrow nite. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The roof is off-limits here and I have a landlord who is outright hostile to anything that can transmit. Also a lot of nosy neighbors including one that likes to cam-cord me from her window - which rules out an outdoor antenna. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I'm thinking of hooking up to the old power line wiring. It has been disconnected since they upgraded the wiring (checked it out with a DMM).

Funny, one of my neighbors asked me if I would be able to help if a hurricane that was forecasted might hit us. I said that I'd try but probably not be of much use, since I'm not allowed to set up my station to be effective to help in that kind of case.

Happy New Year
and
happy DXing in '05

73
John/N2NH

K3STX

01-02-2005, 04:08 AM

John,

Go to W5ALT's website. He has worked the world with a vertical antenna in his apartment disguised behind a houseplant!!! On 40 meters you will scare up tons of QSOs with 50 watts, and I doubt you would cause any RFI with THAT.

paul

ab2kt

01-02-2005, 07:08 AM

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Dec. 30 2004,23:11)]...I'm very interested in CW but living in NYC makes it hard to operate...
Sounds like a good excuse to get out and do some portable operating. Great fun. Just don't try Central Park -- be assured it's the RF-noisiest green acreage you'll ever have operated from.

Some guys have pretty good luck on 6 and 2 SSB and CW from NYC apartments, too, with temporary antennas.

During the my ARES spell in NYC after 9/11 I met a few ops from Manhattan and the boroughs who never get on the air from home. One of them was a pretty well-known musician (an old friend, never knew he was a ham) who only ever gets to play radio when he's away at summer music festivals.

ve7ngr

01-02-2005, 07:55 AM

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Dec. 28 2004,00:48)]Years and years ago, there was a magazine article called "Your Novice Accent." It was a lighthearted look at poor operating technique in the Novice bands brought about by inexperienced ops copying each other's style.
And those who haven't seen it can read it here (http://www.qsl.net/kc7eqw/novice_accent.htm) (ok, those who have seen it can read it there too http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif).

w3sy

01-02-2005, 03:34 PM

Well done, Brian VE7NGR.... Thanks for that link!

ae4fa

01-02-2005, 04:57 PM

Indeed, thank you! With a couple of editorial notes, this would make a fine article for the local club newsletter.

WA2ZDY

01-02-2005, 06:24 PM

That's a great article. I haven't seen it in many years, but it's still valid. Well, except for the part about tuning the band after calling CQ. Those days ended when FCC allowed Novices to have VFOs.

I wish folks would read that one. Of course so much of it applies to CW operating, it probably isn't real practical anymore. Of course much of it is just general practice and courtesy, but . . .

A true oldie that article is. Kilocycles! I love it!!!!

w3sy

01-02-2005, 07:32 PM

Will there be a "Your NCT Accent" article? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif It could talk about using "QSL" to mean "yes" or "I agree." It could also cover the use of the pseudo-acronym "HAM" or the use of CB lingo on the 2 meter REE-peater channels.

Yes, "tuning the band" is a relic from the crystal control days when you could call CQ and somene 20 kc's away might be calling you.

ky5u

01-03-2005, 12:12 AM

Yes, I had seen this article before and follow its suggestions closely as my messages here have indicated. Interesting how many of the "don'ts" are found in these posts too and accepted as good practice. I know times change, but most of the suggestions made in the article (and by many of you) are logical and useful. Thanks to you all!

wa6zbq

01-03-2005, 04:55 AM

I agree with Chris WA2ZDY,It is a appropriate tool 73's RICK WA6ZBQ

ae4fa

01-03-2005, 10:22 AM

On page 2, where it talks about tuning after a CQ, I added this:
Quote[/b] ][Editorial Note: When this article was written, rare was the ham who had a VFO. All Novice and most other transmitters used crystals to set frequency. Thus, one had to tune around to hear someone responding to a CQ, because the other guy was probably on another frequency. Now, of course, it is expected that a response to a CQ will be on the same frequency.]
And, on page 5 where it talks about the procedural signal VA, I added this:
Quote[/b] ][Editorial Note: This procedural signal is now referred to as SK. It is the same character pattern.]
Are there any other places y'all see that might need an editorial note of explanation to bring it up to date?

N8CPA

01-03-2005, 04:37 PM

I identified a typo, #CE instead of CQ. #That sticks out like a sore Dit digit.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

w3sy

01-06-2005, 04:48 PM

Oh what in tarnation do YOU, know, CPA! You haven't been licensed 42 years!

Haw!!!!

Out....

N8CPA

01-06-2005, 05:22 PM

No, but I've been reading English for longer than that. Plus, I have a remarkable penchant
for spottingk others' splling erros faster than my own. HAW bakatcha!

And before anyone elx says it, Gesundheit! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

w3sy

01-07-2005, 04:03 AM

Well, the Amateur Radio Bible (King Hiram version), Book IV, Chapter 8, paragraph 16, page xcviii says you are WRONG!

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG WRONG!

Bwahahahahahaha!!

w8znx

01-07-2005, 11:08 AM

Re tuning around
blank it
some of us old folks
still play with hb rock bound rigs

nothing nothing
like empty band
80 cw late night
some op calling cq
over and over agn

cw 500 cycle filter cranked in

just try calling
big 3 kc away

no go

empty band
late night
open up the receiver
tune a bit
there might be some body calling you

Macdit dit

al7n

01-07-2005, 06:50 PM

Yes, there sure might be......Nothing says you have to be right on the same frequency to work another station....If not, best listen to make sure your transmitting frequency is not in use first.....then after you call, crank that RIT back and forth, see if there isn't someone just off to one side or the other trying to answer you....

Might be one of us guys that still use a rock to control the transmitter frequency trying......

AL7N http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

N8CPA

01-07-2005, 07:30 PM

That's why I feel a bit guilty when I realize I've had my Timewave filter in line. I have used it comfortably as narrow as 80Hz. Smaller than that, the ringing is unbearable. But if signals are anywhere outside of its selected passband, they will NOT get heard.

w3sy

01-09-2005, 08:03 AM

Why in MY day, dad gummit, 42 years ago, by crackee, we didn't need no sissy DSP. We used 10 kc bandwidth and separated out the signals by ear -- AND WE *LIKED* IT!!

Lookie here, whippersnapper, in The Gospel According to the ARRL, January 1963 version, Volume 12, page 23: "If you need a crystal filter or DSP to copy code, you're WRONG! WRONG WRONG WRONG!"

WRONG!!! YOU ARE WRONG!!!

(satire)

N8CPA

01-10-2005, 03:32 PM

Hey! At least it's a DSP to an EAR, not a TNC to a CRT or an LCD. The DSP is better than the BFO on the GCR I started out with. [Oh the fun of TLA's!]

w3sy

01-10-2005, 05:00 PM

Well, just as long as you don't go "dit dit" at the end. If you do, the ghost of George Grammer (W1DF, I think) will come to your house and stick a pin in your coax.

(That's in Volume XCMLVIII, page 27, paragraph 3, right Marty? HAW!)

N8CPA

01-10-2005, 05:30 PM

You know, some of the stuff you're talking about seems to have sprung up between 1985 and 1991. #When my divorce related A.R. hiatus began in 1985, the only time I heard "dit dit" was if one station sent the shave and a haircut first. #Also, BK still meant "break for text" in traffic handling. #I was a bit startled when I got back on the air in 1991 and heard BK used in ragchews. #It seemed out of place.

As far as "dit dit," mea culpa. #I confess I sometimes use that to confirm the end of a difficult contest exchange, involving several repeats, or if my call is miscopied. #Other than that, I only dit dit back when I get dit-ditted first. #Next time that happens, in fulfillment of the chapter and verse you cite, I'll just QLF with my boogety-boogety-boogety shoe! #

"Who put a B where dahdidah should be?
Who sent two dits when he heard an E-S-E?
Who first sent HI when he meant H-E-E?
Who QRL'd with dittydumdumditty?

Who was that lid?
Does he realize what he did?
With wrong procedures on ham frequencies?"

#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

al7n

01-12-2005, 12:28 PM

CPA...
HaHa....Neat little rhyme...

AL7N http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

w3sy

01-12-2005, 05:25 PM

It's more than a rhyme. It's from a great do-wop song called "Who put the BAWM in the BAWM-DE-BAWM-DE-BAWM."

Good song parody, Old Bean... Well done indeed.

I'd say the dit-dit thing has been around as long as I've been hamming -- since 1970. Maybe WB2RJR can ride in on his High Horse and tell us if it's been around since HE first opened the envelope from Gettysburg. (snicker)

And I've heard BK used that way too. Could be worse! I've also heard people go thru the whole "AR WN3LID DE WN5OAF K" routine while passing very short transmissions back and forth. With break-in CW, and a couple savvy ops, you don't even NEED prosigns to toss it back and forth.

Still nothing -- NOTHING -- grates on my nerves like hearing QSL used instead of "yes" or "I agree."

BK

al7n

01-12-2005, 09:13 PM

The "Dit-dit" thing has been going on a long time..
It was heard plenty on marine HF-CW as well as 500 Kc #and down among the shipboard and coastal types in days gone by as well....

On watch on 500 Kc., every once in a while, on a quiet night, some wag would put out a single "dit"...then someone else would counter with "dit-dit", and this would
start it..."dit"s, "dit-dididit-dit" etc. would bounce around all over the place for while until finally some powerful coastal station would tell them all to shut up.....then it would get quiet again.....for a time.......

And the thing about folks using "Q" codes on voice irritates hell out of me too. #Better to just say it with words, and leave the "Q" codes on CW where they belong.

Y'all no-code types out there....
leave our Q codes alone, Y'Heah?

AL7N

N8CPA

01-12-2005, 09:53 PM

I'd rather hear Q-codes than 10-codes on voice.

BTW, AL7N, as a professional brass pounder, what is the real meaning of QTD? I always thought it meant "What ship, where bound?"
but I recently saw it on a list referring to whether or not someone had been rescued.

DITTYDUMDUMDITTY

al7n

01-12-2005, 11:47 PM

CPA ...

The Q signal "QRD?" #is the signal for "Where are you bound and where are you from?". #

QRA? would be to ask the name of your ship or station.

QUS? would be to ask if survivors have been sighted

QUR? would be to ask if survivors had been rescued

QUM? would be to ask if the emergency traffic (SOS etc.)has concluded. #

Of course the Q signal sent without the interrogation character would be in answer to the interrogative.

QTP would be to indicate entering port

QTO would be to indicate leaving port

QTD is not familiar to me, and not on the list I normally refer to, so I can't help you much with it.

There is a whole crapload of Q signals that pertained to aeronautical operations, but I didn't find QTD in that list either.

Maybe someone else knows?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

AL7N

N8CPA

01-13-2005, 06:38 PM

Thanks. I'll remember that about QRD. Every now and then, I have heard QRA during contests and nets. "QRA [call]"

I can't believe that in a little less than 12 weeks will be the 10th anniversary of NMN's last use of CW and the end of the 500KHz watch. I used NMN transmissions to practice for my 20WPM test. Even after I passed the test, I still enjoyed listening to its forecasts.
There was one op there who was a slow typist by the spacing between his words.

And I have found a website with the flight related Q-signals. Enjoy.

http://www.wemsi.org/qsigs.html

W0LC

01-13-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 24 2004,08:17)]I work about 98% CW and have a question. #Many times I call CQ and when I get finished, someone sends a question mark. #They obviously caught the tail end of the CQ and are impatient to listen for awhile to hear who is calling CQ. Sometimes if I ignore them, the person will send two question marks.

I usually ignore them and send a short CQ sequence. #Many times I will just change frequencies and call CQ again. #Just strikes me as rude and impatient for them not to just listen for a minute. # Figured I'd ask the experienced folks here to help me out on this one. Yep, its a minor thing but don't know why it bugs me.

So, is this question mark thing some sort of thing that I am not aware of?
Actually, I consider it a short hand way of sending QRZ?

Basically the intent was "I heard something, but missed what was sent. Were you calling me? What was it you sent? What is your callsign again please?"

All shorted by the (?) being sent.

Just like sending 100 watts is sometimes sent as 1TT. A lazy guy's way of doing it basically.